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« ‘Are We Free to Discuss America’s Real Problems?’ | Main | Scattershots – 20feb18 »

19 February 2018

Comments

Don Bessee

Reality check for the po' ol' fakenewsman-

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/19/flashback-national-institute-justice-federal-assault-weapon-ban-not-reduce-crime/

;-)

Scott Obermuller

PE at 8:56 - never answers questions, just keeps asking them.
If you wish to get rid of the 2nd A - go for it.
Until then, it's the law.
Deal with it.

Bill Tozer

The Australian Gun Confiscation Debate

https://patriotpost.us/articles/54196-the-australian-gun-confiscation-debate

Gregory

How many cases of homicide by arson took their place, Paul? Or homicide by vehicular hit and run?

If availability of firearms were a factor in how many people killed themselves or others, immigrants to the USA from, oh, Australia or Japan would show a large increase in violent deaths. Are there?

Thanks for taking the hood off... you are talking about confiscations. Don't be bashful.

Bill Tozer

Mentally ill. 25% of the US population? Well, that coincidentally dovetails with the number of adults in the US that self identify as “Far Left” or “liberal”. Said it once, say it again. If we could prevent liberal “Democrats” from owning guns, the number of mass shootings would drop like a rock, but I digress.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/16/disarming-individuals-with-mental-illnes

Walt

As usual, the LIBS ignore facts.
Knives kill more people in the long run.
Yet those are cash and carry.

Walt

The last time this happened, the push was on to ban zombie chainsaw attachments to any rifle with an attachment rail.
Since the shooter didn't have one this time, it's no big deal.

Gregory

More about the dark side of the Aussie confiscation...

https://reason.com/archives/2016/03/22/australias-gun-buyback-created-a-violent

Yes, the bikies learned how to supply the need.

Or, as one commenter put it... That's not a rocket launcher. *This* is a rocket launcher.

Scenes

re: PaulE @ 8:56AM

"What are the lives saved in Australia worth to you Gregory?"

For God's sake, why do I even read this guy's posts? Does he research his opinions even a little bit?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Gun_Deaths.png/1024px-Gun_Deaths.png

Walt

About time someone did their job.
http://wjla.com/news/local/police-guns-ammunition-vest-found-at-home-of-student-arrested-for-having-gun-at-md-hs

Xeno

Sorry Scotto, semi autos are what the crackpots take to the mass shootings.

Semi autos are designed to kill people in firefights.

What does our government do when certain drugs are abused or can be abused?

The FDA restricts their availability and makes them available through prescription only. How do they do that Scotto Right Wing Wacko? Well, Scotty, they have a medical professional determine if the person is physically and mentally fit to be given the prescription.

What is the difference between a drug and a device like a gun that can be abused if it gets into the wrong hands?

Local hypocrites want to regulate the hell out of marijuana but, Dear Lord, don't even think about regulating the hell out of guns!

Sad!

Paul Emery

Thanks for verifying my position Scenes. what is your speculation as to why Australia has fewer gun deaths than the U,S,?

Bill Tozer

Xeno

The huge difference is that bearing guns is a right that shall not be infringed. I don’t think growing, smoking, or selling pot is a right that shall not be infringed, but I could be wrong.

Bill Tozer

Austrialia has fewer gun deaths than the US because Austrialia does not have large widespread inner city ghetto scum as found across the US in cities controlled by the Democrats for the last 40-50 years. If you remove black on black homicide, the US would have one of the lowest murder rates in the Civilized World.

The other difference is the US citizens have rights that predate the Constitution, rights endowed by their creator that predates Government. The right to bear arms is to protect the citizenry from those from government who would attempt to confiscate the citizenry’s firearms.

Paul Emery

Florida and Vegas were the opposite of black on black violence Bill. How do you explain that?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 20 February 2018 at 01:50 PM


How do you explain that?

Xeno

Bill, The Second Amendment right to bear arms is not infringed.

It shall only be available by 'prescription' as long as you are not unhinged.

