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« Delegitimizing Trump | Main | Scattershots – 6may17 (updated 8may17) »

03 May 2017

Comments

Paul Emery

Interesting George that you make no comment on Trumps proposed tax cuts and what that might mean to the deficit. As I recall you are a supporter of a balanced budget. Are you comfortable that economic growth will compensate for the loses in tax dollars as a result of Trumps proposal? Will you support increased deficit if economic growth does not match loses?

Bill Tozer

Please Paul, try to stay on topic. Those with a mere 6th grade grade reading comprehension level can grasp the fact that this entire post is about CA's problems, from literally potholes on PCH to expensive regulations affecting our unaffordable housing with unappealing stack and pack as the only housing options for millions.

Trump's budget? Are we taking about the price of tea in China or just apples and oranges, or bob and weave rope-a-dope stuff. As you know, CA must balance its own budget because the states can't print money....by law.
The slow moving train wreck of the horrid state of disrepair of CA's neglected highways, bridges, dams, and byways is no secret. It's become glaringly as well as painfully obvious. Newer (more) taxes usually in the guise to fix something are more often than not end up ultimately in the general fund to mask targeted tax revenues diverted to pay for the unfounded pension liabilities. And don't get me started on the growing "weep hole" friggin leak half way up the face of the Oroville Dam coming from the reservoir side or the fact that 18% of our State's budget now goes to housing, feeding, helping, and incarcerating illegal aliens who are here illegally. CA is the topic.

Now Punchy, try it again. Focus my good man, focus.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iokKq1VUrE

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: PE @ 10:23

" Trumps proposed tax cuts and what that might mean to the deficit."

Just imagine how quickly you could pay off the deficit with a 100% tax rate, it would be miraculous.

It seems to me that Saint Obama and his merry men left so many timebombs...perpetual 0% interest rates, a thoroughly riled up Middle East (as if Iraq and Afghanistan weren't enough) and the crash and burn of the ACA unless a whole lotta huge new checks got cut...that there won't be all that much wiggle room in a Trump-era administration.

About all that has been added to the mix is the tiniest glimmer of hope that immigration law will be enforced. Maybe that's enough.

Hang on, another good deed got done by the political sea change. It managed to smoke out the real motives of the non-deplorables and properly identify them. For one thing it's now obvious, even to the dimmest citizen, that traditional MSM media is totally in the bag for the Green Libertarians.

Scott Obermuller

I had to laugh at Darrell Berkheimer's opinion piece in the Union about the amount of money he had to pay at DMV to register his pickup truck vs what he'd paid in Montana.
Darrell seems like a nice enough sort of good natured lefty operating in the usual sort of fact-free lefty way. Normally he extols the wonder of a socialized govt, but like most of the leftward leaners, once his own wallet is being hosed in real time to pay for the people's republic he suddenly gets all cranky-like.
Among the few folk not on welfare to actually move to Kalifornia, he dreamed of great weather, lots of cheap labor illegals, and a halo of good intentions as a card carrying lefty.
One would think he had done his due diligence before making his move. I know that I spent time visiting web sites dedicated to the various differences in tax structures and rates of the sundry states I was considering moving to. Of course, there is no perfect and the state that has a good deal for me may not have the best deal for you.
If you have no money, no education, no skills, no job and no care for following any rules beyond supporting/voting Democrat, Kalifornia is the dream state, for sure.
Pot holes in the road will be the least of your worries pretty soon.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

These lesson is simple enough, if you are in a state which is big on rules and cash extraction, you'd best be a member of a well organized self-interested group. There's a reason that the teacher's union benefits while pickup truck owners pay.

On another matter, I really enjoy how fast the internet has made a news cycle.

This morning:

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/123933076

This afternoon:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/documents-indicate-emmanuel-macron-may-be-engaging-tax-evasion

If it's true, it'll never make it to CNN since they have a dog in this fight.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

'These lesson' geesh. 'The lesson'.

Paul Emery

Well Bill and Scenes it seems the overall topic of this post is fiscal responsibility in government so it's a natural extension of the conversation to ask if you believe economic growth will more than or at least compensate to the lost revenues due to Trumps tax cuts. If it doesn't in your view is it acceptable to increase the national debt to pay the difference?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 May 2017 at 03:42 PM


What do you think Paul?

Paul Emery

I don't claim to be an economist but I've read that it's doubtful there will be enough growth to compensate. Here's a quote from Fox Business:

"Alan Cole, an economist at the right-leaning Tax Foundation, calculates that the corporate tax cuts alone would lower government revenue by $2 trillion over 10 years. That would require growth to accelerate nearly a full percentage point, to 2.8 percent a year, from its current level. Yet Cole forecasts that growth would increase only 0.4 percent-percentage point? annually.

Other economists say that if the cuts balloon the deficit, the jump in government borrowing would swell interest rates and make it harder for businesses and households to borrow and spend.

Ethan Harris, chief global economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch, says such a "crowding out" effect can cancel out any benefits to the economy."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/04/26/trump-tax-cut-huge-vague-and-likely-mild-boost-for-economy.html

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 May 2017 at 04:11 PM


Following that rationale I assume that you've been most upset with the same phenomenon occurring under the auspices of existing fed and Obamanomics policy?

George Boardman

Hey boys, it's time to start checking out the real estate in Nevada, Idaho and other scenic locations. If Trump gets his way, you won't be able to deduct your state income tax and property tax from your reportable federal income.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence the proposal will hit hardest in those states that voted for Hilary Clinton.

