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« ‘Me Generation’ looks for work | Main | Discrimination by the numbers »

12 May 2012

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Russ Steele

This is not a conspiracy theory, but may be related. Across the nation ammunition manufacturers report their factories are producing ammunition at record rates and keeping their facilities operating 24/7. "Yet, they still cannot keep up with the demand for bullets for everything from handguns to hunting rifles. Gun store owners and manufacturers claim this is the first time they have ever seen such a drastic shortage in ammunition. According to gun rights activists and enthusiasts, ammunition is a scarce commodity and has been getting scarcer this year." Our local manufacture sells out 18 wheelers loaded with ammo in only hours at regional gun shows. Since Obama was elected, guns and ammo sales have been one of the bright spots in a very dim economy. The people's actions are speaking louder than any politicians words. Citizens are quietly creating an army of davids.

Michael Anderson

"Citizens are quietly creating an army of davids."

Onward to the Great Divide!

Russ Steele

Here is a conspiracy theory reality check: http://youtu.be/CZ-4gnNz0vc

Douglas Keachie

Gee George, some of that is even further out than some of the fringe lefties I keep in FB corral. Yah left out building 7 and Area 51. Out of ammo, buy a bow and arrow. I've seen folks in Golden Gate Park who are more accurate at 200 yards than most ammoed hunters. Yes Virginia, there is an archery range in Golden Gate Park.

Russ Steele

This morning from the Vision to America website: DHS Whistleblower: Obama to Commit ‘Reichstag’ Event to Enact Martial Law

The Obama agents, through the DHS and other assorted colluders, are plotting a major ‘Reichstag’ event to generate racial riots and produce the justification for martial law, delaying the November 2012 elections, possibly indefinitely, a DHS whistleblower informed the Canada Free Press on Tuesday.

The ‘Reichstag Event’ would take the form of a staged assassination attempt against Barack Obama, “carefully choreographed” and manufactured by Obama operatives. It would subsequently be blamed on “white supremacists” and used to enrage the black community to rioting and looting, the DHS source warned.

The Obama administration would then use the violence and chaos they created as justification for the imposition of martial law in major urban cities in America, the creation of DHS checkpoints, restriction of travel, and the indefinite delay of the November 2012 elections.

The Reichstag event refers to a fire started during Hitler’s rise to power. The fire allowed him to grab emergency powers and murder his opposition. Historians have long believed that Hitler started the fire himself, while he blamed it on the Communists.

The anonymous whistleblower elaborated on how the Obama administration is using the Occupy movement, labor unions, and other assorted subversive groups to create massive chaos within the nation.

Conspiracy? Wish full thinking? Right wing fantasy? I am still troubled by the 450 million rounds of 40 mil ammo. Why does the government need enough bullets to kill every person in America and still have some for a second shot?

Steven Frisch

OMG...a Reichstag Event? GIve me a break. You guys are so far around the bend that you could not pour the piss out of your boots if the instructions were written on the sole. I am buying tin foil futures.

Michael Anderson

"I am buying tin foil futures."

Excellent advice. Would that be Alcoa, or do you have a supplier further up the chain? I want in!

Douglas Keachie

"Why does the government need enough bullets to kill every person in America and still have some for a second shot? "

Because all the boomers were trained to duck and cover.

Looks to me like someone trying to take advantage of an unfortunate event that may happen due to natural right wing causes.

Steven Frisch

Michael, I don't think there are any American aluminum foil manufacturers left. The Chinese and Russians bought them all out in order to create a Tin Foil Hat gap. Fortunately, General Buck Turgidsen, USMC retired, now with the Cement Hill Militia, is working on. plan to make quilted tin foil hats from recycled candy wrappers.

Brad Croul

The buying of bullets could be a sign that the recession is over.

Or, the rednecks and hillbilly tweakers are in an arms(ammo) race with the government.

Or, it could be a redneck commodities hedge. Instead of buying lead and brass futures, they buy bullets.

Or, "The ammunition shortage is a nationwide phenomenon. An ABC News story in August said departments across the United States are reporting reductions in training because of shortages and delays caused by the 1 billion bullets that troops training for action in Iraq and Afghanistan fire every year." (this from "way back" in 2007)

Read more: http://www.heraldextra.com/news/article_6238231f-a0b8-58c2-be48-cffb0974831a.html#ixzz1ugzx7aFy

Gregory

Four years ago a common left wing delusion was that the evil Bush and Cheney were going to just seize power rather than allow elections that would not include them. At least the right wing worries has a Reichstag event as a trigger.

I wasn't worried about the Bushies, as weren't trying to limit the 2nd amendment and fighting for civilians being armed is counterproductive to the establishment of a police state. I sincerely doubt there's any real conspiracy behind this one, though I wouldn't be surprised if there was central planning to handle large scale civil unrest that would give any nervous nellie civil libertarian reason to lie awake at night and wonder out loud during the day.

David King

Boo, boo from the Koch brothers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc_3wsLd01s

THEY'RE WATCHING YOU!!!

LOL!

Todd Juvinall

I'll bet a buck that SteveF and MichaelA think there was a dude on the grassy knoll and that Kevin Costners film JFK was a fact. What a hoot!

