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« Cueing the Luddites - The October Jobs Report (updated 5nov12) | Main | Dems Supermajority – there’s no stopping them now (updated 9nov12) »

06 November 2012

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Comments

Michael Anderson

George,
I very much appreciated your commentary. I think it is poignant in 3 ways: 1) you have defined the split very accurately, though I would add that it's important to note that this split is no longer geographical in the larger sense, that the geographical separation is neighborhood by neighborhood (except in the purple areas where there is more of a frothy mix), 2) since this split is financial at $50K, both sides are going to need to compromise, that's what Simpson-Bowles is all about, 3) race, and immigration, has a lot to do with this split.

That all being said, I am looking forward to the coming sequestration battles that should begin in, oh, about 3 hours or so )-:

JeffPelline@mac.com

George,
LOL! You pompous fool.
Prop. 30 must be tough to swallow too.
[I leave this comment as yet one more revealing monument to the man's character. gjr]

JesusBetterman

Seems to me that $34,000 is the new median income, not $50,000, so it is a different split, and frankly, the voters actually corralled by the Repubbys and FOX news probably have a very large number below the median, as lawyers, for example, are largely Democratic and way the heck above even $50,000. As for the 10% plus Hispanic vote, who again invited the camel under the border tent? It sure wasn't the Unions, or even the average "American" worker. It's been a long process, but even switching the ethnicity of the American worker has not prevented those new workers from demanding a fair share of the pie, one way or the other. We do not need more obscene wealth displays, and at least some of those at the top understand this and have at least pledged to redistribute 50% of their gains during their lifetimes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erincarlyle/2012/09/18/forbes-400-billionaires-whove-signed-the-giving-pledge/

(there is an ad here, wade through it)

Romney's name is not on the list. I guess 50 million a piece is not enough for each of his kids.

Russ Steele

Americans have made their choice, they have chosen liberal piety over America’s future, free condoms over freedom, and they have chosen to hasten our decline so that we will be no more exceptional than failing Greece or Spain. We will soon be mired in the mandated multiculturalism that is destroy the social fabric in the UK.

California will lead the way with the passage of Prop 30. We will show the rest of the nation how to grow broker faster, how to create more stifling rules, more self-righteous organizations, and ever more leftwing in our politics. The worse it get’s, the more voters will vote for more of the same. We have reached a point where the decline can only accelerate, as there are now more takers voters than wealth producing voters, as yesterday’s election validated. The wealthy will do what they can to protect their wealth and the takers will work even harder to craft ways to take what they have not earned, but feel entitled. As the states economy declines the cultural wars will spill into the streets. Gun sales are up across the nation and are expected to accelerate again after the election.

With California leading the way America will soon take it’s place among the great civilizations whose success was their eventual undoing. Our descendants will wonder why they can’t come close to matching our past achievements. Then they’ll go vote for a faster decline.

What is left of the American spirit will vanish and we will take our place in history along side the other great nations who have left only a legacy for the archeologist to sift through and wonder, how could such a great nation decline when they had made such great progress. We are living the answer as documented on these pages.

Barry Pruett

Well put George.

JesusBetterman

I see the Gloomdah did arrive at Goombah's. People who are happy and have a sense of getting a fair shake are far more productive than gloom and doomers. Make way for the next generation of successful Americans. "I've got mine and screw you" is now, "OUT."

Russ Steele

OK, now lets hear from some our insightful lefty commentators, including his purpleness . What does Obama do now?

We are about to go over a fiscal cliff, and he denies it. Our economy is getting worse, and he denies it. Our poverty rate is getting worse, and he denies it. Our foreign policy has come apart at the seams, and he denies it. Al Qaeda is alive and well, and he denies it. Obamacare is about to ruin every small business in America, and he denies it. Our military is heading for an implosion, and he denies it. Iran is about to go nuclear, and he denies it. Our country has not been so divided in over one hundred years, and he denies it. He bears great responsibility for that division, and he denies it.

So, insightful lefty’s what is the plan?

Ben Emery

Yesterday's election was a complete rejection of the Republican vision for America. Americans overwhelming threw the assault on women back in the Republicans face by electing more women to the US Senate than any other time in our nations history. I guess woman can fight off an aggressive assault, its called running for office.

Don't get me wrong it definitely wasn't an approval of the Democratic Party vision since they don't have one. The real campaign starts today, the campaign to create a functional American where all people have equal rights, where workers can earn a living by working one job, we address global warming/ climate change as nation not as individuals only, and American military empire begins to reduce in size and scope.

Steve Frisch

I am not sure what both George and Russ think they are really saying here. If one looks at the electoral map the regions of the country with the highest wages and the highest average median incomes voted for Obama and the regions with the lowest voted for Romney. It's not like those making less than $50K elected Obama. I think that if the voters said anything it was that they are sick of obstructionism, dysfunctional governance, division based on race, gender, income and class, and they want something done.

I agree that it will be up to the Democrats to now put forward some rational policies to solve the fiscal cliff issue, create more bi-partisanship in our Congress, and keep the economy moving--but if the mind set of the Republicans is to mis-charaterize democratic policies as is being done here, it will only get worse for the R's in the long run. They are on the wrong side of demographics and history here....

It is time for some real soul searching inside the Republican Party, and they might wnat to take a few months to do that, because if they don;t they are facing a wave election in 2014. Mitch McConnell set the wrong tone last night with his comments......the election is over, it is time to work together to solve our problems, not continue the war in Congress.

Just a little advise from what you would call the left, but is really the center!

Scott Obermuller

Actually, Doug, the gloomy ones are on the left. The quick hit of euphoria that comes with this 'win' will settle back down to the same sense of 'where's all my free stuff?' We conservatives are productive and happy no matter who's in power because we don't depend on the govt for our rights or well being. It's the poor and working poor that will be slammed by the worsening economy. We are sad for them. People that feel entitled will never have enough 'stuff' to ever be happy, because they look for joy in the wrong things. A 'fair shake' as you put it will never occur because that fair shake is based on outcomes, not opportunity. Opportunity is still staring this country in the face, but we have rejected it for the glittering aura of 'free stuff'.
Russ put it concisely in a nut shell. Free condoms over freedom. Ah, brave new world.

TheMikeyMcD

I have never been so hopeless about our country (and CA), ever.

