Tea Party Patriots welcomed Dr Anna Haynes

George Rebane

This evening Jo Ann and I, along with a neighbor, attended the monthly Nevada County Tea Party Patriots meeting that filled the Easterly Hall of the Nevada County Realtors Association.  We were happy to see Dr Anna Haynes sitting in the throng, listening with great interest to the speakers, and taking notes.  Dr Haynes is not a stranger to these pages (some background here).

Dr Haynes is also a recognized liberal voice in Nevada County who writes the blog Nevada County Focus  and is the creator/operator of Nevada County Voices, a true community internet resource, where even RR is recognized as one such voice (consigned to the rightmost ‘Denialism/Climate contrarians’ column).

What made her attendance noteworthy was that the lady is a dedicated investigator of all things tinged with conservatism.  And in that TPP is proud to be a bit more than tinged because of its unique grounding principles – small government, fiscal responsibility, constitutionalism, and free market capitalism – that derive from our fundamental belief in individual liberty as interpreted by our Founders.

From Dr Haynes’ previous writings and personal encounters one might come away with the distinct impression that she is a collectivist’s collectivist in her socio-political leaning.  So to now see her in attendance at a meeting of local folks who lean the other way is both hopeful and heartening.  Perhaps, her study of our organization’s core principles, grass roots structure, and non-partisan political action has inspired her to give us another look; and who knows, even consider becoming a member?  If so, I will be the first to celebrate her epiphany, and welcome her into our midst.

Comments

[Todd Juvinall]

Hope springs eternal!

[Greg Goodknight]

Ms. Haynes still owes me a dollar for the bet she lost.

Her blog remains as unvisited as ever, with comments few and far between, and her fervor over catastrophic climate change if anything is getting stronger as the evidence mounts against it.

[Russ Steele]

George,

Did Dr Haynes ask any questions? It will be interesting to see what she post on Nevada County Focus. This should be very, very interesting.

[Douglas Keachie]

Does Greg Goodknight even have a blog? Even Todd Juvenall has a blog.

[George Rebane]

Russ, yes she did. Mark Meckler spoke and said something to the effect that 'Green is the new Red' referring to the socialists' backing of the green movement and its effect on the progress of capitalism.

Dr Haynes asked Mark as to when this had become the policy of the tea party movement and whether its statement was in any of the TPP literature. Mark answered that the general understanding of the ideological make up of the greens and their attitude toward free market capitalism has been known for years and shared by most tea party members. And also that he wasn't aware of its inclusion in any TPP literature.

[Russ Steele]

Here is a link to Dr Hayne's views on her questions and Mark's answers at the TPP Meeting.

[Russ Steele]

Oops misplace comma. Should read Haynes'

[Greg Goodknight]

I was going to mention that Keachie's blog is as moribund as Ms. Haynes', but didn't. I'm happy to fix that now. Keachie has to go elsewhere to actually be read and responded to. Same with Haynes.

"Watermelon" is an old name not used often. Green on the outside, red on the inside. Meckler apparently wasn't plowing new ground there.

[Larry Wirth]

Hey Russ, that's no comma, it's an apostrophe ;>)

Wife and I just had a long conversation in re: the recent changes in English punctuation regarding possesives of names ending in "ss." Conservatives are concerned with such wierd things...

[Russ Steele]

Larry,

Your are so right. Brain dead after a long drive. Maybe George can save me with a correction.

[George Rebane]

You got your apostrophe right Russ, and don't worry about anything but driving safely.

[Douglas Keachie]

Rebane ask for closing arguments, and then refused to "accept the data." Did he think I was stupid enough to trust him with a long post?

Check http://farstars/blogspot.com to see final response to Goodknight's campaign against public school teachers in California

I write for the future, not for the present.

[Greg Goodknight]

By the way, if you figure out and fix the typo Keach made on his own blog's link, you'll find he accuses George of censoring the post he apparently tried to make here.

I've noticed the refusal to "accept the data" is always on comments that took a long time to finish. All one has to do is copy the comment, refresh the page, paste and submit. No problem. Typepad (or my browser) sometimes seems finicky, I can't say I haven't resorted to closing the window and opening up a new one when it gets balled up.

I'd say Keachie is either stupid enough, or paranoid enough, or just lacking enough patience to believe he's being censored rather than being again just very confused and flustered.

If you find his latest blog posting, it's in his usual style of making illogical leaps of inference to attribute to me points of view that I've never had or tried to make. Just pure demagoguery, Keachie style.

[Douglas Keachie]

So Greg, you take long time to finish, often? Often enough to notice and deal with the phenomena? Good for you. This was the first time it's ever happened to me, and there are no indicators here understand the problem. You have to do trial and error.

Rather than repost my comment here, I'll give you something else to chew on. Who is the author of the following?

There have been three tectonic power shifts over the last five hundred years, fundamental changes in the distribution of power that have reshaped international life — its politics, economics, and culture. The first was the rise of the Western world, a process that began in the fifteenth century and accelerated dramatically in the late eighteenth century. It produced modernity as we know it: science and technology, commerce and capitalism, the agricultural and industrial revolutions. It also produced the prolonged political dominance of the nations of the West.

The second shift, which took place in the closing years of the nineteenth century, was the rise of the United States. Soon after it industrialized, the United States became the most powerful nation since imperial Rome, and the only one that was stronger than any likely combination of other nations. For most of the last century, the United States has dominated global economics, politics, science, and culture. For the last twenty years, that dominance has been unrivaled, a phenomenon unprecedented in modern history.

We are now living through the third great power shift of the modern era. It could be called "the rise of the rest." Over the past few decades, countries all over the world have been experiencing rates of economic growth that were once unthinkable. While they have had booms and busts, the overall trend has been unambiguously upward. Even the economic rupture of 2008 and 2009 could not halt or reverse this trend; in fact, the recession accelerated it. While many of the world's wealthy, industrialized economies continued to struggle with slow growth, high unemployment, and overwhelming indebtedness through 2010 and beyond, the countries that constitute "the rest" rebounded quickly. India's annual growth rate slowed to 5.7 percent in 2009, but hummed along at a 9.7 percent rate in 2010. China's GDP growth never fell below 9 percent.

