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« The John Henry Law | Main | A Meditation for the Fourth »

01 July 2012


billy T

I have just one thing to say about the Liberal Mind: If I had a dollar for every time that CAPITALISM was blamed for the problems caused by GOVERNMENT, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap.

billy T

President Obama has spent his whole life creating straw men and then proceeds to slay them. Kinda like what libs do when they reject logic and pull the straw men out of their left hip.

Steven Frisch

Hey Joe McCarthy, how about you post the original message I put up, linking to several instances of right wing organizations, thinkers, and media leaders seeking to "reframe" or shut down what they perceive to be left wing messages.

If you can't see my key point, which is that there is not a dimes worth of difference between Brent Bozell and David Brock, then I guess you will never get it. What I am objecting to is your serial hypocrisy. The Powell memo, the Brock memo--Media Matters, Media Research---same thing, different ideology. Yet you trust the right wing noise machine--post from them--repeat their mantra--use their dog whistle messages and fear as a key part of your appeal.

Lets state it one more time: if Media Matters, as a private sector entity, wants to run a campaign to get people to boycott Fox News, they are perfectly within their rights to do so. And if you object to George Soros once having spent his money to fund Media Matters, take it up with the Koch Brothers!

Steven Frisch

Nothing like actually posting the full comments when one exercises their editorial control and moves them to another thread to ensure that they are not taken out of context.

Todd Juvinall

George, as you can see, the liberal can't even accept the facts when using their own words. It is a hopeless case. The liberal is from Uranus and we are from earth.

Anyone who thinks Brent Bozell is the same as Brock is either stupid or just trying to get a rise. Bozell even goes afte Grover Norquist, a staunch conservative while Brock just attacks only conservatives.

You have now satisfied the liberal's narcissism so maybe the liberal will finally shut up and return to the "Little red book" of thoughts.

Michael Kesti

When you don’t know grammar: "One Million Mom's" (sic) is plural rather than possesive and should therefore contain no apostrophe.

billy T

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street, If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet.
-- The Beatles in “The Taxman”

A Facebook User

This post is embarrassing. This is something I expect to see over at Sierra Dragon's Breath.

B. Emery

Todd Juvinall

Why thanks BenE, we on the right revel in the derision from liberals. Our badge of honor. Again, thanks for the compliment.

BTW, where is your blog BenE?

George Rebane

Facebook(BenE) 843am - "embarrassing"? That's an interesting characterization to add to my own attempt to demonstrate 'revelation' and 'corroboration' of how the liberal mind works. While I'm not sure of how you ascribe embarrassment here, I did initially seek to avoid embarrassing SteveF by leaving out his first comment in the thread which demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of the point.

But perhaps you had another perspective on the matter.

In a broader vein, we have to constantly remind ourselves why our ideologies and their derived prescriptions are so wildly different. Else the independent and/or undecided reader will be confused and frustrated in seeking out concurrence where none is possible. Some years back I expanded on this in detail. Hope this helps.

Steven Frisch

I understood the point perfectly George....(and you implying I do not is an intentional insult) you were claiming that what Media Matters was doing has no precedent. I pointed out precedent, and stated that your objection was over content...that is, when people you like support boycotts and media criticism you support it, and when people you do not like do not, it is unprecedented and somehow wrong.

In short, I was pointing out that YOU are the definition of a hypocrite.

Steve Frisch

A Facebook User

A grown man that having your resume reverting to adolescent behavior is embarrassing. Steve clearly stated his opinion and you either cannot or will not cede that he was correct. Instead you resort to a tactic that of a 12 year old bully.

Media Matters doesn't pretend to be anything other what it is, a web based progressive research center that dedicates itself to debunking right wing misinformation in the media.

Media Matters and Media Research Center

Media Matters about

Media Matters for America is a
Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media.

Launched in May 2004, Media Matters for America put in place, for the first time, the means to systematically monitor a cross section of print, broadcast, cable, radio, and Internet media outlets for conservative misinformation - news or commentary that is not accurate, reliable, or credible and that forwards the conservative agenda - every day, in real time.

