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« ‘American capitalism gone with a whimper’ | Main | Ruminations 6oct12 - 8oct12 »

04 October 2012

Comments

Walt

Something sure took the wind out of our progressive's sails.
They were sure hot to make posts after the Lib convention
and pound their chests to beat King Kong. NOW,,,, crickets.

Break out the popcorn when Paul and Joe have their turn.
If you thought this debate was Lib bummer, they might as well
have an ambulance ready for Joe Paul will tear him a new orifice or two.

Scott Obermuller

These so-called debates never seem to have a much substance, so I rarely watch. That would include this one. They can be viewed later anyway, so unless I hear that one of the candidates laid a big egg or carved the other guy up for lunch, I give them a pass. Usually, the incumbent tries to simply play it safe and let the challenger get over-confidant in his attacks and come off as strident or hyper-zealous. The challenger tries to go on the offensive and rattle the incumbent with out coming off as offensive or desperate. Obama's record is one big pile of lies and incompetence. All he has to run on is a post-modern narrative of "caring" and "trying to give everyone a fair shot". Romney seems to understand what needs to be done in a vague, theoretical sort of way, but golly! - he sure doesn't want to step on any one's toes or seem pushy or rude. He was raised to be polite. The Wednesday after election day, we will still be the same nation we are right now. Primarily, broke and sinking deeper into debt every hour at a rate that would have caused absolute panic 20 years ago. Secondarily, a nation divided as deeply, if not more so, than in the 1860's. About 1/2 of us understand and want a Constitutional fed govt and the other 1/2 want a Euro-styled post-modern govt that believes they have a "right" to what ever they want at any given moment.
The only moment of comedy in the whole presidential debate Hoo-Ha was AlGore declaring that he thought Obama suffered from lack of acclimatizing himself to the altitude. He would know, since he seems to be suffering himself from a lack of oxygen since birth.
Lest anyone castigate me as some one who carps, but has no constructive answer, I politely say that any candidate (anyone!) can post a thesis or platform outlining their world views, details of programs and goals, instructions to the unwashed, answers to questions and criticism and so on. It would be a running, on-going black and white blue print of what they believe and offer to the electorate. I would be following their posts (regardless of party affiliation) closely and would respect them far more for their upfront and honest thoughts than any oratorical yodelings and one liners. It would, of course, be political suicide for any candidate to actually do any of that. It's been noted that we (collectively) get the b*****d we deserve and so far, it rings pretty much true.
I voted for the real black guy in the last presidential election. Keyes didn't need to change his speech patterns or dialects to suite the rubes. Maybe I'll write in Allen West this time. He seems to have a thick skin and acknowledges his mistakes. He also only has one speech pattern and I know he can kick ass when needed. I live in Kalifornia and the powers that be have decided my vote isn't going to count toward the electoral college anyway, unless I vote for Obama. This, from the same exact folk that soak their public hankies on a regular basis over the evils of those that would dis-enfranchise the voters.
There's a photograph (I should look for it) taken about 10 years ago, of civilians crawling under automatic weapon fire in order to vote. Please think about that when ever you hear about how "difficult" it is to vote in this country. For those of you who complain about the "long" election cycle and how "sick" you are of political ads and electioneering, please remove yourselves, pronto, to Syria and report back to me (if you are still alive) how much better it is there. Sadly, there is only one group of citizens (living, that is) in this country that can honestly complain of not being certain their vote will count and that's our men and women in uniform. Shame on the Democrats and shame on our country for that.

TomKenworth

A real debate would come with charts and graphs and sources, and candidates making reference to both their set of informations and their opponents set of information. This repetition of 1859 is so unbecoming of a modern 21st century nation.

billy T

Saw some of the debate on reruns. Loved it how Gov. Romney corrected President Obama over tax breaks for sending jobs overseas. Congress has never written tax breaks for sending jobs out of the country. And all this time I even believed the big lie. Say it often enough and people think its true.

Obama was pounding again on what government can do for you. Romney pounded on the private sector as the job creators, which in turn get people off food stamps and pours money into the Treasury. The Great Divide.

Jon Steward tweeted during the festivities "Get Obama a prompter!" Al Gore said Denver's high attitude affected Obama's performance. He should have acclimated himself before sparing. "Can we move on to another topic?"

I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it would be style over substance. I am now hopeful it just might be substance over style. Facts matter.

I felt sorry for Mr. President. Jim Lehrer did not protect him. No prompter. Every argument put forth proved to be a big lie. His core beliefs were exposed as flawed. Obama's cures are worse than the problems. The challenger looked like the leader. Nowhere to hide, nowhere to run. The best the libs can come up with is Obama was having a conversation with the American people. Really, that is a good one.


THEMIKEYMCD

Rebane, is this "granular" enough for you? Biden and his ilk would have been lining Jews up for 'train rides' decades ago. Their message? Hate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_yc2zBmOmNE

"On top of the trillions of dollars of spending that we have already cut, we’re gonna ask – yes – we’re gonna ask the wealthy to pay more," said Biden. "My heart breaks, come on man. You know the phrase they always use? Obama and Biden want to raise taxes by a trillion dollars. Guess what? Yes we do in one regard. We want to let that trillion dollar tax cut expire so the middle class doesn’t have to bear the burden of all that money going to the super wealthy. That’s not a tax raise, that’s called fairness where I come from."

Ryan Mount

Mikey-

More pandering and patronizing rhetoric.

I'm assuming Biden is referring to the Bush tax cuts which will pound the middle class if they don't get rolled back?

TomKenworth

So you want a President who is a cheater and breaks the rules? You've got him! Caught on tape at the beginning of the debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQZ5_qdHLV8

Ryan Mount

You know what's embarrassing? Is the Obama-bots desperately trying to find an excuse for why he didn't show up on Wednesday. At first it was entertaining watching them gnash their teeth. Now it's embarrassing. Suddenly Obama supporters are sounding like Glenn Beck.

So rather than introspection, they lash out like victims: Romney lied (they lied on numerous occasions. Well they both certainly stretched the truth); it was the altitude; Obama didn't have time to prep because he was too busy making appearances on the View; he had a "off day"; and now this. The note-laden handkerchief probably torn from his temple garments.

TomKenworth

Show me that is is a handkerchief that he used for anything other than cheating. Then talk about his character.

Ryan Mount

tin foil. Of all the things we have to worry about. But heck, at least we have labels for everyone now. And an excuse.

If Romney wins, which I doubt, then the Democrats will have their "missiles/ufos/Bush took down the twin towers" narrative for the election.

Walt

Obummer couldn't even look Mitt in the eye. But Mitt stared "O" down when addressing him. All "O" would do is look down and nod his head in agreement when the cold hard facts where placed at his shiny shoes. No teleprompter to come to his aid and defence.

Now that "O" has his prized tinted glass back, he sure has plenty to say.