This economic success was once most visible in Asia but is no longer confined to it. That is why to call this shift "the rise of Asia" does not describe it accurately. In 2010, 85 countries grew at a rate of 4 percent or more. In 2006 and 2007, that number was 125. That includes more than 30 countries in Africa, two-thirds of the continent.

[Douglas Keachie]

http://farstars.blogspot.com/ Final backslash has never been necessary before.

[Greg Goodknight]

Just like Keachie to change the subject rather than retract his past defamatory statements.

[Douglas Keachie]

Does Greg retract his accusation of "typo?"

"if you figure out and fix the typo Keach made on his own blog's link"

WordPress apparent insists on the final forward slash. I can go directly to my site with no final forward slash.

[Greg Goodknight]

No, Keach, rest assured, there was a typo that had nothing to do with the trailing '/'. Apply those prodigious powers of observation and perhaps the problem will reveal itself.

21 chars to inspect and compare. Might take awhile.

[George Rebane]

DougK, I was told that you posted on your own blog that I "censored" you. That is a lie, and your maintaining that assertion makes you a liar. As I have told you before, I have never interfered with anything that you have posted on RR. (It is also clear that you have no idea how certain blog servers may treat long comments and comments that have long composition intervals.) If you do not retract that lie, you will visibly be no longer welcomed here.

You are welcome to test your intellectual mettle here with RR readers. However, your snarky behavior is best served in the local progressive choirs. There are other blogs that will gladly welcome your unsubstantiated attacks.

[RL Crabb]

George is telling the truth, Keachie. I've had the same problem with long-winded comments. No conspiracy.

[bill tozer]

Ah, the good doctor Haynes has made an appearance and our local Tea Party confab. Wonder if she strutted up to Russ and told him his house is burning. Since I switched from paper to plastic, global warming has abated.

[D. King]

Perhaps, her study of our organization’s core principles, grass roots structure, and non-partisan political action has inspired her to give us another look; and who knows, even consider becoming a member?

It's good to dream!

[Douglas Keachie]

Greg, many sites work just fine with or without the "www" It seems blogspot isn't one of them.

George, I have amended the post at farstars as follows:

My Long and Thoughful Response to Greg Goodknight, that Rebane's Blog Nearly Deleted
Technorati Profilehttp://rpc.technorati.com/rpc/ping

Rebane asked for closing arguments, and then his blog software refused to "accept the data." I have changed the title of this post to be more precise. He apparently did not deliberately censor the post, but if I were running a blog with as many glitches as his, that was widely in use, (this one isn't) I would definitely have the courtesy to have an FAQ, that listed the hidden foxholes, so that people would not stumble into them. Being somewhat distrustful, especially with Greg Goodknight's calls to boot me off the blog, I copied the post before publishing it or even previewing it.

All sentiments represented in these posts are merely statements of my opinions, and may in fact have no basis in reality. Of course, depending on who you are and what your reality is, your milage may vary... Ripcord for parachute, to escape pesky lawyers, hired by foolish physicists.

[George Rebane]

Thank you DougK.

[George Rebane]

Re seeing comments on RR. Just received an email from TypePad on my continuing tech support dialogue with them on how comments are displayed. They recommended my adding some text to the little forward and backward pagination symbols - <<|>> - they put below a comment pages that can hold only 100 comments. These are hard to see and would be more visible if text were added. I have added text so that they now read << Older|Newer >>. Hope that helps and also helps explain why it sometimes looks as if some comments were deleted.

[Douglas Keachie]

Thank-you George. With my confusing physical vision, I had never noticed the marks before, and I did look for an additional comments area.

[bill Tozer]

This calls for a group hug.

[Greg Goodknight]

"Greg, many sites work just fine with or without the "www" It seems blogspot isn't one of them."
No, Keach, you blew it again. It had nothing to do with the prefix or any suffix. Maybe the first version with your typo followed by one of the ones that works will make it easier for you:

http://farstars/blogspot.com
http://farstars.blogspot.com/

Yes, I think your inability to not make things up make you unfit for thoughtful discussion. For example, "[Greg Goodknight] implies that teachers are practically criminals, conspiring to defraud the public of their hard earned tax dollars, for no value received in return."

There is not a shred of logic linking my words and that screed. No criminality, no conspiracy, no fraud and no claim of no value was made or implied in my words. Your post is defamatory, and your snark really is better taken elsewhere.

And your fix, while it takes the defamatory declaration about George out, it's still literally incorrect. "Rebane's Blog Nearly Deleted" absolutely nothing. The problems were with your inattention and the usual TypePad operation known by many. I would ask the readers here: would you want your children or grandchildren in a classroom run by Douglas Keachie?

[D. King]

Douglas,

This is cross posted from NC Media Watch.
See if this helps you to understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg

Here is a good read via another link from Steve Frisch.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/3746575

Guess who got the 50,000,000.00 discount from you and your tax money?

China!

BTW, that was 2007 (before the mess) Why?

Here's a doozy from 2010. (Your tax dollars)

http://www.sustainablebusinessoregon.com/national/2010/11/calpers-allocates-500m-for.html

China again?

So, calpers money is going to China.

Where does calpers money come from???

[Douglas Keachie]

Greg, those of us with limited physical vision find your comments and pattern of comments, an attempt to equate physical handicaps with a lack of intelligence. If you had any other aim, please let us all know.

[Douglas Keachie]

We're paying for excellent schools. Of the $92 billion of the 2010-2011 California state budget expenditures, $36 billion went to K-12 and $12 billion to higher ed. Giving more money to current administrators and current teachers would be as productive as giving beer and car keys to teenaged boys.
Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 21 June 2011 at 02:00 PM

Are these not illegal acts?