The progressives are focused on abortion and weather patterns while... www.debtclock.com

My only inkling of hope is that yesterday's vote will quicken our demise and allow us to rebuild on a moral foundation.

Gregory

One very Republican friend of mine was singing Romney's praises early in the primary season. A small business owner, nice guy. PoliSci major. He thought Romney was the adult in the room with business experience who could unite the country.

What I remember about Romney was his slash and burn tactics in which he clawed his way to the top of the Republican heap. Gingrich was waging a campaign of big ideas. Paul was waging a campaign of big ideas. Compared to Romney, even Bachmann was waging a campaign of big ideas, and Romney was turning the Reagan 11th commandment, Thou Shalt not Speak Ill of other Republicans, on its head while he was at it with deluges of negative ads. One by one, he knocked them off. Pretty much what Obama then did to Romney, with help from the weather.

No change. No mandate.

Prop 30 passed, so we have a BandAid for the Brown budget. It's a disturbing precedent; Sacramento has now learned it can get citizens to pass "temporary" tax increases by passing budgets that automatically trigger onerous cuts to popular programs if citizens dare to vote the taxes down. Like this old NatLampCo cover:
http://static.scripting.com/photos/archive/2008/12/17/ifYouDontBuyThisMagazineWellKil/original.jpg

The good news is that California's budget woes will be solved, Sacramento has learned it's lesson, and we'll all get nice baskets from the Easter Bunny in the Spring to balance the lump of coal from Santa that we won't be allowed to burn.

I didn't, but Nevada County as a whole voted for Romney, so paint the County red. In total 54% voted against Obama.


Gregory

"I think that if the voters said anything it was that they are sick of obstructionism, dysfunctional governance, division based on race, gender, income and class, and they want something done." -Frisch

The Republican House was reelected more handily than Obama was, so most of America voted for their Congresscritter to keep up the fight, and it was the Obama campaign that was based on race, gender, income and class. Ugly and divisive.

Russ Steele

Steven@07:50

I am sure that the Republican will get a round to doing a little navel staring, but in the mean time what is Democratic plan, the election is over and they cannot continue to demonize the Republicans for a failed economy. The House has put forth plans and jobs bills and they have been rejected by the democratically controlled Senate, which has not produced a budget in 3 years. They have no plan. That is the problem. Soon, world event will overcome their stasis and we will all be in deeper trouble than we are now. There is no way to tax and spend our way to prosperity. If there was we would all be millionaires.

So Steven what is your vision for Obama's plan to keep us from going off an economic cliff, for stopping Iran's bomb development, for blunting Al Qaeda charge across the globe, etc. You are quick to give Republican advice, what is your advice for Democrats and Obama?

Steve Frisch

Perhaps what people are actually saying Scott is that reproductive health care is ....health care, to be decided by the individual, and you should keep you hands off people's condoms and private parts That would be the 'conservative' position. Just because women have vaginas is no reason that your policy should control them; their first and primary property right is their right over their own selves.

Here are the issues Republicans need to address:

1) make a deal on the fiscal cliff that looks something like an adjustment to the Bush tax cuts to raise taxes on the top 2% and maintain the middle class tax cuts. (to get to a 'real deal' we may need to extend the debt ceiling and move the negotiation to the new Congress, but it should be front and center and O should do nothing else until this is fixed).

2) work with Democrats to get meaningful immigration reform, based ironically on the reforms proposed by former President Bush.

3) work with Dem's to make some adjustments to Medicaid and Social Security ala' some of the recommendations of the Simpson-Bowles commission (I can hear Ben now)

4) work with Dem's to restructure the American military so it can focus more on rapid deployment and less on fixed assets..and realize the savings that can come from modernizing and re-purposing our force

5) seek moderate health care reforms including across state insurance exchanges and medical liability reform....the ACA is not going to be overturned in the next 4 years and Rep's should now work to improve it. I don't think it is too late, especially if support for the ACA comes with other fiscal reforms.

6) admit Republicans are wrong on climate science and the need for real adaptation and mitigation policy....they are wasting your time...the people are increasingly convinced that climate change is real, it is substantively human caused, and we need to do something about it.


That would be a good start toward becoming the meaningful productive opposition party Republicans should be.

JesusBetterman

Scott, try reading the MikeyMcD right below you. How close to losing in the global market cliff do the Republicans want to race their engines? Greg was actually kinda funny this morning. Congratulations!

Gregory

No Steve, the Republicans are right on climate science, though in general they have as much understanding of it than you and Ben Emery do. Virtually none. That goes for Mayor Bloomberg, too.

Tabloid climatology and blaming the weather won last night, but it doesn't change the scientific tides. There has been no warming trend in the last 16 years, and hurricanes have been trending down, not up, but something like half the voters thought the Storm was either Important or Very Important in their election decision. They sky isn't falling. It also isn't heating up.

Sandy-like storms are very common in the north Atlantic (there were even two with 10' or greater storm surges in the 1630's), but a landfall onto NJ and NY just before the election, giving Obama one last chance to look Presidential, was just dumb luck.

There are 5 million fewer people in the US working today than 4 years ago; making energy more expensive won't reverse that.


Scott Obermuller

Steve - Obama care is all about inserting the fed govt in between the doctor and patient. Even more so now than ever. And I would be fascinated to understand why women have some special rights that men don't. Where do women get a right to "free" abortions and birth control?. The problem is that women in this country do have control over their bodies but, (as with men as well) don't seem to be very interested in exercising very much of that control.
This election has shown what folks want more than anything else. Free abortions and birth control, legalised dope and more freebees from Uncle Sugar. Working is, well, work. What a drag. Obama had 2 years to pass all of this great stuff you mention, but he didn't even TRY. Now you want the R's to help do what he couldn't be bothered to do. Sorry - you Dems had your shot and you screwed up big time. Now we get 4 more years of baby Obama crying and making excuses. Already you are sounding like a sour puss.

JesusBetterman

Will it be government regulation, or Big Franchise Corporate that limits this owner's free speech? Did you ever read the details on the Ronald McDonald's House funding in 6 point type at the bottom of a Happy Meals box?

"McDonald's© donates a penny per Happy Meal or Mighty Kids Meal© sold. Participation may vary."