Michael Anderson

And I am currently reading Todd Juvinall's Mission, The Story of a Shoe Factory Boy.

What a boot!

Michael Anderson

Gregory wrote: "At least the right wing worries has a Reichstag event as a trigger."

Cheney's trashing of the 1st and 4th Amendments was bad enough. But if you had been monitoring http://www.legitgov.org/ during the Bush presidency, Lori Price was calling out false flag operations every other day, of which probably 1 in 10 were plausible.

Perhaps you were living in another country at the time.

Steven Frisch

Never believed Bush and Cheney were just going to seize power, never believed anyone was on the grassy knoll. Todd, perhaps if you are going to ascribe conspiracy theories to those of us who post here you could refer to a specific post. All Michael and I have to do to prove our point is say "see above".

Todd Juvinall

You two are sooo funny. Always claiming plausible deniability. Tin hats for you two? Call 1800-IAMaknut for further details of grassy knolls..

Gregory

So Frisch, of the Bush Derangement Syndrome sufferers you knew, how many did you make snide comments about? Any tinfoil hat comments for them?

Gregory

MA, "legitgov.org" is tinfoil hat central. Yes, I think we were in two different countries, if you think they had any rooting in reality. The solution to virtually all the constitutional complaints in the Bush years would have been for the Congress to remove war powers from the administration, well within the power of Pelosi and Reid after 2006. Instead, the war powers live on through the entire Obama years.

Tell me, Mike, what do you think about Fast & Furious? How many guns should the Obama administration have allowed to go to Mexican drug gangs to prove how bad it was? How many fibs should the Attorney General be allowed to give Congress before being brought up on perjury charges? How many deaths are acceptable collateral damage?

Steven Frisch

Darn, Gregory, you should here me go off on the OWS people. Do you seriously believe that I would temper my comments to people who are to my 'left'? I am a pretty straight forward guy. Did you notice me taking a certain former Nevada County Supervisor candidate who I would say is to the left of me to task for his conspiracy theories? The problem is I never met a single person who professed to believe that "Bush and Cheney were going to just seize power rather than allow elections that did not include them." But here the conspiracy theories are a dime a dozen.

Steven Frisch

Ooops, typing too fast...you should 'hear'.....

Gregory

Frisch, when you took the unnamed leftist Supervisor candidate "to task", did that include any phrase similar to "You guys are so far around the bend that you could not pour the piss out of your boots if the instructions were written on the sole. I am buying tin foil futures"?

Please, I'd love to see what you consider taking someone to the left to task.

Steven Frisch

Really Greg, you seem to have nothing better to do. Perhaps yu should go find it yourself over at Pelline's blog. I know you cruise the site regularly since you often comment about it here.

By the way, I'm amazed that you did not recognize my LBJ paraphrase! Even I can't come up with colorful phrase like that on my own.

Since you guys regularly call me a communist, socialist, fascist and collectivist here, and in Todd's case call me a criminal without anybody here objecting, I figure there are no limits.

Michael Anderson

"How many guns should the Obama administration have allowed to go to Mexican drug gangs to prove how bad it was?"

I'll see your Fast & Furious and raise you a Valerie Plame.

Are you really trying to equate the unconstitutional acts of the Bush administration with anything that has occurred during the Obama administration? Seriously?

Todd Juvinall

Valerie Plame? Amazing comment there MichaelA. Seems she was outed for the liar she is and her husband was quite the liar as well (yellow cake and I don't mean edible). They got their 15 minutes of fame and the best the persecutor (a republican) could get was Scooter for alledged perjury on another matter he sinply forgot. You libs crack me up. Fasy and Durious is leaving dead Mexican men, women and children dead across Mexico and the best you have is Plame! I know we are winning the battle of ideas now, thanks.

Oh and SteveF, I have probed my memory banks and cannot come up with me calling you a criminal. Point me to the comment please.

Michael Anderson

Todd wrote: "Fasy and Durious is leaving dead Mexican men, women and children dead across Mexico"

No, that would be Nixon's War on Drugs doing that. Perhaps we should declare victory and move on.

And I'll put you down as a "yes" regarding the question of whether for political reasons it is OK to out a covert CIA officer.

David King

And I'll raise you this Michael!

The New Holocaust Deniers

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-new-holocaust-deniers/?singlepage=true

billy T

What a joy to come home after a long wearisome day and read the delightful comments on my beloved RR. First and foremost, we may never know for sure who shot JR Ewing from the grassy knoll. The TV series Dallas is long gone, but the conspiracy theories continue to this day. I think it was Bush's fault, no doubt. Gov. Bush claims he was in Austin at the time but he could have slipped into Dallas unnoticed. It could have been his librarian wife Laura that did the dastardly deed. Laura appears so sweet on the outside, but who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Southern women. Scientific facts reveals unequivocally that it was not Laura because Laura missed by a mile on her first try. Luckily Barbara was with her daughter-in-law and had a sensible back up plan. The down to earth Barbara can put your left eye out at 201 yards with the Derringer she keeps concealed in her panty hose. Her husband George Herbert Walker Bush supplied the ammo with his close ties with the CIA. Yep, its all Bush's fault.

