‘Gun Violence’, girding for the next chapter

George Rebane

With the Las Vegas massacre still fresh in the news, and memories of previous such shootings indelibly burned into our collective memories, the ongoing debate in these pages about preventing children from accidentally shooting themselves or others assumes a heightened focus and an inevitably extended scope.  We are all standing by for the new spate of progressive platitudes and proposed proscriptions of the lawful ownership and possession of guns guaranteed by the Second Amendment.  This guarantee is not recognized by many of our newly educated citizens, most leftwing politicians, and all lamestream journalists.  But the only guarantee we have is that when the dust of the latest tragedy settles, and it will settle, this next chapter of the debate will leave us more separated than ever – the Great Divide ratchet turneth.

So, back to preventing accidental gun deaths.  I wonder what would happen to current statistics if children were taught about gun safety in kindergarten and/or first grade.  Today concerned parents have no hope of denying their child’s knowledge of the existence and, yes, the romance of guns since the world’s cultures glorify their existence as objects of power, adventure, status, justice, crime, coming of age, … .  Today all of this is drummed into the heads of the little darlins through immensely popular and engaging shoot-‘em-up computer games, realistic movies, and TV/online videos available 24/7 on the youngsters’ phones and pads.  And the more such parents attempt to keep children from having early ‘gun experiences’, the more attractive guns become to kids as the forbidden fruit that when serendipitously discovered, must immediately be handled, explored, surreptitiously shared, etc.

As a youngster (and child war veteran) in 1950s middle America, I was as interested in guns as were any of my friends.  In those days fathers (mine included) put guns into the hands of their sons (and many daughters) when they were, by today’s standards, very young.  I got my Red Ryder Daisy BB gun when ten, and my first 22 mag-fed bolt action rifle when thirteen.  (One of my grandsons now has it.)  I taught my children and grandchildren about guns and gun safety before they were five, and to shoot before they were eight.

Before the age of political correctness it was rare to hear of a youngster tragically discharging a found firearm.  Although kids did have their share of hunting accidents when improperly handling their firearms.  But then such accidents were not political or politicized events, no one became hysterical as a result and started militating for some new draconian laws or regulations that proscribed or constructively denied the then legal ownership and disposition of guns.  Overall, these were viewed as childhood accidents similar to when a kid seriously injured himself on a swing or other playground equipment, or riding his bicycle, swimming, climbing trees, or … .  These were simply tragic accidents the solution to which was more/better safety training.  We recognized that life lived to the fullest has inherent dangers, and their attempted eradication would also eliminate other unintended desiderata that contributed to our quality of life – in sum, the overzealous quest for safety itself has a price, as we see all around us today.

Are we really a better society as a result of fifty years of social histrionics wherein we have sought to impress each other with our social consciousness and caring that today mandates almost everything that we do, say, or think.  How many mass shootings did we have when young people knew more about guns and had easier access to them?

Comments

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 03 October 2017 at 08:15 AM

It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out.

It will play out like this:

1) At some point in the future the democrats will have control of the government

2) An incident like Las Vegas will occur again.

3) Cries for "We must do something" will be uttered across the land.

4) Something will be done

5) Progressives will swoon in an orgy of self congratulation

6) Most Americans will ignore the new edicts to the best of their ability. Some will run afoul of the legal system

7) As a practical matter the ability to commit large scale attacks like this will barely be effected at all

[Paul Emery]

George

I was just citing North Korea as having
lower rates of gun violence in a UN study cited by Gregory. He was bragging that the US is something like 174 on the list of gun violence. If you have a beef with that talk to Gregory. He's the source.

[Paul Emery]

Yes

This is a step in the right direction

After Las Vegas, Dems demand GOP pull gun silencer bill

Democrats are urging their Republican colleagues in Congress to scrap a bill that that would make buying gun silencers easier and make it more difficult to classify ammunition as “armor piercing.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/after-las-vegas-dems-demand-gop-pull-gun-silencer-bill/

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 October 2017 at 08:46 AM

This is a step in the right direction

Really? By all means tell us how.

[Account Deleted]

It's a 'step in the right direction' towards pissing off people he doesn't like.
Paul has already admitted he has no proof that his 'solutions' will do any good towards reducing violence.

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 03 October 2017 at 08:57 AM

Paul has already admitted he has no proof that his 'solutions' will do any good towards reducing violence.

….and no justification for the two items he wants to restrict based on recent events in Las Vegas.

[George Rebane]

PaulE 844am - I don't need to talk to Gregory, your citing of North Korea in this debate was cynical, pernicious, and misleading. But for the lightly read readers, such citations also serve as fake news when regularly brought up today by our current crop of crack 'journalists'.

Here's an interesting thing to watch post-Las Vegas, how many major lamestream outlet reporters still do not know what an automatic firearm is as they report on the killer's gun collection, existing gun laws, and the need for more gun controls.

[Todd Juvinall]

The shooter was apparently an attendee of a anti-Trump rally.

