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16 February 2018


Scott Obermuller

The shooter was spotted by school personnel coming onto the campus. They knew who he was and by what he was carrying they knew with a high certainty that there would be trouble. They had a radio. If there had been an armed guard present, the guard would have been instructed as to exactly where the shooter was and his description. There would have been only one casualty. But the highly unsuccessful 'gun free' policy was in place and there was a blood bath. The wealthy and powerful in Washington make sure their kiddies are protected by armed guards. Your kids? Expendable, apparently.
Teenagers carried fire arms to school for decades. We didn't have this sort of problem. What changed?


"We didn't have this sort of problem. What changed?"

People are quick to be certain of causes, some combination of:

. Readily available at the grocery store military-style-weapons-of-war
. Prescription meds
. Single father households
. White supremacist Trump voters
. Russians

I'll throw in:

. Cycles of violence, both group and individual
. Slow replacement of cultural mores with law
. Higher degree of friction due to increasingly heterogeneous population
. Changes in attitude due to a drop-off in personal relationships and an increase in internet ones.

Although I rarely run into studies that are worth very much (or don't have a conclusion built in from the get-go). In addition, you have the issue that improved emergency medical practices has dropped the number of gun deaths, it's hard to tell if shootings have really dropped over time. Yet another twist is that the statistics bandied about rarely are in a per-capita form.

Plus you get the extra goodness of people who work their politics into all of this.

Given that the deaths from these highly publicized murders really don't amount to much in the scheme of things, probably no conclusions get reached. School shootings generally appear to be more rare than death by lightning strike.

jon smith

Scott - The school employed a full time armed "school resource deputy" and at least three of the teachers had CCW. Kind of makes your "if there had only been an armed guard present" argument rather specious.

Scott Obermuller

js - so, where were they? There was no mention that an armed guard was alerted.
Had permits - but were they allowed to bring any fire arms to school?
Yeah - armed guards are worthless, js - that's why the wealthy and powerful make sure their children are protected.
Any shootings at the school where the president's kids go?
Gee - I wonder why not?
Why not disarm the police if armed guards are worthless?
And what is your solution, js?
Oh I know - keep screeching at the NRA.


I'll pitch in one more possible reason for a nudge up in school shootings.

. Less and less of a place in society for average-ability male children. Oddly enough, the two genders aren't absolutely identical. Mostly in the case of employment opportunities, but I expect that there are also fewer chances for group activities (perhaps outside of criminal gangs).

The obvious answer for that might be providing more jobs for people who will never write code at Google while getting back rubs. I can't say that massive importation of young men from the Third World helps much, but since immigrants matter more than citizens it probably can't be helped.

jon smith

Scott- Pile on the excuses and red herrings. You stated explicitly, "IF THERE HAD ONLY BEEN AN ARMED GUARD PRESENT." Well there was an armed guard present and the lack of effectiveness perfectly describes the problems inherent in your plan of having an armed guard present. There needs to training, training, training and more training. A guy walking around with a gun is little more than a placebo if a system isn't in place to engage this "army of one."

We have school shootings, theater shootings, outdoor concert shootings, and good old shootings down town. It is plain stupid to think only of how to prevent schools shootings. I think more armed citizens is certainly a good start but it is only a start. We need to reduce the number of guns in circulation. Switzerland arms it's citizens, but regular training is mandated, weapons are registered, and guns are not sold over the counter at gas stations and drug stores. How do you think the NRA would respond if we required gun owners to be proficient and knowledgable . . . "over my cold dead fingers."

George Rebane

As I said "... when armed and trained, they will engage the killer." This short commentary was not intended to give an obvious and demonstrated solution, and contain a detailed policy manual on a school's procedures and tactics to enable armed personnel to be maximally effective. The anti-gun liberals offer predictably lame arguments against public school safety with pinhead arguments such as some teachers had CCW permits. Their having permits and being permitted to carry their legal firearms on the premises are two separate factors which progressive minds do not (cannot?) parse. (Many of us with CCW permits honor the insane regulations and not carry where prohibited, making sure that killers are the only ones who enter with guns.)

BTW, if cost becomes a problem with arming existing school personnel, then there are many qualified volunteers in every American community with CCWs, qualified to use their weapons, many of them combat arms veterans, ready to take any needed additional training, and willing to spend time on a local campus as part of an organized security program.

jon smith

Hardening schools is myopic, but sooths the mind of guilt. How about churches, concerts, theaters, military bases, Best Buy, and all the other places massacres happen? We need societal changes, not incremental band aids.


