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06 November 2017

Comments

Russ

Get Rid of Capitalism? Millennials Ready to Talk About It...

If you teach socialism in K-12 and reinforce it with liberal professors at college, this is what you get. Hey, do not get pissed now, we let it happen. We let the progs take over our schools and teach our kids, what were we expecting to happen? We lost two of our four to the dark side of liberalism.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-06/get-rid-of-capitalism-millennials-are-ready-to-talk-about-it

[Moved from samdbox]

Mary Wanna

The UN Agenda link directing the reader to sift through 351 pages and hopefully conclude that, “may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property.”, sounds like fun but I don't have the time. Why don't you point the reader to the page and paragraph?

As far as your embrace of TheFederalist.com goes, all I can say is,

"You enjoy your propaganda, I'll enjoy mine!"

A quick search of "The Federalist" comes up with this example of how TheFederalist.com works and shows how they attempt to plant information in sites they don't agree with,

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2014/09/18/1330706/-The-Federalist-vs-Wikipedia


fish

Posted by: Russ | 06 November 2017 at 04:32 PM

Venezuela is lovely this time of year……leave your pets at home though…….you know!

George Rebane

MaryW 434pm - I believe you are confused if you think anything in my commentary was intended to sway you from your beliefs. Has that not been firmly and repeatedly established in these pages?

For others, as mentioned above, RR's Agenda 21 category has posts with more references to A21 goals and the means of their implementation than you can shake a stick at.

Don Bessee

It should also be noted that it was the American hating socialist 0 who threw a lifeline to Cuba who had been propping up Venezuela at great expense. If not for that those two bastions of communism would have collapsed years ago. ;-)

Mary Wanna

GeorgeR 4:38pm - my comment had nothing to do with my beliefs. I am questioning your conclusions and the objectivity of your sources.

Perhaps you can point out what section of the UN document where it states under whatever heading of Means of Implementation that "private property will be abolished".

Since my question is probably unanswerable let's talk about the money that would need to be spent to fund all the feel good objectives contained in the Agenda 21 document. We will leave out the cost to purchase all the private property around the globe so that it can be given to the poor people.

Let's compare the Agenda 21 budget to the 2016 defense spending budget of the top 15 big spender nations. Just a reality check that $1.686 trillion was spent in just 365 days on guns and ammo so we can kill each other.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/04/24/the-top-15-countries-for-military-expenditure-in-2016-infographic/#300fe2543f32

Robert Cross

What about the vast majority of people on the planet for whom corporate capitalism has not worked? After all, the 5 wealthiest people on Earth have more money than the poorest 1/2. That is around 3.8 Billion people. It seems that some of the happiest folks on the planet live in countries that are characterized as 'social democracies'. You know, with all those things you all abhor like single payer health insurance or socialized medicine, stiff environmental and food laws (like no GMOs), high taxes, etc. to go along with companies that provide such things at male and female paid maternity leave, 4-6 week paid vacations, equal pay for men and women, etc. Perhaps the millennials distaste for corporate capitalism stems from evolutionary factors. They are faced with cleaning up capitalism's mess; environmentally, socially, and culturally. Maybe the only way out of this mess is for people to cooperate rather than compete. Maybe for the people to survive catastrophic weather events, the destruction of the ecosystem, robots, and greedy assholes, not only will people have to cooperate with one another but countries and religions as well. In other words, maybe the only way forward is a global governing authority like the UN (only with teeth) that all nations must belong to and be subject to international laws and agreements. You know, like a WTO for people instead of corporations. Like it or not that is what the future could hold.

History tells us that the more a plutocratic authoritarian regime fears a loss of control the more they clamp down on dissent causing even more resistance from the oppressed majority in an ever escalating cycle until one side vanquishes the other. We are seeing the beginnings of either a global transformation toward cooperation as exhibited by the signatories of the Paris climate agreement (except the US and Syria of course) or the birth of the evil corporate empire of science fiction lore.

Scott Obermuller

"...$1.686 trillion was spent in just 365 days on guns and ammo so we can kill each other."
So - who did you kill MJ?
We conservatives here haven't killed anyone.
Commies don't buy private property, they confiscate it - "for the people".
The really nice, expensive homes seem to always go magically to higher-ups in the party.
The crumbling concrete boxes are for the rabble.
Some animals are more equal than other animals.
Funny that.

Don Bessee

Products of the 'education mafia' are clearly on display in the 2 comments above. ;-)

Don Bessee

My 550p was done when Scott's 448 was not visible, so the 2 above Scott are products of the 'education mafia'. ;-)

George Rebane

In the Left's response to the above, I'd like to know whether they doubt communism's history, argue its efficacy as a form of governance, compare its vs capitalism's contribution to humanity over the last couple of centuries, or whether it is the fundamental direction that the Left now wants to take America. Perhaps there are even other important points that need to be aired.

