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« Yes, ethnicity, culture, and even ideology impact decisions | Main | Ruminations – 11jun16 »

09 June 2016

Comments

Todd Juvinall

Bppting Reynolds v Sims would be easier if we only had a conservative court.

Jon Dozer

Which town would you take as the capitol of Jefferson, Todd-
Alturas or Yreka? Yreka right off the Interstate, so its the odds on favorite I guess. The two largest cities near the logical heart of Jefferson.
Or would you create a brand new capitol "city" out of the middle of the Siskiyou National Forest? Jefferson's own DC or Brazilia.

Jon Dozer

Definitely Yreka. Things can be a bit slow in Alturas.

http://interactive.nydailynews.com/2016/02/state-of-jefferson-secessionists-california-gun-totin-rebels/

Gregory

After California reverts to being a territory as a result of financial collapse there will be time to dream, but as long as many billions or even trillions of unfunded liabilites are lurking, it's a waste of time. Political masturbation.

Todd Juvinall

Toddville

Jon Dozer

I like Toddville. Very apropos.

George Rebane

Re SOJ - today it is only a vehicle to communicate that a huge fraction of inland Californians' interests are not represented in Sacramento so as to make a difference. SOJ is a legal and plausible movement to get that message out until 1) things change in Sacramento (snowball's chance in hell), or 2) CA's fiscal situation causes it to become essentially a ward of the federal govt that may be in a form that makes more people accept separation from SoCal, or ...

No one has come up with an alternative approach to communicate this growing dissatisfaction with liberal Sacramento. The only responses consist of advice to sit down, shut up, and continue bending over when told to do so - i.e. same ol', same ol'. Meanwhile the progressive disease spreads into the hinterlands like the plague.

Jon Dozer

George R, wouldn't you think that a more moderate/progressive set of local officials might have more of a shot at working with Sacramento to get what we need in the more rural areas? At least Dahle and Gaines are intelligent enough to stay away from the SOJ movement. You're not going to get anything more from SAC by opposing everything they do down there. SOJ has merits in the border region, many hours and thoughts away from SAC. Makes zero sense here, being an hour away, and in their economic influence zone.

Gregory

The only possible fix for the imbalance in Sacramento politics within the current state of California is a resurrection of the original structure of the legislature, a Senate with a fixed number of seats per County, not a mirror image of the Assembly. If the most populous counties feel underrepresented they can always split.

That also won't happen with the one party state in residence in Sacramento. They likes it as it is.

Gregory

Regarding the Senate race in November, give the people a choice between a Democrat and a Democrat, they'll choose the Democrat every time.

At the time it was instituted, I thought the change was to make sure a Libertarian wouldn't make it to a statewide office race, not to skunk Republicans. I can't help but think there's an equal protection case hiding in there somewhere.

George Boardman

What do you want, Dr. R: Democracy or "selective autocracy"?

It's ironic that you cite an article in The Wall Street Journal about the retreat of democracy because the Asian edition of the paper has been fighting a guerrilla war with Singapore authorities for decades over its right to publish the news as it sees fit.

At various times during that period, the paper has been suspended from publication, banned, fined and sued, and various editors and reporters have been arrested, jailed and deported for publishing articles the authorities don't like.

Singapore is no template for the freedom-loving Americans who will populate the great State of Jefferson, unless you prefer economic prosperity at any price.

Todd Juvinall

Singapore scares the crap out of me. I am no fan of their government.

Jon Dozer

20 years for littering.

George Rebane

GeorgeB 702pm - Singapore was cited as the most successful example of a strong man economy, not as a template for us to follow. However, much of the rest of the world believes Singapore should be replicated. Our former method of free enterprise was the best the world has seen according to my lights. And no, I do NOT want democracy the way that progressives (and communists) seek it. I want what our Founders bequeathed.

fish

What say you progressive voter buyers......? Is this too much per head to buy the loyalty of a new cohort of democrat lever pullers?


"FEDS SPEND NEARLY $20,000 TO SETTLE EVERY REFUGEE...."


