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06 February 2014

Comments

MikeL

I wounder how dear Ben and the regressives will reconcile what the White House fabricators said regarding the recent CBO report about the Un-ACAs' effect on unemployment and how it is a good thing that 2,500,000 able bodied workers will choose to remain in poverty.
My guess is Bush along with the Coke bros and Walmart CEO's will be blamed.

fish

Ben only identifies with the successful (or perceived successful) progressives. Those who embarrass or diminish the brand are disavowed.

Ben Emery

Didn't read the report by I doubt it says unemployment will increase. I did hear a couple interviews and "news" feeds on it. If people choose to work less that will actually increase employment not decrease it.

If we want to a two or three point drop in unemployment drop the age for medicare to 55 and many people in the work force between the ages of 55 and 64 will retire because the only way they can keep health insurance at that age is by staying at their jobs.

If demand for a certain good or service takes x amount of labor and that labor voluntarily reduces their hours, what would a good business person do? Hire more labor to meet that demand.

Demand is what creates jobs. That is why the republican rhetoric that wealthy people create jobs is ludicrous.

Todd Juvinall

Never been hired by a poor person BenE. Have you?

fish

Demand is what creates jobs. That is why the republican rhetoric that wealthy people create jobs is ludicrous.

No more ludicrous than you saying that money creates demand during an earlier discussion on this topic. Your grasp of economics is a little like the old Steve Martin bit on how to become a millionaire and not pay taxes.....first get a million dollars.

Walt

Ben and friends who still buy "O"'s Super Bowl Sunday excrement
fling fest, in regards to the IRS scandal need to take note of this.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/05/email-irss-lerner-treasury-department-secretly-drafted-new-rules-to-restrict-nonprofits/

If you happen to read the comments,, be sure to read them by " best".
I have out done myself this time.

Joe Koyote

"Never been hired by a poor person BenE. Have you?" He probably has never been swindled by one either.

Gregory

Caveat emptor is just as important dealing with small fry as it is with the large ones, "Koyote". Yes, I have been swindled by the poor but it was small potatoes. I've not been swindled by anyone rich.

BTW there was a wonderful exchange between a Rude Center county employee and an interviewer a decade or so ago during a brouhaha over yard sales. "Well, a yard sale in the County lands outside the city limits is technically illegal because there is no permit for it" was what the future County pensioner told the journalist. A beautiful example of Soviet Bloc bureaucratic reasoning right here in Nevada City.

Todd Juvinall

JoeK, why are you speaking for BenE? Are you the same person? I would suggest the crime on the streets, the murders. muggings etc. and the bulk of most criminality is perped by people you would call "poor". Just read the paper here in our little county. See any rich people on the fronty pages every day? No, it is not the rich it is the "poor". I guess you are talking about the pot workers the "rich" growers are hiring? You libs are too much.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Gregory wrote: "Well, a yard sale in the County lands outside the city limits is technically illegal because there is no permit for it" was what the future County pensioner told the journalist"

Dr. Rebane wrote: 'In the West, everything that is not forbidden is allowed; in the East everything not allowed is forbidden.’ Cold War summary of the two sides that today highlights the difference between the Right and the Left.

Nicely dovetailed.

fish

Since this thread seems a bit moribund....let me just drop this here and see if we can perk things up a bit!

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Soul.shtml

Doug Keachie.....if you're lurking, retreat immediately to your fainting couch and contact competent medical/psychological help.

George Rebane

fish 828am - Amen, Mr Fish. Could not have said it better myself.

