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« ‘A Future of Failure?’ – A Timely Progressive Lament | Main | It Could Happen Again - Liberals Controlling Board of Supervisors »

13 December 2013

Comments

fish

I don't know George...at this point the finances look so daunting I imagine the consensus in DC is to just floor it and crash the system....looting and asset stripping all the way. There is no digging out from under this and still remaining the United States.

rlcrabb

Well, the alternative is another government shutdown. That hasn't exactly been a winning strategy, either for concessions or convincing voters to flock to the GOP banner. Boehner realizes, like most rational people, that you actually have to win some elections to move an agenda. At least this deal may give a weary electorate some breathing room.

Gregory

I expect Boehner & Company just want Obamacare to implode without a shutdown to distract from the fireworks in January... the GOP is beginning to think they can actually win a lot of supposed safe Dem seats next November if no one on their side screws it up.

Gregory

It's counterintuitive to many, but fattie's and smoker's lifetime healthcare costs are less than the slender and athletic. Nothing is a bigger drag on the system than a height-weight appropriate athletic vegetarian Asian female whose parents lived to be over 100... they'll be going to the doctor on Medicare for nearly a half century after retirement. I believe it's still true that the only demographic that still meets the original Social Security model of most dying before they get any benefits are black men, the only losers in the Social Security system. Tragic, and arguably racist.

Fat diabetic smokers will probably die a month before their retirement party... public employees should be encouraged to smoke, eat and drink heavily in order to minimize unfunded public pension liabilities.

Regarding IRS 501cX shenanigans, expect the worst between now and next November.

fish

Fat diabetic smokers will probably die a month before their retirement party... public employees should be encouraged to smoke, eat and drink heavily in order to minimize unfunded public pension liabilities.

Poor Lyle fell into this category.....was padding around his office in bedroom slippers towards the end....2 months after his retirement we were all at his funeral.

Ben Emery

George,
Don't you believe profiling is a good thing if cuts down the undesirable behavior? You have said in so many words to me many times. Just wait until they start Stop and Frisk policies at tea party gatherings.

fish

Just wait until they start Stop and Frisk policies at tea party gatherings.

...and we're off to the races with Rebanes Ruminations King of the Non Sequitor.

I certainly am not answering for George but this wouldn't action surprise me at all in a few years.....Democrat, Republican...two sides of the same bi-factional ruling party. The Tea Party is the enemy...they want to shut off the spigot of tax money flowing to D.C. and that's absolutely intolerable.

Scott Obermuller

Ha Ha - "At least this deal may give a weary electorate some breathing room."
Good one, Bob. There are folks starving to death in some countries and rotting in death camps for not smiling enough. Maybe if you are too weary of an actual attempt at saving this rotten ship of state, you might consider the way other countries go about resolving differences. Syria, anyone? The only thing that wearies me are the lies and nonsense that come out of Washington on a daily basis. I seem to recall that Boehner & Company RAN the whole show just a few years ago. And they were quite happy to do not a lot more than just feather their nests and run up the tab. It cracks me up when libs moan about the R's becoming a non-entity. Why do they care, since they bitch like hell when ever the R's actually do something.? Because the Dems need the R's as a punching bag to blame when their left wing nirvanas go south. (and they always do). Just take a look over at MSNBC and Daily Kos. They blame the Obama care fiasco totally on the Rs. OblameO will have to bail out California as the Dems have run their mouths a little too much about how they drove the Rs into the ground and are now getting everything they want. And as the old political saying goes - 'they are getting it good and hard.'

George Rebane

BenE 926am - Thanks for inviting a teaching moment by revealing your misunderstanding of NYC's laudable stop and frisk policy that greatly reduced crime rates. We will now see what happens as the policy is discontinued.

For other readers, stop and frisk was a reasonable (and definitely not racist) policy based on Bayesian decision making. Unfortunately almost all liberals fell into two groups concerning S&F - too dumb to understand it or too tempted not to demagogue and/or lie about it. More here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/06/the-liberal-mind-banish-bayes-to-restore-crime.html
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/07/the-liberal-mind-expendable-dead-for-more-votes.html

For snide questions like BenE's, a thinker would immediately ask 'what high probability criminal behavior does being a tea party member portend in order to yield the Bayesian calculation that justifies police applying S&F to a person based solely on their tea party membership?'

