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« On Responding to Russia | Main | Just a couple of burrs »

27 June 2017

Comments

George Rebane

Well here's the proof everyone has been looking for that it was all Trump's fault.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/UkcxeJCPgz0

Don Bessee

Ahhhhh fresh kitty litter. ;-)

Todd Juvinall

Pelline is denying he is a far left liberal. You cannot make this stuff up.

George Boardman

Talk about your basic disconnect!

The Republican leadership in the Senate is trying to keep its health care bill off life support. What is Trump doing to help the cause?

Nothing. He's too busy unloading on CNN for doing the right thing because, as we all know, it's all about The Donald.

No wonder the Republicans can't get any major legislation passed.

Todd Juvinall

Wait until the bribery begins. Things will move along quite fast. LOL!

Gregory

Yes, Pelline is in denial about his politics... I recall he ignored questions in the past about just what GOP presidential, senatorial or gubernatorial candidates he'd supported in the past. None is my guess. No Jeff, declining to state a party preference when registering to vote, and claiming to vote for centrist candidates for non partisan offices doesn't make for a true middle of the roader.

He's also living bigly through his kid, dragging him to visit colleges and attending all sorts of enrichment programs with them, this time at Sac State. He adds,
"We also are raising a straight-A student and making important contributions to the schools"
Isn't that special?

Russ

Experts Say Liberal And Conservative Brains Are Wired Differently

This is a little old but I have not seen any recent science to refute the findings, perhaps other readers can fill in the gap.

In addition to casting different votes at the ballot box, it’s no secret that liberals and conservatives view the world differently. There’s even some evidence that they prefer different beers.

But the divide goes quite a bit deeper, according to new research. Liberals and conservatives use different cognitive strategies to solve non-political problems, Northwestern University researchers report in a new study published in the Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology.

We already know that the moral profiles of liberals and conservatives are different, according to a previous 2015 study: Liberals tend to value equality, fairness and protecting the vulnerable, while conservatives emphasize patriotism, group loyalty, respect for authority and moral purity.

But this new research finds that the differences extend to basic problem solving and learning.

“Conservatives tend to be more structured, rigid and to prefer clear answers, whereas liberals have a higher tolerance of ambiguity and complexity and greater openness,” Carola Salvi, lead author of the study and a postdoctoral fellow in cognitive psychology at Northwestern and the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, told The Huffington Post.

The rest of the article is HERE.

If this was not enough evidence, the comments on this blog by liberals, semi-liberals, and conservatives demonstrates that thinking patterns are vastly different, much along the lines described in the article. Conservatives strive for clarity, while liberals bury their arguments in ambiguity and complexity.

George Rebane

A little local news appropriately buried in one of our comment streams - one of my spies in St Helena reports that Nevada City Manager Mark Prestwich will be leaving our fair town for more lucrative ($220K/yr) climes in the wine country. This was announced at the St Helena City Council meeting. Apparently no one here has yet thought it important enough to publicize this. I have no idea where Mr Prestwich's 'hail and farewell' party will be held, nor whom the Nevada City mamas and papas have found to fill his shoes. On other blogs this might have been more prominently featured as a "scooplet" ;-)

Todd Juvinall

You scooped the FUE!

Don Bessee

Well done sir @ 913.

I am catching up on the news shows and have been really enjoying that the 1% er comrade Bernie the free tuition guy and his wife are being shown to be in the middle of a fraud.

A 10 million dollar loan application under false pretenses ( a crime in itself) and comrade Bernie using his influence to advance approval of an application that was a fraud.

Hey it only bankrupted and closed a university. Now we really get a clue of what comrade bernies university plan would do in the real world.

Bill Tozer

This is precious:

"We are bullied and browbeaten every day, and I pretty much have had enough of it," he said. "We can't take the bullying anymore. It's undermining the fourth estate, it's undermining the first amendment."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/angry-white-house-reporter-i-cant-take-it-anymore/article/2627291

Bill Tozer

i just love it when they good money down the draiin.

https://heatst.com/politics/democrats-are-so-out-of-touch-that-they-just-appointed-a-chairwoman-of-heartland-engagement/?mod=sm_fb_post


Bill Tozer

Laughs of the day....and the day is still young.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1116445575156145/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1117394995061203/?type=3&theater

Gregory

Fake "newsman" making stuff up again... in response to my 7:24PM above, he wrote:


jeffpelline says:
June 27, 2017 at 10:11 pm

I like it when Greg Goodnight, the global warming denier, thinks I’m far left. Of course, Greg. Spoken like a true global warming denier. lol.

Personally, I like it when Jeff makes stuff up (misspelling names as he goes) and gets caught... no Jeff, that's not what I wrote or thought. I do expect you are a solid left of center Democratic Party partisan, but hard left? Well, only if Rebane is hard right, and he arguably isn't.

Jeff, no one thinks you are an award winning journalist, loosen your belt and let your politics hang out.

Regarding the gratuitous "denier" label, time is on my side.