Using the website as the principal vehicle for disseminating research and information, Media Matters posts rapid-response items as well as longer research and analytic reports documenting conservative misinformation throughout the media. Additionally, Media Matters works daily to notify activists, journalists, pundits, and the general public about instances of misinformation, providing them with the resources to rebut false claims and to take direct action against offending media institutions.

Media Research Center about

News Analysis Division, the "Leader in Documenting, Exposing and Neutralizing Liberal Media Bias," employs a team of expert news analysts who daily monitor all major nationally televised and print news broadcasts. The News Analysis Division publishes the daily CyberAlert e-mail report, weekly Media Reality Check reports and the every other week Notable Quotables collection of the most biased quotes from journalists — including the annual year-end "Awards for the Year's Worst Reporting" — as well as Profiles in Bias examinations of bias exhibited by influential journalists and Special Report studies. Also part of the division: The MRC's annual "DisHonors Awards" gala and the MRC's blogs, NewsBusters, "Exposing and Combating Liberal Media Bias" and TimesWatch, "Documenting and Exposing the Liberal Political Agenda of the New York Times."

George Rebane

SteveF 1039am and Facebook(BenE) 1040am - You both are flying in tight formation as you should. My argument that Media Matters is practicing something fundamentally different than boycotting a product or performance. MM seeks to shut down an entire conservative channel, and has declared this through the issuance of a detailed plan that was cited and linked in 'Ruminations - 29jun12'. I asked progressives to point to a similar document authored by conservatives that calls for silencing a prominent liberal channel.

It is instructive that neither of you understand the seminal difference to which I refer, or you are instead choosing to perform a mighty sidestep to distract readers from the issue. And the latter is point of this post.

Steven Frisch

Here is what George said:

"RR has long maintained that the radical leftwing has had in its agenda the silencing of opposition voices for the simple reason that open debate of issues and solutions has always been harmful to their cause. The self-declared middle roaders always gather to downgrade such campaigns by claiming that they are just symmetrical efforts by both left and right to silence each other. To my knowledge no such conservative campaign has ever been exposed by the Left (witness the response of the local echo chamber on these pages) beyond their empty accusations. Can anyone produce a strategy and planning document like this that was written by the Right?"

What did I do? I provided numerous examples of exactly what George asked for, including the Powell memo, which is precisely such a strategy and planning memo written by the right.

I also provided numerous examples of the 'right' trying to shut down "open debate of issues", including two personal examples that all of us can remember against films.

SOUR GRAPES IT IS! Get over it George, the left is learning to use the rights tactics against them.

A Facebook User

Try explaining it in different terms and without the insults and maybe we could decipher your point.

B. Emery

George Rebane

SteveF 1055am - I guess that settles it then, since we are all happy with our interpretations of the matter, and that is all I was highlighting in this post.

And thank you for pointing out that citing the memorandum by SCOTUS Justice Powell is in your (and the progressive) view the analogue of the Media Matters plan to shut down Fox News. There is no conservative who would consider those two documents to be equivalent since Powell neither prescribed nor suggested that any liberal media outlet be silenced. The liberal mind stands as described.

George Rebane

BenE 1113am - if you consider my descriptions of the progressive mindsets to be insults, then there may be hope for rapprochement - in a sense, I too would feel slighted if someone pointed out that the way I think is unreasonable, and ignores fundamental aspects of life on Earth. However, I believe you meant something more personally pejorative. In that case all I can suggest is that you limit your responses in such comments threads, or simply withdraw from the discussion so as to avoid trafficking with those of "adolescent behavior".

A Facebook User

I have limited time to participate in blogs due to work hours. I have set times to check voicemail/ emails per day and swing over to comment if I feel my opinion could add to the topic.

I don't like bullies of any kind and your clique of blogosphere friends seem to be cyber bullies. I spent my childhood fighting for those kids who were picked on and wouldn't fight for themselves. That fighting has shifted from physical to political/ intellectual. Bullies in my opinion are cowards who are afraid and lash out towards those who are the most vulnerable or those who cannot fight back for various reasons such as personality type or economic status.

Steve F. can handle his own on RR but I wanted him to know he was not alone.