Gregory

"raise you a Valerie Plame"

MA may have forgotten that it wasn't Cheney that mentioned Plame to the press, it was Richard Armitage, who was not a Bush partisan.

The late, great Christopher Hitchens wrote multiple pieces on the Plame affair, none of them kind to Plame or Wilson:

"[B]oth pillars of the biggest scandal-mongering effort yet mounted by the "anti-war" movement—the twin allegations of a false story exposed by Wilson and then of a state-run vendetta undertaken against him and the lady wife who dispatched him on the mission—are in irretrievable ruins. The truth is the exact polar opposite. The original Niger connection was both authentic and important, and Wilson's utter failure to grasp it or even examine it was not enough to make Karl Rove even turn over in bed. All the work of the supposed "outing" was inadvertently performed by Wilson's admirer Robert Novak."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/07/case_closed.single.html


The most pithy quote Hitchens dug up regarding the whole affair is "The disclosures about Armitage, gleaned from interviews with colleagues, friends and lawyers directly involved in the case, underscore one of the ironies of the Plame investigation: that the initial leak, seized on by administration critics as evidence of how far the White House was willing to go to smear an opponent, came from a man who had no apparent intention of harming anyone."

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2006/08/plame_out.single.html


In short, Mike, it's amazing you're still carrying water for Wilson & Plame. There never was a there, there. I guess Bush Derangement Syndrome and all the conspiracy theories woven by the left takes years to recover from.

Todd Juvinall

MichaelA is not satisfied with blaming Bush, George, not the greenery, for all the ills, he goes back to Nixon! That is why the lefty conspiracy nuts are soooo funny. The "war on drugs" has been going on since Coca Cola had to stop putting cocaine in their soda pop. Or, since the Chinese had smoke shops of heroin (in almost all gold mining towns). No MichaelA, th drug wars have ravaged the populace way before you can blame Nixon or Nancy Reagan or Bush.

I personally never used an "illegal" drug so I have done my part to stop the violence and the murders the "illegal" drug trade has done to Mexico and all points south of the USA. I suspect the old TV series "Miami ice" was based on some idea about the drug trade, ya think?

The drug murders in Mexico and before that in Colombia are fueled by American drug users because that is where the money comes from. The killers want the money. If you ever used cocaine or heroin or even MJ grown and transported here from the places south of our border then you in my view are complicit in the anarchy and murder of many innocent people. The thirst for mind altering substances is a scourge on the American people and out country in general. Can you imagine how much more stable and rich America would be if people stopped getting high? How many more opportunities would be created if Americans did not sit around in a stupor of smoke and needles and spoons? No, I am no prude and I am a realist about the use f drugs, illegal ones, and I see the problem it has created and it certainly is not Nixon's fault. It is the drug users fault. To blame anyone except the weak-kneed users is ridiculous. So, when I read the stories about the murders and beheading done by the Zeta group in Mexico, I know it is because American users caused it by demand for the substances. Nothing less nothing more. The modern Capone's abound "down Mexico way".

Gregory

"Since you guys regularly call me a communist, socialist, fascist and collectivist here, and in Todd's case call me a criminal without anybody here objecting, I figure there are no limits."


By my recollection, I've not written those things, Frisch, and in weak moments I think I've even thrown in an objection or two on your behalf for some of them, so why throw them in my face?

"I figure there are no limits"? Frisch, as the CEO of a sweet little non-profit spinning off a six figure salary for you, you should realize there are always limits.

Michael Anderson

Cheney was the mastermind. Armitage was glued to his hip.

Plame's CIA relationship was compromised, and people she used in other countries to help the US were probably killed.

I guess everyone's OK with that.

And don't throw Hitchens at me, as brilliant a mind that he possessed. At the end of the day he was a nicotine-stained, Walker-engorged, highly functional addict, always grumpy and once decided on a subject never able to change his mind.

His unrequited rage against only certain aspects of 9/11, and his abject hate for Joe Wilson, clouded his judgement (already clouded by fermented grape and scotch whiskey) to the point where I stopped reading him completely in 2004.

Michael Anderson

Todd,

The only difference between Hitchens and people who "sit around in a stupor of smoke and needles and spoons" is that Hitchens' drugs are legal.

Addiction is a medical problem, it has nothing to do with crime. Once you remove the illegality of substances and treat the disease, you will be able to avoid the type of violence now happening in Mexico.

When someone blames what's happening in Mexico on Eric Holder, it reveals a prejudice that has nothing to do with drugs or guns.

Michael A.

Todd Juvinall

MichaelA you are certainly in fantasyland. You have it all backwards but I do enjoy reading your "stories" of unreality. Amazing.

Oh, and that wascally Cheney, he skated because he was not the source of your fantasy but you just believe that "conspiracy". What a hoot!

Michael Anderson

Todd, I am here for your enjoyment, as you are for mine. Happy Mothers Day.

David King

Todd said:

"To blame anyone except the weak-kneed users is ridiculous. So, when I read the stories about the murders and beheading done by the Zeta group in Mexico, I know it is because American users caused it by demand for the substances. Nothing less nothing more. The modern Capone's abound "down Mexico way"."