Jeff Pelline

Gregory,
I am an award winning journalist. Are you still jobless?

fish

This is what scares Punchy so much....that the D.C. Status quo is in trouble!


"Permanent Washington has changed over time, in ways that at first blush might seem friendlier to the Trumps. Over the past few decades, the old Georgetown—epitomized by people like the late Post owner Katharine Graham and hostess Evangeline Bruce—has largely given way to the flashier, less aristocratic world of social mixers like political and media consultants Tammy Haddad and Juleanna Glover. Where the Georgetown of the 1960s was a world of Andover and Choate grads and inherited wealth, today’s D.C. macher class is a meritocracy of sorts, as likely to feature self-made strivers from state schools as it is the scions of Harvard and Yale. That might seem friendlier territory for the Trumps, given their nouveau-riche vibe, but it hasn’t worked out that way. While both old Georgetown and modern This Town lean strongly Democratic, even longtime Republicans say they feel a different kind of chill between Trump’s Washington and social Washington. One veteran of George W. Bush’s White House with deep connections to the city’s media and lobbying scenes says of the Trump team: 'They wear our scorn as a badge of honor.' "


The same old "This Town" antics.....that's what your "Green Libertarian" is defending in his ongoing feeble attacks on the present administration!

You'd think that he would be more in favor of an outsider like President Wrecking Ball, even one he opposes philosophically, just to put the D.C. insider class off their stride for a few years.....but no....not our Punchy!

Mr. Status Quo to his very core!

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/27/this-town-during-trump-presidency-215304

George Rebane

Re my 913pm, this morning (28jun17) our Union reported Mr Prestwich's resignation here -
http://www.theunion.com/news/nevada-citys-city-manager-announces-resignation/

fish

Posted by: Jeff Pelline | 28 June 2017 at 10:22 AM

"Award winning journalist"?

Is that anything like a "World renowned coffee retrieval specialist" or "Nationally recognized Herb Caen name dropper"?

Todd Juvinall

Fish, now that's funny! And now that professional award is blessing our community.

Paul Emery

For your reading pleasure Trump favoability poll-down to 35. Soon he may even rival Bush as the lowest ever. The Repubs sure know how to pick um .

Quinnipiac University. May 31-June 6, 2017. N=1,361 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.2.
"Is your opinion of Donald Trump favorable, unfavorable or haven't you heard enough about him?"
Favorable 35% Unfavorable 60% don't know 5%


Paul Emery

GOP flop of the week-healthcare. Where was Trump?

"Senators left the meeting perplexed at what will come next, and people close to McConnell don’t fully comprehend how his strategy will play out, according to interviews with senators, aides and Republican operatives.

Even Senate Majority Whip John Cornyn (R-Texas), McConnell's deputy and perhaps his closest ally, admitted that he was a “little bit” surprised at the decision. Cornyn had said the vote was on just minutes before."


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/27/senate-obamacare-repeal-republicans-240023

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 28 June 2017 at 11:06 AM

GOP flop of the week-healthcare. Where was Trump?


God protects drunks, children, feeble old "newsmen" and the GOP from folly! Now Obamacare can remain law and die the horrible death it has always been destined for!

Now.....on to tax relief!

Gregory

Golly, Jeff, and here I thought you'd given up journalism to sell adverts in a glossy pennysaver. Back at the 'Frisco Chronicle, are you?

I'm coding what I want to code, Jeff, have an income that covers the house and airplane expenses and, according to my bank when I checked Sunday, have a FICO score of 842/850. But thanks for asking.

Now, how about that retraction you owe me and your readers for your error. A simple acknowledgement that I didn't call you "hard left" would be acceptable.

Todd Juvinall

Trump is doing great. The American people don't belive the polls so you are whistling past the graveyard. Healtcare on again today. They got my Tweet!

Larry Wirth

Key assumption gone wrong? The Russians favored Trump over Hillary. Can someone please 'splain me why that should be so? 'Cause if you can't, the whole sick narrative goes Poof!
L

Larry Wirth

I didn't hear Trump to "be more flexible after.." or promise to sell 20% of US uranium in exchange for a donation to the Trump Foundation, did I?
L

Gregory

"Now Gregory claims I’m not “far left”; that I’m a “solid left of center Democratic Party partisan.”

No, Jeff, not good enough. Try again. I didn't write you were "far left". You can do it, just actually report without making stuff up.

Gregory

Oh, and Jeff, those scare quotes around "assets"... as in "I’m eyeing those big “assets” of yours that “cover the house and airplane”"

I didn't say anything about assets. Another fake quote from you. Batting .000 a'gin, big guy.

Todd Juvinall

But he is far left. The few people he knows tell me that.

Bill Tozer

1)Now Todd, don't feed the puppies. Like the FUE, they are stuffed already.