Yes, I think your inability to not make things up make you unfit for thoughtful discussion. For example, "[Greg Goodknight] implies that teachers are practically criminals, conspiring to defraud the public of their hard earned tax dollars, for no value received in return."

There is not a shred of logic linking my words and that screed. No criminality, no conspiracy, no fraud and no claim of no value was made or implied in my words. Your post is defamatory, and your snark really is better taken elsewhere.

And your fix, while it takes the defamatory declaration about George out, it's still literally incorrect. "Rebane's Blog Nearly Deleted" absolutely nothing. The problems were with your inattention and the usual TypePad operation known by many. I would ask the readers here: would you want your children or grandchildren in a classroom run by Douglas Keachie?

If I had not saved my work, I rather doubt that a simple ALT left arrow would have returned me to my material. For all practical purposes, the WordPress software would have deleted my post. Not knowing what the time limits are, I am sort of experimenting right now, to see if I can replicate the situation, and thus I will be able to test that notion out. If I can't back up and the data being unacceptable shows up, I'll let you know.

Well fellow readers, I see no one has answered Greg's final and off recurring question yet. So far, if you send your kids to public school, and I am working there, I do so with the full authorization of the state. I'm sure Greg can send all his rants to the State Credentialing Office, and they will be acted on appropriately, and then filed, in an equally appropriate fashion.

[Douglas Keachie]

Well WordPress/TypePad can cope with a 45 minute post without deleting/ rejecting data.

This is for DKing. Can you tell me how rural Indians can afford solar and we can't? Time to nationalize the production of solar panels, just as we did the nuke bomb, the Moon Shot and Liberty ships. BTW, how do you like the Exxon Mobil oil spill in Yellowstone National Park? We're not talking a truck, we're talking a pipeline.

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AP foreign, Sunday July 3 2011

KATY DAIGLE

Associated Press= NADA, India (AP) — Boommi Gowda used to fear the night. Her vision fogged by glaucoma, she could not see by just the dim glow of a kerosene lamp, so she avoided going outside where king cobras slithered freely and tigers carried off neighborhood dogs.

But things have changed at Gowda's home in the remote southern village of Nada. A solar-powered lamp pours white light across the front of the mud-walled hut she shares with her three grown children, a puppy and a newborn calf. Now she can now cook, tend to her livestock and get water from a nearby well at night.

"I can see!" Gowda said, giggling through a 100-watt smile. In her 70 years, this is the first time she has had any kind of electricity.

Across India, thousands of homes are receiving their first light through small companies and aid programs that are bypassing the central electricity grid to deliver solar panels to the rural poor. Those customers could provide the human energy that advocates of solar power have been looking for to fuel a boom in the next decade.

With 40 percent of India's rural households lacking electricity and nearly a third of its 30 million agricultural water pumps running on subsidized diesel, "there is a huge market and a lot of potential," said Santosh Kamath, executive director of consulting firm KPMG in India. "Decentralized solar installations are going to take off in a very big way and will probably be larger than the grid-connected segment."

Next door to the Gowdas, 58-year-old Iramma, who goes by one name, frowned as she watched her neighbors light their home for the first time. At her house, electrical wiring dangles uselessly from the walls.

She said her family would wait for the grid. They've already given hundreds of dollars to an enterprising electrician who wired her house and promised service would come. They shouldn't have to pay even more money for solar panels, she insisted.

But she softened after her 16-year-old son interrupted to complain he was struggling in school because he cannot study at night like his classmates.

"We are very much frustrated," she said. "The children are very anxious. They ask every day, 'Why don't we have power like other people?' So if the grid doesn't come in a month, maybe we will get solar, too." "

Hope you saw the WWI program in which the USA borrowed citizens' telescopes and binoculars for the war effort, and then returned the ones they could at the end of the war. The guy in charge of this operation was....drum roll...FDR. Government programs can work.

[Douglas Keachie]

And Greg, how else would you describe this other than as a "conspiracy?"

"Probably the highest payout for the least ability, and a union to insure things like lack of competence doesn't interfere with a steady job and good retirement benefits."

[Greg Goodknight]

Keach, your problems are deeper than visual. All I started with was a note to others that the typo existed, and you followed with multiple taunts that disputed there was a typo to begin with while making false claims as to the demands of typepad software for recognizing links.

You equate public employee unions with conspiracy? A novel approach, but I doubt it. To be a conspiracy I thought it had to be both illegal and secret, and unless you can show me an instance where a union went along with a district firing an incompetent teacher, my statement stands.

No, using "giving whiskey and car keys to teen-aged boys" as a metaphor for throwing more money at education without fixing the problems first isn't alleging criminality. An incompetent administrator hiring an incompetent teacher who nonetheless meets the legal minimum requirements for someone to babysit a classroom of kids isn't a criminal act, it's just business as usual.

[Douglas Keachie]

So you have no problems with "business as usual" in the field of education, just as I have no problems with "business as usual" in the oil industry? There is no need to hold either accountable?

When will you get to the point where you can see the problem is cultural, and not the fault of individual teachers. At what level was CPM implemented, did unions and teachers provide the initiative, or the universities doing the training of teachers? Why wasn't there a huge falloff in SAT scores, in the year these kids came to take it?

And finally, if you and George and all the other mathematical whiz kids on the block thought this was so important, why didn't you drop what you were doing, get your credentials, and rush in to save the day? Could it just be that money as senior software engineers talks, and that kind of money isn't offered to teachers?

Until you are ready to step up to the plate, and you apparently had your chance and walked away, don't criticize the team that's on the field, unless you have a plan that's better than Red Queen mode. "off with their heads, we'll find someone even further down the educational ladder," like maybe unemployed air traffic controllers? The invisible hand of the market has given you the teachers you have, just like it has given you the income you enjoy. You can't be picky choosy about it.

