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26 August 2012

Comments

billy T

It is just as well that Obama does not speak on national issues until after the election. His views are too extreme. I left the Democrat plantation years ago and was hoping that Obama would change and join us on the sunny side of the street.

Todd Juvinall

That is so funny! If the lefty blogger wants a clear head, the device you mentioned may be the answer. I have to shake my head in disbelief when I read articles from the so-called "smartest people in the room" bunch who think America is doing just fine. Five to eight million people in construction are now sitting home or working as house cleaners since O took office. Wages are down, business starts are at their lowest in my lifetime and food stamp recipients at their highest. If those people like to have smoke up their keister to delude themselves that O's hope and change worked great, then my guess is Xanax is also being overused.

Steven Frisch

Who says "everything is just fine"? I think the nation is fun*ed and it is the fault of stupid policy on the part of both Republicans and Democrats (but primarily Republicans).

But in the end this is just dissembling from the key point......Romney tells a joke about Obama's birth for one reason only....to boost the vote from white crackers like you guys.

George Rebane

StevenF 755am - You've been away for a while, and now you're back with your progressive view of the world. And that's fine. But as in the past, it doesn't take very long until you start the personal name calling again - "white crackers like you guys." Behave yourself.

Russ Steele

Having run out of intellectual ammo, Frisch resorts to name calling -- "white crackers"

Actually I am a majority voter in a new category --"anyone but Obama"

Steven Frisch

You can enforce the rules equally from the people who call me a socialist, a communist, and accuse me of criminal activity in my professional life I take it?

Steven Frisch

And I take it "rag head" is now verboten?

billy T

Aha. Eureka! Mr. Frisch, I suspected it was that joke that got you all unhinged yesterday. Rubbed ya the wrong way eh? Yep, Romney addressing thousands of enthusiastic supporters in his former home town and says he was born at the local hospital. He even said his sweetheart was born at the neighboring hospital. The joke part was he added that no one asked to see his birth certificate.

Yep, throwing red meat to us crackers and half breeds and we goggled it up! Now that I got a taste of it, I got a hankering for some more, a lot more. Most white cracker men lean to the right. And two lefty don't make a righty. White bread for all. So, lets spend days blabbing about the crack Romney made. Nay, lets spend weeks.

I call that another diversion, but I ain't as smart as you and your honky friends. Obama's joke that shovel ready jobs are not shovel ready did not sit well with me, so I catch yer drift. I did get over in cause it was true. A lot of truth in humor.

I did find your statement yesterday that somehow Obama being black (its ok, it ain't your fault)and born somewhere else made him less of a man, less of a human being, less of an Americano. I disagree. I voted for Alan Keyes for President and I think Ambassador Keyes is more of a man than I will ever be. I think Dr. Condi Rice is more of a woman than I will ever get. Colin Powell showed us darkies how to rise to the top of our fields. You really should stop hating on righties and stop talking down to your fellow man. Life begins at conception and all life is priceless. I will overlook your frowny face and realize we all have bad days and get off track.

I suppose the Good Lord decided to give lefties an underdeveloped sense of humor which is His way of teaching us the importance of diversity and how we must accept people the way they are. C U Y T

Steven Frisch

Funny, me unhinged....you guys think there has been some conspiracy to hide the Presidents birth, Dixon claims he was in some black hole for years and no one knew him at any of the places he spent his life, and you guys call me unhinged. Your entire premise is unhinged, I am just pointing it out!

George Rebane

StevenF 827am - If someone thinks you promote policies and values that are ascribed to legitimate political classes with self-adopted labels that are not pejorative per se, then that is the price of participating in forums such as RR and countless others in this land. You take it, argue your point on the merits, and move on. Otherwise don't participate with the ad hominims. We've circled the 'socialist', 'progressive', 'communist',... labels many times here and you know my position on such ascriptions.

I don't know who has accused you of "criminal activity" around here more than Obama has had a lackey accuse Romney of being a felon.

Steven Frisch

Where is your sense of equity George? What is the functional difference between referring to my points as equivalent to an anal tobacco enema and name calling? What is the functional difference between calling someone a communist and calling someone a cracker? Both are used pejoratively. Both Todd and Barry have implied or directly stated that I broke the law by engaging in political speech at SBC; it is a lie: and you allowed them to do so. And in what world is "rag head" not a pejorative?

But why don't you just go ahead and kick my butt off.

Steven Frisch

And in what world is Obama responsible for a third party accusing Romney of "criminal activity" while Romney is not responsible for third parties accusing Obama of criminal activity? What an appalling double standard you condone.

Gregory

"I think the nation is fun*ed and it is the fault of stupid policy on the part of both Republicans and Democrats (but primarily Republicans)."

Not that I want to become a Republican, but of the last 80 years, Republicans have controlled the House of Representatives less than 18. That's where budgets and taxes originate, that's where the power resides in Washington by Constitutional design.

Frisch, the rule is simple."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If you want the cycle to stop, stop it. Personally, I won't be holding my breath.

Todd Juvinall

Wow, I have the video link of the Frisch campaigning for Prop 32 in LWW and he says that is OK and not a law breaking activity for a non profit rent seeker. Hmmm.

