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10 October 2015

Comments

Walt

Yes,, Progressives hate the 1ST Amendment as much as the 2ND.
There is a good reason Mr. "Hockey stick" picked this corner of the Boondocks.
It has "Berkeley of the foothills". And just what is the belief of BOTH Berkeleys?
" You can say anything you like, but just as long as "we"( Radical Progressives) agree with what you say".

Where is Jeff Akerman when we need him? The local rag in now censoring dissenting opinion?

George R.!!! Do you have any numbers of how many LIB letters that have been "round filed"?
It damned better be an equal number to "right" writers, if not more.( LIBS do write some crazyass shit)

Russ

George,

I created a link to this post in the comments section on Ms Hill's Other Voices in The Union. You may end up with some anonymous nasty posts here, just wanted to give you a heads up to the possible source.

George Rebane

Walt 1238pm - There is an ongoing survey of the political balance of Union columns and letters. I'll post the results when completed.

Russ 101pm - Thanks Russ; looking forward to it.

Gregory

Those wishing to "calibrate" Dr. Mann may wish to read Dr.Curry's blog post on Mark Steyn's response to Mann's seven figure libel complaint:"A Disgrace to the Profession: The World’s Scientists – in their own words – on Michael E Mann, his Hockey Stick and their Damage to Science – Volume One"

http://judithcurry.com/2015/08/13/mark-steyns-new-book-on-michael-mann/

Michael R. Kesti

The political balance of columns and letters printed by The Union may be of interest to some parties but I find it to be of very little import. The Union has no obligation to provide such a balance and anybody who doesn't get what they want from them has other options. I will even go so far as to say that it could be good for our community if The Union were to favor one side as it might foster competition from another publication.

Walt

The ECO "true believers" have been more silent than crickets on the ass woop'n the Sierra Club got on Capital Hill. Hummmm.... I wonder why? How many times can one highly paid idiot repeat the same line over and over?

“[w]e concur with 97 percent of the scientists that believe the anthropogenic impact of mankind with regards to global warming are true.”

That was the answer to just about every question put to Mr.Mair.

Even (missing in action) "jon" has been silent. (even before he went MIA)
Not a peep from the all knowing Steve of SBC! Yes,, his best bud got his ass handed to him by Ted Cruz.

George Rebane

MichaelK 231pm - Apparently the Union's management is interested in their own political balance - perceived and actual - since that is one of their stated operating principles. Agree with you on the potential positive impact of their taking a stand one way or another. But their readership is already low enough that a dilution with a competitor of opposite political hue might be deadly.

George Rebane

Censorship - the Left has some pretty silly definitions of 'censorhip', but people like Hall, Mann, Warren leave no doubt about what they want silenced and censored. I am interested in how pervasive censorship (leftwing, but even rightwing if you can find it) is becoming in our media and on the internet. Would appreciate any reader discovered links to such examples encountered in their surfing the media and the WWW.

Todd Juvinall

Hall is unfit to govern people with her desire to censor debate. My goodness how do these people think they can win election with that policy.

Gary Smith

Dr. Rebane:
The Union refused to print one of my letters in Feb. this year also. I have not submitted another since. It is a tough call for me as they are a private business and can do as they please. If I don't like it I can quit my subscription and ignore them. But like you say, that is not the image they present. Just like this blog is under your control and you can ban anyone you want. Jeff Pelline can ban who he wants (me also) as that is his blog. I guess I could start the Sierra Smith report if I choose. I have to admit that my opinion of Ms. Hall dropped after reading her opinion piece today. Lucky for her I live in District #3 because she lost my vote.

Gregory

Just in case anyone has missed the attempt by climate scientists to use RICO against their opposition; here's a couple of interesting links:

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2015/10/07/suppressing-free-speech-n2061331/page/full
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/09/22/government-funded-scientist-wants-to-use-rico-laws-to-investigate-climate-change-skeptics/

It takes both a certain quality and quantity of cheek to both profiteer from government grants (seven figures for part time "work" on top of an over $300k salary from George Mason U?) while calling on the Federal government to prosecute climate heretics. This will be getting worse and worse, more and more shrill, during the run up to Paris and to the Nov '16 elections.

Bonnie McGuire

It's pathetic. When there's only one opinion allowed stupidity rules. Wisdom requires many opinions to become educated in order to make wise choices. Dictators destroy this valuable means for progress. The First Amendment is so important to those who want to express their viewpoint, but wish to silence those who disagree. To show you how stupid they are....when their stupidity rules they will no longer be able to express themselves either, and if they do they'll be hauled off to a prison camp, or mental hospital to have their thinking readjusted. You don't think so? We watched it happen last century in Russia, China and Germany. The numbers of atrocities committed against those who may have disagreed with those in power are hundreds of millions. Russia and China were regarded as the greatest mass murderers last century. America's Founders were very intelligent and aware regarding human nature tendencies while deciding on our Constitution and Bill of Human Rights to protect us from terrible rulers like those we witnessed last century. Why do our rulers send our soldiers all over the world to be killed fighting for freedom, while those who send them are destroying the source of our freedom here?