I am sorry you have such a limited mental capacity that is seems to be absent of independent/ critical thought and so dependent on regurgitated opinions of others.

B Emery

Todd Juvinall

Well George, nice try but as you can see the liberal brain is unmovable from its brick wall. How anyone can equate a Media Matters jihad to destroy a network with boycotting France by Bill O'Reilly a few years ago, is in my opinion, ridiculous and insane. Of course we see the insanity of a liberal all around us. They are truly narcissists and I want to thank you George for exposing them so well to your readers. Now people can see why America is in the terrible state it is in.

Scott Obermuller

The conservatives have never tried to shut down debate. There are no examples given. 2 movies were picketed? Were there 2 big thugs with batons at the door, Frisch? What debate has been shut down? The modern left has been on record in many instances in trying their darndest (and succeeding) in shutting up voices they don't agree with. Why don't we start we several instances of speakers being heckled and shouted off of the stage at tax payer funded schools? Or the occasions in which the speaker is informed he or she can't even take the stage due to violence or the threat of violence? The folks that came to hear an opinion were denied that opportunity because of illegal and fascist disruption by the left. The disrupters should have been thrown out of the school for good and banned from ever setting foot in any public school ever again for any reason. Was your trip to the movies denied? Of course, it wasn't. I read the left wing blogs and web sites (Daily Kos, Truthout, etc) and the comments by the other readers. Violent threats, verbal abuse, foul language and fascism are rampant. The American left is all about shutting down opinion they don't agree with. It is a hallmark of Fox commentators that they invite the opposition to the debate. Left wing commentators won't dare to do that. The left is always happy to abscond with tax payer money for their views but where is the likes of W F Buckley on PBS? No where and that's how the left likes it.

Scott Obermuller

Sorry - "with" Why don't we start we several instances

Earl Crabb

In my experience as a cartoonist, I have received a lot more flak from the left than the right. Even my liberal cartoonist buddies reluctantly admit the same. It is true, however, that the religious right don't take too kindly to us when sex is involved. I know of many cases in the last thirty-odd years of prosecution in alleged obscenity cases. At least in this part of the world we don't get our fingers broken or have our homes burned down like they do in less enlightened countries. Some people just can't take a joke.

A Facebook User

Nothing to do with this topic other than I am appalled and am a liberal/ populist/ progressive. Just another liberal point of view I guess. Other than being a black man what was his crime and could this murder been avoided?

B. Emery

billy T

More examples of the Separate Worlds. One world faces Defense cuts and makes adjustments. The OTHER World faces Defense cuts and comes up with a expensive idea. One world considers dollars and cents. The Other World does not care about dollars or sense. Smells like fried chicken

A Facebook User

Billy T,
One world believes government provides services to its citizens and the other is so far removed from what life would be like without those services they say they do not want them or their costs. I encourage all of you to visit a third world country and do not stay at tourist destinations. Then come back and make the same claims how you do not want government services such as roads, bridges, education, drinkable water, affordable energy, ect....

B. Emery

David King

B. Emery

"Then come back and make the same claims how you do not want government services such as roads, bridges, education, drinkable water, affordable energy, ect...."

Who are you posting for?...Not us!

David King

"One world believes government provides services to its citizens..."

"I encourage all of you to visit a third world country..."

What a sad joke!

Steven Frisch

SCott, did you read the posts? I gave about 6-8 specific examples, many from the last 2-3 years. I could list many more examples, but i suspect it would do no good. You, and every other regular reader will simply refuse to acknowledge that these things ever happened.

Barry Pruett

Crabb: I had a conversation with Jeff Ackerman before he left in which he indicated that our local left are far more likely to demand the silencing of opinion in the community. He based this opinion on the calls received in connection with letters to the editor. The left would demand that conservative opinions not be published for a variety of reasons. Also to Mr. have provided not a single instance of a conservative organization trying to "shut-down" a news does not equate to silencing. The goal of Media Matters is to shut-down Foxnews while the goal of Media Research Center is to shine a light upon (or as Ben put it "debunk") other news organizations. Media Matters seeks to lessen speech while Media Research Center provides more speech. You must agee that more speech is better than less speech.