[Paul Emery]

What does "apparently" mean Todd? What is your source?

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 October 2017 at 08:46 AM

This is a step in the right direction

????

[Todd Juvinall]

See if this works.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1960285307321971&set=p.1960285307321971&type=3&theater

[George Rebane]

Paddock's party affiliation and rally attendance videos should be a matter of record. Wonder why the lamestream is silent on these - neither reporting or contending such reports?

[Gregory]

PE 844
"I was just citing North Korea as having lower rates of gun violence in a UN study cited by Gregory. He was bragging that the US is something like 174 on the list of gun violence. If you have a beef with that talk to Gregory. He's the source."

Paul, are you that incapable of keeping the story straight, you know... being rational?

The story so far:
1) Paul declares the USA the most violent modern country
2) I dig out a list that has the USA at 99 on murder rates (not "gun violence")
3) Paul digs out NorKor as a country that did better than the USA
4) I point out that murders of their own people by NorKor aren't counted

I then point out where America is, in effect, 50+ different countries:
One, Washington D.C. is a very violent place that would be #17 on the list
Another, New Hampshire, would be near the bottom of the list.

Guess which one already has the gun laws Paul is itching to spread nationwide? Gun laws that are being peeled away now that the 2nd Amendment has been found to be binding on the States like the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Now, Don B made that into a Bad Democrat rant, but Hawaii is just behind New Hampshire in murder rates and it has been a One Party Democratic State longer than California. It's cultural... they're the least white and most Asian a plurality, the largest single group if Asian can be considered a single group (it can't, but lets let that go for the moment). The difference between say, NH and HI with DC and Louisiana in their murder rates are cultural.

Let's just say that all cultures are equal, but some are more equal than others.

[Bill Tozer]

Dr. Rebane @ 11:18 am.

Alex Jones is reporting that Antifa literature was found in Paddlock’s room. Take it or leave it. Sometimes Jones is spot on, sometimes he is off track. I will wait and see. Afterall, it has taken over a year to find out what made the Pulse shooter do what he did.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1176857095781659/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/929309123885977/?type=3&theater

Oh, the politics continue. Everytime there is a proposed tax cut or horrific shooting, the libs pull out the same playbook and recite it word for work from the top of their heads since....well, since the Flower Power peaceniks erupted in violent protests against war and Da Man. Vegas is no exception.

For the life of me, I cannot think of one new law that would have stopped Sandy Hook, where multitudes of existing laws were broken. Nor, can I think of one law that would have stopped Las Vegas. Let the fun and games continue!

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1176986175768751/?type=3&theater

Gun control education, liberal style. Guess Gun violence is ok if only beer bellied redneck country music lubing at eliminated. BTW, country music is bigger than rock-n-roll in this country, but I digress. Back to the liberal lovefest:

https://100percentfedup.com/liberal-teachers-social-media-message-goes-viral-lots-white-trump-supporters-las-vegas-asks-liberals-pray-trumptards-died/

http://truthfeednews.com/illinois-business-owner-praises-shooting-of-white-people-in-vegas/

[Paul Emery]

Bill

You are such a chump.

Oh yeah. Alex Jones believed Sandy Hook was a CIA staged event. Why in the world Bill would you quote such a certified nut?

In September 2014, conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who runs the website InfoWars, which had previously claimed that the murders were a "false flag" attack perpetrated by the government, made a new conspiracy claim: that "no one died" at Sandy Hook Elementary School because the Uniform Crime Reports showed no murders in Newtown for 2012, and that the victims were "child actors."

[Bill Tozer]

Yes Paul, I know that Sandy Hook CIA conspiracy theory all to well. First I heard of that kind of nonsense was an whole hour devoted to proving that Sandy Hook never happened.....one afternoon when I made the mistake of listening to the “proof” on KVMR. I listened to the whole thing and afterward I was almost convinced that Sandy Hook never happened, until I laughed at my foolish passing thoughts.
That was before I heard of Alex Jones. But, to be fair, Alex Jones has been spot on other things that you have no interest in, such as the Hillary Clinton e-mails run through her homebrewed server and what happened in Benghazi. One man’s trash is another man’s poison.

Besides Alex Jones, do you really think more laws are the fix? Last I looked, rape is against the law and Europe is having a rape epidemic. See any connection? Even if the NRA never existed, Sandy Hook, The Pulse, and Vegas would have happened. You cannot legislate evil.

[Paul Emery]

Bill

I think appropriate laws do help and send a message to sellers and buyers that accumulating illegal firearms is against the law. It's not a fix all. Crazy people with guns degrade the intent of the 2nd amendment and make it difficult to come up with a solution. What limits do you believe are appropriate to prevent the accumulation of an arsenal such as that which was used in Vegas? Should there be any limits?