Joe Koyote

"the bulk of most criminality is perped by people you would call "poor". Surely you jest! In terms of the number of crimes yes. But if you look at the dollar amount, how many 7/11 stick-ups does it take to equal one Bernie Madoff? How many K-mart shoplifters does it take to equal one bank bailout? How many purse snatchers does it take to equal Boeing selling the army rubber cargo-loading rollers @$1768 each that cost $7 to make? Remember the $640 toilet seats, the $660 ashtrays, or the $74,000 ladders? I could go on for days listing examples of corporate criminality. Do you really think petty theft is on the same level as criminal conspiracy to defraud? Of course it is a lot more fun to pick on the poor because they are takers, takers of pennies when compared to the corporate thieves who rip people off for billions a year. Perhaps the poor folks who steal and rob are hungry? Rich crooks aren't hungry, just greedy.

George Rebane

JoeK 1011am - You were on a roll with the Madoffs et al Joe, but then went off the rails with the DoD procurements from defense contractors (the usual arguments by people who haven't a clue how government, especially DoD, procurement works). Nevertheless, now that you've posited that a few smart crooks with means can steal more than the hundreds of thousands of the poor and petty, what is your conclusion, your new public policy, your new approach to local level policing?? Is there anything more to offer here than the implied message that capitalists are society's real thieves, and therefore ...?

Todd Juvinall

How many billions/trillions have we spent on crime? Street crime must take a bunch. Just here in our little county the percentage of the full budget going to the Sheriff and Police is huge. Multiply that across the country. Most of the crime they deal with is the poor drug dealer, murderer, mugger.

fish

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 07 February 2014 at 10:11 AM

Indeed Joe and I agree in principle with your grievance! Unfortunately those of us who don't identify as progressive can't do much about the big fish when the Justice Department is in the hands of well...not to put too fine a point on it.....progressives.

Walt

Being my elder parent's guardian, gives me time to watch some older flicks
from days gone by.
I found one late last night that should be required viewing for LIBS of today. Put out in 1969, and titled " Wild in the streets". The story line is about the " Hip generation" getting control of the three branches of government. The mandatory retirement age of 30,, and turning one's self in at the age of 35 to internment camps. Don't worry oldsters,, you will be on a constant LSD trip for your elder entertainment.
With the way things are going, that flick isn't far off the mark from what the Hippies of then and now, dream of.
"O" must have seen it a long time ago and said, " HAY,,, We can DO that."

Joe Koyote

"when the Justice Department is in the hands of well...not to put too fine a point on it.....progressives." --Does it really make a difference who is in charge? I think the urge to frame things in us/them left/right contexts deflects attention away from the real issue, fraud is fraud regardless of politics.

Joe Koyote

George—To dismiss fraud on not understanding the procurement process is a bit flimsy of a rebuttal. Please explain to me how the defense procurement process forces suppliers to defraud the taxpayers?
Please explain why a single anonymous congress person would put a binding earmark of $2.5B for 10 C-17 aircraft that the Air Force says it doesn’t need? (2010)

“capitalists are society's real thieves” –Yes and No.... just the crooks. I just think the poor are scapegoats. It would take 25 million poor people stealing $100 each in food stamps to equal this one earmark.


Bill Tozer

Driving home last night I was listening to an interesting debate on KVMR about Barrackobamacare the job killer. The host proudly proclaimed that it was all media hype and you can get your facts straight here and nowhere else. His show sounded like a national show (before Amy Goodman comes on and I tune off). Anyway, I was screaming at the radio "It is not the media that says BarackObamacare will cost us 2.3 million full time jobs. Its the CBO report and the media was just reporting the contents of the report, not making it up or hyping it into hysteria." Well, the host was blaming it all on the media. What a spin! Blame the messenger, then shoot the messenger, and call the media hullabaloo a bunch of nonsense and definitely erroneous make believe reporting.

In my never humble opinion, there WAS NOT enough media coverage on the CBO report. Just another one day story.

fish

"when the Justice Department is in the hands of well...not to put too fine a point on it.....progressives." --Does it really make a difference who is in charge? I think the urge to frame things in us/them left/right contexts deflects attention away from the real issue, fraud is fraud regardless of politics.


