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« Scattershots – 3jun16 | Main | Scott Adams ‘endorses’ Hillary »

04 June 2016

Comments

Paul Emery

George

I have to remind you that is was a Republican President, Richard Nison that first proposed a GAI in 1969.

http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/guaranteed-income%E2%80%99s-moment-sun?page=0,2

George Rebane

PaulE 114pm - Milton Friedman would disagree with you on this side of the Atlantic, and many more for the other side of the pond.

GNI has been promoted for a while, the only debate that remains is whether a sustainable method can be found to implement it that does not rapidly descend to tyranny. In that the Left has demonstrated for over 150 years that it doesn't have a clue. Maybe getting some greedy capitalists involved will yield something better.

Russ Steele

GENEVA (AP) — Would you accept about $2,500 from your government every month, no questions asked?

Swiss voters get a choice Sunday in a referendum that, while not specifying a figure, asks if they want “unconditional basic income.” Experts estimate a minimum of 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,560) per month is needed for an individual to make ends meet in wealthy Switzerland, where private-sector health insurance is required and the cost of living is sky-high.

Critics warn that the policy would explode the state budget. The Swiss government itself advises voters to reject the proposal, and polls suggest it will fail in a country known for free-market policies and a high-tech, capitalistic financial sector.

Proponents, however, insist the time has come for a minimum monthly wage as sweeping 21st-century economic changes like robots displacing factory workers make jobs more precarious in the digital age. They say they’re seeking momentum more than outright victory.

Polls have suggested that only about one-quarter of Swiss voters back the idea.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/handout-or-no-swiss-mull-2500-monthly-income-for-all/

Stay Tuned we will know tomorrow if more than 25% of the Swiss populations are socialist.

George Rebane

RussS 308pm - You may also be interested that as mentioned above, RR reported this in the 3jun16 scattershots ;-)

BradC

Here is a Wiki on GNI, seemed to have been around in some form or another for a while,

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

Russ Steele

George,03:18PM

I saw your post but thought the Breitbart story had more analysis of the possible success of the initiative.

Bill Tozer

While not directly related to guaranteed atonal income, those who leave th job market are under 65 years old are eligible for Medicaid. Big Bro always gets stuck in the one size fits all.
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/279796-how-medicaid-audits-hurt-children-in-my-home-state

Scott Obermuller

This GNI 'solution' is typical of modern thinking. Problem? Just wave a magic govt wand solution and all will be well. Even the article that seems to favor the GNI scheme admits to there being just a few little issues that might arise. Suppose the US institutes this scheme. Overnight, 9/10 of Mexico will be pouring through our borders. The suggestion that the money needed to pay for it will come from increased taxes completely failed to account for the devastation of the economy that will ensue. The idea that most or all of this money could come from increased taxes on land was hilarious. I know we land owners would otherwise just throw that money in a bonfire out back. And the clueless suggestion that it would cause land owners to then make their land more productive was a total joke. Maybe in some part of the galaxy but you go ahead and just try to make money off of your land and the reality of zoning laws, neighborhood restrictions, environmental laws and the fact that all the other land owners would be trying the same thing reduces that idiocy to ashes.
Hate to be a broken record folks, but the problem is that humans need to be productive in some way that is of value to other humans. It's called society. If you're not pulling your weight, you are a drag on the rest of us. Being productive takes many forms and is not limited to having a paid job. Just going out and painting your house or picking up the garbage or making something useful or repairing something makes you a productive person. The idea that we can solve the problem by printing money and handing it to millions that aren't productive is just another step down on the path to the unravelling of society. The GNI 'solution' is just another way to kick the can down the road. It's not a solution. We are a wealthy country, but we didn't get that way by paying folks to sit around and promise not to riot.
The GNI idea is nothing more than the economic equivalent of the perpetual motion machine.
Have fun!

Russ Steele

Update:

ZURICH/BERN (Reuters) - Swiss voters rejected by a wide margin on Sunday a proposal to introduce a guaranteed basic income for everyone living in the wealthy country after an uneasy debate about the future of work at a time of increasing automation.

Supporters had said introducing a monthly income of 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,563) per adult and 625 francs per child under 18 no matter how much they work would promote human dignity and public service.

Opponents, including the government, said it would cost too much and weaken the economy.

Projections by the GFS polling outfit for Swiss broadcaster SRF showed nearly four out of five voters opposed the bold social experiment launched by Basel cafe owner Daniel Haeni and allies in a vote under the Swiss system of direct democracy.

Bill Tozer

GNI makes sense to the Left. A 12 year study involving 100,000 people spread over 40 states confirms this. Nothing we did not already know.

http://gopthedailydose.com/2015/06/01/new-study-reveals-liberals-have-a-lower-average-iq-than-conservatives/

Switzerland is darn impossible to immigrate to unless you have a big wad of greenbacks in the bank. Is not this the same country that requires citizens to own firearms? The no vote of the GNI in Swtzerland was a no-brainer.

Gregory

What we have now in the US is worse than a minimum income. Hiring people who ostensibly could do real work at three+ times the minimum income in order to make sure people who are given less than the minimum income aren't actually working on the side is an expensive disaster.

The biggest positives of Milton Friedman's negative income tax scheme is that work is always rewarded, not punished, and you get to fire huge number of Federal and State bureaucrats who will then go do something more productive, which, ironically, includes sitting at home with their thumb where the sun doesn't shine.

Gregory

Regarding BT's study about the IQ of the left vs the right, the original publication of the story ended with the following disclaimer:


Oh yeah, and everything in that bullsh*t you just read is completely and totally false. There has been no such conclusive study, and all of the "Finds" are based on public paranoia. Chances are good that if you are a conservative, you were empowered by this new find.

If you, even for a second, thought this find might be true, you are probably an idiot.

You've been pwned.

BradC

Oh dear, Mr. Tozer, I think you stepped in it. I believe much of what reverberates through the various echo chambers also stinks of this.

Scott Obermuller

"...and you get to fire huge number of Federal and State bureaucrats who will then go do something more productive, which, ironically, includes sitting at home with their thumb where the sun doesn't shine."
Hey - I'm with you in spirit, but we're supposed to be talking about reality. We already 'get' to fire millions of govt workers, but the actual chances of that happening are zero. It just won't ever occur.

Bill Tozer

Oh Brad (and Gregory). Punked? Me? Nah. First clue was this is a sponsored site, not a news story.. Second clue was Obama running away down a strange corridor, and 3rd was Hillary hanging up when she discovered the topic was being mentioned at all. Did like the Communists fairing higher up the evolution ladder than liberals. Good one. And the smartest of the bunch is those non affiliated souls.
Yes, I was waiting for our fact checkers to tell me I have been punked so I could reply, "Nah, you have been punked." Slow news day.

Jon Dozer

Good job Tozer! :) Very, very funny stuff.

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