Gregory

Just to be clear, I remain a self-described liberal and, having cast a ballot in every federal election since April 1972, have never voted in a GOP primary since I ain't ever been a Republican. Liberal used to mean something akin to believing in Liberty but the current crop of left-liberals do not.

Readers of The Union should also pay attention to today's Other Voices from an NUHS teacher extolling the virtues of Common Core mathematics, pleading for patience to let the magic work. Folks with a memory might remember the whole math debacle twenty years ago and the experience with NCTM Math then was that it never got better. Call it Phil Daro Math, since it was Mr. Daro, BA English from UC Berkeley who directed both the writing of the 1992 Mathematics Framework for California Public Schools, and was hired by that Washington DC 501c3, Achieve, Inc. to be the Chairman of the Common Core math standards effort. Daro remains a co-chair of CCSS-Mathematics and a lead author, despite having no degrees in mathematics.

Professional educators keep repeating the same mistakes.

Walt

Gregory.. That took some guts to say your " liberal". I can't say that's an accurate description by what you have been posting over time. It's time to re-think your "tag", as I did. I was in the GOP camp until I saw them to be no better than the Left.
Thank GOD the Tea Party came to be. I now fly the "Conservative" colors.
The GOP has turned into LIB LITE.

Maybe sticking to the good ol' JFK Democrat would be a better fit for ya'.
(maybe Libertarian?)
No Sir.. a LIBERAL you are not.

George Rebane

re Gregory 434pm - For others who missed the RICO reference in my commentary, it contains another link expanding how the Left attempts to use every underhanded device imaginable to silence from the public forum ideas that they cannot contend on their merits. My experience is that it has been ONLY the Left that has sought and continues to seek such censorship under the government gun. If the Right has been equally guilty, would like to see the citations. But I think such queries are best handled by their crickets.

Walt 527pm - I believe Gregory meant liberal in the classic sense - e.g. Basitat - before the socialists co-opted the label.

Walt

Agreed George, The Commie Left have highjacked more the one "title". They shamed the word "Democrat", moved on to "Liberal", when that got too bastardized, they kicked that name into the ditch, and now hide behind "Progressive". It's just a nicer way of saying Communist SOB. They have no love for the Bill of Rights.

The GOP is finding out what happens when they ignore those who put them in office.
That's why those running for President who call themselves "Republicans" are political roadkill.

Who is stirring the pot in the House Speaker deal? The Tea Party.
You won't see it reported that way, but the Tea party is FAR from dead.
Those that have been elected by the TP are making a difference, and if Ted Cruz becomes Speaker,,, well,,, He did get elected by the Tea Party people in his district, so that means the Tea Party is not as irrelevant as the LIBS like to claim.

Jon

Walt, did you just say that Ted Cruz may become Speaker, when he's running for President, as a sitting Senator?

Best of luck! :)

Todd Juvinall

Newt has my vote. And I just learned this week the Speaker does not have to be a elected person!

Walt

Well well... Look what the cat dragged in.. It would do you well to pay attention to the news "jonnie".

Steven Frisch

First, nowhere in The Union column did either Ms. Hall or Mr. Mann call for banning or censoring opinions that do not support a skeptical view of anthropogenic climate change; they called for editors to represent the reality of how the actual scientific community views climate change.

But are we seriously looking for examples of proposed censorship by conservatives?

“My experience is that it has been ONLY the Left that has sought and continues to seek such censorship under the government gun. If the Right has been equally guilty, would like to see the citations. But I think such queries are best handled by their crickets.”—George Rebane

Well, where do we start? How about with:

1. Florida Governor Rick Scott’s prohibition on the use of the words “climate change” by state agencies.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article12983720.html

2. The conservative Alliance Defending Freedom getting a school board in Arizona to remove pages from an honors high school biology textbook that ADF contends don’t show “an affirmative preference to childbirth and adoption as options to abortion” in describing various forms of contraception.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/brahm-resnik/2014/10/29/12news-gilbert-school-board-remove-page-biology-book-abortion/18126635/

3. Or One Million Moms, a front group for the American Family Association, working to get Pulitzer and Nobel prize winning author Toni Morrison’ s The Bluest Eye banned from schools.

http://www.dailycamera.com/broomfield-news/ci_23688502/place-bluest-eye-legacy-high-classrooms-subject-debate


4. How about the Family Research Council seeking to rescind student’s library privacy rights? Here is a direct quote from Tony Perkins,

“In the library, what kids are really checking out is a new ideology. Hello, I'm Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C. School libraries are one place where liberalism has a long shelf life. For years, the American Library Association's been funneling inappropriate material to kids. And stopping them just got a whole lot harder. The Left wing's favorite billionaire, George Soros, is giving the ALA a half-million dollars a year to develop a "privacy curriculum" that teaches kids how to "bust through censor walls," "encrypt their communication," and "override filters." Even worse, librarians are told "to inform students that their book circulation data will never be shared with anyone, including their parents." Groups like Parents Against Bad Books in Schools are fighting back, but they need your help. "If enough parents become aware of how many objectionable books there are in [circulation] and work together in constantly challenging them, things can improve considerably," said a spokesman. Otherwise, what libraries will be lending isn't books--but a helping hand to the Left.”

