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04 February 2014

Comments

Russ Steele

Lefties launch a defense of the Boardwalk here: http://sierrafoothillsreport.com/2014/02/04/do-the-union-letter-writers-reflect-most-of-us-boardwalk-is-latest-example/

It is time for a vigorous debate on the Boardwalk issue. Jeff P and Ms Reinette Senum are in full attack mode, claiming that none of us can speak for the whole community, they know best. Heh!

Ben Emery

George,
Thanks for having an open mind and not wanting to side with the strict rules of compliance of private property in historic districts. They have their place but can get a bit overbearing at times. The complaints that are levied against the boardwalk have nothing to do with the structure itself and have existed long before the boardwalk was installed. Overall it has been a positive for Nevada City.

Ben Emery

Before people jump on it, yes I understand we are talking about public property in this case but was referring to Georges comment above.

"I am not of the school holding that functional historical sites must retain every color and cornice the way it was during a given period."

Paul Emery

Before jumping to conclusions on this one should look at Ashland Oregon which has a thriving tourist industry that Nevada City has many times tried to emulate. They have a public area and a park right in the middle of town that draws hundreds of young people every night in the summer, many of which might be considered similar to the so called undesirables described by Jean Gerard. The bottom line is that Ashland thrives on tourism and has no problem with the situation.

Worth thinking about.

Bonnie McGuire

I think that what business and property owners have to say is what matters. They're the ones who would know the facts, and have to live with it. I think it's disgusting that Mr. Pelline labels people who disagree with him "hard right" like some school yard bully.

Russ Steele

Ellen and I stopped in Ashland, stayed over night in one of the touristy motels and ate at the local cafes. When we tried to use the Park we were forbidden entry. No Dogs Allowed. Our dog is better behaved and cleaner that some to the people we observed in the Park from the street side. Tourism friendly yes, Dog friendly NO!

Todd Juvinall

Bonnie, Pelline made his bed and now he sees no one likes him. Anyone who is not him is "hard right". But why be upset with the term? To him it is an epithet, to me it is a badge of courage. He exhibits the worst of America the "hard right" the best. When he criticizes those that believe in the Constitution, smaller government and a balanced budget as "hard right", he shows all he is the "loony left". Too funny.

Regarding the boardwalk. It is peopled by folks who are different, no doubt about it. They have gravitated from Callanan to this spot and that is a good thing. The little park was dark and eery and I heard you could buy your drug of choice there without much interference. The Boardwalk is lit up so when they do their drug sales you may get a glance at it. But hey, everyone needs a place to go and since Nevada City wants to attract tourists with money, why not have a outdoor Star Wars Boardwalk attract the monied tourist?

Bill Tozer

Don't see this as an earth shaking issue. Nevada City has always attracted a certain element with its charm and friendly quaint storefronts. Hey, if you wanna hang out, Nevada City is a lot better than that ugly stretch behind Goodyear Tire or the new Safeway where campfires get out of control on occasion. Definitely not as atheistically pleasing to the eye as Nevada City, a small burg just a pleasant drive from Graniteville.

Since I normally avoid the historical district, I have no say in the matter. I have seen the sidewalk structure and driven slowly by it. Even stopped and sat down after circling round and round looking for a parking place. That new public parking off York street was ok, except there was a crazy dude hollering at the sky and blocking some poor dear tourist from backing up. My words to the local yokel did not help matters in the least, but I digress.

The sidewalk platform and benches were not bad with the pretty flowers and all. Sure, the planter boxes were stuffed with nasty cigarette butts, but I didn't mind. I was looking for a butt can anyway.

Sure is a lot nicer than the dingy park Mr.Todd refereed to. I am proud of little Nevada City for opening its big heart and welcoming all comers, great and small. On leaving from my last visit to the Historical District, I was reminded of that Southern Hospitality saying, "Don't be any stranger."

Jeff Pelline

Russ, check out all the dog friendly parks in Ashland, Ore.:
http://www.ashland.or.us/Page.asp?NavID=8761

As far as the Boardwalk, common sense will prevail tomorrow night, and the Boardwalk will continue. In fact, I'll bet "Ms. Reinette Senum's column" runs in The Union tomorrow, providing a more coherent and rational flip side of Jean Gerard of the Tea Party. (I ran into Brian Hamilton on the street, and we had a nice chat yesterday).

Here's what's interesting. This group paints Reinette as an extremist. But when given the choice, the middle is embracing Reinette's perspective on the Boardwalk, not the "hard right."

I'm increasingly convinced Todd is largely responsible for marginalizing this group. I recently asked a well-known conservative how the "Gang of Four" managed to win a majority of seats on the BOS. He answered with a straight face: "Todd."

As I explained to Bonnie, Nate Beason, who represents our family and many of yours, is a conservative. Sue McGuire , who ran against him, is "hard right." Therein lies the difference.

Todd Juvinall

Now isn't that interesting. I was walking the streets and asked how the Gang of Four was booted and they said, Peter and Izzy. (NH 2020 proponents) Coincidence there Jeff Pelline? I am sorry, well maybe not, that you travel in such a small circle that you really don't know anything about the county or the people in it.

I actually appreciate the fear I put into the hearts of the small band of liberals here. We on the "hard right" have th high ground on most issues here. I do disagree about Senum. She used taxpayer money to raise some worms I am told. It was a failure and yet you try and make a heroine out of her failure. That's what liberals do. Fail at almost everything then promote those who failed. You and your ilk, here locally, the state and the nation have promoted until you have reached the "Peter Principle". You have wrecked the place. You are so proud.

I also recall the newspaper started going to hell when you were the Editor Jeff Pelline. Was that all your fault or someone else? Word on the street it was you.

Barry Pruett

The boardwalk is nice enough. I spend a lot of time in Nevada City for work, and I have experienced that it is a little difficult driving down that street when other traffic is approaching, but it is cute.