Bill Tozer

13% of the population committ 53% of the homicides in the US. Nothing to explain, Punchy. Thought you want to save children, but I guess with your focus is on white people attending a Country Music Concert in Vegas and white kids in Florida. You appear not to care about black children all in all. Otherwise you would be commenting on the 13% of the population commiting 53% of the homicides in the US non-stop, day in and day out, month in and month out. Guess some folks care more about worshipping a plant than about black US citizen children.

Xeno

Buh-Bye Bump Stocks

Walt

So "xen",,, when did you lose the right to own guns?, and why??

Scott Obermuller

Xeno at 2:11 - They're banning rubber bands?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 20 February 2018 at 01:50 PM


How do you explain that?

fish

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 20 February 2018 at 02:18 PM


Emo can’t conceive of a thing if he can’t just buy it! Probably part of the reason he gets so worked up when restricting pot purchases is discussed.

Gregory

Xeno the Warrior Princess wants to infringe on gun rights with the same model that has given us the opioid crisis. What could go wrong?


No Xeno, no Punchy. There are perhaps 330 *million* guns owned by individuals in the USA, those guns will not be going away on a whim, and a "right" becomes a privilege when you have to ask a bureaucrat "mother, may I?" before it is exercised.

Scott Obermuller

Xeno is lost in space - "Sorry Scotto, semi autos are what the crackpots take to the mass shootings.
Semi autos are designed to kill people in firefights.
What does our government do when certain drugs are abused or can be abused?"
Restricted drugs have no other use than to be abused. That's why they are restricted.
99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 percent of the time semi autos are used it is legitimate and harmless.
I notice that Xeno and Paul will not come right out and propose anything specific.
Are you or are you not proposing confiscating fire arms owned by law abiding citizens?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 20 February 2018 at 01:50 PM


How do you explain that?

Gregory

Scott, the fixation on Australia signals they think a "buyback" with a below value compensation and criminal penalties for noncompliance is apropos. In other words, a partially compensated confiscation.

Paul and "Xeno" might not be aware that no one knows how many semi-automatic centerfire pistols and rifles there are among the guessed at 330 million. Estimates are something approaching 50%.

Xeno

Oh Boy, Looks like the Conservative's SCOTUS picks are backfiring, get it? Only #me too perp Clarence Thomas seems to be on gun lover's page.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/clarence-thomas-dissent-asserts-gun-061551840.html

fish

Posted by: Xeno | 20 February 2018 at 02:54 PM


Yeah the earth really shifted on its axis today because a gun case didn’t get enough attention in Clarence Thomas eyes. Wow....keen analysis there!

Gregory

The warrior princess at 2:54pm

Denying certiorari isn't that big a deal, Xeno. It can be just a simple 'we're too busy' for that at this time. While it would have been nice to clear that issue up for Californian's sake, I can't remember the last time I purchased a firearm ... I think it was prior to 1992.

I never got into the Barbie for Boy's thing with the AR-15.

Paul Emery


Scott writes

"I notice that Xeno and Paul will not come right out and propose anything specific.
Are you or are you not proposing confiscating fire arms owned by law abiding citizens?"

You have a short memory or you don't read. This was from last night in this post:


"I would largely leave gun control up to the States to determine their own path. I personally would require some kind of intensive boot camp training for anyone who wishes to possess assault type weapons. That would involve intensive psychological review and extreme back ground research. I would require a time limit for those who possess such weapons to enter one of those programs or turn in their firearms of which they would be reimbursed for fair value.

If Some states allow teenagers to possess automatic assault weapons then those who live in those states would assume responsibility for what may happen to their children.
This would be a start in the right direction. "

Yesterday's post 19 February 2018 at 07:20 PM

Walt

Paul. As for your "reeducation camps", LIBS are to be the first occupants.
Facts before rhetoric will be the first mandatory class.
People bitch about drunk drivers, and demand something done. I have yet to see parking lots being forbidden next to any drinking establishment.

Knives kill more people than guns.(facts of that posted yesterday) No restrictions there either.

How old are you now Paul? Since your real long in the tooth, it's time you gave up driving.
Need proof? How bout the oldster that drove his care into the store today in Glenn brook? Usual excuse, Forgot which was the break and gas peddle.
Turn over your keys before someone gets hurt. ( Just being proactive.)

