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« Scattershots - 21mar16 (updated 22mar16) | Main | He is Risen! »

23 March 2016

Comments

MikeyMcD


Would a declaration of war on Radical Islam cost more innocent lives than the status quo?
What would be the stated objective of a war on Radical Islam and what amount of innocent lives would be required to meet said objective?

I think our politicians are content to offer up sacrifices (sporadic murders of unarmed/defenseless innocent citizens) to Radical Islam via 'head in the sand' approach rather than attempt to address such an intimidating objective.

The world is at an epic loss of leadership.

Don Bessee

The AP just flashed that there are 400 trained jihadis who were infiltrated into Europe for mass attacks. Only 400?

George Rebane

DonB 1227pm - Unfortunately AP is a flagship lamestream news medium. They have historically sought to promote progressive causes and minimize the Islamic threat in their wordsmithing of news. Our security mavens now admit that the number of terrorist cells in the US number in the hundreds. Europe has a much bigger problem that grows daily.

drivebyposter

"The AP just flashed that there are 400 trained jihadis who were infiltrated into Europe for mass attacks. Only 400?"

Well, they certainly aren't very good at their jobs.

Just imagine the mayhem you could cause by abandoning a car on the Bay Bridge every day, much less shooting a Stinger up in the air in the LAX arrival path and threaten to do it again somewhere. A deer rifle could probably bring a US city to it's knees if cleverly used.

I've always wondered why terrorists aren't more effective. Just throw the concept of a cheap drone into the mix and hilarity ensues.

I expect that in the historian's long run, the mass movement of peoples will matter far more than the odd explosion at an airport.

George Rebane

driveby 1257pm - Mass movements of people have always impacted more than the "odd explosions", but the nature of the impacts have always depended on whether the migrants go to make better lives by assimilating with destination cultures or supersede them through colonization.

Norm Sauer

For more than a millennia the Hungarians shed their blood, mostly without appreciation from the West, to protect Europe from the barbarians from the East, be they Mongols or Turks. For 150 years Hungary was occupied and decimated by the Turk during the 16th and 17th centuries, nevertheless their passion as a people of the "nation" of Hungary never died. This passion persisted despite lack of appreciation from Europe west of the Danube whose hollow support and behind-the-back deal-making with the Turks persisted to the detriment of Hungary and ultimately Western Europe.

It seems today most of Europe, and especially its Progressive leaders, fail to appreciate European/Hungarian history and that the barbarians from the East wish to continue their invasion and conquest of Europe. To be ruled by fools is to aggravate the suffering of the people as well as probably result in the loss of their country.

In an essay entitled "Between East and West" the Hungarian historian Viktor Padany wrote:
"We were bled in fighting against the East rather than siding with it--and what did we get as reward?. . .
"Considering this indifference we have to realize more than ever that we stand utterly abandoned and are terribly alone in Europe. . ."

Regrettably, this reality persists in Europe today. Until their leaders come to their senses, or there is a civil war, the suicidal decisions of Europe's rulers will continue.

drivebyposter

GR @ 1:01pm

For the life of me I can't think of a case where mass movements didn't result in colonization in the cases where immigrants came from across an ethnic fault line. The intention of individuals doesn't scale to the group. 'Mass' in this case ends up being a kind of circular definition in that I mean 'numbers great enough to result in displacement'.

I'm only diminishing sporadic violence because it's a side effect, not a prime mover. In the long run, it'll be long forgotten while colonization is a culture destroyer.

George Rebane

driveby 217pm - Actually there have been several of them including the largest mass migration in human history, the one that took place during and after WW2 from the east to the west to escape Soviet communism. This migration involved over 60M east Europeans who left their homelands. My family and I were part of that migration in which NONE of the destination cultures were colonized by the European migrants.

Here's more on non-colonizing migrations.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/refugees_01.shtml
http://time.com/4029800/world-war-ii-refugee-photos-migrant-crisis/
http://www.cato.org/blog/post-world-war-ii-migration-lessons-studying-liberalized-immigration

drivebyposter

That's an interesting case, you'll notice that I said 'ethnic fault line' (or metaethnic divide might be a better term) and I'm not altogether sure that millions of ethnic Germans (among others) moving West can be considered that. Personally, I'd think of the real divide as that between Russia and Western Europe (Orthodox v. Catholic/Protestant church, language groups, etc.).