[Don Bessee]

Degrade the intent of the 2nd amendment? You clearly have no clue what the framers of the constitution intended however the SCOUTS has defined its current meaning and you just hate it. That reminds me I need to go buy a case of shells. ;-)

[Paul Emery]

Have at it Don if that's what you need to do.

Do you think the framers of the Constitution intended for nut cases to be able to purchase 20 automatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition?

[Gregory]

Don, I think Big 5 is again selling 500 rounds of Winchester 22LR ammo packaged in very nice retro pine boxes, one-third off. The ammo is US made, the pine box is Hecho en Chine. Nice for $40, two thousand rounds out the door for $160. Nice!

Pauls, if the definition of a "nut case" is someone diagnosed with a mental illness, nut cases aren't allowed to buy or possess weapons or ammunition, so you're just spouting nonsense. Perhaps you're trying to build the case that since anyone who wants to buy one of those icky guns is a nutcase, anyone who wants to buy a gun and ammunition to match must be crazy and therefore forbidden to do so.

[Don Bessee]

While there is evidence that he had installed shoulder bumpers there has been no evidence he purchased automatic weapons. To the contrary the most recent report I read today said he made legal purchases in AZ and NV with full background checks. The LV Sheriff just said he was not aware of any automatic weapons. So the laws were followed on the purchases. No one has yet come up with a predictor for an eruption of evil. A rich guy with multiple homes, an airplane and a lavish gambling lifestyle is not the usual mass murder profile. Pink pussy hat pic and the antifa angle are intriguing though. ;-)

[Bill Tozer]

No one can purchase 20 automatic weapons. Bogus. A gun dealer can purchase one, but the process can take up to 15 months, through the Feds’ Federal Firearms Permit process, not to mention complying with various State Laws. It’s up to the States since Congress was purposefully restricted by the founders of the US Constitution on the issue.

But, let’s put that bogus agrument of someone legally purchasing 20 machine guns aside.

“As evil as this massacre was, gun controllers took to the microphone before any facts surrounding this atrocity were unveiled. Leftists immediately screamed about how their preferred policies would have prevented this tragedy without presenting any facts to back up their claim.”

https://patriotpost.us/articles/51637

I know. Let’s have a Constitutional Admendment. 3/4 of the State Legislatures would have to sign on and agree to the changes of our 2nd Amendment, the guarantor of the First and other Amendments. Let’s see. The R’s are only a few States short of having that 3/4 State houses under their control. That’s the way it’s done, the way our founders envisioned the whole ball of wax.

[George Rebane]

As forecast, the predictable bullshit has started flowing. And the Left is lapping it up as if it were ambrosia from heaven.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 03 October 2017 at 01:01 PM

Do you think the framers of the Constitution intended for nut cases to be able to purchase 20 automatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition?

....and with that naked appeal to emotion Mr. Emery has forfeited the match....if you'll follow the smartly uniformed attendant she will show you off stage and present you with a home version of our game.

[Barry Pruett]

"Do you think the framers of the Constitution intended for nut cases to be able to purchase 20 automatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition?" You know Paul...I don't know. Did they intend that citizens have the right "to purchase 20 automatic rifles and thousands of rounds of ammunition?" Probably. It is a different question regarding nut cases. Who decides who is a nut case? The government? I don't know if there is a solution. At this time, your garden variety liberal would likely demand that, if you voted for Trump, you are clearly a nut case and should not own a weapon.

"The Founding Fathers, having just broken away from Great Britain, understood the new federal government they were ratifying might one day become just as tyrannical. If it had the authority to control citizen access to firearms, then it could disarm them, just as the British attempted to do. This would make any attempts to restore liberties futile."

How do we balance the public safety and protection from a tyrannical government as the founders intended? It is a difficult question that we have debated for a long time. I do know that, based on empirical evidence, restricting gun ownership does not necessarily equate to less gun-related deaths. Look at Chicago...Chicago racks up 50 gun-related deaths a month, and they have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

I will watch this debate avidly in order to peel back the rhetoric and hopefully find a solution to a seemingly impossible dichotomy. I do appreciate reading your thoughts on the matter.

[Russ]

NICK GILLESPIE: This Is the Time To Defend the Second Amendment and Less-Strict Gun Control: Anti-gun activists are pushing for a crackdown in the wake of the Vegas shooting. That’s understandable but wrong. They demand a sacrifice of liberty to their god the State.

Writes Gillespie:

It’s not cold-blooded or Vulcan to point out that we remain in the midst of an unprecedented deceleration of violent crime and gun crime. Surely that has some connection to policies over the past quarter-century or so that have made it easier for a wide variety of people to legally own and carry guns.

“From 1993 to 2015, the rate of violent crime declined from 79.8 to 18.6 victimizations per 1,000 persons age 12 or older,” says the Bureau of Justice Statistics in its most recent comprehensive report (published last October, using data through 2015). Over the same period, rates for crimes using guns dropped from 7.3 per 1,000 people to 1.1 per 1,000 people. The homicide rate is down from 7.4 to 4.9. These are not simply good things, they are great things. They are the essential backdrop of all discussions about gun crime and mass shootings, even as we grieve the people killed nonsensically in Vegas.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/03/this-is-the-time-to-defend-the-second-am

This is all about grabbing power, and the facts do not matter. Just like a lot of other lefty causes, like climate change. It is all about grabbing power.