2) Anybody see hide not hair from Mr. Dozer or lowercase john smith? Little jon. It's like they done jumped off the overpass that eventful night in early November. Silence is golden, Hey, I kept telling them it is not wise to remove the armor before the battle begins, as I tell all those whose assesment is chalk full of a high degree of confidence. Did they listen? No. Maybe they did not jump off the overpass. Maybe it was Lovers' Leap. Bet there is one Turkish fellow out there that is heartbroken...or relieved. :)

3). Picture time (filler).

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1116433525157350/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1116139625186740/?type=3&theater


Todd Juvinall

They are sock puppets and Paul Emery ate them.

George Boardman

Pelline claims he voted for LaMalfa. It must have been when he ran against Heidi Hall. LOL, as they say.

Todd Juvinall

No one believes that except his sock puppets. He is a Alt-lefty.

Bill Tozer

Somebody got some 'splaining to do.

http://circa.com/politics/fbi-chief-andrew-mccabe-faces-three-separate-federal-inquiries-into-his-behavior

Jeff Pelline

George,
I know you're not too bright. But in 2012, LaMalfa ran against Jim Reed. I voted for Doug. Did you not recall that? Have a warm glass of milk and take a nap!

Gregory,
I never said you "wrote" anything. I said you thought something, which you deny. And I am not a "solid left of center Democratic Party partisan," either. Over the years, I have voted for Republicans including LaMalfa (once), Bush (once), and Regan. In local races I also have voted for registered Republicans (such as Nate Beason).
This blog is filled with extremist comments from the right, so It's hard for all of you to imagine that your "opposite" is merely "in the middle." Go figure.

Bill Tozer

I remember back when the whispers were buzzing that President Obama was going to have Debbie Whatzername replaced as DNC chair. Debbie's response was immediate, unsettle, and clear. If Obama tried to replace her, she would play the gender card and scream "Obama is a misogynist from the rooftops". Obama reasoned it was not worth the battle and let it ride.

All that to say is you could see this coming a mile away. Forget the lies she said. Look at the real reason she is under the gun, I. e., gender bias.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/28/susan-rice-suggests-race-gender-bias-
linked-to-unmasking-backlash.html

Trigger warning: F Bombs. Read at your own risk. Hey, anybody know who the acting FBI Director is?

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/875947719222118/?type=3&theater

Bill Tozer

Opps, broken link from 1:35 pm. Try this one

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/28/susan-rice-suggests-race-gender-bias-linked-to-unmasking-backlash.html

Must be a slow news day. The Pillsbury Doughboy got up and waddled over here. Hmmm. He must be longing for the good old Mayberry, RFD days ever since somebody stole his kid's bicycle from the yard across the tracks over in Quaintytown. I bet Barnie was hot on the trail. Even made the police blotter. Guess NIMBYs is just shorthand for yearning for reruns of Father Knows Best.
Pssst, someone please tell he/she that the chair is still wedged to his/her. backside. It's the least we can do.

Walt

How many of you actually believe this is job of LIB news?
http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/06/28/caddell-on-cnn-fake-news-scandal-networks-believe-its-their-right-to-tell-you-who-you-must-vote-for/
" “You want to tell me that that’s the way media should operate? They believe that it is their right to tell you who you must vote for and by the way to decide what truth you may, or may not know. And anything that counters what they want you to believe they don’t cover.”

Well, that's how LIBS get elected. A good example of how "O" got elected. (and maybe why ol' Bernie got the shaft.)

Bill Tozer

Education is back in the news.

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/stanford-prof-saying-your-homework-was-easy-is-a-microaggression/?mod=sm

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1116851741782195/?type=3&theater

Gregory

peeline 1:34
"I said you thought something"

Jeff, loosen that tin foil skullcap... your powers of distance ESP to people you've never actually met are being attenuated. Since I never wrote that, didn't say that and didn't think that, your problem, if it was based on what I wrote here, seems to be reporting with a lack of rigor in the use of inductive and deductive logic with written English.

Unless you can document your spidey senses about what people you've never met are thinking, you might stop digging that hole you've dug. You reported to your lickspittles (I love that word but rarely have a chance to use it) that I thought that based only on the comment I left here.

What office was the "Regan" running for when you voted for them? Or is that another misspelling of yours?

Nothing "extreme right" here, and I still rank left-libertarian (nearly anarchist) on most Nolan Chart quizzes. Pro-choice on just about everything. Sorry, Jeff, but if all the folks here look "extreme right" to you, I probably need to rethink your place on the political spectrum because you're observing from a point farther to the left than I thought.

Jeff Pelline

Gregory,
Weren't you sitting in my living room when your son was applying for a Cal Gold Country scholarship?

Gregory

No, Jeff, I didn't set foot into your house, and we've been over that before. I had a conflict and you have a false memory.

My son, by the way, graduated from Cal as a Regent's and Chancellor's Scholar with High Honors and the Sagebarth Prize (one of two awarded each year) from the Dept. of Chemistry. Phi Beta Kappa. Just wondering, how did the kid(s) you picked do?

Gregory

Didn't look right so I looked it up... it's the Erich O. & Elly M. Saegebarth Prize in Chemistry.