Regarding the term "cracker". Why would a white guy like the Frisch use a black persons term for a white guy? The term is a pejorative and used throughout the black world. Sort of like "gringo" in the Mexican world to describe white folks. So, it appears the "smartest guy in the room" is just an undereducated fellow who thinks he is black I guess.

billy T

"....you guys think there has been some conspiracy to hide the Presidents birth." Conspiracy Mr. Frisch? Who told you to say that? :)

THEMIKEYMCD

Romney might have earned my vote by confirming that he would dump Bernanke. Our ills start and stop by the mechanisms our central planners (slave drivers) use against us...
Progressive policies (in addition to be immoral) are counterproductive:
The FED is punishing savers, manipulating the uneducated into risky investments, devaluing the US Currency- all detrimental to our collective success.
Progressive Tax system squelches economic growth.
Minimum Wage squelches employment/training and economic growth.
Public Employee Pension plans are state-sponsored organize crime (illegal on the outside).
Environmental protections cripple the lower/middle class through excessive energy prices, fewer jobs, inflation.
National/State debt imprisons us all to interest payments.

If progressives cared once ounce for their fellow man they would side with freedom, love, prosperity. Instead they focus their hate on growing government and shackling us all.

Gregory

"And in what world is Obama responsible for a third party accusing Romney of "criminal activity" while Romney is not responsible for third parties accusing Obama of criminal activity?"

Frisch, IIRC the "third party" who accused Romney of being a felon was on the White House staff. Not exactly an arm's length away.

Steven Frisch

Well Todd I am 100% right, that is not a "law breaking activity" for a non-profit. No "Hmmm." about it. And by the way, while we are being accurate, I was not campaigning for Prop 32, I was campaigning against Prop 23. As a non-profit it is 100% legal to advocate on a public policy issue. What is not legal is supporting or opposing candidates....you know, kind of like CABPRO did while you were President and told people you were a non-profit when you really were not.

billy T

Well, another mystery solved this fine morning. Since my youth, I have always been puzzled by the phase "unpardonable sin". Never could wrap my little mind around that until this lovely morning.

The unpardonable sin, or unforgivable sin if you prefer, has been revealed in this little blog in Nevada County, California, a small dot on the map just south of the
Great Northwest.

The sin has been traced back to our facilitator Dr. George Rebane. Apparently Dr. Rebane called some bush rats (a Disney term straight out of its block buster movie Aladdin)...er...called some bush rats "ragheads". This capital offense has been compounded by Dr. Rebane's refusal to grovel and apologize for his crime against humanity.

How long, oh how long must he pay for his utterance? What is that you say, Mr. Frisch? Ok, until the end of time? Sounds reasonable to me. BTW, where is Dixon lately? Miss that old swamp creature. He is probably buttoning down the hatches right about now. That is assuming someone let him escape from the penalty box.

Guess we are taking a break from matters of national importance. Its all Fox News's fault, again.

Steven Frisch

Actually Greg here is the statement from Stephanie Cutler, from a conservative source:

“Either Mitt Romney, through his own words and his own signature, was misrepresenting his position at Bain to the SEC, which is a felony,” Cutter said on a conference call with reporters back then. “Or he was misrepresenting his position at Bain to the American people to avoid responsibility for some of the consequences of his investments.”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/20/obama-mangles-romney-felony-accusations/#ixzz24flp4PHu

Please note, Ms. Cutler was not on the "White House Staff" she was on the campaign staff. Second, she did not say he committed a felony...she described a choice of two options.....which is exactly what both the Romney campaign and SuperPACS do when they imply that the President is doing something illegal--you know like serving as President without constitutional authority. That was not a staffer that was the friggin' candidate.....

I am not saying that what Ms. Cutler said was correct, or acceptable....I am saying it is common practice...which is what is wrong with politics today.....but as I have said several times....no unilateral disarmament.

TomKenworth

Without a doubt the tobacco industry (Gore's prime source, inherited) has been and continues to goose the public at home and abroad, even to this day, despite killing off more Americans than WWII. And to think I thought it was an early abortionist's kit.

TomKenworth

"anyone but Obama" and if Republicans could raise the dead, that would include Osama, that's how irrational they've become. In a way it will be good if Romney wins, for then all the world will see how naked and devoid of useful purpose the policies he holds dear are to anyone but the top 5%. We could get all this BS the Right feeds to its crackers cleared up in a hurry, and even Aunt Polly will be able to see the folly and greed unmasked for its true character.

But of course, the Republicans will put on a good show, as they did in 2008, and throw this election too, so as to give the American Middle and Working classes four more years to get used to what the Republicans want them to think of as the "new, normal, USA," with world class minimum wages and % of population receiving them.

"Aunt Polly, the leading mother figure in The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, is the naive, reformist, yet loving aunt of Tom Sawyer. The first glance of Aunt Polly's naiveness and gullibility occurs when the narrator reveals that she thinks she has the capacity to covertly manipulate the actions of others -"Like many other simple hearted souls, it was her pet vanity to believe she was endowed with a talent for dark and mysterious diplomacy"(4). As the story continues, we see that the situation is actually opposite and it is more that she is the victim of Tom's manipulations instead. Aunt Sally also reveals her naiveness in her misguided attempts at health care - "She was one of those people who are infatuated with patent medicines and all new fangled methods of producing health or mending it"(92). Instead of healing Tom, she would just intoxicate him to the point where he would be having a drug induced "general good time," and "lay[ing] on the floor expiring with laughter"(95). Aunt Polly would also experiment with hydrotherapy, "drowning him in a deluge of cold water" for "The water treatment was new, now, and Tom's low condition was a windfall to her"(93). The narrator explains Aunt Polly's futile efforts at healing -"She was as simple hearted and honest as the day went along, and so she was an easy victim"(93)."

George Rebane

StevenF 844am - Sorry for being away so long this morning, sometimes there is more to life than RR ;-)

Steve, if you don't understand the functional differences you refer to, then you don't belong in these discussions. That particular intellectual hurdle is not that high, others around here are much higher.

849am - I believe Romney's accuser was an astute and well connected member of Obama's staff. Don't know the criminal accusation against Obama.