Well said Todd.

I do however place a lot of the blame on the breakdown of the traditional family structure.
With fewer fathers at home to bring Thor’s mighty hammer down on junior’s head when he gets out of line, we are ending up with moral relativism and an easily manipulated younger generation.

I believe that to be deliberate.

Steven Frisch

Greg, a careful reading of this blog, along with Russ's, would show that I have on several occasions recommended that rules be instituted that would increase civility and improve the dialogue. These entreaties have been consistently rebuffed, usually with the ludicrous critique that this is somehow censorship (showing a remarkable ignorance of what a constitutional right is for a bunch of people who claim to be constitutionalists). As long as you and others regularly ascribe craven motives to my opinions I will respond by pointing out the cravenness of those who post here.


Michael Anderson

David King wrote: "With fewer fathers at home to bring Thor’s mighty hammer down on junior’s head when he gets out of line, we are ending up with moral relativism and an easily manipulated younger generation."

Mr. King, thank you for providing such a keen example of 19th century backward thinking to prove how far we have to go before we will ever get out from under provincial and Puritan views that continue to hobble forward progress in this country.

The good news is that the Millennials, aka Generation Y, are on their way, and they are going to so thoroughly repudiate antiquated thinking such as Mr. King's that someday soon we will compare what he wrote this morning to what some men believed at the beginning of the 20th century when asked if women should vote.

Mr. King, if you are truly interested in solving the drug problem, rather thank clonking junior on the head so he'll put down the bong, read the views of some people (mothers!) who have actually lived the nightmare that is the War on Drugs:

http://www.anewpathsite.org/

http://www.anewpathsite.org/momsunited1.html

David King

Greg, a careful reading of this blog, along with Russ's, would show that I have on several occasions recommended that rules be instituted that would increase civility and improve the dialogue.

Like when you called us "crackers"?
Is that what you mean?

George Rebane

Assessing someone's ideological affectation and/or political affiliation by using labels proudly accepted by those so self-declared and those continuously published in the open literature is not "craven" in any accepted sense of the word. The labeled may disagree, but that is also the sum and stuff of the debate on these pages.

Steven Frisch

Great George, then no one here should have ANY objection when I say that the policies they profess are fascist, racists, bigoted and selfish. If you point is that the truth is the ultimate defense, and you believe you have a monopoly on the truth, I am just as free to believe the same. So Greg, D.King et al should just grin and bear it.

David King


Michael Anderson Said:(a bunch of nasty stuff, but, I forgive you!)

Thanks for the links Michael, they are truly enlightening.

http://www.anewpathsite.org/

…and look what I found.
Go to the Links tab.
Drug Policy Alliance
Moms United to End the War on Drugs
http://www.drugpolicy.org/about-us/leadership/board-directors

Good old George “Holocaust helper” Soros.

You really should keep better company Michael!
It’s my sincere hope that someday you’ll put it all together.

Love and kisses,

Dave

Douglas Keachie

This is obviously too much fun, but I have work to do, so I'll just sign in with the question, "do tin foil helmets protect from Cheney shotgun blasts?"

George Rebane

SteveF 1012am - "... and you believe you have a monopoly on the truth ..." Wherever do you come up with these one liners Steve?! I, of all people, have written extensively in these pages, using lay and technical language, to attest and explain how our individual perceptions of truth and logic arise and are maintained.

And, as always, you are most free, nay, invited to explain how "the policies (I/conservatives)profess are fascist, racists, bigoted and selfish." And as we see, these are very pejorative terms that you like to dredge up, no one I know of would label themselves with such. However, the labels which many of your beliefs and supported policies invite on a broad basis, those labels are proudly worn by millions across the world.

And to my knowledge, you have never defined any of these terms in terms of a reasoned debate - they appear to be applied on a gratuitous and ad hoc basis to anything you happen to disapprove. I think that is the difference that we need to keep in mind when labeling.

Gregory

Frisch, you regularly violated the rules you wanted Rebane to institute on other blogs, and here. What a bloody hypocrite you were, and are, just wanting to boss other people around while patting yourself on the back.

MA, the reason no one was ever prosecuted for the Plame outing is that not only was the mention innocent by someone who was NOT a Bush partisan, she had last been in the field so long before that she no longer qualified as a field operative under the Act that forbids the disclosure.

TJ, "Scooter" Libby didn't just forget, he fell on his sword to keep Cheney free of an election season embarrassment. Libby did lie in what was legally an obstruction of justice. However, the special persecutor knew Armitage was the source of the leak even before the investigation started, so it was political theater from the start.

Todd Juvinall

Greg, as usual you are correct and you keep us in the proper facts. I am fascinated by the Frisch and MichaelA's though. How is it after all that has transpired on the Plame issue that MA could still makes up his facts? I mean, come on MA, it is all right there to read ad nauseum.

Frisch though is the real disingenuous poster. He does trash the conservatives constantly and name calls en masse anyone he disagrees with then cries like a baby when he receives like. That to me is a shown of immaturity I see in 13 year olds. How his brain can twist a persons support of the very Constitution he lives under into a fascist needs further review by a psychiatrist. If a self proclaimed smarty like Frisch can actually justify a twisted sense of freedom into Mussolini like reality, then no wonder he belongs to the 20% liberal nutty group of Americans.

billy T

"do tin foil helmets protect from Cheney shotgun blasts?"