Now that the jobs report is out ( fuzzy math and all) he's back to "look at me! I did that! Unemployment has dropped".
Only fools believe the published unemployment count.
Remember,,, those that do not receive U.E. are not counted in any way shape or form. Nor are the under employed.
But HAY!! the numbers sure look better. ( screw reality "O" needs to try and keep his job. It's the only one he cares about.)

THEMIKEYMCD

One beauty of being an independent thinker is being able to be objective. I opined before the debate that "this is where Obama will shine and distance himself even more from Romney." I could not have been more wrong and I am man enough to admit it.

I think Romney is hungry and Obama's tongue atrophied after 4 years of getting tossed softballs by the MSM. Obama doesn't have a chance (without lying) in the foreign policy debate but I think he will have a stellar 2008-like performance (used literally) at one of the next 2 debates.

THEMIKEYMCD

How does Romney's handkerchief presence account for Obama's tongue being tied (rhetorical)! LOL.

Ryan Mount

The next "debate" (quotes deliberate) is a town hall format. Romney has an uphill climb there. The last one is on foreign policy, which Obama will look like a buffoon.

With regards to Romney's pocket podium temple garment (see above) that's making its way around the Internets, Obama spent **3 days** in Nevada prepping for this debate. If he couldn't learn his lines with that devotion, something is very wrong.

THEMIKEYMCD

Agreed Ryan on all counts (10:56am)

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain” -Churchill
CONTINUED...
And if you're not a Libertarian at seventy you're probably dead.

George Rebane

Mikey 1117am - speaking from beyond the grave, I hope that we can take the time to fully explore the reality of your libertarian foreign policy, as opposed to that embraced by this conservetarian. Maybe after the election?

THEMIKEYMCD

Why wait (Rebane 12:10pm)? But, I must commend your updated post, especially when you wrote "..why their Messiah finally got his socks wet traversing the Galilee"- loved it!

I have a paper wasps nest in an Oak tree outside my front door. If I had arrogantly/haphazardly 'attacked' it at 2am when my dog drew my attention to it I would now be suffering. For upon further review (with natural light) my middle-of-the-night attacks would have done nothing but exacerbate the problem (pissing off the wasps and multiplying future nests).

I am thankful that my encounter occurred when I had my wits about me. What would my plan have been the morning after a failed attempt?

I hope by now you can see the parallels to our countries ugly foreign policy past AND THE PROBLEM THAT FACES A PEACE LOVING LIBERTARIAN. Past 'leaders' (term used loosely) have put our country into the position of puppet master (occupier) without regard to precedent, exit strategy, attainable objectives... in other words past 'leaders' have kicked the wasp nest and handed over the keys to the farm laden with wasps. I hope this is at least somewhat coherent :)

THEMIKEYMCD

conservetarian works.

It would be a lot easier to be at peace if the USA did not spend decades kicking the wasps nest. Now, I would promote the managed homecoming of our troops abroad 'yesterday.' In the case of the middle east I think it would serve us best to leave our weaponry/ordnance there.

“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain” -Churchill
CONTINUED...
And if you're not a Libertarian/conservetarian at seventy you're probably dead.

Ryan Mount

Mikey, we broke it so we had to buy it.

Regarding handkerchief-gate:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/romney-cheat-sheet-was-a-handkerchief-campaign

Maybe we should go back to the altitude excuse?

George Rebane

Mikey 116pm - "... without regard to precedent, exit strategy, attainable objectives..." My conservetarian modus operandi would not have us project force without appropriately accounting for the prior planning list you started. Maintaining the power to remain the world's hegemon (aka sheriff), and properly executing that office are separate (orthogonal) issues. My pea-brain cannot see an acceptable (to America, its objectives and principles) world with today's players and their geo-strategic objectives, without our having the ability to do what we can barely but still do now.

Pulling back into our geographical cocoon, castrating our military, and retaining only the MAD option in our silos paints a bleak world. One that IMHO will see real wars (not the glorified police actions of Iraq and Afghanistan) within a year of the date we can no longer operate three carrier task groups in the western Pacific and the European theater.

Paul Emery

I'm with Mikey on this one. Economically we cannot feed the military beast we created to police the world. We'll likely go down like the Soviet Union in the 80's when they couldn't afford the cold war and finally quit.

A quick note on the "debate" Romney may have won the debate on style points but he is such a remarkable hypocrite and added immensely to his resume of being the "flipper". The man is an empty suit and believes in nothing. It remains to be seen if he actually changed a significant number of votes. Incumbents have won lost four of the last five first debates and cruised to victory.

From Nate Silver
"....the first debate has normally helped the challenger. In the nine elections between 1976 and 2008, there were only two years when the incumbent-party candidate gained ground relative to the challenger; these cases were 1976, when Gerald R. Ford halved his six-point deficit with Jimmy Carter, and 1988, when George H.W. Bush moved just slightly further ahead of Michael Dukakis.

But on average, the challenging-party candidate gained a net of one and a half percentage points on the incumbent-party candidate......"

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/03/first-debate-often-helps-challenger-in-polls/

George Rebane

PaulE 259pm - With that enthusiastic interpretation of the debate, I look forward to your electoral college entry on Monday in our little competition.

BTW, the USSR went down the tubes economically for many more significant reasons than not affording the cold war. Their system was broken from literally every aspect of human economic and social behavior, there was no incentive for anyone to exert themselves in creating wealth they could not keep. Sorta like the direction obamunism is designed to take us.

Walt

Mitt cheated?? Now that's a good one. ( proof desperation is setting in)Need more? hear Joe today? Good GOD!,, he is nutting up. Someone break out the straight jacket and duct tape.
It will be more than entertaining to hear the masterdebater Joe unscripted when he goes against Ryan.

On another note, even Taiwanese have spoofed the debate and know "O" got whooped but good.

Here is their take on it. If you have a weak bladder, I suggest you grab a pair of depends before viewing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNhUI8ktHuw&feature=player_embedded

The full story is here.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/romney-roundhouse-kicks-obama-through-a-wall-in-the-hysterical-taiwanese-animation-of-the-debate/

Scott Obermuller

This is hilarious. Paul is suddenly worried about what we can afford. Just the interest on our debt at real market levels (never mind the original loan amount) and the cost of social programs will soon dwarf the defence budget by several multiples. We can't afford a shot gun but that round the world tour and new Ferrari are must haves. Try learning some basic arithmetic, Paul. Even a Democrat from NY knew that all other promises were worthless if we are dead.

Walt

"O" has just shown his true colors, and how he views hard work. If this doesn't make your blood boil, call an undertaker.
( or the nearest Communist recruitment center)

"Our economy does not grow from the top-down, it grows from the middle-out. We do not believe that anybody is entitled to success in this country. But we do believe in opportunity"

This is from Ahole's latest "vote for me" speech.
Dear Leader has shown his true colors.
Most of us already knew this..But actually hearing the words come out of his mouth is a whole new dawn.

The sad thing is, most of our Progressive pals will still vote for this piece of...... work.

So how many of you with a "D" next to your name feel we are not entitled to being successful? And you want to give him a second term? Get your head examined.

billy T

Man, came home to glance at the jobs report. Seems nobody believes it. 6 of out of 8 landed part time jobs. Christmas help and all that. Some left the Democrat plantation and became self employed.