Ben Emery

George,
Stop and Frisk is racial profiling pure and simple. About 90% of those stopped and Frisked are people of color. My guess the repeat targets % are even higher. It is a quoto mandate put onto the police.

If the tea party groups are not actually following the law of 501 c4 then they should lose that status. If they are being profiled for political purposes that is outrageous and needs to stop.

Hunted and the Hated
An Inside Look at the NYPD's Stop-and-Frisk Policy

"In the course of the two-minute recording, the officers give no legally valid reason for the stop, use racially charged language and threaten Alvin with violence. Early in the stop, one of the officers asks, “You want me to smack you?” When Alvin asks why he is being threatened with arrest, the other officer responds, “For being a fucking mutt.” Later in the stop, while holding Alvin’s arm behind his back, the first officer says, “Dude, I’m gonna break your fuckin’ arm, then I’m gonna punch you in the fuckin’ face.”

Ben Emery

Baynsian theories look good on paper but in practice are oppressive if he would have believed stopping innocent people based on the color of their skin was a good policy. But for a blog founded in authoritarian ideology it makes sense an oppressive theory would be your go to rationale.

Todd Juvinall

George, it is actually stop, question and frisk. The officer must follow the protocol to determine if he can proceed. As far as racial profiling BenE. I am all for it. I was once in Montego Bay and a pal of mine and I went downtown and took a walk. The place was packed on the streets. My pal and I were the only white people among many black people. If the police there had been experiencing robberies, uggings etc., by a white man or duo, do you think they would stop blacks? Jamaica is a socialist country and I bet you like them BenE.

Todd Juvinall

We need more SQF and then the PC nuts can really see they are now safer. Too funny, the liberal brain is just too funny!

George Rebane

BenE 1144am & 1149am - Demonstrating again that you are beyond remediation on the concepts that support S&F; so next, let's try your ability to outline some tenets of "authoritarian ideology", and then give evidence that RR is founded on such tenets.

You make that charge often enough in these comment streams, but there is never any accompanying evidence presented that reveals how you have come to such a conclusion. It would interesting to see how you connect those dots. However, if this proves too difficult, I will understand, and at your pleasure you can just continue to throw out the same allegations.

George Rebane

ToddJ 1157am - Yes it is SQF as I have noted in my 1053am citations. I abbreviated it here to comply with the commenters description. You're right, I probably should have made a point of it here again. But beating a dead horse gets tiresome after a while.

Todd Juvinall

I agree, but you are a trooper truing to education the banana brained left. Even with the facts BenE and company refuse to be enlightened.

rlcrabb

Scott10:05- Are we a widdle cwanky today, Scottie Scrooge? You wanna shut down the big bad gov'mint and send your halfwit party farther down the chimney? You were one of those who saw Paul Ryan as the good guy, weren't you? At some point, every player has to take one for the team. A little pragmatism now might reap rewards in the coming elections. Maybe not. But you might recall that the definition of insanity is just doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

fish

Scott10:05- Are we a widdle cwanky today, Scottie Scrooge? You wanna shut down the big bad gov'mint and send your halfwit party farther down the chimney? You were one of those who saw Paul Ryan as the good guy, weren't you? At some point, every player has to take one for the team. A little pragmatism now might reap rewards in the coming elections. Maybe not. But you might recall that the definition of insanity is just doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I think the huffing instructions specifically state that you should take two or three breaths in between hits of nitrous oxide.

Scott Obermuller

Bob - you missed my point completely. It seems that you have completely fallen for the disinformation campaign about a 'govt shutdown' that involved only a few select burdens calculated to cause maximum howling and photo ops in the LSM. For most of us citizens, there was no shutdown and it was hardly anything that I would call wearying. Hence my sarcastic references to the true conditions for a great multitude of folk in the world that are truly facing something more along the lines of wearying. I wasn't even thinking of Ryan.
"A little pragmatism now might reap rewards in the coming elections."
Did you even read my post, Bob? Winning elections seems to be all anyone cares about in DC. As I stated, the Rs won a few years ago and it was business as usual. I don't care about Boehner and whether he wins or loses. How about we start right now with some real solutions? Of course the Dems will howl and 'punish' the American public if they see any actual cuts in the budget.
I'm a registered Libertarian, Bob. I wasn't aware that a govt shutdown could send MY party anywhere.