[Paul Emery]

Thank you Barry for your openness to different ideas.

Gregory, George, Fish Scott amd Walt in my view your views on the 2nd Amendment and gun rights in general seem be in agreement with Bill O'Reilly who recently said "“This is the price of freedom, Violent nuts are allowed to roam free until they do damage, no matter how threatening they are."........

“The Second Amendment is clear that Americans have a right to arm themselves for protection,” O’Reilly wrote. “Even the loons."

[Don Bessee]

Politifact blew up the liberal talking point from the NYT that there were more gun deaths since 1968 than all deaths in US wars. They totally blew up the number of military deaths as wildly low. The big part was their citing the 2013 CDC numbers that said 63% of gun deaths were suicides, 33% were homicides, 1% ea for accidents, undetermined causes and LE interventions ( yes cops only shot 1% of the total ).

Again the left never misses a tragedy opportunity to push the false narrative party parrot talking points often used by the likes of our resident po' ol' fakenewsman. In his case being a druid may be part of his disconnect. People of the book recognize evil lives among us and must be fought by the faithful. ;-)

[Walt]

OK,,,,

"Enforcing immigration law is tyrannical, but rounding up hate thinkers is noble. Police drawing guns on minorities is an outrage, but law enforcement mowing down armed rednecks is something to aspire to. The president criticizing left-wing journalists is a sign of fascism, but shutting down right-wing “fake news” on Facebook is necessary."

[Walt]

Paul if someone is hell bent on killing people they will do it.
If not by gun, then by some other means. Forget so soon about London? Going to ban trucks? Cars? Name you possible weapon.

Not one law would have stopped this Paul, and you know it.
Just like all the laws on the books about drugs. Crack down on opioids.. Yup,, that's going to go far . Just more break ins somewhere,, and with a gun most likely. Felons are not supposed to have them... Like that has stopped them.
Let's have some more LIB claptrap on "we need laws!"

[Paul Emery]

Walt, Don

So you agree with O'Reilly saying its the price of freedom. That's another way of saying "shit happens". Would you be willing to tell that to the friends and family of the victims of Vegas?

[fish]

Walt, Don......at this point all Punch can do is virtue signal and emote. You're wasting your time trying to discuss anything with him.

[Don Bessee]

Too true Fish. Would the po' ol' fakenewsman be willing to tell the victims that evil exists? ;-)

[fish]

Seen elsewhere........

It's obvious from the divergent reactions to last night's shooting, on top of the year-long-triggering that has become our new public discourse, that the nation is coming apart. To be sure, there's plenty of noise amplification due to social media, but it is amplifying opinions that are less fringe than they were 10 years ago and did not really exist 20 years ago. We no longer have a shared narrative to guide us forward together, so we will go forward apart.

I suspect that the lunacy, the nastiness, and the rage are going to get worse -- far worse -- before they get better, mostly because I don't think they're going to get better for a century. Civilizational collapse tends to be that way. And make no mistake, that's what we are staring down.

The first lesson a larval systems analyst is taught when diagnosing a problem is to ask, "What's changed?" If the code ran fine yesterday and it's broken today, then something new has been introduced. Find that thing and you'll likely find the problem.

The Second Amendment has been around since 1791. Americans have always had guns, lots of guns, even before we were Americans. That hasn't changed, ergo that is not the problem.

But individuals using them on innocents for maximum effect is new. So what has changed? Lots and lots of things, and they are woven into the fabric of our current culture. It's not gay marriage or broken families or diversity*, but the underlying problem with all of them. We are collectively living for today and nothing else. No past, no future, no God, no vision. Nothing but appetite.

In our quest to grasp the trendy, we have torn down the fences that prior generations erected. And we have done so just because they were there, and without asking them or even ourselves why they were erected. We build ugly buildings filled with ugly art. We pipe ugliness into our homes via satellite with a monthly subscription. Half of us are on antidepressants. We eulogize the pornographers of our youth but our kids don't know what sex they are.

It is no wonder we are going mad, in little groups, in big groups, and individually. "Senseless" shootings, if indeed that's what this is, are evidence that the sweat of our collective insanity is starting to flow through some of the weaker pores. But this will not cool the body. It will inflame the body.

Now, I'm not saying any of this to criticize America or the West - there is simply no need for that. I'm saying that this is the position in which we today find ourselves. We can howl and moan and vote** about it, but I suspect that it's not going to make much difference in any macro sense. This road goes somewhere very bad, and drag your heels all you want, there are millions of your neighbors slavering like huskies and dragging our collective sleigh at top speed. They want to go there.

