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« Sacramento vs California (updated 28apr12) | Main | ‘Why the technical stuff?’ »

28 April 2012

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Russ Steele

This acton will push more Republican donors to use SuperPACs.

Douglas Keachie

"This acton will push more Republican donors to use SuperPACs. '

As if this wasn't already the preferred method of donating.

George Rebane

Nobody cares about this because the lamestream does not report it when done by leftwing Presidents. But Molly bar the door should any Republican be caught gathering such data - it will be "Enemies List" time all over again

billy T

Enemies list is spot on. Can't remember collecting such a lengthy list since J. Edgar Hoover was in full form. With Obama, he has made the transition from Big Pharma, Fox News, Banks, The Supreme Court, Rich Folk, Budget Cutters, Rich folks again, to individuals who donate to the opposition. Thought the President of the United States was President of everybody when it comes to political views. Guess I should have saw this coming in 2009. An ACORN legal rep would of course codon picketing and harassing individuals and their families at their homes for not playing ball and loaning to people with...er...less than stellar credit. That worked out in grand fashion. Then there was Joe the Plumber standing at his back fence when Obama walking on water passed by. Yes, Joe the Plumber was a plant placed there by evil political opponents to make Obama look bad. He was investigated, screwed, blued, and tattooed. Funny, he was standing in his yard. Obama came to him, not vice versa. Joe is the enemy. Guess I should have caught on with Big O's dissing of people who cling to their Bibles. Space constrains me from going on. Nixon taught us that having political enemies lists puts a chilling effect on the entire political process. Who was it that said "there are no Red States, no Blue States, just the United States. Great speech Mr. Obama.

Michael Anderson

Sorry George, this anti-Bill of Rights nonsense is independent of political party. Are you willing to defend GWB's egregious violations of the US Constitution? As you well know, the drone program began under his watch.

What ails the USA has nothing to do with presidents, congress critters, or courts. It's the shadow gov't, otherwise known as the Military Industrial Complex / Pharma Industrial Complex / Security Industrial Complex / Materials Industrial Complex. It's a system.

What's really unique is that the 50 byzantine state governments act independently, laundering money this way and that way, creating tax loopholes one day then cratering them the next.

Sausage-making, indeed.

Todd Juvinall

Money is speech is right on the mark. I have always believed that.(Instant disclosure required). The politicians try to wring it out to gain an advantage over the opposition, usually left over right (excluding the pseudo McCain) and I still can not believe GWB signed the stupid M/F (McCain/Feingold)law. Anyway, now that we have computers and social media and everyone's using it, I knew there would be a gathering of that info because I did the gathering years ago when I discovered computers when I was Chairman of the NCRCC. I used it for fundraising and mailers of information nothing nefarious.

The use of personal and public positions to intimidate is as old as the Greeks in 550 BC. It works for a while until exposed to the light and the peoples outrage takes over. Obama is going to be swept from office in November. Democrats will lose another 15 seats in the House and 12 in the Senate. They will lose another 200 in state races. Why? Because the alternate media is available and it is exposing the American people to the slime the left is practicing.

I am surprised by the paranoia of MichaelA in his post regarding the Military/Industrial/Big Pharma (never heard that one before) conspiracies to rule the planet. The problem is the shaping of the minds of the young in my view. Since the democrats have taken over the entire education system in my lifetime, America has been dumbed down to lower any expectations of greatness. And I thought "self-esteem" was so paramount to life? Remember John Vasconcellos? Anyway, when "big pharma" teams up with big "Humvee" then we may have to be worried.

Brad Croul

Yes, the sleaze doth runneth over, right here in River City.

Outing people is a favorite pastime of some of the regulars on this blog and other local blogs. It's public domain, so it is fair game, they like to rationalize.