Russ

Back to the topic:

From the Sac Business Journal:

A lack of housing isn’t just a problem for the construction and real estate industries, according to Joel Kotkin, a presidential fellow in urban futures at Chapman University in Orange.

On a statewide scale, it also threatens to turn California into a majority renter state, and push many middle-class residents — particularly millennials — to move elsewhere, he said in a presentation to California Association of Realtors members at a conference Tuesday at the Sacramento Convention Center. Here are other intriguing pieces of his research and presentation.

1. “Whatever we’re doing policywise is making it much worse,” Kotkin said, especially at the state level, where regulation and environmental policy limit where housing is built and how much is built.

2. Among the state’s largest metropolitan statistical areas, Sacramento gained 10 percent in net migration from 2000 to 2015, while larger ones largely lost people.

3. Though many growth policies favor high-density housing and many urban experts believe it’s where market demand is going, surveyed millennials favor homeownership in suburban locations, Kotkin said. The percentage who favor an urban lifestyle, 10 to 15 percent of all adults, has stayed consistent for decades.

4. Rather than emphasize transit as a way to limit greenhouse gasses, policymakers should emphasize working at home, which is far more efficient, he said.

5. Other policy prescriptions would involve converting redundant, existing commercial spaces into housing; reform of regulations to favor middle-class housing for families; developing higher paying employment centers closer to where people live; and creating a transportation system for the 21st century, such as rideshare, over what he called 19th century transportation systems, such as buses and rail.

6. “You’ve got to have new houses that are built on the periphery of cities,” he said, adding California is far from running out of land. “It’s the only way to make it affordable.”

http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2017/05/03/housing-expert-build-or-say-goodbye-to-millennials.html

Paul Emery

Trump is supposed to make things better not worse Fish. That's why he was elected I understand. Should we further go into debt to finance Trump Tax Cuts Fish?

fish

Posted by: George Boardman | 03 May 2017 at 04:29 PM


Well George.....you were an Obama voter if I'm not mistaken. Remember his maxim.....that "elections have consequences"!

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 May 2017 at 04:34 PM

Should we further go into debt to finance Trump Tax Cuts Fish?


Philosophically I wouldn't think so.....but regardless of whether or not the Trump tax cuts are implemented the debt will continue to grow!

Don Bessee

GB @ 429- It may also mean that folks in CA start caring who much grandpa jerry is in their wallets when state tax becomes a real expense. That could have all kids of repercussions going forward. ;-)

Gregory


The problem is spending, not debt and the last effective Speaker who got that under control was hounded out of office on unfounded charges.

Perhaps someone will turn Ryan into a Newt.

The one party state which art in Sacramento will not rule forever. Patience, grasshoppers.

Scott Obermuller

G Boardman at 4:29 "I'm sure it's just a coincidence the proposal will hit hardest in those states that voted for Hilary Clinton."
Well - yes and no.
The idea that folks from low/no state income tax states were subsidizing folks from high tax states at the fed level has bothered a lot of conservatives long before Hilary ever ran for anything. So, yes - coincidence.
The concept that people that live in high tax states tend to vote for Dems (hence Hilary) ends up costing them if this fed tax deduction goes away is then also not a coincidence.
Of course if the fed deduction goes away, Kalifornia is awash with democracy, so the guys and gals in Sacto can quickly lower the state income tax rates - right?

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: state income tax deductions,etc. ...The standard deduction is also going to increase. View it as an increase in the marginal tax rate for upper earners.

re: What's the 'right' tax rate for increasing fed revenue. ...Dunno. You'll probably get a fake Nobel prizes in economics if you can work that one out.

re: 'Red' states supporting 'blue' states. ...It's probably best to view it as a form of imperialism. Blue states own productive assets while the worker bees in the hinterland toil in the factories. There's a lot of money on the coasts, but too much of it is in the FIRE business and in control of the colonies in the interior.

Given the large percentage of government outlay that is contained in entitlement programs, public pension plans, etc., all of which form a kind of political third rail, my own bet is for a bond market explosion and currency crisis at some point. Political party of the President will not matter

Todd Juvinall

George Boardman | 03 May 2017 at 04:29 PM

What is it about the liberals that when we dissent they suggest we move? That is a very consustent attitude. I would use their idea to encourage them, GeorgeB and his pal the FUE etal, to move to another country. Maybe North Korea. Since they really like authoritarian leaders and rules. And high taxes. So go getum!

George Rebane

A big progressive pothole that ails California is actually endemic across the land, and afflicts both the high and low brows of the progressive pundit pantheon. Nationally we witness the outrage at ex-WSJ columnist Bret Stephens' first contribution at NYT on climate change - a very balanced and considerate piece examining the question. That it didn't hew to the True Believers' mantras gave them cause to call for his immediate removal from the newspaper. More here -
https://judithcurry.com/2017/05/02/nyes-quadrant/

The local liberal low brows ape their national betters by calling for the similar silencing of those of us who don't march in lockstep with their looney tunes now playing out in California; or is it Kalifornia?

Bill Tozer

Kalifornication.

Paul Emery

Todd

Okay using that line of thinking (your 6:36) renews my encouragement of you relocating in Modoc County which will remain a solid Red County since Nevada County will soon be certified Blue. Lots of gun lovers up there and no pesky environmentalists to spoil your day.