Todd Juvinall

You libs are on the run. On the one hand you claim Romney is in cahoots with those PACS and then try and make us believe Obama is not. You two fell off the turnip truck.

billy T

Dr. Rebane, you best keep an eye on that tobacco enema. Them anti-tobaccy folks are getting more and more militant with each passing day. I am hoping to borrow it some day. Don't know if it will do me any good, but it can't hurt. That contraption would be the life of a party. A real ice breaker. Maybe with one small adjustment, one could take it up to Pioneer Park and blow pot up people's anal cavities. Then over to city hall. Imagine it would get a few hits on You Tube.

Steven Frisch

Its really quite clear George....your pejoratives are rational analysis and others are name calling, you use of 'raghead' is rational my use of cracker is an insult. The criminal accusation against Obama is that he knowingly assumed the position of President of the United States while not being a qualified. That is a felony.

George Rebane

StevenF 218pm - I'm beginning to think that RR is either way above you, or way below you. And I don't know where English fits as a language in which you are competent. First, 'rational' and 'pejorative' are semantically orthogonal, and you continue to confuse that.

Raghead is an intended pejorative to the best of my abilities to define, as I have made clear countless times in these pages. In specific instances I use it rationally to bestow the pejorative on the subject(s) that I discuss.

I don't recall ever using a pejorative label to describe you - pejorative in the acceptable usage of the term that you apparently reject. But at least, you (should) know the intended usage and ascription to you of certain ideologically scented labels that match your professed and demonstrated beliefs.

As to Obama's presidential qualifications - I most certainly have not accused him of anything other than purposely hiding his background, and publishing an obviously doctored digital copy of his long form birth certificate. Is he qualified in the other substantive attributes we would like to see in our President - absolutely NOT, as I have made clear in these pages over the last four years.

Steven Frisch

Purposely hiding his background and publishing an obviously doctored digital copy of his long form birth certificate would be a felony. So you are accusing him of a felony.

George Rebane

StevenF 541pm - You are a piece of work. The world accuses him of "purposely hiding his background and publishing an obviously doctored digital copy of his long form birth certificate". For the last four years it has been a constant topic of conversation and conjecture in publications ranging from the WSJ to The Economist, and serious conservative journals in between. Only the obviously leftwing outlets have maintained the chorus that there is nothing amiss with the President's unexamined background.

I'm not sure that any of that is a felony (else the Repubs in Congress would have leaped at it), but there are people/groups who definitely think so.

Todd Juvinall

George, Frisch only likes the black half of Obama. They have a diagnosis for that racial malady but I can't remember what it is called. We see Obama as a man who has policies that are misguided. Frisch sees a black man who needs his sympathy.

George Rebane

ToddJ 712pm - well said Todd. Most progressives see Obama as a Sec 8 project come to fruition. The Rebanes have been long time supporters of Alan Keyes, Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice (and even Colin Powell), and more recently of Herman Cain and Allen West. To get a conservative black into the White House would be a long held dream come true.

You have to be in deep denial of reality to believe that Obama got elected on the basis of his sterling resume, and not SOLELY on the basis of his having the correct skin color.

billy T

Dr. Rebane, I must applaud your efforts and patience and attempts to reason, but is a big waste of time. Something to do with that predicable liberal white guilt. They have it in their DNA to protect America's first dark skinned President to the death in the face of an avalanche of evidence and tangible results to the contrary.

Its a pity. I would really like to know Obama's solution to unemployment. You have to dig through DNC sites to come up with tax the rich, tax investment and build some bridges. Ok, right. What about Medicare? Solution is to outlaw Medicare Advantage, reimburse doctors and hospitals at a lower rate and move money out of the Medicare fund into Obamacare. Ok, right. How about the debt. Debt is good. Ok, right.

I was heartened this week to hear reports of Jeffery Immelt finally leaving the Obama Jobs Council in disgust. Said Obama just talks in philosophical terms, spouts his ideology at every meeting, avoids the topic or mechanics of job creation and thinks that will fix everything. Can't blame Obama. That method worked good enough to get him elected President of the United States of America.

So much about the great debate on ideas and the policies the issue forth from one's convictions. All we are left with is defend Obama to the death, no matter what because he is half black. The protectors have just two main tactics. First, dare not look behind the curtain. The second is somebody else did it too.


The dare not look (or you must not look)is a natural defense. So much that the mind will not allow some to venture to turn over any rocks whatsoever. As a person can shut off the topic with looks, glares and threats, so do the Obama supporters react when 2 plus two equals 3.

The somebody else did it too is a classic diversion of taking responsibility for one's actions. A perverse justification that must be rationalized. Parents are aware of this. Tell little David to get back in the house and finish his chores and David cries to the bloody heavens that Johnnie did not finish his chores either or why pick on me and not Johnnie? Its so unfair or David can use Johnnie to deflect attention off himself.

Back in the day I was working on low budget Hollywood movies. I asked the sound man how he got started. He laughed. He said "You remember how it was when they were under fire to get more black faces in the industry. I was working as a janitor at Paramont and they told me to start holding the sound boom." He was a lousy sound man, but knew his limitations and made no bones about it. He also enjoyed cracking jokes about that silly white guilt. We all laughed all the way to the bank. I am dark enough to be lumped under the foolishness of liberal white guilt.
Thus I am above reproach. You are wasting your time, Dr. Rebane, IMHO

Todd Juvinall

What is really amazing to me about the Frisch and his ilk is they have never worked with other races or had them as friends yet they know everything about we who did and do. Their racism is learned from books, my lack of racism comes from reality.

billy T

Dr. King's dream of judging people on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin will never be realized as long as there is liberal white guilt holding us back.