I did not get from the Strassel article that any illegalities occurred. Romney can do the same, if he wants to. Strasel just wants to imply that Obama possibly could sic the IRS, or INS on anyone he pleases. Hey, if they have something to hide, maybe he should.

billy T

"To the victor goes the spoils" is an old political quote, probably best used by Andrew Jackson. Send Obama 25 bucks and you will probably get a nice glossy photo of Barrack and Michele. Send fifty and you might get a Christmas card. Send a lot and you get to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom. No big deal. What is troubling is the understated trend of exacting punishment for those who don't cough up the dough. Silicon Valley learned the hard way during the Clinton Administration after donating nothing to nobody for years. It is no longer "if you want to play, you going to pay". The unspoken trend is if you don't pay somebody will make it rather uncomfortable. They used to call that extortion. After hearing for a couple of years about Obama's war chest, maybe the reports were inaccurate. The billion dollar campaign might be only a mere 750 million. Trouble in paradise? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-27/clinton-backers-wait-for-obama-s-to-cut-checks-for-super-pac.htm

Todd Juvinall

When I worked for Bernie Richter in the Assembly for nine months during the only year the R's ran the Assembly in my lifetime, I got to hear exactly what was expected of the "donors" to the democrats. We were aghast at the blatant "quid pro quo" the democrats extracted from special interests. To be clear, Bernie Richter was a very honest representative and did not allow that behavior.

George Rebane

MichaelA 1243am missed the mark. Nowhere did I imply that only the Dems have enemies lists - remember Nixon? My point is how asymmetrically the media treats the existences of Repub vs Dem enemies lists. These are orthogonal concepts that a bit more careful reading would reveal.

And who started a military drone program has nothing to do with anything. It is ultimately who will condone their use in exerting extra-constitutional control over Americans that will matter (but hey, maybe it won't happen).

Your outburst against the industrial complexes as the cause of all evil is remarkable in that it doesn't imply their intimate relationship with government. It is only government that allows them to survive in oligopolistic environments. Your cure is a collectivist revolution, mine is to reduce the scope and size of government. And step one is to starve the beast.

George Rebane

BradC 812am - Where is there any implication of illegalities in either my post or Strassel's piece? Keeping enemies lists is perfectly legal. It's what it may portend that invites discussion. Again, more careful reading please.

Steven Frisch

The difference between President Obama and President Nixon is clear as a bell.

The Nixon enemies list led to requests by officials in the White House to the IRS to investigate specific people, and to communications between the White House and other government officials to make sure those on the list not receive government grants and contracts. It is important to note that although requests were made, the IRS never actually investigated any of the people on the list, and never gave them any higher level of scrutiny than anyone else, as confirmed by a congressional investigation. In addition, it became clear (although there was never a prosecution that confirmed) that Nixon had first hand knowledge of the list and indeed told Chuck Colson to place certain people on the list.

If President Obama were to do the same thing he should be impeached. But there is nothing in the WSJ editorial, or in the record to indicate that he has.

So, once again, it is just more carefully crafted just short of libelous rhetoric implying impropriety, with no real issue, evidence, or reason to believe any of the implications are true behind it. It is the paranoid, delusional, rantings of a bunch of crazies. Just like the birth certificate, muslim origins, terrorist leanings are all bull hockey. It is the propaganda masters channeling Joseph Goebbels.

George Rebane

SteveF 936am - You were doing so well in the early part of your comment; and then you went off the rails. Yes indeed, part of being a nebbish in a republican democracy is the right and duty to keep a very gimlet eye on your government, and because of its enormous and escalating power, to take note of the harbingers and wider portents of its activities.

Such an enterprise to collectivists is simply lese majesty, and more reason for tighter regulation and control

Steven Frisch

The simple fact is George that there is absolutely no evidence that the Obama administration has an "enemies list" or that the President is engaged in any activities similar to the enemies list of Nixon fame. To imply otherwise is histrionic, overblown, propaganda. It is spreading fear and doubt where there is no reason to believe fear and doubt should exist. I think you need to brush up on scapegoat archetype.

George Rebane

What Strassel reported has been on national news now for three days - "This past week, one of his campaign websites posted an item entitled "Behind the curtain: A brief history of Romney's donors." In the post, the Obama campaign named and shamed eight private citizens who had donated to his opponent. Describing the givers as all having "less-than-reputable records," the post went on to make the extraordinary accusations that "quite a few" have also been "on the wrong side of the law" and profiting at "the expense of so many Americans."

These are people like Paul Schorr and Sam and Jeffrey Fox, investors who the site outed for the crime of having "outsourced" jobs. T. Martin Fiorentino is scored for his work for a firm that forecloses on homes. Louis Bacon (a hedge-fund manager), Kent Burton (a "lobbyist") and Thomas O'Malley (an energy CEO) stand accused of profiting from oil. Frank VanderSloot, the CEO of a home-products firm, is slimed as a "bitter foe of the gay rights movement."