Posted by: Douglas Keachie | 13 May 2012 at 11:15 AM . Douglas, the answer is obvious. No, tin foil hats do not protect one from Mr. Cheney's shotgun blast unless you are kissing your rear end goodbye. Scientific evidence shows Mr. Cheney only shoots lawyers in the gluteus maximus (a very large muscle) whether one be a Republican or Democrat. Tin foil hats only protect the little head from shot gun blasts. I am still waiting for that loud popping sound which occurs when our liberal friends remove their heads from their asses.

Todd Juvinall

This link will ake you to the latest massacre of Mexican by Mexicans of the drug trade. Read it MichaelA and maybe then you may agree the American drug users could save some lives if they just said NO.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/13/us-mexico-slayings-idUSBRE84C08420120513

Michael Anderson

"Read it MichaelA and maybe then you may agree the American drug users could save some lives if they just said NO."

If alcohol were again made illegal, the same thing would be happening between alcohol cartels. I can't believe you really think that if Americans would just stop taking drugs, these problems would disappear. It's never going to happen. Never ever.

So I'll mark you down as a "yes" for supporting the continued American gulag for drug users (except for alcohol, for which the Super Bowl was invented in order to sell tanker cars of the stuff). "Alice in Wonderland" is actually credible compared to this insanity.

The War on Drugs. The War on Terror. The War on Crime. Three great ways to spend money. In other countries, the kids who are qualified go to college for free. In this country, we send our kids to prison for free, but loan kids money for college (just recently topping $1 trillion in debt) so they're in debt up to their ears for the first 1/4 of their working lives.

Complete madness.

Michael Anderson

We'll have to agree to disagree on the Plame affair. Political theatre indeed.

Next stop, Abu Ghraib.

Gregory

"When someone blames what's happening in Mexico on Eric Holder, it reveals a prejudice that has nothing to do with drugs or guns."

The only thing I blamed Holder and Fast and Furious for is the lying to Congress and the knowing delivery of about 2000 guns to the drug runners in a completely failed (meaning not one success) attempt to trace them to the kingpins they thought they would find. One Federal agent with a name (do you know it?) was killed with one, and very possibly other Feds, not to mention American and Mexican innocents.

I'm the guy who thinks most all drugs should be legalized. Re-legalized, actually. Even codeine was once OTC. Great for coughs. Even heroin, developed as a remedy for morphine addiction. The illegality isn't what keeps me from shooting up. Anyone who wants it can get it, so what's the point.

So Mike, your premise is again BS.

And back to the Plame affair, you're a perfect example of Frisch's double standard. Steele mentions a story about a Reichstag rerun that some (not Russ) say is happening. Meaning one supposed whistleblower, and Frisch goes ballistic calling into question the sanity of Rebane and Steele. Now you come on board making the statement that Armitage and Cheney were conspiring to ruin Plame for political gain, with absolutely no corroborating evidence, or even rhetoric from any player, major or minor, and we hear... silence.

As the judge wrote when throwing the Wilson's civil suit out of court, "The alleged means by which defendants chose to rebut Mr. Wilson's comments and attack his credibility may have been highly unsavory. But there can be no serious dispute that the act of rebutting public criticism, such as that levied by Mr. Wilson against the Bush Administration's handling of prewar foreign intelligence, by speaking with members of the press is within the scope of defendants' duties as high-level Executive Branch officials. Thus, the alleged tortious conduct, namely the disclosure of Mrs. Wilson's status as a covert operative, was incidental to the kind of conduct that defendants were employed to perform".

Tell me, Mike, if your wife was a covert CIA operative, would you be writing incendiary op-eds about a junket to her (in the Wilson's case, former) turf that you went on, that she recommended you for? Do you really think an Iraqi nuclear expert would go to a small country whose only export of value was yellowcake uranium, and not chat about uranium with the locals? The intentional suspension of disbelief here is amazing.

Todd Juvinall

If the facts don't fit MichaelA's screed, use the screed. Amazing!