Jeff Pelline

Are you sure? Well, I'm certain that they're not "independent ... at my place."

Jeff Pelline

Yes, you got it right the second time. And there's a lesson for you in that award: “Although she is extremely smart, Michelle doesn’t let her success go to her head,” said her grandmother Sandy Alpert. “She is actually a delightfully humble girl.”
http://www.theacorn.com/news/2013-05-30/Community/18yearold_earns_dual_degrees_from_UC_Berkeley.html

Gregory

What are you babbling about now, Jeff? My description of what I do now? The question was not a current job title, real or imagined, it's did they graduate?

I'm guessing selling advertising in a glossy pennysaver isn't what you were dreaming of when you were fetching Caen's coffee every morning.

Jeff Pelline

Gregory,
I was a staff writer and editor at The Chronicle for 12 years. (You need to retract your statement "fetching Caen's coffee every morning.")

And in the foothills, I am thrilled to be publishing a magazine (in print and online) that is growing, solidly profitable and supports our region.

You sound like a real sad person. Belittling others to make yourself look smart. I hope you get some counseling some day.

Paul Emery

Jeff

Gregory is actually a pretty nice guy but you wouldn't know it by following his blats on this blog.

Todd Juvinall

And Paul Emery is not a nice person or liked by anyone anywhere. But I am well loved by many.

Paul Emery

Trump is running out of steam

“When you have a 35 percent approval rating and you’re under FBI investigation, you don’t have a hammer,”“When you have a 35 percent approval rating and you’re under FBI investigation, you don’t have a hammer,” said GOP consultant John Weaver.

Trump’s meeting with Republican senators appears to have changed little about the health care bill’s fortunes, although it’s not dead yet.

“The House health care vote shows he does have juice, particularly with people on the right,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) said. “The Senate health care vote shows that people feel that health care is a defining issue and that it’d be pretty hard for any politician to push a senator into taking a vote that’s going to have consequences for the rest of their life.”

A reporter asked Graham whether he personally feared Trump, who once gave out the senator’s cell phone number on the campaign trail.

“Graham chuckled before saying, ‘No,'” the Post reported.

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 28 June 2017 at 04:59 PM


......still president Paul.

George Rebane

PaulE 459pm - The record of this forum reaches back over ten years. For most of this time you have predicted the looming demise of the Republican Party in these pages. Last year you were the penultimate fearless prognosticator of Hillary wiping the floor with Trump in the 2016 election. Now, still unabashed, you courageously have again lifted your lance and charged into the windmills of Trump's presidency, predicting its premature termination becoming more imminent by the day. The vim and vigor you have shown to sally forth, undiminished by past performance, is truly remarkable. Given all this, can you share with the rest of us what keeps you going in a manner that brings shame to also-rans like the Energizer Bunny? We would all like to have such imperturbable confidence in ourselves - who wouldn't?

Don Bessee

In a poll the po' ol' pollhead will never mention Trump did better than 0. Approve or disapprove of handling of the Russia thing. They tied on the negative rating and Trump did 4 points better in the people who thought Trump was handling the Russia thing better.

This sandbox sure got stinky fast. ;-)

Steve Frisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 28 June 2017 at 06:10 PM


That's not fair George, Paul can't help it if as he kept getting cooler (I am going to miss the songs of Leonard Cohen) the country kept getting stupider.

Don Bessee

Wha???? @ 643. ;-)

John

Pelline at 3:52. I have read on more than one blog that you did fetch coffee for Herb Caen. Are you saying that is not true?

Jeff Pelline

John,
And you were dumb enough to believe it? No, it's not true. I was a reporter and editor at The Chronicle for 12 years. Herb fetched his own coffee.

Todd Juvinall

Steve Frisch | 28 June 2017 at 06:43 PM

The country sans liberals got way smarter. So you have my deepest sympathy for your loss.

John

Pelline, maybe I was mistaken. Maybe it was Ackerman. Did you fetch coffee for Jeff Ackerman?

Gregory

Jeff 3:52pm
"You sound like a real sad person. Belittling others to make yourself look smart. I hope you get some counseling some day."

Back at you, Jeff. You're 'projecting'. That's your inner Eric Cartman speaking... and you've been in denial about that for quite some time. I've heard from multiple sources of your yelling at and belittling subordinates at The Union, and you seem to be trying to do the same here.

Finally, "climate denier" is hate speech, and as long as you keep using a term intended for Neonazis pretending the Holocaust never happen for those of us who have studied the science for ourselves and come to a different conclusion, I'll keep using negative hyperbole to describe your fawning over Caen and your glossy pennysaver with a minimum of content, just enough to hold the advertisements together.

Gregory

Paul 4:59pm

As the national Democratic Party solidified more and more to the left over the last 8 or so years, the Democratic Party itself got hollowed out, which is why the leadership is elderly and out of ideas. Octogenarians... and a whippersnapper or two in their 70's and the fewest number of elected officials since the early Roaring 20's, only without the likes of Kid Ory and Louis Armstrong providing the soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-e_qHR6xhY
Ory's Muskat Ramble, one of my favorites.

