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« Progressive Radio – the Dangerfield of the airwaves | Main | Conservatives – How We Fool Ourselves »

12 February 2013

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Gerry Fedor

I wonder how Marco Rubio's rating came in at too?

Bill Tozer

I was painting the hallway and listened to the President's speech on the radio. He said something that made my ears perk up. He said the deficit has been reduced by spending cuts and tax increases, more so on the cut side. This is good, he finally gets it I thought. But, noooo, he launched right into making sure "they" pay their fair share. If spending cuts are the primary reason it is working, why not stay with what works and keep the emphasis on that. But, nooooo.

Later when he said some programs won't cost the taxpayers a dime I thought "What? People in DC behind a desk work for free?" Guess those programs will have no oversight.

I was puzzled when he said first time home buyers can't get financing. Well, if they are truly qualified what is the hang up? FHA only requires 3.5% down and that can be gifted from parents. I guess he should have said people who want to buy their first home cannot get financing cause they ain't qualified.

I tuned out somewhere when he was talking about Sandy and finished cutting in the trim before Rubio finished. I did not need to hang around and have some spin doctor tell me what I heard or what he meant, or how long the speech was. I am just pleased as punch the hallway finally is done.

TheMikeyMcD

Our family paid 52% of our taxable earned income in various taxes last year (income, sales, DMV, Property, etc). How much do the progressives consider enough? More, more, more.

Obama has successfuly divided our nation by class as any good demagogue would. It is a morally bankrupt system that must first divide citizens into classes.

I was cheering during Rand Paul's speech.

Russ Steele

Bing Pulse Tracker was measuring the audience response to the SOTU and there was a very interesting trend among all parties and both genders when President Obama started talking about gun control. He started with an upward spike from negative to positive. But as he spoke that spike turn into highest dislike rate during the entire address. It is very telling of how Americans really feel about the gun control issue.

More details and a graph of the decline is HERE. Note that even the Democrats response declined, but not as much a the Independents and Republicans. Male and Female responses tracked very close to the lowest response to the SOTU.

Ben Emery

I can see why you guys on the right don't like Obama's rhetoric but for the life of me I don't understand why you object to many of his policies.

Taxes are at a 60 year low
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-7326720.html

Fossil Fuel extraction and exploration in US is at a 20 year high
http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/23/u-s-on-record-to-achieve-highest-level-of-energy-independence-since-1990/

Defense/ Offense Spending has increased
http://m.freedomworks.org/blog/jborowski/president-obama-is-not-actually-cutting-military-s

The USDA has been taken over by the Agriculture industry
http://www.appetiteforprofit.com/2011/01/28/monsantos-hostile-takeover-of-the-usda/

Outright assault on whistle blowers
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/21/in_unprecedented_obama_admin_crackdown_nsa

Guantanamo remains open and indefinite detention continues
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/07/AR2011030704871.html

Gregory

Ben, current income taxes paid are at a low is mostly a function of incomes being at a low despite four years of a Keynesian bacchanal, and the high fossil fuel production is almost entirely due to extraction from private land. The Feds continue to obstruct development of resources from areas under their control.

TheMikeyMcD

Ben, if you believe taxes are at 60 year lows you are not paying attention and you could use a math lesson. I as a 'middle class' family man pay 52% of my taxable income in taxes (property, income, sales, gas, dmv, etc).

I think the USDA should be shut down and food choice reign supreme.

I think defense spending could/should be cut.

We NEED to be spendng approx $1 TRILLION less each year... Obama is a liar and has zero integrity.

We NEED to be joined as team mates not divided by class warfare.

We NEED savers to be rewarded with more than a ZERO % yield on savings.

Ben Emery

Guys I am not inventing the claims just pointing them out to you and giving links

Paul Emery

Mikey 10:25 AM

"I think the USDA should be shut down and food choice reign supreme."

So no inspections of meat or food processing plants for example.

"The Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) is the public health agency in the U.S. Department of Agriculture responsible for ensuring that the nation's commercial supply of meat, poultry, and egg products is safe, wholesome, and correctly labeled and packaged. "

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/about_fsis/index.asp

TheMikeyMcD

I stand by my comment. I would rather have 'consumer reports' in charge of my food safety than the US Government. I would say the same for MANY (most?) government agencies.... Education, Energy, Commerce, FED....

