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« Great Divide – 25jun17 Update | Main | Sandbox - 27jun17 »

26 June 2017


Scott Obermuller

The original reason for George's post has now been completely discredited. We find the Dems and Obama claiming they knew all about what Russia was up to long before the election and Obama claimed he personally put a stop to it by telling Putin to "cut it out". After the election, the Dems cooked up a scheme to try to deny Trump's election legitimacy by claiming that Russia had some how skewed the results through devious means. It appears this story has as much truth as the BS story about a protest march 'getting out of hand' in Benghazi. Light thinkers on the left suck these stories straight up into their tiny brains as a paper towel absorbs water on the counter top. Probably the largest contentious issue facing Trump (and the other Euro leaders) in their dealings with Russia is Russia's stated intent to lay claim to most of the area around the North Pole. That this area is not a land mass is of no never mind in our modern world. That area is apparently (I have no expertise here) rich in oil and other ores and minerals. It is also an area of strategic importance militarily. It is also an area that requires an enormous expenditure of resources and capital to maintain a permanent presence.
Russia has their warm water seaport back thanks to a blatant invasion of a neighboring sovereign country that was largely ignored by the UN and the rest of the world.
Much of Europe is dependant on natural gas piped in from Russia. Falling prices of raw petroleum stocks and natural gas has been seen by Russia as a result of "hostile" actions by the USA. (Russia's words). The US's continued increase in crude oil production is now our best non-military weapon to weaken the Russians as well as other countries that are unfriendly to the US. I would recommend our govt's full on support for our countries oil exploration and extraction. Flood the world with American petroleum and we do more to smite our enemies in a non-militaristic way as well as increase our nation's coffers with foreign money. Or at least we slow down the outflow of our money to folks that are not necessarily our friends.
And then there is China and their on-going (decades long) attempted and completed expansions into other countries that needs to be countered but that is another post.

Paul Emery


well written opinion George. Don't you think it gives Putin comfort to know that Trump refuses to accept the fact that the Russians hacked into various components of our voting system and distributed stolen emails to Wikileaks to try to influence American voters to support Trump, which is established fact throughout the American intelligence community under both the Trump and Obama administrations?


The BS never ends. Paul, give it a rest.

"that the Russians hacked into various components of our voting system"
Which components did they actually break into, Paul? Not "potential" hacks, actual break ins. And why, after a claimed Russian hack, did the DNC refuse access to their computer(s) requested by the FBI to gather evidence?

It's time for Obama to be called to Congress to testify, under oath, about what he thought he knew about Russian actions (including who told him what) and why he didn't move on them at the time, waiting nearly a year to fess up.

Don Bessee

It seems the po' ol' party parrot has yet to see the CNN producer admitting that the Russia narrative is total bullshit and that there is no evidence. Its ok fakenewsman, no one listens to you anyway. ;-)

George Rebane

PaulE 1138am - There's no evidence that the Russians hacked into any component of our voting systems (unless you have a new definition of 'voting system'). And I am very happy to have learned of Hillary's illegal activities with her private email servers no matter who made that known to the American public. Moreover, I am doubly pleased that Wikileaks published those damning emails of Crooked Hillary, no matter from whom they received them. Are you not also pleased to have learned of those things, or do they somehow not count if the wrong source reveals them? And are you not also pleased that in the process of all this we discovered/confirmed that Russia has the ability to do such things and will continue doing them unless we counter?


GR "In the meantime, we should do all possible to minimize their meddling in our affairs and maximize our ability to meddle in theirs"

Yes, but even though we might want the tools to meddle in theirs, we shouldn't.

GR "Stopping criminal leftwing leakers in our security services would be a good place to start"

Emphatic YES to that. Not just leftist leakers but they are by far the most numerous at the moment. In fact, I can't quite remember the last leak from the Right saw the light of day.