Scott Obermuller

Too funny, Ben - 'About 90% of those stopped and Frisked are people of color.'
No albinos? That is outrageous. We melanined folk gotta take a stand! BTW, it might interest you to know that I have been pulled over for 'driving while white' or something. First words out of the officer were 'where are you going?' Now, I could have gotten all Al Sharpton on the fool, but I decided to just play along. That, of course, is the major difference in why some blacks feel they are being harassed. If you want to turn every traffic stop into a Constitutional battle with a patrol officer, then it probably won't go well for you. Pick your battles, I say. My wife and I had to stop for the federal govt last week as we drove along the interstate. Did they have probable cause? No. Were we engaged in any activity that would arouse a normal person to be suspicious? No. It goes on 24/7 for white folk and I don't see any lib newspapers doing stories about it. Stop and Frisk does not 'target' blacks - it targets thugs and most turn out to be blacks. Most blacks know they have nothing to worry about and actually welcome the policy. But Ben is a typical white liberal who doesn't have to live in these neighborhoods and certainly is wiser than any black living there. Your example of Alvin was stupid. We don't get to see Alvin, or know what the cops know about Alvin, or what led up to his being detained or what nice things he had to say about the officers that detained him. I'm sure that you think that Alvin was dressed in a 3 piece suit and was on his way to his g'ma's house to deliver her groceries after his violin lesions. The point is that ending stop and frisk will result in a much larger number of blacks being harmed and killed. If you will not address that, I will have to assume that you don't give a damn.

Bonnie McGuire

I've been around here a long time and remember when the League of Women Voters were obviously politically biased and even suggested how we should vote. I guess they eventually stopped doing it to keep their non-profit status. Anyway, it was nice to have them as an example how not to vote.

Bill Tozer

Concerning the S&P 500 and record highs, we all just scratch our heads and ride the wave.

A bubble is nothing more than the price of an asset losing touch with the ground it is planted in. Or, the price of a thing not longer reflects its fundamental value. Just today another siren sound of another impeding housing bubble. Ride the wave until it hits the shore and the party is over.

The US stock market continues to be the best smelling turd in the out house. And the pile is getting higher and higher. Biggest ones float to the top. Hope the Fed does not do something stupid like flush the punch bowl. Boy, the rotten fruit will fall big time when harvest time cometh.

Scott Obermuller

Never fear, Bill. As long as they can create zeros behind the whole numbers in an electronic account some where in the Fed, we will have good times. Well, good times for those heavily into the stock market. Those holding dollars are being killed. If they stop spinning up the wheels of national finance, interest rates will find their natural level and the amount needed to service our debt will crush every item in the budget. The stock market will go down and the employee pensions will need massive propping up to remain anything close to solvent. State and fed budgets will be hit from both ends as revenues will fall from lowered tax receipts.
Remember they said it would end at 7% unemployment. OblameO needs good numbers for the elections and his approval ratings - so has now conjured up the needed 7%. Oh, what to do?
There was taper talk earlier this year and even just the whiff of tighter money sent a shudder through the economy. So, it's full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes of reason. It's not debt - it's investment! Cheers!

fish

Not to worry Scott....at least California is showing that it leads the way with prudent management and fiscal discipline.......err.....wait what....?

http://www.sacbee.com/2013/12/15/6000992/dan-walters-a-new-state-budget.html

Bill Tozer

Mr. Obermuller: Never fear, Bill. Never fear???? Heck, there is always something to fear. Just when we start to pull our heads above water, the bad news hits. Time to climb the Wall of Worry.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101269326

Scott Obermuller

Thanks for the link, Bill. Happily, that is something I don't have to worry about at all.
And I do know better than to buy the better half a vacuum cleaner or blender for Christmas.