That's how far back the Democratic Party has fallen, Paul. You missed it entirely.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

lol. I can feel the love.

re: Gregory@11:56PM.

I expect they'll be fine. The highly self-interested groups that make up the coalition called the Democratic Party will just renegotiate a bit and adjust the catechism accordingly. Selling soap is a science and they'll just change the formula a bit.

In other news, Illinois leads the way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH-Z7-PMIwI&app=desktop

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

Those pesky Russians!

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2017/06/28/heh-mccaskill-paid-for-dinner-at-russian-ambassadors-residence-with-funds-from-undisclosed-foundation-n2348069

Jeff Pelline

Gregory,
You wrote this? "Finally, "climate denier" is hate speech, and as long as you keep using a term intended for Neonazis pretending the Holocaust never happen for those of us who have studied the science for ourselves and come to a different conclusion, I'll keep using negative hyperbole to describe your fawning over Caen and your glossy pennysaver with a minimum of content, just enough to hold the advertisements together."

You do need some counseling!

Steve Frisch

If Gregory applied the same logic to the holocaust that he applied to climate he would be a denier.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

You have to admit that 'climate denier' is related to 'holocaust denier' is related to Hitler.

Personally, I think it's a super clever bit of wordage. It fits into the idea that anyone who questions climate science (especially the political part) is a kind of Nazi. It's rather like a mean nickname. People argue in symbols rather than from deep knowledge on a matter, so anything like that is quite effective.

I don't much care about free magazines and so have no opinion on that.

In another matter, CNN and Russia:

https://imgur.com/cxMstTB

Steve Frisch

I would argue that the term "climate denier" or climate science denier is not only perfectly appropriate but it is the most accurate description partly because of its association with holocaust denial.

There's a strong body of scientific research and cognitive research into the phenomenon of science denial which I believe extends to climate denial. It is the same phenomenon one sees in denial of evolution, non-science based attacks on vaccination, and faux science studies on Chemtrails and GMO's.

Denial is about the rejection of observed science and the belief that contrarian points of view have MORE credibility than majority points of view within the scientific community specifically because they are contrarian. This is a phenomena specific to people predisposed to reject what are considered trusted sources because they have lost trust. They have lost their ability to independently of impartially analyze the science. To really understand it we need to go into the psychological research into what drives people to reject scientific based evidence. There is very strong cognitive research showing that we seek out data and positions that support our predetermined points of view then use the dissemination of that information as a tactic or persuasion technique.

In short, that is really no different than the holocaust denier that rejects first person observed evidence because they do not trust the sources, even if the sources are survivors of Buchenwald, American and British soldiers liberating camps, and even source documents from the mass murders themselves cataloguing the deaths.

Criticizing people for using the accurate and informative term ‘denial’ is nothing more than a diversionary tactic.

Steve Frisch

Of course part of it could just be that Gregory has a hard on for attacking people like Jeff or me because their lives are so shallow and joyless that the only way they can find solace is being big on social media because they are small and powerless in their own subconscious...kind of like our President.

fish

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 29 June 2017 at 08:01 AM


Your dedication to message discipline is truly an inspiration to us all.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

re: SF@8:01AM

Well, I'm convinced. Thinking that weather models are crappy or that important causalities are missed is essentially the same as claiming that 12 million or so Jews, gypsies, gays, etc. weren't gassed and shot.

And I always thought it was a loaded terminology specifically chosen because of the tie to inhumane actions. Go figure.

It's a boring argument anyway since in venues like this it's a few people who have gone to some trouble to look at the underlying science (with correct or incorrect conclusions) vs. people who can only use appeals to authority. It's an oblique kind of discussion.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

"Your dedication to message discipline is truly an inspiration to us all."

C'est la vie.

The most depressing part is when people have exactly the kind of opinions that you expect, and those opinions extend to an incredibly wide family of topics.

You have to wonder about the validity of your thoughts, and when/where those were picked up, if the whole package fits into an archetype. I think that free will is not all that it's cracked up to be.

fish

Posted by: ScenesFromTheApocalypse | 29 June 2017 at 08:29 AM

The most depressing part is when people have exactly the kind of opinions that you expect, and those opinions extend to an incredibly wide family of topics.



Depressing? Why?

Steve Frisch

Posted by: ScenesFromTheApocalypse | 29 June 2017 at 08:19 AM

There is a great article in The Guardian this morning deconstructing the contention by John Christy that climate models are crappy....but no, I am not equating critiquing climate models with murdering Jews, Gypsies, gays or opponents....I am saying that the mistrust that drives the holocaust denials is similar to the distrust that drives the climate denials, the cognitive roots are the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/jun/28/climate-scientists-just-debunked-deniers-favorite-argument

Fortunately I do go to reading the underlying science, and talk regularly to people doing that science, so although I am not a scientist, at least I regularly go to the actual sources.