They (corporate) ought to require each restaurant to post just what their participation is, to stimulate giving.

McDonaldsFlag copy

George Rebane

To me the big story from this election is corroboration that the tipping point about the direction of our Republic is long passed. The significant half of Americans have bought into the death spiral of all democracies. In 2009, after Obama was first sworn in and then quickly confirmed his promise to transform America, I gave a talk that was summarized in 'Republicans Need a New Strategy'.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/05/republicans-need-a-new-strategy.html

The arguments made then and during the intervening years are more true than ever. The question now is, can this democracy still return to its republican roots.

Paul Emery


George
The election went pretty much as I predicted with Romney losing because he was pushed too far to the right. He never looked comfortable as a candidate. He could have won if he was allowed to be the moderate he really is. The Democrats gobbled in the Senate even in solid Republican states because of more mainstream candidates. Lose lips sink campaigns. Just ask Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock. To will elections you need to keep your mouth shut and your pecker in your pants. Romney supporting Mourdock was unbelievably lame and showed what a poor campaign team he had.

The Dems were miles ahead in organization and communications. It's OK to be a Conservative but we do live in 2012 and you have to reasonably keep up with the times. A woman's right to chose has nothing to do with fiscal responsibility but because the Pubbers had to throw bones to the Thumpers it probably lost the election along with the unbelievably insensitive and impractical view on immigration. The Republicans now have no legacy. Reagan is dead, Bush is exiled and Romney has no place or interest in continuing in politics. The Tea Party Pit Bulls will be de-fanged by the return of the moderate republicans and that will cause a major civil war within the party.

Obama's victory was wide but not very deep. Nate Silver got it right again. Th Republican Party failed as an opposition party.

Steve Enos

Paul, toss in the total failure of the R's to understand... demographics... where they are and where they are headed in the future.

Steve Enos

This does a good job of covering what happened and why:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/07/us/politics/senate-races.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Dixon Cruickshank

In reading Frischs first post all his posts actually were exactly opposite of reality

most of all - population centers in the NE contain more poor people in the inner cities, otherwise why would Cuyuga County in cleveland be the biggest Obama County.

All your reasons are in reverse but would expect nothing less, and at virtually 50/50 not much mandate. It was only an inner city mandate from coast to coast - except CA which is not on the same planet anyway, which is why you don't understand.

Steve Enos

What happened in Florida?

Ryan Mount

Welp, it almost seemed like Romney might have pulled it off until the ghosts of Christmas past started catching up with him. Notably the really out-of-touch abortion candidates (social issues are the killer for the GOP), and of course candidate Romney himself who was never able to fully shed his Mr. Burns persona as well as his nuanced differences of opinion with Obama on things like the American auto bailout/bankruptcy. His odd immigration proposals that certainly didn't connect with Latino voters (not that he really had a chance with them to begin with).

The GOP may certainly have to moderate their positions to draw in more minorities, but why should they? Why do we put up with this two party pretense that it somehow captures the will of the electorate. Besides, 6 years ago ago the GOP ran everything? Have they suddenly switched their platform in 6 years? I think not. What has changed in the past 6 years is the rhetoric from the American Left that discovered the gift of distortion and demonization. Suddenly every 2012 Republican was pro-Rape and hated equal pay for women. It's so laughable and cynical that it's almost hard to type it. But it worked. Congrats on winning the race to the bottom. How does it look from down there?

What we need is a couple of opposition parties from differing political persuasions. I dunno? 2 more? And how we get there is by removing the so-called "spoiler" effect with instant run off elections. We should also get rid of the "winner takes all" electoral college system that possesses 48 of the 51 districts. Let each district vote for President based on their popular vote. How would District 1 have voted, for example?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE

Douglas Keachie

The solution for the Republicans is simple, Dixon. Decrease the sizes of the inner city areas by making those job they talk so much about, and hiring the inner city folks, pay them good enough wages so that they can move to single family homes in the suburbs, and become good Republicans. Simple, simple...

Gregory

Let's be honest; Romney/Ryan would have won had the media been covering the Obama/Rice lies (and I use the term precisely, knowingly repeating a falsehood for personal gain) about Benghazi, or if there hadn't been a storm with perfect timing hitting a soft spot really hard; Obama's NJ photo op cost him an hour and very possibly enabled a second term.

CBS alone sat on enough interview footage that would have sent Obama tumbling had it been shown in a timely manner, when the issue was fresh.

Not that Republicans shouldn't have done better with the hand they were dealt.

Douglas Keachie

Calling 47% of the country loafers, was a real turning point. The video that changed the election, followed by the abortion clowns, all washed out Romney's bridges to the Common Man, and then to the Common Woman.

Gregory

"I think not. What has changed in the past 6 years is the rhetoric from the American Left that discovered the gift of distortion and demonization. Suddenly every 2012 Republican was pro-Rape and hated equal pay for women. It's so laughable and cynical that it's almost hard to type it. But it worked. Congrats on winning the race to the bottom. How does it look from down there?" -Ryan Mount

Ryan, it's a shock to see you get it so right. It would also probably surprise most Obama supporters that there are more latino Republicans in the Congress than Democratic ones. And it would surprise just about everyone if Elizabeth Warren ever substantiates her claimed native American heritage.

This was the ugliest, most underhanded political campaign I've ever seen, and that includes Nixon '72.

Douglas Keachie

Kinda odd, Greg, I count roughly 19 Dems, 5 Repubs in the House, and there are only 8 positions in the Senate, not specified. Some kinda new fangled whole earth math?

http://www.newstaco.com/2012/11/07/record-number-of-new-latinos-in-congress/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=record-number-of-new-latinos-in-congress

Gregory

"Calling 47% of the country loafers"

Thank you, Doug Keachie, for an illustration of the lying of the past silly season. That was how it was spun, not what Romney was saying. And he was right; a more mainstream way to say it is that when robbing Peter to pay Paul, you will get Paul's vote.

Can I have my Obamaphone now?