A heckuva lot of colonizing went on in Prussia, the ethnic cleansing of Silesia and the like.

There are plenty of pure plays in colonization. The edges of empire is where a lot of the action happens. The English diaspora to (what became) the USA, Canada, Australia, NZ, obviously displace the existing cultures nearly entirely. The Germanic tribes into Rome, the Muslim invasion of the world. I think it's fair to say that any large group with high social capital can handle a smallish (as a percentage of current population) infusion of other people from anywhere, a somewhat larger group from a similar culture, like German Poles into Germany after WWII, nobody can withstand a sufficiently large incoming group.

It seems there's a continuum here. If 50,000 refugee Estonians (to take a purely random case) moved to Liechtenstein simultaneously, regardless of their good intent and many similarities, they would alter and likely destroy the host country as a historical entity.

drivebyposter

You know, this sounds like an interesting research project.

Given adjoining polities, how steep is the divide between the two, and in the cases where a border has been breached, to what extent has the host country been altered. Assigning numbers to this would be really a great exercise, rather like giving combat effectiveness to military units in war gaming.

My gut says there's a nonlinear relationship here, double the immigrants results in more than 2x the change since given greater numbers they are more likely to self organize in groups.

A wonderful exercise for a simulation and non-trivial.

George Rebane

driveby 310pm - Your arguments are clinging to straws. There was no colonizing, period. And of the east German exodus to west Germany, that was negligible within the 60M. The ethnicities that mixed were indeed significant, yet more significant were the subsequent assimilations. I and people like me are perhaps the poster children that define these assimilations.

A more profitable discussion would be about Islam, which from its foundational scriptures to today's Islamic countries preach to their flocks the manifest destiny that Allah has in store for the world. Never in human history have we seen such a dedicated belief system that attracts fighters in the thousands willing to sacrifice everything including their lives so that man will ultimately succumb to the teachings of the prophet.

And our response comprises of clutches of civilians crying at makeshift memorials while petitioning for peace in the world. All the while American leaders are dismissing Islamist success while responding with pinpricks from what might we can bring to bear. For that Islamists spit in our faces, and Muslims living among us are doing some real soul searching as to how openly they should let their hopes for the caliphate be seen. No one wants to adhere to let alone join a fearful civilization drowning in their own tears.

drivebyposter

"Your arguments are clinging to straws. There was no colonizing, period. "

Oh well, I'll get straw for myself wherever I can find it, but none of my labor will be reduced.

I'm seeing 30+ million ethnic Germans moved at the end of WWII due to the Potsdam Conference and other reasons, hardly negligible. Are the remaining other nationalities (non-German) incredibly different than the places they refugeed to? Would you have greater problems accepting 60 million people from India or sub-Saharan Africa?

So is a movement of a mass amount of culturally similar people into an area that has been blown to splinters disruptive? colonizing? something else? That's hard to answer. It's a case that looks more like 52 card pick up than it does a good example for other times and places.

My only argument, which may well cling to straws, is that the more dissimilar the culture supplying the immigrants, the more disruption. The greater the numbers, the more disruption. The lower the social cohesion of the target country (or the greater the sending country), the more disruption. Whether it's quantifiable or not I can't say, but it seems like common sense to me.

drivebyposter

Hang on, GR, I think I see what my (perceived) argument is, although I think it's a bit of strawman, to keep with the straw theme.

My guess is that you are claiming that a large clump of Eastern Europeans makes a better bunch of neighbors than a large clump of Yemenis/Syrians/various flavours of Arabs regardless of target country. That's certainly possible but not the direction I was headed.

As a thought experiment, lets say you moved 10 million Volksdeutsche from the collapse of Eastern Europe by the Soviets to Egypt vs. the same number of Sunni Iraqis. The first may do a better job of keep the streets clean, but I'm not altogether certain that you would have ended up with as tidy a job of assimilation.