....and putting your people into office was supposed to remedy the cozy relationship that was alleged to exist between the state and finance. How's things working out with democratic TOP MEN on the case?

fish

Hey....there's been a break in the case (It won't make Paul E happy....it's his preferred guy to warm a chair in the White House exonerating bankers while convictions scroll by in the background)....hell I just found credible evidence of criminal activity with little more than a browser and a cup of Peet's Coffee. Imagine what a guy with Eric Holders resources could manage.


http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=228367

Joe Koyote

"and putting your people into office " Who are my people? Once again you are politicizing fraud. To repeat myself, I don't really see that it makes much difference which political party is in the Whitehouse or controls Congress, fraud is still fraud and it continues unabated no matter who is in charge. It is a systemic issue, not a political one. I don't see anywhere in my statements where I even suggest that "my people" (whoever they are) would fix the problem or the problem would get any better or the problem is exclusively related to one political party or another. You are reading between the lines again. You seem to want to disagree even when there is nothing to disagree about just because you think I am and want to label me as a "progressive" and that makes me the enemy and my ideas suspect.

fish

Sigh....

"the bulk of most criminality is perped by people you would call "poor". Surely you jest! In terms of the number of crimes yes.

So you concede the point.


But if you look at the dollar amount, how many 7/11 stick-ups does it take to equal one Bernie Madoff?

Depends on the dollar amount of each (I'm generous....I'll let you settle on an average amount per stick up). Why would you try to draw an equivalence between the crimes....at least Madoffs victims didn't have a pistol stuffed in their face.


How many K-mart shoplifters does it take to equal one bank bailout?

Two separate issues.....Why are you forgiving of shoplifting? Ultimately it hurts the poor as well. You have a curious moral compass JoKe.

How many purse snatchers does it take to equal Boeing selling the army rubber cargo-loading rollers @$1768 each that cost $7 to make? Remember the $640 toilet seats, the $660 ashtrays, or the $74,000 ladders? I could go on for days listing examples of corporate criminality.

And it's fabulous watching you exempt the writer of checks to Boeing from your wrath ......you nitwits see all the crimes except those committed by Uncle Stupid.....like battered women you are in your thought processes!


Do you really think petty theft is on the same level as criminal conspiracy to defraud?

Nope. But I don't have to excuse it like you. Perfectly acceptable for an inner city thug to push a social security recipient down a flight of stairs for her purse in JoKes world.


Of course it is a lot more fun to pick on the poor because they are takers, takers of pennies when compared to the corporate thieves who rip people off for billions a year.

I take no pleasure in anyones distress JoKe. You on the other side seem to endorse criminal activity that has an immediate and profound impact on those least able to defend themselves against it...the inner city poor that you claim to care for so deeply.


Perhaps the poor folks who steal and rob are hungry?

Perhaps they are....since you are a deeply caring individual JoKe I'm sure you're out there every day improving their lives not just shaking your fist at those who you envy.


Rich crooks aren't hungry, just greedy.

How much money do you make JoKe? From what sources? How much do you give to alleviate the suffering of the downtrodden?


You seem to want to disagree even when there is nothing to disagree about just because you think I am and want to label me as a "progressive" and that makes me the enemy and my ideas suspect.

There is always something to disagree about! Everything you have ever written here would lead the reader to assume that you are a "progressive". Am I in error?

Your not my enemy but I certainly find your ideas suspect.

fish

Your not my enemy ......

/facepalm

You're not my enemy ....

George Rebane

JoeK 442pm - I notice that again you answered nothing from my 1022am that was asked of you to buttress your assertions, but instead asked more questions. No progress in this discussion, especially since you have not done your homework on how the DoD procurement process works. Hint: government knows only poorly what it needs and how to procure it. To get a firm and lowest fixed price bid, it has to specify the purchase in minute detail, a job it ALWAYS does very poorly. The result is that what it buys doesn't work, and the corrections procured in the same manner cost a bundle.

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