The shootings are going to get worse. The crime is going to get worse. The violence is going to get worse. And then it's going to get organized. And then it's going to get nasty. We may not get all the way there in my lifetime, and I am certainly aware of the dangers of extrapolating current trends into an unknown future. But the trajectory looks that way and the trend has plenty of support to continue, from people, institutions, even inertia.

This mad carousel may go on for a while, maybe a long while. Or it may not***. When it stops, you'd better be where you want to be, surrounded by the people you want near you. Teach your kids, support your church, love your neighbor, get to know your sheriff. And as much as possible, physically stay the hell out of the way.

Something wicked this way comes.

* by which is meant a generation raised to identify themselves primarily by hues, genitals, or sexual disorientations. By which is also meant establishing hostile microcultures, like Roman settlements without the order, throughout the nation.

** While voting matters, I fully suspect that significant change will be imposed from outside the current constitutional order. Nature abhors a vacuum.

*** much of that depends on the dollar, and how many we will print before the futility of something-for-nothing becomes too obvious to ignore.

The Last Great Century of Man.....

[Paul Emery]

I agree there is no need to continue this conversation since the "price of freedom" argument is way beyond compromise and reason. We'll find something else to chat about I'm sure.

[Don Bessee]

Now that's funny @ 440. ;-)

[Bonnie McGuire]

Gregory. Stop hammering Paul, or anyone who questions vaccinating children. Many doctors say too many are being given to young children, and they do believe it's caused the rise in autism regardless of those pushing vaccination. Also there are many parents who witnessed first hand what happened to their child following vaccination. All medicine affects people differently. That's why there are so many side affects listed, along with all the lawsuits. If you pay attention you're aware of it. Plenty of advertising on TV.

[Account Deleted]

The 'price of freedom' argument is hardly 'beyond reason'.
It's quite simple, really. We can pass all sorts of laws that would have stopped the shooting at Sandy Hook and the Mandalay Bay shooter, etal.
But would you want to live with those laws? And are you willing to stomach the staggering number of deaths by both civilians, and law enforcement officials as they go about enforcing such laws? I can't speak for Paul, but I know it wouldn't be any sort of country I'd want to live in.

[Bill Tozer]

1) Great Post @ 4:34 pm. What has changed? Whatever it is, it has not been for the better.

2). My thoughts concerning an armed citizenry has been seen on bumper stickers almost all my entire life: “I love my country but fear my government.” Today the libs carry signs that basically say, “ I love government and hate my country.”

3) Our founders had a well deserved deep distrust of government. They believed forcefully that government is a necessary evil to be constantly restrained and always limited. To quote another, ‘The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.”

“Some one has justly remarked, that ‘eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.’ Let the sentinels on the watch-tower sleep not, and slumber not.”
May 2, 1833 edition of The Virginia Free Press and Farmers' Repository

Let the

[Bonnie McGuire]

One more thing that's disgusting to me. We have an opioid problem in America! You want to know the horrific reason why? For many years our public school system was pushing drugs on young children supposedly to help them...instead of old fashioned discipline. I watched it being done to a family member. Thank God his parents wouldn't be badgered, and brought their attorney to school. They wouldn't listen to the parents. They listened to the attorney who asked how the boy's grades were. The answer was "okay" so they were breaking the law and getting $420 per kid turned on to Ritalin or Adderall. A Sacramento attorney was enraged our schools were drug pushers. If you paid attention there were many documentaries about the damage done to our future generation...mostly boys. Now it's a. If deal in colleges. If you get a little to hyped on Adderall and can't sleep you're prescribed the addictive opioid Zanax. Young college students are pretending to suffer from ADHD in order to get prescriptions to get high. Now...locally we have a terrible homeless problem because there are so many down and out human beings trying to survive. Most are drug addicts and alcoholics. Do the research that shows the cause and effect results of those we're supposed to trust.

[uired to take behavioy control]

Thanks for bringing that up Bonnie. I don't have a firm opinion on the topic but the combination of education being compulsory and saying you have to vaccinate you children in order to attend is a huge government over reach. Autism is a huge concern to many families who blame injections for the affliction. What bothers me is their ability to add new shots at their whim without careful evaluation by parent groups. It could be just a matter of time when children could be required to take behavior control drugs to stay in school.

The option of home schooling is not available to working families so they are stuck having to take shots in order to go to school and fulfill their legal obligations.

[George Rebane]

ScottO 510pm - The limits to progressives' ability to reason are real. There is a whole host of societal issues for which their ability to overcome the teachings of the Frankfurt School is literally absent. Understanding the role of broad-based gun ownership by a free people in a democratic republic that has served as the beneficial hegemon of western civilization and now of world order is beyond their ken. That is why the Great Divide is real and growing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School

[Walt]

Paul dismisses the use of vehicles as terror weapons. Yet they still kill more than guns daily. How bout booze? Everyone know not to drink and drive, yet do it anyway. Many lost the privilege to drive yet no real punishment for the repeat offenders.
Plenty of lip service is given to DUI,, but I have yet to hear a bitch about all the bars with parking lots.