Scott Obermuller

from Paul at 3:10 - "This would be a start in the right direction."
So Paul, you have told us part of what you think should be done but obviously you believe a lot more will have to be done. How about letting us in on the bulk of your plan.
Your plan to force citizens into 'some kind of intensive boot camp training...' is totally absurd. Only a handful of Americans have the free time to bother with such nonsense. Wouldn't that adversely affect the poor and people of color you lefties are always crying about? Of course it would. This is a classic case of human rights being reserved for some wealthy white men.
"If Some states allow teenagers to possess automatic assault weapons..."
I don't think any teenagers posses automatic weapons Paul.
What is an 'assault type' weapon? Does it have to be scary-looking?
"I would require a time limit for those who possess such weapons..."
Including the bad guys? What are you going to do with them?
How long a time period would be involved in this boot camp training?
For how long would it take to process many millions of people?
What if there are more school shootings in the middle of this decades long process?
We can start protecting our school kids today if we want to, but apparently we don't.
Paul has a 'plan' to supposedly protect school children but it wouldn't take any effect for years and he has other secret plans but won't tell us or maybe he hasn't got a clue.

Scott Obermuller

It's pretty clear at this point that the anti 2nd amendment folks out there won't tip their cards. First they claim there won't be any fire arm confiscation and we conservatives are paranoid to think so. Then they claim that hunting fire arms won't be involved. When the dust settles and you manage to pry part of the truth out of these liars, it turns out that yes - confiscation is exactly what they are after and their definition of what they would confiscate includes guns used in hunting.
And as Paul just admitted - "This would be a start in the right direction."
Yes - just 'a start'.
He won't own up to where he's headed with this.
First, they came for the gypsies and I said nothing.....

Walt

Paul. Just which state "allows" teens to posses "automatic weapons"?
When did the FEDS start issuing FFLs to teens? You have ANY idea of how much an automatic weapon costs these days?

You best stop commenting on things you don't have a clue about.
MY AR is not and "automatic rifle". (I bet you thought AR is short for automatic rifle.)

Scott Obermuller

The bottom line is the left gins up hysteria about school shootings and claims higher moral ground based on the amount of spittle coming out of their mouths. When you finally pry a plan of protecting the school children out of them it actually doesn't involve protecting any school children. Paul wants to 'start' by spending tens of billions of dollars on some kind of unworkable and bizarre plan to disrupt the lives of millions of law abiding citizens in order for them to earn their civil rights.
While all of this is going on, some clown waltzes into any of thousands of unprotected schools and starts shredding flesh with a couple of sawed off shotguns. Oh, I'm sure Paul will be the first to throw his body in front of the kids but unfortunately he has other plans that are far more important.
Anyone who doesn't want armed protection now at every school this week wants more tragedy so they can advance their anti-American, anti-civil rights agenda.
That's all there is to it.

Bill Tozer

Well, at least Xeno is beginning to look at the murderers, not just the weapon of choice. That we can agree on. Focus on the person pulling the trigger or setting off a bomb or driving a car into a street demonstration.

Bump stocks are easy to make in the garage, easy as pie. That is not the issue. How do you legislate evil? Yes, things have drastically changed in the past 20-30 years. The Fat Boy likes to ridicule us for wanting to live in the Ozzie and Harriet days, yet he is the first one to squeal like a stuffed pig when he kid’s bicycle gets swiped or a guy walks into a neighborhood bank and gives the teller a note.

Isn’t this whole conservation about how things have gone to shit, tracing a boatload of society’s woes back to the Flower Power Days. Drugs, sex, and rock-n-roll. Not all woes. We always have had the “In Cold Blood” killers since the first person born killed his brother, the 2nd person born.. The largest mass murder of school children happened in 1927, when a school board treasurer killed his wife, firebombed his farm, then drove to an elementary school and set off explosives, killing 38 school children and 6 adults, wounding over 50 more.

Let’s focus on the bad guy, not the weapon. An AR-15 semi-auto is semi-nothing.....nothing close to an automatic weapon. Semi-squat diddley.

