Fairness and Leftwing Talk Radio (updated 26jul18)

George Rebane

[This is the addended transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 25 July 2018.]

In our hyper-polarized country it’s time to revisit the notion of censoring free speech.  And specifically as this relates to talk radio.  Our Left has had a perennial problem with how talk radio works in America, or how it works for the Right, and disastrously fails for the Left.  This leads to cries of censorship, claiming that the resulting programming is not ‘fair and balanced’ in the minds of progressives.  All such talk began back in 1949 with the Fairness Doctrine introduced by the Federal Communications Commission.

Back in those days public communication channels were limited to print media, movies, and radio.  Television was then in its infancy.  Since frequency bandwidth was a limited resource, the FCC parceled it out to radio stations as a limited public good.  And among the many rules imposed on broadcasters, the one on the discussion of controversial issues of public importance required programming from every station to be “honest, equitable, and balanced”.  Well, you can imagine the kind of problems that requirement launched – honest, equitable, and balanced in whose opinion?  Soon all kinds of obvious violations came to pass, and in 1987 the FCC rescinded the rule in favor of letting the markets decide who gets to listen to what.

By the early 1990s radio channels had expanded considerably, television was mature, cable was burgeoning, and the internet was already on the horizon.  In the intervening decades broadcast TV had become the home of leftwing political commentary, most visibly when packaged as entertainment, as in late night comedy shows that became thinly veiled propaganda outlets for leftwing ideology and Democrat causes.  And most of the other media, including government subsidized public radio, had taken a distinct and comfortable leftward tilt that actually started under FDR during the depression of the thirties.

The last bastion of rightwing thought became talk radio on private sector commercial stations where commentators were able to interpret the country’s goings on from the conservative and libertarian viewpoints to audiences that seemed to grow without bound.  The reach and effectiveness of conservative talk radio was not lost on the Left, which immediately launched its own talk shows to dispense socialist and progressive views of the world.  But for some puzzling reason, none of these shows got enough traction or caught on with the public.

The liberal diagnosis was that somehow the capitalist free markets were censoring leftwing talk radio, with stations shutting down one show after another as sponsors abandoned them because the audiences simply weren’t there.  As always, the Left’s proposal has been to bring in government, this time to resurrect the Fairness Doctrine that would put talk shows under newly minted quota regulations.  The thought is that no matter if people listened or not, forcing radio stations to devote equal time to Left and Right talk shows would reduce time available for disseminating conservative viewpoints.  This also satisfies a basic tenet of liberal belief, that whatever the government does not subsidize, prescribe, or enforce with its gun, is automatically prohibited, proscribed, or censored in our society.

So today’s accepted progressive wisdom is that censorship by capitalist free markets has been the reason for the ongoing failure of leftwing talk radio.  And this censorship needs to be removed by reinstating government regulation of thought on the airwaves.  But instead of reinstating the failures of the Fairness Doctrine, I would like to offer some other considerations why leftwing talk radio cannot attract audiences, reasons that others may consider too politically incorrect to explain the absence of listeners.

The simplest and most plausible reasons that audiences reject progressive commentaries are due to a combination of factors.  First and foremost, the credibility of a message that violates critical thinking, common sense, and universally understood norms of human behavior.  Second, the ability of government succored audiences to comprehend the more complex parts of public debate and policy proposals.  Third, the poor command of English by many of today’s Democrat constituencies.  And finally, education limited backgrounds that put out of reach the more detailed arguments based on history, economics, and science.

So, why do you think that liberal radio has had such a disastrous history?

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on Rebane’s Ruminations where the addended transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and where such issues are debated extensively.  However, my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[Addendum]  The main point I want the reader to take away from this is to answer why it is the Left that is trying to limit the speech of the Right, and the Right has no interest in reciprocating.  Specifically, no one on the Right seeks to apply the Fairness Doctrine to the highly one-sided programs on the mainstream media and the government subsidized outlets such as under the aegis of CPB and PBS.  (A more local example is the record of local lefties who have called for the silencing of my former Union column, and the ongoing calls to get me off the air at KVMR.  Has anyone ever run across someone on the Right trying to silence the rampant local propagandizing by the Left?)