Bill Tozer

Correct as usual. Everybody knows you buy them a vacuum cleaner for their B-Bay. Blenders? Never. But a good mop makes a great Valentine Day's present, if you don't forget the date. And a nice pair of toe nail clippers is always a hit.

Ben Emery

Rebane and his faithful 3 or 4 followers seem to alright with authoritarian profiling according to Bayesian theories. Selective enforcement is a very dangerous and regressive policy that these four or five individuals seem to favor, as long as it is not towards themselves or circles they seem to run in.

authoritarian- favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, esp. that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

-9 out 10 of the stops from 2002 to 2011, 3.8 million stops, were black or hispanic/ latino/ chicano, basically their skin tone is darker.

Once again the ignoring of the entire history of US discrimination is your guys downfall. On paper or in A-moral formula's it might look good but in practice they are purely intimidation policies aimed at keeping those with the skin color Star of David fearful, suppressed, and submissive.

You guys might not support more oppressive policies today but it rarely happens all at once but then again it seems you guys are just fine with Muslims being rounded up randomly and put in prison with charges or trial indefinitely. Also seem not to have a problem with those randomly picked up Muslims being tortured either. I do as do a majority of Americans and I protested President Bush and President Obama on these issues.

Here is an excerpt from Milton Mayer book

"They Thought They Were Free"
The Germans, 1933-45
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11845.htm

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined."

Ben Emery

Sentence should read .... Muslims being rounded up randomly and put in prison without charges or trial indefinitely.

Gregory

Ben, Ben, Ben...
"-9 out 10 of the stops from 2002 to 2011, 3.8 million stops, were black or hispanic/ latino/ chicano, basically their skin tone is darker."

Using both methods we find that the murder rate for blacks in NYC is about 13 times the white murder rate in NYC.

Murder Rate per 100k: (source New York Times), Population figures are 2006 estimate.

White: 1.3 (7% of perpetrators, 35% of population)
Asian: 1.7 (3% of perpetrators, 12% of population)
Hispanic: 7.0 (29% of perpetrators, 27% of population)
Black: 16.6 (61% of perpetrators, 24% of population)

Since 9 of 10 murderers in NYC are black or chicano, and that matches the ratio of stop and frisk incounters, it would seem there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for the comparative lack of white and asian frisks... there aren't as many white and asian thugs preying on their neighbors.


George Rebane

BenE 214pm - You unfortunately don't have a clue as to how pervasively Bayesian decision making is used in society and how it is saving your hide and generally contributing to your wellbeing day in and out.

Had you read and understood my first 1053am citation and its graphic, you could have checked the reported data yourself. The NYPD reported that "... over 70% of NYC perpetrators are black, and only 53% of those stopped are black. And of those stopped, fewer than 9% are frisked." We can guess your source for misunderstanding the "9 out of 10" assertion.

And if you believed even a smidgeon of your desperate claim of "3 or 4 faithful followers", then you and yours wouldn't waste your time writing intense and heartfelt essays into these column streams. Fortunately, RR readers of the conservative/libertarian stripe need not follow anyone's ideology. They are all capable of compiling and maintaining their own.

Finally, we notice that you sent your trusty platoon of crickets to answer my 1210pm, and just continued with the customary stream of unfounded charges.

fish

Congrats Ben you've discovered a den of doubleplusungood thinkers!

George Rebane

Here's a catchy tune a correspondent sent that'll get your toe tappin' and hips swayin'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=xEYFFiEnUjQ

Scott Obermuller

"Once again the ignoring of the entire history of US discrimination is your guys downfall."

Say what? It seems the left, when trying to argue a point, quickly run out of facts and reason and manages to come up with some sort of hyperbole conjured out of thin air.
The stop and frisk policy targets thugs and gang bangers in a very small and limited region experiencing a horrendous crime and violence problem. Areas that typically are not visited by Ben and his fellow travellers. Most of the blacks living in those areas are tired of the violence and are not being targeted by the police.
I'm not unaware of the fact that this policy does get close to the edge of what we can accept in the constant balancing act of public safety vs personal freedoms.
We can have that argument without fabricated nonsense.

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