Economy is slowing. Obamacare was going to pay for itself with a 4-5% GDP growth rate. What a joke. The forecast was over 2%, the 2.o%, then 1.7% rate....for the LAST quarter. Expect the usual downgrade for both the number of net jobs created and what the 3rd quarter GNP really was.

I won't go as far as Jack Welch, but he is on to something. The data even elicited a conspiracy theory from former General Electric CEO Jack Welch, who tweeted: "Unbelievable jobs numbers..these Chicago guys will do anything..can't debate so change numbers."

I kinda agree with this dude: Liberal economist Dean Baker, with the Center for Economic and Policy Research, called the September rate drop "almost certainly a statistical fluke."

If this what the Obama job plan and recovery looks like, I shutter to think what another 4 years of the community organizer will smell like. Perhaps a better question to pose is "Do you think you will be better off 4 years from now???

George Rebane

Dear People - The required SUSTAINED GDP annual growth rate is over 5% just to keep the present level of unemployed at 24M. We have never done that in modern times, and as I explain in some detail, we will not be able to do that ever again with current workforce and productivity growth rates. This barn has been circled on RR, but is yet to be even recognized in Congress. Please review the developments here
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/09/headwinds-for-the-american-worker.html , and here http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/09/the-real-jobs-problem-shhh.html

Then again, maybe it is understood in the dark recesses of the federal government, and that is why DHS is laying in the heavy armaments pointed at American citizens.

TomKenworth

No pankie in the Romney hankie? I doubt that very much. I would guess information on hankie because of the nature of the material. It doesn't make noise when unfolded, and, in case of discovery, a quick release of a gas up Mitt's sleeve would render the letters invisible. Mitt got caught receiving directed sound some time back. Reagan raised taxes came out of nowhere onto Mitt's mike, before Mitt answered.

It would be so simple to find other footage of Mitt going up to a podium and spreading his hankie, if indeed that was a habit of his. How many other times has Mitt thrown in his towel, or his referee flag, in the past? Easy to check, if fact checkers were on the ball. Next time, cameras pointed straight down at podiums, thank-you.

TomKenworth

Of pssible interest? http://carboncredits.carboncapturereport.org/cgi-bin//profiler?key=George_Rebane&pt=2#relatedorgs You can run this on yourself as well. We are all being tracked by db Cougers.

Paul Emery

Three trillion for our wars in Iraq and Afgan no problem right Scott? Just chump change. No problem with US taxpayers funding the police force of the world? Sure. More truckloads of cash for Iraq mullahs.

"Donald Rumsfeld took possession of the Iraqi trust fund and had delivered in cash. Carried by tractor trailer from the Federal Reserve in New York to Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland, it was then flown directly to Baghdad.......

Pentagon officials have since described the days in May 2004 when $12 billion dollars in cash was air-lifted from the US Treasury directly to Iraq. C-130 Hercules cargo planes were used on the 20-plus missions. In what became the largest international cash air-lift in history, the giant aircraft were stuffed full bags and crates full of cold hard cash. Uniformly bundled in shrink-wrapped bricks of $100 dollar bills, the money was packed into anything and everything the military could find to carry it."

http://www.whiteoutpress.com/articles/wach/us-loses-6-billion-of-iraq-s-money742/

TomKenworth

Well Paul, the beat goes on, although at not so brisk a pace, a paltry 600 million in socialists dollars to help private companies goes profitable:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/05/us-space-spacex-idUSBRE8941GP20121005

George Rebane

TomK 1215am - I'm sorry about your understanding of government contracting. FYI, the money SpaceX and other private contractors was for services performed that NASA could not replicate either quicker, better, or cheaper. We still need to do our contractual part at the ISS, but as you may recall, under Obama NASA's new emphasis is to "promote better relations with the Muslim world."

Scott Obermuller

Paul - the money we poured into Afghanistan and Iraq had little to do with policing the world. You were bemoaning the cost of being the world's sheriff. I think we can agree on the outrageous cost of being the world's welfare system and the cost of "diplomacy" in buying off "friends". The military budget is one thing and the amount of money we spend in building infrastructure in countries that can't afford to simply feed themselves is another. I realize it does get mixed in with the military as the military becomes the delivery system for the social programs. This is a misuse of our military. They are great for emergency rescue operations and immediate relief from natural disasters, but not for the kind of ongoing nonsense that has taken place in the middle east. it is the natural order of things that one country will emerge as the most powerful militarily. That country needs to be our country.
We cut our military budget at our peril. I never turn a blind eye at waste in govt including the military, so please don't think that I would hand them a blank check. Your tale of billions in cash going to the middle east was laughable. No - I don't think we should be doing that, but the amount of money that you got all wide eyed about was peanuts compared to what goes on every hour at the federal level. 12 big ones? Ooooooh - since it was in a physical form and had weight and volume, it became a real amount to you libs. QE3 alone puts out that much every week! Indefinitely. We can afford being the sheriff, but we can't afford the social programs and a govt that doesn't operate according to Constitutional principles. That will surely bankrupt us.

Paul Emery

Scott

I'm sure there are lots of cities and counties that could use 12 billion to improve their infrastructure but we chose to give it away by the truckload to mullahs to buy off their support be it ever so brief, That's all part of of the Bush legacy of our tragic war in Iraq. I'm sure Obama does the same thngs but perhaps in not such graphic style supervised by our Secretary of Defense (Rummy).

Nevada county could use just a pickup load to help with our roads and schools but no. We pay the tax, it goes to Washington, they print up the dough and send it out by the semi load to whomever we want to buy out. We then, to quote Romney, borrow money from China to pay the bills.

Time to come home and takd care of our own needs first.

TomKenworth

@George, 8:28 am, so if the government contracts to have solar panels purchased and installed on government buildings, like say the parking structures in Marysville and Sierra College, you have no problem with that? Who created the jobs in such cases, the companies or the government?

On another note, relating to the debate, debating skills are by no means and end-all. Case in point:

Long-Shot Mayoral Candidate

In late 2000 Bloomberg switched his longtime political affiliation from registered Democrat to registered Republican in order to give him a better chance in the following year's mayoral race in New York City. The Democratic field was historically a crowded one in the primary race, and Bloomberg won the public support of the city's outgoing mayor, Rudolph W. Giuliani (born 1944), a Republican. Despite that endorsement, few considered Bloomberg a serious contender. “His gifts on the stump were minimal: He was brusque, infelicitous, maladroit, utterly unvisionary,” wrote John Heilemann in New York magazine.