The bigger issue is how Nevada City has changed over the passed 15 years. It just seems that there is quite a drug culture there. When walking down the street with my family, and my daughters asked me what that smell (weed) was, I was a little taken a back. It was the last time that we went there together. We spend much our time in Grass Valley...regularly drinking wine at Smith or Lucchesi on Friday evenings.

Nevada City should try to determine what is leading to the drug culture there. Grass Valley has overtaken Nevada City in the "which Nevada County town is better" question.

Bonnie McGuire

It's amazing to me that good American people who actually like the Constitution and Bill of Rights they swear an oath to uphold, and we all enjoy, are considered extremists ...or hard right by some. Very destructive.

Gregory


Can anyone point to where Jeff Pelline referred to any local as "hard left"? "Moderate" vs "hard right" is his usual dichotomy, and he's generally unable to notice differences between even left-libertarians and conservatives.It will be interesting to see how "purple" Nevada County will be in November.

Crabb got JP right with his locally famous Cartman parody strip. Sweet.

Regarding Nevada City and Ashland, no comparison can ever be made. Ashland is a wealthy college town 7 times the size of Nevada City, maybe 10 miles from a metropolitan center of 70,000 and part of a greater metropolitan area of 200,000. The Oregon Shakespeare Festival is destination quality professional theater with multiple venues that runs most of the year (this year it starts Feb 14 and runs into November). The cash flowing into the town is constant and considerable, and it's closer to Medford than Nevada City is to Auburn, just 10 miles north on I-5.

Gregory

Barry, my guess is NC has been more a part of the grower's culture because it's sleepier, the closest real town to the rowdy NSJ area that is more of a hotbed of growing, and the GVPD are more gung ho in busting loadies and drunks alike.

Personally, I think the boardwalk is a wash; the inhabitants are generally well behaved, probably better than in the hangouts frequented before the boardwalk was built.

If the businesses abutting it ever want to change the clientèle, I'd recommend Bach and Mozart at a low to medium volume.

Gregory

How many have noticed the hydroponics supply billboard next to The Willo on '49? Faces the traffic flowing from North San Juan into Nevada City.

Todd Juvinall

It is interesting to me that government at all levels will spend so much time on things like the Boardwalk and never ever figure out how to get the economy and jobs back as a priority. Nevada City leadership is no better than the Harry Reid Senate of the California Legislature. At least Grass Valley has some people with brains running the place.

fish

Never one to hesitate from going off topic......

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/04/sheila-jackson-lee-writing-executive-orders-for-obama-to-sign-our-number-one-agenda/


Look everyone....... it's Bens democracy........Bwahahahahahahahahahahahah!

Gregory

I see Pelline has done his usual hack job on this thread back at his sandbox. No, Jeff, my comment about the billboard wasn't about Nevada City, it was about North San Juan, not to mention some of the many growers in county territory down Newtown Road, which stretches from The Willo to Bitney Springs Road.


Ben Emery

Thanks Barry and Gregory. Overall the boardwalk has been a positive for Nevada City and a negative for a very loud small group of people.

Ben Emery

Fish,
I am not for executive orders I am for democratic republic governance. Representation for the interests of the people not interests of big business.

Walt

Speaking of the "boardwalk",, wasn't there a "hippy cam" trained on it for a while? Heck. It still may be up and running. Nev. City ( Nevada County for that matter)has turned into bum central. I have seen more than one bum pushing loaded shopping carts, up hill, on 49 just to "get there". It didn't matter what time of year. " Build it,, and they will come". ( Utah's place, and other facilities of the like)
But where are the "real" compassionate LIBS? How come they haven't taken the bums into their own homes? The "Adopt a bum program". ( we have programs for just about everything else.)

Gregory

Not a net positive, Ben, just a wash, and the people who are offended by the boardwalk inhabitants are not without a rational basis; I suspect for every loud objector there are many quiet ones.

George Rebane

I draw your attention to the 5feb14 update and Ms Senum's piece on the boardwalk that appears in the 5feb14 print edition of The Union.

RL Crabb

So how many bums have you rescued, Walt?

fish

I am not for executive orders I am for democratic republic governance. Representation for the interests of the people not interests of big business.

But these are progressives Ben. Your people, with whom you share a common ideology. Those who govern to benefit all of humankind! Democracy is their god...why would they take action contrary to democratic progressive principles?

Gregory

RL, wasn't it Ms Senum pushing the building of what amounted to large doghouses to shelter the homeless?

Todd Juvinall

Walt, you are a hoot. We do seem to have many programs paid by the taxpayers to help the less fortunate. I do recall the FUE making a statement a couple of winters ago that he would use the yacht in his driveway as a shelter for those folks. The follow up on it though showed he was simply bloviating. No nme was allowed in the yacht.

The point that seems to be missed about the Boardwalk is it takes up valuable road space and some parking slots. Their could be a real net loss in revenue when you add up the loss of parking fines and space for patrons on the street. Of course, maybe now that the DA's office is in the old B of A, the cops might check the pockets of the drug dealers at the Boardwalk. Well, maybe not.

I do appreciate the fact that Walt made and paid a lot of taxes when he was busy excavating and that money went to these feel good programs. I find it interesting that Utah's Place is named after a self described socialist as well.

Joe Koyote

Personally, I don't get how this is at all a political football. What does right/left have to do with the boardwalk other than yet another dumbass line drawn in the sand to further divide people based on the political affinity of which local personalities support or don't support the idea? Whoever it was that said local politics are so nasty because the stakes are so small was right on the money. It is up to the City Council to decide. If you are a resident of NC then go to the council meetings and express your opinion. If you are not a resident then it really isn't any of your business just like local non-partisan elections are no business of national Super Pacs of any political stripe. It you don't like the outcome just speak with your wallets. The market fixes all things, right? Every day our nation becomes more polarized, more divided and much of it is just plain petty BS like this.

RL Crabb

Gregory11:41 - It's just that I have a hard time understanding how you can mock people who are trying to help the homeless, no matter what their politics.