Bill Tozer

A now, a purse in the action.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1117703388363697/?type=3&theater

My, my. He sends Punchy his regards. Always a silver lining.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1117700525030650/?type=3&theater

Steve Frisch

"...if the whole package fits into an archetype..."

You mean like the 'conservitarian' or libertarian mindset? or the mindless distrust of all authority even if they may be correct archetype? or the anti-global archetype?

Todd Juvinall

"Denier" is a term out forth by liberals and is of no value or meaning to the debate of science. The facts and the acts of dishonest players like Frisch are rejected because they are not science. So a person cannot be defined as a denier if the underlying item is a lie.

In fact, the people like Frisch that elieve in the lie are as close to the fascists who murdered millions than any conservative. As Frisch is trying to force a lemming lifestyle on humans while conservatives are all about individual rights and freedom.

Gregory

Scenes, one of the largest and most savage of the Nazi death camps was in Nazi Croatia and more Serbs were exterminated there than Jews. Hate runs deep. Never forget.

Pelline and Frisch, thanks for staying true to form, and only the solidly left of center use "climate denier" as a cudgel.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

"Scenes, one of the largest and most savage of the Nazi death camps was in Nazi Croatia and more Serbs were exterminated there than Jews. Hate runs deep. Never forget."

That's an interesting case, one more battle in a conflict that goes back a long way. Those fault lines, in this case a religious/ethnic/language one, can result in nasty situations. I'm going to have to assume that the Croatian Nazis are the equivalent to anyone who disagrees with Michael Mann.

Steven Frisch

If the shoe fits Goodknight I care not who made it for you. You so perfectly fit the cognitive studies of denier personality that it is the Croc you were born to wear.

ScenesFromTheApocalypse

"You mean like the 'conservatarian' or libertarian mindset? "

Sure, why not? Everyone should question their own motives.

Steven Frisch

Ha😀 Lemming lifestyle; I have rarely encountered one more prepared to charge off the true believers cliff than you Todd. Any idiot could be elected claiming to be a Republican and you would follow.

Todd Juvinall

Oh Frisch, you crack me up. You are a dyed in the wool lemming and think group-think is the cat's meow. You would probably carry the AK-to enforce your farces. I am all about personal freedom from people like you so I get why you are so defensive about your beliefs. Over the cliff there Steve.

Todd Juvinall

And you prove your anti-constitutional actions all the time. You moderate off your FB and personal pages anyone that disagrees with your fallacious beliefs. You survive there as a "echo chamber" with the other leftwing loons.

Gregory

Frisch linked to a Guardian story written by Dana Nuccitelli, who apparently entered UC Davis' Physics PhD program and left with a Master's, currently something of a Christian Scientist with appendicitis as he's said to be working for a petrochemical concern somewhere in NorCal. A friend of yours, Steven?


So Steven, how does Allied liberators observing piles of emaciated bodies and industrial scale crematoria compare to your favored scientists saying, in effect, it's gotten warmer since the end of the Little Ice Age in the 19th century and it must be CO2 because that's the only explanation we have that fits the data?

Paul Emery

Trump

What a weird creep Even the Pepublicans don't like him except, of course our own Todd.

Stephen, You've got to have sympathy for Todd. He had a little winning streak about 30 years ago but went on to be a failed developer and came in 5th I believe when he ran for the House. He's part of Nevada County folklore a remnant of time gone by.

Here's what the Republicans say about our idiot in chiefs latest sexist tweets.

Republicans in Congress called out President Trump on Thursday for a series of tweets they described as "beneath the dignity of your office."

Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse, South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham and Maine Sen. Susan Collins — all Republicans — spoke out after Trump targeted Morning Joe co-host Mika Brzezinski on Twitter. Trump called her "crazy" and criticized her appearance, saying he saw her "bleeding badly from a face-lift." The tweet followed a trend of Trump singling out female reporters, often for their appearance.

"This is not okay," Republican Kansas Rep. Lynn Jenkins said. "As a female in politics I am often criticized for my looks. We should be working to empower women."

Gregory

Another view of the Santer paper Nuccitelli puts on a pedestal is here
https://judithcurry.com/2017/06/24/consensus-enforcers-versus-the-trump-administration/#more-2300

Curry puts it this way:


The paper confirms what John Christy has been saying for the last decade, and also supports the ‘denier’ statements made by Ted Cruz about the hiatus. The conclusion that The probability that multi-decadal internal variability fully explains the asymmetry between the late twentieth and early twenty- first century results is low (between zero and about 9%) hinges on results from climate models that are not fit for such a task.

The bottom line is that there are 4 possibilities to explain the 21st century discrepancy between climate models and observations:

Errors in external forcing data (Santer et al’s preferred explanation)
Internal variability (which has been supported by numerous previous studies, including posts at CE)
Values of CO2 climate sensitivity that are too high (interesting new post on this over at ClimateAudit)
Missing physical processes in the climate models (e.g. solar indirect effects).