I am not prepared to re-present the A21 case that is archived in that category, but will hear with interest all the arguments for proceeding toward some form of global government that doesn't become the realization of '1984'. For the innumerates and technology-shy readers, I remind them that tyranny is the most stable form of governance known to mankind, and technology abetted tyranny is stable on steroids.

Don Bessee

Dr. R, I think their world view could be summed up as- Free stuff is bitchin' dude. ;-)

Mary Wanna

"and technology abetted tyranny is stable on steroids", I give you thefedaralist.com and Russian meddling as proof of that.

I am not too sure what to make of trolls ScottO and DonB, do they represent the intellectual elite?

Big picture, nothing is changing anytime soon.

Sometimes push back is necessary when war hawks, or snowflakes, or gimme what you have, or, what's mine is mine types get a little too full of themselves. There are always exceptions to whatever boisterous proclamations you hear.

Steve Frisch

You do realize that when communists adopt market economies and private property they cease to be communists, don't you? They may be authoritarians and totalitarian but they aren't communists.

Bonnie McGuire

Glad I had friends and relatives who came to America from Germany and Russia seeking a better life. Their stories were a wonderful education why. America was a free enterprise country where ordinary ambitious people could realize their dreams....rather than what's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine too. Those who said anything bad about a communist (Socialist) disappeared.
Russia:
http://www.mcguiresplace.net/The%20Shot%20That%20Set%20The%20World%20On%20Fire
Germany:
http://www.mcguiresplace.net/Franc%20and%20Louise%20Wanda%20Luschen

Scott Obermuller

"I am not too sure what to make of trolls ScottO..."
I asked you a question Mary, in response to your assertion that 'we' are killing one another. I pointed out that 'we' conservatives haven't killed anyone.
So who have you killed?
Pretty simple for anyone with a room temp IQ. But maybe I'm expecting too much.
America must be a pretty awful place since folks by the billions (literally) still want to live here. And millions still risk their necks to come legally or not.
Never have had any lefty explain that one. Why aren't they fleeing to the socialist heavens you left wing nuts are so crazy about?
Notice how Commie China suddenly got super wealthy once they allowed limited capitalism vs earlier with no capitalism? Explain that little bit of inconvenient truth.
All of the wealthy socialist countries have capitalistic engines creating wealth.
The socialistic countries that don't allow capitalism are dirt holes.
But I'm sure that you lefties have a comical explanation.
We're waiting.

George Rebane

According to Mr Marx, no one has yet to be a pure communist - it just hasn't happened. But many times it's come close enough for government work when people from Lenin to Xi Jinping proudly call themselves communists. And for me and mine both here and in foreign lands, their enterprises have been sufficient to cause untold suffering and death - a quality of life of which our progressives are ignorant, yet toward which they eagerly march with as many lemmings as will follow.

And it warms the cochles of me heart to again confirm those who will show up to mitigate, extenuate, pardon, deny, minimize, and in general paper over the history and degradations of the most violent and despicable ideology practiced by Man.

Don Bessee

@814 - I will be sure to share that with my friends suffering in the real world. So that would be Venezuela, Cambodia, Iran, Syria and the rest? 23 paragraphs to follow from 814. ;-)

fish

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 06 November 2017 at 08:14 PM


Funny.....we’re racists and Nazis no matter what.

Steve Frisch

I am merely pointing out that almost every communist state in the world including all of eastern Europe, Russia, Cuba, China, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam have become market economies. The bottom line is communism lost and capitalism won. While you guys were asleep you won the war. Get it?

I am sure I will be painted as some sort of 5th column for globalism just by making this comment, but the real threat to American values and governance today is not global communism, and I would be the first to agree on how terrible communism was on the historical stage, it is state authoritarianism, which you all seem ready to embrace like a long lost child in your zeal to usher in a new American nationalism.

fish

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 07 November 2017 at 05:35 AM

I am sure I will be painted as some sort of 5th column for globalism just by making this comment...


Yes you will.


and I would be the first to agree on how terrible communism was on the historical stage...


Generally only if cornered or it furthers your argument.


...which you all seem ready to embrace like a long lost child in your zeal to usher in a new American nationalism.


As opposed to.....?

Scott Obermuller

So what is wrong with 'American nationalism"? Founded on principles of liberty and freedom. An economic giant that has and is attracting people from all over the world.
A nation that accepts folks from all over so long as they come legally and bring a desire to become Americans in spirit as well as fact.
Our generosity and helping other peoples all over the world put to shame other wealthy nations.
What kind of sick, twisted mind has a problem with that?