Russ

Middle Class must be Higher Priority for California Leaders

For years, economists, business leaders and policymakers warned that the decline in blue-collar manufacturing jobs in California would leave us with a shrinking middle class, limited economic mobility and a plethora of social ills traditionally equated with systemic poverty.
A recent report by the Los Angeles Economic Development Corporation demonstrates that those warnings have become a reality.

Since 2007, the loss of our manufacturing base has cost Los Angeles nearly 89,000 good-paying middle-class jobs. Those jobs have been replaced with service-sector jobs that pay less than half of the jobs they replaced. At the same time, Los Angeles County has seen poverty rates climb, the middle class shrink, housing affordability grow beyond the grasp of working people, and homelessness hit crisis proportions. Our “middle class” is slipping away into a world of haves and have-nots.

http://www.foxandhoundsdaily.com/2017/05/middle-class-must-higher-priority-california-leaders/

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery | 03 May 2017 at 08:16 PM

You reading skills are quite in need of help. I would prefer to stay here as this is my home. You flatlanders have wrecked the place so bad that people do giv up and leave. You belong in the Haight Ashbury where Nancy Pelosi would be your rep and SF is a sanctuary city to hide your illegal pals. I have never owned a gun but I do know self defense. And now that Trump is President he reflects my postions on exposing the fake eco's and the lies of "climate change" and all that. As far as the county registration. You had a blip with MJ registrations which will now be purged and the balance will be restored as a R hegmony here.

Bill Tozer

Boardman from behind the walls of guarded gated community tells others outside in the hinterlands they should move...move farther security parameter in whence he dwells. Sweet, nuff said.
What is it with these intolerate CA liberals?

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1079480665519303/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

OMG, the debt!! I don't recall any canidate giving the debt or deficient anymore than lip service during the recent election. It wasn't a campaign issue for some odd reason.

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10154675465965914/?type=3&theater

That Trump is something else. When there is a will, there is a way.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/844040002412890/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1080314658769237/?type=3&theater

fish

Soon California.......soon!


"Collections from state income tax collapsing despite tax hikes"



http://wtnh.com/2017/04/28/income-tax-revenue-collapses-malloy-says-taxing-the-rich-doesnt-work/

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: BT @ 11:33

"Boardman from behind the walls of guarded gated community tells others outside in the hinterlands they should move"

I wonder sometimes who keeps giving George 'Get Offa My Lawn' Boardman the talking stick. You might as well just write down some rant you hear in a bar.

It's interesting watching Obamacare melt down (as expected). I really do wonder what the endgame will be.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/obamacare-implosion-iowa-wont-have-healthcare-access-2018-last-major-provider-pulls-
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-aetna-virginia-idUSKBN17Z2CS
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/31/anthem-likely-to-retreat-from-obamacare-for-2018-analysts-say/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/health/humana-plans-to-pull-out-of-obamacares-insurance-exchanges.html?_r=0

You can argue that it's all a negotiation ploy, but since it really affects only a subset of people (non-poor, under 65, don't get health insurance from an employer, actually buy insurance, etc.) I don't really know how much of a fire will get lit to do anything one way or the other. It's similar to the way in which gun owners and pickup truck drivers (to pick two) can get messed with by the state since they aren't well represented.

One thing that I just thought about will be the uproar over pre-existing conditions. A lot of people came out of the woodwork and were more honest in their dealings with the health industry, are now on record has having issues, and the rules may well change back to the old ways. I keep wondering when (they may already have done this) insurers will buy personalized private information on peoples' web searches for medical issues. It would be a good way to smoke out those damn sick people.

George Rebane

re fish 822am - It continues to intrigue me why so many people dun the Laffer Curve. The rationale behind Laffer's argument seems obvious and beyond reproach - lower an already low tax rate and you reduce govt revenues; increase an already high tax rate and you get the same effect because such high rates discourage risk taking for taxable profits and give rise to widespread tax avoidance heroics in the economy. Somewhere in the middle there is a 'goldilocks region' where govt revenues are at their highest. It was ever thus, but the Left's double dummies can't wrap their little minds around this natural human behavior (as they miss so many other obvious ways that people react to govt mandates, and are constantly surprised).

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 04 May 2017 at 09:16 AM


It's not just the Laffer Curve! There is plenty of empirical evidence (remember how important evidence is to the reality based lefty) that supports the hypothesis as well....much of it recent!

Class warfare is just so satisfying though!

fish

Posted by: ScenesFromTheApocalypse | 04 May 2017 at 09:02 AM

Have we heard any more about the illegal support of O-Dummy Care through the sweep of Fannie and Freddie mortgage profits......MSM remains mum on the issue!

Paul Emery

So George are you confident that the tax revenue from economic gain will compensate for the decline in tax revenue due to tax cuts?

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: GR

"Left's double dummies can't wrap their little minds around this natural human behavior "

Obviously tax policy also becomes a matter of 'fairness' and trying to drive some sort of policy. The Laws of Unintended Consequences are dominant, of course.

It seems to me that we'd be much better off if people spent a bit more time trying to understand market distortions (and why some people get so rich) and less trying to claw it back.

Todd Juvinall

Spending cuts and holding the line against an increase greater than inflation would balance the buget within a ferw years.

George Boardman

I continue to be amazed at the inability of Juvinall to comprehend anything written at a level above what a fourth grader would understand. I don't care if he or anybody else moves to Idaho or North Korea; just be prepared for a bigger federal tax bill if you stay in California courtesy of Trump.