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-spend-nearly-20000-to-settle-every-refugee/article/2593331

Todd Juvinall

This morning the Congress is debating infrastructure. And they are trying to get more money from the taxpayers to do it. Well, the demoncrats are anyway. So, I say, put those Syrians and other immigrants to work on the infrastructure and get something for the money we already pay.

fish

Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 10 June 2016 at 08:05 AM

How bout we leave the Syrians in Syria and employ the unemployed Occupy Wall Street types already here.........

Todd Juvinall

OK, whatever works to spend our monet wisely.

Jon Dozer

"they are trying to get more money from the taxpayers to do it. Well, the demoncrats are anyway." Todd

Not only Democrats. GOP Nominee D. Drumpf is talking about this need for massive infrastructure improvements in every speech, and he would use taxpayer money not his own I would assume. Part of "making American great again", remember that cute little phrase? Perhaps he's not exactly the fiscal conservative many thought...to say the least...LOL.

Todd Juvinall

All one needs to do is look at the budgeting for any project to see the huge waste and abuse. I am confident that Trump will change those things to get it right. As a man who is in construction he knows where the numbers are inflated by government. There is plenty of money to do the jobs. Just look at California where a mile of freeway is now way more than it needs to be because of the ridiculous rules and waste.

Robert Cross

"Just look at California where a mile of freeway is now way more than it needs to be because of the ridiculous rules and waste."

The main reason freeways cost so much is NOT rules and waste but trucks. Concrete roadways would cost 1/4 to 1/3 of current costs if they didn't have to make the beds thick enough to handle the large trucks. A better way to go on this would be to have truck lanes with thick concrete for trucks only, and passenger car lanes for cars and light trucks only. Texas has freeways like that and we all know how you all like Texas.

"The establishment of SOJ as the 51st state is the only movement that has a reasonable chance of returning representation and a desirable quality of life to many of us."

How about finding candidates whose politics aren't so far to the right as to be unacceptable to the majority of residents? If local elections are any indication the politics of the Jeffersons are too extreme for most people. We live in a majority rule society, like it or not. The far right attitude seems to be "play by my rules or I will take my ball and go home", i.e.. SOJ. If you don't like your quality of life here then move to somewhere you think is more acceptable rather than try and impose your fringe politics (SOJ) onto the majority. If you want like minded people who march in lockstep, perhaps North Korea would be more to your liking and they already have a Donald Trump in charge.

Robert Cross

The SOJ initiative in Lassen Co. lost 58% to 42%. Very similar numbers to measure W and District 1. So you only need another 8% and your in. Good luck with that.

fish

Posted by: Robert Cross | 10 June 2016 at 10:55 AM

"Just look at California where a mile of freeway is now way more than it needs to be because of the ridiculous rules and waste."


....and sweetheart contracts with overpriced union labor ....and.....and....and.

The main reason freeways cost so much is NOT rules and waste but trucks. Concrete roadways would cost 1/4 to 1/3 of current costs if they didn't have to make the beds thick enough to handle the large trucks. A better way to go on this would be to have truck lanes with thick concrete for trucks only, and passenger car lanes for cars and light trucks only. Texas has freeways like that and we all know how you all like Texas.

No Bob it's still pretty much over regulation and waste (in addressing them). Ironically I'd be interested in examining dual zone highways but since the State of California has stated that it would really prefer to not expand the highway system little will likely come of it.

"The establishment of SOJ as the 51st state is the only movement that has a reasonable chance of returning representation and a desirable quality of life to many of us."

How about finding candidates whose politics aren't so far to the right as to be unacceptable to the majority of residents? If local elections are any indication the politics of the Jeffersons are too extreme for most people. We live in a majority rule society, like it or not. The far right attitude seems to be "play by my rules or I will take my ball and go home", i.e.. SOJ. If you don't like your quality of life here then move to somewhere you think is more acceptable rather than try and impose your fringe politics (SOJ) onto the majority. If you want like minded people who march in lockstep, perhaps North Korea would be more to your liking and they already have a Donald Trump in charge.

Well that's what they (the Republicans) are trying to do.....with little success though.

Don't whine about the process though. I don't recall hearing about SOJ supporters storming the capitol guns a blazin.

In any case I think we would all do well to entertain Gregs notion that the entire SOJ movement will largely be overtaken by events and the next series of financial crises cross checks the states finances into the boards. The SOJ may just come into existence of its own accord much like much of Europe sprang into being when Rome fractured.