These are wealthy individuals, to be sure, but private citizens nonetheless. Not one holds elected office. Not one is a criminal. Not one has the barest fraction of the position or the power of the U.S. leader who is publicly assaulting them."

'That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet (or putrid).'

Steven Frisch

Outing the proclivities, activities or beliefs of campaign donors is not an "enemies list" in the Nixonian tradition. The executive branch using the power of the federal government to order investigations, above and beyond those that any other private citizen would be subject to through during the normal course of business, through official organs like the IRS is. This is nothing new, nor limited to the Obama campaign.

The very same outing of Obama donors is going on in the media and by campaign people on Romney's side is being done as well. Here is an example from the Weekly Standard:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/largest-donor-obama-super-pac-calls-mormonism-cult_642210.html

The WSJ report erred in making the the analogy, and you, and your followers, gleefully followed suit.

What the President's campaign is highlighting is the world-view of Romney's major donors. This is a legitimate campaign issue. Just as President Obama receiving campaign donations form unions would be. Are you going to forgo critiquing the President for receiving labor donations for the rest of the campaign? I think not.

Here is the list of donors:

Donors who benefit from betting against America

Paul “Chip” Schorr: Paul Schorr has given $112,500 to Romney’s presidential ambitions through Super PAC and direct campaign donations. As a partner at Blackstone, Schorr closed a deal in 2007 to outsource the services of seven U.S. companies to a firm in India, boosting that firm’s profits by $220 million and making millionaires of the Indian management team. In 2006, he arranged a buyout of a Colorado travel reservations company that led to 841 layoffs while Blackstone and its partners recouped the billions of dollars they invested in less than a year.

Sam and Jeffrey Fox: Sam and Jeffrey Fox serve as co-chairman of Romney’s finance operation in Missouri and, together, have donated $220,000 to Romney’s presidential ambitions. They also control the Harbour Group investment firm which bragged about buying an automotive accessories manufacturing company in Kansas in 1997 and moving production to Mexico. In 2002, the Harbour group’s Mexico operation decided to outsource to China because China was “offering incentives and making it easy to open operations there.” The Chinese government awarded Sam Fox the Marco Polo Award for “his company’s role in China’s economic development and his humanitarian contributions to that country.”

T. Martin Fiorentino: T. Martin Fiorentino is on Romney’s Florida finance team and has bundled over $140,000 for the Romney campaign. He also lobbied on behalf of Lender Processing Services, a “foreclosure mill” that paid him to lobby on legislation aimed at preventing lenders from “making loans that borrowers would have difficulty repaying.” The government has reprimanded Lender Processing Services “for unsound practices related to residential mortgage loan serving and foreclosure processing.”

Special-interest donors

Romney’s stances on social and economic issues, like his long-standing alliance with Big Oil, attracts the contributions of high-dollar donors who are interested in pursuing a specific agenda. Here are just a few of special-interest donors that Romney is taking money from:

Louis Moore Bacon: An early mega-donor for Romney, Louis Moore Bacon donated $500,000 to the Restore Our Future Super PAC. Bacon makes his profit off of oil, first making a huge profit from successfully betting that gas prices would rise before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1989. Bacon’s firm, Moore Capital, was fined $25 million for attempting to manipulate certain commodity futures markets.

Thomas O’Malley: Thomas O’Malley is the CEO of PBF Energy, America’s fourth largest petroleum refining company, and gave $100,000 to Restore Our Future. Not only did PBF energy help drive gas prices up this year by curtailing gas production, but it spilled 6.6 million gallons of oil at a refinery in New Jersey. The release of toxic gas and eventual explosion at another of its refineries in Delaware also directly contributed to a spike in gas prices.

Kent Burton: Kent Burton is one of Romney’s new bundlers who raised more than $25,000 in one month for Romney’s campaign. He is also a registered lobbyist for a wide array of energy clients, including Marathon Oil and Shell Oil.