Steve Frisch

"...new American nationalism..." Scott.

Todd Juvinall

What is the antitheist to American Nationalism? Globalism I guess? Well it appears to me the world's countries would rather be smaller than larger and we have seen that since the 60's when colonial powers got booted. England, Yugoslavia and its sub-countries, now Catalan. Even little islands around the planet want to be their own boss. So American nationalism is just fine too. Sort of like you live in your house and want to control your life their rather than having Steve Frisch come in and tell you what to do.,

George Rebane

Administrivia - I draw your kind attention to the just added addendum to the above commentary.

American nationalism - longtime RR readers will recall that such Westphalian nationalism has been one of the promoted tenets of how global societies should organize themselves. This structure, which is pursued today by more and more distinct cultures seeking their own place in the sun, is the antithesis of what global collectivists are visibly seeking to put in place. In these pages we note and welcome such individuals in this discussion.

Scott Obermuller

"new American nationalism"
What is that and who is implementing it?

Scott Obermuller

Bueller?

Bill Tozer

From Dr. Rebane’s Addendum:
“our educated youth cannot admit the independent significance of scholarship, philosophy, enlightenment and universities. To this day, they subordinate them to the interests of politics, parties, movements and circles.” Does that have a familiar ring to it on 21st century American campuses?

Answer: Heck yes.

1). “If there is one lesson the communist century should have taught, it is that the independent authority of universal moral principles cannot be an afterthought, since it is the conviction on which all of civilization depends.” —David Satter

2) Horrifying stat of the day: “An October 2016 poll by the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation generated a stunning finding: almost one-third of Millennials ‘believe more people were killed under George W. Bush than under Joseph Stalin.’ And it isn’t only those silly Millennials. More than one in four Americans generally believe Bush was the bigger killer.” —Paul Kengor

3) “A key to the problem can be seen even in critiques of this Communist hagiography by conservatives, who remind everyone that Communism ‘doesn’t work.’ That seems a funny kind of understatement, like saying that dousing yourself with gasoline and setting yourself on fire ‘doesn’t work.’ It implies some kind of idealistic goal for which the adherents of Communism choose unrealistic means. But the bloody, grinding history of Communism — and most especially the fact that it went on and on and continues even today, many decades after no one can have any illusions — suggests that oppression and murder is the goal.” —Robert Tracinski

Scott Obermuller

The quote from R Tracinski is not a totally accurate picture of what adherents to socialism or communism believe. I do think most collectivists honestly believe that there is a governmental/social model somewhere out there that will allow a fair and just society for all. The main division point between those folks and promoters of free market capitalism is what they believe about human nature. That we are basically good and criminal activity only comes from good people deprived of their 'rights' to stuff.
History and science show otherwise. Greed and lusting for power emerge from humans no matter what their station in life or type of economic system they operate under.
Small, cohesive social groups can work in a cooperative manner so long as their goals in life and their values are tightly bound. But the binding must come from within and not from any sort of top down dictate.
Longing for a communism that 'works' is an understandable goal for those who feel overwhelmed by the necessities of working and striving in this world. They long for the garden of Eden they feel they are owed.
And of course there are the few that advocate a collectivist govt as they know perfectly well where it will lead and they desire that kind of power over others.

George Rebane

BillT 452am - Thanks for those citations Mr Tozer. The one about the Millennials especially highlights the ignorance of the local Left who continue to think that that generation has no outstanding intellectual deficits.

Bonnie McGuire

This morning I was reading How the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia’s Views on Islam, Economy Could Change Country. How can anyone trust any of these morally-money-corrupt people regarding our swampy global government. Yesterday I was researching the Westphalian peace treaties of Western Europe (1648) ending 30 years of religious wars. The study inadvertently led to what the former leader of al-Qaeda terrorists "Sheikh" Louis Atiyyatullah had to say about the Treaty. He declared (2004) that "the international system built up by the West since the Treaty of Westphalia will collapse; and a new international system will rise under the leadership of a mighty Islamic state." Interesting when you look at what's been going on with the multitude of Islam immigrants flooding into Europe and America. As someone once said, "The way a person thinks is their religion." The never ending war between ideals, wealth and power.

Russ

Why Won’t The Nightmare Dream Of Communism Die? A century of Communism achieved four main results: poverty, oppression, war, and mass death. So why does anybody still think collectivism is ‘idealistic’?

http://thefederalist.com/2017/11/07/wont-nightmare-dream-communism-die/#.WgPCTM8Q9hI.facebook

Ponzi schemes capitalize on greed. Communism capitalizes on envy, which is why it’s largely sustained by intellectuals, in whose personalities envy tends to be a particularly powerful component. [Glenn Reynolds]

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