Russ Steele

Guy seeking job tells Bloomberg to shove it. Steven should enjoy this:

The straw – albeit a particularly dense one – that truly broke the camel’s back for me however, was Bloomberg editor Josh Tyrangiel tweeting that same day, presumably to ramp up sales of this particular issue that, “Our cover story this week may generate controversy, but only among the stupid.” This is not language becoming of the editor of a major mainstream news publication and solidifies my opinion that BBW is an outlet for propaganda, rhetoric and schoolboy level insults, not a publication to be taken seriously – especially for anyone who works in the business world needing facts on the ground on which to make decisions. And the facts on the ground are that not only are the claims of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming highly uncertain and also often wildly exaggerated, but that even many of the experts who stand behind alarming claims made regarding the latter disputed any feasible links to Hurricane Sandy.

You can read the whole article here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/07/job-candidate-tells-bloomberg-to-take-this-job-and-over-global-warming-cover/

Douglas Keachie

Greg, the intent and background meaning was as plain as the expanding nose on Paul Ryan face. "Those 47% are not worth nothing to me, or to you {his Big Donors}." I'd say he blew his 47¢ and got it thrown back in his face, by the 47%. There was no spin there. Why the heck should anything he says to private donors be any different than what he says to the general 47% public? Anyone who was ever lied to by his "job creating" boss could read that one a mile away, and voted accordingly.

Ken Jones

Congrats on winning the race to the bottom. How does it look from down there?" -Ryan Mount

Well Ryan my contention is the Republicans basically live in the gutter. From the birth certificate issue, to the Muslim claims, to the Bill Struck moronic claims of President Obama passing well over 900 executive orders, much less the verbal diarrhea that is Fox News and conservative talk radio. And let us not forget Mr. Trump. Republicans have almost cornered the market at the bottom, and then went further south from that point. Not that the Democrats are anywhere close to saints. They have a good grasp of the gutter as well. However when the GOP became associated with stupid social issues and of course Romney’s class welfare remarks concerning the 47%, the GOP couldn’t pull out of the bottom. Mitt is morally flexible. That pisses off the far right and provides worthy ammo to the left. Just where can the GOP go but up since they have allowed the party to fall into such a mess. Regardless an Obama Presidency is better for the nation than a Romney Presidency. Just what level of “better” will soon be discovered.

Douglas Keachie

BTW, what sort of Gregorian math are you using for your statement?

"Ryan, it's a shock to see you get it so right. It would also probably surprise most Obama supporters that there are more latino Republicans in the Congress than Democratic ones."

I seem to recall the term, "Lying Weasel" being bandied about some time back, does it apply here? If not, please explain how so.

Todd Juvinall

Obama mania media and the constant support they gave him was a large factor. But the O victory is 2.3% or 3 million voters. The change of only 1.7 % and all is reversed. So I would say don't be counting the R;s out yet.

No Mandate but gridlock. That is fine with me.

Steve Frisch

Fortunately those who populate this blog will not be formulating policy...they are the fringe of the fringe...the policy makers in the Republican Party will be crunching the numbers and coming to the same conclusion the election strategists in the Obama campaign did....the America of the 1980's is over and it is the 21st Century.

Russ Steele

Steven@04:50

One of the advantages of supporting Congressional House candidate is an opportunity to meet with them and their staff and obtain some critical email addresses that bypass the usual gatekeepers. That allows one to send key papers, studies and informed opinions directly to the staffs of those Representatives. They have the options of giving the information to directly to the House member with a staff summary, and to pass it to other staff members of the House who have similar interests. As you know one of my issue is global warming and I keep my House of Representative Staffs fully informed. I fully intent to continue my contact with those staff members of Congressman that have changed districts.
They have the options of ignoring my input, but then again if it is important to the issue of the day, I may have some influence.

Steve Frisch

So I guess you really won;t be pulling a John Galt!

When your Congressman's policy is just as stuck in the 1980's (or the 1880's should I say) as yours is, I hope you keep reaching out with vigor to those who agree with you. It is the best possible use of your time I could imagine.

Seriously though, if you are going to pull a Galt, can I suggest Mongolia? ;)

Greg Goodknight

Virtually any of the mainstream Republicans Romney pushed into the mud in the primaries would have been immune to the trashing Romney got, and I doubt if Obama had lost by a percent Frisch would be agonizing over how to revamp the Democratic Party over That lost percent.

Paul Emery

Todd

And what happened in the Senate?

JesusBetterman

I'm sure, Russ, that Feinstein Boxer will pay close attention to which circular filing cabinet they use for all your input. And so that leaves Doug LaMalfa, and you seemed to have prepped him pretty well already:

"I believe climate change happens every three months," LaMalfa said. "We're experiencing one right now. It's called autumn."

He said temperatures have not changed in the past 15 years and records from 100 years ago are questionable.

The portion of man's output of carbon dioxide is "minuscule," compared to that produced by nature, LaMalfa said.

"To change our lifestyle to deal with," new climate change rules such as AB 32 (Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006) is crazy, LaMalfa said. "

http://www.orovillemr.com/ci_21859948/lamalfa-reed-spar-over-economy-climate-change-at?source=most_viewed

Russ Steele

JB@06:41PM

I get nice form letters from Feinstein and Boxer that have nothing to do with the my e-mails. They must be hiring F students to run the mail room. I stopped sending them, it was a big waste of time. On the other hand there are more open and receptive minds who are not yet part of the AGW Carbon Cult.

Michael Anderson

Greg:
"Let's be honest; Romney/Ryan would have won had the media been covering the Obama/Rice lies (and I use the term precisely, knowingly repeating a falsehood for personal gain) about Benghazi, or if there hadn't been a storm with perfect timing hitting a soft spot really hard; Obama's NJ photo op cost him an hour and very possibly enabled a second term."

Bull crap. Chicago-style hardball politics and an excellent ground game came up the winner. Obama and team took a bad situation and won The Big One. Kinda like the Giants. Winning is the only thing that matters in American politics and the World Series. Talking about Benghazi is kinda like talking about that damn bunt that never went foul. It's basically whining. Sad.


Todd:
"No Mandate but gridlock. That is fine with me."

I see you've finally come out of your hidey-hole. How's that hair shirt feelin'? I seem to remember some pretty constant diatribes about Romney/Ryan winning by 7 points over the past few months from you. Earl had Karl's picture eating crow, but I wondered why you were left out? Here's something to help with the helpings: http://www.crowbusters.com/recipes.htm

Gregory

MAnderson, the Sandy moment took the air out of the Romney tires for several days, and, "While 54 percent of voters said Mr. Obama's response to Superstorm Sandy had little to no impact on their vote, 42 percent say it was a factor in their vote" CBS News

Then we have Chris Matthews who said "I'm so glad we had that storm last week ... No, politically I should say. Not in terms of hurting people. The storm brought in possibilities for good politics."