George Rebane

Driveby 502pm – I think your German numbers are more than a bit off. A total of about 14M (part of the 60M) became part of the Great WW2 Migration. Germany’s pre-partition population was about 70M. Post partition these divided 50M West Germany and 25M+ in East Germany. Most of the 14M ethnic German migrants from eastern Europe emigrated in the 1946-1951 exodus to countries around the globe.

I have made no “better neighbors” claims in this comment stream; that is purely your fabrication. But it is not rocket science to understand that the closer an immigrant culture is to the host culture, the quicker and more complete is the assimilation. And, of course, the obverse of that also holds as we witness in today’s world. American history is an evidentiary test bed for that.

BTW, Germans have always done a good job in acculturating with Anglos and other northern Europeans. Few people today know that during our Revolution more Americans spoke German than any other language (German was also the court language of King George III).

What are your druthers about importing Muslims to America during these war years?

Walt

Let's hope this guy's luck doesn't run out.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3505243/It-s-blessing-God-s-alive-American-Mormon-injured-brush-terrorism-Brussels-surviving-Boston-bombing-Paris-attacks.html

Is this guy some sort of attack magnet?

Don Bessee

Walt, I might want not want to go an a tour with him. ;-)

Robert Cross

If, as often stated, the goals of radical Islam are to change our "way of life" and "destroy our freedoms", is it not possible that they have already achieved that goal? All one has to do is look at how our "way of life" has changed since 911. NSA spying, militarized local police, taking off your shoes at the airport, etc. and now proposals to limit/prohibit immigration of certain people of a particular religious belief, closing the borders, building fences, extra patrols in certain neighborhoods. What is next, internment camps, ethnic ghettos, more Guantanamos? The goal of terrorism is to cause change via fear. Islamic terrorists can never win a global war as they don't have the military capacity to take on super powers head on, so they bite at our heels, hit and run in the hopes that normal societies collapse in fear.

The western world is quickly becoming a police state. Our freedoms are being usurped in the name of the war on terror. Just what the terrorists want. The "come to America for a better life" promise that has attracted immigrants since our country's founding (and before) is being destroyed. The terrorist can say "why do you want to go to America they are just as bad as Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Afghanistan, or fill in the name of any country in turmoil. How can America be the "shining light of freedom" with the doors closed? The western world is being sucked into playing the terrorists' game by the terrorists' rules. We are not becoming the hope of the world, but rather just another thug. We have to find another approach otherwise it's game, set, match, they win. And no, I don't know what that solution is, but I am not a politician, diplomat, or a general. But playing their game isn't it.

George Rebane

In addition to the 24mar16 update to this post, I also want to draw your kind attention to the 24mar16 update to 'Legal Marijuana is Coming'.

Gregory

Geezus kayr iced, people, there are more similarities than differences between American anglo culture and German culture, and if you spend any time learning the German language you very quickly learn about high, middle and low German, corresponding roughly to the altitude of the area that speaks it. It will strike you after a very short time that English as a language can be thought of as even lower German. We sing the same Christmas carols, translated. We tell many of the same stories to our young children, a truth I was delighted to discover when reading bedtime stories to my son in Sweisse (Swiss German) that was a gift from some not too distant cousins of his mothers. The guy we sent to defeat Germany in WWII was surnamed Eisenhower (nee' Eisenhauer, Pennsylvania Deutch)... guess where his paternal line leads. He even lived in the White House for a time.

Regarding the English and the Germans, well, the Queen of England is more German than English... they dropped the German surname in favor of Windsor during WWI... the fact that the manufacturer of one of the bombers the Germans used to bomb England was also a Gotha didn't help the popularity of the Royals.

In short, at least among the more germanic language countries, there are more similarities than differences. If you've Netflix, try viewing the Millenium miniseries (aka The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo) in Swedish... Nordic Noir... with English subtitles. For a lot of fun, watch Lillyhammer, the sadly cancelled Norwegian/American gangster comedy in both languages that even featured Van Zant's bandleader, Bruce Springsteen, in an interesting cameo as a hitman.

Then there's the Latin and other language bases, French, Italian, Spanish, Portugese, Slav, ... apologies for not doing them justice here... even someone raised in a Serbian Orthodox community is going to have an easier time at a Church of England service than a Shia, Sunni or Buddhist.