In my assessment, all 4 are in play; for the 21st century hiatus, my assessment is that #2 is the dominant factor (with supporting contributions from #3). The Santer et al. paper attempts to address #1 and #2 (unconvincing with respect to #2). But there is much that is unknown and uncertain here, with plenty of scope for rational disagreement on this topic.

George Rebane

Re SteveF's 845am Guardian ref: “What any skeptical scientific mind should want to know is why they’re imperfect – what’s causing the difference between simulations and reality, and what can we learn from that? The answer in this case is that those forcings (solar activity, coal pollution, volcanic eruptions) and ocean cycles acted to temporarily slow the warming of atmospheric temperatures in a way that wasn’t included in the climate model simulation inputs. But that shouldn’t assuage our concerns about climate change – solar activity won’t offset long-term global warming; nor will volcanic eruptions, coal pollution, or ocean cycles. These are all short-term effects that all had a cooling effect over the past 20 years, during which time the planet nevertheless kept on warming due to the overpowering force of human carbon pollution.” (emphasis mine) How on earth could such a blanket conclusion be stated, since it is exactly that warming which is the sum and substance of the debate about climate models and data??! But we do note that now at least some of the true believers acknowledge the formerly denied recent cooling epoch.

- To begin, the author of the Guardian piece was not qualified to write an article on general circulation models (GCMs)
- ‘Forcings’ in a GCM embody current knowledge of climate impacting sub-processes like ocean mixing, heat transfer in soils, cloud formation, earth’s carbon cycle, solar wind’s effect on earth’s magnetic field, etc, etc. ALL of these are imperfectly known today, and are constantly being updated.
- In a complex system (e.g. earth’s climate) N ‘forcing’ factors have at least an of order N^2 interactions. Even less is known of such interactions.
- ANY MODEL with a sufficient number of degrees of freedom – e.g. all current GCMs – can be made to reproduce or fit any dataset, like an historical time series of temperatures, by twiddling with its plant transfer function and/or its multiple feedback gains (‘forcings’).
- The scientific verity of any model is in its ability to predict the future (i.e. experiments yet to be done) to a useful level of accuracy. Model accuracy is measured by the statistical variability of its outputs when compared to realworld measurements.
- The accuracy of GCMs has not improved over the last 30 years due to a number of factors, the updating (twiddling?) of forcing functions being just one of these.
- Beyond the added debates about which datasets to use and their reliability, the utility of current GCM outputs is a political assessment and not a scientific one.
- So far the IPCC-blessed GCMs have at best been twiddled to fit historical data, which fittings are still a matter of vigorous scientific debate.
- Climate science is immature and therefore occupies a leading edge in human knowledge. Historically, claims of broad consensus on leading edge science have always been wrong.

Todd Juvinall

The Alt-left and their media lackey's are all aflutter that Trump said something about Mika and her facelift. The left is at every microphone whining that Trump is just a terrible person for his rweets on this and other things. Now, why would they be upset since they have set the low bar for the country with their lefty pressers every day. They call the Repiblicans murderers and killers and all other forms of names for the healthcare bill proposals. I mean, do the left and the dems think people parse that and pay no attention to their inflammatroy language? I say the left is far more guilty of wrecking the langauge than any R.

Todd Juvinall

And now we see a Playboy "journalist" chewing on Ms. Huckabee at the daily presser. He was so upset he called her a "bully". I imagine he peed his pants in such fear of that lady . When I was a kid a bully was someone who threatened to physically beat yopu up. Now the liberals say a woman not taking your crap is a bully. You cannot make this stuff up.

Gregory

For the record, I expect it's #3 that is dominant in Curry's list, that the models that code up expectations that climate sensitivity to CO2 is from 2C to 4.5C for a doubling while thermodynamic calculations from actual data suggests something closer to 1.3 degrees C. Small compared to natural variations, no tipping points as they require strong positive feedbacks that aren't expected from CO2 sensitivities above 2degrees C.

CO2 sensitivity is logarithmic and self limiting... CO2 only absorbs in a narrow band of the infrared spectrum and existing CO2 (and other greenhouse gases) already absorb something more than half of that IR emitted by the earth... so while the first 1.3C of AGW would be at about 600ppm, there really couldn't be more than about 2C warming worst case if we could even extract and burn enough fossil fuels to push CO2 further.

Mammals evolved in a 2000ppm CO2 atmosphere something like 250 million years ago. 400ppm is nothing new or worth committing economic seppuku to suppress.

Gregory

GR 1047

Regarding models and the ability to fiddle parameters to make it do what you expect. the most famous pronouncement on this was "A turning point in Freeman Dyson's life occurred during a meeting in the SPring of 1953 when Enrico Fermi criticized the complexity of Dyson's model by quoting Johnny von Neumann [1] `With four parameters I can fit an elephant, and with five I can make him wiggle his trunk'"

This was demonstrated by a few German wags with time on their nearly a decade ago:
"Drawing an elephant with four complex parameters" https://publications.mpi-cbg.de/Mayer_2010_4314.pdf

And yes, they add a fifth and make the trunk wiggle.