New York City's Democratic and Republican mayoral primaries were scheduled for September 11, 2001, and were halted after just a few hours of polling when two airliners hit the towers of the World Trade Center and the city descended into chaos. As Heilemann noted, suddenly “the mood of the electorate darkened. What voters wanted now was an equable hand to keep the economy afloat and the city from unraveling.” The primary was rescheduled, and Bloomberg bested his nearest Republican challenger, former Bronx borough president Herman Badillo (born 1929). In the weeks leading up to the election, Bloomberg set a new record for New York City mayoral campaign spending at $74 million. He beat the Democratic challenger, the city's public advocate, Mark J. Green (born 1945), by a margin of two percentage points

George Rebane

TomK 130pm - Let me start with debating skills. Please note that it has long and recently been my point on debates, that the skills prized most are those not most useful in executing the office. But if a debate is held, then it should be a deliberate affair proceeding at a dignified pace with the use of all the notes, graphic aids, and other information at hand to substantiate points advanced or countered.

Such debates would take about as long as the performance of Wagner's complete Ring Cycle, and would unfortunately be of interest to the same number of people. The debate should be conducted over a number of days in, say, half hour segments. That would give both sides ample time to assemble the supporting materials for an information rich presentation. It should follow fairly closely the protocol of a judicial proceeding. To me such a debate would be of compelling interest, I'd be at the edge of my chair.

Your government contracts question is an ever popular one that gets batted around between liberals (arguing mostly Keynesian perspective) and conservatives (arguing the private sector perspective). What gets lost immediately in such discussions is that the problem is not just jobs, but wealth producing jobs (WPJs). The second casualty is jobs that support the accepted functions of government. Here there is a wide divergence between the two sides where one has a hard time identifying any human activity in which government is not a partner or overseer.

Governments must first take money from the private sector through taxation, inflation, and/or borrowing (deferred taxation) to fund its functions. Since government is very poor at picking winners and has a knack for solyndrizing, I believe government should stick to prime functions like national defense, large infra-structure projects, and law enforcement in which it uses private sector contractors to the maximum extent. (BTW, only naifs believe that space exploration is not a national security function.)

Job creation is never the problem; it's creating those WPJs that's a high hurdle for government, and comes naturally to the private sector that is minimally regulated and taxed. Obama's crowing about creating some 4M new jobs - many government wealth consuming jobs (WCJs) - since he's been in office impresses only those who don't know that a marketplace left to its own devices would have created in excess of 10M WPJs in the same interval. But that is small comfort in a post-tipping point society where dumbth can again carry the day as it did in 2008.

In the 1930s there was no depression in the USSR. Stalin had created over 50M government jobs. Western media pundits were shown large infra-structure projects and happy Potemkin villages full of thousands upon thousands of workers. Too bad they were all busy at WCJs, but that was not reported by the lamestream in newspapers read by our unemployed workers standing in soup lines. They cheered when FDR turned the screws on capitalism and created another wealth consuming alphabet agency. We all know how the problem was solved.

Scott Obermuller

Paul - I see we agree on one thing: "We pay the tax, it goes to Washington, they print up the dough and send it out by the semi load to whomever we want to buy out. We then, to quote Romney, borrow money from China to pay the bills." This will end only when we start following the Constitution. Until then, the very thing you hate will continue. If Nevada County wants to fix it's schools and roads why should any one else in the world pay for it? That 12 billion we're talking about here should never have been printed or authorized to be spent anywhere. The idea that we can just bring all of our armed forces home and fix everything here is laughable. We have been throwing money at social problems by the train load for decades and the social problems keep getting worse. Anyone in this country can be as wealthy as they choose. They choose to lead sorry lives and blame everyone but themselves. The only thing squashing the working poor and the middle class right now is the govt. As long as you want a nanny state to run every thing, this is what you'll get. Just look at Europe. Even Germany is in trouble. They all went "green" by govt edict - how's that working out for them? Remember that the first carbon auction is coming up soon in California and our energy costs will be "necessarily skyrocketing"! I'm sure a few well connected folks at the top will make a killing and the working poor and middle class will have higher bills. It's what the left wanted and we are all going to pay.

TomKenworth

" Anyone in this country can be as wealthy as they choose." Not really, there is a limit to the number of wealthy folks if the primary way to get there is off the backs of other working stiffs, by organizing and getting the work for them to do.

TomKenworth

If everyone studies real long and hard, and they all become rocket scientists, rocket scientists will be paid minimum wage. Remember back in the late 1980's, when folks who knew PageMaker got $60/hour and higher? Not anymore. Staples will hire you as a computer tech, but you will start at minimum wage.

Scott Obermuller

There's a limit? What is it? ..........I'm waiting......"the primary way to get there is off the backs of other working stiffs" Facts and statistics, please. It's all voluntary, Tom. Did you volunteer to hold your ankles? Did you? I'm waiting.....
Who's talking about rocket scientists? Every few years there's a story about a school teacher that dies and leaves a legacy of millions to charity. And there is the requisite head scratching as to how in the world a school teacher could possibly amass that kind of money. It turns out that it's really not that hard to do. The problem with Tom Worthless is that he and his fellow travelers think that they should be able to choose any sort of career they want and squander their money and still end up as millionaires. I said that if you want to be rich, you can do it. You do have to work and save and be disciplined. But anyone, including poor blacks from the ghetto can, and have done it. That is a fact. If you don't like it, go pound sand. You have no rights to any that are not enumerated in the Bill of Rights. I didn't see any that guaranteed you would make a dime just doing anything you want to. You have to work at being rich no matter what type of work that entails. If you want to look through a view finder and push a button, then you only get what the public is willing to pay. The only entity beating down the public is the govt and the public are begging for more. Sounds like mental illness, to me.

billy T

Mr. Obermuller, nice post. Minimum wage is a red herring, a definite non-issue. Facts are that most people stay on minimum wage for a very short period of time. Any person that can show up and not be a slacker will get a wage increase voluntarily by the employer, also in a relatively short period of time.

Just ask any convenience store clerk or farm worker or gardener or dish washer or employee at Mickey D's how much they make after 6 months and you would be surprised. They won't get rich, but few work at minimum wage.

Guess we have minimum wage laws to protect the sluggard and the whiner.

Russ Steele

TK, how do you feel about CalSTRS investing in solar plants? Kate Grimes at the CalWatchDog writes:

Nearly every time I pick up the newspaper, the headline screams that another solar plant has closed and the business gone under. Yet I see that the California State Teachers’ Retirement System is investing $42.8 million in a large solar plant in Sacramento.

“Investing” was the term used.

A Solar plant’s primary revenue stream is tax credits. So why would CalSTRS be interested in tax credits? And why would a retirement system need tax credits? …especially when much of the solar industry has been totally discredited as phony investments propped up by federal “stimulus” money.

“The California State Teachers’ Retirement System said the investments are part of its 2-year-old commitment to infrastructure,” the Sacramento Bee reported. “The pension fund has $750 million invested in the field.”

Something smells fishy.

According to one Capitol insider, CalSTRS thinks they are following all the safe money.  They apparently are also banking on a guaranteed return because of the 2011 Renewable Portfolio Standard, which requires that 33 percent of all of California’s energy will need to be from renewable resources by year 2020.

CalSTRS balance sheets lately aren’t looking really hot.  Some political insiders are predicting that there will be a “Green” Swan moment in 2013, and investors will really be looking for guarantees then.