Frank Vandersloot: Frank Vandersloot is the national finance co-chairman of the Romney campaign and, through his company Melaleuca, has donated $1 million to Restore Our Future. He is also a “litigious, combative, and a bitter foe of the gay rights movement” who “spent big” on ads in an “ultimately unsuccessful effort to force Idaho Public Television to cancel a program that showed gays and lesbians in a favorable light to school children.”

Source: http://www.keepinggophonest.com/

George Rebane

StevenF 1145am - Wonderful! Great confirmation of my point. A progressivist equates the actions of his candidate's election committee with that of a media outlet that supports the opposing candidate. (This is part of the different logics that both sides operate under. To a conservative the 1145am comment fails the 'this is not that' test. See also next post 'Why the technical stuff?')

Steven Frisch

Wonderful, great conformation of my point, a conservatarian picks the one point they can make, ignoring every other point, and ignoring the evidence of their eyes, that numerous other campaign organs of the Romney campaign, including PAC's SuperPAC's, are doing the very same thing, thus proving their ability to simultaneously have their head in the sand and the clouds.

George Rebane

StevenF 1234pm - OK then. This has indeed been a profitable exchange with each side taking pleasure in its vindication and victory. Why can't they all end with such crisp results?

Todd Juvinall

I would a dollar to a doughnut the Obama campaign is aligned with Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and their attempts to kill off ALEC. That is how the smart "progressives" have a enemies list without it being called one. That "plausible deniability" by the Obama camp is alive and well. SteveF and his tedious cut and paste show the vacuousness of a liberals head. Where a liberal can have his head in a dark place and in the clouds at the same time.

Steven Frisch

How nice that even though your "principles" as described here are antithetical to the donors actions--the outsourcing, the manipulation of commodity markets, the receipt of huge government subsidies, the manipulation of consumer markets, the release of toxic substances into our atmosphere, the lobbying, the denial of basic human rights--that you are right there defending them when you have a chance.

Scott Obermuller

re: Steven F's characterization of conservative donors as those who "bet against America" was telling. Making a company more profitable by lowering labor costs is not betting against America. Neither is risking huge sums in the commodities market. The failure in the operations of large industrial plants as an example was really over the top. Don't want to make mistakes Steve? Stay in bed with the covers over your head. One of the major assets of our country becoming wealthy and powerful were the men and women that took risks. A lot failed, but enough made good to do well for themselves and the ones that took risks in investing in them. Not to mention all of the employees they hire. None of them denied anyone any rights at all. That's just fabricating nonsense. And please don't complain about "releasing toxic substances into the atmosphere". If they had given to your fav political group, you wouldn't give a rodent's large behind. Why don't you look into all of the left wing donors and give us a report? How does George Soros make money? What left wing wealthy political donor actually makes life better for humanity? And where do they get their money? Do they voluntarily tax themselves at the higher Obama rate? The one that Obama won't even pay? Where does the money that you take as income come from? Can you trace it all back to unicorns and bunnies frolicking in the meadow? Please.

Todd Juvinall

What fascinates me about extreme liberals like SteveF is they never look in the mirror. Every singe piece of the list in his last post is actually what the liberals do and then they try to convince others they are just pointing out what those terrible conservatives are doing. Scott, Frisch knows about failure in the demise of his restaurant business called Passages up in Truckee. I would bet he is still just PO'd because he failed at capitalism. But, like most on the right we dust ourselves off and tarry about once more to try and generate success in America. SteveF obviously has yet to do that.

He represents a failed ideology but like the Phoenix, his national socialist/communist philosophies keep arising. It is sad that in a country of such possibilities, people like Frisch are there to constantly bash those that succeed while at the same time picking the pockets of the taxpayers and the employees. I would say he is a failure under the tenets of a true American capitalist philosophy and that is too darn bad. If I had SteveF's ability to copy/paste wiki as he does I just might become a real important plagiarist too.

Michael Anderson

The attacks on Steve Frisch here are over the top. Steve can defend himself for sure, but I'll just add that it's pretty much bullshit what I've been reading here.

Todd, Steve's restaurant is not relevant, just as your foreclosure is not relevant, so please stop bringing it up. I don't know the details about either of these situations, nor do I care to look into them further.

I have reviewed Steve's 990s going back several years. They are exemplary. There are no such documents available for CABPRO and I am pretty sure that if I were to waste my time and dig down into the past 15 years of CABPRO operations, I would find donations that were declared as tax-deductible charity.