A Facebook User

So you supported the Obama stimulus trying to bring the US's infrastructure up to 21st Century and stop the hemorrhaging of the US economy? The problem is our infrastructure is around $3 trillion in disrepair from 30 years of neglect.

Here is another link of lack of infrastructure.

Todd Juvinall

DavidK, as you can read from BenE, you don't know squat about the role of a wonderful government since he assumes you have never visited a foreign third world country and if you did, you were just within the vacation spots compound. What hubris by BenE.

When I travel to a foreign country I get out and travel around to get a feel of the way of life of the local community. What usually always see is the LACK of benefits to the people by their government. Even though the people pay their taxes, the third world government steals the money and vacations in our country! So, maybe BenE needs to reevaluate the third world where his love for government is in charge?

Regarding the stimuli Obama passed here. The money went to the unions and other friends of Obama. For goodness sakes BenE, do some research h before you make such a ridiculous statement. The infrastructure has been neglected because your pals in the unions and the government have diverted the trillions of dollars into their pensions and pay. Lifetime medical paid by the taxpayers. So that bridge you complain about needing repairs could have been fixed but the money went into Guido's pension plan. In California, we pay a tax on a tax when we buy gasoline. We also pay 18 cents or so to the Feds. The trillions that has raised was to repair and maintain our infrastructure. Guess where the money is? In our state the girls and boys in the playground of Sacramento, including the Governor, borrowed it all and never paid it back. They spent it on pensions.

So, before you assume everyone is as dumb as a liberal, you may need to study a bit more before bloviating in a blog that has a lot of people that are pretty darn smart.

Ryan Mount

Forgive my naive question, but just how can anyone (or anything) shutdown speech especially given the numerous media channels we have now? We have more speech than ever in the history of civilization. Not to mention the protections of the 1st Amendment.

We have more speech than we know how to process. And I'm happy about that.

I think we're confusing criticism, whether justified, civil or not, with censorship. And we're using this hypersensitivity to criticism to lash out against people we don't agree with.

George Rebane

RyanM 822am - Let's not confuse or conjoin 1) the expressed desire, 2) the effort expended, and 3) the prospects for success in shutting down a communication channel; they are orthogonal notions. To various degrees Media Matters has demonstrated accomplishment in all three.

Scott Obermuller

Yes, S Frisch - I read the entire post and all of the links. None had anything to do with shutting down debate, silencing anyone or stopping anyone from being able to receive information. I provided examples of lefties stopping people from being able to air their views. I also notice you (and Ryan) have no response to my specific examples.


George, the fact that progressives tend to deploy an emotion based thought process while the right uses a more reason/logic based approach is not exactly groundbreaking. I focus on the good news: The left has failed to use government (FORCE/guns) to censor radio/tv despite their best laid plans to do so.

George Rebane

MikeyMcD 958am - The Fairness Doctrine and its halo legislation notwithstanding, you make a hopeful point. Long may it wave.

And it's also best to ignore reports like these.

David King

Todd said:

"DavidK, as you can read from BenE, you don't know squat about the role of a wonderful government since he assumes you have never visited a foreign third world country and if you did, you were just within the vacation spots compound. What hubris by BenE."


I spent most of my working life overseas.

By the way Ben, cheap energy is the key to clean water.


I get busy for a few days and it all hits the fan.

Earl, I guess S.Clay Wilson didn't bring many bible-thumpers to the Rip-Off Press readership :)

We also were treated to Steve Frisch's examples of respectful dialog.

I thought Ben Emery's declaration of George Rebane's limited intellectual capacity was the funniest part of this whole thread. George, it's true, if you were only as smart as Ben, you'd probably believe in the same things he does!