Mikey 10:25 AM

"I think the USDA should be shut down and food choice reign supreme."

Paul Emery

So Mikey you would put the health and saftey of our citizens in the hands of consumer reporters rather than a government maintained inspection system. Let's go back to 1900 for example. Is this what you have in mind. Wait till people die or become sick or die then publish a warning that a butcher has unhealthy standards. How would that be communicated?

Here's what it was like for example

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4840a1.htm

"During the early 20th century, contaminated food, milk, and water caused many foodborne infections, including typhoid fever, tuberculosis, botulism, and scarlet fever. In 1906, Upton Sinclair described in his novel The Jungle the unwholesome working environment in the Chicago meat-packing industry and the unsanitary conditions under which food was produced. Public awareness dramatically increased and led to the passage of the Pure Food and Drug Act (1)."

Gregory

Paul, it doesn't take a federal agency to inspect food for purity; a requirement to insure against liability would have done the same thing, and you can be sure if private dollars were on the line it would be done both better and cheaper. With rabid trial lawyers on the prowl, even without an insurer in the middle, producers, sellers and transporters all have reason to not kill their customers, beyond the obvious ones, of course.

Here's a recent article in the libertarian Reason mag from someone at a non-profit with a dog in the fight
http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/19/the-fdas-pathetic-food-safety-proposal

Gregory

Since global warming was a big part of the SOTU, good news! There has been satellite monitoring of sea ice since '78, and a new record amount of antarctic sea ice has been set for this date since that time. It will be the southern hemisphere's mid summer in another couple of weeks.

http://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/antarctic-sea-ice-sets-record-for-most-ice-on-this-day/

But of course, that's just indicative of weather. Short term events are only climate when it's record heat.

George Rebane

PaulE 305pm - adding on to Gregory's 337pm, I'd much rather have my food safety in the hands of a private enterprise that could lose its ass(et) if it screwed up, than in the hands of some numbnuts government inspector not responsible for anything but getting home on time, and maximizing his pension take with SEIU sponsored courses.

Love your citing Upton Sinclair, that celebrated warrior of socialism, who saw every absence of government in human affairs as a catastrophic shortcoming. One could even argue that Moonbeam is Sinclair's current incarnation.

Paul Emery

So guys, whats to keep a butcher setting up shop in a tent on the edge of town, hacking up a few critters for quick profit and selling them on a street corner before hightailing it out of town? Do you think the threat of a lawsuit would temper him?

Do you guys actually think the public would be better served and there would be less food related sickness and death with no government enforced standards?

George Rebane

PaulE 406pm - ah, now the real worry is coming out. Given today's markets, I don't think that there would be too many conservatives dumb enough to buy anything - let alone items like foodstuff and medicines - from a fly-by-night dealer. Sadly, I understand that neither of us could make that claim for the broader customer base that might produce diminished ranks when elections roll around. But government intervention does sound good for those with a faulty caveat in their emptor.

And in a contributive vein, have you considered the function and operation of Underwriters Laboratories, and similar private organizations that are subscribed to by CYA concerned capitalists?

Joe Koyote

I have lived here 38 years and have only seen it virtually not rain in January twice, this year and last year. I have seen 30" of rainfall and 120" of rainfall, but never hardly any rainfall in January. Global warming is a great term because it can be easily disproved by pointing out regional cooling and warming. Climate change is a trickier term to handle. Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on which side of the issue you are on, the branding of the severe weather anomalies were are currently experiencing as "global warming" was a public relations stroke of genius for the deniers, regardless of which side thought it up in the first place.

Walt

Paul... Just what did people do before the FDA rolled into town?
It was either put out a good product, or go under. Pops knew this.
He knew what " freshness" meant. He built a catering empire.( so to speak)
And food quality was first and foremost. All before the FDA was even a gov. wet dream. HELL! He pretty much wrote the book for food safety in Ca.
And he did it without someone telling him he had too.

If your food sucks, you won't be in business vary long. we don't need that government interference WE the people are smart enough to figure out what is good to eat, and what isn't. ( or that outside your skill set?)
What else do you need the gov. to tell you what is good or bad? Most of us can figure that out for ourselves. If you can't,, that's your own problem.