"You equate public employee unions with conspiracy? A novel approach, but I doubt it. To be a conspiracy I thought it had to be both illegal and secret, and unless you can show me an instance where a union went along with a district firing an incompetent teacher, my statement stands."

Read any of the Tea Potter sites about how secret deals are put in place by union bosses as they hoodwink their coerced members. Teacher administrator matters are protected by privacy laws, and unions routinely let members fall through the floor, because they don't want to spend the bucks to defend them. The boasted $1,000,000 liability policy with the NEA does not apply in any matter that involves a possible connection with a crime. If a student makes accusation of sexual misconduct, regardless of how false, the unions only pay up to $35,000, and then only after the fact, if the teacher gets him/herself off. I watched this happen to a fine teacher of biology at Lowell.

You want to fire incompetent teachers? Then you need to find out if they are incompetent to teach in the average classroom, not in the bottom of the heap classroom, socio-economic-homelife-wise. And Greg, before you fire all the "incompetent teachers," please make sure you've raised enough in taxes and prestige to attract the competent teachers who you seem so certain are hiding behind every bush. Or do you plan on importing them from abroad on HB-1 visas? That worked really well for software engineers, now didn't it?

[Greg Goodknight]

"So you have no problems with "business as usual" in the field of education...?"

What a bizarre conclusion.

[Douglas Keachie]

"union bosses" "tea party patriots" hoodwink teacher gets nearly 500 hits. Change "Tea Party Patriots" to "Tea Party" and how many do you get?

[Douglas Keachie]

""So you have no problems with "business as usual" in the field of education...?"

What a bizarre conclusion."

Well, at least you don't find them breaking any laws, now do you? I note that there are rubber rooms in NYC, where teachers accused of crimes may sit forever, drawing paying. Isn't it odd that the Right assumes they are guilty, and yet there they sit? If they were really guilty, then they'd be brought to trial and sent to prison, no more paychecks!

[Greg Goodknight]

There are no "rubber rooms" for teachers in NYC, Keach.

[Douglas Keachie]

But there are rubber rooms for software engineers in Nevada county.

[Greg Goodknight]

Yet another example where Keachie, when corrected after making a false claim, just lets fly with a bizarre insult.

[Greg Goodknight]

"But there are rubber rooms for software engineers in Nevada county."

George, is this sort of snark appropriate here?

[Douglas Keachie]

The Great Judge and Grand Master of Snarkness himself, speaks.

[Douglas Keachie]

Todd and I are respectable pillars at our respective ends of the political spectrum.

[D. King]

Douglas-

"Can you tell me how rural Indians can afford solar and we can't?"

Yes, we don't need it!

"Time to nationalize the production of solar panels, just as we did the nuke bomb..."

Time to move to school vouchers.

"Associated Press= NADA, India (AP) — Boommi Gowda used to fear the night. Her vision fogged by glaucoma, she could not see by just the dim glow of a kerosene lamp, so she avoided going outside where king cobras slithered freely and tigers carried off neighborhood dogs.

But things have changed at Gowda's home in the remote southern village of Nada. A solar-powered lamp pours white light across the front of the mud-walled hut she shares with her three grown children, a puppy and a newborn calf. Now she can now cook, tend to her livestock and get water from a nearby well at night."

Drippy crap!

"Hope you saw the WWI program in which the USA borrowed citizens' telescopes and binoculars for the war effort, and then returned the ones they could at the end of the war. The guy in charge of this operation was....drum roll...FDR. Government programs can work."

Well, how about that, the government is good at what they're constitutionally mandated to do; provide for the common defense.

Calpers lost 50 million in Oregon.

What about that Calpers half a billion dollars (our tax money)???

CalPERS allocates $500M for environmental investments

http://www.sustainablebusinessoregon.com/national/2010/11/calpers-allocates-500m-for.html

[Douglas Keachie]

If we don't need energy independence, then maybe all our missile subs should run on diesel and refuel at all the friendly countries all around the world who so love to sell us oil?

There's a lot to be said for not having to import energy, from a "providing for the common defense" point of view.

[D. King]

Yeah, but what about this!!!

Calpers lost 50 million in Oregon.

What about that Calpers half a billion dollars (our tax money)???

CalPERS allocates $500M for environmental investments

http://www.sustainablebusinessoregon.com/national/2010/11/calpers-allocates-500m-for.html

[George Rebane]

For those unfamiliar with submarine technology, diesel subs are air-breathers and must either run surfaced or on easily detectable snorkels. Short intervals of submerged running is made possible by batteries which must be charged while surfaced or snorkeling.

[Greg Goodknight]

We are the OPEC of coal, oil shale and natural gas. If you want "energy independence", extract those while drilling offshore California and the Gulf. New coal to liquid technologies are also viable at current pricing and I understand there's even a portable natural gas to Diesel fuel converter being marketed to remote ranches that have gas wells bu are far from town.

Once the carbon dioxide scare is over we'll have realistic energy options.

[Greg Goodknight]

"The Great Judge and Grand Master of Snarkness himself, speaks."

Yes, you did. And given Todd J actually held elective office in this county, I think it's ludicrous of you to claim equivalent stature.

[Douglas Keachie]

Trust me, Greg, I would never want to claim to be Todd's equal. Sorry Todd, you're collateral damage in this skirmish.

We are experiencing technical and ecological difficulties in the neighborhoods where fraking is going on. How would you like a fraking operation in your neck of the woods, next to your well, Greg?

OPEC itself may no longer be the OPEC of the world, and when that day comes, I wonder which fork Greg will take?

Nice to have our nuke subs tucked safely away underwater for months at a time, isn't it George? Shoreleave in Yemen leaves something to be desired, not to mention the "sitting duck" aspects of a sub on or near the surface at all times.

[Greg Goodknight]

"Trust me, Greg"

Not a chance. You've proven yourself to be unworthy of trust.

[Douglas Keachie]

That's your opinion, and in my opinion, you have yet to prove yourself worthy of trust

[Greg Goodknight]

I've never lied on these pages, and I've never made up an anonymous sockpuppet to lie about you on TheUnion or other blogs. Since you've done both, you've proven your deceitfulness.