Joe Koyote

Addendum -- about the hydroponics sign by the Willo -- so f---ing what? That is free market capitalism at work. They are doing nothing illegal. If it is OK to sell one of the most addictive substances on Earth (nicotine) in every grocery store in the country, it's OK for someone to sell hydroponic supplies to someone who may or may not be growing pot. BTW CVS Pharmacies announced today that they will cease selling tobacco products as of 10/1/14. Given the documented health threats of nicotine use, they felt selling tobacco was hypocritical to their role as a health care provider.

Joe Koyote

"I find it interesting that Utah's Place is named after a self described socialist as well." -- Perhaps it is because he cared about the plight of the homeless and tried to help them out. Perhaps they should have named it the Todd "remember me I started CABPRO" Homeless Shelter and then locked the doors because the homeless don't pay taxes. The county would still have to pay to bury them anyway after they starved, froze, or both so what is the difference? The main reasons people are homeless in America are medical bills and job loss. It is not because they are lazy and want to be on the dole.

Gregory

RL, I wasn't "mocking the homeless", I was mocking those who thought building them doghouses was a solution. Ten points and a warm fuzzy gold star for caring from those who think it's the thought that counts, zero for not actually helping things.

The politics wasn't and isn't a consideration.

Gregory

"about the hydroponics sign by the Willo -- so f---ing what? That is free market capitalism at work. They are doing nothing illegal."

The "f---ing what" was simply pointing out an answer to what others were wondering... why the pot culture was so prevalent in Nirvana Silly. The store put their one (I assume it's the only one) billboard just past Newtown Road and CA-49; I assume they know where their customers are from.

I don't give a flying you-know-what about people smoking pot discreetly and not being a danger to others, however, I know of at least one home in my neighborhood with a resident sociopath or two with anger management issues that has had a grow on and off for years, and that is not an uncommon happenstance. It's a business choice that doesn't attract a lot of former Eagle Scouts.

Joe Koyote

Just drive down any freeway in CA and you are going to see billboards for pot distributors and recommendations and growing supplies. It's big business. It's now an accepted part of the culture and it's everywhere. People ought to just get used to it.

Gregory

So, Koyote, do you think tobacco companies should be allowed to advertise again? After all, it's everywhere and engravings of dead US presidents who were tobacco farmers are in wallets worldwide.

No, commercial growing and public use isn't even close to being an accepted part of the culture... legalization does not mean acceptance, it means it isn't considered criminal by a majority, and that's a good thing. Alcoholism isn't criminal, either, but few accept it as behavior to be "accepted".

RL, rereading, you didn't claim I was mocking the homeless, sorry.

If it's wrong to mock politicians who undertake boneheaded crusades, your own income would go to zero, and doghouses for the homeless is no solution even if the problems of security and placement were not solved (and found to be unsolvable) before the dog and pony show of a big construction party or two to make them.

One of the great Tom Lehrer lines from a half century ago... "We are the Folk Song Army, every one of us ... cares! We all hate poverty, war and destruction, unlike the rest of you squares." And that's from a fellow who is as firmly on the left as Rebane is on the right.

Joe Koyote

1) Who said anything about commercial growing? I was referring to growing for medical/personal use only as the law allows. And the original complaint was about a hydroponics sign which is in the eye of the beholder. You saw the sign and though "pot" someone else might see "bean sprouts" .. not quite the same as an ad for Marlboro. 2) I guess "acceptance" is how you define it. Recent polls indicate over half of all Americans think pot should be legalized and regulated. If that isn't acceptance, what is? 3) There is no beneficial anything to tobacco. There are very few positive aspects to alcohol. There are no documented harmful effects or deaths from pot and many positives. You are comparing avocados to trout to rabbits, three different substances, each of which needs to be addressed separately. Personally, as the biggest known cause of cancer, I would ban tobacco advertising altogether and I bet health care costs would go down.

Todd Juvinall

JoeK, as usual you always get me to laugh. You libs don't do anything for the homeless yet claim the folks like me are evil anti homeless and poor advocates. That is why I laugh. You personally probably have never helped a person in need with your own time and money. Tell us the truth now, you are a piker right? I bet your donation line on the tax form is a big fat zero, right? Of course you will lie and say it isn't, but we all know the libs lie about everything (see Gore and Biden tax returns). We on the right don't pat ourselves on the back about helping others like you hypocrite libs. We just do it and move on. You want us o give you an award because you care. Ahhh, so sweet.

Regarding Utah. Many people care about the homeless. I would say Bill Schultz should have had the honor of the name. He did more for the homeless and addicted than any lib but golly, he was a Republican, not a socialist so they passed him by. So JoeK, tell us all right here how you spend your resources on the poor. Oh, can't? What a hoot!

fish

I would ban tobacco advertising altogether and I bet health care costs would go down.

Yeah....because nobody smoked before Joe Camel showed them the way.

Paul Emery

It is estimated that MJ cultivation in Nevada County is a 200 Million annual business which far dwarfs logging, mining or any other industry in our county. This is based of course on estimations but statewide cultivation is a 14 Billion a year enterprise. These numbers can't be proven however they are generally accepted as in the ball park. Any way the "trickle down" is huge for retail, real estate and school incomes. With our economy being as fragile as it is we should not bite the hand that feeds.

Joe Koyote

Yeah....because nobody smoked before Joe Camel showed them the way.- your kidding right? The link between advertising, particularly to teens, and smoking is well documented by many liberal do-gooder university studies. However studies by the American Tobacco Institute inform us that smokers are calmer and more successful, oh yeah, and better public speakers.

Todd Juvinall

Estimated crop value? How the heck is that possible? Also, the sale of it derives no tax for the population. I say if the stuff is grown let us have a tax like Colorado just passed. 25%. What do you say PaulE?

I see JoeK is the chicken I knew he was. Never answers but hey, libs are all liars anyway. Too funny.

fish

Yeah....because nobody smoked before Joe Camel showed them the way.- your kidding right?