With all solar companeis going in the tank, do your feel secure that Cal STRS knows what they are doing? Do you support this effort? Why?

George Rebane

billyT 634am - well noted Mr Tozer. But that shibboleth is a mainstay of the progressive propaganda pump because a sufficiently large (perhaps smaller than 47%) of their constituency is made up of sluggards and whiners. After all, they have to vote for somebody, don't they?

ScottO 1015pm - The story bears repeating in its various forms and often. It is the real message of hope and change for the rest of us - those who decide that they have the gumption to do it. My family is among the millions arriving here with nothing but our culture who got to work (no job was too humble for us) and made their move, asking nothing from government except room to maneuver.

TomKenworth

My point still stands. Mathematically you can't have everyone a business owner, the surest way to become a millionaire. Learn to do something others will pay for. Hire others to do the work for you, pay them roughly 1/3 of the gross of what they bring in. Then set up a second shop far enough away to attract new customers without diluting your current base. Plaza Tire is a perfect example of this in action. Yes business owner is a full time overtime job, but mathematically you have to have just one at the top collecting the other 2/3rds of the cash to run the business and make those millions (or at least try to) For every artist, inventor, musician, athlete and actor out there, you have far more business folks. These basic facts are never taught in school, as they should be. School boards are made up often of business people, because the first rule of business, is "eliminate competition (better yet, squash it before it starts), any way you can, and for God's sake don't explain this aspect of financial life to everyone's kids, just pass it on at the dinner table."

As for after six months wage increases try this on for size: I started at Nowell's lamps in Sausalito with a promise of a wage increase in two months, starting at minimum wage. I was starting my third month there when my experienced co-worker, there for over one year, announced he had gotten a raise. He was very good, was teaching me a lot (I can fix and construct brass lamps, drill ceramic vases, buff brass) I asked for details and found out that he now made a proud 10% above minimum wage, whoopie do, despite being an excellent worker. Boss will tell you anything, but pay you as little as they think they can get away with. I quit the next day, and went back to substitute teaching at $44/day, despite the commute.

billy T

“With Romney on the rebound, I think Big Bird ought to worry. Thanksgiving is coming up.”

-- Charles Krauthammer on “Special Report with Bret Baier.”


TomKenworth

As for little old ladies leaving behind fortunes, that is entirely possible, because statistically someone, somewhere, just has to get lucky with nearly every stock pick. You know, like the Clintons and Whitewater, over and over again. This is very different from the statically much greater numbers of folks who leave fortunes made in business. In neither case do we talk about the other end of the scale, the unsuccessful and the unlucky, despite hard work and money invested (gambled).

TomKenworth

I predict thta in California Big Bird will get at least 10,000 write-in votes, better than my pick of Neil deGrasse Tyson, in this Obama-safe state.

billy T

Mr. Kenworth:

First, employers that do not give increases in compensation without the employee asking for them (or earning them) is an employer that either is a bad business person or one that has constant turnovers. The other possibility is that the employee is not worth it. Time on the job is less important than what one does on the job. I agree that there are some out there that are so tight they squeak when they walk. My experiences are different from your experiences. In the early 80's I had a clerk at the unemployment office ask me for a job, lol. I have also been asked by those that run local non profits here if I would hire them. I am just a dumb college dropout and I usually don't employee folks that have plaques on the wall. But, those days are gone. I am an hourly guy now. Less headaches and better bennies. Also, when self employed, my boss was a Class A anal cavity.

Second, I will cut you a lot of slack concerning the state of affairs, especially here in the Golden State. The system is set up for the very rich and the very poor and those who are mentally challenged. The ones in the middle are being squeezed like a rotten tomato until all the guts and seeds squirt out. Taxes, utilities, gas at the pump, groceries, and a myriad of user fees and surcharges for breathing air. Add to that the declining manufacturing base in California, the collapsing education system, sins of our forefathers, competition from abroad and from other states and you have something that resembles Greece. Or Japan.

These are merely challenges. Opportunities if you prefer. I started in grammar school moving lawns for 50 cents, and later working at summer camps. 25 bucks a week for 12 hour days, 6 days. Not bad for a 15 year old kid who got to spent summers in the mountains and out of trouble. I worked as a soda jerk on weekend evenings in high school. Walked 6 miles (literally) to the place. Minimum wage was $1.65/hour, but cause I was under age they paid me $1.45/hour to "employee the youth". Could not work past 10pm per CA law, but I did anyway. Guess I did not mind giving up weekend nights in high school.

Nowadays some would say I stole a poor family's job. I worked through two years of private universities and loaded freight cars at night. Made more than my professors did, lol. I love history. I pulled my history professor aside and asked him what could I do with a history degree. He said I could teach or work for the government. History professors grooming future history professors. I asked my foreign language professor and he said the same thing. Seemed like a waste of time to me and my underdeveloped frontal lobe back then.

The middle class is between a rock and a hard place. Tom, that is a given. But two things I have learned in life. Yes, a miracle I grant you that. Those things are it is never as bad as it seems and the second is when times are good, they will not always stay that way.

George Rebane

TomK 830am - thank you for this classic piece of progressive thought. There is no hint in your world of a market place where free people are free to buy and sell things at prices they, not government elites or their 'betters', mutually agree. In your world, people deserve to have the government gun at their side as they reach into pockets they did not and could not fill. And the justification in your worldview is that them's that got deserve to be robbed, because they themselves robbed it first from the now less fortunate.

Still looking for a smidgeon of common ground.

TomKenworth

Geez George, what part of my description of how small businesses work do you disagree with? I voted with my feet when I could see that the boss was lying through his teeth about how soon I'd get a raise. Isn't that my freedom of choice? Please tell me, how, mathematically, everyone can become a millionaire, given this very common structure. Mechanics get $35/hour, shop rate to customers is $95/hour. Very common. Very difficult for mechanic to become millionaire, unless he quits and opens his own shop. And then we are back to square one.

George Rebane

TomK 909pm - Honestly, I think my 320pm is a pretty comprehensive reply to your take on jobs and their contribution to an economy. Very little of your description jibes with my study and experience, but that is the delightful part of our multi-faceted belief systems. That is, until the dysfunctional one begins to dominate and destabilizes the nation.

A correspondent sent me a piece about Scotland that should warm your heart in how progressively government revenues are collected and redistributed there. Enjoy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html

billy T

Tom, Big Bird would not be the same without Oscar the Grouch: http://money.msn.com/politics/post.aspx?post=4235ea50-f856-4458-9e2e-b93f13c26281

Russ Steele

Paul, do not read this. Move along nothing of interest here.

An update to an election forecasting model announced by two University of Colorado professors in August continues to project that Mitt Romney will win the 2012 presidential election.

According to their updated analysis, Romney is projected to receive 330 of the total 538 Electoral College votes. President Barack Obama is expected to receive 208 votes -- down five votes from their initial prediction -- and short of the 270 needed to win.

The new forecast by political science professors Kenneth Bickers of CU-Boulder and Michael Berry of CU Denver is based on more recent economic data than their original Aug. 22 prediction. The model itself did not change.