Think Occident vs Orient, not German vs. American. We're still a melting pot but one has to agree to melt to blend in and bring your flavors to the mix, although those Norwegian bachelor farmers need to get with the program.

Walt

Robert C. .. Today's immigration policies of today are FAR different than they used to be.
Now they let pretty much anyone in. That wasn't the case "way back when".
Back "then" immigrants came here to become one of "us", and left "what they were",, where they came from. Today, they are bringing all that baggage with them. They still want what they left, and "we" are to "deal with it". They even want their laws (from where they came from) to be honored here. ( Not happening...)

Jon

Walt, your racism and ignorance of immigration policy, history, and other cultures is beyond comprehension. But being a Trumper explains all.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 24 March 2016 at 01:25 PM

Walt, your racism and ignorance of immigration policy, history, and other cultures is beyond comprehension. But being a Trumper explains all.


Yeah Walt....with an attitude like that you'll probably never have to leave a Belgian airport in a "Left as Good Friends" brand post suicide bomber body bag!

Walt

I see my stalker is back. As usual messed up in the head about U.S. history.
Muslims have never been our friends, contrary to what "O" said. look that one up "jon".
(Look to the Marine Corp. hymn for a clue)
Sorry "jon" we sent in the troops instead of an extortion payment.Another historical fact,,smartass...
I guess you missed the memo that a fair amount of Muslims want their Sharia law to be observed here. ( Tough shi*)

As for the Euro lovers like you,( Socialists) go where it is. Enjoy! The U.S. became what it is,(or used to be) because is wasn't, and didn't want to be like Europe.

Things were just fine here, until the likes of you came along.

Yes siree!! Trump is the man! ( Now go seek a renta' buddy because "Trump" was written here.. No "safe zone" here.)

Todd Juvinall

Hey "jon" how are things up there in the Pike area? Any rednecks living close by? And how is you sister/wife? LOL!

Walt

Speaking of terrorists,(the IRS) Mark Mekler is sticking it to the IRS once again.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/03/24/federal-appeals-court-slams-irs-in-tea-party-case-demands-documents.html

Bill Tozer

Mr Robert Cross @ 9:50 in the morning.

"The western world is quickly becoming a police state."
No shit, Mr. Cross. And do you know why? It's because we fine civilized countries let Muslims in. The Western World is becoming a police state solely because of Ragheads, camel jockies, goat humpers, and an assortment of bush rats, pediphiles, rapists, and their Stone Age cultures off spring. No other reason. No Muslims, no need for police state. Simple.

Yo Walt, left you a message on The Great Ametican Disconnect. 3 out of 4 last posts. :)

Don Bessee

If the US is such a police state then why is the boarder wide open and the Boarder Patrol Union is reporting they are being ordered to ignore the laws on the books by 0?

jon smith

Bessee-
If you want any respect, PLEASE write a single sentence that is either grammatically correct or doesn't contain inane typos. The boarder patrol are working the beaches of Santa Cruz, CA, not Mexico.

Don Bessee

SPEED KILLS! Dont be keadin no stikin gramer. LOL ;-)

Scott Obermuller

from Jon - "Walt, your racism and ignorance of immigration policy, history, and other cultures is beyond comprehension. But being a Trumper explains all."

Brilliant, Jon. Now, I'll do that.

Jon, your racism and ignorance of immigration policy, history, and other cultures is beyond comprehension. But being a Hillite explains all.

Almost a tie.

But I win because I know how freakin' ignorant that fact-free rant is.

Please come back when you have some intelligent to say.

Don Bessee

The Bernie bros are vowing mass action in DC from 4/11 to 4/16 with thousands signing up to get arrested. Is 0 in HI then? I am sure the parents are glad to have a break from their kid in the basement. ;-)

George Boardman

To Bessee and Smith:

You guys have one thing in common: Neither one of you knows how to spell border.

Walt

OK, George B. Your new spelling is "Bordman". Funny thing about the spell'n police. Usually they "F" up and break their own law. It's just a matter of time George,, just a matter of time. Then it will be your turn in the game of "hang man". The spell'n "vigilantes" will be watching.