But I'm not going to do that, because again it is a waste of my time. At the end of the day, we all have to look in the mirror and tell ourselves that we are fine upstanding human beings. I believe that all the posters here fit into that category.

Stop the bashing. Stick to the issues. Thanks.

Todd Juvinall

Why are you carrying water for SteveF with details only he knows MichaelA. Why do you not hold him to the same standards in his words as you do us? I think you doth protest too much. Is he feeding you the details? Looks like it. I have mentioned Passages twice in my whole commenting career so I would say you are way off base MichaelA. SteveF and E posted my foreclosure all over the internet for months so your BS outrage is too funny. CABPRO is not tax exempt and pays taxes unlike grant seekeing SBC. MichaelA so you are peeing in the wind. Frsch's 990's are not above reproach and if you knew how to read them you would agree. Sorry to say you have picked the wrong friend.

Michael Anderson

Dear Todd,

Don't worry about me, I know how to read a 990. Are you saying you would be willing to show me some CABPRO disclosure documents? Great, that would be really cool. Let's do it!

I don't carry Steve's water, I just make independent observations based upon facts.

Just an FYI, when I pee into the wind I always take a tack slightly to the left, which so far has managed to keep my pants dry 100% of the time.

Also, I don't pick friends, I make them. You should try it sometime.

Michael A.

Todd Juvinall

No MichaelA, I have plenty of friends and I make many more everyday. So don't worry about me. I don't beieve I intimated that a provate membership organization that pays taxes, CABPRO, would open its books just as you would not do with your tax return. I think you are doing what you seem to do a lot and that is make things up from whole cloth.

If you knew how to read a 990 then perhaps a allegation by Mr. Firsch that he does not get 99& of his funds from public sources might get you interested in reading them. But apparently not. Perhaps you could be more transparent in your defense of him if he wasn't supplying you with talking points.

The bottom line point about your rabid defense of the liberal is your lack of the same fervor in chastising your friend Mr. F as he has trashed Mr. Rebane and the rest of the conservative posters here. I don't recall you once chastising him on the liberal blogs either. Simply, you are a hypocrite. What a hoot!

billy T

Think coal has jumped up a notch or two on the enemies list. Not that coal is a individual in and of itself. Sleazy is what I call Solyndra, but that is just my opinion. Maybe solar will save us from all this sleaze. It is going to save us from burning up like a fried Twinkie and save us from coastal flooding, so maybe it will save us from migraines and the common cold. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-29/merkel-s-green-jobs-ambition-stalls-with-cuts-for-solar.html

George Rebane

MichaelA 809pm - "The attacks on Steve Frisch here are over the top." Really now. Who here has affronted SteveF in any measure that he broadly castigates and denigrates his opposition on other leftwing blogs. I have been emailed some of the most vitriolic sentiments from that gentleman. There and here he has reviled me personally with names and accusations that no one on RR has used against him. If there is substance to your complaint, start with me. Where have I said anything "over the top" about SteveF?

Michael, your testimony is now both curious and suspect.

Steven Frisch

Really, George....I don't think I have ever e-mailed you anything that has been over the top. Can you produce them? I have however openly called you a bigot here. Anyone who allows posts to stand that call people "raghead" and "jiggaboo" is a bigot. Pure and simple.

Michael Anderson

George wrote: "Michael, your testimony is now both curious and suspect."

My "testimony" is in regards to the attacks on the Sierra Business Council and Mr. Frisch's former restaurant. In various blogs I have also ascribed the same reprobation in response to those who would use Mr. Juvinall's foreclosure (of which no one has any details except Mr. Juvinall, as it should be) as a means of attack.

None of this stuff is appropriate; attacking how a person puts food on the table is beneath how all of these blogs should operate. And that includes what Mr. Pelline does for a living.

Lastly, it is not necessary for me to "testify" as to who is making these attacks. I am talking about a tone, not specific people--if some blog commenter desires to build a dossier, that will be his burden.

Douglas Keachie

Dossier = "enemies list?"