The Yuba River has killed more people than my guns.(or all the guns in the county for that matter) Yet no push to close that river.
Shut down HY49. Lives will be saved.

LIBS will always blame that hunk of steal for the killing,, not the bastard pulling the trigger. "if only"...

[Bill Tozer]

Psittaciformes @ 4:40 pm penned:
“I agree there is no need to continue this conversation since the "price of freedom" argument is way beyond compromise and reason”

Hmm. Perhaps our Popinjay meant to write “the ‘price of freedom’ argument is way beyond compromise and my reasoning abilities.” There. Makes sense now. Much better.

[Don Bessee]

ATF at press conf. update just said NO automatic weapons just shoulder bump stocks used in LV which are legal since they don't really make it into an automatic. The guns were legally purchased. Well that just crumbled the fakenews party parrot narratives foundation. ;-)

[Gregory]

Paul 333pm

Isn't that special... you can't see any difference so there must not be.

I've never been a fan of O'Reilly, and that screed is a fine example why.

"This is the price of freedom, Violent nuts are allowed to roam free until they do damage, no matter how threatening they are... The Second Amendment is clear that Americans have a right to arm themselves for protection... Even the loons."

Now, I'm trusting you, Paul, to have gotten the quote right because I didn't dig out OReilly's words from an original source and in the past you've been unclear on what a proper quote is. But no, when someone is "loony" enough to be "threatening", they need to be adjudicated to be nuts so that the power of the state can be used to strip rights from them, including the right to keep and bear arms which includes more than just guns.

I've thought all along that we needed to wait until we have information about the guy and what he's done. The latest seems to be that none of the weapons he had were fully automatic and a couple had "bump stocks" affixed in order to get a high rate of fire. Personally, I've never seen the point of the "bump stocks" that give you the rate of fire close to a full auto but with greatly lessened accuracy which, in the case of shooting fish in a barrel or Country Western concertgoers, isn't a big drawback.

Putting a Bump Stock ban, classifying it as an NFA item, in with the silencer bill when it comes back up for air might be a good and passable idea.

Still no word on the guy's politics but he did spend a number of years as a Federal employee including Postal Service and IRS. Interestink.

[Paul Emery]

Why is his politics important Gregory?

[Gregory]

BMcG "

"Gregory. Stop hammering Paul, or anyone who questions vaccinating children. Many doctors say too many are being given to young children, and they do believe it's caused the rise in autism regardless of those pushing vaccination. Also there are many parents who witnessed first hand what happened to their child following vaccination. All medicine affects people differently. That's why there are so many side affects listed, along with all the lawsuits. If you pay attention you're aware of it."

And some believe in the Easter Bunny, Bonnie.

A friend of mine, without their child being in any particular risk to vaccines, refused them. A bright woman, with a bright husband, they were more afraid of them because of all the claims to the contrary.

Until they almost had a child die of pertussis (aka Whooping Cough). After that, they got their kids vaccinated and thought their lucky stars they didn't lose them.

There are kids who really can't take vaccine. They need the herd immunity to keep them from get ill, and others who got the vaccination but it didn't take. Including folks like my first wife when she was taking chemotherapy and was trying to stay alive, and she couldn't take vaccinations... and yes, she was teaching during her 18 month slide.

So, shove it, Bonnie, Paul's hypocrisy was palpable... how many kids would die without vaccinations? Isn't one too many?

[Bill Tozer]

Answer: Motive. Answers the big question, “Why, why, why?”

[Gregory]

Give that Toes a kewpie doll for getting it right.

"Hurry hurry hurry, there's so much time and so little to do!" - Willy Wonka

[Gregory]

And another response to Punch-E's 7:45pm... because I think it's likely there was a political statement at the core of the deed and we should know what it is. Whatever it is.

[Bill Tozer]

I think we have been barking up the wrong tree. The Left and MSM steals and stirs the narrative and makes it all about gun control. They show pictures of misnamed or misidentified firearms and we have to explain it all over again to them, time and time again. What the heck is a “military-style rifle” anyways? Military rifles are fully automatic. Do they mean the preferred deer hunting rifle looks like a machine gun? And on and on it goes.

We have been focusing on the tree, not the forest. America took the distraction hook, line, and sinker. The forest is the motive or motives.

Red flags:
1) The FBI dismissed any link to terrorism (Islamic terrorism) within 3 hours while bodies where still laying on the ground. Before the $100k wired to the Philippines was revealed. Well before any Russian collusion has been uncovered after a year of investigating. 3 hours. They know everything they need to know in 3 hours concerning the shooter’s life history?

2) In a recent press conference, LE said they have the cameras Stephen Paddock used in the hotel room but do not know if he had set the cameras up. WTF??? Explain that one to me.