George Rebane

RobertC 1055pm - Please reread your tirade. Is it not you and yours who constantly counsel the rest of us to fall in and march in lockstep with the majority? And don't you sound like a calcified 18th century royalist when you oppose change that would provide varieties of governance which more closely reflect the values of the divers cohorts that make up America? You're willing to mangle (trash?) the Constitution to make the road to autocratic socialism shorter, but you will not countenance other citizens following the provisions of that same Constitution in order to peacefully fashion themselves a socio-political environment that will let them breathe free.

My 359pm stands now amplified. BTW, re 'Greg's notion' - years past RR introduced the nascent SOJ movement (I was then on its steering committee) into these pages with that notion being the de facto impetus that would give rise to either more states, the Great Divide, or a fundamental transfer of CA's governing power to DC as a ward of the federal government (a fate that may be shared by other states as they crash that would spell the beginning of the end of federalism). We are circling the same barn.

Jon Dozer

"All one needs to do is look at the budgeting for any project to see the huge waste and abuse. I am confident that Trump will change those things to get it right." Todd

Since this mainly a Congressional action, Drumpf will really have nothing to say about it. He'll be too busy beating up on China, Mexico, immediately straightening out the VA and managing ISIS bombing details.
As he loves to say....believe me...LOL. No actually we don't Mr. Drumpf.

Not to worry, he's never going to be President. I told you that last year.

fish

Posted by: Jon Dozer | 10 June 2016 at 11:50 AM


From your lips to gods ear!

George Rebane

Apropos to our continuing discussion of governments and governance, I invite your attention to The Fourth Revolution: The Global Race to Reinvent the State by John Micklethwaite and Adrian Woolridge. There are massive changes going on in the world that only a small fraction of Americans are aware of as we enmesh ourselves in daily rounds of national narcissism. Mickelthwaite is editor-in-chief of Bloomberg News which hired him away from The Economist where he also was editor-in-chief. About the revealing essay -

Dysfunctional government: It’s become a cliché, and most of us are resigned to the fact that nothing is ever going to change. As John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge show us, that is a seriously limited view of things. In fact, there have been three great revolutions in government in the history of the modern world. The West has led these revolutions, but now we are in the midst of a fourth revolution, and it is Western government that is in danger of being left behind.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 10 June 2016 at 12:13 PM

Stop giving me books to read.......I still haven't finished the Tegmark "Our Mathematical Universe" yet!

Russ Steele

George@12:13PM

I put it on my Kindle, it is now in my reading cue with The Inevitable: Understanding the 12 Technological Forces That Will Shape Our Future, by Kevin Kelly

Much of what will happen in the next thirty years is inevitable, driven by technological trends that are already in motion. In this fascinating, provocative new book, Kevin Kelly provides an optimistic road map for the future, showing how the coming changes in our lives—from virtual reality in the home to an on-demand economy to artificial intelligence embedded in everything we manufacture—can be understood as the result of a few long-term, accelerating forces. Kelly both describes these deep trends—interacting, cognifying, flowing, screening, accessing, sharing, filtering, remixing, tracking, and questioning—and demonstrates how they overlap and are codependent on one another. These larger forces will completely revolutionize the way we buy, work, learn, and communicate with each other. By understanding and embracing them, says Kelly, it will be easier for us to remain on top of the coming wave of changes and to arrange our day-to-day relationships with technology in ways that bring forth maximum benefits. Kelly’s bright, hopeful book will be indispensable to anyone who seeks guidance on where their business, industry, or life is heading—what to invent, where to work, in what to invest, how to better reach customers, and what to begin to put into place—as this new world emerges.

It will be interesting to see how this emerging technology impacts the execution of The Forth Revolution and solves the dysfunctional government problem. My initial assessment is it will only make it worse. Now I need to read the books to find out if I am wrong. This may be a good subject for a separate thread.

Robert Cross

fish 11:22 -- please provide documented examples of your over regulation, waste, and sweetheart contracts.