Your difficulties with sarcasm are hardly my responsibility. Joe Camel has been banished to the nether regions of advertising and apparently the teen smoking rate has started creeping up again anyway.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/02/04/fda-anti-smoking-ads/5186731/

I guess you couldn't save them after all Joe Kamel!

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 05 February 2014 at 02:50 PM

Damn Paul....agreement twice in one week! This and we're expecting more rain. Getting weird out there!

Bonnie McGuire

Regarding the homeless problems in Nevada City and Grass Valley. The only difference is the size of the towns and what we hear from the local media. Grass Valley has a big problem. Some businesses would like to be able to put up fences. I feel sorry for down and out homeless people, but know the biggest contributor to it are addiction to drugs and alcohol....according to the stats. We all contribute to helping poor people...through taxes (welfare etc), donations to charitable institutions like the Salvation Army and other churches, and Hospitality House. But in order to get help individuals who need help have to do their part. They have to want a better life and make the effort to change. As a County Health Director once said, "It's a waste of time and money trying to help someone who doesn't want to change their behavior." Until this happens big time everyone had better keep their house and vehicles locked, because these sad souls are desperately trying to survive their addictions.

Paul Emery

Todd

I believe there will be a Proposition on this Fall's ballot to legalize and tax recreational Marijuana. Nice to know it will have your support. Wanna gather signatures? I'm sure they can use some help.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, where in my comment did I say I supported your pot garden? Still putting words in other people's mouths. Too funny.

Paul Emery

In your words Todd:

"I say if the stuff is grown let us have a tax like Colorado just passed. 25%."

Todd Juvinall

Where in that is a support from me?

Paul Emery

So then I take it you're in favor of criminalization and support all the taxpayer dollars that it takes to enforce it.

Todd Juvinall

Where did I say that?

Gregory

We interrupt this squabble for an important weather statement from the National Weather Service

"TIMING AND STRENGTH: A SERIES OF IMPULSES WILL BRING PERIODS OF MODERATE TO HEAVY RAINFALL ACROSS INTERIOR NORTHERN CALIFORNIA. THE FIRST WAVE SHOULD ARRIVE FRIDAY, WITH SUCCESSIVE WAVES CONTINUING THROUGH SUNDAY. CURRENT FORECASTS SUGGEST THAT 2 TO 4 INCHES OF RAIN WILL BE POSSIBLE ACROSS PARTS OF THE SACRAMENTO AND NORTHERN SAN JOAQUIN VALLEYS. BETWEEN 4 TO 8 INCHES OF LIQUID EQUIVALENT RAINFALL WILL BE POSSIBLE OVER THE MOUNTAINS."

Gregory

" You saw the sign and though "pot" someone else might see "bean sprouts" .. not quite the same as an ad for Marlboro."

There is no chance the billboard (looked more closely, it isn't hydroponics but another growing product) is aimed at someone growing just a few plants since it mentions palette loads of the stuff.


"2) I guess "acceptance" is how you define it. Recent polls indicate over half of all Americans think pot should be legalized and regulated. If that isn't acceptance, what is?"

I already made that clear, but here goes. My party has been fighting for re-legalization of all drugs for at least the three decades I've been a registered and occasionally a dues paying, card carrying member. Typically, the objections would be "you can't just *let* people have them" and the philosophical counter is, the people have them, the question is do you throw them into jail for it, or maybe shoot them for running away?

Another standard objection was/is, if you're not willing to throw them in jail for it, they'll think it's OK, and the counter is, not being criminal doesn't mean it's OK, it means you're not hurting other people so it's wrong to take away your freedom and put you in jail for a few years.

There is nothing fundamentally wrong with being judgmental; a good argument can be made that lack of judgment is the cause of many of our problems. Shame is good when the conduct is shameful. Do I care if you hang out and smoke all day? Not a bit, especially if you're a trust fund baby doing your best to squander the last of the Rockefeller fortune of your branch of the family. If you're on the dole and taking food from the foodbank that should go to people who are trying their damnedest to feed themselves, you should be ashamed of yourself and should probably be allowed to be hungry for awhile.

Paul Emery

Gosh Todd if you're not a supporter of legalization and taxation and you're not in favor of criminalization then where do you stand?

Dave

I read with amazement (and dismay) one writer’s reference to Ashland Oregon’s Plaza as a success in urban experiments and something NC could look forward too. I was born and raised in Oregon, lived in Ashland OR and still visit the town frequently. The plaza area, quoted as a success by the writer, is far from reality. In truth, it is an abject failure and the scourge of most local businesses and residents. Please note a recent local article about the untenable situation.