Paul Emery

Russ
You can find polls to support anything Russ. This was a headline in The Blaze along with stuff like this. Hardly a credible source.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/baseball-star-turned-theologian-exposes-all-you-need-to-know-about-free-will-claims-it-proves-gods-existence/

Gregory

Pew has fine progressive streed cred, and, as they tied Rasmussen for being on target 4 years ago, they deserve cred from conservatives and libertarians for being serious pollsters.

http://www.people-press.org/2012/10/08/romneys-strong-debate-performance-erases-obamas-lead/

They show Romney winning the debate 66 to 20, and leading Obama 49 to 45 among likely voters.

Gallup has also released their debate poll... they have it 72 to 20.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/157907/romney-narrows-vote-gap-historic-debate-win.aspx

Russ Steele

Paul@05:58

Yes there are poll and then there is this poll:

The Pew poll is devastating, just devastating. Before the debate, Obama had a 51 - 43 lead; now, Romney has a 49 - 45 lead. That's a simply unprecedented reversal for a candidate in October. Before Obama had leads on every policy issue and personal characteristic; now Romney leads in almost all of them. Obama's performance gave Romney a 12 point swing! I repeat: a 12 point swing.

And the women's vote? Obama had it by 18 points and now it is even. Things are not looking good for Obama. The O had better be on his game in the next two debates or it is all over. Some on left thinks that he threw the election, as he is ready to move on. The Hawaii home was to be ready by mid Jan 2013. Looking good for Romney and Conservatives every where. Some now think the Senate is back in play. Stay tuned.

TomKenworth

You'd think that thoe at the top would be satisfied making and amassing 10 to 20 times their wealthiest and most talented employee, but greed seems like a drug, where the addict needs more and more, and can never satisfy their cravings. Carlin says it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw offensive to some language.

George Rebane

TomK 1057pm - what even motivates you to consider such questions that are the private matters of a private business? You seem to have this deep class warfare instinct premised on those who earn more are necessarily taking it out of the pockets of those who have earned less. Historically, that has always been an attribute of a Marxist/Leninist. Why don't you just declare, and make a case for why that is the best way to organize society?

Ryan Mount

Everyone, and I mean every human being, is greedy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

As Friedman sarcastically points outs, it's always someone else who's greedy to the self-righteous.

TomKenworth

Rebane 6:58 AM, Jesus seemed immune to such cravings, along with Albert Schwitzer and many other greatly admired leaders. That's enough reason for me. I guess you prefer the hard scrabble dogpile lifestyle as a model for the society you want to live in. Every person a type one Robert Ringer and up front about it, and who cares about those may have been born with, or inflicted with, handicaps of one sort or another. There should be no veterans hospitals, and the country could only send folks off to war who asked for compensation packages that would be adequate to make up the difference.

billy T

Tom, at least you are consistent. Remember when they spent 50k for the round-dee-bout art on E Main St? Oh, the outrage on the Union's former forum. One person said they should take that 50k and feed poor families. I pointed out that if you gave 50 families a grand each, they would be fed or helped for awhile, maybe pay the rent for each for a month. A year later the money would be gone and no round-dee-bout art.

The trouble with greed is it not desiring a house, salary, bank account, vehicle or pretty wife just like the guy on the hill has. No, the problem with greed is one lusts after that person's house, salary, bank account, vehicle and his pretty wife.

George Rebane

TomK 904am - Wow, did I say all that again??!! You liberals sure have some kind of hyperthyroid problem with logic when you turn on your thinkers.

billyT's 927am pretty much nails greed in the operational sense.

TomKenworth

So your concern is not with your own greed which got you 5 to 7 houses (mccain) but rather with the other guy being envious of what you have, and him wanting to take it away from you so that he has it and you don't.

Interesting concept.

TomKenworth

BTW, I do not consider my beautiful wife a possession.

TomKenworth

I consider the RoundDeBout art a necessary safety feature, pretty-fied. It focuses the mind on looking left, and not looking across. It will make a fitting memorial for a high speed chase someday, and perhaps the perp's vehicle can be incorporated into it. Or maybe just a textster.

billy T

Mr. Tom, your broken thinker is really spinning this fine day. OK, I will try a different tack. Who are you to have a say in what goes on in a private contract between people? You have no say. I have no say. The US Constitution keeps prying eyes and meddling minds and even gubbermint itself out of private contracts. The separation of contracts and state.

Who am I to say 30 or 50 houses or 200 yachts is enough or not enough. It is none of my business. It was never any of my business nor shall it ever be.

I have no say in how much someone in the private sector (Tom Cruze, Peton Manning, Barbara Streisand) makes and it is none of my business.

Month after month, year after year, you appear so consumed by what someone else makes or how they spent their money. It is a most distasteful envy character flaw that always comes forth in your writing. Yes, you sprinkle humor in sometimes. But, Geez Tom, what is this big obsession with what others make and how we should run around telling people how to live their lives and what to do with their lives.

Sometimes I think you believe the captain of the cruise ship makes too much money compared to the housekeepers. And you believe you know exactly where that too much money line is and you even think you have a say in the matter. If you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine....as the country song goes. I have no tolerance for control freaks.

Russ Steele

Another comment that Paul should ingnore - Move on Paul, nothing here

NYT'S NATE SILVER EXPOSED AS OBAMA PROPAGANDIST

There's no question that nationally and in the ever-important states that swing, Governor Mitt Romney is not only tied or ahead but also enjoying a real surge after his stunning Wednesday night debate victory over President Obama. The Obama campaign is panicking, the Romney campaign is emboldened, and even the media has been forced to declare the race a toss-up.

Moreover, every historical measurement, from unemployment to income to gas prices, spell trouble for the incumbent. Therefore, there's absolutely no question in the minds of any objective person, left or right, that the right race is up for grabs and the momentum is with the GOP nominee.

And yet, in the middle of it all, we have one desperate, bleary-eyed ObamaTruther: Five Thirty Eight's Nate Silver.

From his lofty perch at the New York Times, it is apparently Silver's job to -- not eflect reality -- but to use some super-duper secret sauce that runs Objective Reality through a left-wing number cruncher, and sprinkles it with happy dust in order to reassure bubbled liberals everywhere that Obama's going to be okay.

At least I'm assuming that's Nate Silver's raison d'etre, because there's absolutely no other way to explain how any intellectually honest analyst who's crunching the latest poll numbers (which Silver is)  could possibly have Romney's chances of victory sitting at … 25.2%.

Read the rest from Breitbart.com HERE. The article concludes:

And yet, people take Nate Silver seriously and still will even after today. Part of it is willful ignorance; part of it is out of necessity to boost Obama; and part of it are those dumb enough to still be impressed by the mantle of the New York Times.

But make no mistake, Nate Silver is pure snake oil salesman, no better than a Politico or BuzzFeed Politics. Actually, he's closer to these lying media fact-checkers that hide behind manufactured facts.