Mary Wanna

Mrs Trump wants to take on cyber bullying as her 'cause'. Her husband is the most famous cyber bully of all time. Alternative fact reality strikes again.

Gregory

Frisch wrote a couple of howlers on Earl Crabb's blog that led RL to cut me off.

One was this:


Greg Goodknight says:
May 13, 2017 at 5:42 pm

I see they saved the best for last in that report you found so interesting, Steve, an essay on page 18 by that famed scientist Al Gore on the challenges of climate change.

You write “And now we get to the part that my friends on the right fail to get—worshiping at the alter [sic] of Smith, Basiat, Hayek and Laffer is going to kill us if you are not careful—you are part of the world and there is no safe place for you to retreat to”.

You’re projecting again, Steve. Personally, I don’t worship at any altar, but I have studied enough math, science and philosophy to recognize a steaming heap of self serving crap when you’ve served it up. Leftovers again?

Mother Earth is running the experiment and some of us will be wrong once the data is in. I fully expect that to be you and 90+% of the current population of Planet ‘Frisco.


Steve Frisch says:
May 14, 2017 at 3:35 am

I almost added a caveat to this little essay, that I fully expected a small minded troll who views the world through a lens of self appointed intellectual superiority and a single minded jihadist focus on climate change, would find the spelling error. Oh, BTW, “worshiping at the altar of Smith…” wasn’t referring to you. I was really thinking way behind the tiny world of Goodknight.

I am amazed every time you comment at just how small you are.

[The blog owner then stepped in to find fault only with me:]


rl crabb says:
May 14, 2017 at 5:29 am

Greg, you well on your way to purgatory if you can’t keep the personal insults out of your argument. Last warning.

[I called RL on his double standards:]

Greg Goodknight says:
May 14, 2017 at 9:14 am

RL, that 5:29 am warning of your would have been more effective had there truly been a personal insult in my 5:42 pm, or had there been anything but personal insults in Frisch’s 3:35 am.

Steve Frisch says:
May 14, 2017 at 9:25 am

There were absolutely no “personal insults” in my 3:35 am post. I never pointed to any specific ‘person’....

One might question why I shouldn't have interpreted "small minded troll", "the tiny world of Goodknight" or "I am amazed every time you comment at just how small you are" as personal insults targeting only me.

and then RL blocked me, banishing me to Todd's blog which I don't post at and rarely read.

I've come to the conclusion that, with the written word, RL Crabb tunes out anything that he can dismiss as a "squabble", expecting the "geniuses of the left and right", as he recently wrote, who dare to think original thoughts (whether they are original or not) to sort it out and come to an agreement before bothering him.

Walt

For our trumpeters of socialized medicine. Yup EU healthcare is great.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/06/29/eu-court-terminal-baby-must-die-despite-parents-funding-extra-care/
And this is what LIBS what for all of us.

Almost like trying to pay a Dr. here in Ca. (I know. I tried. He had to get the VA's permission to treat me. And what a battle that was)

Todd Juvinall

Gregory | 29 June 2017 at 01:14 PM

I have been blocked from the cartoon dude's blog for years just for defending myself from him and his pals Frisch etal. My sister went to school with RL and says he was a dick then too. Underavciever and nasty. The kind of person that sneaks up behind you, smacks you and runs away cryng he is being attacked. So nothing new from the libs like RL.

So Gregory gets a taste of what I have dealt with since I was Supervisor thirty years ago. Paul Emery and his minions would go door to door seeking votes for their candidates and use every vile lie they could think up about me to gain a edge. Well, I beat them both times and they are still crying. And now Paul Emery is following me around Nevada City, (which I hardly attend) trying to gain some purient satisfaction about my activities. I did run into him a couple of times over the years though. Both times I had a real beautiful woman on my arm and he could not stop staring and drooling. He is a loser with the gals and lives his fantasies through me and others. Sad.

George Boardman

Walt, if it's from Breitbart, it must be true.

If the Repubs get their way on the health care bill, states will have to decide whether to treat the poor or keep the elderly in nursing homes. Either way, people will be dying before their time.

But you won't read that on Breitbart.

Walt

Are there any photos of the protests when buggy whip makers became a thing of the past?
http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/29/nyt-reporters-stage-walkout-chant-no-editors-no-peace-over-staff-cuts-video/
Then again, LIB news in print has become their own worst enemy.

George Boardman

Todd: To paraphrase Ann Coulter, you'd endorse Communism if Trump did.

Walt

Face it Boardman, Gov. has no place trying to run health care. Gov. destroys any private business it touches.
Big government couldn't even run a whore house and turn a profit. Need a reminder? The FEDS took over the Mustang Ranch and ran it into the ground. Yet you feel they should be in charge of healthcare?

The VA SUCKS! They won't even follow their own rules.

Since your "old",and long in the tooth, even with Covered Ca. your on the "little as possible" treatment list.

Todd Juvinall

GeorgeB, no I am not like you. I have my own mind.

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