Stats 2016. 14,000 firearm murders, 300 killed by rifle. Rifle includes shotguns, rifles, all long guns, does not break out AR-15s. So, guns are involved in a lot of murders, of which 300 are committed by “rifles”. Wrong focus. We focus on the drunk driver, not the shape of the car.

https://www.facebook.com/RowdyConservatives/photos/a.217983685002343.55586.217926015008110/1262171300583571/?type=3&theater

You want gun confiscation? Keep guns away from convicted felons, as our local LE do darn near every other day week in and week out per our The Police Blotter.

http://wfla.com/2018/02/19/ms-13-gang-member-with-ak-47-arrested-in-wimauma/

If we cannot legislate the evil the lurks in heart of humans, we need to protect (harden) our schools. Even if every gun in the whole land was confiscated, the US Senate, Capital Hill, banks, celebrities, sports stars, big venues, the President, Mayor of NYC, our governor, our local courthouse, and even Bill Gates would be protected by armed men.

Time to get guns on the school grounds. Not perfect, but a good step forward if you really want to get closer to the stink and protect our children. Sure, the Pulse Nighclub shooter offed the security guard at the front entrance first, as well as bank guards on big heists. Nickolas Cruz walked into the school front lobby and pulled a fire alarm. If there was a armed guard of cop in the lobby, Cruz might have offed him/her first in a surprise move. Never know. It’s a good start. The killer got off 150 rounds and took his time reloading. And planned his escape. He was unopposed.

BTW, got an e-mail from an old buddy. Retired Navy Chaplin. Former Marine, and started his military career with the Army Airborne. Anyway, he took the grandkids somewhere like Disneyworld for a vacation. They stopped into a church they passed along the way. He said it was a great experience and the Church had a nice armed gal there protecting the worshippers. Times have changed. We need to be ready to shoot back.

Don Bessee

The po' ol' fakenewsman @310 puts a big spot light on his fundamental ignorance about firearms when he claims some states allow kids to buy automatic assault weapons? REALLY? Which ones would those be ya po' ol' fakenewsman.

Now lets remember that besides being a po' ol' party parrot the po' ol' fakenewsman is a special kind of party parrot; A PO' OL' PUTIN PARTY PARROT!

He has been breathlessly parroting the putrid, Putin party line for over a year now. Just a tool of the international communist, Putin conspiracy you are! So now you are rechristened the po' ol' putin party parrot!

So everything you push going forward is automatically suspected of being the po' ol' putin party parrot line. Rock on comrade fakenewsman! ;-)

Walt

I equate Paul to that no nothing politicization that had the grand idea of how to deal with "high capacity" magazines. "Just end all sales, so when they are empty they are no good. Problem solved".
No one told the Mensa member that they could be reloaded? It was good moment to see just how stupid elected people can be, yet have the ability to pass laws.

Paul Emery

I consider a 19 year old a kid.

Scenes

re: Walt @5:36PM

Good heavens, you're right.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2013/04/03/as-lead-sponsor-in-house-on-gun-legislation-rep-diana-degette-appears-to-not-understand-how-they-work/93506/

Scott Obermuller

from Paul - "I consider a 19 year old a kid. "
The are of age, Paul. They sign contracts, open businesses, go to war, they are financially and legally responsible for themselves. And they vote. Yes, unfortunately, many are still infantile. They stay that way for decades. Never become conservative. They stay in childhood waiting for mommy to kiss their boo boos and make the bad guys go away. They are the left. Govt becomes their parent and they never untie the apron string. Sad.
Please let us know when a 'kid' with a legal machine gun starts causing trouble.
When do we get your secret plan you won't let us in on, Paul?

Scott Obermuller

Scenes - Holy cow - on par with islands tipping over.
“I will tell you these are ammunition, they’re bullets, so the people who have those know they’re going to shoot them, so if you ban them in the future, the number of these high capacity magazines is going to decrease dramatically over time because the bullets will have been shot and there won’t be any more available.”
They tried damage control after the fact but really - 'misspoke'?
Absolutely clueless - a total idiot.
The anti 2nd A folks are beyond ignorant - they're wilfully ignorant.
Who needs a boot camp? These folks don't even know which way urine runs.
Oh, yeah, I know - Uren St runs into Hwy 20/49 - yuk yuk yuk.