There is no way I can follow in Dad's footsteps, and build the same company today they way he did, all because of gov. interference and "oversight".
He started with a few loaves of bread, and some empty shoe boxes on the kitchen table. Box lunches @ a nickle a piece. Within a year and a half he was selling 20,000 a day. And not one damned inspector. Quality control was HIS responsibility.
Now we have government nannyism. Oh,,, joy.....

Russ Steele

Joe@04:14

Not sure where you live but in Nevada City rain recored from 1894 to 2012 in Jan, here are some years to consider.

Year Inches Precipitation

1947 1.01

1976 0.81

1984 0.40

2007 1.32

2008 12.32

2009 3.74

2010 12.99

2011 3.23

2012 9.20

Where were you in 1984? Wow, 1976 was be for the warming started in 1977.

Use the Internet before making checkable claims. Tell me where you live and I will give your the details.

driveby

I can see why you guys on the right don't like Obama's rhetoric but for the life of me I don't understand why you object to many of his policies.

Taxes are at a 60 year low
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-7326720.html
------

Cherry picked duration.

http://nomoneynoworries.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/federal-tax-receipts-as-of-gdp.jpg

A better question might be why they never went down after WWII.

Walt

Gotta love Princess Pelosi's little explanation.
" We don't have a spending problem. We have a paying problem."..
And some wonder why we criticize LIB logic.

Trolley Junction pulling up the tracks, thanks to that wonderful
Obummercaretax. How many more businesses will bite the dust locally
before LIBS wise up? This is what "you" said would never happen.
"Adams cited a fledgling economy and anticipated increased costs of government regulation, taxes and health care as reasons behind the closing, she said."

LIBS ruin everything they touch.

Heck! Even The Union must be going South under it's new management. The pay wall came down. ( Funny how that happened right after I declined NOT to renew my subscription) Maybe people didn't like getting lied too. I still have the email that said commenting was coming back.
The "neutral" content sucks on ice. Remember the news about how the eco nuts were going to sue because of the fish? I gave them (Union) the info on how the taxpayer would be footing that bill, and do ya' think they would give that any space? Nope..... So much for giving both sides of the issue...

Paul Emery

This is really getting hilarious George, Russ, Greg, Mikey. You claim the same so called Conservatives that exhibit their intelligence by supporting Sarah Palin, Rush Linbaugh and Glen Beck will apply that superlative IQ to buying safe food while dumb Dems (progressives) will eat catered road kill because they don't know the difference. So once again, a simple yes or no will do wih this question. Do you (above) believe there is no government role for food safety and that the health and welfare of the public is better served without it.

Walt, your dad must be a pretty old guy since the FDA has been around for over 100 years. I think you made this up as is your tact rather that provide any research. I'm sure your dads catering business had to conform to regulations and standards and was inspected.

"the modern era of the FDA dates to 1906 with the passage of the Federal Food and Drugs Act; this added regulatory functions to the agency's scientific mission."

http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/WhatWeDo/History/Origin/ucm124403.htm

Walt

I will excuse your ignorance Paul where Dad is concerned.( but he put fear in the hearts of DEMS of his day on any given subject)) Only life long locals would remember him LIBS and Conservatives alike. Not to mention a few generations of school kids that attended Ready Springs School a few decades ago)
Well,, Dad was 62 when I came along. Too young for WWI, too old for WWII.
Worked for AP,and Postal Telegraph. He was out of a job when the phone took hold. There was no special programs for telegraphers when their jobs were obsolete. ( Sort of like unions in general these days. They think their owed something) No, Dad didn't sit in the corner and blame others for his career's demise. He found a need for a service and built it with the change in his pockets.( quite literally)
No,, I don't make crap up just to push your buttons. There are plenty of facts to use as ammo for that.

Want to know who he was? Go look at the plaque on the Ready Springs School gym.
Don't forget to look at the ones on the rocks in front as well.
At least this way I can get you to find your own info if you really care to know.
( Or make a call or two and have someone else do your dirty work.)

Your wiki search for info on the FDA leaves a lot to be desired.
So ya' got a date.. Big deal.