Paul Emery

George

Can you point me to the WSJ, Economist articles you refer to? I have yet to see any credible media embracing the theory that Obama forged hi s birth certificate.

TomKenworth

Yes Todd, you were very well educated about other ethnicities growing up in Nevada County, known for its diversity, and then moving to Palm Springs, noted for its classless society, and then returning to homebase. Probably included at least two overflights of Watts, going to and from LAX.

George Rebane

PaulE 925pm - "forged" is a term only you have used here. As I recall, the media reports were about his little known background that included the WH released birth certificate whose digital image looked as if it were either corrected or modified when examined at a pixel level. It is still curious why the WH posted a layered image instead of a bitmap image that would have been normal for a document that had been digitally photographed.

Steven Frisch

I love how all of a sudden George pulls back on the regular rhetoric he has been spewing about the forgery of the birth certificate. As though he thinks that we don't see through his little word games and semantic ploys to imply that the President is a foreigner, a Kenyan, who is not a real American, without ever having to actually come out and say it directly. See George wants to be a decent man. He likes the fiction of being a decent man, a God fearing man, an intellectual, a civilized, well educated, American. But he is caught in his all too clever semantic web of propaganda. He is caught in his indecency. And when we call him on his indecency, he dissembles. How sad.

George Rebane

StevenF 1048pm - Now that you have again ascribed my "being a decent man, a God fearing man, an intellectual, a civilized, well educated, American" as a "fiction", it is time to give you another time out. You are ill qualified here.

TomKenworth

George, scanners often are left in whatever is the default mode of saving, and apparently here the mode was .pdf, and in the process of doing the OCR as well as taking a simple picture, layers were created. Using .pdf mode would give the best resolution for people everywhere using different computers, and browsers. If you have a decent scanner and software like Omnipage, or even just the software that comes with the scanner, this is the case. If the layers were left in, each one would plainly show what it was, and what it contributed to the final appearance of the image. I have yet to find a discussion of the layers themselves, and their individual contributions, just of the fact that they exist, as if that was a sin.

Rather silly, I'll try doing mine, when I get time. BTW, birth certificates that were filed away many years ago, and never looked at, probably were very well preserved, before they themselves were scanned in, in Hawaii or anywhere. Obama is most likely working from a copy reproduced from microfilm. I suspect that this was the case for Obama. Only birth certificates that get tossed around during moving and usage get that wrinkled yellowed look.

I suspect that if I got a copy of George's marriage certificate, printed it out, scanned it in, it too would have layers. BTW, yes it is available on line, as is ours. With just a bit of cash, you can find out mother's maiden name, social security number, and date of birth, which is why id theft is getting so bad.

billy T

Dr. Rebane, I humbly suggest that you close the cover on that bee smoker and lock it up somewhere. I have a feeling that Mr. Frisch is all butt hurt and he is liable to take the smoke blower and go home. Like flushing the punch bowl at a liberal party. Pity, I was hoping to take it to show and tell.

TomKenworth

OK, I finally wasted some time and m prepared to give a more definitive analysis. Here is Exhibit A, as a screen capture from the White House page. They did not seem to have a way to download it and save it handy:

ObamaBirthScreenCapture copy

Please note that the document is dated at the bottom, many years later than the dates on the image of the birth certificate, that are part of the document. Please note that the banding on the left typically occurs whenever a bound book (in this case of birth certificates) is laid on a copier, it is quite common for banding to occur. For comparison, please check out the other supposedly certificates that were registered later than Obama's, even though it has an earlier serial number. The lady checked in sooner, but gave birth later, and her doctor didn't get around to signing it until the 11th, so it was registered later than Obama's, which got through on the 8th.

NordykeOriginalInverted copy

In both cases we have a copy of a birth certificate layered into a cover letter in which the bureaucrat(s) of choice for the era signed off on the authenticity. Things change in 30 years.

In neither case is there any evidence of forgery, go back and find something else to moan about.

TomKenworth

As for the "file number" being the same, "151" I think you will find that as analogous to your parcel number, where everyone in one book starts off with a fixed number, out here I am in Book 60. Then there are two more numbers which narrow it down to one parcel. All three births share "151." Baby Barack is 151-61-10641, baby Susan is 151-61-10637, and baby Gretchen is 151-61-10638. My guess is that 151 is simply the bureaucratic code for which type of form it is, a birth certificate, and that 61 is the year the birth occurs in. I gather these forms are distributed by the state to numerous hospitals on different islands, so it would be entirely possible to find numbers totally out of sequence with respect to actual birth dates. You know how government bureaucracies are...

Got any more questions about this non-issue?

TomKenworth

As for the typewriter, check out the year of birth, "1961" on both documents. surely the same typeface, and likely the same typewriter, as the tail of the "9" almost smushes the back of the "6" and it drops below the line slightly in all three cases. Note also the dividing lines for the boxes, both minor and major, match in thicknesses. BTW, I'm just getting warmed up.

TomKenworth

How many and what kinds of jobs paying what sorts of salaries will be created by Romney when he gets in office? He and Ryan never discuss this with real numbers, because they know they can't make it happen, even if they get rid of health and safety regulations, lower their taxes on the rich folks sources of income even more, etc. They have no plans that will actually work to restore the Middle Class, and no real desire to create any. They've got theirs,and their grabbing for even more, and the future doesn't look to be very pretty any more, not even for the rich, which is stupid of them.

Barry Pruett

Dr. Rebane: Frisch also accused me of being a racist for running against another candidate who is not white. Racism is the new, last refuge of a scoundrel...but also a clear sign of desperation and lack of a substantive argument.