Todd Juvinall

Looks like to news cabal is starting to unravel. The American people, me included say give Trump a chance to implement. I did the same for Obama. But if the press keeps ot up it could backfire as Americans support the underdog and the press is piling on and making him so.

Russia never got into the county elections systems. There is no proof. And almost every county has a different one. But I do have a solution for the future. Go back to 100% paper ballots. I am quite jittery on the use os computer screens.

Paul Emery

For Gregory:

Paul Emery


thanks for confirming that the Russians took advantage of stolen emails to influence our election to their favor. You're gratitude to the Russians is startling.

Todd Juvinall

How did they influence the election? Tell us please what exactly that was.

Paul Emery


Are you saying that the release of the stolen emails from the DNC had no influence?


for paul 124

After reading that NSA report (again), tallying the number of computers that might have been successfully spear-phished, it may have been as low as one (or zero, since they only assumed it was at least one near the top of page 3 because the exercise was repeated to more targets... not exactly convincing). And that was an individually used computer, being used to read email.

Paul, your problem seems to be a lack of understanding and willingness to believe the story they want you to believe.


pe 129

"thanks for confirming that the Russians took advantage of stolen emails to influence our election to their favor"

Paul, that's not what GR wrote.

"You're [sic] gratitude to the Russians is startling"

Paul, trying to arguing rationally with you is startlingly akin to trying to keep a large octopus in a too-small bucket.

Assange has been unwavering in his claim the Wikileaked emails were not provided by Russians and unlike most of the national Democrats, Assange hasn't lied to us through wikileaked documents.

Paul Emery


So in your view if there is an attempt to commit a crime and it is unsuccessful there is no crime, right?

Paul Emery


The report states clearly that Russian General Intelligence Directorate executed cyber espionage operations to obtain information on election related software and hardware solutions to .......(paraphrased)

Their success ratio is irrelevant to the question that what is important is their intent, which is to influence our elections.

What you are saying is if I attempt to rob a bank and fail there is no crime.

As far as Assange goes you take him for his word for some unexplained reason. Trump CIA head Mike Pompeo says this about him:

"“WikiLeaks walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence service. It has encouraged its followers to find jobs at CIA in order to obtain intelligence... And it overwhelmingly focuses on the United States, while seeking support from anti-democratic countries and organisations,” said Pompeo.

“It is time to call out WikiLeaks for what it really is – a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like Russia.”

Amazing that you support his statement.

George Rebane

PauleE 126pm - "thanks for confirming that the Russians took advantage of stolen emails to influence our election to their favor. You're gratitude to the Russians is startling."

For readers with a smidgen of functioning logic, your concluding that I have anywhere "confirmed" that the Russians have "influenced" is truly startling. I've lost count of the number of times I've tried to dissuade of that, but nothing reasonable sticks. You assemble notions, ideas, and facts in a way characteristic of the devoted Left, and that is why attempting to live under a unified system of governance is so difficult that it has become an historic national schism. Happy trails to the Great Divide.

So far my post's concluding hope has yet to be realized.

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery, please tell us how the Russians influenced the election. Please provide your evidence. And the extent of that interference.


"So in your view if there is an attempt to commit a crime and it is unsuccessful there is no crime, right?"

Paul, the issue was what did the Russkies do that threw the election to Trump. Go ahead and charge in absentia some unnamed Russian hacker with attempted espionage but don't expect any real action.

Assange may well be a sociopath but again, wikileaks has a track record of doing what they said they'd do and not making crap up. Unlike some people I know. It keeps coming back to the wikileaked emails which detailed the crap that had gone on at the DNC and the campaign run by Podesta for Clinton. Thank Zarquon that got out in time for the election.

The internet is a dangerous place, Paul. Just what sort of law do you think would punish the evil doers that would work better than what I've been pushing... better security? Lock the barn door before the horse gets stolen?