The bottom like is, If I wanted to start a business like he did, there is no way that can happen with the regs we have today. So much for "free enterprise"

Walt

How many more business failures will have to occur for our Leftys to
catch on that government mandatism is the root cause?
Then there was "O"'s statement about if Congress won't act, he will.
Here he goes again thinking he can impose laws with the stroke of a pen.
King George syndrome kicking in?
Did anyone else catch the comments by Pelosi? She forgets we are a Republic. Not a democracy.( and that includes the context she was using it in.)

George Rebane

PaulE 526pm - Right after you answer my 413pm question.

Paul Emery

Walt

I have no doubt your dad was an accomplished and amazing person.
I doubt very seriously that your dad had no health standards in his business that were mandated by the FDA. That's what you were saying isn't it? Do you think drugs should be marketed and sold with no governmental oversight? It is the Food and DRUG Administration.


George
"And in a contributive vein, have you considered the function and operation of Underwriters Laboratories, and similar private organizations that are subscribed to by CYA concerned capitalists?"

That is a utility that is part of the insurance industry to cover their butts. But you are for tort reform when it comes to drugs and medical to cut back lawsuits so why are they even necessary under your vision to Cover Your Ass?

Posted by: George Rebane | 13 February 2013 at 04:13 PM

Michael Anderson

Walt,

Actually, Lefty's is doing just fine. I was in there for lunch the other day for the first time at their new location, and they were selling lunch entrees between $10 and $20 dollars. I was shocked. I ordered the SOP burger, which came in at $11 bucks w/o tax and license, and at first I was kind of annoyed at the high price. But once I ate the thing I realized that the price was justified. It was not just some crummy cheeseburger.

Sky? Still not falling.


Michael A.

-------------
I'm comin' Lord, for my heavenly reward
I'm comin' home to you, can you see me comin' thru
Thru clouds of persecution, and stumblin' on my way
I 'spect I'm only makin', 'bout a half a mile a day.

Chorus:
The road to heaven doesn't have a rapid transit plan,
It's one way with no changes heading to the promised land.

But I believe that if I'll heed the things He had to say,
Even I might get to heaven at a half a mile a day.

Lord, when I let you lead, I never make much speed
"Cause I have to stop and touch, the ones who need so much
Then sometimes others pull me, off of Your narrow way
And by my mistakes, I barely make, a half a mile a day.

Chorus:
The road to heaven doesn't have a rapid transit plan,
It's one way with no changes heading to the promised land.

George Rebane

PaulE 1050pm - UL is a private laboratory that has designed a set of safety and performance standards for electrically powered equipment. And it tests such equipment from manufacturers, giving its seal of approval for models that pass its specifications. Governments at various levels mandate UL standards for such equipment sold/used in their jurisdictions instead having to put in place staffs to write and test products in their domains. This saves everyone money and provides for good products across the land. Other such non-government specification and test agencies exist for all kinds of equipments and services. I hope this clears up your misconception.

Paul Emery

George

Yes, I'm aware of that. You can include Universal Building Codes in that list that are automatically adopted because of insurance companies subscribing tho their mandates. We've been through this before. That's what forced the County to require sprinkler systems in all new houses. It is now referr3ed to as the International Building Code. Is this the direction we should be going in for food and drug safety?

George Rebane

PaulE 302pm - No I don't think so; not all specifications for products and services are created equal. Especially codes that are mandated from above. IMHO, local jurisdictions, examining the impact and collateral effects of such specifications and regulations, should make the decision which ones should be adopted for their community. And these should be reviewed from time to time, and modified as necessary. (The International Building Code has a dodgy provenance, and serves mostly to reduce the workload of newly elected supervisors, commissioners, and council members.)

Paul Emery

So who, if anyone should regulate food and drug safety?

George Rebane

PaulE 737pm - right now we have an inefficient and overlapping set of mechanisms - FDA, Dept of Agriculture, and the courts - that regulate food and drugs. The referenced paper from the National Bureau of Economic Research is an interesting read on how the current system increases costs to the consumer without creating any increase in marginal safety by the overlap. I would like to explore a more efficient system (under new tort laws) in which the FDA would license private food and drug standard setting organizations which would be subscribed to by local jurisdictions in which the food and drugs are sold. Here's NBER paper link.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w13561

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