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08 October 2015


Gary Smith

Cap and Trade reminds me of the BS we were sold about our California Lottery years ago. The money will fix our schools, yeah right how has that worked out. Whatever millions were generated by the Lottery for schools an equal amount was subtracted from the schools general fund money. That money was diverted in the lawmakers pet projects and all we got was increased state spending.

George Rebane

GaryS 706pm - You nailed it.


It's funny but I think Steve inadvertently acknowledges the "three card monte" nature of Garys comment from a comment left a few days back at jeffys.

stevefrisch says:

October 3, 2015 at 5:30 pm

Thanks Mike. You have inspired me to write. Here is what I am going to write about. The world will little note nor long remember what Norm Sauer or Michael Mann say on the editorial page of The Union. What they say is irrelevant to the vast majority of residents of Nevada County.

Deniers gonna deny and ain’t nothing we can do about that.

But the world does note and our lives can be enriched by what we build and what we do. While some are still denying the existence of climate change California has taken bold action, we have priced carbon, that action has held up against all challenges including electoral and judicial, and the state is realizing a revenue stream of $2.5 billion this year and $5 billion per year by 2020 that can only be used to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. That is money that can and is being used to improve transportation networks, install energy efficiency measures, realize water efficiencies, build affordable housing, manage forests and divert waste.

While deniers deny pragmatic people and our decision-makers in Nevada County need to get to work realizing some of that revenue in our local communities to improve peoples lives and create jobs.

It really is that simple.


As I have felt from the very beginning, this is a play to tap the last big bore revenue stream available and then, much like congress does when it says that every single thing involves interstate commerce, they will say that "spending money on affordable housing makes it so people don't have to drive as far...so Climate Change.....and voila Steve gets to keep his Mexican housekeeper because she isn't forced to drive up from Reno and can now stay in a government subsidized apartment! (This last sentence fragment is me exhibiting a bit of the whimsy for which I am truly famous so you can hang up on your attorney Steve)

"Realize water efficiencies"....surely a laudable goal and I can't wait to hear that tortured logic that he uses to justify it. "manage forests"......? I thought carbon sequestration was a myth.....https://www.coal-is-dirty.com/carbon-capture-and-storage-a-myth....if this is indeed the case how do you justify Cap and Trade moneys for forest management.

I've accused Steve of being a "Straussian" in the past..... purveying the noble lie (climate change) so as to obtain funds to feed his progressive political wants.....affordable housing, subsidized healthcare, etc.

I see nothing in his statement above to change my opinion.

Todd Juvinall

fish | 09 October 2015 at 05:54 AM

You have to give the shysters like Frisch credit though. His ilk has found a way to tax the carbon atoms in our bodies and redistribute those dollars to the left's bank accounts. All on a hoax of AGW too. But since the libnuts have control of the place and the schools, they have brainwashed the little urchins and are growing a larger contingent of humanoid robots to do their bidding.

It used to be the left was all into trees being planted to sequester carbon but then there was no money it for them.

While the poor and unfortunate bend oer for these charlatans one can only hope real leaders emerge to throw off this liberal fallacy and leave the people alone.


During the AB23 campaign to limit the impact of AB32 until the California economy turned around, Steven Frisch was opposed to AB23 and supported full implementation of AB32 and other implementing legislation. One of his main points for supporting AB32 was the creation of green jobs. The legislature enacted The California Clean Energy Jobs Act in support of AB32.

I went looking for some results, did AB32 live up to Steven Frisch's promotion of green jobs? Not, according to an article in the Washington Post.

The California Clean Energy Jobs Act (Proposition 39) raised corporate taxes to pay for energy efficiency initiatives and green energy projects—particularly at state schools. Backers estimated that the plan would generate more than $550 million annually and create 11,000 “green” jobs.

But this month, the Associated Press reported that “money is trickling in at a slower-than-anticipated rate, and more than half of the $297 million given to schools so far has gone to consultants and energy auditors. The board created to oversee the project and submit annual progress reports to the Legislature has never met.” So far, the program has created only 1,700 jobs.

Note that most of the money went to energy auditors, one of the Sierra Business Council's services areas:

Prop 39 Planning and Services

o o o

In the Prop 39 Planning and Services program SBC provides LEA customers energy audits and assistance in completing all recommended steps by the California Energy Commission (CEC) to implement Prop 39 projects.
Services include:
- Gather energy usage information and complete benchmarking requirement
- Facilitate ASHRAE Level II Audit (as necessary)
- Deliver energy savings report
- Assist with project prioritization
- Assist with project identification and costing for Mechanical Systems and Building Envelope
- Complete the Energy Expenditure Plan
- Compile required documents for CEC
- Serve as Prop 39 lead for questions, forms, and general administration

According to the data the majority to the green jobs were sucked up by organizations like the Sierra Business Council, producing few real jobs.

George Rebane

RussS 939am - I believe you meant to say Prop 23 instead of assembly bill AB23. Prop 23 was presented as a ballot item to California voters in 2010.