If there were a real demand for leftwing or progressive radio commentary, then there is no one out there to stop them from grabbing time slots, even on established rightwing outlets, since such programming would significantly increase the stations’ outreach to audiences that advertisers would find attractive, and therefore increase such stations’ revenues.  Instead, the ideological fare that sells on TV is leftwing oriented comedy one-liners that appeal primarily to people for whom thinking is optional.  But, of course, for such audiences this lightweight and almost always fallacious fare is extremely effective, especially since it’s the only political commentary they consume.

Here is the currently operative view from the Left as to why they don’t fare well in the talk radio market, and why the government must step in – landmark 2007 study by the Center of American Progress (here), and some analyses of it (here and here).

[26jul18 update]  ‘The Trashing of George Mason U.’ provides a relevant tangent to this post.  Turns out that there’s a sleazebag outfit called UnKoch My Campus that is attacking George Mason for accepting donations from Koch brothers and others of a conservative libertarian bent for seeking “to advance the understanding, acceptance and practice of those free market processes and principles which promote individual freedom, opportunity and prosperity, including the rule of law, constitutional government, private property and the laws, regulations, organizations, institutions, and social norms upon which they rely.”  This attack on supposedly “dark money” funding colleges is against one of the last islands of free speech and conservative thought of America's academia, and is  carried out by an outfit that itself refuses to reveal who is funding its activities.

Comments

[Gregory]

Hmmm... on page 2 are their three recommendations:

This analysis suggests that any effort to
encourage more responsive and balanced
radio programming will first require steps
to increase localism and diversify radio
station ownership to better meet local
and community needs. We suggest three
ways to accomplish this:
o Restore local and national caps on the
ownership of commercial radio stations.
o Ensure greater local accountability
over radio licensing.
o Require commercial owners who fail
to abide by enforceable public interest
obligations to pay a fee to support
public broadcasting.

Scratch a progressive and you get a coercive utopian. Got to force people to let the progressives create content that, in general, isn't supported by an audience.

[Account Deleted]

Lost in all of the rants against 'right wing' talk radio is the type of listener demographic that prevails during the time slots most of the popular hosts are on the air. Radio is a popular information medium for those who work during the day. Drivers, farmers, shop workers, store owners, delivery drivers and so forth can listen in for most or all of the show and still get their jobs done. Older retired folk as well are usually going to be tuning in during the day. As some one who spent the better part of 3 decades commuting 137 miles a day on swing shift, talk radio was a big part of my life. I started listening mostly to Larry King at night even though I didn't agree very much with him and found him to be rude beyond belief. It did keep me awake at night and he did have interesting guests. Coast To Coast was avoided as it seemed to appeal to children. King went to TV and I had to hunt for variety. Ray Taliaferro (bigoted and hate filled) Roy Masters (common sense mixed with a heavy dose of charlatan) and some wanna-be's had to do until KFBK ran the line up of Tom Sullivan in the afternoon and a repeat of Rush at night. Tom would be considered 'right wing' even though he is a socially left/moderate. Fiscally conservative, and judicially a Constitutionalist. Rush is Rush, but he brought issues and facts to light that the other news media wouldn't touch. And he turned out to be correct most of the time.
I tried to listen to Air America, but it was so dogmatic and repetitive of what was being reported elsewhere, I really wasn't getting anything different that what I had already read in that day's Bee and Chronicle.
NPR was OK for some human interest stories, but they were pretty much parroting the line from the DNC and it was mostly old news.
Now that I'm retired, I don't listen to talk radio at all although I'd gladly listen to Tom Sullivan if I could get him on a local channel.
The issue of 'fairness' is now a joke as is 'social justice'.
It's just a bunch of fascists trying to shove their doctrine down our throats via the govt gun. Funny how much the left loves fire arms if they have control of them.