5. Or conservative New York State Senator Andrew Lanza seeking to censor art at the Brooklyn Museum by first participating in a press campaign along with Catholic League President Bill Donohue to pressure the museum to remove it’s exhibit titled “Hide/Seek” then introducing legislation to defund the museum?

http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/senator-lanza-bashes-brooklyn-museum-intolerant-hateful-exhibit-calls-resignation-muse

I could go on…and on…and on but I am not sure what the point would be.

Steven Frisch

Then again there is this list of banned or frequently challenged books from the American Library Association:

1. The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald
2. The Catcher in the Rye, by J.D. Salinger
3. The Grapes of Wrath, by John Steinbeck
4. To Kill a Mockingbird, by Harper Lee
5. The Color Purple, by Alice Walker
6. Ulysses, by James Joyce
7. Beloved, by Toni Morrison
8. The Lord of the Flies, by William Golding
9. 1984, by George Orwell

11. Lolita, by Vladmir Nabokov
12. Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck

15. Catch-22, by Joseph Heller
16. Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
17. Animal Farm, by George Orwell
18. The Sun Also Rises, by Ernest Hemingway
19. As I Lay Dying, by William Faulkner
20. A Farewell to Arms, by Ernest Hemingway

23. Their Eyes Were Watching God, by Zora Neale Hurston
24. Invisible Man, by Ralph Ellison
25. Song of Solomon, by Toni Morrison
26. Gone with the Wind, by Margaret Mitchell
27. Native Son, by Richard Wright
28. One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, by Ken Kesey
29. Slaughterhouse-Five, by Kurt Vonnegut
30. For Whom the Bell Tolls, by Ernest Hemingway

33. The Call of the Wild, by Jack London

36. Go Tell it on the Mountain, by James Baldwin

38. All the King's Men, by Robert Penn Warren

40. The Lord of the Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien

45. The Jungle, by Upton Sinclair

48. Lady Chatterley's Lover, by D.H. Lawrence
49. A Clockwork Orange, by Anthony Burgess
50. The Awakening, by Kate Chopin

53. In Cold Blood, by Truman Capote

55. The Satanic Verses, by Salman Rushdie

57. Sophie's Choice, by William Styron

64. Sons and Lovers, by D.H. Lawrence

66. Cat's Cradle, by Kurt Vonnegut
67. A Separate Peace, by John Knowles

73. Naked Lunch, by William S. Burroughs
74. Brideshead Revisited, by Evelyn Waugh
75. Women in Love, by D.H. Lawrence

80. The Naked and the Dead, by Norman Mailer

84. Tropic of Cancer, by Henry Miller

88. An American Tragedy, by Theodore Dreiser

97. Rabbit, Run, by John Updike

I am amazed that there are only 3 that I have not read :)

Gregory

Walt, just because democratic socialists started using Liberal because they were afraid to sell themselves as socialists doesn't mean they own the term. Classic liberal *is* libertarian, and vice versa. I remain pro choice on everything.

I salute Bernie S. for proudly wearing the proper label.

Jon

Walt, I just wished you well with Ted Cruz. Now the tough part- finding 218 lunatics in the House who would vote for him as Speaker :) LOL!
Best of luck rounding up the votes for Cruz!

Todd Juvinall

Honestly is everyone as sick of the copy/paste of Frisch? I don't read his tripe anymore. Makes no sense to rational people.

Jon

I take it you god fearing Americans aren't watching the massive US vs. Mexico soccer game on right now... Univision has great coverage.
Tied 1-1. Go USA!

fish

Posted by: Jon | 10 October 2015 at 07:25 PM

I take it you god fearing Americans aren't watching the massive US vs. Mexico soccer game on right now... Univision has great coverage. Tied 1-1. Go USA!

I only have room in my heart for one boring sport......Mets 2 - Dodgers1 going into the 5th.


Go Mets!

Bill  Tozer

Steve F @ 6:43.
You are not kidding, sadly. #'s 1, 2, 4, 8, 12, 17, 28, 33, & 45 were required reading when I was a pupil. I read In Cold Blood and some more just for kicks. Oh, Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer was a lot better than The Last of the Mohicans and Moby's Dick, also required reading in 6th or 7th grade. Catcher in the Rye banned or contested? Well, they banned Confessions of a Window Washer and also Do It!! by Jerry Rubuen at the local library, but Lord of the Flies and Animal Farm had all of us kids buzzing in the hallways excited about them. We loved the drunk pigs in Animal Farm. Poor horseys.
I once posted a picture here of Forest Gump with the caption "Then one day for no particular reason, everybody became offended". How appropriate..

Gregory

I have a copy of A Clockwork Orange autographed by Anthony Burgess hisself. Considering how much I hated asking for autographs and how.much he hated the book and giving autographs, I had to ask. Sure got a dirty look with the stone cold silence... time and place was the lecture hall at Harvey Mudd circa 1974.