Scenes

It's remarkable to me how much people will argue for changes in gun law while knowing so little about either existing law or the mechanics of firearms generally. Seriously, it's not all the complicated, but the pro-ban people never seem to bother. They'll get beat up on one web forum and blithely wander off to the next.

I figure that the optimal mayhem setup for Allah Akbaring and the like is the setup the guy at Fort Hood had. The funny thing is that if you banned your way to that level, about all that is left is bolt action rifles. Heck, the Charles Whitmans of the world even make that impractical.

Unless you are disingenuous, the only real choices are completely banning firearms or doing nothing I think. The rest of it is just arguing for arguments sake.

Scott Obermuller

Your tax dollars at work : http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/20/leon-county-fl-public-schools-excuse-absences-offers-school-buses-rally-gun-control-state-capitol/
No money for armed guards but plenty for left wing propaganda.
Full on abuse of the education system. Why isn't he fired?
Tax payer money used to support left wing causes.

George Rebane

What hasn't been said in this comment stream is that the Second Amendment was written to always provide common citizens a last resort to defend themselves against a government that has turned rogue. And those of us who understand that also understand why it is necessary for citizens to be able to own a wide spectrum of firearms. This was expanded long ago in an essay I wrote on the concept of par force.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2008/04/par-force-an-un.html

Paul Emery

So that includes hand grenades, rocket launchers, tactical nukes on and on and on. Where does it end? Neighborhood tanks, Drone Bombers, personal fighter jets. How about private armies and hired mercenaries. Is that what Par Force means? Where does it end George?

Todd Juvinall

tanks

Don Bessee

What a maroon @ 739! Good guy with a gun stops the murder of 2 DV victims, just sayin'.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article201161344.html

;-)

Paul Emery

Don

Do you believe we have the right to own a private tank?

Don Bessee

Back to being a po' ol' putin party parrot ass @ 748.

Paul Emery

Simple question Don. If you believe in par force as does our host do you believe in the right to own a private tank?

Scenes

Tanks for sale

http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=1

Todd Juvinall

Even the ex partner of Bill Gates has some tanks. I saw them in Seattle. So tanks are so cool!

Scenes

Here's one I hadn't seen. AA gun for sale

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/748241683

Paul Emery

How about Rocket launchers Todd?

Don Bessee

The po'ol putin party parrots ignorance of the law makes any conversation from his end no different than a 6 year olds. I am highly confident that the pony tail of ignorance has no clue that you can have a tank and what those rules look like. ;-)

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane penned:

“Almost half of Americans have come to believe that in a civilized world the state should be the only agency to possess and wield deadly force”

Yep, I once saw a movie where the only ones who had guns were the police and the army. Think it was called Schindler’s List.

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1003598483123707/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/lastamericapatriots/photos/a.235087906641439.1073741826.235086849974878/1003594713124084/?type=3&theater

Tanks? Abrams M1A2 or Challenger 2 or Merkava Mk.4 or IT-90MS??? Decisions, decisions. Tanks, tanks a rock, y’all.

Paul Emery

How about private armies Bill

Bill Tozer

Joy Reid was right! She said “Nobody that doesn’t watch Fox News has ever heard of MS-13.” What a knucklehead. Good thing I don’t drink out of the MSBNC toilet. If I did, I would be just another clueless Popinjay.

“President Trump and Attorney General Jeff Sessions have made combatting the organization a top focus for the administration. Sessions, under a directive from an executive order signed in February 2017 by Trump, instructed law enforcement agencies and federal prosecutors throughout the U.S. to prioritize MS-13 members’ prosecution”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/20/ms-13-gang-member-sentenced-to-99-years-in-jail-after-brutally-killing-man-officials-say.html


Bill Tozer

How about private parts, Punchy.

Well, with the new sleeveless fashion in vogue, I reckon it’s the women folks’ displaying their right to bare arms.