No, you shouldn't trust me. I'll call you on your BS whenever I see it.

[Douglas Keachie]

And this from a man who denied his own identity on The Union pages, despite using the handle "ggoodknight?" For all the times you bitched to Tom Harberts about me "revealing" your identity, I find your last post on this blog very amusing.

[Douglas Keachie]

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." - J.R.R. Tolkien

[Greg Goodknight]

Your misplaced class envy is showing, Keach.

No, I never denied I was ggoodknight. I just denied you the ability to use personal information in your posts about me, and you just couldn't keep trying despite the rules of the paper.

It was Michael P Anderson, using his very public persona from The Nevada Free Press, "mandersonation" who established that little quirk of TheUnion blog. This not quite anonymous person was threatening me with "extreme approbation" like any global warming denying brownshirt on Broad Street should expect, and he had a number of my posts in my defense thrown out solely because I dared call him "Mike". Sauce for the goose, Keach.

[Douglas Keachie]

Greg, addressing you by your first name is hardly using personal information. In addition you had already outed yourself in the paper several years before. I really know next to nothing about you, I don't even know what you look like, so other than flying your plane, what also was so personally damaging, that you hadn't already admitted in public or that hadn't already been written about you and your family?

I do know that without knowing hardly anything about me as a teacher, you've made it a personal campaign to disparage my teaching career, and in general, those of many of the K-12 teachers in the state. is that really news or personal information?

[Greg Goodknight]

The stated rule was no using of personal information, Keach. Too bad that was so hard for you.

From my first post on 6/3/2008 to my last post on 4/29/2011, I used only one identity, ggoodknight on theunion. I suspect Doug Keachie can't even remember all the socks he made up to harass others. That is not conduct one should expect from a schoolteacher.

[Douglas Keachie]

Even using an incorrect spelling plus a Mr. sent you off temper tantruming to Tom Harbert:

"Time and again we’ve discussed not giving out the names of others. I have no alternative but to put your account on premoderation.

“As far as AB32 never mentioning ozone, tell me how many ads you've seen for toilets, that mention by name the stuff you dispose in them, eh, Mr. GoodeNicht?”

--
Tom Harbert
Website Curator | Online Project Manager
The Union | 464 Sutton Way | Grass Valley CA 95945
(530) 477-4257 office
tharbert @ theunion . com

[Douglas Keachie]

"The stated rule was no using of personal information, Keach. Too bad that was so hard for you."

So if that was the stated rule, where do get special dispensation that allows you to discuss my teaching career? Especially when you knew nothing of it? And what is your plan to replace all the teachers you can? Where are you getting the replacements, and just how are they any better? I assume you are not donating your ever so talented self to the schools, as I asked before, and have yet to receive an answer?

[Todd Juvinall]

Keachie, Greg has whipped your sorry butt, give it up.

[Douglas Keachie]

Not in the dimesions inhabited by most people, Todd.

[D. King]

"Where are you getting the replacements, and just how are they any better?

Home Depot, given current scores, they could hardly be worse!

[Douglas Keachie]

"Home Depot, given current scores, they could hardly be worse!"

So much for language, culture, and borders...

[D. King]

...and don't forget all that wasted public pension money.

Question: What will public employees do when their pension money has been frittered away on environmental investments? Will it come as a complete surprise that Calpers has agenda driven investments that will fail?

CalPERS allocates $500M for environmental investments

http://www.sustainablebusinessoregon.com/national/2010/11/calpers-allocates-500m-for.htm

[Greg Goodknight]

I don't think I've ever discussed Keachie's "teaching career", but among the educators I grew up with, creating multiple nom de plumes in order to harasss and defame others would have resulted in a good paddling and being sent home. And his inability to remain on topic and and discuss the issues of the day in a reasonable fashion have indeed led me to question his suitability as a teacher.

I do recall Keachie waxing eloquently regarding his ideas on a lesson plan at TheUnion blogs, and it was so devoid of instructional value I wondered if anyone would want Keachie teaching their kids. I'm hazy on the details so I'm traveling down memory lane and reading old TheUnion comments looking for what that one. Starting at the first posts of mine there and working forwards, my first mention of Keachie as a teacher is as follows: "I can see why a retired San Francisco public school teacher like Keachie might see Bill Ayres as a respected educator." 10/16/2008

Keach, just wondering. Do you still view Bill Ayres as a respected educator?

[stevenfrisch]

Greg you certainly did not only mention but deride Keachie's teaching career, along with the careers and personal choices of many others here and on other blogs. You are an arrogant, self-important, frustrated bully, sir.

[Douglas Keachie]

""I can see why a retired San Francisco public school teacher like Keachie might see Bill Ayres as a respected educator."

And so it began, with Goodknight setting up a Straw man on Day One. You know Greg, this is actually getting rather boring, but I'll keep on playing for a while, if it amuses you. BTW, just who are you going to replace all your bad teachers with? You can't quite stay on your own hobby horse, even. Exit stage right!

[Greg Goodknight]

Keach, it isn't a straw man if you both wear your status as a certificated California public school teacher and refer to Bill Ayres as a respected educator. I gave you the date but sorry, I don't have a record as to which sock puppet you were using at that time, you'll have to guess if you want to dig it out. I'm sure I'll find other references that are appropriate to the mud you're slinging here but you'll have to be patient.

Frisch, coming from a bully like you I suppose that should be considered a compliment, and fighting back against the assaults from the likes of you and Keachie can't be done without hurting your feelings. So tell us, Steve, you'd like to have kids or grandkids in Keachie's classroom? What subject would you like that to be? And how is just mentioning the suitability of Keachie to be in a classroom now a discussion of his entire career, or his actual performance in a Frisco classroom, neither of which I've ever done? If he is still "teaching" as a sub, I'm sure he's discharging his duty of showing up on time and taking attendance admirably.