Walt

LOL Frish,
"We believe that Dr. Michael Mann’s opinion piece in The Union on Sept. 22 should have been the end of the opinion wars in our local news on the internationally debated topic about whether or not climate change exists."

key words "should have been the end of the opinion wars in our local news"
In other words,, " We say so, so shut up. The debate is over."

Still not a word from you on the spanking your buddy got the runs the Sierra Club, on Capital Hill. He come down with tourettes?
The AGW BS sure has been debunked in SO many ways. But keep spouting off with doctored data.

Russ

Stephen@06:36PM

You have proven yourself to be a "dog whistle" expert, I am surprised that you did not see the dog whistle in this statement.

". . . they called for editors to represent the reality of how the actual scientific community views climate change."

For the left there is only one reality, humans cause global warming. The actual scientific community does not support AGW. They agree that the earth is warming, but refuse to blame humans for the past increase, which has paused for the last 18 years. Not the reality that Hill and Mann were calling for.

Bill  Tozer

Gregory, A Clockwork Orange rocked my world. Exposed the new "lib" feel good treatment of one messed up London holligan. He sure kicked the homeless in their heads with style and on cue. And The Last Tango in Paris had everybody running out to buy butter.
Good news is after all these years of progressives telling us to dump butter cause it's bad and switch to Chaffen, now they are saying get back on butter cause margarine will kill ya. Oh, give me and eggs a break! Now we are told Wednesday that whole milk is king and forget 1 and 2% milk. What goes around comes around.

Guess the above had more to do with the Liberal Wasteland than Climate Change. Skim milk is now censored ( to faintly look like I am on topic.
Visual aid of the liberal melon abyss from whence they think up stuff only they feel is brilliant.

https://www.facebook.com/angryamericanpatriots/photos/pb.492037610911691.-2207520000.1444532503./831512816964167/?type=3&theater

Don Bessee

The 'jon' interestingly differentiates himself from God fearing Americans once again. How well did that merry jane pot store work out for you guys? The absence of rebuttal is confirmation of what it is. ROFLOL

Bill  Tozer

Well, you could see this coming. Battle of the entitled is getting ugly where the rubber meets the road. The liberals aren't bad people, they just have this sense of entitlement and a bit too much nasty arrogance and lack of manners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/science/in-california-electric-cars-outpace-plugs-and-sparks-fly.html?_r=0

fish

HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahaha.......hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.......deep cleansing breath......Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!


"We can see this in the opening speeches, viewable online and described by Laframboise as 'among the most terrifying 90 minutes I've ever witnessed'. If you've the stomach to sit through the faux-judicious burblings, you'll see what she means: here are leading, influential, international lawyers proposing to reject the scientific method, bypass democracy and permanently shut down the climate debate by declaring 'global warming' illegal under international law.

We can see this in the opening speeches, viewable online and described by Laframboise as 'among the most terrifying 90 minutes I've ever witnessed'. If you've the stomach to sit through the faux-judicious burblings, you'll see what she means: here are leading, influential, international lawyers proposing to reject the scientific method, bypass democracy and permanently shut down the climate debate by declaring 'global warming' illegal under international law."


But they do these things out of love.......


http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/a-supreme-court-justice-and-the-scary-plan-to-outlaw-climate-change/


Jon

Hey Don, you're exactly right- I don't fear god. Hey Donnie, who is "you guys"?

Unfortunately we lost to Mexico tonight...great game, bad ending for the USA.

Bill  Tozer

American Futball tomorrow. The liberal mind and censorship. Gov Brown just banned concealed weapons from campuses. Good grief. He just guareented more sitting ducks and created another law a murderer will break. We all know that the first few seconds are the most critical to stop a terrorist attack by the wack jobs, aka, what happened on a train in France. Seconds matter to stop a murderous rampage, so Jerry just took those seconds away. Censor the guns, nothing to see here, right?

It gay marriage is legal in all 50 states, then my Concealed Carry should be legal in all 50 states. No one ever raped a 38, but some have met disapproval for doing 38 in a 45 zone.

Don Bessee

CCC from the 'jon' again.

George Rebane

StevenF 636pm - How are any of your citations examples of 'censorship' with respect to the First Amendment? If the two quoted paragraphs from the Union are not a clear call for such journalistic censorship to you, then your cynicism is beyond measure. To that I add the WSJ article whose citations are also a matter of public record. I don't think there is much people like you have to discuss with people like me.

And all the books you cite are freely available from all libraries; how do you then ascribe them to be banned by the Right?

Todd Juvinall

Stossel is doing a hour on censorship. I saw a few minutes. It runs again tomorrow I think. He was talking about Mann, Frisch and the rest of the fascists.

Americans watch American football and baseball. Soccer is for pus****.

Jon

Wow, bad news for the neanderthal crowd in CA in the last few days with Governor Brown's mighty pen doing its thing. I do admit that CA is a right wing nightmare these days.

The incessant whining from the right to continue, ad nauseam.

Steven Frisch

What Hall and Mann said was that the facts should end the debate not that censorship should end the debate. There is a big difference. You are dissembling and creating a faux issue to have a star dog to attack. It is really an act of desperation on your part gentlemen.