It was a 1% win. No mandate, a bare majority. If anything, the Republicans in the House have more of a mandate.

Todd Juvinall

Gridlock works for me just fine PaulE. The status quo is maintained. You and MichaelA can take your hair shirts home and wrap them in tin foil. What a hoot!

Gregory

Regarding the Giants, going 4-0 in a World Series is a blowout. An incumbent President winning by a lower percentage than their first contest, barely squeaking by, is more like winning a series 4-3 with extra innings in all the games.

No mandate. It will be interesting.

JesusBetterman

A President winning despite a House of Teaper Creatures doing everything possible to make him look bad, is a President winning against the Stupids of the present day idiocracy. Hey Greg, where's your list of more Republican Latino's than Dems? Did you lie by accident? Trusted source gone sour? explain your situation, and don't think I'll forget and stop asking.

Paul Emery

And Gregory, what about the Senate?

Gregory

What about the Senate, Paul? Isn't it still less lopsided Dem than the one Obama had his first half-term?

The entire House runs for reelection every 2 years, and is where all tax and budget bills originate. In the authority to move such legislation, the Speaker is rarely given all the credit or blame they deserve, with the President treated almost as a King.

Gingrich balanced the Clinton budget, and it remains unclear whether or not Boehner will uncork anything similar here. Given how Obama has yet to show any real ability to work and compromise with the Republican congress, it may not happen; since Obama will be trying to burnish his place in history, stranger things have happened.

JesusBetterman

Given how Greg refuses to admit his mistake about there being more Latino Republicans than Latino Democrats in the House, we can discount anything else he posts.

JesusBetterman

Here's another place where Greg can practise his counting skills, amazing he got out of 2nd grade!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans_in_the_United_States_Congress

JesusBetterman

Whether it be the House alone, or the Senate, or both combined as Congress, Greg can't count!

"Ryan, it's a shock to see you get it so right. It would also probably surprise most Obama supporters that there are more latino Republicans in the Congress than Democratic ones. And it would surprise just about everyone if Elizabeth Warren ever substantiates her claimed native American heritage.

This was the ugliest, most underhanded political campaign I've ever seen, and that includes Nixon '72.

Posted by: Gregory | 07 November 2012 at 02:08 PM "

Gregory

Haven't had a chance to doublecheck, Keach, and I thought it would be fun to watch you simmer for awhile.

JesusBetterman

Well my goodness Greg, I've provided you with sites etc, a damn site more than you did with me and your silly divide 1/7/8th in half problem.

JesusBetterman

"your silly divide 1 and 7/8ths in half problem."

Michael Anderson

Greg,

I think the bullshit campaigns were much worse back in the day. This stuff today is just fluffing, everyone knows it's bullshit. Think Tivo, everyone is fast-forwarding.

Chris Matthews is a dick, and he was hard to watch last night. We can certainly agree upon that.

Baseball doesn't have "blowouts." Everything is still on the line, until the last out, until the last pitch. That's the beauty of the game. There's no time clock.

American politics used to have a time clock but no longer. You can play "small ball" for 24 months and the game is unrelenting. It all comes down to momentum at the end of the game, and this momentum is based upon a military strategy.

Obama won because he's read the classics. Romney tried to position himself as an educated reader, but it turned out that he was nothing more than a magical thinker. In fact, his Mormom background made it more so.

Michael A.

Gregory

Keach, you've still not admitted Romney was never"Calling 47% of the country loafers".

Keachie is repeating a sting he got from me a decade ago; he botched a simple division by fraction problem that I didn't even ask him to tackle, that I just referred to as an example of 4th grade arithmetic that many teachers an author (Liping Ma, 'Teaching and Understanding Elementary Mathematics') used while describe the shortcomings of many US teachers in elementary grades. Keach got it exactly wrong but I did give him a gold star for trying real hard.

It wasn't divide "in half", Keach, it was divide by one-half. You still can't get it right, can you?

Gregory

You Republicans might get some solace out of this one, from the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/us/politics/triumphant-obama-faces-new-foe-in-second-term-curse.html

Obama ran his whole campaign as personal attacks against Romney. No hope, no change. Now he's pretty dependent upon the House and Senate making nice and getting something done that, under Obama's leadership before, didn't get done.

Then there's Benghazi-gate, and if you don't think sacrificing an ambassador and an embassy and then lying about the reasons to Congress and the people is a high crime or a misdemeanor, guess again. Or use google.

JesusBetterman

You hinted at the fact that you were wrong here, over on the other blog, but obviously not here, and you compound the situation by getting bent about my memory of your loony toons situation, not unlike sawing a 2x4x8 in half, to get a 2x2x16, with a bit of glue.

JesusBetterman

Greg, the loafers comment was shorthand for the representation he provided his wealthy donors of the status of 47% of the country. It carries the intent of what he did present on the video quite nicely, no retraction needed.

JesusBetterman

"Then there's Benghazi-gate,"

Oh yeah, after the Republicans had reduced the funding for protection for overseas missions in recent years, it all Obama's fault, yeah, Riiight!

L

For discussion purposes here, exactly how do we define the Latinos and Latinas among us? Being in Tucson, I can assure you that last name and skin color have little or nothing to do with it...

L

Por essempio: My former sister-in-law was from Argentina, spoke Spanish as a native language; father from Spain (Gomez) and mother from Italy. Latina or not? Black hair, brown eyes, lily-white skin. What say you?

Gregory

Being conceived in Tucson, with family still there, and born and schooled in East LA, I agree, "L".

Benghazi-gate is about Obama lying for a month to cover up the fact that there were no rioters at the Benghazi embassy. Lying about his actions as commander-in-chief, not wanting to create his own October surprise.

The idea that the lack of support to the embassy was due to Republican budget cuts is another lie that tainted the issue. Thanks for remembering it, Keach.

"the loafers comment was shorthand for the representation he provided his wealthy donors" - Keachie

In other words, he didn't say it. Just come out and admit you got it wrong, Keach.