Paul Emery


One example for sure is the information transmitted through Wikileaks stolen from the DNC. How many times do I have to repeat that. Are you that dense? It was stolen and distributed with the intent of influencing the election pure and simple. jeez

George, are you saying that the emails stolen by the Russians from the DNC and distributed through wikileaks had no influence on the election? Trump parroted that information for weeks as a main part of his campaign against "crooked Hillary". You yourself championed the value of that information over and over again.

How about this as an equivalent experience,

Lets imagine I'm running against Todd for County Supervisor and a friend of mine, who favors me in the election' breaks into Todds house and steals a photo of Todd throwing puppies off the Broad Street Bridge. Would I be ethical in distributing that stolen information and using it as part of my campaign?

Trump took advantage of stolen information and people like you applauded the results because the content was favorable to you're desired outcome.


Posted by: Gregory | 27 June 2017 at 03:59 PM

You'll never convince him! His preferred 2nd ( first really given Johnsons electoral chances) choice candidate was denied her rightful role.....he's upset!

Paul Emery

You are remarkably dense Fish.


"It was stolen and distributed with the intent of influencing the election pure and simple."

By 'it', I assume you mean information about the cheating that the DNC does.

So who stole it? How do you know that? My guess is that you don't have any idea technically what was done, and have no idea who did it, but are filled with opinions in any case.

In terms of Todd, let's say you found his meth lab. You are saying that it's more ethical to not tell anyone? Are you in favor of dangerous drugs for our children? Do you hate children?

In any case, more fun tomorrow....

Paul Emery

US Intelligence has already determined it was the Russians that stole the emails. that has been repeated over and over. Several participants on this blog deny that but the cheese stands alone on this one.


"US Intelligence has already determined it was the Russians that stole the emails."



...and this is piss poor 'proof'.

Paul Emery

So Scenes you deny the conclusions of all of our intelligence agencies.

Dear readers, this is an example of the Putin cuddling I have been referring to.

Paul Emery

So Scenes you know more than the entire US intelligence community.

This dear reader is an example of the Putin cuddling I have been observing on this blog. Classic case of ends justify the means and yet another example of the preference of Putin over Democrats and liberals by residents of this blog. Really odd but here it is.


Yes, the wikileaked emails were stolen. So have been all the wikileaked documents from their beginning. Virtually all leaked documents were stolen by someone, including the Pentagon Papers. Now, shall we have a discussion about your situational ethics, Paul?

Had a reporter from, say, the WaPo or NYTimes, done their job, perhaps some subset of the crap the wikileaked emails revealed could have been made public without wikileaks. But that probably would have also involved a theft of information. My favorite wikileaked DNC email was authored by Podesta, an early exhortation of their media partners to push Trump as a "pied piper" candidate to lead the GOP astray.

Good job, John Podesta!

Murder is a bit worse than stealing computer files showing DNC wrongdoings... it's a shame the trail of Seth Rich's murderer(s) went cold... had it been a competent mugging gone wrong he'd have been relieved of something of value after being shot in the back.

Paul Emery

Oh you're on that one Gregory. Fox had to eat their own poop when they denied any truth to the story and forbade it being part of the news. Of course Hannity, who is not a newscaster, grumbled about it.

"On May 16, a story was posted on the Fox News website on the investigation into the 2016 murder of DNC Staffer Seth Rich. The article was not initially subjected to the high degree of editorial scrutiny we require for all our reporting. Upon appropriate review, the article was found not to meet those standards and has since been removed.

We will continue to investigate this story and will provide updates as warranted."

Nothing new since then


'So Scenes you deny the conclusions of all of our intelligence agencies.'

Name them. Give me a little real evidence here. Perhaps some wiretapping of Putin? Server logs? Bueller?

Here's some official stuff...maybe it's in here?

All I'm seeing are leaked statements to a highly partisan press.