George, yes I was referring to Prop 23.

Jason Chr

The conversation entertains. Do please carry on.

I like,enjoy, and welcome to these our lands Steve, and those with whom he walks.

Ben Emery

First off, Steve Frisch is not a progressive. He is a liberal or New/ Third Way Democrat. Second, Cap and Trade is another tool for speculation and bankers while putting a regressive tax into place. C&T is a horrible idea. We need a carbon tax at every level of production that is redistributed to the citizen, much like Alaska does with the energy industry, Tax and Dividend.

Cap-and-Trade Secrets

Hansen to Obama: Support a Carbon Tax

Todd Juvinall

And that tax should be say, 80% to you Ben. I want my money back.

Todd Juvinall

Oh and everyone should go comment on the latest anti-American diatribe by Michael Mann and our local renter Heidi Hall. The Union of course.



Did that, earlier this morning.

George Rebane

BenE 820am - Would love to see your analysis of SteveF's ideology and why you classify him as you do. He has left quite a record of his belief system on RR over a considerable number of years. His biographer will have to search no further ;-)


The GOOD NEWS,,(so far), No 'carbon tax', on my charcoal receipts.


Solar Versus Nuclear – Costs. Costs To Build A 1 Gigawatt Producing Power

1 square yard of ground can get as much energy from the sun
(when shining) to generate 1 horsepower.
You cannot increase that amount, it’s a fact / l aw of physics.

1 square yard of 45% efficiency solar panel (.45 horsepower
of energy) costs 100,000.

You do the math. Solar is a pipe dream.
100% efficiency is a crazy pipe dream much like cold fusion.
To generate the power of 1 nuclear power plant (1 gigawatt)
you only need 1 square mile of solar panels running at 100% conversion of solar
energy to power, but of course the nuclear power plant cost less and can run

(FYI, there are 3,097,000 square yards in a mile. 1 mile at a cost of $100,000 per 45%
efficient square yard would be
$309,700,000,000 per mile. Given
the 45% efficiency, assuming desert sun to equal 16 hours or 2/3 of a day to
match a nuclear power plant you would need {1/.45/.667) 3.331 miles of
expensive solar panels to generate as much as a typical nuclear power plant can
in a day, that’s more than 1 trillion dollars.
Estimates are that a nuclear power plant cost about 2-3
billion to construct in the past and estimates are 5 to 10 billion now. Of course there are back end costs)

George Rebane

re Walt's 1247pm - Here's some data to drive a stake in the ground when doing numbers.

Ben Emery

George, 10 October 2015 at 09:24 AM

Progressive policies and progressives want to reform systems to be balanced where liberal policies and liberals advocate adding onto bad system without changing the underlying causes. As Steve claims with me often is his view is pragmatic and rational and mine is extreme(summarized opinion of course). I counter it with pragmatism or incrementalism is rhetoric of someone who is not being discriminated against or is doing well under the current system. SBC is basically a lobby group in my opinion and Steve is very comfortable with the power system while trying to make small changes around the fringes. I applaud him and SBC being that bridge for government and private sector for at least getting small good steps but also believe his mentality is one of the biggest obstacles of actually getting real reform and change.

As what we are seeing with the Bernie Sanders campaign those of us who are progressives are truly disgusted with the status quo of the Democratic Party while those like Steve who endorsed Hillary Clinton in May or June of this year think the status quo is the avenue of creating small changes here and there. The political revolution is on.

Both Clinton's, Obama, and all the leadership of the Democratic Party would fall into the Third Way(corporate) Democrats. https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Third_Way_organization

George Rebane

BenE 131pm - That's a much appreciated dissertation, thank you. I am interested in how SteveF describes himself in that spectrum.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Ben Emery | 10 October 2015 at 01:31 PM

Wow, Ben, you really should not come here to do this. But since you have, you do realize that I think you are incapable of understanding my political philosophy and change model because you are captured by immature idealism don't you? I am actually more of "progressive" than you are Ben because I know how to get things done while you are Quixotically tilting at windmills.


Spot on Steve.

rl crabb

In the words of my mentor, Dan O'Neill, "I never saw a windmill that wasn't looking for a fight."

Steven Frisch

Posted by: rl crabb | 11 October 2015 at 07:50 AM

Ha! I love that modernization of Quixote.


"Wow, Ben, you really should not come here to do this. But since you have, you do realize that I think you are incapable of understanding my political philosophy and change model because you are captured by immature idealism don't you?" -Frisch


Similarly, I expect Frisch is incapable of understanding my (and that of Rebane) natural philosophy because he has yet to show any talent in science besides quoting an authority he prefers to believe due to their political slant, and running with their ex cathedra pronouncements.

PS O'Neill is absolutely correct regarding windmills.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Gregory | 11 October 2015 at 08:02 AM

Greg apparently we share something else in common, we both have Anthony Burgess' autograph. Mine is in the front cover of a Kell edition of "One Hand Clapping."

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