Lack of self-awareness: “We cannot tolerate a society and live in a country with pride when our babies are being slaughtered.” —Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Abortion Supporter)

The Double Whooper with Cheese: “We have to end the absurdity of the gun show loophole. Forty percent of the guns in this country are sold without any background checks.” —Sen. Bernie Sanders

Drinking out of the toilet: “Media most days: We should wait until young people’s brains fully develop — around age 25 — before criminal justice system treats them like adults. They aren’t responsible. But when kids say what MSM wants to hear on guns: LOWER VOTING AGE! BECAUSE SO MUCH WISDOM!” —Jonah Goldberg

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10155432018250914/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/PatriotPost/photos/a.82108390913.80726.51560645913/10155432012590914/?type=3&theater

Scott Obermuller

"So that includes hand grenades, rocket launchers, tactical nukes on and on and on. Where does it end? Neighborhood tanks, Drone Bombers, personal fighter jets. How about private armies and hired mercenaries. Is that what Par Force means? Where does it end George? "
Paul is losing it, big time.
They're coming for you, Paul! Lions and Tigers and Bears - Oh my!

Don Bessee

Hey check out the latest and bestest form of virtue signaling-

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2018/02/20/nbc-glorifies-gun-owners-destroying-their-weapons-social

;-)

Bill Tozer

Oh where does it ever end? The 2nd Amendment makes the USA unique among all nations with the personal right to bear arms....to defend my country against my government.
Do I need another gun? Do I really need a big bad banana mag? Do I really need an AR-15? Can’t I be happy with my old single shot bolt action 22 rifle that’s about 80 years old?

Yo dummies, it’s called the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs. Caprice?

The USA is the country country that put a Telsa in space and the only country where folks eat Tide Pods. Hmmmm. They eat Tide Pods and want to confiscate guns. Perhaps a tank is not such a bad idea, after taking off the tracks, adding some rubber, get it smogged, and being all street legal, of course. Assuming the military stays out it and refrains from domestic interference, I think we should have whatever the CA National Guard has if, heaven forbid, we the people have exhausted all other options peaceful options. They even foresaw par force in the Constitution.

The shot heard around the world in 1775 happened because the British headed out to confiscate we the people’s ammo. Clinging to our guns and Bibles. Obama was spot on.

Scenes

re: DonB@9:49PM

Take a closer look at some of the pics. There was a big push on 4chan yesterday to take pictures of a disassembled rifle, stick a hacksaw or hammer next to it, post it on that guy's silly Twitter stream.

Scenes

re: BillT @ 11:14PM

Well, jeez. Every time somebody tries to put together a 'well-regulated' (ie. trained) militia, the Green Libertarians freak out about white guys in camo running around the woods.

Ya can't win in this world.

Mary Wanna


SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES
Syllabus
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA ET AL. v. HELLER
CERTIORARI TO THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR
THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA CIRCUIT
No. 07–290. Argued March 18, 2008—Decided June 26, 2008
District of Columbia law bans handgun possession by making it a crime
to carry an unregistered firearm and prohibiting the registration of
handguns; provides separately that no person may carry an unlicensed
handgun, but authorizes the police chief to issue 1-year licenses;
and requires residents to keep lawfully owned firearms
unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device.
Respondent Heller, a D. C. special policeman, applied to register
a handgun he wished to keep at home, but the District refused.
He filed this suit seeking, on Second Amendment grounds, to enjoin
the city from enforcing the bar on handgun registration, the licensing
requirement insofar as it prohibits carrying an unlicensed firearm in
the home, and the trigger-lock requirement insofar as it prohibits the
use of functional firearms in the home. The District Court dismissed
the suit, but the D. C. Circuit reversed, holding that the Second
Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess firearms and
that the city’s total ban on handguns, as well as its requirement that
firearms in the home be kept nonfunctional even when necessary for
self-defense, violated that right.
Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for
traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
Pp. 2–53.
(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but
does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative
clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it
connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation


2 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER
Syllabus
of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically
capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists
feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in
order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing
army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress
power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear
arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved.
Pp. 22–28.
(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms bearing
rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately
followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.
(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious
interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals
that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms.
Pp. 30–32.
(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts
and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the
late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation.
Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual rights
interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not
limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather
limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by
the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.
2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed
weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment
or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast
doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by
felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms
in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or
laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of
arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those
“in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition
of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.

Mary Wanna

"(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation.
Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual rights
interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not
limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather
limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by
the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54."

...those in common use for lawful purposes...AR-15 is in common use for unlawful purposes.