As for Tozer's sneer about living in a gated community, he might be interested to know LOP is the most Republican precinct in the county. He'd find the place welcoming. Of course, he'd have to ditch the trailer. The Republicans who run the place have rules about that sort of thing.

I wasn't aware that Bret Stephens left The Wall Street Journal for The New York Times. That explains why I haven't seen him on Fox News in the morning recently--he went over to the enemy!

Bill Tozer

Well, higher taxes mean less in the government coffers over a couple years as people make adjustments. And adjust they do. Human nature is what it is. Lower taxes increases government revenues. Go figure. Long history of failed projections when taxes are raised and resulting in less greenbacks going into the treasury. It takes a couple years for the impact to be seen and documented. When Reagen cut taxes after 2 years in office, the effect was not felt until a couple years later...just before reelection time. And man o man, were records ever set and, of course, the Dems cannot ever ever ever stand to see a dollar sitting around that they weren't dying to spend. And spend they did. As an byproduct of the Reagen tax cuts, money poured into non profits at a rate which set records that were off the charts. Guess folks felt more charitable and in the giving mood when they got Uncle Sam off their backs.

Explaining this all to the uninformed is a waste of time. It takes too much time and precious energy to school the fake news types on what makes the world go round where the rubber meets the road. It's like they never heard of what we take for granted based on proven track records. Not enough hours in the day. Just be spinning your wheels. Reminds me of a Canadian police chase.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7L45qUFabR0

jon smith

TJ 10:37. Stroke of genius. Such a master of economics! How did you come up with this amazing theory Todd? Show us the numbers, please. You should demand that Trump appoint you to the Federal Reserve. You might make the cover of Time magazine. . . or maybe MAD magazine. What a dolt.

Todd Juvinall

George Boardman | 04 May 2017 at 10:57 AM

Amazing that your reading and understanding skills match my 6 year old grandaughters. You are not clever but you think you are. Tax increases by the FEDS? Seems like that is a liberal wet dream GeorgeB. Your pals here in California are doing your bidding, not the feds. I suggest you would be better suited to North Korea than the USA.

jon smith | 04 May 2017 at 11:13 AM
All you need to do is use that little used thing between your ears and you may learn something. Cut spending, and keep the budget from growing faster than inflation and in a few uears we have balance. Econ 101. But you don't even have that skill.

Bill Tozer

Boardman @ 10:57 am.
I thought LOP was in Placer County. Ok, technically it is not North Auburn despite iwhat it looks like and that technically that flatlander section is part of Nevada County. Nobody considers LOP part of the county, except those who live behind the guarded walls and tell the peasants what they should think. And the Sheriffs have to roll there, so it might be under Keith Royal's jurisdiction. Boy, Bear River HS when the built it was 1/2 the student body size of NU and had twice the police calls. Must be those urbanites coming up and trying to make that inferno zone be just like the urban crime infected neighborhoods back home. I would have 24/7 security too if I drew the short straw and was exiled to LOP to pay my debt to society. Still, it ain't really part of Nevada County when you get down to it.

But, I did like your article in The Union whining about the terrible back jarring roads you traveled on a recent trip. On and on you went about the gas tax money not fixing the horrible roads. I feel you pain. Hope you took your teeth out before your roadtrip. Left quite the impression with you. Just another liberal pothole.

jon smith

Todd do you have any sense of the size of our non discretionary spending liability? How would you suggest we stay ahead of inflation when our mandated spending is directly tied to inflation? "A few years?" to close the gap? Define "a few". Get your head out of Red Fish Blue Fish just long enough understand the simple ignorance of your plain Jane view of world economics.

Just for grins, would you suggest we cut spending where we spend the most and with the least amount of oversight . . . military and defense? Or is that not real money because it does not contribute to our GDP?

fish

Posted by: jon smith | 04 May 2017 at 11:52 AM


Just for grins, would you suggest we cut spending where we spend the most and with the least amount of oversight . . . military and defense? Or is that not real money because it does not contribute to our GDP?


We spend the most on non discretionary spending.....your social welfare programs.....with pitiful oversight! At least as bad as defense but almost certainly worse!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:CBO_Infographic_2016.png

Todd Juvinall

There is an estimated 100 BILLION in fraud and waste in just the Medicaid medicare. The "entitlements" eat up the bulk of the budget. I have not seen a increase in SSN for three years yet the fed budget is up susbstantially. So I and other have sacrifiecd for you Jonnie. The military should not be exempt from oversight. And they should be held accountable for waste fraud and abuse.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: Mr Fish @ 12:16

Another way to say the same thing:

http://i.cfr.org/content/publications/July2014/011_national_defense_1988.png

I always wonder why people think that defense spending is so huge a percent of the total. The funny thing is that you can trot out these charts and someone like jonsmith will continue to utter the same kind of theory a week later.

On another matter, given the AHCA partial passage, this might be a good time for Dr. Rebane to write (again) on health insurance. It's a good topic for conversation, and is far more interesting than hearing about Trump polls and all things Trumphate.

Paul Emery


Scenes:

For your reading pleasure Trump is -7.9 average of all major polls and does not lead in any polls. lowest in history and that's before the Trumpcare mess gets exposure. the Dems were cheering that such a piece or crap was voted by the Pubber House. The Senate will be a blast. Can't wait.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.htmlhttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html">http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html">http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.htmlhttp://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

Todd Juvinall

Still President. And doing a fine job.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: PE @ 12:47

The new bill appears to be a mess, as was the old one. New winners and losers. In the final analysis, everybody wants something for nothing.