Todd Juvinall

Read it again. You comprehensive levels are off by 12 grades. And of course we all know why you support this.

MikeL

Steve r u dumb? A number of true believing so called scientists in the CAGW bull S sent a letter to president O, AG Lynch and OSTP Holdren asking that those non believers who get all mouthy and question the CAGW nonsense be procecuted using RICO statutes. Hello earth to Steve....are you there?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: MikeL | 11 October 2015 at 06:55 AM

The fact remains that is not what either Ms. Hall or Mr. Mann did in their editorial. They called for reasonable people to recognize that the overwhelming majority of scientists working in the field acknowledge that AGW is occurring and that it is an issue we must deal with. Russ Steele's denial notwithstanding this are the facts. Every major scientific institution and association in the country agrees. Almost every highly regarded climate scientist agrees and people can see the evidence with their own eyes.

I am a little surprised however that Michael Mann would engage our local deniers quite so directly in a local paper. In reality it just gives some credence to the views of those who would deny the sunrise coming at 5 am saying I'll believe it when I see it.

Todd Juvinall

No deniers here on "climate change". Happens minute by minute. There are however the "true believer fascists" like Steve Frisch carrying the water for the shyster Mann and now his lackey Hall.

Jon

Steve, how was your sunrise this morning over in Truckee?- I imaging breathtaking...

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 07:15 AM

You need to actually read the book The True Believer by Eric Hoffer Todd. But then you don;t really read much do you?

Offer's main contention is that you could look at almost any mass movement, be it communism, fascism, nationalism, or religious revivalism and one would find the same type of person. They are motivated by fear, they are prone to irrational arguments, they are conspiracy theorists who blame others for their own condition, they are the discontented, they believe that 'others' have created their condition, they blame society for their woes, and at their cores they are weak people. The allow their identities to be subsumed by the whole, the movement, they identify with a set of issues that elevates their beliefs collectively where they can't individually, and in doing so the are no longer 'individualists' but became cogs in the movement. They believe their mass movement will free them from their alienation from society, and in that belief, give the power over life and death to totalitarian leaders.

This more accurately describes the obstructionist, Tea Party, Agenda 21 theorist, Jade Helm fearing, State of Jefferson blabbering, blood soaked 2nd amendment clinging, evolution denying, anti-government, Constitutionalist, 'conservatarian', laissez-faire fantasy land promoting culture warriors on the right than almost any group in American history.

Steven Frisch

The similarity between talking with Todd and the "I know you are but what am I?" scene in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure is stunning.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Jon | 11 October 2015 at 07:42 AM

I was stunned this morning when the sun rose Jon because in my heart I think every day is another step in 'the last great century of man' instead of the beginning of the road to the next great century of man.

( There are some lessor minds here who do not recognize sarcasm so for the record, that is sarcasm.)

Jon

Come on, I know you were imagining what the sunrise in Truckee will be like on the first official day of Jefferson...:)

Russ

Steven@07:05AM

Before you intellectually embarrass yourself more than you have already with your claims of support for Michael E. Mann's Hickey Stick you should read Mark Steyn's book. See what his fellow scientist are saying about the construction of the Hockey Stick graphic. Not one of his fellow scientist filed an amicus curiae brief in support of Mann's Law Suit against Mark Steyn for calling the hockey stick a fraud. Yet, many scientist and national media publications filed amicus curiae in support of Steyn. Why is that the case? Simple, the scientific community and media knows that the hockey stick graphic is a fraud.

Here is a link to "A Disgrace to the Profession"

http://www.amazon.com/%2522A-Disgrace-Profession%2522-Steyn-editor/dp/0986398330/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1444574678&sr=1-1&keywords=mark+steyn

Todd Juvinall

No Steve risch, I have followed your ilk for over twenty years and have watched the progression to fascist ideology and policies. You and your ilk want to shut people up so you can rip them off (taxes and fees redistributed). The poor and middle class are so squeezed by you and the other "true believer fascists" they can hardly make it day to day. You could care less about them. So you go read all the books you want but the bottom line is the results. You have figured out how to male money off this scheme and the poor and middle class get the bill.

Jon

Watching the sunrise in Truckee is probably a far more pleasurable pursuit than reading a book by Rush Limbaugh's substitute host.
I would imagine..

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Russ | 11 October 2015 at 08:03 AM

Russ with all due respect to your support for the bombastic Mr. Steyn, this is not an issue of supporting or opposing the 'hockey stick' graph, it is a question of whether or not Mr. Mann and Ms. Hall called for censorship in their editorial. The case I made was that they did not, and that George's characterization is not only inaccurate, it was an intentional straw dog designed to divert people from the real issue; the overwhelming evidence of AGW and the widespread support the theory has in the scientific community.

By the way I listen to Mark Steyn on the radio occasionally and I can think of nothing more distasteful than actually reading his book. The man is a lightweight and an idiot.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 08:06 AM

"I know you are but what am I?"

Jon

"I have followed YOUR ILK for over twenty years..."