Walt

So what mary?

fish

Posted by: Mary Wanna | 21 February 2018 at 08:01 AM


Why are you wasting your time posting here when you, "jon", bobby, and C-Nile should be burning up the the phones with congress pushing for a full ban and confiscation?

I mean we should "never let a crisis go to waste"!

Mary Wanna

So, you are a clueless fool Walt.

George's Par Force argument carries no water. He is afraid his pea shooter will not stand up to an M-16 in the hands of a jack booted Federalist. So, being the Anti Federalist foot soldier that he is, he wants access to everything in Sheriff Royal's arsenal.

Sorry George, a molotov cocktail or a pipe bomb will "air your grievances" as well as an M-16.

Walt

Smoke an LSD laced joint before breakfast? WOW!! Talk about "wake and bake".
You shared it with Doug too?

Walt

Chew on this "Mary", Maybe you were too stoned to notice at the time.
Hear of the Bundy VS BLM standoff?
GOV tyranny in this day an age. It was the armed citizen who beat it back.
Harry Reid was the instigator, to buy off his Chinese backers.

Bill Tozer

Mary Wanna,

Not certain you fully understand the terms “Federalist” or “anti-Federalist”, but I could be wrong. Anyway, carry on.

George Rebane

Par Force. Sadly none of the Left have read my piece on par force, let alone understand its main tenet. All the above horseshit about grenades and tanks and private armies attests to that. The function of civilians possessing par force with the local constabulary is that the state cannot quickly snuff out or shut down legitimate protest against the rogue/illegal behavior of state agents/agencies (in the well-practiced manner of totalitarian countries). That people so aggrieved have the means to gather, hold off authorities long enough for the word to get out to other citizens across the land who then decide to join the resistance, or demur and let the initially aggrieved be taken by the state's eventual superior force and face the full consequences of their ill-advised (or ill-timed) opposition. Without such available par force, there is no chance of such penultimate resistance. This has been demonstrated time and again during the last two centuries.

The last beneficial use of par force was the recent Bundy ranch standoff. It brought (and continues to bring) attention to an aspect of government overreach that would have been buried in the courts had not the Bundy family and their many compatriots (some travelling hundreds of miles to join them with their arms) been willing to risk their lives to draw attention to what they believed was rank injustice. A free people should always have the means to exercise their will through par force when they feel the established legal avenues no longer work. A nation of disarmed sheeple no longer have that option, for they have become the herded and compliant livestock of the state.

Todd Juvinall

Looks like the Florida Legislature would not buckle to the kidlets on the NRA and guns. Goos for the cool heads.!

fish

Posted by: George Rebane | 21 February 2018 at 09:18 AM


You might also remember that this mornings dismissal of your argument comes from a man who during the Bundy Ranch affair wallowed in a state of masturbatory ecstasy about the Abrams tank, Apache helicopter and TOW missile reprisal that he was hoping to see in response to the standoff.

Perhaps the last person for a dispassionate discussion of the issue!

Robert Cross

"Second Amendment was written to always provide common citizens a last resort to defend themselves against a government that has turned rogue." What a pile of crap. It was also ratified in 1791 when fighting was done with muskets and sabres and refers to a well trained militia not any crackpot who who wants to go out and get their nut off playing toy soldiers. Common citizens don't own assault rifles only those on the political fringes who are prone to believe that somehow their rights are under assault and owning an assault rifle will actually make a difference. To use the rogue government argument in the 21st century as an excuse to allow military style assault rifles to be widely distributed throughout a civilian population is merely an advertising gimmick that plays into the politically propagated fears of the less than astute members of our society who believe such rubbish. What about the rights of murdered children to the pursuit of happiness and domestic tranquility? You folks don't seem to get that it has nothing to do with self defense against tyranny and everything to do with selling guns, period. You are being played by the NRA like a fiddle. The children and other innocent victims are just collateral damage to the gods of profit and every mass murder victim is directly on the shoulders of the gun lobby, the legislators that are in their pockets, and their supporters. Perhaps the most telling example is that of the Florida legislature who, yesterday refused to discuss a firearms bill but instead debated and declared porn to be a health hazard to teens. No facts were presented on just how many Florida teens had been murdered by porn. This show of brilliance was made in front of a large group of survivors from the latest massacre.