It's a darned hard thing to write with the potential for too much in the way of iron rice bowl spillage, so I feel their pain.

Here's an assignment (when done with the poll Tourette's). How should a overall health plan work? Please avoid just pointing at some other country's setup that you don't understand (ie. I WAS IN DENMARK ONCE AND IT WAS REALLY GOOD THERE).

I don't expect Green Libertarians to actually be *for* something, simply trolling poor Dr. Rebane is probably it's own reward, but it's worth thinking about.

Paul Emery

Scenes:

Single payer with something like $3000 deductible so patients pay for their own nicks and scrapes and common ailments. Clinics such as Yuba Docs do a good job on the small stuff. Everybody pays into the insurance pool, no exceptions.

Something like that.

By the way in Denmark everybody pays in, no exceptions.

Paul Emery

Todd

He's not doing a fine job according to the majority of Americans.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery, don't care about your polls. He is doing a fine job. America is a better country.

Paul Emery

Todd, Perhaps you should move to a Trump County because it sure isn't Nevada County. Or better yet to a Trump State-Oklahoma, Texas? You'd be more welcome there. I don't think you're really appreciated here. People are always making fun of you.

Bill Tozer

Seems to me a "cut" in NATO spending would be a good start to look at saving a buck. Not a cut at all in reality. Just make NATO countries (like Germany) to pay up what they agreed to pay when they (most all of them) were begging for join the Alliance for protection. They have Welched on their word and the treaty they signed and we (the good guys) have been stuck picking up their slack. So, not a cut, just getting the others to pay their fair share. Is that too radical?? Hmmmm? If you're going to play you're going pay.

I was going to write what I wrote above at an earlier date on some topic about foreign policy or something, but just then the local Green Libertation Fake News dude rushed over here with his hair on fire screaming something about Trump forcing poor NATO countries to pay up money they can't afford!! Horrible thing Trump threw out there, just plumb unconscionable. They can't afford to pay for their party and pay for the needed security too!!

Looks like we are stuck paying for the European slackers so they can afford to play house, dress up, and make believe. Heck, that tiny next new NATO country has a standing army of 2,000 and we are sworn to defend them to the death...even if it means war with the Pinkos. Pinko Russia I mean, not the Pinkos from Berkley. Trump is a meanie alright as we all get screwed by the slackers. Nevermind. Facts stop where others' feeling start I reckon. And they ain't feeling like pulling their own weight.

Paul Emery

Is there another Green Libertarian here Bill? I don't recall writing about NATO.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery | 04 May 2017 at 01:47 PM

Why Paul Emery. you are the outlier, not me. Besides you moved here and I was born here. So maybe you need to move. Maybe North Korea? Trump is doing fine, today we saw a nice promise kept on ObamaCare repeal by the house and Trump. And some religious freedom EO's and more to come. We are taking America back from your ilk who drove it inyo the ground just like you all are doing to California. I have to stay and fight that. So if you pack your bags I will get you a bottled water for your trip.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: BT@1:50PM "Seems to me a "cut" in NATO spending would be a good start to look at saving a buck. "

Direct military contributions aren't really that much. Between 3 and 4 F-35s a year I think. Maybe an F-35 unit should be the new currency of defense calculations.

BTW, here's a quick rundown of a few Presidents deficit as a % of GDP during their reigns:

Trump 2.6%, 2.3%(est), 2.6%(est)
Obama 9.8%, 8.7%, 8.5% 6.8% 4.1%, 2.8%, 2.5%, 3.3%,
Bush 1.5%, 3.3%, 3.4%, 2.5%, 1.8%, 1.1%, 3.1%

the experiment in perpetual Keynesianism continues. Until the big entitlement programs (Veteran benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment benefits, and the rest of the rogue's gallery) get capped or reduced somehow, I'd say that eventual doom is certain.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: PaulE@1:25PM

"Single payer with something like $3000 deductible so patients pay for their own nicks and scrapes and common ailments. Clinics such as Yuba Docs do a good job on the small stuff. Everybody pays into the insurance pool, no exceptions."

See there, stating an opinion on something wasn't so hard.

So, how is it paid for? How much should people put in and through what mechanism (VAT? income tax? property tax?).

In the monopsony you've described, is medical care still privately run but with dictated reimbursement rates? Do doctors/hospitals/specialists get to opt out of your system and sell their services on the private market?

All I see in your sentence is a system that works like most privately bought plans but is magically paid for.

fish

I don't think you're really appreciated here. People are always making fun of you.

WOW....pot meet kettle!

You might consider emigrating as well Paul surely Denmark can use another Green Libertarian.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery is the butt of many jokes here in the area. His art is laughed at too. But I never toss that in his face. Liberals do though.

Bill Tozer

Punchy, you have forgotten more that you said than you will ever remember. Yep, you said it....a paraphrase, but the gist was Trump making NATO countries pay what they cannot afford. Trump and his puppet master Putin are joining forces to take over the oil and dump the sanctions! Putin will eat Trump alive! That concerns me!
Ok, I added the last part from your various....er....interesting comments and fake news hysteria analysis paralysis. . . that was when you went through your 24/7 two to three month Russia and his surrogate Trump hacked and hijacked the election. Yep, Putin did such a great job of influencing Hillary being kicked to the gutter where she belongs that Trump lost the majority vote by 3 million. Good job Vlady.
Glad that wacky "Yellow Sheets-Pence will be sworn in within a month, max" silly phase of your life is over. It got old reading the Huff-n-Puff Post or the Times and then checking out Rebane's site and Parrot Paul was squawking the same stuff word for word. Kinda of mundane and boring after 10 weeks.