Todd Juvinall

George, as you cn see there is no equal outrage at Frisch for his attacks on you and the rest. Therefore MichaelA's protestations are simply biased and unimportant (and he never answers our questions). Regarding my foreclosure, Mr. F and Mr. E copy/pasted the legal notice (pretty transparent MA don't you agree?)into the blogs over and over so MichaelA shows his ignorance. Also, the reason SBC gets discussed is they are a 99% tax supported organization (please review a Barry Pruett post for proof) and accomplish nothing in the creation of jobs, other than maybeinside their own office. We simply point that out and are relentlessly attacked by Frisch and others. I feel sad for MichaelA since he cannot bring himself to be the balanced arbiter of Frisch etal's attacks and namecalling. When he exhibts the same vigor on a continual basis then perhaps he will have credibility.

THEMIKEYMCD

Warning: Sincere question to follow:

Why is Obama dead set against the Keystone Pipeline, despite the fact that it would create US jobs, decrease dependence on Mideast Oil, and decrease the price of gas at US pumps [thus likely help US GDP growth and savings rates]?

Gregory

Regarding "tone", RL Crabb's cartoon portraying Pelline as an Eric Cartmanesque jerk doing his best to promote disharmony and strife in the community was spot on. Pelline has a history of both defaming others and suborning defamations by the posters on his blog, with Keachie, Ben Emery and arguably Frisch being among those who have used Pelline's low standards to pile on the folks they don't like.

The evidence is clear that Pelline eats and sells advertising space for a living.

Then there was the time on The Union blog that Michael Anderson made it clear my continued opposition to IPCC-branded science would be met by "extreme approbation" in a set of messages that frightened my wife and sent us to one of the lawyers in the family to explore possible actions.

"You people" should stop calling the kettle black. You generally don't get hit as hard as you deserve.

Gregory

"Really, George....I don't think I have ever e-mailed you anything that has been over the top. "

Really, Frisch, George didn't say you did or didn't. Only that he has been sent, not identifying the senders, the denigrating screeds you have posted elsewhere, generally the home of Sierra RudeWhineyFarts run by the Former Union Editor.

I've no doubt George's friends alert him when he's being insulted elsewhere.

George Rebane

Thank you Gregory. The emails re SteveF I was referring to came from other readers who frequent our most prominent leftwing blogger. These emails arrive on a semi-regular basis and contain copies of what is posted there that references RR or me. Not very nice material as Gregory points out.

In these pages, among other things and besides "bigot", I have been called a liar and a traitor by Mr Frisch, and he has also told me to go back to where I came from as a youth. Although opportunity abounds, such name calling has not been reciprocated.

I suffer his presence here because, unlike many other posts, RR is an open forum of ideas and he serves as an excellent exemplar of the progressive mindset in both character and ideology. That he understands little of what is written here is part and parcel of his 'charm'.

With regard to 'tone'; while we discuss a diverse range of topics and issues here - most of them difficult to isolate and focus on - the emphasis is on the topic and less on the discussants. The RR record of almost 1,400 posts and 22,000 comments is here for all to see and review. It takes very little time to determine the instigation, kind, and quarter of the ad hominem attacks. In any event, the tone of the comments is set by the individual commenters as long as they stay away from one-on-one mudball fights.

Gregory

Mikeymcd, the answer to your sincere question is that Obama's core supporters hate fossil fuels in general and the Canadian tar sand developments in particular. He needs their enthusiasm, and would lose more by losing them than any gain he could get from the center.

Then there's the fact the refineries that would handle the heavy tar sand derived crude are by and large Koch assets, and would lessen the demand at those refineries for other low quality crudes, for example, the stuff from Hugo Chavez's Venezuela that George Soros apparently has large positions in. You might recall Soros has a history of bankrolling democrats seeking office.

Does that help the focus? When in doubt, follow the money.

billy T

Add Apple Computers to the enemies list

Ryan Mount

> Apple Computers to the enemies list

Ouch.

THEMIKEYMCD

Gregory, 9:23AM. Thank you. So to paraphrase, he is using environmental concerns as a way of serving Soros and EPA zealots while punishing Americans and the Koch Brothers.

His 3 month old 'Statement by the President on the Keystone XL Pipeline' offers now reasoning except that 'republicans are to blame.'