The only difference is that Silver's spin and bias and lies of omission are hidden behind math.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE will owe me 5 buckos. Romney is pulling even and even ahead. The Tsunami is beginning.

billy T

Gentlemen, please don't count your chickens before they hatch. Obama spent all Spring trying to convince everybody that Romney was Attila the Hun. The debate perhaps surprised a bunch of the 67 million viewers that Romney had 5 boys and can sniff out bull pucky..

Remember this is the same dirty tricks Chicago machine and they are going nowhere. To lessen the impact of the debate, they spent all week saying "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" about Romney. Today our President mentioned Big Bird 8 times in a speech and The Libyan terrorist attack zero times. They are still pounding their heads against the wall going bonkers about Bain Capital and tax returns and Mrs. Romney riding horses. They know of no depths that are too low to gather mud to sling.

We are just coming off turn two and sprinting down the home stretch. No time to rest on our laurels. As I once replied to Paul E, it is not wise to take the amour off before the battle is over. Nay, the battle is just beginning.

I have seen the Big Mo before. Momentum. It is not a bounce or a bump. It is being propelled with increasing velocity and not much can stop it. Bump of the Big Mo? You decide.

Following up on Russ's comments, it is kinda cute to see the libbies' heads spin like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. All that green pea soup spewing forth is adorable. The demon is still alive. But, here is to the present moment: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/09/liberals-make-stink-about-pew-poll/

TomKenworth

If Romney kills Big Bird, the terrorists have won. Are you really concerned about the terrorists?

Gregory

Big Bird's boss makes something like $700k a year and the company makes a bunch of money. It's a private business, completely separate from PBS, which doesn't make a cent from all of the merchandising and movies that exposure on PBS enables.

PBS would survive just fine without Federal sponsorship, which represents a small amount of their total income.

Keach/Kenworth, just imagine, if the Feds stop funding them, the Feds can't control them. Next stop, pulling Federal money from CPB and, downstream, KVMR.

Douglas Keachie

But keep those tax breaks going to the oil companies --- sweet!

Gregory

Wow, the original Doug Keachie sock back in the open, changing the subject because the last snark snipe went nowhere.

First, paying less taxes on the wealth you create is different than an out-and-out grant; what PBS gets is patronage. Second, there's no good reason I can think of that should single oil companies out as virtually the only industry that shouldn't get depreciation allowances that are tailored to the realities of that businesses. Third, there's more profit in a gallon of gas for the government than there is for the oil companies, so in a real sense, oil companies are geese that continue to lay golden eggs, and, sad to say, the Keachies of the world are intent on carving them up.

Earl Crabb

PBS has some great programming, but it's time to get the politics out of it. Give people the choice of supporting it on their cable bill for a couple bucks a month so anyone who subscribes can afford it. Then it would truly be "public" television and we wouldn't have this argument every four years.

Tbetterman

Tom's real ID is now considered a sock? GregLogic is in fine form this morning. Typepad might be having trouble with Twitter Accounts logging in, you know. Only a total fool would miss the point of the educational aspects of PBS, for those in all homes, but especially those in homes with inadequate adults running the show. Or would you prefer to go back to the Dark Ages, when a substantial number of kids showed up with no concept of the alphabet at all? That would certainly improve our educational system, NOT!

Isn't it odd that clean coal comes to us in trains (look at those ads on tv), not trucks, yet those pushing that form of energy, also love to shoot down AMTRAK, which will result in more cars pounding the crap out of, and over crowding, our aging rubber tired infrastructure. Hope you enjoy your 1.4 billion worth of overcrowding the highways, may you be lucky enough not to be in an ambulance on said roads.

Tbetterman

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/pdf/highlights.pdf

Seems to indicate a current total useage USA wide of about 9,000,000 gallons of motor vehicle gas per day, or roughly .3 gallons per day for every citizen. Federal gas taxes are roughly 19 cents per gallon. That would be .19 x 9,000,000 for the government's daily take. Yearly that amounts to $624,150,000. $624 million and change. Gregory Goodknight has just gone on record as saying the combined income from the oil companies is less than 1 billion dollars. Prove me wrong, and even adding in the state taxes isn't going to save you.

Even if I am off by a factor of ten (and I may be) you are looking at a $140 BILLION dollar money tree: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2012/02/07/11145/big-oils-banner-year/

Gregory

George, you now have three Doug Keachie socks on the same thread. Not a record, but it's getting there.

Tb, you've stretched that illogical condom past its breaking point and made a mess.

Gregory

Earl, not only does PBS have good programming, there isn't the dearth of choices that existed when PBS created, and PBS manages to raise the vast majority of their operation costs from shaking down the companies that fund programs (though the credits have become more like commercials over the years) and money from stations who then participate and extend the PBS begfests that pass the hat to the viewers.

PBS can stand on its own. So can Big Bird.

George Rebane

Administrivia - Am on travel, bad connectivity, back tomorrow. Everyone is assigned to watch the Ryan/Biden mismatch tonight.

Tbetterman

Show me your math Greg. You are wrong somewhere.

Tbetterman

So can your airport, Greg. User fees should be cranked to match costs. You are being subsidized by our desire for fire protection, oh socialist you.

Earl Crabb

Tbetterman 8:49 - Having entered the TV market before PBS and Mr. Rogers, my education was supplied by Bugs Bunny and Popeye. Does it show?

George - I really want to watch the debates, but the A's game is on! I'll wait for the highlights after the game.

Gregory

Tb (cough, cough) your problem is assuming Federal excise taxes per gallon represent all of the tax burden on the companies large and small who are involved in getting petroleum out of the ground and into your tank. "What a maroon! What an ignoranimus!" especially since all the taxes they pay are actually paid by customers buying the end product. You're advocating cutting everyone's nose to spite your face.

Earl, it's a crying shame what's happened to Saturday morning TV. I too would wake up early on Saturdays in order to catch Mr. Wizard and it wouldn't be over until Porky Pig said "That's all, folks!". The Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner Hour was the pinnacle; the day Mel Blanc passed away, Warner Bros. was handing out a memorial toon with all the characters Blanc voiced standing sadly and silently behind an old fashioned studio microphone.

It was quite a crowd.

Michael Anderson

Exactly, Earl.

Bam-bam and Mr. Green Jeans won't be seeing any live screen time at our house tonight.

Walt

WOW "O" has brought all the nations closer together according to Joe.. He got that right,,, United against us.

Michael Anderson

Hey Walt,

Biden wins by default, since Bam-Bam is still in diapers, and Romney's 5 boys are so busy cruising the Conan O'Brien circuit that they don't have any extra time to serve their country in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or US Marine Corps.

Unlike Biden's son, who is an Army JAG officer. Money talks, bullshit walks folks. Romney's son's are bullshit walking, and it's pretty embarrassing. When I hear Romney and Ryan talk about foreign policy, it's like listening to another chicken hawk, Rush Limbaugh, discuss military issues. MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS.

Get some skin in the game and get back to me, Romney and Ryan. F'ing pussies.