If this is the entire support to your belief system,and you think that Wikileaks is lying, I simply can't help it. At this point, the civil war raging in Washington is obvious, and you've obviously picked a side. I couldn't tell you who leaked DNC emails, the new world of the internet is a big place and simple causalities aren't going to cut it. The amount of certainty you bring to this is far out of proportion to any presented facts.

In other news.


"This dear reader is an example of the Putin cuddling I have been observing on this blog. "

And this is a fine example of being for or against us.

My own take is that the perp is unknown in this matter, and there are degrees of guilt. Perhaps it was Russians and the FSB looked the other way. Perhaps it was a DNC staffer. Perhaps Putin gave the word in a perfect paper trail down to a GRU computer lab.

To you, it appears that anyone not vehemently anti-Putin must be pro-Putin. An enemy. An excellent reason to post under pseudonym. Hopefully you'll throw a little food over the fence once you get the camps set up.


Paul 505

I made no statement, implicit or explicit, about any alleged involvement of the murdered DNC staffer Seth Rich. Your overactive imagination filled in the gaps. Confirmation bias at work!

Paul Emery


the assessment by the 16 intelligence agencies.

Unclassified version of intelligence report on Russian hacking during the 2016 election

Direct quote from the report:

"We assess with high confidence that Russian military intelligence (General Staff Main Intelligence Directorate or GRU) used the Guccifer 2.0 persona and to release US victim data obtained in cyber operations publicly and in exclusives to media outlets and relayed material to WikiLeaks"

Follow this link to read the entire report.

Paul Emery

We're looking at the same document Scenes. What evidence to you have that proves it to be u untruthful?

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery has nothing.

Paul Emery

I've got a photo of you tossing puppies off the Broad Street Bridge Todd. they were delivered to me by an confidential source.

Paul Emery

Signing off for now readers. I'll return when I feel like it.


This is actually The Paul's money shot.

"We assess with high confidence that the GRU relayed material it acquired from the DNC and senior Democratic officials to WikiLeaks. "

At this point in time, 'because we said so' isn't enough for me. Especially given the counter claims by Assange, Dotcom, etc. and the ongoing civil war. If you want to back the overthrowers of Iran and runners of secret jails without a bit of questioning, that's your look out. Siding with the people that actually run the show is probably the safe move, so I can't blame you.

The real danger to the future of this country isn't Putin, it's Bluffdale.


I assess with high confidence Paul would believe anything he really wants to believe.

tap tap tap is this thing on??
Nothing to worry about here, scenes:

"It's a slam dunk, Mr. President", George Tenet (a Clinton appointee) to Bush the 2nd is one of the most tragic assessments that led to the Iraq War.

George Rebane

PaulE 528pm - Paul's puppy toss scenario. My first answer to your 411pm question - yes, it would be ethical for you to distribute any truths that you feel are material to the voters' attitude toward your opponent. (Throwing puppies off bridges is both illegal and a very illuminating aspect of a person's character.) But lets get real and use an ethically similar yet more serious scenario.

What if the friend discovered in your opponent's private effects an assembled bomb with nearby plans of the Rood Center on its placement. Would his stealing that and informing you of it make it unethical for you to inform law enforcement and the electorate of your opponents behavior? Puppy tossing OK, but bombs not so much - and, of course, you and fellow liberals know where to draw the line.


Posted by: Paul Emery | 27 June 2017 at 04:21 PM

Ya know.....from anybody except you.....

Todd Juvinall

Those puppies were stuffed animals. But it never happened regardless. Paul Emery does show though he is a fake newsman. He is also a hypocrite. But no jail time is necessary as he is spanked here all the time his butt must be bloody. Now he is doing the arrogant liberal attitude of coming an going. Of which like a woman, he changes his mind every other minute.

The fundraiser was well attended last night. I got to see many "good ol' boys and girls" as Pelline like to say and I met some newer folks and was intor'd to Shannon Moon.