George 11:46 -- How am I mangling the constitution by thinking the SOJ movement (if you seriously want to call it that) is absurd? It is a separatist movement not a unifying one. How does that reflect the "divers (e) cohorts." You rail about various ethnic groups not adapting to American culture, yet that is exactly what SOJ is about, isolation and rejection of the dominant culture of where you live. How is SOJ any different than Muslim enclaves?

Todd Juvinall

So why would the Constitution have a process for entry into the Union? California was very different county wise and the little one we live in was part of Yuba County once. Smaller is the push not on;y here but around the world. Look how many countries there are today as there were in 1960. People everywhere want to be closer to their selecteds. That is why there are provisions for creating cities. Truckee did that in the early 90's so they could have their own government. Wanting to create a entity to have a more responsive government is not absurd, it is desirable.

fish

fish 11:22 -- please provide documented examples of your over regulation, waste, and sweetheart contracts.


I'll do better....I'll let democrat stalwart Jerry Brown provide them for me!


“The whole framework of law is crucial for the operations of business enterprises,” Brown said. “But when over prescriptive, it creates a huge and growing amount of overhead and it does seem that we’re reaching the point of counter-productivity.”

California’s legal climate ranks in the bottom 10 of states. The state was ranked 44th in an annual survey by Harris Interactive of states’ legal climates from the perspective of in-house corporate counsel around the nation."Earlier Wednesday, Brown delivered a lengthy speech to the 7th Annual General Counsel West Coast Convention, where the Democrat told corporate legal officers that California’s vast amount of environmental and workplace laws and regulations creates unnecessary litigation.

“We are moving every year to add more and more legal prescription to our lives, to our organizations, to our businesses and how we all function,” Brown said, estimating that the state has about 30,000 more laws today than when he was a two-term governor from 1975 to 1983.

“We’re overlaid too much with too many rules,” Brown said. “The real challenge for lawyers and legislators and chief executives is to do no harm and to add to the system ways that give more elbow room, more flexibility, more discretion, more judgment.”


https://westransnews.org/2009/11/brown-california-is-over-regulated/

Which is funny because he seems to like them for everybody else....he expanded CEQA.....but wants his vanity choo choo project exempted.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/environmental-652487-state-california.html

Apparently the architects are feeling the pinch.....

http://www.aiacc.org/2011/01/28/regulated-to-death/

But hey ......apparently simply running from California only gets you a little respite!

http://www.economist.com/node/21547789


For waste and sweetheart contracts I'll direct you to anything involving the new Eastern span of the Bay Bridge.......no really.....make a weekend out of it!


....and just because I saw it today....the cherry on the Sundae!

"Rob Roy, legal counsel for Hiji Brothers, said members of the Japanese family that started the company decided to close because of what he described as the difficult regulatory climate in California."


http://www.vcstar.com/news/local/oxnard/oxnard-grower-that-employed-almost-300-closing-down-34dc9527-fb8a-797f-e053-0100007f801e-382440901.html

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 10 June 2016 at 11:46 AM

BTW, re 'Greg's notion' - years past RR introduced the nascent SOJ movement (I was then on its steering committee) into these pages with that notion being the de facto impetus that would give rise to either more states, the Great Divide, or a fundamental transfer of CA's governing power to DC as a ward of the federal government (a fate that may be shared by other states as they crash that would spell the beginning of the end of federalism). We are circling the same barn.

Not trying to deny you credit George.....Greg mentioned it yesterday so it was his post that was freshest in my mind!.

Barn circling.......yeah.....It's what we do here!

Jon Dozer

"People everywhere want to be closer to their selecteds". Todd

Of course. We are much closer to the elected now than we would ever be in the imaginery SOJ. Solid majority now here locally for DEM and NPP, and well diversified economy with relatively low unemployment. Strong digital connectivity is coming to the vast majority of our residents in 10 years.

For those dreaming of living amongst mining, timber and large scale cattle ranching, its best to check out alternate states.

Overall, we have NOTHING in common with Siskiyou and Modoc Counties. EOM.

Gregory

Boxer may have been the dimmest bulb warming a Senate seat... even the LA Times refused to endorse her in her last primary contest for just that reason.

Having a replacement with the same politics but a middling three digit IQ might well be worse.