Gregory

Missed a juicy one... "Obama won because he's read the classics" - Michael A

A bigger load of BS I've not read in quite a long time, and that includes Dick Morris' column. With a BA in English with high honors from BYU, and the same sort of prep schooling as Obama, Romney is likely to be as well read, if not more, than Obama, whose BA is apparently PoliSci.

Todd Juvinall

One thing I gleaned from MA's BS I might agree with. I like the British election cycle regarding campaigns, not the Parliamentary system though. What is is if I have this right is they have a five week window for the whole campaign process. America has become one long continuous campaign and in my view it has diluted the importance of the political system.

PaulE, the democrats led by Reid have already said yesterday they will not compromise in the Senate. So, with the House in R hands and the 60 vote requirement in the Senate, America is safe. What can happen though is Obama may do EO's and cause a Constitutional crisis. We will see.

Gridlock is maintained, America has a chance.

Paul Emery

This was indeed a humbling experience for many including Todds polling guru Dean Chambers, the man who garnered praise from the right and notoriety on the left for his “Unskewed Polling” site.

“Nate Silver was right, and I was wrong,” Chambers said.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/11/08/unskewed-pollster-nate-silver-was-right-and-i-was-wrong/

Steve Frisch

I love how Russ implies I don't give advise to Democrats---I have done that consistently on these blogs as the record would show if people read back in the record.

But to honor his request I will do so again:

1) The single most important issue in the country is the economy and President Obama should focus on the economy before he takes on any additional high profile initiatives. If I were in this administration I would be on the Hill today asking Republicans what we can do to avoid the fiscal cliff, and I would be seeking to find 3-4 signature Republican initiatives that can be included in an overall solution that they can both take credit for and use as a rationale for some of the other initiatives that they will need to reluctantly accept. Clearly the solution is going to need to be a combination of spending cuts and revenue increases so I would be trading off allowing the Bush tax cuts on the top 2% to expire and some cuts to proposed military spending [along a force restructuring plan that many agree we need] with changes to Medicare and Social Security. I think the Simpson-Bowles commission report is the blueprint for what those compromises might be.

2) I would be talking to Republicans about a second 'stimulus' but not a spending based stimulus; this would be a regulatory based stimulus, and would be primarily, but not solely, targeted at small business. There are a number of areas where Democrats and Republicans could agree on meaningful regulatory reform to reduce barriers to investment and job creation--they should identify the key items, and push them through Congress in the lame duck session, while they are debating the cliff, as a demonstration of bi-partisanship, to give business the assurances they need to begin investing some of that $2.5 Trillion that is sitting on the sidelines right now. This sounds hard, but there are a number of reforms sitting on the shelf right now that could be done very quickly.

3) Very shortly [after dealing with the cliff] I would be moving an immigration reform bill, very similar to the one that GW Bush proposed, and allow Republicans to drive the bill through the House.

4) I would immediately begin negotiations with Republicans over creating a national energy policy that allows for expanded natural gas production, including on selected federal lands, along with appropriate regulatory protections, and the simultaneous expansion of renewable energy resources. [ironically renewable energy is a bipartisan objective even if a hot button with the far right, because the job creation and investment goes primarily to rural areas]. The target of this policy would be using natural gas as a bridge mechanism to move the country to 100% domestic resources with at least 50% from renewables in the next 25 years.

5) I would offer the Republicans [and blue dog Democrats] the opportunity to make some adjustments to the ACA in exchange for dropping outright repeal over the next 4 years, primarily targeted at opening up the health care exchanges to more private sector out of state competition and creating reasonable liability caps.

These are all domestic policy issues.....

Now I have a question for Russ, if he is not on strike yet; do you think that if President Obama reached out to try to do a few of these things the Republicans would welcome that?

George Rebane

JesusB 1056pm 1058pm - Keach, such remarks and arguments make serious responses to you an investment most of us are not willing to make. Take joy that you have a reliable correspondent in GregG (for reasons that still elude me).

SteveF 833am - On the obverse to Keach, thank you for the well thought out approach to rapprochement between Obama and the Repubs. I have more to say about the efforts of a lame duck Congress in my KVMR commentary tomorrow (transcript here).

The only thing that stuck out as something between implausible and impossible was your goal of achieving 100% energy sufficiently with 50% coming from renewables in 25 years. Perhaps you could expand on that.

Ryan Mount

Too many topics to catch up.

Greg, thanks, I think.

Attempting to have a discussion with you reminds me of arguing with my Egyptian friends, best illustrated by this:

Q: How many Egyptians does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: No, it is you who is wrong.

Mr. Ken Jones-

I never said the Republicans or the American Right was immune to negative politicking. (only so much room in a blog) I happen to agree with you regarding their obsessions, which they mostly dropped during this election cycle. I was implying that Democrats perfected this negative propaganda form. I prefer neither party, but it was clear the Democratic learned something important from their 2004 (I said 2004) lost: how to be a better assholes.

All this was obvious for your typical third party voter. Also, a quick leisurely trip to Tahoe(Nevada side) a month back revealed just how ugly and nuclear the Democrats were willing to go. I was stunned by the volume of negativity on the TV ads and how they contained no substance.

But that said, this was Romney's race to lose. And he did. Obama just "showed up" and got his job back.

Jesus Betterman

So again that brings up the question, why did the Republicans choose to lose in 2012? They want 4 more years to let the dems take the blame for an economy they've rigged in their favor, and they are not afraid of the government being able to do anything about it. Class warfare goes on, writ BIG and never talked about. They want the 98% to get used to the New Feudalism, and could give two whoops in hell about the 98%. To be continued.

Jesus Betterman

For Greg, poetic license on quotes seem to be lost on you, but outright lies about Latinos in Congress are just fine? Rather screwball outlook, I'd say.

BTW, just as a good starting point:

"Congress, at the insistence of the House of Representatives, slashed the president’s request for embassy security and construction and forced another cut in fiscal year 2012. Altogether Congress has eliminated $296 million from embassy security and construction in the last two years with additional cuts in other State Department security accounts.

Sequestration required under the Budget Control Act of 2011 will take more than $100 million more out of the program in 2013 if the current Congress does not overcome the impasse over budget cuts and tax revenues by yearend. Those cuts are largely the result of the draconian and unrealistically low budget caps placed by House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI) on all discretionary spending, falling particularly hard on the State and Foreign Operations Appropriations Subcommittee with responsibility for embassy security."