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120416/NEWS/204160335

Homeless problem disturbs Ashland businesses, OSF
Survey: Concerns include fear for people's safety and that aggressive panhandling will lead to loss of tourists
By Vickie Aldous
for the Mail Tribune
A survey of Ashland business owners on the impacts of homeless loiterers downtown found widespread concern for the safety of themselves, employees and patrons, and fears that aggressive panhandlers are turning away tourists.
The head of the Oregon Shakespeare Festival also sent a letter to the City Council this month saying OSF has been troubled for years by the impact of certain homeless people on the community.
"This is a serious problem that could affect the well-being and economic health of our community," Executive Director Paul Nicholson wrote in the letter.
The survey of downtown businesses was conducted by the Ashland Chamber of Commerce during spring break in late March.
Business owners reported they had been spit upon and their tires slashed. They said residents and tourists often are harassed by panhandlers when they walk through downtown, chamber board member Lisa Beam told the City Council earlier this month.
Nicholson wrote that while some people are trying to escape homelessness, others choose to be disruptive and tend to congregate in front of OSF's Black Swan Theatre on Main Street, where they often are under the influence of intoxicants.
They harass OSF patrons and employees, and intimidate people by aggressively asking for money, Nicholson said. This has led many people to avoid the sidewalk and plaza area in front of the theater, and some patrons have said they are reluctant to return to Ashland.
Nicholson said OSF is committed to working with local businesses, the city's Homelessness Steering Committee and political leaders to find lasting solutions.
Tensions about homeless issues downtown are rising as Ashland's busy summer tourism season approaches.
Additionally, a mentally ill homeless man is believed to have set a blaze that charred several downtown plaza businesses, leading to more than $250,000 in damages. Raymond Lee Wilson, 37, allegedly started the fire during a March 19 downtown rampage that police said included throwing rocks through two business windows, stealing from one and vandalizing a vehicle.
Some business people have asked for an expanded police presence downtown.
Ashland Police Chief Terry Holderness said he has one officer devoted to downtown patrol and regularly authorizes overtime for a plainclothes officer and uniformed officer to work the downtown area together.
Officers who are writing reports and records clerks try to frequently staff a police substation across Main Street from the downtown Plaza, he said.
"We put a lot of resources into dealing with problems in the downtown relative to the resources that we have," Holderness said.
Holderness and City Administrator Dave Kanner are seeking authorization this spring from the Ashland Citizens Budget Committee — which includes the mayor and the City Council — for an additional police officer. That person would devote 70 percent of his or her time to the downtown, with 30 percent of hours devoted to Ashland schools, Holderness said.
It would take almost a year for that person to begin work because of police academy and training requirements, Holderness said.
Earlier this month, the City Council directed Holderness to draft a new "time-out" law for possible adoption by the council before the summer. Repeat offenders would be barred from the downtown for a certain period of time. They could be arrested for trespassing if they return.
The Chamber of Commerce plans to install donation boxes in front of the Black Swan Theatre and other downtown spots. Signs with the boxes would encourage people to help fund services for homeless people instead of giving to panhandlers.
The Chamber plans to install the donation boxes before the end of May. Donations will go to St. Vincent de Paul, which has programs to aid homeless people and to help people avoid falling into homelessness in the first place.

Russ Steele

Dave@11:27

Thanks for the reality check. The imagination of our local progressive often gets out of hand.

Todd Juvinall

PAulE, you are just a hoot. I don't even have to speak when discussing things with you, you do it for me.

PaulE, why did you oppose affordable housing projects in our area? Are you a limousine liberal? Also, how many plants do you have at your residence?

Scott Obermuller

From Paul - "It is estimated that MJ cultivation in Nevada County is a 200 Million annual business which far dwarfs logging, mining or any other industry in our county."
So it's 'big business'. Ben will now have to jump in and denounce the pot growers as going against the 'people'. Right Ben?
When tabacky is outlawed and you can't buy it in stores folks will start growing their own along side their pot and it will be cool again for the left. Another reason I can't follow any sort of logic from the left.

Ben Emery

Boardwalk gets year extension despite have a 50 to 6 in favor comment session with the local businesses on the majority side.

Paul Emery

Dave

The area I refer to is not in front of the Theatre but in a different part of town. My sources in the area tell me it's appreciated as an alternative being on the sidewalks.

Paul Emery

Gosh Todd are you asking me for a biological inventory of what is growing on my property. Exactly what "plants" are you referring to. Be specific.

Gregory

Dave, Ashland is a lovely place, takes an hour and a half one way in a small plane from Grass Valley, then about a half hour to snag a taxi to go the last mile or so into town.

Sorry to hear of the homeless issues in the town; one of the problems that generally gets ignored or even denied by the progresses who care, oh, so very, very much, that the more you make something like homelessness easier to bear, you get more of the homeless. Even Gandhi had to face that truism when subsidizing homespinning not only increased the well being of the very poor who were homespinning their own clothing but drove the total numbers up dramatically as the subsidies had made homespinning a valid choice for many.

No, they weren't choosing poverty, just making the best choices they could see in the circumstances.

Paul Emery

Faithful RR readers what you are seeing here is typical Todd Juvinall Chickenhawk tactics. Speak loudly and carry no stick. You asked me about plants at my residence and I asked for clarification as to what plants you refer to? I'd like to answer your question but you need to be specific. Clarify the intent of your question and I'll give it a go.

Todd Juvinall

Golly PaulE, chicken hawk? Sorry I am not a homosexual, are you? You have a pot garden PaulE? Also, are you a regular pot smoker? Hell, you asked me when my kids were born so asking you about your dope habits should be welcomed by you. You are such a staunch defender of the pot and the right to smoke and grow it. So, tell all the readers here PaulE, how often do you smoke pot and how many plants are in your ownership. Bet you dodge as usual.

Bill Tozer

Of course the topic of homeless people always turns to drugs and alcohol and mental illness, be it in Frisco or Nevada City or Ashland, Ore. Turn on the lights and you will attract bugs.

I preferred to call myself a wanderer, vagabond, a rolling stone gathers no moss kind of renegade back in the days of wine and roses. Homeless? Never entered my mind once. I was lingering with a purpose, never loitered. Homeless were skid row bums, chicks between guys; not young bucks such as I. Smoked a lot of pot during those days and anything else I could get my hands on except needles or pills. Wasn't my style. Never used the title hobo or train tramp cause that was property of the generation preceding me.

Now, back to the moveable wooden structure or boardwalk. Madeline Helling said it right. 47 years ago the city council went all out for an historical district and it probably saved Nevada City from going under. The boardwalk is not historical in appearance by any stretch of the imagination. But, it is nice. Some may argue that allowing the boardwalk bench thing is the slippery slope to other exceptions, like serving that dinner on the public streets and charging people for it. Never has Nevada City use public streets to charge people to sit down at the love feast as a minor example.

Just to touch on a nuance Dr. Rebane mentioned. It seems Nevada City is moving more toward the European feel than the Gold Rush. I read of the goal of a community center with little shops designed to be like they have across the Atlantic Ocean in the Fatherland or Motherland, depending own your ancestors. Old Country feel. Maybe like France or Bohemia. Cobblestone looks great if you ask me and most smaller Euroland villages have a town square as the hub of the spokes. Certainly South and Central America got that design from the Spaniards. Just seems with the hills and current structures, sticking a community center/market place at the bottom of Broad Street just ain't the old country. There was once a nice tunnel craved out of the rock going from the Stonehouse to the bordellos. Need to get away? Darn freeway ruint that.