George Rebane

RobertC 303pm – First, it appears that you know very little of the SOJ movement. And yes, that is what it is called at this stage of the game. You would know that were you informed; I did not name it. The rest of your comment is so absurd, I wouldn’t know how to begin responding to it. How is Utah different from California? For openers, I am sure you didn’t understand my 1146am given your question about ‘mangling’.

For the interested reader, we here witness the almost instinctual pull that progressives have for a homogeneous leviathan and the creation of ever larger centrally controlled jurisdictions – globalization is the goal. The conservetarian tendency is to go exactly in the opposite direction and have differentiation multiply as we consider ever more local and smaller jurisdictions, not to become a uniform amalgam at the grass roots level (dystopic sci-fi films feature such futures). The grand plan is still the Founders’ ‘E pluribus Unum’ – our unity becomes stronger as we approach the federal level of one sovereign nation-state. The states were supposed to be laboratories of governance where different forms could be tried and all could emulate the best practices of others, but only if it suited them. Socialism cum communism teaches the antithesis of that.

Todd Juvinall

Jon Dozer | 10 June 2016 at 05:24 PM

I think you are smoking the ganga again. We are majority represented by Republicans in almost every venue except the nutty Nevada City. And what I said was absolutely correct. I suggest you move back to your urban blight and leave the real people here alone. Jeeze these trolls are just dumb. No clue about rural life.

Scott Obermuller

"The main reason freeways cost so much is NOT rules and waste but trucks."
Ahem - my grandfather and my father both worked for the State of California Division Of Highways (CalTrans) as highway engineers. The cost per mile for freeways in this state has gone way up - far beyond inflation and the normal CPI inflation. The reasons are many, but trucks have absolutely nothing to do with it. California is now paying off gangs (oh -excuse me, neighborhood groups) for the rights to tread on their 'turf' in most parts of SoCal when planning any sort of freeway or access to a freeway. The engineering and ground work and ecological studies costs are through the roof. It doesn't matter whether or not you find these costs to be part of the normal cost of constructing things in California, just please don't bring up a stupid, idiot reason like trucks being the reason for the high cost of freeway and road construction and improvements. The weight per tire amount allowed on our roads hasn't changed much at all in 75 years. Look at pictures of old semis from the fifties and take a good look at what's being rolled now. Those trucks aren't beating up the roads any more than they used to. Also please pay attention to the weight fees those trucks pay yearly - upfront - with no refunds if the trucks end up being operated elsewhere.
Remember also that CalTrans must abide strictly by CEQA - Brown insisted. Of course when Brown wanted to build his choo choo train he claims he doesn't have to abide by CEQA.
On top of that, more and more of the money that used to be used for road repair and construction are siphoned off for other things such as 'budget balancing'.
Another reason for you lefties to pray that Hilary wins. Trump (or any other Rep) will cut California off from fed welfare. California's 'balanced' budget will fall apart like a soggy paper bag in a wind storm.

Todd Juvinall

ScottO has shown the ignorance of the Dozer troll. Thanks ScottO!

Jon Dozer

LOL, Todd. Unfortunately I made no comments on his subject of highways and CEQA. You done got the wrong progressive..:)

Jon Dozer

Todd, never lived in an urban area save a couple years in grad school. But thanks for those thoughts.
And I remained heartened that Nevada County is strong majority Dem and NPP. The GOP days of yore are over.

Onward!

Todd Juvinall

Not strong majority. I give your ilk credit for registering all those Bernie voters.

Scott Obermuller

"Overall, we have NOTHING in common with Siskiyou and Modoc Counties."
Jonnie - are you always this stupid or is this something you just write because your mommy told you to?
Oh please - go ahead and prove your point.
Remember - you said NOTHING.
Ball's in your court. And this from the troll that was lecturing us about absolutes.
It really bites when you're too 'whatever' to keep track of your past utterances.

Jon Dozer

I repeat, for the benefit of the Idaho resident-

We have nothing in common with Modoc and Siskiyou County.


Good night Idaho Scotty. :)

Jon Dozer

Todd, 2/3 Dem and NPP is a strong majority.

Thanks.

Todd Juvinall

What do you mean? They grow the ganga just like you.

Jon Dozer

LOL. Good one Todd. Last grow I think was in a dorm closet, more than 35 years ago, 3000 miles from here.