"How do you think the NRA would respond if we required gun owners to be proficient and knowledgable"

Better than Progressives would for literacy tests and fact checks before voting and blogging, which also would be wrong.

I've never seen guns for sale at a gas station, for example.

Todd Juvinall

jon smith | 17 February 2018 at 08:44 AM
Three teachers had CCW's? Please supply the link.

jon smith

Gregory 10:39. Fact check. "I've never seen guns for sale at a gas station, for example." Now you have.

These are just the first two hits on a Google search which displays hundreds if not thousands of gas stations that sell firearms. I think every CEFCO gas station sells guns. You need to get out more.

Todd Juvinall

jon smith | 17 February 2018 at 11:01 AM Please supply your proof there were three teachers armed at the time of the school massacre.

jon smith

Todd- I just had to elucidate brother Gregory. Now you?


Posted by: Gregory | 17 February 2018 at 10:39 AM

Mr Smith’s link conjures up memories of the punchline of the joke about the ATF (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) really being a much better concept for a convenience store than regulatory agency!

Todd Juvinall

You are making stuff up again. Stop it.

Scott Obermuller

When I said there was a need for an armed guard, I was assuming that the guard would be trained and equipped. And present and ready for duty. The shooter was spotted and recognised as trouble by a person at the school with a radio before he opened fire. Based on what js has written, I would have to assume there was a breakdown in operations.
We know the FBI failed.
As far as js's Ideas as to what we can do to stop these shootings -
"We need to reduce the number of guns in circulation."
Oh jolly good, js. You do that. Talk about pie in the sky. Outer space is more like it. Just how, pray tell do we go about that little operation and remember - no confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens.
This one is really a joke, right? - "...and guns are not sold over the counter at gas stations and drug stores. How do you think the NRA would respond if we required gun owners to be proficient and knowledgable..."
Where a gun is purchased has nothing whatever to do with how it is used later. Good grief. Yeah - if only these school shooter clowns had more training...
What in God's name are you smoking?
So our problem is that mass murderers need to be better trained so they can have a higher kill to injury ratio - ????
"We need societal changes, not incremental band aids."
I agree with that one. But if you don't explain what these changes are going to be and how they will be effected, you're not providing solutions, you're just blowing hot air.


That's not a "gas station" anymore than a WalMart with gas pumps is a gas station, 'jon'.

Todd Juvinall

I see jon smith is lying again. Must be his four marriages have fogged his little brain.

Russ Steele

President Trump: Have Education Department Mandate Active Shooter Protocols

Lawrence Meyers | Townhall

I’m a small government guy, however, it’s sadly apparent that the United States of America is paralyzed with political indecision over something the State of Israel figured out more than 40 years ago: all schools should have mandated security features and active shooter protocols.

The horrific scene in Parkland, and the upsetting videos broadcast from the school during the shooting, should be the final straw. The kids should not have been hiding and screaming, they should have been in the midst of a pre-determined security protocol.


I think I'm being drawn back to the concept of "pretend gun-free zones" being a big part of the problem and a part of the solution.

First, check out the list of school shootings by year:

Now, there were occasional shootings before 1990, but the most one could say for the following law is that it certainly didn't make things better:

Introduced into the Senate by Smilin' Joe Biden and signed into law by Bush the 1st.

Now, if a "gun free school zone" isn't backed up with metal detectors and guards to keep the unscreened out, it's a PRETEND gun free zone. It will only be gun free until someone with a gun shows up with mayhem in mind, which is what happened on Feb. 14. The honor system does not work with folk intent on mass murder.

Ron Paul tried introducing bills to repeal in the '00's but couldn't get them passed. I can already hear the squealing of the lambs were that tried again, but I'd propose the Act be amended to only apply to true gun free zones behind metal detectors, fences, gates and doors. Beginning in the '18-'19 academic year.


Way back when, when I was in high school, (NU to be exact) we did have armed cops on the grounds. Officer Short if I remember right. Yes, he packed.
Not that there was ever a need. But armed, non the less. He was the first to go when budget cuts started hitting about 1970.

As usual, the gun free zone is the first place bullets fly.
"Gun free zone".. What a stupid LIB idea. Those who have the right to carry,should.
Those hell bent on killing, will do so. If not with a gun, then with anything they can dream up. Like a car or truck.

Ever notice most classrooms have only one door? The proverbial "fish in a barrel".