Not yelling conspiracy, but LE is holding back, sandbagging from the get-go. They are keeping mum and only doing selective leaks....to the foreign press. Then the Sheriff caught himself almost mid sentence saying Paddock may have been radicalized....then mum. It is good to play your cards close to the vest and I get that. Even a little disinformation to throw persons of interest off. And IF the shooter was radicalized or sympathetic to any number of causes, then it is best not to tip off those under surveillance. I think I will chill on the weapon and focus on the shooter more, much more. We will know more in a month or two.

Bottomline: It’s not the firearms, it’s the motive behind all the painstaking detailed methodical planning to kill as many people as possible, from 400-500 yards while a concert was blasting music.

Oh yeah,a meme...just cause.
https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/rpp.217926015008110/1177344335732935/?type=3&theater

[uired to take behavioy control]

Gregory writes:

likely there was a political statement at the core of the deed and we should know what it is. Whatever it is.

What do you anticipate the statement to read Gregory. Walt has already predetermined it to be confession he is a LIB

By the way Todd any updates to your contention he was an anti Trump activist?

[fish]

Posted by: uired to take behavioy control | 04 October 2017 at 02:27 PM

Hmmmm….interesting alias Paul!

[Bill Tozer]

I ain’t buying the lone wolf shooter official gov’t line....just yet.

[Walt]

I say a LIB took one for the team. OH! he took Valium too!
All the "evil" weapons LIBS hate, high capacity magazines(LIBS hate and demonize), Legal modifications, a new hate is coming on,
and shoots up a huge amount of perceived Trump supporters and "gun nuts".
You will find some devout LIBs lighting candles at the asshole's grave.

A crazed LIB just took a page out of the ISIS playbook.

[fish]

….sigh…..guess I need to strap on my "Shocked Face" again.

Demand For "Bump Fire Stocks" Surge, Prices Double As Fears Of Imminent Ban Mount

Somebody is going to get rich as they put on a second and third shift at the bump fire stock factory!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/demand-bump-fire-stocks-surge-prices-double-fears-imminent-ban-mount

[Gregory]

"urired"

I don't anticipate nuttin'.

Patience, Grasshopper.

[Don Bessee]

Everyone should remember that it was the 0 admin that approved the shoulder bumper stocks. If you listen to the audio its not that much faster than what a trained shooter can do with a semi-auto. This guy had over 100k in high end guns. 30 background checks passed. An evil anomaly that would never have been tagged by a profile analysis. ;-)

[uired to take behavioy control]

Walt writes:

"I say a LIB took one for the team. OH! he took Valium too!"

Well spoken Walt, here for all Rebane readers to see what an idiot you are unless you are joking, which I doubt you are. .

[fish]

Posted by: uired to take behavioy control | 04 October 2017 at 04:29 PM

The real tragedy is that "Liberal" used to be the term applied to the live and let live, free enterprise and libertarian minded on the political spectrum. Of course it was co-opted…stolen if you will…. by the statist, control freak, cradle to grave government party endorsed by Punchy Mc Freeclinic.

[Don Bessee]

Note to PunchE FIX YOUR NAME ya po' ol' fakenewsman and take a minute to read the editorial by the liberal, pro gun control Leah Libresco in the Washington Post. ;-)

[Walt]

Seems like we have another Doug TROLL rearing his ugly head.
How come I won't be surprised?
Reported today that the nut was on Mamma's little helper.
Some DO have adverse side effects to Valium where they twist off and become homicidal.
I put NOTHING past radical LIBS these days. The media has really stoked the hate against Right leaning people.

You have a better explanation, He who refuses to use his name,?
Heck! I bet you could have pulled that off. (if you had his money)

[uired to take behavioy control]

He who refuses to use his name Walt? You must be referring to Fish

[Paul Emery]

He who refuses to use his name Walt? You must be referring to Fish
Ha

[Paul Emery]

One more time-on the run

He who refuses to use his name Don

Didn't gve credit where credit was due

[Walt]

Looks like Doug is off the hook.(this time)
Your not real good at fake names... Are You Paul?
You need to take the school of TROLLing class from Doug. ( 250+ fake accounts.)

[Don Bessee]

??? @501 ??? ;-)

[Walt]

Speaking of illegal guns,, some of Paul's pals (dope growers) just got busted. Huge grows,, and yup,, EVIL "assault weapons". 1500 plants. PULLED! Thousands of dollars seized,(yet the claim is no weed was sold)
Paul. there are laws on the books about all that. I guess we need more regs on dope growing.

[Walt]

Hay Paul... You know that "idiot" line you used? LOL!!!!
You smoking some of that MJ you claim to never use?

[Paul Emery]

Walt, if you wrote this you are a certified idiot.

"I say a LIB took one for the team. OH! he took Valium too!
All the "evil" weapons LIBS hate, high capacity magazines(LIBS hate and demonize), Legal modifications, a new hate is coming on,
and shoots up a huge amount of perceived Trump supporters and "gun nuts".
You will find some devout LIBs lighting candles at the asshole's grave."