At least Grass Valley as two European round-dee-bouts and at least one in Truckee. The way our country is heading, heck, turn all of it into Euroland #2. Very charming and apropos.

Joe Koyote

How many beers do you have in your fridge Todd? How often do you get drunk? I think Paul's pot use or not, is really none of your business.

Todd Juvinall

Are you his pot smoking pal JoeK? Of course my questions are relevant to the discussion. You and your ilk are constantly asking very personal questions of conservatives but cower when you are asked about your habits. I bet you are a heavy smoker aren't you JoeK? Your personal habits would probably scare any normal person.

Paul Emery

Bill

Our local Historical Society has created a snapshot of what they consider to be the Historical Nevada City which by and large has helped Nevada City economically and culturally. The question is how far do you go. The great baseball player Satchel Paige sums it when he writes "It's okay to look back, just don't stare."

Commercial street is far less dangerous today than it was in 1976 when I first moved here when there was a bar named Pete's place where Coopers is today that you could not walk in front of for fear of being beat up or molested if you were a woman, gay or hippie. Not many tourists on that side of the street in'76. It;s far better today for sure.

Paul Emery

I don't smoke pot Todd but I suggest you might consider it for medicinal purposes. It is claimed that Cannabis offers relief from paranoid anxiety problems. I don't know if it will help you but you've got to try something.

Todd Juvinall

Paul;E I don't need anything like you have suggested. Funny how people like, plain normal folks, look odd to the "progressive" mind. Too funny.

Paul Emery

Just trying to help Todd. Glad you're OK. I makes me sad to see people suffer.

Todd Juvinall

I can send help PaulE. You seem down.

Ben Emery

Hey Bill,
Don't you find it funny that South America (Spaniards) and now Nevada County are trying to preserve the history of oppression and theft?
Do you know how and why the Spanish influence in the America's except for Brazil that speaks Portuguese?
I wonder how much input the Maidu or Nisenan people have in the historical society?

My Spanish/ Portuguese ancestors (Garcia) in California had their land stolen when California became a state that was a result of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

I get fighting a war and losing has consequences but the Mexican- American War wasn't fought in California and those who lived here should not have had their land stolen. Then we could go back even further to the building of the Missions with slave labor of the indigenous populations. If we look at history without the patriotic lens we would see the entire history of our nation is steeped in anything but liberty for all. The only shame I might feel personally from our history is that we are very selective in the retelling that history. Truth shall set us free. There are no amount of reparations that could satisfy the destruction of entire cultures and sometimes the extinction but would could do is acknowledge the history for what it is so we do not repeat it.

fish

Again time for a patented Ben Emery fisking.....

Don't you find it funny that South America (Spaniards) and now Nevada County are trying to preserve the history of oppression and theft?

Are you asserting that South America and Nevada County are making false representations in their presentation of the regions history?

Do you know how and why the Spanish influence in the America's except for Brazil that speaks Portuguese?

Another extremely poorly crafted Ben Emery accusatory sentence.....but feel free to elaborate.

I wonder how much input the Maidu or Nisenan people have in the historical society?

Are you asserting that they've been denied the opportunity?

My Spanish/ Portuguese ancestors (Garcia) in California had their land stolen when California became a state that was a result of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.

If that's the case then you should pursue legal action. I wouldn't get my hopes up though.


Then we could go back even further to the building of the Missions with slave labor of the indigenous populations.

Because the mission system was a product of Spanish colonization is this a tacit admission that Ben Emery is descended from slave holders. This explains much about your obsession with the notion of "corruption of the blood".

If we look at history without the patriotic lens we would see the entire history of our nation is steeped in anything but liberty for all.

Indeed....but the United States did pretty well compared to most other nations/empires historically. Not perfect....not horrible.


The only shame I might feel personally from our history is that we are very selective in the retelling that history.

Why would the "conscience of a nation" ever have cause to feel guilt or shame about any aspect of history?

Truth shall set us free.

Empty platitude.

There are no amount of reparations that could satisfy the destruction of entire cultures and sometimes the extinction but would could do is acknowledge the history for what it is so we do not repeat it.

No..no..no.....I'm pretty sure that you want to set the Wayback machine back to the meeting between the Arawaks and whomever showed on their beach and no further. If we're going to do this lets do it right and wipe the slate clean entirely. How about pursuing the ancient Egyptians....or the descendants of the Mongol Hordes? What about the Assyrians or the Persians....I'm pretty sure that during their expansionist phase they trampled on someones lawn! While we're at it we should probably go after the Romans and it just wouldn't be right to let the Spaniards off the hook for their antics......Talk to me about reparations after you resolve these outstanding issues.


Bill Tozer

Gee Ben, I was refering to the architurual influence of the Old World upon the New World. We even got some Chuck Dickens influence on the top of Broad Street in Nevada City, CA (a small berg a few thousand miles south of the Great Frozen Tundra).
Don't know what kind of architural influence that Attila the Hun left in his wake, but I thought I saw some yurls on the backside of Ananda in what then known as the "primitive area" years ago when I was prospecting up in their neck of the woods. Even once picked up an escapee hitchhiking from the primitive area. Actually, he was just sneaking out to buy himself a can of tuna and consume it with no witnesses. Guess living in those Attila tents gives one a real hankering for Starkiss Tuna. Yak, yak, pun intended.

I love the architure of Ecuador, Columbia, Nigaruaga. Peru ain't my favorite spot, Bolivia is great, but its the architure of Latin America I keep dear to my heart.

Wasn't talking culture Brother Ben. But now that you mention it, sleeping in old slave quarters or under totem poles kind of gives me the weebie geebies. Too many angry ghosts with wicked senses of humor. Stop by sometime and we'll play cowboys and injuns.