But since you want to continue the comparison between counties, I would like to ask Idaho Scotty to explain what we have in common with those wayward hinterlands way up there in the middle of nowhere. Scotty, the floor is yours.

Scott Obermuller

Our little resident troll shines once again. Makes another inane and indefensible statement and can't even try to back it up. Oh well - trolls gotta be trolls.
Still, he gives us a look into the workings of his sort of folk. He seems to have no core beliefs beyond various good feelings and intentions du jour.
Any ideas or beliefs that are outside of his understanding get slapped away with whatever name calling comes to mind. I pity him for his fear of what his small mind can never seem to grasp.

jon smith

Since Kamala Harris swept Nevada County, how are we, "in the hinterlands", not being represented?

Todd Juvinall

Well let's see. She is from San Francisco as were all the rest as I recall. Where is that Trinity County candidate? Jeeze.

Russ Steele

THE ARROGANCE OF ONE-PARTY GOVERNMENT IN CALIFORNIA: “The California state Senate voted 28-8 Wednesday to exempt itself from the pointless gun-control laws that apply to the rest of the populace. Legislators apparently think they alone are worthy to pack heat on the streets for personal protection, and the masses ought to wait until the police arrive.”

It is time for these political hacks to get a reality lesson! What makes them so special? Being elected to the State Senate make you a Duke or a Dutchess.

fish

Your democratic Vice Presidential candidate.......Elizabeth Warren.......(Crowd Roars)!


http://truthfeed.com/shock-video-2004-elizabeth-warren-describes-hillary-as-a-corporate-donor-puppet/6677/


Could anybody provide greater entertainment value than this crew!

Jon Dozer

Scott is utterly unable to explain what he have in common with Modoc and Siskiyou County. Can't you even take a shot at it, Scotty? Guess not.

Answer: Nothing.

Next topic..

Todd Juvinall

Now why would it be ScottO's job to tell you that? I think it is a lot to ask someone to waste their time talking to a troll. So move on troll.

George Rebane

Re Tamala Harris' votes from our community, in what sense did she 'sweep' Nevada County? Her ascendancy to the Senate will guarantee that our foothills will get at least six more years of neglect and punishment.

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 11 June 2016 at 10:17 AM

More neglect than punishment...she's probably being groomed to be the female version of President Chair Warmer.

George Rebane

fish 1120am - oh were it only 'neglect'. Nevada County is a hunk of the Sierra with world-class beauty and climate, ideally located between the coast and Reno. It is the hidden Bel-Air of the successfully retired who are not yet ready for assisted living, offering culture, comfort, and recreation beyond what flatlanders can imagine. It takes active levels of government (federal, state, and local) working in concert to keep our county from growing into an economic power house and on the edge of destitution. And now we have the critical mass of transfer payment sucking progressives here to support all of leviathan's pernicious prescriptions and proscriptions.

Todd Juvinall

SAhe is a hottie though. LOL!

Boxer won her first seat by having stalkers trail old Bruce and saw him coming out of a strip club. Now the only way you can win in California is if you are going in as a LGBT. My how things have changed.

Paul Emery

Here's a link to the County map showing how precincts voted on Measure W. The only major support came from Wildwood, Lake of the Pines and Alta Sierra. Nevada City, Truckee and Grass VAlley were 60-40-no.

the only supporters seem to be retired folks who are not affected by the economy. Mine was a quick glance so allow for errors. Go to the measure W click on the page.

https://gis.nevcounty.net/electionresults/#

Paul Emery

Kudos to the Sheriffs department for busting large growers in the last couple of days. He says he's going to concentrate on large grows now that Measure W flopped.

http://www.theunion.com/news/22412872-113/multiple-pot-gardens-eradicated

Jon Dozer

Todd, what do Modoc and Siskiyou Counties have in common with Nevada County?

jon smith

GR 6/11 10:17

"Re Kamala Harris' votes from our community, in what sense did she 'sweep' Nevada County?"

Looks like a pretty clean sweep to me. Unless everyone voted at gunpoint it looks like she is the overwhelming choice among Nevada County voters. How else would you have us choose our representatives?

https://gis.nevcounty.net/electionresults/#

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