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/01/18/statement-president-keystone-xl-pipeline
"the rushed and arbitrary deadline insisted on by Congressional Republicans"

Gregory

When it became clear the arbitrary deadline the administration was following would be after the election, Republicans forced the issue. Now there is a slow and steady stream of Democratic legislators who wish to be reelected joining a bipartisan effort to bypass the President and authorize the pipeline's international segment in spite of the blocking. Expect a showdown as the election heats up.

Gregory

"So to paraphrase, he is using environmental concerns as a way of serving Soros and EPA zealots while punishing Americans and the Koch Brothers."

To paraphrase, friends get rewarded, foes get screwed. This probably dates back to our Australopithecan past, if not before.

Douglas Keachie

More classy non threatening stuff from a graduate of Claremont Colleges, home of Engineering Excellence, Harvey Mudd, "generally the home of Sierra RudeWhineyFarts " Seems the engineer's here are jealous of a liberal art person making money in sales again.

George Rebane

DougK 1041am - you err again. The engineers here would like nothing better than libaral arts majors having jobs good enough to enable them to join the ranks of taxpayers. Sales is a noble pursuit, for no commerce begins before someone makes a sale.

Douglas Keachie

If Koch invested in solar research instead of political discord, it would make a world of difference. We can do without Brawny Angels wrapped in Quilted Northern. A brief memnonic expressed visually to aid in making correct choices.

Douglas Keachie

Hell froze over. Rebane called Pelline, "noble."

George Rebane

DougK 1051am - Huh?

Douglas Keachie

Might make much better sense for the government to design and build a state of the art, pollution-wise, refinery much closer to Canada and the center of need, MN WS IN etc. Centralized refineries present simple targets, for moma nature and terrorists, and mobs (not likely). Better there should be a scattering of them, rather than one point of concentration.

Douglas Keachie


Dilbert has covered the sales vs engineering area quite well. BTW, what sort of banner would you place on top of One World Trade? "We Are Back!" or, "Sayonara, Al Qaeda"

Corporate attitude to Sales vs Contribution

Douglas Keachie

"huh?" "Sales is a noble pursuit,"

Douglas Keachie

Isn't steel amazing! 400 feet of additional stuff above this little, so it seems to me, beam, on CNN.

George Rebane

DougK 1105am - The connections you make are grist for textbooks and research papers. Among a person's many pursuits may include one that is also considered noble. People with one such arrow in their quiver are not necessarily noble. Stalin built dams, Hitler built autobahns, Mussolini managed railroads, Mao fought the Japanese - all noble pursuits.

Douglas Keachie

Congratulations, you've just won a Nobel Prize!

Gregory

One would never suspect from Keachie's incoherent ramblings that I didn't study Engineering at Harvey Mudd College.

Teaching is more Sales than Science or Engineering is, and Keach is a datum for that.

There are multiple reasons why the refineries don't just pick up and move to the Dakotas, and if Keachie puts his thinking cap on, he may run into them. For one thing, the refineries are already where they are, and where the Chem E's who staff them already have houses. For another, if you put the refinery where Keachie thinks it should go, you still need a pipeline to take the product to the distribution network that is located (amazing coincidence, eh?) where the current refineries are.

Douglas Keachie

Decentralized distributeion is good. So is a shorter pipeline, and so are fresh grads from Harvey Mudd, or at least Cal Tech.

Gregory

Decentralized distibution means trucks and railways, far more expensive than pipelines over the life of the pipeline. But why let reality get in the way of Keachie's imagineering? Fantasy is so much more easy, and fun!

Douglas Keachie

So, a little bit of code here, a little bit there....

Job creation, Mr. Greg.

billy T

Speaking of The Dangerous Sleaze Runneth Over, add bird killers to the enemies list http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/04/30/wind-farms-are-warming-earth-researchers-say/

Douglas Keachie

So Fox News now says that the Earth is warming? Took them long enough.

Douglas Keachie

Took me a while to track down the journal from which the Fox News story got its legs. They used to have peer review, but now that blog is closed and no longer operates. Some source!

Brad Croul

@GeorgeR 29April0909am, The mention I made of the legality of enemies lists is just me wondering what are you are imagining or implying.

Rightwingers and Leftys are constantly vilifying each other through association (with whatever, or whomever).

One man's sleaze is another man's free speech.

George Rebane

BradC 223pm - you point?

One man's tragedy is another progressive's progress.
http://youtu.be/CZ-4gnNz0vc

Gregory

"Job creation, Mr. Greg."