I love this "we need to pass a law!" To what end??
Lets just say gun confiscation happens.. Good bloody luck. Think the bad guys will
hand them over? (yup,, sure thing...)

Read the Union? People busted for illegal gun manufacturing right here.( but we have laws against that)

Want guns out of the wrong hands? Well some "rights" will have to go. Like Dr./patient confidentiality. If the doc. knows your nuts, well the cops come knocking.
LIBS were happy that if you are old and piss poor at money handling, that's good enough to take your guns.


jon smith stated a while back he owns guns. Make us safer. Turn them in.

Scott Obermuller

I notice that the sheriff is 'not commenting' on this supposed armed resource officer.
We know with certainty what measures can be taken almost immediately to protect schools in the same manner that the wealthy and powerful take to protect their kids.
We can do that or we can pound on the table about the NRA and the Republicans while waiting for the next school shooting. Leftys like js have no answer.
Obama and the Dems passed no legislation while they were in power re school shootings. I would suggest they shut their traps about what they think should be done. They had their chance and did nothing.

Todd Juvinall

I heard the Chief in NC is out. Any confirmation?

Scott Obermuller
"I have always had guns, since I was a little boy. I have hunted all my life... But an AR-15 is not for hunting, it's for killing."
You don't say! I'm trying to think of what hunting you do with a fire arm that doesn't involve killing, but there I go again with logic. Is there a requirement to be that stupid so you can be a Dem?
Look folks - if you are that ignorant about fire arms, it might be a good idea to shut your pie hole and just have your secretary hand out a pre-written screed from the front office.
The 2nd A is not about hunting.
What is it about tragedy that brings out the worst people?

Scott Obermuller

I'd better follow up by stating what is obvious to millions but apparently beyond much of America.
Lots of folks hunt with AR-15s (and the various iterations thereof) just as millions of Americans hunted with war surplus 30-06 rifles from WWI and WWII.
The bottom line remains.
The 2nd A is about individuals having the God given right to defend themselves.
Deal with it.


Regarding the NC Chief,

Scoopy is crying in his 2 Buck Chuck that both YubaNet and KNCO (even KNCO!) got the story before he did.

Don Bessee

The dark lord of liberal lament land will be glad it was not the Union. ;-)

Bonnie McGuire

More on the war within being waged against America. Many years ago I attended a State Board of Education meeting in Sacramento where they were deciding on what book would be used in our schools. An elderly teacher who obviously had read it went to the podium and explained why they shouldn't approve the book. She said it encouraged disrespect for authority and encouraged bad behavior and lawlessness. She was afraid that teachers and students wouldn't be safe, and they would have to lock classrooms for protection. The embarrassed board chairman's face flushed, and the media's behavior poked fun at her. A few years later the Columbine High School massacre occurred, and many schools started hiring guards.
Regarding the mass shooters and guns. How about mind control? Not much mentioned that government, schools, medical doctors, media and big pharma have created America's opioid drug problem, mass murders, and suicides. If recent shooter Nikolas Cruz was taking drugs for depression, his deadly outburst would follow an established pattern of most mass shooters who were also on psychotropic medication.
Thank God there are some parents not letting drugs being pushed onto their active sons, by schools and doctors. Here's what an experienced Attorney says about it:
"As a prosecutor, I watched kid after kid and their parents in Juvenile Court in or about 2004-2007. . . going through the same blah blah blah as their kids got in trouble over and over . . . 'Well, once he gets his meds adjusted properly, he won't be a problem [committing any more crimes].' ....As a defense attorney, those kids became adults and are still in the now adult criminal justice system or dead."
When you do the research on these drugs you'll find that any alteration of the prescription can set off an extreme violent mental emotion. There have been impressive documentaries about the drug problem. Watch this video:
America’s number one cause of unnatural death now is suicide…Get people off pills that the (side effect) insert says will make you commit suicide and kill people. Blame the real culprit — suicide pills! Mass murder pills

jon smith

Todd 6:50 - He got sick and tired of being cop hater Senum's dawg is my guess.

Scott Obermuller

Oh look - js is back. Like most of the lefty cowards, he won't answer my questions.
Or back up his blather.
Hey jonnie boy, if you ever get your mind back, could you look over my posts and kindly come up with a few intelligent responses?

Bill Tozer

Boys, boys. Yes, an AR-15 is low impact enough to be used for hunting. Not as powerful as some hunting rifles.