Todd Juvinall

For Keachie. You have missed my many stories of living in Palm SPrings in the 70's and working with people from all over the planet? Unlike the Frisch who only mouths equality in hiring I actually had many folks I hired who were not looking like me. So, perhaps you need to be a little less of a loose lip bloviator who hogs these blogs?

George Rebane

BarryP 824am - agreed.

TomK 219am - Doug, you really should get some sleep instead of jousting with this windmill in the early hours. You should also review what I have posted on the matter and there the links to more comprehensive analyses done on the document.

Re you 230am - Romney and Ryan have published a tsunami more of numbers than have come out of the Administration or the Democratic Senate (which hasn't published a budget during all of Obama's term). And what little has come out that reflects the future - primarily from the revelations of Obamacare - are disputed or shown the lie by everyone from the CBO to respected policy analyses institutes and independent economists.

And as I have pointed out on these pages for years, no one really knows how to 'save the middle class', or whether it is even salvageable in its historical form. Times, technology, and the world have changed and continue changing very rapidly. And it is only the calcified progressives who always hearken back to one-dimensional relationships and forged-for-the-ages activist issues (while accusing the conservatives of doing that).

I do believe that many of the old economic and social paradigms will fall, and be replaced by something very new and not by the multi-failed collectivist disasters of old. IMHO, the solutions will come from a wide distribution of free people, each of whom are allowed the rewards of their successes, and definitely not from what Hayek called the 'central planners'. Until/if machines dominate, human nature is the most constant asset we have.

Paul Emery

Todd Juvinal writes

"What is really amazing to me about the Frisch and his ilk is they have never worked with other races or had them as friends yet they know everything about we who did and do. Their racism is learned from books, my lack of racism comes from reality. "

By your own description you have lived most of your life in Nevada County, hardly an environment for the multi cultural experiences you describe as your heritage. You didn't serve in the military so that option is out. When and where did you actually garner those experiences that nurtured your "reality"? College? Work experience?

TomKenworth

I found NO links you listed nor others I've found to be more comprehensive or thorough, and thousands of them referring to all the issues I've have addressed and answered. This is my area of expertize, and when I speak, you listen.

For example, you stated:

"It is still curious why the WH posted a layered image instead of a bitmap image that would have been normal for a document that had been digitally photographed."

And the is a difference between digitally photographed and scanned, and you seem completely oblivious to that distinction. The preferred method (cheapest, fastest, even with an untrained minimum wage operator, this is very boring work) for a relatively flat object such as a document, even if found in a bound volume, is to use a scanner. Do you even have a clue as to what the menu choices are in Photoshop? Take a peek, part way in, with many of the choices having many many sub-variations at the command of the operator. And this is not even the latest version of Photoshop, but it is adequate for my purposes.

Photoshop747Menus copy

Todd Juvinall

Well Paul, I have written a lot about my five years out of county and working with all races. You just missed those articles.

TomKenworth

Todd, how many Asian, pick your particular type, Estonians, or Australian aborigines did you hire? My guess would be a string of illegals from south of the border, and a few blacks thrown in for good measure. Ever been out of the country, and lived there for any substantial amount of time? Ever lived in a poverty area in the USA?

TomKenworth

"Y'all can't get the water to clear up, until you get the turd out of the creek." East Tennessee wisdom.
~George Rebane's opening quote in this thread~

Whatever Gregory Goodknight is afflicted with, it seems George has caught it too.

George Rebane

TomK 1001pm - Wow! Please don't confuse knowing anything about image processing with knowing the buttonology of an application like Photoshop which allows a 5-year-old to do some pretty impressive munging of an image without knowing how the guts work. BTW, I don't know what area of expertise you are claiming here, but image processing should not be one of them. You've made that clear in your voluminous debates with GregG on these pages.

And I'm not sure that you even understand what the contention point is about in the WH posted image. But you could just search RR with 'Obama, birth certificate' or google 'george rebane, obama, birth certificate'.

However, if you ever do come up with a new explanation of why the layered WH image had what appeared as obvious pixel editing artifacts in it, then bring it to us. Your attempted explanations of how digital images are captured by scanners vs cameras does not explain away what was immediately revealed in the early YouTube videos. Not even color separation layers can randomly do the observed edits.

On publishing that layered image, my own theory is that the staffer did not understand the question that pops up in almost all image related applications which allow you to save/publish an image in either its structured (e.g. layered) form or as a single layer flat bitmap (where only the pixel color-plane payload and metadata may be available), or in a compressed (e.g. cosine transformed JPEG) format. The staffer apparently saved it for online publication in a structured format, which then allowed all the subsequent controversial analyses.

But you do take good photographs.

TomKenworth

George are you testifying that a scanner set to do OCR and a .pdf output of the process will not create obvious pixel editing artifacts? All untouched by humans hands or intentions?

And where is the original image? Why rely on doctored YouTube images when apparently neither the WH nor all its opponents have bothered to save it as such. I already explained as carefully as possible how scanners are often controlled by OCR software, and how in the quest for meaningful letters some pixels may be altered, with no conspiratorial human input required. My guess is that the document either came by snail mail and was scanned at the WH on a scanner which simultaneously attempted to create an OCR version of it (text only) and preserved a .pdf copy of its handiwork.

Or it is possible that the image was emailed from Hawaii, and thus contained the artifacts necessary to merge the electronic version of the birth certificate with the cover letter image attesting to the date it was created, and to the certification of authenticity.

In either case, the certificate is real, or you, like the dude in AZ, are calling a high official in Hawaii a liar. I thought I had the impression you agreed that Obama's birth certificate was real, and that you agreed he is a USA citizen? If not, then say so, and quite the digging with the spade, and looking for excrement in Deer Creek. It is again unbecoming of you.