Now there's a real Uniter, not a divider.:) Perfect line to run for Supervisor for the Nevada City area, what do you think Steve?

MikeL

Micheal Mann was shown to have used incorrect mathiey skills and cherry picked tree-momiters to arrive at his discredited famous hokey stick graph. I can not for the life of me understand how anyone can trust anything this quack has to say....oh wait that's right he is spouts the dogma that the CAGW pious want hear.
The simple fact is that the real world data, that which has not been force feed into a computer AlGore-rythim, DOES NOT support what the high priests say.

Todd Juvinall

The Nevada City area voters love me. It will be fun.

I see Steve Frisch is acting like an 11 year old girl again.8:15 AM

Jon

Heidi Hall is going to be a fantastic addition to the Sups.

Todd Juvinall

what is a sups? Soup kitchen helper maybe?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 08:37 AM

Todd, what I am pointing out is that dialogue with you is like talking with an 11 year old girl, or a 65 year old man-boy. I am amazed that a 65 year old man is still telling shit jokes, making fun of people about their weight, and bragging about the size of their penis over on their own blog, and that it is countenanced by George here on occasion. It speaks for itself about who and what you really are; an insecure curmudgeon.

I really hope you run for Supervisor. We can use the 'way-back' web to illustrate to the voters what a lightweight immature idiot they had as a County Supervisor.

Steven Frisch

Just one classic Todd quote: "He does doesn't he? Well, not to brag but I am better looking and have a very nice life. It does not hurt to walk and take a dump. I weigh three hundred pouns less and I can still see my willie when peeing. Maybe that is why he is jealous? LOL!!"

Gregory

Dr. Mann, professor of meteorology (indeed, a meteoric rise at odds with his slow progression through BS to doctorate) with a PhD in Meteorology has chosen to ignore his own American Meteorological Society (he's now a Fellow) polled his peers a year or so ago and only half (52% to be precise) thought half or more of the last century's warming was anthropogeenic, from all actions. CO2, deforestation, black carbon (soot), urban heat island, aerosols, etc

Expect if they'd been asked if they believed Mann's hockey stick the level of support would have been quite small as Mann is not wearing well in the literature.

Regarding Steyn's book, the genius is that he didn't write it, Mann's scientific peers (and, I'd argue, his betters) did. Here's an example:

Why I Think That Michael Mann, Phil Jones and Stefan Rahmstorf2 Should be Barred from the IPCC Process. Short answer: because the scientific assessments in which they may take part are not credible anymore. These words do not mean that I think anthropogenic climate change is a hoax. On the contrary, it is a question which we have to be very well aware of. But I am also aware that editors, reviewers and authors of alternative studies, analysis, interpretations, even based on the same data we have at our disposal, have been bullied and subtly blackmailed.
-Dr. Eduardo Zorito

Dr. Judith Curry has made it clear she thinks Steyn is a formidable opponent and that it won't go well for Mann. For his part Steyn has come out swinging rather than hiding in a corner as a target of a multimillion dollar libel suit might be expected, and the title of his "in their own words" anthology intimates there will be a second volume.

In the meantime, Mann seems to be dragging his feet in his pursuit of justice, and we can only wonder why.

Gregory

Mann and Company aren't calling for the government to shut people up (that's a different group, the RICO20 persecutions), they're calling for newspapers and readers to ignore voices to the contrary. I'd argue the spirit is the same.

Steven Frisch

"My experience is that it has been ONLY the Left that has sought and continues to seek such censorship under the government gun. If the Right has been equally guilty, would like to see the citations. But I think such queries are best handled by their crickets."

Re: Posted by: George Rebane | 10 October 2015 at 09:45 PM

George you asked for examples of attempts by the right to restrict free speech and that it was only the left that did so. I provided numerous examples, and could provide hundreds more if we had the time and inclination.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 11 October 2015 at 08:40 AM

Heidi Hall is going to be a fantastic addition to the Sups.

Indeed. To quote das feist man...."you are petty because the stakes are so small".

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Gregory | 11 October 2015 at 09:03 AM

Well you might argue that 'the spirit is the same' but it is not. Seeking a restriction on free speech and stating that the opposition should be ignored are two very different things. Everyone has a free speech right to claim the opposition should be ignored; you guys do it here all day long.

George;s case was that Mann and Hall called for censorship, they did not such thing, they said the opposition was irrational and should be ignored.

Jon

fish, very small stakes indeed. But incredibly, your colleagues here are freaking out at the thought of Ms. Hall representing part of western Nevada County. Let them know, there's a big world out there!

Jon

Steve, can you imagine if Todd runs...the embarrassing and vile material is endless!

fish

Posted by: Steven Frisch | 11 October 2015 at 08:46 AM

Just one classic Todd quote: "He does doesn't he? Well, not to brag but I am better looking and have a very nice life. It does not hurt to walk and take a dump. I weigh three hundred pouns less and I can still see my willie when peeing. Maybe that is why he is jealous? LOL!!"

Would have been better in context but for points non-subjective is where are the inaccuracies in Todds statement?


1) Well, not to brag but I am better looking and have a very nice life.