SEE? IT WAS CUT IN COMMITTEE. I amazes me that you don't understand that bills are amended"

Steve Frisch

Sure George: right now, California is almost 20 % renewable, proving that a gradual investment in this area can be successful. Almost 30 states have renewable portfolio standards (RPS) that require between 15%-33% renewables by 2025. Most are meeting or exceeding their objectives and timelines. If we can continue that trend the current level of investment would take us to about 35% by 2037. [By the way, I am including hydroelectric in the renewable portfolio nationally even though it is not included in the California mix] I think it is reasonable to think that advancements in technology and efficiency as these RPS standards are implemented will speed up the process. Also the cost per kwh of renewables compared to carbon based fuels is already coming down noticeably as renewables become a larger part of the mix. The real issue that needs to be dealt with is 'storage' and the actual mix of RPS qualifying electricity and carbon based fuels. A good deal of federal investment should be going to cracking the storage and transmission nut. But hell, if we can put a man on the moon and build particle accelerators we can figure out the storage problem.

Steve Frisch

Oh yeah, right now nationally more than 12% of our electricity mix is renewable [including hydro]. There is another at least 5% in the pipeline right now and under construction (just in solar we have 3% in contract or construction phase right now and that is before DOI started releasing federal lands for additional development). And that is without even beginning to count reduced demand due to distributed generation like rooftop solar. I suspect rooftop solar could be 5% of the mix in 20 years as the price of solar plummets.

Ryan Mount

> why did the Republicans choose to lose in 2012?

I don't think anyone chooses to lose. Obama didn't have the vetting that goes on during an primary cycle. He "just showed up." Romney out played his GO opponents by running quite to the Right. (hey, that rhymed!) It's like that old saying, you don't have to out run the bear, you just have to out run your friend.

Anyhow, Romney never recovered fully from his Mr. Burns primary persona, although I believe some of his position, FEMA for example, were grossly distorted by the Democrat operatives. He did make a run for the middle when his campaign detected vacuum (did he get sucked?), and it seemed for a while that the working class was warming up to him in the swing States.

But as George pointed out, there is something to the whole "[w]henever you promise to rob Peter to pay Paul, you can count on the full support of Paul" thing. The Ohio working class was ostensibly bought off by the Obama Auto Bailout; some might call that Democracy in action, I call it cynical bullshit. The Obama Administration specifically targeted Ohio for pumping because they knew Ohio would be key in 2012.

So when those Reagan Democrats when to the polls, they were carefully coached by a 3 to 1 ad spending spree by Obama reminding them that he saved their jobs. Romney added to Obama's lead by saying Jeep was moving to China.

Douglas Keachie

The Republicans had three years to figure this out, IF, they really wanted to win. Knowing that they had no real plans to do anything for the middle and working classes, they took a pass, I will admit, a very carefully calculated pass, I'm sure closer to winning than the thought they were risking.

Douglas Keachie

Looks to me like they'll run the stock market down, much as they ran the oil prices down from June 2008 to Jan 2009. Makes a nice talking point for the next go round.

Ken Jones

Ryan I think we agree on much more than we differ. I too am a third party member, never have been a D or an R. I have voted for both parties in local state and federal election. My intent was to vote for Jill Stein. I changed my mind at the last moment for two reasons. Primary reason was in response to the moronic comments on some of the hard right blogs, and the equally moronic letters to the editor in The Union. Such unadulterated BS. The second reason was I knew my vote wouldn’t change the outcome in CA. My intent is always to vote the best candidate regardless of party. I think the entire nation, except the fringes, are fed up with the negativity of the major political parties. But Mike Anderson made a viable point. While we agree these recent campaigns reek with BS and lies, they are perhaps mild compared to earlier campaigns in our nation’s history. Doesn’t make the listening any easier but gives some perspective. What I remember most of 2004 campaign were the Swift Boat lies. When the Rs made a decorated veteran an enemy; Kerry was awarded several combat medals that include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, and three Purple Hearts, the biggest assholes emerged from the GOP. Now in hindsight Edwards was/is a pretty large asshole too. In CA we may have been spared the mass negativity as we were not considered a swing state like NV. And for that I believe we were blessed.

Gregory

Keach, poetic license in quotes is covered by defamation laws. There is no poetic license there.

My statement regarding latinos in Congress wasn't a lie, and you should retract that (not that I can remember you ever doing the right thing when faced with corrections in the past). I repeated in good faith what I had heard during the election coverage and I've no way of telling whether I erred in the hearing or the teller erred in their facts, and you had now way to determine whether my error was intentional. I'd have cleared it up quickly but I thought I'd let you use as much rope as you wanted as long as it would be going around your neck.

I suppose they could have been referring to the fact that the all of the Latino or Hispanic elected to congressional office two years ago were Republican. Or that in January, there will be twice as many Latino or Hispanic Senators who are Republican than Democrats.

Now, regarding lies, which is the intentional assertion of a falsehood, there are House and Senate inquiries into the issues of the attacks on the Benghazi embassy and the four Americans who lost their lives. "What did they know and when did they stop knowing it" (as NatLampCo once put it) is an issue that will not go away.


Gregory

Make that "I suppose they could have been referring to the fact that the all of the Latino or Hispanic newly elected to congressional office two years ago were Republican.

Gregory

"Attempting to have a discussion with you reminds me of arguing with my Egyptian friends, best illustrated by this:

Q: How many Egyptians does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: No, it is you who is wrong." -Ryan

Ryan, that's what I'd say about your style. Perhaps if you find a statement of mine that fits that caricature (something must have caused that particular choice of words), I'll find a glaring non sequitur of yours to match.

Douglas Keachie

You are absolved of your lie, but you never would have been accused had you been more forthcoming with your shaky source in a timely manner. George has set a precedent here for having one's very own dictionary. I am merely following in his foosteps, with my poetic license quotes.

"Or that in January, there will be twice as many Latino or Hispanic Senators who are Republican than Democrats."

Please list them. And be clear, are these simply new Senators, or all of them?

Ryan Mount

Greg, for Pete's sake. Lighten up Francis...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

Unless you are indeed Egyptian, which in case I'm wrong.