[Todd Juvinall]

Frisch is a failed short ordered cook and Keachie didn't retire soon enough for a lot of kids but their life's experiences make them soulmates in failure.

[Paul Emery]

George

Do you consider Todd's response an example of going after the messenger that you lectured to me about some time ago? Your comment would be appreciated. Isn't this kind of grammar school dribble what we're trying to rise above?

[stevenfrisch]

Todd, I am wondering how it is that you disrespect working men so much? What is wrong with being a chef, owning a business, putting my own capital at risk, not once but several times, and employing hundreds of people over a career? What is it about you guys that disrespects hard work in others so much? Greg does the same thing, and Woodsey and McD. You think your lives are so productive--what have you guys produced that is provides real value to people?

What a sad, sorry bunch of frustrated old men you guys have become.

Paul, it is impossible to rise above this drivel because George tolerates it from his friends and then enforces the rules against those who disagree with them. He is a victim of his own permissiveness.

[George Rebane]

Gentlemen, I am indeed a "victim of (my) own permissiveness". I wish I knew what knobs to turn to make the message the focus of discussion. The problem always seems to come when someone takes liberties with referring to a previous comment in the discussion thread, because that requires identifying the commenter and taking his logic/development to task. And that's where the ad hominen crap leaks in, and off we go again to the mud wars.

Can we not refer to a commenter's previous remarks in the third person? Example of refuting 'x infers y'.

Preferred: 'The assertion that x infers y is in gross error because of factor z, which is, perhaps, understandable to those for whom z was not accessible for one reason or another.'
Grade School Acumen: 'Sam, your'e an idiot, and inferring that x leads to y is typical of the fools that you hang around with. And I suppose you're also too stupid to consider that factor z had somthing to do with it.'

Sigh!

[D. King]

LOL!

[Greg Goodknight]

George, earlier in the thread I quoted Keachie and asked a question:

""But there are rubber rooms for software engineers in Nevada county."

George, is this sort of snark appropriate here?"

This is Keachie's communication style. The Union dealt with it with a series of moderations, which he would cope with by creating brand spanking new socks. He can't do it at The Union anymore and so here we are.

In Frisch's defense against the uncalled for remark by Todd, I've every expectation he was a decent cook, I'm just unsure how that prepared Frisch to be the CEO of the business council-less Sierra Business Council and attempt to direct policy within the Sierra and statewide.

[Todd Juvinall]

LOL

[Todd Juvinall]

In my defense I guess when Paul and SteveE and F attack me or Greg or George, I have this innate desire to attack back. I have listened to the drivel and personal assaults by them for years and decided I cannot let their lies and distortions prevail anymore. Frisch attacks me on any post yet comes and cry's a river when he gets exposed for it. Paul uses snarky name calling and then does a Frisch. I tried to hold my tongue and did so for many years but we now see what leaving the country's discourse up to a liberal has accomplished. They are simply youngsters and need discipline. I recently recalled how George W. Bush tried his damnedest to bring civility to the discourse in DC and he never responded to the personal attacks by the Frisch's and Paul's and it drove us nuts because the liberals never got responded to. Well, now in the blogs and other new media, we don't have to let the left hog everything. Frisch asks what is wrong with being a short order cook and I say nothing is wrong with that. What is wrong is that a failed short order cook now has a superiority complex and calls we conservatives unAmerican and unpatriotic (and then denies it) on these threads and over at the FUE's. That will bring a response. I say, to the lefty's, grow up a bit and maybe things will get better.

[Douglas Keachie]

Todd, shall we discuss failed spec house investors using other peoples money?

Why not leave the personal attacks out, as George has so brilliantly suggested, in his x,y,z example above?

Greg, as far as I know, only Sir Paws of Appledore, and Keachie, Release 2.0, ever got stuck permanently in the penalty box. I made up new socks for some initial concerns about self defense, especially with the tone the Scoggie Klan ws taking, and then I started making them up because it was such fun! Who can forget, Dr, GoodPhysics, or the one based on the plane you palmed off on some poor unsuspecting South African? Did I misinterpret that incident? It's possible but I doubt I did. I amde no effort to hide who I was with the later socks. And, of course, you yourself took great glee in announcing the arrivals, as soon as you we sure it was me.

Anyways, onwards and upwards, tomorrow's a new day.

[Douglas Keachie]

BTW, when you bounce back of the far wall, please answer the following question?

If software engineers are so concerned over schools and education, and know that having reliable and simple networked administrative software would reduce the costs of our schools, and the reliability and validity of record keeping, and bring joy to parents hearts, why haven't they developed such software and appropriate training videos to go with it, sold as a package, such that the $12 to $18/hour techies (all the Districts claim they can afford) can handle and maintain a reliable system?

When I started, there were no networks, and then, on my own, I had to gain at least a working knowledge of Novell 3.11, in my appropriate free, and UNPAID time, in addition to teaching a full load of classes.

What's with it that you bloody super geniuses in the software industry, after 30 years, STILL HAVE NOT DONE THIS? Are you not as bright as you'd like to pretend you are?

[Douglas Keachie]

If you want to talk snark, let's look at the attitudes of the software industry towards the schools, all these years. There is absolutely no sense of responsibility there. I remember extreme annoyance when I learned years fter the fact that Microsoft had a one click CD disk to fix dead Win95 installs, and yet for the teachers like myself, doing double duty, they had a reinstall procedure that required sitting at a machine for nearly and hour, answering inane questions, just to fix one crashed machine.

[George Rebane]

As a software developer I tried to sell teaching and administration utility software to the LA Unified School District, one of the world's largest school districts. No joy. I ran into a bureaucratic buzzsaw beyond description. In the final analysis, they wanted nothing to do with increasing efficiencies either in their administrative functions or in the classroom. I and other vendors were just cyphers to check off so that they could claim they were surveying the latest technologies for the education industry.