But, that is all water under the bridge now. Do like the "do not recall defense." Who can argue with that? So, Paul, if you say you do not recall, I will give you the benefit of the doubt considering the diminished capacity you suffer on a daily basis. Life is not fair and some have a heavier burden to bear. Must be a tough road to hoe, Darn pitiful, but take heart. A winner never quits and quitter never wins. Forge on, Punchy.

Well, the sanctions are still in place, Trump made it over 100 days, and the "Putin colluded with Trump to steal the election" dark chapter has been put on the back burner for now. The only thing that remains is Trump Derangement Syndrome. Somethings stand the test of time.

Todd Juvinall

We all must remember Paul Emry is a conspiracy nut. He still believes there was another shooter on the grassy knoll. And other things. So, credibility is lacking in his spews.

Bill Tozer

There is a panarona of progressive potholes on the moon. California first!, then tax the other planets. Space: The Final Frontier to tax.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2017/05/04/california-considers-taxing-companies-to-the-moon-and-back/#65088279555f

Bill Tozer

Panorama of Progressive Potholes.
First, gotta give Punchy some credit where credit is due. He did publicly vow to NEVER vote Democrat or Republician ticket again. Never, ever, no way, no how. I agree. Most of us vowed to never vote for the Dems again. We are in agreement here, folks. A group hug moment. Paul got this one spot on:

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/844406752376215/?type=3&theater

More Progressive Potholes. This is an violation of the Espinoage Act....if anyone can recall....which is doubtful.

http://truepundit.com/fbi-director-comey-confirms-true-pundits-exclusive-thousands-of-classified-hillary-clinton-emails-on-weiner-laptop/?platform=hootsuite

The Clinton Machine just can't catch a break. Yet more Progressive Potholes:

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2017/05/03/huma-abedins-family-members-indicted-by-federal-grand-jury/

Still more panorama. I never seen anything like this in 30 years!

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/844637105686513/?type=3&theater

http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/plot-thickens-in-probe-of-bernie-sanders-wife?utm_source=FBLC&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=LC

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1081638361970200/?type=3&theater

Ok, you get the panaromic view. Time to be nice. May the Fourth be with you. May 4th joke of the day. You are free to use it. My free gift to you all as an unselfish act to giving back to the community. We must think constantly of others when living on the altruistic plane.....especially those who have suffered greatly among us.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1081466008654102/?type=3&theater

Paul Emery

Show me my quote Bill or shut up. You just made that up.

Paul Emery

Todd

Using your line of thinking we should all leave and give the land back to the Native Americans. Are you saying unless you were born here you have no right to be here?

jon smith

For one who hasn't been anywhere but Grass Valley his entire life, Todd sure seems to crow like he has life's plan in the palm of his so ignorant little hand. I guess there is something to be said about squatting on the same lump of dirt your whole life, but world view and wisdom don't enter the conversation.

Bill Tozer

Oh Paul, how rude. I am wounded. No, I did not make it up. And no, I ain't going to waste time digging through archives looking at the hundreds of silly unhinged frothing at the mouth comments your Trump Derangement Syndrome had generated. I will simply say if you don't recall or can't remember, "Yes, Paul, whatever you say."

Oh Punchy, I won't shut up. I am more than willing to discuss this horrible gross misunderstanding in the friendly confines of your shithole abode. A more private and relaxing setting, would you not agree? But, I won't shut up, you don't have the power to shut anyone up, and you ain't the boss of me! Carry on Punchy. You rock.

Whatever you say, Punchy, whatever you say.

Paul Emery

Look out Biker Bill starting to froth again. Once again I don't advise women to read this blog until he settles down Kind of a cycular thing. He gets challenged then reverts back to his roots which must've been hanging out in biker bars because that's the only place I hear language like that Used to play music in those joints
I am writing this from my "shit hole abode" using the language of Biker Bill
"

Don Bessee

WOW, take off to Truckee to give a speech and come back to find an overflowing sandbox and the 'jon' too. ;-)

Todd Juvinall

jon smith | 04 May 2017 at 04:57 PM
How low can a liberal go? I have never neen criticized for being born and raised here in Nevada County. And have it characterized as a bad thing. My my. What kind of loony tune thinks like that? Oh, fakery "Jon" does. I reality you are not very bright "jon" and to diss the place you live is really something else. I know a lot more about the issues than you ever could and am much more intelligent and handsome as well. You and Paul Emery should date you seem so compatible. Anyway, another liberal loon exposed by his own craziness.

Paul Emery, why would I leave my home and county? You came from elswhere and we let you stay. You shuld kiss my feet.

Bill Tozer

Darn Paul, you are too predictable. I knew you would say that, I just knew it. I could have wrote that script myself while multitasking. Paul, come on, you have a shithole abode. Like, it's no secret. But, a man's home is his castle and all that kind of stuff. Besides, home is where the heart is and is not competitive sport. Just calling a spade a spade. No worries, I have lived in worse when I was a starving artist. But, you hurt my fragile feelings. I don't know if I will ever recover. Quick, I need to find a safe place with hot cocoa and coloring books and pictures of puppies and therapists to make the bad juju go away. Make it go away.