Don Bessee

PE @ 421 is a liar. The recent hearings showed that the DNC never let anyone look at the servers. NO ONE said the FBI. Only the DNC knows what happened and why would they deny investigator access to prove who got in there? Could it be because they knew it was an inside job by a Bernie bro?

Once again, the FBI said they don't have any details on the DNC server because they NEVER got to look at the server because of the DNC refusing to cooperate. ;-)

Todd Juvinall

And unfortunately, Paul Emery ate the puppies.

Don Bessee

Ya Todd I heard puppies are a druid delicacy. ;-)


Puppies can make a fine meal, but not if they've been runned over. So, no tossing puppies off the overpass without out a recovery detail below. Please, dead puppies are a terrible thing to waste.

Bill Tozer

Well, this was most fun reading the comments. Brought a smile to my face.

First, Punchy statered on the right root with his "tried to influence" @11:38 am. Of course, he put his left foot in his mouth with his "the fact that the Russians hacked into various components of our voting system...". Fact? Homeland Security attempted to hack into our voting system in 21 states, suspiciously on dates of election importance.
I will just overlook "the fact" because I am convinced more than ever that the Deep State Obama-Clinton wing of the Democrat Party is more dangerous to our Constitution. Our Protections, our Nation, and our civil liberties than the Russians could imagine in a wet dream.

As a side note, I have fast maintained since the before the primaries that the Clinton Machine was bigger than the DNC, bigger than the mere Democratic Party, and much more powerful. More powerful than any political machine the two major parties have ever known, with its tentacles reaching into the media, US Givernment, and numerous foreign powers, great and small.
Second, Paul later wrote "intent on influencing". Aha! They (Obama's Justice Department and it's waterboy underlings) could NOT find My Gal's intent in setting up a private server outside of the reach of FICA' requests and then frying said server with BleachBot... in addition to smashing 11 devices with hammers when the heat was on her. Yet we know Trump's intent, Putin's intent, and everybody's intent except for Obama, Susan Rice, and HRC's intent. Amazing. These are the same folks who are STILL looking for the Pulse Nightclub shooter's intent, the largest mass murder in US history. Just cant find the intent. A great unsolved mystery, unless you are a Rooskies or The Donald or Jeff Sessions. Anybody see a pattern here?

Thirdly, by 1:30 Paul went back to having both left feet in his mouth with his "influenced". Darn, he started off at least half right. As a dog returns to his vomit, so Punchy returns to full blown Russia Degrangement. The word 'Syndrome' is not necessary here because the poor troubled lost in the wilderness soul is deranged. Done gone off his rocker. And that is leaving TDS and BDS out of the equation.

Circling the wagons, "we access with a high degree of confidence......". Da assessment is our best educated guess, always has been, always will be until new evidence emerges. High degree of confidence is we think we are correct. High degree is what percentage? The same high degree of confidence in his best educated that led Punchy to tell me that Trump had no chance to will the election. Zero chance. Boy, Punchy had a high degree of confidence 3 weeks out of the election when ABC had Hillary up by 12, lol. Hmmm. An "access" or assement is not fact. High degree is not a fact. Fact is 100% correct.

The only fact here is a report stated "we access with a high degree of confidence". Yes, the report used those words, which is the only fact we know as fact.

Keep swinging wildly at the air Punchy. A winner never quits, a quitter never wins. Swing harder and maybe you will hit something solid, instead barely grazing your opponent's shoulder with your best shots. You are doing great Punchy! Stagger over to your corner and you might be saved my the bell. Might. Worth a try.

"He who fights and runs away, may live to fight another day.".

I will address the excellently written topic of this post at a later time, not yet disclosed, "when I choose to." :)

Bill Tozer

Off topic but on thread:

The problem wiith puppies is it takes a whole bunch of them to make a plate of ribs.

Don Bessee

BT are you channeling Andrew Dice Clay? ;-)


Dead Puppies!


Why the Democratic party is doomed, by Julian Assange

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