TomKenworth

Leave the nugget digs to Greg, he's better at it...

TomKenworth

When you are as rich as the folks who put Adobe together, then you can call for everyone to do machine code to alter images. In the meantime, admit that buttonology is what makes this country money, much as a Lamborghini does not require the end user to know how to smelt steel. To drive it well, well that is altogether another matter. You could understand and annotate one section of the machine code in Photoshop, if you had another lifetime, but the teams that put those products together most likely did so with higher level languages, the button down vests of the programming world, hard at work. Too much work, too little time. My guess would be extensions to C++ created by working in tandem with machine language experts, as well as the folks at NVidia and the other graphics card manufacturers, ATI, Diamond (if they are still around)etc.

Paul Emery

I'm amazed that this is still being discussed. Even Ann Coulter calls Birthers a bunch of cranks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBwMJO9-pG0

Paul Emery

Todd

Thanks for assuring me that the five or so years you spent living outside Nevada County, the whitest county in the state, makes you an expert on interracial affairs.

George Rebane

TomK 1145am - Did I miss your explanation of how those pixelated artifacts appeared in the WH published image?

In answer to your questions, at this point I will still have to go with what I said here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/05/the-birth-certificate-from-hell.html
And as those who understand the school of (scientific) argumentation to which I belong, my assessment is probabilistic and therefore falsifiable, and not the simplistic black/white that is foisted and consumed daily in the public forums. I will post on this topic more fully in the near future. (Hint: see my posts on Bayesian decision making.)

Re Obama's citizenship - I have heard no one present any credible evidence that he is now not a US citizen, and will accept his current citizenship as fact. Was he or did he formerly claim to be a citizen of other countries? - that question I leave open.

(BTW, re calling high government officials liars is not much of a feat for a conservetarian or anyone of derivative stripe. I have called President Obama a liar in these pages and stand on that record. It seems that doing that when the evidence warrants is only a hot potato for progressives when encountering truth-challenged Democrats.)

Gregory

George, what you banished Frisch for were love taps compared to the abuse you've allowed Doug Keachie to ladle my way. It's harder being the target, isn't it?

They are (or were) both here to tear down, not rationally discuss *anything*.

"Please note, Ms. Cutler was not on the "White House Staff" she was on the campaign staff. Second, she did not say he committed a felony...she described a choice of two options" -Steven Frisch | 26 August 2012 at 10:08 AM

I stand corrected, but being a campaign staffer means she was serving totally at the whim of the President when she declared Romney either a liar or a felon. The Frisch attempt at drawing a moral equivalent between her and random Republican sympathizers unattached to Romney's campaign who say questionable things about Obama is indefensible.

No, I won't be voting for Romney.

TomKenworth

In reviewing the first video, you'll note that I already claimed the possibility of the Hawaiin officials assembling from a B&W birth certificate and a piece of safety paper, in a computer program. The test your 1st video guy did towards the end of his presentation was not of such a document. He ran his own combined image through a color scanner, so of course he got color fringing. Again, his references to the links are meaningless, he does no analysis of what are in those links.

BTW, in the Nordyke images, it seems possible that they were taken from microfilm, you can see the rounded shadow images typical of microfilm printouts, such as you might find in prints from the readers at the Doris Foley Library. Obama's may have gone to microfilm too, but they did a better job of cleaning up the images, before leaving the Hawaiian registrar's office.


On to video #2
On to video two

Todd Juvinall

RE: Paul Emery | 27 August 2012 at 01:14 PM

Thanks Paul. I know you seem to possess some personal form of superiority about the races so tell us about it.

In this county when I grew up I was never taught to hate anyone by my parents (except the French by my grandfather of WW1 fame), so I don't have any intrinsic racial problems with anyone. I see a person not a color. When I mover to PS that did me quite well in my friendships and even my dating. So, your snide comments mean nothing to me since obviously you and the other libs here have a propensity to look at people as a color. What a hoot!

George Rebane

Gregory 127pm - "He likes the fiction of being a decent man, a God fearing man, an intellectual, a civilized, well educated, American." Let's see, that includes character, national origin, morals, intellect, religion, education, patriotism, and possibly citizenship. To that in the past he has added 'traitor' and 'un-American'. I specifically noted the comma that preceded 'American'. We naturalized citizens take all that seriously, especially those of us who have not heard such charges at any time during our long lives in America (which included trust at the highest levels when in the service of my country), and doubly so when it comes from someone who fights daily to fundamentally transform things that I hold very dear. I will stomach his ideological apologetics but not his ad hominems. The man is a lout.

I must have missed similar or more outrageous crap in the missals you and DougK have traded on these pages. And my apologies for not being fair - a weakness that I have recognized in myself from the start. I try to be fair, and when failing I take comfort in the teachings of Kenneth Arrow and the words of a former coach, 'Never seek justice, only mercy.'

George Rebane

PaulE 110pm - I too was surprised that the birth certificate issue popped up and became such a heated thread here. I understand that there is a significant slice of Americans who still have doubts, according ongoing polls. But I don't think the case is going anywhere.

Gregory

George, defamations are defamations. Keachie gets into modes where he's inventing stuff just as bad as far as I am concerned, and as long as you see it as missals being "traded", I come here at my risk of getting crap thrown at me from Keachie or a sock puppet of his, like this latest one, "TomKenworth", that he just had laying around and decided to use here.