We entrepreneurs are pretty much one-trial learners and quickly adopted the motto of the Jewish Defense League toward the double dummies sitting administering our public schools - 'Never Again!'.

[Todd Juvinall]

Keachie, you liberals can't stay on track without personal attacks. You very neatly lived up to my previous point. You can never post without a personal attack and then cry a river when we respond. Regarding mu spec hose, it was published in the paper three times and as a investment it did not make it. Happens all the time all over the planet. You trying to make some moral equivalent hay bothers me not. I shudder at the fate of the poor students put into the world by crummy teaching.

[Greg Goodknight]

It takes a special kind of immaturity to be proud of the limited number of one's sock puppets were actually thrown off The Union blog permanently. The Union blogging is no more and it's a shame the actions of a few ruined it for the many.

Keach once again has his head firmly where the sun never shines when it comes to the disposition of a former plane of mine after a vapor lock aborted a takeoff, but then he likes to forget everything that isn't fodder for ad hominems.. I "palmed it off" to the insurance company for the agreed on in advance insured value of the hull when they offered it. The initial FAA investigator told me it made him very happy to be able to talk to the pilot after an incident like that (there's usually no one left to chat with) and the NTSB found no pilot error. A somewhat shady expat South African aircraft mechanic in the bay area bought it at auction, spruced it up, got rid of the log books showing the note from the insurer and the last I heard it was on the market in South Africa as a 'never damaged' creme puff at twice my insured value. Caveat emptor.

Parents who didn't know much about computers would push for the schools to include them, even in elementary schools. My first wife was profusely thanked by the principal of Mt. St.Mary's School when, at a parent meeting in the mid to late '90's, she eloquently answered a parent's question about more computers with a convincing argument that more computers would hinder progress in the education that mattered, literacy and numeracy.

Microsoft isn't in business to make software, they're in business to make money and they're good at it. While it warms my heart to think of the aggravation Keach had fighting software that wasn't ready to be used in schools by naive and unskilled users, they would have been better off without it.

[Douglas Keachie]

I would agree with you George. Other than Harrington, most of SFUSD was in the Stonewall Age through the 1980's and on into the 1990's. The teachers and administrators who understood the potential were ignored, and, under, or not funded at all.

Now if I were a certain special person here, I would be all for firing the entire software industry, but I'm not, and I believe the country is up against cultural inertia in these areas, and the sooner we recognize the concept, the better off we will be. Since there are many engineers here, I will give a simple example: Back when the Bay Area bridges started getting too crowded, an engineer suggested collecting tolls one way only. He was roundly booed, by the powers that be, and the motoring public. I believe the suggestion came in the late 40's or early 50's. 20 plus years later, in desperation, they tried it, and we've all never looked back.

FASTRAK has followed a similar pattern. In my final years in the Bay Area, while commuting from Oakland, I watched in horror an amazement as thousands every day still used cash. The public seems to have FINALLY caught on these days...does that help explain, "Cultural Inertia?"

Todd, just try erasing "failed" from your vocabulary and see what a monk of silence you will become, when discussing others humans of the leftish persuasion.

[Todd Juvinall]

Keachie are you saying the liberals are not failed? Where have you been?

[Douglas Keachie]

"While it warms my heart to think of the aggravation Keach had fighting software that wasn't ready to be used in schools by naive and unskilled users, they would have been better off without it."

And I'm sure this country would be even further bombed into the Dark Ages and back waters of the global market place if teachers like myself hadn't stepped up to the plate, and made those labs hum, despite the slings and arrows of outrageous cowards who ran from the classroom and then turned around to throw daggers willy-nilly at every chance, at those who stayed behind to meet the challenges with what resources the society provided.

Find me a job paying above minimum wage where the prospective applicant isn't expected to be reasonably knowledgeable about at least two of the Microsoft Office/Star Office/OpenOffice applications. Being familiar with a cell phone is also an unwritten requirement, but fortunately by the time they came along, the younger generation had gotten it, far better than senior software engineers, so teachers learned from their students, instead of vs versa.

[Douglas Keachie]

BTW, writing to express oneself to others is a source of excellent feedback for improving writing, AKA, literacy. Is your wife's former school still computer free? Do you advocate yanking computers out of all K12 schools, or do you advocate raising taxes so that schools can afford trained and skilled operators, so that the networks don't turn June into a Pre-Summer's Nightmare for teachers attempting to post grades?

[Douglas Keachie]

"Is your wife's former school still computer free? "

Should be:

"Is your wife's former school still upgraded computer free?" Are they still running Win95? Or maybe even DOS 6.2?

[Greg Goodknight]

California would be much better off were our K-12 students not in the bottom of the barrel nationally for math and language. Nice going, Keach.

It takes 12+ solid years for most to go from 'what is a number' to a good math analysis or calculus class. It takes maybe 12 solid hours to learn enough Word or Writer to write a nicely formatted and printed paper, assuming one can read and write. As usual, Keachie's rationality is missing in inaction.

Funny, my kid only got his high school diploma 4 years ago and he didn't have a computer to use at his desk in any class. Did this mean they failed to properly educate him?

[Douglas Keachie]

"Funny, my kid only got his high school diploma 4 years ago and he didn't have a computer to use at his desk in any class. Did this mean they failed to properly educate him?"

Nope , it just means you're fishing for snarks again.

Is you kid making it through college without a computer in any class to use at his desk as well?

If so, maybe it is because he is expected to carry a laptop or IPad around with him?

If you were to de-snarkify your question so that it read, "my kid didn't use any computer or computer like device, including terminals, in high school for any purpose, I think I could safely say you were lying.

Like I said before, you are getting trite and boring.

[Douglas Keachie]

"California would be much better off were our K-12 students not in the bottom of the barrel nationally for math and language. Nice going, Keach."

I don't recall teaching either reading or math? Do I have amnesia?