Todd Juvinall

LOL!

fish

Hey....I thought the United States government was committed to providing an impartial secular educational experience for all its young charges......


"MN Schools Provide Prayer Rooms, Rugs For Influx Of Refugee Students... "


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/how-one-minnesota-school-district-handles-a-rising-immigrant-population/

Jon

fish, a little accommodation really bothers ya, ha?
MN is a good place.
..and your boy at 75% unfavorable will still never be President!

Walt

Really "jon"? schools bitch because they can't even supply pencils, yet now they can come up with the money for Muslim religious "gear". ( you know,, TAXPAYER money.) You would be the first to bitch if a personally owned Holy Bible was walked across the school property line.

Todd Juvinall

So "jon" you are OK with a prayer area or chapel in the schools for Christians?>

Jon

Yes. It's all idiotic anyway. John Lennon was so spot on.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 25 March 2016 at 10:26 AM

I just find the lefty flip flop on prayer in school to be incredibly entertaining and wonderfully hypocritical! You guys never disappoint!

Further "your boy" isn't my boy at all.....I'm pulling for "our girl".

Now much like a Belgian Airport Islamic suicide bombing or Cologne Festival Rapefugee street party we should probably just choose to, "leave as good friends" !

George Boardman

Re Walt at 9:53:

I'd be the last to claim I'm a master speller, but "border" is a word each of them should have learned a long time ago.

fish

Posted by: Jon | 25 March 2016 at 11:23 AM

.....John Lennon was so spot on.


Rock stars.....is there nothing they can't do?

Don Bessee

It's a border line issue Bordman. LOL ;-)

Bill Tozer

Ah, a bridge across borded waters.

Jon

Fish, my Turkish friends and I were dining down near you last weekend. Thought of you, brother...

fish

Well let's hope something like this doesn't happen to you after the dessert course.....brother.


"Murdered by the very migrant for whom he cared, Mehdi’s tolerance for the 58-year-old Afghan refugee came “full swing” when police say they got into an “argument,” according to Bild. Upset that Mehdi, the man who gave him everything, simply disagreed with him, the unidentified asylum seeker took a rock and a large metal instrument and bashed the teacher’s head to a bloody pulp. He then dragged the mutilated body down to the basement in an attempt to cover up his gruesome crime."


http://celleheute.de/dank-spenden-getoeteter-lehrer-mehdi-hushmand-im-iran-beigesetzt/

Walt

And the "jon" says he will take a few. Don't piss'm off "jon"....

Todd Juvinall

"jon" ask your Turkish pals if the agreed with their countries genocide against the Armenians in 1915. Be careful though, they may bash your head in.

Walt

Required reading for the "jon".
http://news.yahoo.com/un-atomic-chief-warns-nuclear-terrorism-134919251.html
Could NEVER happen... Right? It's something the ragheads just wouldn't do. They should be held blameless if it does. So who should the finger be pointed at "jon"? Trump people?(ah shit.. forgot that Trump trigger warning. "jon" is now hiding in the safe room.)

Bill Tozer

V
https://www.facebook.com/Lindfidel/photos/a.531868886982754.1073741828.531865270316449/533001850202791/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/815329498601089/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

Jon is back! I missed my little adopted retarded brother so much! Welcome little buddy.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/pb.51560645913.-2207520000.1458946326./10152794704945914/?type=3&theater

http://patriotpost.us/articles/41491

Paul Emery

George

Let me give you the opportunity to express your ideas as to what your policy would be if your were President of the United States concerning Islamic radicalism in this country and our foreign policy abroad. I know you cannot be President because you are furrin born but just pretend.

Questions are: What would be your policy concerning Moslem visitors to this country both immigrants and business representatives (House of Saud etc)?

What would your policy be towards Islamic American citizens concerning restrictions on their freedom that would be different than Christian Americans.

What unilateral actions should we take with our military as to ISIS and radical Islam abroad.

Awaiting your policy positions.

Jon

Man oh man, the level of racism and fear from the RR Fearful Brigade has ramped up to unheard of levels...)

fish

Posted by: Jon | 25 March 2016 at 07:07 PM


Yes we're terrified......just like you guys losing your minds over Trump, theTea Party, and gun ownership......