Keachie, I realize a lifelong government employee from Planet Frisco might have a problem with the concept, but make work jobs generated by state political fiats don't create as much prosperity as ones that create the most value. The visible jobs created are dwarfed by the jobs that didn't get created and no one knows about them, or knows why.

A pipeline is the most energy efficient method of transporting gases and fluids long distances. Period.

Michael Anderson

Just to be as clear as possible, the tone I am talking about has only to do with attacking a blog commentator's bread and butter. I think livelihoods should be off limits.

I could care less about ad hominem attacks, rude/crude comments, flame wars, mud fights, and other misbehavior. Those problems are self-correcting, either by the blog admin or the reputation built by the commentator in question.

Douglas Keachie

Looks to me like Chicago is a lot closer to New York, etc, than Texas. You want to pump it all the way down there just to pump it all the way back up again? Brilliant! http://www.google.com/imgres?q=map+us+oil+and+gas+pipelines&hl=en&lr=&sa=X&biw=1600&bih=843&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=8zyurRsQLDtruM:&imgrefurl=http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/compressorMap.html&docid=INT9E4kn31WKtM&imgurl=http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/images/compressorMap.gif&w=907&h=590&ei=HhyfT_zIELLXiQKDr4iMAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&sig=118371527638595069685&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=216&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=113&ty=90">http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/compressorMap.html&docid=INT9E4kn31WKtM&imgurl=http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/images/compressorMap.gif&w=907&h=590&ei=HhyfT_zIELLXiQKDr4iMAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&sig=118371527638595069685&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=216&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=113&ty=90">http://www.google.com/imgres?q=map+us+oil+and+gas+pipelines&hl=en&lr=&sa=X&biw=1600&bih=843&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=8zyurRsQLDtruM:&imgrefurl=http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/compressorMap.html&docid=INT9E4kn31WKtM&imgurl=http://205.254.135.7/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/images/compressorMap.gif&w=907&h=590&ei=HhyfT_zIELLXiQKDr4iMAQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=3&sig=118371527638595069685&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=216&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:69&tx=113&ty=90

Douglas Keachie

Looks like google images doesn't work so Good. USA pipeline oil and gas and pick any.

Gregory

Keachie's signal, if there is one, has been dwarfed by his noise.

Gregory

"I could care less about ad hominem attacks, rude/crude comments, flame wars, mud fights, and other misbehavior. Those problems are self-correcting, either by the blog admin or the reputation built by the commentator in question."

Mike, I will never forget the pain you caused my family with your ugly attacks in the past. My wife took your threats seriously.

Pelline's blog does seem to have lost it's mojo. What's left of the choir is still happy with the sermon, so Pastor Jeff continues preaching.

Douglas Keachie

Greg's THD is exceeding 5%.

Todd Juvinall

Still no condemnation of the ad hominmems from Frisch MichaelA. You are a smart fellow but not so much a fair fellow.

billy T

More sleaze from several Presidents. Today's announcement that home ownership has dipped to the lowest point since 1997 @ 65.4%. Once we were at the unheard of 70%, the envy of the world. 1997? Hmmm. Oh yes, 1997 was right before the shit for brains in the Government came up with the big push to get low lives, liars, cockroaches, and other people who can't rub two nickels together into home ownership. Drawing $970/month on disability? No prob, Bob, here is a nice house for 220k with no money down, interest only, and we will even give you more money than the house is worth. Well, the chickens have come home to roost. The road to hell is paved with feel good ideas. So, we have come full circle. Thanks Uncle Sammies, you rock. Why does everything the government touches turns to shit? Schools, the Post Office, Amtrak, public housing, printing money, Solyndra, solar jobs, Gov't funded green job training centers, our own A.P.P.L.E., the stimulus, TSA, GM bailout, our Energy non policy, etc. Sleaze baby sleaze.

Douglas Keachie

The chickens have been kicked out of the foreclosed hen house, and are living in a culvert.

"that's no mortgage! That's a S'Leaze, that was month to month, until the balloon when up, when they turned up the burners on the interest rates.

Douglas Keachie

"ad hominmems" or is that ad hominmems & M's? Some sort of new candy sold on Polk Street? (not politically correct, but the except makes the rule)

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