billy T

This whole Fast and Furious thing can be put to bed as soon as one question is answered. Who ordered Fast and Furious. Simple question with a simple answer. Congress is not doing a political witch hunt. They are not even asking about the details of the operation. They just have 1-3 questions that need to be answered. The word Stonewall comes to mind. What,its been 10 months of repeated requests and still not one person can say who ordered this. Was it some lone supervisor off in the Netherlands? Who was consulted and who gave the final ok. Reminds me of the time a bar room bouncer with no special education suddenly appears at the White House and is hired to pour over FBI files of Republicans during the Clinton Administration. I watched the hearings and questioning of the bouncer on C-Span. He did not know who hired him, who called him out of the Mid West, and who was his contact. He just magically got a phone call to come work for the White House Legal Department. To this day nobody knows who hired a bouncer and what were his credentials to pour over classified FBI documents of the opposing political party. Its a great mystery to this day. Probably the same with Fast and Furious. Nobody knows nothing....nobody authorized it, nobody knew about it, nobody became aware until after the fact. It just happened. Shit happens I suppose. And you wonder why there are so many conspiracy theories swirling in the air?? I am NOT a birther, but Obama's SS number was issued for a resident of Vermont. Red flag? You bet. Leaving the entire birther thing aside, what will historians do when writing about our President's teen and college years?? Did he apply for financial aid? Why the big hush hush about his time at tiny Occidental College in LA? I don't really dwell on those things, but we know a heck of a lot more about Mitt Romney's minute details of his past that our mystery man President. About the only thing we know about Columbia was he smoked pot and snorted some coke and was unhappy, big deal. He was billed as a community organizer as his qualifications for holding the highest office in the land, but what exactly did he do during his stint as a community organizer? For how long? Sure, he provided legal advice for Acorn and said Acorn will "always have a seat at the table", but what did he do as a community organizer? Hold car washes and bake sales? And people will say I am a racist or flat earther for daring to think like a historian. Can you tell me one President in the post Industrial Revolution that we know so little about and why normal public and private records have magically disappeared or are off limits? That in itself feeds conspiracy theories.

George Rebane

billyT 934pm - my money is that your questions will go unanswered in the interval during which the answers will matter. The Grand Collective Left, without any organization or conspiracy, will instinctively act on their own separate volitions to guarantee the silence while their nationwide and ever alert acolytes vilify those who dare ask. The wagons have been circled tightly enough to give new meaning to a hermetical seal.

Michael Anderson

Gregory, thanks for pointing out how and why the 1st Amendment is only valid for some Americans. You can read this if you'd like: http://www.thenation.com/blog/156354/plamegate-finale-we-were-right-they-were-wrong ...but I'm positive that it's not going to change your mind. Just like anything you say is not going to change my mind.

The Plame affair is about the bigger lie that brought us the Iraq War, an illegal war that came complete with unpunished war crimes. But hey, what's wrong with bending the constitution a little if it's for the Greater Good, eh?

Like I said, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks.

Gregory

"Gregory, thanks for pointing out how and why the 1st Amendment is only valid for some Americans." 11:05, m anderson

Amendment 1

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

If Mike is trying to now say Plame and Wilson were somehow denied a freedom of speech or press, we may now have a complete break with reality. Did Bush and Cheney somehow cause Oliver Stone not to be the one to do the movie version? Or maybe cause George Clooney to lose out to Sean Penn for the Joe Wilson role?

Michael Anderson

I like "a complete break w/ reality." It sounds so dangerous! (-;

Todd Juvinall

The Nation is the farthest left magazine in America, right up against the Daily Worker. Here is some wiki on it. Sorry to say the Plame's were not exonerated as your link stated, but they did make some money by lying, a lefty tactic par excellence.

Here is the Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nation

Gregory

Mike, you made a clear inference claiming the Wilson's 1st amendment rights were somehow abridged. With books written, one being made into an almost major motion picture, numerous op-eds and countless interviews, I'm at a loss to understand what you were thinking.

And you have yet to justify your charge that Armitage and Cheney were co-conspirators in the outing by Armitage. Was that in the movie?

"We were right and they were wrong" isn't a reasoned discussion.

Michael Anderson

Geez Greg, what part of "I'm not going to discuss this with you anymore" don't you get?

Break out your Google keyboard and search for people a whole lot smarter than I am to go deeper into the claims I have posited, if you really care (which I suspect you don't). But the bottom line is that I could care less what you think about the Plame issue, and my mind is closed on the issue, like a steel trap.

I'm not looking for a reasoned discussion with you on the Plame affair. Deal with it.

Gregory

I don't care whether you want a reasoned discussion or not, Mike. You made a bizarre claim that I was "pointing out how and why the 1st Amendment is only valid for some Americans" in a hit and run.

So how were the Wilson's 1st amendment rights violated? Did the Obama administration help once the Bush was out the door?

Michael Anderson

Greg, my usual tactic with you--when you become tedious and overbearing--is to just ignore you and move on.

Not gonna do that this time. This goes against my better judgement, but I guess I got kinda pissed off when, on another thread, you questioned Ryan's educational credentials and technical background.

I haven't seen him comment here since. I understand that it takes a lot for Mr. Rebane to remove inappropriate commentary, so I'm going to call you out on that.

So let's get some things straight:

1. I'm done talking with you about the Plame affair. You can ask all the questions you want and they will go unanswered. Get it?

2. Anyone should be able to comment on any blog about any topic, without have to justify their educational background or be vetted by the likes of you. Stick to the subject matter--if someone floats an idea that is bankrupt, call out that idea, not the person's background or education.

3. Stop being such an arrogant bully.


Thanks...M.

George Rebane

Gregory 1109am - I'm afraid now that MichaelA has brandished his "steel trap", you will henceforth be attempting to reason with an echo chamber. A short perusal of RR reveals that progressives often resort to this handy appliance at some point in the discussion. And whenever they do, for all intents and purposes the discussion is over. Reason is no match for a steel trap.