Todd Juvinall

I was considering a lawsuit against the ancient Romans for enslaving my people of the white color. But, alas, the world of injustice has moved on. Ever notice that most Russians have a oriental look in their eyes? Genghis etal raped and pillaged the words people all the way to Poland. BenE, please help us Europeans who are the ancestors to the terrible invasions of Kublai Khan!

Regarding the local Indians. They came across the Bering Straits and took the land from the people that were already here. I saw that on the History Channel. So, where is your outrage BenE?

George Rebane

As have all group entities of living things – swarms, herds, flocks, colonies, prides,… - so have human families, tribes, ethnicities, cultures, kingdoms, and nation states competed for both survival and/or supremacy. And as long as there are limited resources such competitions will continue either to subjugation or even unto death. To believe otherwise does not suit the reasoned nature of the discussions and debates attended on these pages.

We seem to have come to seeking peaceful coexistence only when our technologies of destruction became so powerful and dispersed that mutual destruction was the likely outcome of war. And then only until some other development came about that would tilt the advantage enough to make going at it once more worth the desired end.

The first justification of contest and conquest was always to secure Lebensraum for us and ours. Then we developed more sophisticated reasons based on ideologies to brandish the sword – it was for the good of the soon to be vanquished. At first it was religions – true believers vs the heathens and infidels – following the dictates of their gods. But then came the dispensers of global social justice – true believers following the dictates of their godless philosophies – who have showed us what sums must be used to count human misery and death. 'For the Good of Mankind' is an altar on which the sacrifice of no amount of fellow humans will suffice.

Whether fortunate survivors or the latest conquerors, we are all the inheritors of such a history. And we have invented nothing better that we can bequeath our children save a tentative peace that is built upon endless gains in technology and productivity. No stable point, no eternal pax humana has been identified or offered by any but the greatest killers to date. And among us the message of their ideological descendants is still alive and perhaps even ascendant.

Todd Juvinall

How true George. But when a person such as BenE chooses to ignore all history except a few items that fit his model, then the explanation is clear. Hitler used faulty history to murder millions of human beings and without a blink. Stalin and Mao did too. Khan murdered countries of people and stacked their skulls at the front gates to tell the next city they better bow to him. But BenE and the social justice types would give up their own lives to further their cause. Oops, crap, no they wouldn't. They would be the camp guards.

Religion, especially the New Testament of Jesus should be totally accepted by BenE but we see he is unable to do that. All that is wrong with mankind may be fixed by accepting the Savior. BenE should try it.

Bill Tozer

I read the former mayor's opinion piece in the Union. Somehow it was not behind the paywall. I read Mr. Paul's last response to me. Seems like Nevada City has improved. If Paul says it is much better and the former mayor says they are getting people from blocking the sidewalks, then that is good news. Progress not perfection as the old saying goes.

When the girls were young, I had two back to back bad experiences in Nevada City strolling around with them on a walk. The first was a VW bus (old hippy van type) literally drifted on the sidewalk at the corner of Broad and Pine and I had to jerk the girls back to avoid unspeakable disaster. The smell of reefer madness filled the air. Then there were young people screaming profanities into the air just for fun. Not family friendly in broad daylight. Then as we continued our walk, a freaky looking type was throwing ice cubes at us from his drinking cup.

The second time (thinking it was just a fluke) was similar, except for the VW Bus incident. Did find it amusing that a young chick asked me for some spare change while breastfeeding her baby. Pretty girl, but again not family friendly. So I did not step foot in the historical district for a few years after.

All this to say is I am gladdened to hear that the sidewalks are becoming less riddled with obstacles and necessary measures are beginning to take hold. Oh the people business is a messy business.

Ben Emery

Bill,
I know you were talking about the historical architecture and whose architecture do you think that is? The point, Nevada City is trying to hang onto its 150 plus year history when the history of the area inhabitants goes back thousands of years. Goes to show history we are taught is only a brief glimpses into history by those who sit in power allow to be celebrated.

To answer my first question about the Spanish influence over the Americas was the Pope deemed it to be. In doing so he ignored the thousands of years of culture and history already lived in the Americans and started a massive genocidal conquest that is still taking place today with indigenous people.

fish

To answer my first question about the Spanish influence over the Americas was the Pope deemed it to be. In doing so he ignored the thousands of years of culture and history already lived in the Americans and started a massive genocidal conquest that is still taking place today with indigenous people.

Don't you have someone to go be "In Solidarity" with?

Paul Emery

Todd

What does Manifest Destiny mean to you?

Todd Juvinall

I think we have alreday fulfilled it PaulE. What does it mean to you?

Ben Emery

Fish,
I think a daily reminder of all the political actions going on around the world is now called for.


Turkish police fire tear gas to break up Internet protest
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/08/us-turkey-internet-protest-idUSBREA170NK20140208

Sarajevo hoses down following night riots
http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/02/08/sarajevo-hoses-down-following-night-riot?videoId=276761722&videoChannel=117760

General News about Asia civil unrest
http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/protests-greet-new-year-in-southeast-asia/

South Africa: Four killed at protest over water shortages
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-25840703

Brazil: Rio protest over transport fare rise ends in violence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-26077374

Trans-Pacific Partnership protests across North America; more than 45 communities will say No More NAFTAs!
http://canadians.org/blog/trans-pacific-partnership-protests-across-north-america-more-45-communities-will-say-no-more

Australia - protests over new shark cull rules
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/25996682

Predator Sharks are indicator species that literally affect the rest of the marine ecosystem, which in turn impacts all ecosystems on the planet.

Paul Emery

Pretty much Imperialism and conquest of those weaker than ourselves for the purposes of wealth and power.

Todd Juvinall

Yeah PaulE, we are just a imperialist country seeking wealth and power. Ever been south of the border PaulE? You wanna give back LA, and the rest of the Treaty lands to Mexico? Amazing. But pretty funny.

BTW, is the journey to find wealth and power only America's? Didn't your Macedonian Greek conquer half the known world? Too funny.

fish

I think a daily reminder of all the political actions going on around the world is now called for.

Thanks Ben.

fish

Pretty much Imperialism and conquest of those weaker than ourselves for the purposes of wealth and power.