Well, temps are dropping. Got to fire up old Betsy and cut the grass on the back forty. One should only do such tasks when the humidity levels increase (morning and evening) on hot days. Besides, everyone is thoroughly uninterested with our lovers quarrel. Totally lame and sooo boring. But, be my guest and get the last word in. Can't stop you anyway. I don't have the power.

Here is a bone for ya Paul. I recall you saying it, you don't. I could be wrong, could be right, could of, would of, should of...just how I recall it. You don't recall. All humans are fallable. See how easy that was. Now say, "I could be wrong". I know, you have never said "I could be wrong" or "I was wrong", but there is a first time for everything. Try in in your secret place sometime. Mum is the word.

Well. the chores are calling. Biker Bill is a good one. It don't quite fit, but you were not blessed with a creative imagination nor know the pleasure of coming up with one unique thought. Biker Bill works for me, but the real bikers in real biker bars with (like Libs) zero sense of humor might not take kindly to you putting bikers down. I dunno cause I don't drink or ever walk in to a bar, be it high class or no class. Just saying try to not splash mud on others when I be the target of your feigned outrage and justified anger. One never knows who reads this stuff. Later. Say predictable and never change at thing.

George Rebane

PaulE 1003am - You bet I fervently believe that that tax rate cuts will boost the economy and therefore increase state revenues at all levels. There simply is no alternative - no economy has taxed itself into prosperity, but dozens have taxed themselves into poverty, ruin, and revolution.

Bill Tozer

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1082267018574001/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/844940522322838/?type=3&theater

fish

Cognitive dissonance......not just for Former Union Editors.....but their moronic late night talk show quoting sock puppets as well!


Chip Wilder says:

May 5, 2017 at 8:04 am

Seth Meyers: “House Republicans today voted on and passed an Obamacare replacement bill without knowing how much it would cost. Though I’m not surprised — they also voted on an Obama replacement without knowing the cost.“Look how happy those old white guys are. I guess they’re just happy they finally passed something that wasn’t a kidney stone. No longer covered, by the way. Some Republicans right now are just outright admitting they did not read the bill that they voted on, a bill that would reorganize one-sixth of the American economy. ( Rep. Tom Garrett ‘I don’t think any individual has read the whole bill, that’s why we have staff.’) That’s right. Your elected official didn’t read the bill””

Jimmy Fallon: “Today the House voted to pass the Republican health-care bill before taking an 11-day recess. They said they’re going to use the break to kick back, relax and finally read the bill they just voted for.”

Noah: “Republicans passed this bill without an official scoring of its costs from the Congressional Budget Office, so the true effects of the bill could be anything. Your baby could have to do its own C-section from the inside. You don’t know.”


Really.....no quote from Nancy "We have to pass it to know what's in it" Pelosi?


/shocked face!

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Here's a graphic showing the outcomes for the new healthcare bill.

http://kff.org/interactive/tax-credits-under-the-affordable-care-act-vs-replacement-proposal-interactive-map/

I imagine the biggest uproar will be with older people (but too young to take advantage of that highly subsidized thing called Medicare) who don't make a lot of money. Depending on the county, I'm seeing upwards of 70% of income being used to buy health insurance for 60+ under $30k in taxable earnings. Of course, they won't buy insurance at all since eating is the Prime Directive.

It should be interesting.

Bonnie McGuire

Fish 8:29
Thanks for the reminder regarding how Congress votes. It would be real funny if it didn't cost we the people so much for punishing us. Here's what Senator Rand Paul had to say (during 2012) about our Congree not even reading the proposed laws before they pass them.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/svGDZOW-brA?rel=0

Todd Juvinall

Just posted on my FB groups site. It is everywhere.

"Carol Bentley‎
to
Nevada County Debates
19 mins ·

I just got a reality check of how greedy the government is. I do not care if you are conservative or liberal, there is so much unfair taxing in this country it is unreal. I am on a fixed income and barely making it so am selling property I have owned in OR for over 30 years. The sad reality of this sale is that 15% goes to OR, 15% goes to Ca and 15% to feds. So what have they ever done that they deserve almost half of the value of the sale? I paid the property taxes on it and am not making a skyrocket profit but good old government seems to have a right to everything and not help anyone improve themselves because of their greed. It is so sickens me it is beyond belief. There is no reason that I should be taxed to death on this property but of course I have no recourse - I probably would if I were an illegal immigrant since so many funds go to support them instead of me and the sad thing is my taxes on this property are going to pay for the illegals in these two liberal states. Yes, I am angry!"

Bill Tozer

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1082370101897026/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

Let's see. Anybody got an idea for a new name? Hmmm. How about GL...

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10154681572305914/?type=3&theater

Healthcare: Premiums hitting 50k/year in Alaska. Destroying our healthcare system, destroying our economy, and destroying a family's finances, whether it is Obamacare or Trumpcare. Now this Liberal millstone that is a death sentence for families is hung on the R necks and we get all the blame. 100% of the death spiral. Typical.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1082548548545848/?type=3&theater

Bernie speaks!
https://www.facebook.com/PeopleForBernie/photos/a.1657630031123871.1073741829.1645816202305254/1987241208162750/?type=3&theater

Oh, BTW. Today is the 42nd Anniversary of the Vietnam (Nam) war. No mention in the Alt-Left news. Carry on......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynY2begPzoM

Scott Obermuller

Another bit of great news, California - here's where your tax dollars go.
Warning to middle of the roaders, green libertarians and whatever else you lefties like to call yourselves: This commentary contains facts, reason and big numbers.
http://reason.com/archives/2017/05/05/bullet-train-myopia-driving-local-transi

fish

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 06 May 2017 at 07:50 AM


Nice!