Barrels can be full, partially full, or all the way down to empty. Unfortunately, California is not, "at the bottom of the barrel." You are incorrect in this matter. The national test scores seem to vary for the most part within a range of 10%, and possibly as much as 20%. So, if the topmost state is at 280 on a given score, then California might be as low as 224, but it is certainly not approaching 0. The vast majority of the scores are much closer to being above 252, where the top would be 280. Considering the makeup of the population, extremely diverse, with English often not the home language, that's not too bad.

"assuming one can read and write" aye, there's the rub. You take you word processing for granted, and are ignorant of the advantages it has for teaching writing itself. How long does it take to become proficient in Excel or Access? Or Photoshop?

"Funny, my kid only got his high school diploma 4 years ago and he didn't have a computer to use at his desk in any class. Did this mean they failed to properly educate him?"

No, it means you are fishing for snarks again, and it is getting trite and boring.

"he didn't have a computer to use at his desk in any class."

except possibly in a computer lab where it wasn't, "his desk?" and where it "wasn't a class" it was a lab?" De-snarkify your comment and we can continue to discuss the roles of computers in modern education, k-12.

Can you also make the statement that your kid never made use of a computer or terminal or other computer like device in high school, whether provided by the school or by you?

Is he going to Troglodyte U. where he continues to use no computers or IPads as well?

I don't think so...

[Douglas Keachie]

You can eat all the school statistics you want at the following:

http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/

[Paul Emery]

George

As far as you being a "victim of (my) own permissiveness" I think you miss the point. It is fair game to dissect an argument and to hold writers responsible for the depth and validity of their comments. This can be done with a sense of class and respect for each others ideas. When Todd has to degenerate the conversation to childish descriptions of a persons appearance it degrades the level of discourse to the extent that makes me wonder why I or anyone else bothers to visit here other than to go ra ra and hi five to your posts, which to me me are often provocative and thoughtful. I wonder sometimes why I bother to spend any time visiting here. If driving me and others out is what Todd wants to accomplish with his childish blats then he may succeed because I have no desire to waste my time with such discourse.

[George Rebane]

My apologies Paul. Sometimes I wish I had knobs on everyone's head so that I could tune the tenor of their responses, but I don't. I think there are enough discussants here on RR for you to trade/critique ideas with only those you wish, and just ignore those who rub you the wrong way. In these jousts it almost always takes two to tango even if one partner is not giving tit for tat. Refuse the dance.

[Greg Goodknight]

No computer lab, Keach, and he did fine at Neanderthal U. The lack of any fine vocational-style instruction by unionized and certificated K-12 instructors was no hindrance.

There's a big difference between *using* computers to get some work done and wasting any class time playing with them. The problem isn't lack of instruction in using word processing software, it's literacy and numeracy. Personally, I've never had *any* instruction in using any software application, outside of one very expensive CAE tool. Have you?

Yes, look at the nationsreportcard. California is as low as 47th in math (8th grade NAEP). Thank god for Mississippi and thank the California Teacher's Assn for standing up for high priced mediocrity.

[Douglas Keachie]

You still don't have a very clear picture of what happened at Lowell. Bill Hewlett wanted his alma mater to be a leader, and supplied the school with computers (terminals) as soon as 1978. The guy I replaced didn't like the double duty of being responsible for all of Lowell's machines, and teaching AP Chem at the same time. A great deal of my time was spent simply keeping the place up and running, probably at least 50% of it, and also figuring out just what we needed as we transitioned from 386's, to 486's, and finally Pentiums, with concurrent software changes as well. Did I mentions running wires through the ceilings to other classrooms, and the joy of bnc connector installlations?

Hewlett took care of the hardware purchases, but I had to scrounge like mad to get software grants, the local PTSA and the SF Ed Foundation helped a lot, and institutions as diverse as Lucas Arts and the Franklyn group and Borland International also chipped in. Some of my former students became employed at Logitech and other places, and they donated software as well, but coordinating all this took a lot of time.

As was pointed out in previous posts, these kids were about 50% GATES qualified, and, like your son, yourself, and myself, quite capable of learning most software by experimentation. As far as formal classes went, other than some general intro courses to qualify for the computer credential, I've only taken online training through www.lynda.com, and the stuff that now is finally available, after of course, I've retired.

I sure wish you would answer direct questions, instead of weasel wording your snarky way out of them. Did your son use a computer in high school or college?

Are 80 % of California's test scores within 10% of the USA national averages? And do any of California's test scores deviate by more than 20% of the national averages? I say, "no they don't" and challenge you to prove me wrong, without using a doctored up non academic political site. The only bottom that is bare here is.....not a barrel's.

[Greg Goodknight]

Is California's 8th grade students is, or is they ain't, 47th in the country by the NAEP math assessment?

You're the snarky one, Keach. I *never* claimed or intimated no computer use, but my late 1st wife did argue against trying to make computers a main focus, and we were in complete agreement on that. As was Mt. Saint Mary's School. A few computers were in the library and that's where they belonged.

The problem in California schools is not being able to crank out a two page paper or finding free porn using a computer. It is literacy and numeracy. The bard's English, 13th century al-jabr and 17th century calculus is the foundation. With that in place, being able to 'keyboard' is a given.

[Douglas Keachie]

I'm not answering your question until you answer all of mine.

[Douglas Keachie]

I note two things about your son's school.

It is not a high school.

and,

they indicate a belief that the primary role of teaching students belongs to the parents. if that is the philosophy you believe in, then blame California's parents, not the teachers.

"Mission Statement
Mt. St. Mary Academy, the educational ministry of St. Patrick Parish, was established in 1859. Our mission is to serve families primarily of the Catholic Communities of St. Patrick, St. Canice and St. Dominic as well as families of other faith traditions and surrounding communities. Recognizing that parents are the primary educators of their children, we collaborate to educate our students to achieve their potential in the areas of faith development, academic excellence, social awareness and emotional growth. We exist to inspire and motivate our students to recognize their call to be responsible, faith-filled leaders in the reality of today’s multicultural and diverse world."