However all is not lost, for the independent reader, whose mind is not yet so tightly clamped, will be able to review the progress of such exchanges right up to the instant of the sharp report of unyielding steel from one of the parties, signalling the end of discourse. MichaelA did all a favor by the timely and visible springing of his own steel trap on the matter.

In the final analysis, it is, after all, that open-minded audience that you are really addressing with such debates that in reality are performance art.

Gregory

It appears that in MA's world, someone who stands up to him when he's being an arrogant bully is a worse arrogant bully.

Your "Gregory, thanks for pointing out how and why the 1st Amendment is only valid for some Americans" was arrogant snark without support. Arrogant bullying incarnate. Leave it to the professionals like Maddow.

Sorry, but when an English Ed/English Lit./Rhetoric/Linguistics student who is now somehow an authority on tech and math education starts making pronouncements about science and math education, and apparently denigrating other views as being mere "rote", it's reasonable to talk about background. George asked the question, I supplied a couple of answers.

Math education is serious, and there are SEVERE performance problems continuing in a number of local schools. The defenders of the status quo of youth graduating from our schools with compromised futures should be met with extreme approbation (...one of your past phrases, thought you'd like it).

Gregory

Let's go back to Mike Anderson's half-dozen conspiracy theories (all quotes from his 13 May 2012 at 07:06 AM). He says he doesn't want to discuss it, and he certainly doesn't have to:

"Cheney was the mastermind. Armitage was glued to his hip."

As far as I can tell, this was created out of whole cloth. If you want to believe in a conspiracy to ruin the Wilson's, you have to think Armitage was in on it, since he was the guy who managed to first mention to a journalist that Mrs. Wilson (he apparently didn't say Plame) was CIA. Most sober observers never saw Armitage as a Cheney crony.

"Plame's CIA relationship was compromised, and people she used in other countries to help the US were probably killed."

I'd say her relationship was compromised the moment her husband wrote a prominent Op-Ed in the New York Times ripping into US policy based on his junket to her old territory, made after her recommending him for the job.

It's been years since this happened, if anyone was killed why don't we know about it? And if it was a Bush conspiracy to ruin the Wilson's and violate their constitutional rights, why didn't the Obama justice department step in when the Bush cabal left town?

"I guess everyone's OK with that."

More Anderson snark. Sorry, Mike, you can't just spout nonsense and then smear others with it.

Todd Juvinall

George is right on the mark with his view of the lefty taking their ball home when they don't get their way. When confronted with the truth the left just won't beliebeve it. Then they cry about partisanship. The reason there is partisanship is because the left creates it not the right, well mos of the time anyway. When you have bare-assed facts like the Plame/Wilson hogwash (I think they made a few bucks on the book and they are now in the 1%) you have to wonder how it is a human with a brain can even make the false connections to speak their support. The other tactic of a lefty who has a blog is to "moderate" those they disagree with. We have seen these tactics time and again even locally. But hey, we on the right and some in the mushy middle like more speech not less so usually we encourage debate as George does here. When the non-aligned read these debates they must be able to see how the spoiled brats of the left cry and go home, never to speak or debate again. Or well, maybe until they get over their low blood sugar attacks.

Michael Anderson

George, on your blog where labels reign supreme, and everyone is fit conveniently into one simple category of non-complex political beliefs, it is impossible that someone would end a conversation for any other reason except that someone got the best of them.

George wrote: "However all is not lost, for the independent reader, whose mind is not yet so tightly clamped, will be able to review the progress of such exchanges right up to the instant of the sharp report of unyielding steel from one of the parties."

The trap is also sprung when the tedium becomes too great, the bad manners too bad, and the whole discussion has stopped going anywhere. It's ridiculous to assume that the Plame affair, and the Iraq War for that matter, can be adequately debated on this blog. There's just not enough air in the room for someone like myself to maneuver without being pigeon-holed and pejoratively tagged as an (name-calling adjective) liberal or a (name-calling adjective) progressive, of which I am neither.

As I've said before, there is plenty of information out there supporting my POV regarding the disrespect shown for the 1st Amendment, the rule of law, and what types of behavior make up a functional national security policy, surrounding the Plame affair and the Iraq War. I'm just done trying to provide it in this forum.

Frisch's tactic is to come back with labels of fascist, racist, and bigot, but I choose not to go that route. I don't think he's a bad person for doing that, I just don't see the point.

You may have noticed that I've been absent over here for some time. The reasons mentioned above are why. I thought I'd give it another shot, but I see not much has changed.

I enjoy your tech articles very much, so maybe I'll just stick with commenting on those. BTW, I posted some links regarding broadband during a recent educational thread (CENIC/CVIN) and didn't get a single response or question about it.

It's very difficult to navigate over here with the current signal-to-noise ratio. You might take a hint from Lars Larsen, he puts so-called liberals at the head of the line and treats them with respect and dignity. If they say stupid things, he gracefully lets them hang themselves, without the rhetorical flourishes about how progressives are destroying everything beautiful in the world. Perhaps that's why the Lars show is carried on over 200 stations across the country, and this blog carries the same 10 ideologue commentators who keep saying the same thing over and over again.

Gregory

"Frisch's tactic is to come back with labels of fascist, racist, and bigot, but I choose not to go that route."