Or pretty much what humanity has done since its inception. One would think that this notion would make you a fairly ardent Christian Paul. Have I guessed incorrectly?

Ben Emery

Paul,
These authoritarians don't get the point that all of their so called "success" was made much easier by having a male christian imperialistic system in place for centuries in the Americas. It isn't a coincidence that white males in the US;

-have been the majority making laws since day one in the US and virtually 100% until the mid 20th century.
-own the most property
-are compensated most for their labor
-90% of Fortune 500 CEOS
-have never been considered property
-never been forbidden from voting or running for public office
-have never been forbidden to own property
-have never been forbidden to attend higher education
-have the most accumulated wealth

Us white males in the United States biggest attribute to our success is called "lucky sperm club".

fish

Us white males in the United States biggest attribute to our success is called "lucky sperm club".

Ah...now Bens torment is revealed! That he is only a poseur in the heirarchy of victims.......(Garcia)....establish the proper bona fides....check ....when his campaign photo make him look like the son of the 4th Earl of Kent.......Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

If your father had only had you with a black or hispanic woman you might have stood a reasonable chance of turning into a reasonable human being.

I knew that all your whining about authoritarianism was merely projection....it always is with you progressive "egg breakers".

Paul Emery

I'm just calling it for what it is Todd, Imperialism. You have no problem with that because we're good and despite genocide on the native peoples they're better off because of it. Tough love rithe? The conquest of those weaker than or=ourselves gave us free land and cheap labor the perfect formula for the golden era of Capitalism that many readers of this blog wish to return to.

"Guns in our hands and god on our side"

Bob Dylan

Paul Emery

sp "Tough love right?"

Ben Emery

Fish,

We are cutting ones nose off to spite ones face aren't we?

fish

I wouldn't let him bait you Todd.....the Emerys notion of sin starts and ends with "Perfidious Albion". Pauls weeping for the natives on this continent doesn't, and can't address the joyful slaughter and slavery perpetuated by tribe on tribe.

An Emery examination of history should really be re-titled:We're Self Loathing White Guys....Please Don't Hate Us!

Todd Juvinall

Yes PaulE, I am a manifest destiny guy but not an imperialist. Mexico got its ass kicked by Americans and the loss forced them to sign a treaty and give up lands they took from the natives. Now, why would you think that giving it back to them is a good idea? You still never answered that.

America is powerful because it has believed the individual is important. No king, no politburo, no white sheets. You are a conflicted man apparently. Your Greek Macedonian conquered the known world. Why did he do that PaulE/

BenE, you are a hoot. You claim "Garcia" now? You must be looking for some government affirmative action program for some free buckos. I met some people along the way of life, mostly women, who used their married Spanish name (even though they were GASP! White) to apply for jobs back in the days of guilt here in America. Real honest right? I bet you can justify all that because it is perpetrated against "white" people. You two Emery's are the symptom of disaster for a great and fair country.

fish

We are cutting ones nose off to spite ones face aren't we?

Not sure I'm taking your point here Ben. On another thread you claim, It is not about jealousy, envy, revenge, punishment, bitterness or any of the other reasons given by you guys but rather security against tyranny of the minority or minority rule governance. but come right back with more Class Warrior whining about "Lucky Sperm. Do you even know what your angry about Ben....as usual you're all over the map? Your daily swoon over the "masses" as if mob rule would be some vast improvement isn't convincing me at all!

PS: Did you ever ponder the question I asked regarding the new female GM chairperson? She makes much less than her predecessor....is that a good or bad thing?

Oh yeah...since you brought it up again...AUTHORITARIANISM.....any plans....any at all to back up the points on your list?

Paul Emery

Todd

Here are some details about the way indians were treated in California after the Gold Rush that should make you proud to be an 'merican

"In 1848, the United States acquired California from Mexico just in time for the Gold Rush of 1849. Now, the mountain tribes encountered European miners who saw Indian women as concubines and Indian men as slaves or even as shooting targets for sport. The newspapers of the time were filled with headlines about Indians being killed:

"Good Haul of Diggers" [a slang term for Indian slave laborers in the gold fields]

"Thirty-eight Bucks Killed"

"Forty Squaws and Children Taken"

"Indiscriminate Massacre of Indians — Women and Children Butchered"
This last headline told of 188 peaceful Indian men, women and children killed in Humboldt Bay. The story was just a little too sympathetic to the Indians, so the editor was run out of town.

From a high population of 300,000 before contact, Indians in California reached a low of 16,000 in 1900. According to Alvin M. Josephy in his book 500 Nations, the history of the California tribes "was as close to genocide as any tribal people had faced, or would face, on the North American continent."


http://www.pbs.org/indiancountry/history/calif.html

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, in the converse you are stating you are NOT proud to be an American. Sorry for you PaulE. No allegiance to this great country must be painful. So, which country on the planet do you prefer? Are you just using the fruits of America for your own ends since you have no positive allegiance?

Tell me PaulE, why do feel it necessary to carry such guilt and hatred for actions of others in the past? That is a treatable psychological problem. But, hey, if you want to hate, why not yourself. Your greedy, imperialistic ancestors came here and probably wiped out a few Indians themselves. Is that your problem? Did your ancestors commit genocide on the Indians? I know mine did not, so my conscious is clear.

PaulE, do you hold the Arab/Muslim slave procurers responsible for their slavery of people today? How about the black chieftains that sold their people into slavery to the Arabs? Any twinge of anger there PaulE?

Todd Juvinall

Here PaulE, read this article and tell me George Bush and America just don't give a shit about people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief

Paul Emery

Todd

I was just noting some details about you're beloved Manifest Destiny that you might have overlooked in your history lessons.

Todd Juvinall

Never overlooked anything PaulE. When we ended at the Pacific, Manifest Destiny was complete. Many people on all sides lost their lives in the quest. I see you still never answer others questions. I have learned through reading about psychology that when you do not answer you are agreeing. Thanks.

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