Bill Tozer

.....and Evangelical Christians, Southern Baptists, Flatearth Society Card Carrying Members, Vets, Anglos, Southerns, conservatives, 1%ers, Constitutionalists, smaller government, and Holy Rollers.

George Rebane

PaulE 644pm - Your giving me an "opportunity to express my ideas" is indeed a generous surprise. I was wondering when someone was going to take off my muzzle and finally let me start saying what I really believe on these pages. Thank you.

However, this unexpected opportunity is a bit overwhelming, so please let me catch my breath and I'll get back to you when I get my bearings.

Paul Emery

You never know George you might win my vote.

Don Bessee

For what Paul @ 927? ;-)

Bill Tozer

Jon, they cancelled your March. Must be fear. I call that justifiable fear. A natural reaction to being attacked with more Ragheads running amok.

http://news.yahoo.com/organisers-cancel-sundays-brussels-attacks-march-against-fear-160850318.html

Bill Tozer

Do not wish Christians in Scotland a nice Easter....if you are Muslim. Just the facts. The Jackals are coming. Muslim on Muslin crime. Opps, good Muslim kills bad Muslim. Reality.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/03/26/scotland-police-probe-killing-muslim-shopkeeper-who-posted-facebook-easter-message-to-christians.html?intcmp=hppop

Walt

Bill.. "jon" has yet to come out of his safe room. ( or his neighbor changed the wifi access code) I hear "Trump" written in chalk, is appearing all over the county.

Paul Emery

It's a euphemism Don. By the way, what abou my invite to walk GV and talk to business about the economic effects of W?

Bill Tozer

Those leftist activists are now playing with people's lives. Sad, sad. Well, at least the word is out than Afgans and Pakistanis are not going to get one finger in the cookie jar. Nice job by the Syrian/Iraqis. It's a dog eat dog world out there.

http://news.yahoo.com/iraqi-syrian-refugees-block-other-migrants-protest-133726988.html

Jon

Drumpf in Mexico! LOL.. A total joke of a politician.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-effigy-mexico-easter_us_56f78285e4b0143a9b487221

Bill Tozer

Zzzzzz

https://www.facebook.com/USAPatriots/photos/a.448370578526854.103985.133154313381817/1087131971317375/?type=3&theater


http://pamelageller.com/2016/03/teacher-tweets-muslim-students-cheered-brussels.html/

Bill Tozer

Oh Jon, every real news organization had that story. Unfortunately for you, every outlet except your beloved Huff-n-Puff Post had the story of Obama and Trump being burned in effigy. Yep, Obama is a total joke of a politician. Obama burned with Trump.. Something for every drug runner and greaseball wetback with a 5th grade education. Piñata time in ole Mehico.
Keep trying Jon. Someday someone will put you on their knee and read to you the rest of the story. I cannot believe how stupid you are. By golly, you are a child of the universe. The only question remains is what universe. You are embarring yourself, so please, keep those cards and letters coming.

Bill Tozer

Spawn of ISIS:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1036073383097533&set=a.444475062257371.95752.100000846429384&type=3&theater

Muslims bad. Sikhs good. Sikhs assimilate, contribute. Muslims want to destroy, not contribute, never assumlaite. Not loyal or truthful.

https://www.facebook.com/OurEyeOnIslam/photos/a.1496295053969746.1073741829.1427801500819102/1686390534960196/?type=3&theater

Russ Steele

Bloody tide: Terror deaths increased 8-fold since 2010, says study.

“The deadly toll of terrorism around the globe has jumped nearly 800 percent in the past five years, according to an exhaustive new report that blames the alarming expansion of Islamist groups across the Middle East and Africa. The nonprofit Investigative Project on Terrorism found that an average of nearly 30,000 people per year have been killed by terrorists since 2010, when terrorism’s death toll was 3,284. The authors of the study, which tabulated the numbers through the end of 2015, say that the exponential increase shows two troubling trends: More attacks are happening, and they tend to be deadlier than ever.”

Bill Tozer

X

http://patriotpost.us/articles/41561

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