First part self evident.....hey "No Homo". Second part subjective.

2) It does not hurt to walk and take a dump.

Speculation on both points but reasonable speculation in my opinion.

3) I weigh three hundred pouns less and I can still see my willie when peeing.

See item two.

4) Maybe that is why he is jealous? LOL!!"

Maybe!

Thanks for posting this "Classic Todd Quote" Steve!

fish

Posted by: Jon | 11 October 2015 at 09:19 AM

Nearly as funny as you dancing in a circle clapping while singing "Heidi, Heidi..........".

Jon

I might do that on election night. She's a great person.

Joe Koyote

Quiz: What is the most banned book in American History? Lady Chatterley's Lover, Huckleberry Finn, Lolita, or Common Sense?

On the topic at hand-- What I fail to understand is why the hardcore resistance to measures that will reduce the possibility of disaster. I would think that reasonable people would rather be safe than sorry. It is like your house is on fire and the attitude is "it's not really a fire, just smoke, so let's wait and see if the house burns down before we call the fire department." The law of the land and our judicial system of adjudication is based on the concept of "beyond a REASONABLE doubt." Is it unreasonable to think that the arguments of thousands of scientists worldwide are somehow wrong when compared to fossil fuel industry promoted and funded "science"? Exxon began it's anti-climate change propaganda as early as 1984 (an odd coincidence), as that is when their engineers told them there could be a problem with carbon emissions. All one has to do is (once again) follow the money. Who has the most/least to gain, the thousands of scientists who maybe make a couple of hundred grand if they are lucky, or the fossil fuel industry that makes billions a year for shareholders. Given the corporate mandate that growth and profit must always increase, is it unreasonable to assume that these people (corporations are now people) will do/say anything to meet that mandate and fatten their wallets at the public's expense?

Gregory

From Merriam-Webster via wikipedia:

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.

Since Mann/Hall are calling for media outlets to suppress inconvenient speech, they are calling for censorship according to this authoritative definition. Frisch is wrong yet a'gin.

Joe Koyote

Memo to fish -- As a non-resident, please explain why you give a crap about the politics of supervisor elections in Nevada County, other than you just like to get off on stirring the soup?

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 11 October 2015 at 09:52 AM

Total guess but I would guess Huck Finn

MikeL

Joe K.....please be a leader and do you part and stop all of your uses of fossil fuels.

Please supply a list of the scientists that have taken oil money and I will be glad to discount their work as being possibly tainted. I have not seen the list and would really like to know who these people are.

Joe Koyote

MikeL - if you are so interested than I assume you would do the research as I have done and find out for yourself rather than take other people's word for it. Be a leader Mike, here is a start.

http://graphics.latimes.com/exxon-arctic/

fish

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 11 October 2015 at 09:58 AM

jon and I discuss numerous topics here at RR's. Sometimes when he starts to act silly I comment about that much like I comment when you start to go off the rails after a hard night of political theory and Victory gin.

In point of fact, I don't care who wins the supervisors race.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 11 October 2015 at 09:34 AM

Well help a brother out and take a video for upload when you do!

larry wirth

Steven @7:48:

Your paraphrase of Hoffer sounds like a perfect description of the CAGW movement of today. Except the conspiracy part; not likely a matter of organized conspiracy, just a group of folks wanting to ride the best gravy train of the moment.

Next time you bloviate thusly, pick up a mirror while doing so.

Steven Frisch

I think you should read Hoffer too Larry.

The people with 'empty' rhetoric are here and in the denial community. No emptiness in the AGW community....it is tens of thousands of scientists and organizations from across the world...almost every major scientific organization...dozens of universities and scientific institution...

Face it, you guys are trying to make a few outliers appear to be a broad cross section of the scientific community....that is simply a lie.

Hoffer was talking about Todd, George, Walt, Russ and yes, you.

Discontented, alienated, 'last great century of man' thinkers.

fish

Posted by: larry wirth | 11 October 2015 at 10:29 AM

Your paraphrase of Hoffer sounds like a perfect description of the CAGW movement of today. Except the conspiracy part; not likely a matter of organized conspiracy, just a group of folks wanting to ride the best gravy train of the moment.

Next time you bloviate thusly, pick up a mirror while doing so.

Certainly you could use the term conspiracy Larry! Uncle Stupid stands to divert trillions from you into his pockets to spend on his wants. To spread around some "bread crumbs" to the various NGOs and guys like Steve who serve to evangelists for the the cause is conspiratorial by definition.

fish

Crap!

.....guys like Steve who serve as evangelists for the the cause...

Bill  Tozer

RICO Act? Shirley you jest. We knuckle dragging yahoo members of The Flat Earth Society are too scattered, in disarray, too disorganized, money losing, dying off cripples to ever be even remotely considered as an Organized Crime. Good lawyers are worth their weight in gold.

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 11 October 2015 at 09:06 AM

So was there a D or a R next to your entries so we can see who banned those books? I think that is missing. My guess is the democrats of the south banned most of those.