TomKenworth

Video two is even more ignorant than video one, fails to grasp that the documents he has of other people's birth certificates were obviously mailed to them in number ten envelops. If indeed the White House got a document from Hawaii, I rather bet it came in a full sized FEDEX envelop with no creasing whatsoever. Likewise the samples are ancient, and were not just created, but have beeen kicking around for years. Rather than pay exorbitant salaries for gov flunkies to hand squeeze each one, they now use a safety paper background.

When dude #2 ran the document through OCR he got his color fringing, and admitted that handwriting varies in thickness based on a number of factors, as does the color of the ink. He also got a whitening of the background around the letters, as predicted.

Then he does identify the the layers, and notes that all came through 90 degree out of horizontal, very machine like, except the lat one. It too was 90 degree out of horizontal, by came with a factor of 48 and not 24 like the rest. What he didn't say was that the last one was the entire document. What he also didn't say is that only a glutton for punishment would work with lettering 90 degrees out of whack. The machine code of an OCR would be the perfect candidate.

Yes I did look through all four of his videos.

I only fling what is flung, when it comes to physicists unsung, due to their fondness for dung. Back off an make nice, and I'll do the same. Continue baseless attacks, and reap the tasteless snacks.

Gregory

Regarding the Obama long form, it was clear from the start it was generated from a microfiche and either merged with a computer banknote image or, like even our County records people in the Rude center do, laser printed onto banknote paper and then scanned. Some of the birther critiques might have some validity but I doubt anyone could do a credible job of determining if there were any shenanigans without having access to the original microfiche and those of scores of others of the same vintage. In short, an uninteresting quest.

Just wait until after the election. All the junk that the mainstream press is sitting on will start dribbling out once Obama is no longer running for office, no matter which way the election goes.

If Romney/Ryan can keep on a "it's morning in America message they'll do fine. If it's about birth certificates and Romney's tax returns, they lose, unless Biden manages to uncork an Akins of his own.

TomKenworth

BTW, George, your contact information here is an endless loop, going nowhere. Please send a private email to doug2009 (a@t) kenworth.com but use my real last name, and I'll explain a few things.

TomKenworth

The thing that obviously irks Greg the most is that I caught on to his Westboro Church mode fast enough to present him only with stuff that just will go nowhere in court. It totally infuriates him, and I do enjoy it, since he's been so rude to me. Lycomings coming home to roost. Except for Greg, it's 5:20 instead of 4:20. Babe in the woods when it comes to superiority contests. Happy to call it off when he does. Can George mediate a truce?

TomKenworth

Kenworth was especially created to a twitter account that knows nothing about me. Soon I will have to use another one. very easy to make. I'd tell you why I use socks, but it has to be a secret, as you are untrustworthy when it comes to social matters and protecting the innocents, that you have been unknowingly violating for quite some time now. Another non sue-able, ain't I awful?

George Rebane

TomK 248pm - I don't really know what to do with sackheads and sock puppets. My main concern is that other readers have a source continuity for the debate and ideas presented in the comment stream attached to a post. That they be presented to you as Doug Keachie vs TomKenworth is of less/little importance to me, although I prefer that people comment over their own names.

It is up to you to provide inter-post comment stream continuity if you want readers to know that, say, TomKenworth was really Keachie was really whoever under a number of posts on RR.

(Recall, I use the convention that all the comments under a posted article comprise that post's comment stream. A given comment stream may contain more than one comment thread, as various commenters raise and pursue different topics in any given comment stream.)

billy T

The birther issue has not really ever grabbed my imagination for some reason. Not saying whether Obama was born in Timbuktu or not, just 3 and 1/2 years have come and gone. The election is in 75 days. Bad time to change Brocwurste in the middle of a screw. Just before the climax is rude and never good timing. I prefer to win in the arena of ideas concerning the future of our country.

Know a rather shy lass who does not have a birth certificate from any country. Told me her pregnant mother was abducted by aliens and the exact location of her birth has never been pinpointed. Of course I was crazy enough to believe her and a lot more words that came out of her luscious lips.

Racism will exist in the Post Singularly World. Maybe not racism as currently defined.. Maybe some just don't like people or specific people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--iKV1utN8A

Gregory

George, I've even experienced two of Keachie's sock puppets arguing against each other and tossing grenades at me. I'd guess I've seen about 30 different ones.

I can't keep up with his delusions.

The "Westboro" snipe is especially bizarre. How it might makes sense to Keachie is beyond my ken, as I have nothing at all in common with evangelicals, especially those.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church

billy T

Wow Gregory. Sounds like Westboro Baptist Church is an equal opportunity offender. They definitely are not prejudice or bigoted.. They hate everybody. Jews and Catholics and Protestants and Hindus and Muslims equally. Wonder if they like Wickens?

Gregory

George, the 'birther' thing was started by Frisch up at the top. Personally, I thought the Romney quip was a great way to allude to the birther issue without supporting the birthers one whit. It is true that Romney's life has been an open book in the public domain compared to Obama's.

TomKenworth

"Not saying whether Obama was born in Timbuktu" BLT

ah, that would make him local to Nevada County!

TomKenworth

"Romney quip was a great way to allude to the birther issue without supporting the birthers one whit."

Just as I never insult you, Greg, same principle at work. We do seem to missing some important information about Romney's adventures as a businessman. We need to know if his way of doing business is a way that is suitable for running the country. Something that 10 years of tax returns would go a long ways to clear up. Not forthcoming, now is it?

Greg has threaten to sue various folks for various imagined pains, which is what he has in common with the Westboro extortionists. No I did not call Greg an extortionist, I simply said he had something in common with them. No you didn't say the Obama certificate was a lie, you just said it couldn't be proven to be true. Chit for Chat.