Since we've established our politics aren't that far off, you have to resort to "arrogant bully" when you're not able to persuade. You also had to just resort to dismissing the words of Hitchens because of his drinking, and not because of any flaws of his arguments; that, my friend, is textbook argumentum ad hominem, one of the classic logical fallacies. As is your decision to label me an arrogant bully for hitting you back with facts and inconvenient questions.

If you have the right to say "the king is a fink", that doesn't negate the right of all of the king's horses and all the king's men to respond with "the knave is a jerk" in the normal performance of their duties. And that's the core of the Wilson/Plame issue.

Once again, if my wife was a covert CIA operative, I know I'd not risk blowing her cover by writing an Op-Ed in the NY Times blasting her boss's boss's boss regarding what they paid for me to go see on her old turf on her recommendation, because I didn't manage to see what others saw (including a bipartisan congressional investigation who thought Wilson's own report supported inferences of Iraqi interest in Niger yellowcake. That's essentially one of the inconvenient points MA danced around by refusing to respond to anything the apostate comrade Hitchens wrote after he went off the reservation. Apparently, Hitchen's lubricated words in The Nation and Vanity Fair were welcomed, just not his lubricated anti-totalitarian Leftist words that refused to bow to the establishment left's apologist embrace of Islamic fascism in the middle east when the war once again got hot.

I'm going to guess that Mike was one of the few who actually paid to see Plame's "Fair Game" made into a movie. It cost a reputed $22 million to make and earned less than $10 million at the box office, so it doesn't look like there'll be a sequel.


Michael Anderson

I didn't even know that the Plame affair was made into a movie until I read about it here, FWIW.

And I'm sure I won't waste my time with it either, since docudramas ain't my cup of tea.

billy T

Mr. Anderson: "since docudramas ain't my cup of tea." By Golly, Mr. Anderson, now you are speaking my language. Kudos to you sir. All this time I have been feeling like a dummy and a neanderthal cause I say "ain't" and "got no" and hey....hey, isn't "I ain't got no satisfaction" a double negative? I forget. Its been quite a spell since I slept with my high school English teacher and those grammatical rules were not the reason I aced the class. But, I digress for the hundredth time. I thought Mrs. Plume-Wilson was a CIA desk clerk, never a real operative. So a clerk got outed by Novak and Co. Should not have happened, but it did. Loose lips sink ships. Don't know why it is so important unless it ranks right up there with the great conspiracies of our time such as man never walked on the moon, the Jews caused 911, the check is in the mail, and the Mercedes is in the shop. I understand you are not particularly partial to labels, but it is only a minor distraction to the gist of Dr. Rebane's commentaries. I know I should not call libbowels "libbowels" or "dumbshits" dumbshits, but old habits are hard to break and sometimes these short labels say exactly in one word what I am struggling to convey. I know it ain't right...it is sooo left. Yet I am still evolving into the man Phil Donahue would be proud of and real women avoid like the plague.

Michael Anderson

Billy wrote: "Yet I am still evolving into the man Phil Donahue would be proud of and real women avoid like the plague."

Oh Billy, you will be so so surprised. Putting the seat down is like catnip, trust me on this. And if you can cook the meals, and clean the house, and shop for groceries, and shuttle kids around? Dude, you will be golden. I guarantee it. It's actually scary what this level of cooperation can achieve in a relationship.

I know, Phil is kinda creepy, but put him out of your mind and go fill the dishwasher while time is still on your side.

Todd Juvinall

It sounds like BillyT is a man's man (women like that) and MichaelA is a metrosexual. LOL!

Michael Anderson

Todd splorted out indiscriminately: "It sounds like BillyT is a man's man (women like that) and MichaelA is a metrosexual. LOL!"

Todd, next time you are headed down to Sac for your regular "look at me! look at me!" TSA exercise, please give me a call.

I'd like to see how a "man's man" struts his stuff in front of minimum wage Filipino-American grandpas.

David King

You guys are killing me! :)

Todd Juvinall

MihaelA, you comment is kind of creepy man. Sheesh! When I go through he TSA detector women faint and and men are envious. Just accept it. I know you metrosexuals have a problem with the lack of testosterone but call Barry Bonds, he can help. LOL!

billy T

Michael, thanks for the tips. I can always learn something new every day. A woman is one of the most beautiful and majestic and mysterious creatures this side of Paradise. Partnership and open dialogue is important. Winter before last the little lady wanted a big garden for collard greens and other weeds to eat. We went over the finances and couldn't afford to fix the old one lung rototiller Gramps welded together 75 years ago. So, we discussed the options in a calm exchange of what ifs and together came up with a solution. She grew out her toenails for months until they got real long. I unstuck the old plow that had been a sittin out in the back pasture for decades and hitched her up to it. When her toenails sunk deep into the soil and she pulled and pulled until the plow broke ground, my heart soared. Gosh, she looked so beautiful and I never had loved her or appreciated that woman more than at that moment. Good communication and having common goals is the key.

Douglas Keachie

A toe-toe-tiller! What will you think of next?

Gregory

billy T, this side of Paradise would be Oroville. Your plow may still be there.

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