Walt

Mary. Was that bong hit of reality too much to toke?
Armed citizens holding off LIB operated
"storm troopers", and WINNING!! On the ground, and eventually in the court!
Save for the man, government agents shot in the back, then planted a gun on.

Walt

Have another toke Bobby.

fish

Posted by: Robert Cross | 21 February 2018 at 09:35 AM


.....I know you're concerned bobby but porn will still be available when you visit "Gods Waiting Room".


Paul Emery

I challenge all RR to watch the speeches of the teenagers at Parkland High school pleading for change and support. Probably won't see it on Fox. Go to MSNBC for live coverage. Their impassioned pleas for change might just change your opinion,

Walt

Paul. We need to take away their sports cars. High school kids have no respect for fast cars. Think they will willingly turn them in?

Paul Emery

I stand corrected. Fox is covering the speeches. Good for them.

Walt

Bob.. Guns are not just for fending off bad gov. Thy are good there to fend off people out to do you harm.
When seconds count,, the cops are many minutes away.(if your that lucky)

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 21 February 2018 at 09:52 AM


Their impassioned pleas for change might just change your opinion.


Nope.....unlike you Punch I don't need politicians to provide me with moral direction and I have no interest in policy prescriptions from children.

You really are pathetic....letting the victims of this be pimped out to further your progressive agenda!

Todd Juvinall

I heard those kids and they are certainly passionate. But really are uninformed and that is a function of shitty educators. All schools are "gun free" zones so those with bad intent know where to go for the most damage. Arm the teachers.

Paul Emery

So Fish you don't believe the kids are credible and deserve to be heard. Incredible self serving

Walt

Paul. There is a reason they can't vote at that age too. Can you name it?

Walt

For Bobby, and Mary.
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 21 February 2018 at 10:10 AM


....and there's that patented Punch-E™ brand reading comprehension issue!

The victims, of course are free to speak and discuss their issues as much or as little as they choose. I choose to not listen to their policy prescriptions because I understand that this is little more than the progressive movements latest opportunity to climb upon a pile of bodies and make pronouncements that they couldn't get any attention for otherwise.

Progressives don't care about those dead children except for their use in pushing the agenda!

Paul Emery

Fish

Do you believe the Democrats gathered up all those children and organized their presentation?

fish

Posted by: Paul Emery | 21 February 2018 at 10:26 AM


Really Punch......"Uncle Matlocks Happy Fun time Question Hour"...you should know better!

Walt

Paul. Why do you insist on graveyard political stumping? ( Can't let s good tragedy go to waste)

Scott Obermuller

"Their impassioned pleas for change might just change your opinion,"
We've already told you lefties we want change, Paul. We want school children protected in the manner already proven to work.
I'm guided by the law, reason, history and logic.
You go with emotion and see how far that will get you.
Children operate out of emotion until they grow up. It's called maturation.
You might try it.
Bobby Cross is abysmally ignorant of history. He might try actually reading some of the wisdom of the founding fathers, instead of making up crap.
See folks - this is why it's important to let people like Paul speak out. Like all of the post-modernists it's all about feelings and emotion.
Conservatives go with what brought civilization out of the dark ages.

fish

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 21 February 2018 at 10:37 AM


.....Bobby Cross is abysmally ignorant of history.


Bobby Cross is abysmally ignorant of history.


FTFY

Paul Emery

Scott writes:

"Children operate out of emotion until they grow up. It's called maturation. "

Does that emotional expression of children that you cite include the actions of a 19 year old who is allowed to buy an assault rifle and murder 17 people?

Paul Emery

Scott

the slaughter of 17 children at a public school sure sounds like the dark ages to me.

Gregory

Punchy, do you really think Democratic Party activist donors aren't pushing the kid's hard?

https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2018/02/oprah-backs-march-for-our-lives-with-500k-donation.html?page=all#comments

There is politics at work here.

Walt

For the LIBS political displeasure,
a survivor of the Columbine shooting, is now an elected politician. His stance on the subject is to ,,ARM TEACHERS!!!
Now put that in your bong and smoke it.

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