DK, cheap energy was the key to the entire industrial revolution, starting with James Watt's improvements that made steam engines useful. Here's a glimpse of life without engines, with someone akin to Ben E providing the punchline that is the title of the clip:


2nd try:


Media Matters isn't trying to shut down debate, they're trying to raise their rabble to fight towards November, and the Fox boogeyman is the route to take if you're trying to scare the children for some of that cheap emotional energy.

billy T

Great news everybody. Just found out members of a Native American tribe are exempt from the tax penalty, mandate and Obamacare. Gotta love the liberal white guilt. Amish are exempted as well. As a Native American Amish person, I wish to thank you all and say I forgive you. Even you Tiny Tim. I forgive all you white liberal crackers not for what you have done to my people(especially the Amish), but rather I forgive you because that is the kind of man I am. Now, don't any of you members of the Great Right Wing Conspiracy get any ideas and challenge this under the equal protection clause or some other jailhouse lawyer ploy. I got my exemption, now you go get yours. Two thoughts on the Separate Worlds thingie. One world wants to penalize those with good health care benefits starting in 2018 (a gift to the unions). Most union plans provide full accommodations, i.e. someone pays at least $1,025/year for the workers' health bennies, or known in the underworld as a "Cadillac Plan." Great. If you got yourselves one of those shiny Cadillacs, you will be "penalized" 40% of the value of what your bossman pays. The underworld calls that fair and affordable, lol. The second thing the underworld does puzzles me. Very few people die as a direct cause of Man Made Global Warming as compared to the hundred of thousands that die each year due to unsanitary indoor pollution. Shanties that heat and cook food over burning dung, poor drinking water, etc. The above world would say that running natural gas to these huts would save millions of lives and cause less green house catastrophes . The under world would say give them electric cars. The underworld is quite creepy. The above world is focused on tangible results. Thanks again liberal crackers.


Billy T, the issue with Cadillac plans is not that someone has gotten more value from their employer for their labors, it's that it is untaxed income. It is *the* major tax loophole in the entire IRS code.

The mortgage deduction is railed against by some, but ALL interest was originally deductable, including revolving credit, because interest paid is taxed as income to the creditor. W


The mortgage deduction is railed against by some, but ALL interest was originally deductable, including revolving credit, because interest paid is taxed as income to the creditor. When health benefits really were fringe, it wasn't a big deal, but folks with those "Cadillac" plans are a big driver of everyone's costs. It isn't a "penalty", it is a tax.

If it wasn't for unions being among the ones getting the goodies, it's a loophole that might have been closed a long time ago.

Russ Steele


How much Native American do you have be for an exemption? My great, great grandmother was an half-breed Native American, my grandfather had dark skin, black hair and big hook nose. If just a little bit of Native American counts maybe I can get an exemption also. If a little bit counts, will be real busy in the coming month as everyone looks for their exemption.

billy T

Gregory, call it a tax. Still feels like a penalty. Yep, I see your point. Like working on a ranch and then having to pay taxes on the value of the "rent" of the bunkhouse or when hauled into divorce court and calling the bunk "income" so she can get more money out of this turnip. Hey, when the Native Americans roamed this land freely, women did all the work and there were no taxes. Then the paleface came and tried to improve on that. Suppose if an employer pays $1,126/month for my plan. Are you telling me that I got to pay the 40% regressive tax/penalty and declare an additional $5,404.80 income a year that I never saw? How does that make it affordable? Everybody wants good health care delivery. Just suppose I seek and obtain a visible means of support that includes health care for myself and the precious little children who call me Papa. Seems I will be taking home less and paying more and YOU state I am the reason health care costs go up? Never see me walk into a hospital uninsured or the precious little ones whose frontal lobes have not fully developed. Next thing you will tell me is the limits on my HSA's will be reduced to $2,500 year. Then you will probably tell me that my employer can not longer write off the health care expenses the Bossman pays for employee health care expenses. Next thing you know I will no longer be able to claim health care expenses as pre-tax deductions. Nonsense. Are you on drugs??! No need to answer the last question. Yes, life is not fair but I don't see how this makes anything more affordable or accessible. And what is this nonsense about the 8% rule for the uninsured??? Downright crazy I tell ya. Suppose a dude or dudette makes, say, 36K/year. Not a lot, just enough to pay rent and drive a used car and keep shoes on the little bambinos. Has to fork over $2,880/year? Or is that he has to pay anything over $2,880/year to cover health insurance. I can see why AARP has risen the amount of their employee contribution to drop it just under the Cadillac limits. AARP cares about its employees. Pay more for the same, hopefully. And why are the old people scared shitless that they will lose some coverage under Medicare? They will pay more for less. And why is Barrakberry Ojama cutting 500 billion out of the elderberry's health care? Sounds like he is tossing Grandma over the cliff. Those mean nasty Libbowels. Taking a pound of flesh from our elderberries and driving up Grandma's utilities. You crackers have it all ass backwards. We Native American Amish take care of our wise elders with respect and dignity and honor. The Great White Father in Washington always culls the herd by shooting the old and feeble first. Low hanging fruit I suppose. Well, I got my exemption. Thank again for excusing me from your party. Besides, I would rather sink my tom-tom in the mashed potatoes.