Did you write this yes or no,

[John]

Paul Emery you are hardly qualified to judge anyone on anything, particularly when it comes to writing ridiculous things. You are the hands down champion on that subject.

[Walt]

Paul.. Just WHAT is inaccurate? Take another hit off the bong.

[BunBun]

Walt is furiously polishing his barrel...

[Walt]

Good thing the cops took your guns years ago Doug.
I'm surprised you haven't done the same yet.

[Paul Emery]

There is absolutely no truth to back up your statement. Lets just take one. "I say a LIB took one for the team."

what team? What evidence do you have to support your allegations? You are delusional and pretty nuts and goofy to say something like that Walt.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 October 2017 at 06:48 PM

There is absolutely no truth to back up your statement.

You are the best! I've been laughing at this for 5 minutes!

[fish]

Posted by: Walt | 04 October 2017 at 06:41 PM

Was KeachKeach deemed a danger to himself or to the community?

[Walt]

Well "I" think so Fish, He did go off the deep end when The Union comments went dark. He was saying some real bizarre things here, and on other blogs.
Now he's one of the most hated TROLLS on the web.
He really gets pissed when I bring up his getting busted for using a video camera inside the Del Oro.
What was your excuse Doug?,,, Oh, " There was no sign saying I couldn't."
Nope some people think laws just don't apply to them.
Right Doug? Or do your prefer "Lavender" this evening? OOpps,, you deleted that one. Maybe Lonsomedove? You have been using that one a lot lately.
A person that uses so many AKA's has to be mentally unstable.

[Walt]

One more thing for the night.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/04/chicago-alone-accounts-for-10-percent-of-mass-shootings-in-the-us/
"The Gun Violence Archive, a nonprofit that tracks gun violence in America, defines mass shooting as incidents where “FOUR or more shot and/or killed in a single event, at the same general time and location not including the shooter.” "

And having had to deal with one good friend killing another not long ago I can say that I can't blame the gun. We all were told access to the guns was gone. And right up until I drove into a crime scene, I would never have believed he could have done what he did.

Anyone can't do just about anything when they put their mind to it. This loon had the means and the smarts.
We will never know his twisted reasoning, and no amount of law writing or right restricting is going to stop the next nut hell bent on causing mass destruction.
Yet Ca. sees fit to decriminalize crime. Even gun theft isn't that big a crime anymore. ANY gun theft was a felony in the state. Now the weapon only needs to be less than 800 bucks, and it's a misdemeanor. That's tough on gun crime.. Thanks LIBS.

[Gregory]

For readers who take stock in research from FiveThirtyEight

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html

[Paul Emery]

Speaking of AKA's Waly you never ask what Fish's real name is.

[fish]

Posted by: Paul Emery | 04 October 2017 at 09:22 PM

Dave Larsen…..

Jeez Punch do your own work once and a while

[Don Bessee]

Somehow I think the po' ol' fakenewsman is perfectly aware of the Fish v the dark lord of liberal lament land history. ;-)

[fish]

Posted by: Don Bessee | 04 October 2017 at 09:43 PM

Given Punch-Es age, demeanor, and stilted erratic debating style as of late, I wouldn't make that assumption.

[Bill Tozer]

Too funny

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1177981689002533/?type=3&theater

Not funny. Just the facts, ma’am.

https://patriotpost.us/articles/51717

Reality. This is the voice of those who take the moral high ground. Would you let this person watch your kids?

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1178537228946979/?type=3&theater

Bottomline:

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1177982619002440/?type=3&theater

[Gregory]

Delayed reaction... Walt 821pm ... your friend who shot another friend wouldn't have been an old coot named Robert, would it?

Very sad story.

[Don Bessee]

In a classic unapologetic demonstration of liberal logic David Brooks on PBS just said that he wishes 'they' would pass all the proposed gun legislation. He also said that when Marco Rubio said in the campaign that none of the proposed gun laws would have stopped any of the mass shooting (at that time). He went on to add that the Washington Post fact checked that statement and they admitted Rubio is correct. Wat? ;-)

[George Rebane]

Re DonB's 657pm - Can you imagine that PBS has David Brooks as the conservative "balance" for liberal Mark Shields on its flagship News Hour? Only the liberal mind can invite that into the realm of reason.

[Don Bessee]

PBS applying that moniker on Brooks is a big lie technique, say it enough and the feeble minded will believe it as a go to fact. ;-)

[Walt]

Gregory... Yes, that be him. We all were close friends for years.
I never would have thought anything like that could happen with those two.

[Don Bessee]

Someone needs to clue Boardman in on what a machine gun is. Bump stocks do not a machine gun make. A machine gun has to be a much different creature than your run of the mill AR, special barrel and receiver that can take the heat. While the LV nut had to use a bunch of guns because they heated up and jammed,it is worth noting that he could have likely been able to get a license for a true machine gun as someone who passed 30 background checks. ;-)