Your money quote......and a moment of rare honesty from a democrat!


"As former Assembly speaker and San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown wrote in the San Francisco Chronicle in 2013, referring to the cost-overrun-laden Transbay Terminal in San Francisco: "If people knew the real cost from the start, nothing would ever be approved. The idea is to get going. Start digging a hole and make it so big, there's no alternative to coming up with the money to fill it in."


Paul Emery

Bill writes:

"Now this Liberal millstone that is a death sentence for families is hung on the R necks and we get all the blame. 100% of the death spiral.

You got it right this time Bill. Trumpcare will never fly but he was desperate for a "win" and now it'off to the Senate where it's DOA.

Healthcare is the Afghanistan of domestic politics. Easy to get in, impossible to get out.

Todd Juvinall

It is SOP on these laws. The House sends their version over to the Senate and they rip and tear and change and then if passed a conference is then called. Happens on almost every bill. I am happy to see them trying to do some good and save us from ObamaCare and all its failings. But the left and the dememoncrats will obfuscate every waking moment and send out their fake news so fake newsmaen can report their fake news.

Paul Emery

What is the fake news on this story Todd? Can you be specific?

Todd Juvinall

Most of your hyperbole.

Don Bessee

All the dem talking points po' ol' PE! ;-)

Paul Emery

So Don ALL the Repubs talking points are right and ALL the Dem talking points are wrong according to you.

Todd Juvinall

You are putting words in DonB's mouth. He never said all the R's Tp's were right. Where did you get that?

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: BillT@7:22PM

"Healthcare: Premiums hitting 50k/year in Alaska. "

So, see, the problem here is that we haven't instituted that plan where everyone has a $3k deductible and goes to Yubadocs for the small stuff and is all paid for by the Koch brothers.

Bill Tozer

Ah, I see I have not missed anything. Carry on. Something's stand the test of time.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-sVlZ_SaKnk

Bill Tozer

Ah, what a pararoma of progressive Potholes.

The budget:
https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/rpp.51560645913/10154681574125914/?type=3&theater

How about a fairness tax! Money quotes:

1) But the mayor has updated the plan after the staff of the mayor’s office told him that the tax would actually disproportionately fall on poor minorities, who have higher rates of soda consumption than white residents.

2) According to Reason, taxing diet drinks has become “an issue of equality” to the mayor because they more likely to be consumed by “upper middle class white people” and therefore must be taxed as a way to fight “white privileged institutionalized racism.”

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/seattle-mayor-adds-diet-drinks-to-his-soda-tax-to-tackle-white-privilege/?mod=sm_fb_post


Scott Obermuller

Tozer 9:01 - Don't tell the Kali Krew. Pretty soon they'll tax logic and reason.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Pretty wild. The Green Libertarians appear to be pushing matters a bit.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/facebook-suspends-30000-french-accounts-10-days-election-attempt-censor-le-pen-supporters/

George Rebane

ScottO 907pm - indeed they will since that also is the last and exclusive redoubt of the Right's resistance to leftwing lunacy from which logic and reason has long been absent. Whatever falls in the preponderance of the Right must be vigorously taxed and regulated.

Bill Tozer

Mr O @ 9:07 pm

Far from France here in the States, Facebook has mysteriously removed the 'like' option on Conservative stories from some conservative/libertarian/Deplorable sites. There is an open letter to FB on one siite (that I sometimes post their memes here, but not often) asking FB to stop removing stories and the actual website from the search engines as their following has also mysteriously dropped from 3 million views to one million a day...out of the blue. Good thing I have whatever they are called in my favorites. It a great mystery I tell ya.

The times they are a'changing.

https://www.facebook.com/LikeLibertarian/photos/a.710952698921561.1073741825.216213438395492/1742085292474958/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

Opps. My 10:04 pm was in response to Scenes's 9:36 pm. Kinda sorry Scott and Apocalypse.....but it was all James Comey's fault. Ok, I was wrong and that makes me feel sorry. Time to go eat worms, I reckon.

Paul Emery

George re: 9:40 PM

Does that mean that the legal cultivation of MJ qualifies as a policy that " Falls in the preponderance of the Right must be vigorously taxed and regulated."

It will be the most taxed and regulated consumer item in our history before our Liberal State government is done with it.

George Rebane

PaulE 1203pm - Have no idea how you connect your question to my 940pm. However, the question per se does do its best to corroborate the point of my 940pm. Was that your intent?

fish

UH OH! Quick.....get the marketing department on the line!


GLOBAL TEMPERATURES PLUMMET.....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/06/another-arctic-ice-panic-world-temperatures-plummet/

Bill Tozer

Question of the day: Doesn't the 'B' in LGBT make inference to only two genders?
What a bunch of progressive Potholes. Man, they have some really big Potholes.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1083876998413003/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1083138045153565/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1083624371771599/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

Duh, we are know you ain't no Progressive Pothole Snowflake Loser, young lady. First clue is the armpit hair is neither braided nor looks like an oversized Brillo pad. In fact, it's shaved and your appearance is most presentable. I am impressed. You go girl. A lady got to do what a lady gotta do. We harbor no ill will.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/844933005656923/?type=3&theater

My Gal is back and looking fine. HRC in 2020!!

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1081990231935013/?type=3&theater

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