And yes, I am better looking than Steve Frisch. He is just jealous about my celebrity with TSA women agents at the X-ray machines. So, he acts like a 11 year old squealing little girl.

MikeL

Joe K (10:12 AM)
I just wanted to see if you had a list of the oil funded scientists. Apparently you don't, so you send me an article from the LA Times. Nice try. This still does not count as a list of the so called scientists that are funded by big oil who are trying to mislead the public.
I read a lot of sciency stuff and have only heard of one scientist that the true believers try to smear with this oil funding is evil label. This would be Dr. Soon.
As I said previously I am will to discount the oil funded scientists for possible biases in their work. It is just that I have not seen the super secret list of these people.
Please help...

Todd Juvinall

JoeK doesn't live in Nevada County so he and "jon" another non resident should not be taken seriously as they say about fish.

Heidi Ho! Censor those "deniers", shut them down and lock them up. And if that damn Union prints another letter debating the issue, throw that bum Hemig into jail too!

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 11:29 AM

As you are fond of saying Todd, "do your own damn research!"

But of course I have and the vast majority of those seeking to ban books are conservative groups, mostly religious groups, who object to either sexual orientation content or questioning religious doctrine. Although I am sure you can find one I am pretty sure you are going to be hard pressed to find any large body of 'liberals' advocating banning books,

Todd Juvinall

BS Frisch, you know the democrats of the south were the ones banning them. You are to easy.

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 11:51 AM

This from a guys who is featuring a picture of Adolph Hitler with a fake quote on the front page of his blog, thinks he has the biggest dick in the world, and refuses to do any independent research, or regularly calls sourcing a statement 'cut and paste.'

Todd, you just can't help it you are as dumb as a rock.

fish

.......thinks he has the biggest dick in the world!


The biggest in the world?? Really Todd?!

Hat tip (No high five though)!

Todd Juvinall

Steven Frisch | 11 October 2015 at 12:02 PM

One thing for sure about you is you just make it up and we have to clean it up for the folks. If there was a stupider person in Truckee it would be hard to find.

For the readers, this Frisch character spins a lot of tales but not many have truth in them. That is what a liberal does.

Lastly, as the reader can read, Frisch cannot prove his allegations about censorship and who practices it. We on the right want more free speech and debate, Mr. Frisch would jail you for arguing against "global warming" You all decide, Frisch, jail time for your speech, we on the right, more debate and more speech.

Todd Juvinall

fish | 11 October 2015 at 12:10 PM

Well Frisch seems to be obsessed with it. LOL!

Steven Frisch

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 11 October 2015 at 12:17 PM

Really Todd all I have to do is quote you to make you look like Freudian dream, stupid and juvenile at the same time.

Todd Juvinall

Steve Frisch, you are soo easy. My goodness no wonder the country is in a mess with people like you spreading the BS.

Bill  Tozer

Steve F @ 11:47 in the am.

Well, it sure wasn't us inbred hillbillies who took Huck Finn out of public education. Shoot howdy, we has to read that boring Looking Backwards and did not one, not two, but 3 reports on it. Spent longer on that one book that the others as the teacher was having daily organism about the coming People's Paradise of Utopia. And of course, she make us read some more Upton Sinclair to be fair and balanced and get our thinking caps screwed on right. I have been indoctrinated!, but survived.
Yep, hard to rid myself of all that brain washing from back in the day. It's been a long hard road from being a tree hugging granola brain self pitting Yippie, (Youth International Party) to this mellow Morris the puddly cat. There is yet hope for Steve. Never trust anyone over 30, Pig, pig, pig!, and "when the revolution comes there will be no more nigger or bullshit."
While all my early teen age contemporaries where buying the Beatles and Beach Boy records, I bought The Stone's Street Fighting Man and Paint it Black. Steve, keep spinning those "Be True To Your School"and "Hey Jude" 45s until your turntable needle wears out. See ya when you get back from NeverNeverLand. I'll leave a candle for ya in the window...just under the curtains.

Gregory

"Face it, you guys are trying to make a few outliers appear to be a broad cross section of the scientific community....that is simply a lie."-Frisch


Half of Mann's American Meteorological Society believe less than half of the last century's warming is from the actions of man. Fact.

The oft repeated "97%" claims are complete fabrications from the likes of Doran&Zimmerman, Oreskes and Cook and the likes of Mann should be ashamed to repeat them.

Bonnie McGuire

I like to read the blogs to see how people think about things. Dr. Rebane yours is wonderful because of your example. Most interesting are those able to express their opinions here, but would limit the opinions of those with whom they disagree. I wonder why they show up here instead of sticking to their boring one opinion blog that belittles opposing ideas. In fact, they constantly stir the pot with the same old tunnel vision. Most who have been around, watched and experienced the planned undermining of our economy and valuable middle class workers find the dumb pot stirring rhetoric repulsive. It's not realistic....and caustic.

Steven Frisch

"Most who have been around, watched and experienced the planned undermining of our economy and valuable middle class workers find the dumb pot stirring rhetoric repulsive."

Some day you will wake up an realize who planned the undermining of the middle class Bonnie, starting with the Powell memo.

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