"'With all due respect, that is a bunch of malarkey,' Biden said when Ryan accused the White House of projecting an image of American weakness to the world."

I have no truck for hypocritical cowards...

Michael A.

Tbetterman

Hey Greg, I gave you a head start by suggesting the state taxes. You made the claim, it's up to you to back it up.

"Third, there's more profit in a gallon of gas for the government than there is for the oil companies, so in a real sense, oil companies are geese that continue to lay golden eggs, and, sad to say, the Keachies of the world are intent on carving them up."

Prove it. Go ahead, figure out all the other taxes you want, and the leasing fees and the payroll taxes, etc. It a long ways from 1/2 billion to 140 Billion. Waht does that airport cost, and how much of it are you paying for it? I remember your LW tactic last time we had this go round, when you tried to intimate that al of the cost of a gallon of AV gas taxes, instead of the 19 cents actually charged. You and Paul Ryan, two peas in a LW zombie pod.

Tbetterman

I think we should have sent a camera to the bottom of the Indian Ocean, attached to Osama's body. Then we could truly project to the rest of the world, Obama's supposed weakness. Biden did a great job tonight.

Ryan Mount

Michael-

I think you make a good point regarding belief vs substance. The Romney camp is taking the traditional Republic line that the current Democrat is making us weaker abroad.

I do not think that anyone(enemies/friends/Canadians) feels we're weaker, not with our 2150 active(not to mention the ~8000 stockpiles) nuclear warheads and our massive navy, for starters. We're more of a threat, if anything.

But Obama Administration is clearly disorganized and not doing it's parental duties in keeping the kids from running around the house with squirt bottles and sharp knives. I think that might be a deliberate policy.

But as with any fear-based pep talk, there always has to be a monster, even if they look exactly like us:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-humanity-desperately-wants-monsters-to-be-real/

"Crime rate in America has been falling for 20 years, somehow 70 percent of Americans think it's getting worse."

Gregory

Tb/Keachie, if you want to find information on oil company profits per gallon, I'd suggest googling the term, "oil company profit per gallon".

Total flowage taxes (Federal, state and local) paid by Californians are about 68 cents a gallon and that looks to double or triple with cap and trade carbon taxes next year.

Walt

LOL Mike A. Even CNN has Paul winning last night.
Joe laughed himself off the stage.
Joe is his own worst enemy. He even screwed up the terrorist attack questioning. Yup,, Joe "F"ed up good on that.
Can you tell us just which Hollywood type tried to give Joe some acting tips? Joe sure didn't pay any attention to those either.

We know when Paul nailed the questions, and stuck it to "O" and Co. because Joey started laughing. Just like when Gore did his "sighing". Same game, different tactic. Still backfired.

"O"'s poll numbers are even deeper in the crapper today. You can thank Joe for that.

You guys better find a crisis that's too good to waste if you want to stand a chance. You sure blew the Libya one. That one just came back and took a chunk out of your butt.

Tbetterman

No Greg, you made the statement, you defend it, and quit trying to pretend CA state taxes are the average for the entire USA. Even if they were, that only gets you up to 1.5 billion, far short of your goal, your ship of foolish numbers is way overloaded, you'll never get off the ground, you airport runway Freddie the Freeloader. You made your factoid up out of 19th century ether, using your Ouija board, and you've been caught, admit it, you're "completely wrong" just like Romnetta, you'll just have to cry over your spilt milk.

https://www.google.com/search?q=completely+wrong&hl=en&lr=&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SUV4UOabBIOnigLi9YHQCg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1772&bih=939

Ryan Mount

I think Biden damaged, maybe severely, the campaign with his snarkiness and rudeness. He certainly had the partisan faithful waving the victory flags, which is what you're seeing in the "we won" aftermath from dedicated Democrats.

But for the undecided voter, he came across as very arrogant. And the undecided voter is very sensitive to partisan wranglings. Which is why Romney was so successful last week, whether you agree with what he had to say or not: he sounded Presidential, calm, reasonable and frankly less partisan.

The ENTIRE, and this is not an overstatement, Democratic strategy since January has been to paint the Republican candidate as a Right Wing extremist who is out of touch with the electorate. Even Romney has aided in this campaign on several occasions.

But something radical happened last week. Romney decided that he actually wanted to win, and moved toward the center. And better for him, the GOP faithful approved! And the independents, sense a middle opening up, moved there.

Now the Democrats have a couple of options:

1) Call Romney a liar, which just makes them look like arrogant assholes (see Biden above)

2) Move to the center like Romney

3) Play dirty, and I mean very dirty perhaps exceeding the lie levels they believe Romney's engaging in. (hey, if you can't beat em', join em'. After all, we're talking Chicago politics here.)

Tbetterman

Ryan, upon being asked what he alone could bring to the office, inititially mumbled out, "honesty," and then verbally backtracked remarkably fast.

*********************************************************************

I found that remark to be covered up so fast, it does indicate a quickness of mind, a very, very, deceitful mind.. He said, in response to what he as a human would bring to the office, "Honesty" and then, realized his mistake, and covered by making it into "honestly".

What a word to do it with!

Gregory

It appears we've gone from partisanship to post-post partisanship without the administration's promised post-partisanship ever seeing the light of day. In the immortal words of Rahm E, "We have the votes. F*ck 'em."

Ryan, watching tivo'd Morning Joe on MSLSD, Tom Brokaw made a strong point that it's inappropriate to laugh during a discussion of thermonuclear war involving Iran.

There's already a Republican web commercial featuring Biden's antics; I expect them to make a lot of effective commercials aiming at the 'undecideds', who will see it as evidence that Obama/Biden does represent the mindless partisan bickering they thought they voted against four years ago.

Tbetterman

Romney has two things left to do to make it "right" with the American people:

Apologize to all the folks he offended and mis-categorized.

Decide EXACTLY who and how many make up that class of people who are as he described, and which states they live in. Otherwise he must declare that there are no Americans who fit into those categories.

Tbetterman

Greg, of course, being caught, will now ignore his mistake and any references to it altogether. It's a common pattern for him, and the Republican ticket.

Gregory

"Play dirty, and I mean very dirty perhaps exceeding the lie levels they believe Romney's engaging in."

Ryan, I don't for a second think they think Romney or Ryan is lying, just that they want people to judge them to be lying. That's what partisan hardball is all about, especially among the left who think any statement that is false from their point of view means that person across the aisle is making a statement that is also false from their point of view.

"Bush lied, people died". That was all about Bush's statement that British intelligence believed Saddam's Iraq was seeking uranium yellowcake in Niger, and guess what? British intelligence still thinks Iraq was in Niger for yellowcake.

In the old days, a lie was considered to be intentionally making a statement the speaker knew to not be true, but the BSNBC crowd think's it's any statement they don't want to believe.

Gregory

Keach, you can find multiple references yourself. And so can anyone else.

Please note the flowage taxes also don't include the federal, state and local corporate income, property and all the other taxes paid by all profitable companies, large and small, that make up the energy sector.

Tbetterman

True to form, Greg.

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