George Rebane

Taxes for value not received or those that force behaviors are penalties.


Billy T, how it should work is that if you were given, as part of your wages, a health insurance benefit that your employer paid $6,000 for, you should pay income taxes for that $6,000 in wages and benefits you actually did receive.

Done right, the tax tables would be adjusted so that the whole thing is revenue neutral; folks with lousy insurance, or none at all, would get more take-home pay, those who might have been getting $30K of before tax pay would finally see what that manna from heaven was actually costing. And finally, insurance would be purchased with after tax dollars, allowing a market for individual policies to be on equal footing with employer plans.

As I've just found out, that isn't how Pelosi & Company did it. The penalty will be paid starting in 2018 by the insurance company for daring to actually sell a company the policy, assuming Obamacare is still in place in 6 years.


"Taxes for value not received or those that force behaviors are penalties."

If your employer has been buying you a $30k/annum health insurance policy with before tax dollars, you've been receiving value. Lots of it.

George Rebane

Gregory 354pm - hence the critical insertion of that little word 'not'.

Dixon Cruickshank

George I would think the quote I sent you from the unknown author fits this, although I would think it needs a full posting not an update or a comment - just say'in

Douglas Keachie

Name calling? Gee what would the Rightys here have as a name for this dude? Romney Inspired?

George Rebane

DougK 252pm - It seems that you're a little confused about relating Johnson's sudden resignation (for whatever reason) to labels that help identify ideologies. And the relationship to Romney is something I look forward to seeing explained.

Douglas Keachie

Here's one sentence with both answers: They are both capitalists with a Capital "C."

Douglas Keachie

As in "Cee what's in it for me, and the commons be damned." How many Duke middle class customers will pay how much each to cover the expense? If this were a school superintendent, how would you state your apparent non-interest in the topic (for whatever reason)?

George Rebane

DougK 347pm, 351pm - You did it again; thanks for highlighting how the progressive mind thinks and reasons.

I too am a Capitalist (note cap C), and so are many other RR readers. In our minds, basing your characterization of the relationship on the fact that they're both Capitalists is a tenuous connection indeed in an attempt to make as yet an unmade point about Johnson's resignation. And your inclusion of the notion of a commons in this item is totally puzzling, and calls into question what understanding you have of a commons.

If the sudden resignee were a school superintendent paid for with my taxes, the sumbich would not have gotten the job with a contract that had such a severance clause in it. If the superintendent were in some other district which did not draw upon my wallet, then I would simply wish them Vaya con Dios and let them do what they like.

But your concern with Johnson's behavior, given that you were a Duke shareholder, is understandable. However, if you own no Duke stock, then your concern would be most curious until you were identified as a progressive - in which case all would again become clear.

Scott Obermuller

Thank you Douglas for once again showing the main difference between a lefty and conservative. You operate on about one one-hundredth as much of a knowledge base as a conservative. First of all, no one wrote the guy a check for 44 million for one day's pay. They actually don't even know if he got that much anyway if you would actually slow down and read the whole story. A lot of it was built up over the years of service that he had with Progress Energy. Duke and Progress have a combined customer base of approximately 10.2 million customers with other operations around the world. So each poor, poor customer is out less than a cup of coffee, if that. And if he was let go as the story implies, it could be because the board didn't like his ideas about the future that could have ended up costing the companies (and the customers) far more than 44 million. I notice that there is a political connection. That evil scum bag power company, Duke, is pledging to raise 32 million for the DEMOCRATS! Apparently, a re-elected President Zero will give back accordingly.

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