With that aside, the Bottomline:

We have soft targets. Be they schools, shopping malls, movie theaters, outdoor concerts, or dropping the ball on New Year’s Eve. Schools are soft targets. We have to harden up soft targets. 9/11 changed everything.

The unique thing about high school shootings is the shooter is always associated with the school. Most every contempary they know and interact with are fellow classmates. So, the school has a inside track (for intervention) to who the next shooter may be.....he is among their midst, not some stranger off the street, generally. The Stockton Cleveland Elementary back on Jan. 17, 1989 which shook the nation to its core for weeks was indeed a stranger off the streets at first glance, but the drifter did attend Cleveland Elementary for K-2 as a child.

That particular Stockton shooting happened almost exactly 10 years after another school shooting in San Diego, which also happened to be at a school named Cleveland Elementary, but I digress.

A visit to the USSR back in the day was quite telling. Every grade school in every neighborhood I saw had a soldier with rifle on shoulder standing at the entrance to the grounds.

Like it or not, we need to harden up soft targets, schools in particular. It’s for the children. Won’t stop every wingnut hell bent on murdering people, but will stop some or keep the casualties to a minimum. Someone hell bent on shooting kids on the playground and in the hallways ain’t going to be talked out of it, nor reasoned with. Like that Carole King song, “You can’t talk to a man with a shotgun in his hand.”


Posted by: Gregory | 17 February 2018 at 07:58 PM

jeffpelline says:

February 17, 2018 at 8:21 pm

Greg Goodnight is obsessed with me......

.....the bride at every wedding, the corpse at every funeral!

Todd Juvinall

Gregory appears to me as a "responder" to the big boy not an offensive type. I think Pelline has dreams of grandeur about people liking him. When no one does that must hurt. And his man-crush on Diaz will be sorely tested this election.

Jeff Pelline

Todd and "fish,"
Go see a shrink! Hurry.


Posted by: Jeff Pelline | 18 February 2018 at 07:57 AM

Dr. Phil? Should it be Dr. Phil? What about Dr. Phil?

Get over yourself jeffy!


Rebane doctrine - we must have everyone armed with semi-automatic weapons so we can shoot it out on the freeways and in the schools and concert halls.

That is all.


Posted by: ArchieBunker | 18 February 2018 at 08:47 AM

Rebane doctrine - we must have everyone armed with semi-automatic weapons so we can shoot it out on the freeways and in the schools and concert halls.

Why limit yourself Arch....why!?

Bill Tozer


Todd Juvinall

Oh ArchieB you truly missed the point. We need a tank man. But GeorgeR did not say that. Why place myself at risk when I can storm the place in a tank?

Pelline does need a shrink. The man is a mess.

Barry Pruett

First the liberals are violently protesting trying shut conservative people up in effort to control thought and also at the same time normalizing violence against conservatives. Second the liberals are getting rid of unacceptable books like Huckleberry Finn and To Kill a Mockingbird in an effort to censor thought and words. Now after demonizing conservatives and calling them evil, they want to ban guns?! This process scenario is all to familiar. I have read about this before and don’t like the ending. So if you want my gun you can take it from my cold dead hands. 😉

Barry Pruett

My cousin sent a meme to me today. "Gun control? Because unarmed people will not willingly load themselves into railroad boxcars." Amazing how the left forgets (and tries to re-write) our collective history. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. Gun control is the answer to the wrong problem. Our culture has normalized violence instead of civility. That's the problem and the solution is that we have to change our culture.


Someone call for a tank man?

Bonnie McGuire

Watched Clint Eastwood's latest movie, “The 15:17 to Paris,” which tells the real-life story of the three guys whose bravery turned them into heroes during a high-speed railway ride in France during 2015. Another good down to earth story about ordinary boys who goofed off and got into trouble at school, but whose mothers refused to let them be medicated instead of disciplined. They were like most of us learning and doing whatever life offers, but not feeling that special...until along comes something that reveals purpose.
There was some media criticism I wondered about. After seeing the movie all I can say is Bravo! to Eastwood for standing up to them.


Jeff Pelline, yesterday 757am

No, Todd and fish have that right... you've gone out of your way to kick me on multiple occasions.

Including your claim that I had thrown a temper tantrum at a Constitution Day parade. That never happened, did it, Jeff? Fess up, it would be good for your soul.

Don Bessee

Florida sheriff on arming teachers: 'OK, Einstein, you got a better idea?'

"We had coaches that ran to stand in front of their students with no gun," he said. "Why not give them a fighting chance?"


This has my vote. Now watch the gun grabbers nut up.

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