Ken-

Cool. Yeah, I'm not that impressed with the Republicans either, but I really think the Democrats perfected nastiness this season. I judge this more by the reaction of their team (Facebook, casual conversions at Safeway, friends, etc), than the actual source of the controversy (the "God meant Rape to happen" becomes "if you elect Romney, we're all gonna git' raped"). Reminds me of that Blazing Saddles' criminal line up in front of Harvey Korman. "You said rape twice..."

Keachie> Republicans had three years to figure this out

You got that right. I think the fact of the matter is neither major party has a way out. I never bought the whole "Obama is a socialist thing." If he is, he is a *terrible* one. The Democrats and their fiscal dove enablers (the Fed, Krugman, dumb-ass but well-meaning college students, and people who watch Dr. Oz) in particular are just trying to keep the already brain-dead patient alive hoping something will work out, Terri Schavio-style.

George Rebane

DougK 1141am - Welcome back under your own banner Doug. Dressed as Jesus did not become you, except perhaps for the halo.

Re poetic license and understanding your use of words. I would welcome a link to your own glossary, one that you would include when exercising your license. However, using language without such a clarifying proviso is confusing, and does not follow my "precedent".

(To readers unaware, the RR Glossary & Semantics is available from the top right column.)

Ryan Mount

George-

Hi. I was hoping to see an entry for "disembrained." Although to be honest, I'm not sure how to define it. Too colloquial? Too hipster?

Ken Jones

Ryan anyone that quotes Blazing Saddles has my upmost respect. Still can't understand how Blazing Saddles didn't get nominated for Best Picture in 74, but I guess the Godfather II might be one reason.

Reporter: Sir, those are dummies.
Governor William J. Le Petomane: How do you think I got elected?

George Rebane

RyanM 1244pm - perhaps 'disembrained' deserves an entry. I have some ideas, but since it's your suggestion, please use it in a sentence or two.

Douglas Keachie

For a more in=depth look at Hispanics and the election, especially from the Chicana point of view, consider joining the National Tequila Party Movement:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/hispanic-politico/2012/11/07/mexican-american-post-election-analysis-tea-party-republican-us-candidates-died-everywhere-except-in-arizonas-archaic-arpaio-land/

Douglas Keachie

This wraps it up for Russ Steele:

GOP_on_Ice copy

It also shows how social media works, note all the different ways to share.

Gregory

Keachie, there was no lie and, of all people, you are not the one to be giving absolution.

Ryan, I could not ask for a more expected response from you. Rather than answer the question, you say I should lighten up, linking an clip that was funny 20 years ago, and I shouldn't be ticked off unless I was actually Egyptian like the friends of yours that you presented a caricature of. Do they know what you think of them?

I've worked closely with Egyptians in the past, one in particular who counseled me in my in-house marketing of a packet voice protocol a few years ago. He has a few RFC's under his belt, and having a discussion with him was not at all like your acquaintances. Same thing with Egyptian neighbors, and Iranian housemates, too, as far as that goes.

Your difficulty might have more to do with your choice of associates, or, more likely, the random and often immature nature of your communications.

Ryan Mount

Hi Greg. I hope you're having a great day. I sure am. No onto these pointless and frankly weird questions.

> Do they know what you think of them?

Yes. Where do you think I got the light bulb joke from? They, unlike some folks in this thread, have a sense of humor. Now, I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge the role of taste in such things, but if one can't laugh at a simple light bulb joke, or worse take offense at it, which is very odd, the only thing I can suggest is what my good old Mom used to say (and still does, as she's trotting about the globe on Cruise Ships): "If you can't take a joke, F*%$ you." [edited for the kiddies, with my pardons, but that's what that's what it's like being raised with Blazing Saddles on the shelf]

> the random and often immature nature of your communications.

I take the 5th! But I also fart in your general direction. (said with a Monty Python French accent).

Gregory

Ryan, make that nearly always immature nature of your communication. I'm not here to trade joke with the kiddies, and since I've been a Python(Monty) fan long enough to actually own their three sided vinyl album, "Matching tie and handkerchief", let me assure you I both know all the jokes and am unimpressed with those who think they are somehow special because they can uncork one of the more obvious ones and be funny as a result.

Gregory

New news about things being kept secret until after the election... Iran shot at one of our drones operating over international waters last week, 16 miles away from their coast. It was on a surveillance mission.

The reason given for the delay of a week was that the mission was classified, but it does seem the nature of the mission was pretty obvious to the Iranians, as well as the news that they shot at it.

Yet another bit of info withheld from Americans, with the fairly obvious motivation of not allowing such things to tarnish the campaign narrative of the middle east winding down due to the capable leadership in Washington.

Michael Anderson

"Yet another bit of info withheld from Americans, with the fairly obvious motivation of not allowing such things to tarnish the campaign narrative of the middle east winding down due to the capable leadership in Washington."

And GW Bush would have released such information on the eve of the 2004 election? Rubbish. You just don't like Obama and are picking nits even after he's been re-elected for some unknown reason.

I guarantee you that nothing will come of the Benghazi tragedy. Time to move on, it's small potatoes.

I can't wait for the real meat of PPACA to start coming into play. I do hope, however, that the Republicans work hard and help with useful revisions and improvements, instead of pouting and taking their ball home and hiding it in the closet.

Jesus Betterman

Hey¡Zeus! has always been known for granting absolutions, as well as abstract solutions to problem like what is how many ergs are there in Greg when he is divided by ½, and then squared?

Paul Emery

To make it simple, the Pubbers lost because they had an insincere candidate faking it as a Conservative and a really crappy campaign. The big money boys are really pissed because they were led down a primrose path by Rove and the other bill collectors but were unable to deliver because their campaign was so 2004. Benghazi was pumped up by Fox with a ho hum from the electorate. Romney will join Bush in exile and Obama will run them (Repubs) ragged now that he has the taste of blood. Big fun.

Paul Emery

One more thing. The Repubs have won the popular vote for Pres only ONE time in the last 20 years (Bush in 04) All Obama had to do was turn the key and step om the gas. It's astounding they couldn't take their huge majority in State houses and governorships to victory in the Senate and Presidential races. They forgot the first rule of national politics-take and possess the middle. Romney was the guy who could have done that but was pulled away by the TP's into no win land during the primary and never recovered.

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