Gregory

"Greg has threaten to sue various folks for various imagined pains"

Bizarre. Keachie has me confused with Pelline, Haynes, Mike Anderson and himself who have all made such noises in the past.

I also didn't say the certificate "couldn't be proven to be true" and, to the contrary, wrote of one way to do it. Not that it's worth doing. In the meantime, taking the word of the State of Hawaii seems appropriate.

Really, Keach, there's enough reality without trying to invent more of it.

[Note to George: please notice that this is the way those missals are "traded"... Keach makes up outrageous statements, and I can either defend myself or let it stand unchallenged.]

TomKenworth

I'm not going to waste George and everyone else's time listing all the gutter potty lickspittles Greg has concocted down through the years, and the various references to potential legal proceedings he's brought up, we're all aware of them. I'll just shortly go over to the next sock so as to get his panties all in a knot over them, and do his little Wazuli Warrior dance some more, striving ever after the Crown of Conan, the physicist.

Gregory

George, does that 5:47 meet your standards? Pure innuendo.

TomKenworth

"No you didn't say the Obama certificate was a lie, you just said it couldn't be proven to be true. Chit for Chat"

Not directed at Greg, but he loves it all and claims it for himself.

TomKenworth

I will say one thing for you Greg, you've taught me extremely well how to be intentional vague and misleading, so as to get a whack in down the road.

George Rebane

Gregory 552pm - the 547pm et al are totally unworthy of your attention, and ignoring such would soon make going for your hot buttons an enterprise abandoned.

billy T

Off topic, but saw come a couple of eery similarities with the title of Dr, Rebane's column.

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/08/27/time-to-arrest-more-economists-in-argentina/

Gregory

George, 26 August 2012 at 10:56 PM,

The Frisch 2:18 ~ 10:58 were totally unworthy of your attention, and ignoring such would soon make going for your hot buttons an enterprise abandoned. And were arguable more in touch with reality than any of the Keachie delusions.

Gregory

Now, regarding Keachie, he's described his North San Juan homestead as a veritable armed camp with motion detectors, cameras and fences. I think that's most common in NSJ among the militia nutcases and also the pot growers.

Which is it?

TomKenworth

Not related to either, except by proximity. You're off topic again.

Gregory

The reason Keachie thinks I've been vague is entirely due to his reading comprehension. And I've never threatened to sue anyone. Keach, there's a better chance you've a major pot grow ready for harvest than any of your claims about my actions and words have a chance to be true.

There's a reason Keachie can't quote me on any of his claims. Supporting quotes do not exist. Pure fantasy from a fevered imagination that spent decades leading California public school classrooms.

Michael Anderson

Here I am, fresh back from The Best Burning Man Ever for a little work break, and I see you kids are roiled in yet another Tar Baby Circus. Egads!, as the cartoon readers used to say in that old, rotten 20th century.

Catch a plane to Nirvana (and not Silly at all, I have to tell you). Enjoy the best show on the planet before it's over. This may be your last chance. Ya never know what's gonna happen next year, this could be the last one (-;

The silly ticket lottery kinda backfired, and now there are a plethora of tickets, @ $200 and below. The price is dropping by the minute. Air charters are standing by to whisk you to another dimension.

Here's a link that explains how best to get a bus ride (air or ground) to the largest avant garde art festival on the planet: http://www.portofentry.org/?page_id=2

Todd Juvinall

I read that only pervs, pagans and nudists go to the Burning Man. Are you sure you want everyone to know you went?

Gregory

1%ers who want to hobnob with performance artists from the 99% should check out the Centurion Flight Service charter flights:
http://centurionfs.com/burningman/index.html

The Kodiak jetprop is a very cool airplane (I spent some time in their maintenance hangar checking it out during a 100 hour inspection), and Burning Man is their Christmas season selling charter flights to Burners who don't actually want to spend much time there or wait in line. As long as Cartman and Cthulu stay away, they should do fine.

Todd, Burning Man is a magnet for undercover officers, Federal and Nevada State. Think of BM as shovel ready jobs. Plus, I have some very normal (normal for artists, that is) friends who go to Burning Man, it isn't just for pervs and nudists.

billy T

Gregory, thanks for the information. My counter culture days got me in a wee bit of trouble a time or 20. Today I do not drink or dope and don't like sleeping in the desert or crowds. Just shut er down. But, pervs and nudes are still allowed, right?

Paul Emery

Where did you hear that Todd? Pervs etc...

billy T

Skunk smells his own first, lol. And if it offends ya, you own it. I love this blog.

TomKenworth

Greg is experiencing a mild case of litigation instigation mitigation, and with friends like him with flying machines, I'd be as foolish as he would like to describe me, should I even attempt a grow. BTW, the patch on the eastern boundary near the northern edge, if it's there this year, is just off our property. With music, Greg can keep in time, but he can't rhyme on a dime, and he wastes everyone's time, with mooning and monkeyshines. It's amazing how easy it is to set him off for the next windsock, coming soon, to a blogport near you.

TomKenworth

If it get cheap enough, I might go, but have no idea of the logistics? You have to join up with a vehiclke that already have water taken care of? Or can you still drive yourself in and park? No dogs and no ownership right for photographs has always been a big turnoff for me. Plus, my wife, younger than me, still works, and I already take a week off for GDC.

Todd Juvinall

: Paul Emery | 28 August 2012 at 08:48 AM

Personal stories and articles as well of attendees.

TomKenworth

Some say the Tea Party is totally perverted patriotism running away from the basic founding tenets of this country.

George Rebane

TomK 218pm - You might be a mite modest here. I would say that that has been the stock progressive accusation since the Tea Parties started. It is also the stock application of the Alinsky Alternative.

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