[George Rebane]

ScottO 538pm - https://www.iheart.com/podcast/tom-sullivan-show-28293030/

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 25 July 2018 at 05:38 PM

Ray Taliaferro (bigoted and hate filled)

An utter ass! It pleased me no end to see the guillotine blade fall on KGO!

[’’’M’’’]

,,,yes, you hear about some vocal groups within ‘’’liberal arts’’’ schools protesting and wanting to deny right winger guests the ability to speak at those venues,,,

,,,according to trumpski, all news except for Fox And Friends is fake,,,mostly because the so called lib media calls trumpski and others out on their BS,,,trumpski cannot censor it but he and his ilk will attempt to paint it all as fake hoping to confuse the ‘’’want to believe’’’ MAGA heads,,,

,,,every day is reality TV,,,who wants to listen to a bunch of hate mongers on radio?

[fish]

Posted by: ’’’M’’’ | 25 July 2018 at 06:25 PM

every day is reality TV,,,who wants to listen to a bunch of hate mongers on radio?

Apparently nobody on the left dugski......

Moving on!

[Account Deleted]

"yes, you hear about some vocal groups within ‘’’liberal arts’’’ schools protesting and wanting to deny right winger guests the ability to speak at those venues"
No - we don't just hear about it - the left are very proud of actually denying view points they don't agree with to appear and speak at campi across the nation.
What does that have to do with talk radio?

[Don Bessee]

HEY, didn't you see the Don't Feed the Trolls sign? ;-)

[scenes]

re: "M"@6:25PM

English MF! Do you speak it?

re: Talk radio.

Dunno why MSM segregates itself by technology, but it matters less and less given the encroachment of the internet. Talk radio (or TV) of any flavor is pretty contentless in any case, so I don't have much of a dog in this fight.

Now, 'Progressive' bias on youtube, reddit, twitter, even google itself? That's a new and pretty interesting thing, especially because it can be automated. Obviously a lot of that could be solved if we could encourage people to use alternative sites. It isn't like antitrust law will ever rear it's ugly head in terms of the near-monopoly websites.

In any case, just declare a person, channel, website as 'HATE' and you can shut it down, slash their tires, take away their job. It's the politics of the mob and it can attack anyone or anything, I can't say that the type of media even matters.

[Account Deleted]

fish - Ray would never allow a conservative black more than 4 seconds on his show. As soon as it appeared the 'brother' was not going to agree 100% with Ray, he would cut him off and make some comment about "white boys from some frat in Berkeley trying to fool ol' uncle Ray". It was totally beyond his comprehension that some African descent folk had thoughts of their own.
On one show, some ass-licking old white woman fawned all over him but then started to try to persuade him from cursing so much on the show.
"Oh - to hell with you, you old fool" he screamed. "I'll say whatever I want and you old white slave masters can go to hell!"
And some folks think Rush is rude. What a laugh.

[fish]

Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 25 July 2018 at 07:15 PM

Yeah.....that’s pretty much how I remember ol’ Uncle Ray!

[Account Deleted]

Yes - thanks George - I know he's been on the internet for some years now, but I never had access to that when I also had the time to listen. Radio was always background noise while I did something else.
I'll check it out now that I have a WiFi signal in my shop.
The one exception was listening to Russ Hodges and Lon Simmons at night in bed when I was supposed to be sleeping. I really didn't even care about baseball but I loved listening to them for some reason.

[Don Bessee]

Good for the goose good for the gander eh!

https://nypost.com/2018/07/25/cohen-secretly-recorded-conversation-with-cnn-anchor/

HAHA! ;-)

["M"]

,,,first the left complains that talk radio is biased and unfair,,,now trumpski calls out Twitter for being unfair!!!

https://www.cnet.com/news/shadow-banning-what-it-is-and-what-its-not/?ftag=CAD-03-10aaj8j

[George Rebane]

M 1202pm - Do your best to discriminate between exercising free speech in the attribution of someone as being 'unfair', to calling for the silencing of the attributor or the silencing of such messages. After a bit of thought, it really is not a difficult task.

For additional clarification, my post concerned the latter and invited discussion about such initiatives, especially given their political asymmetries.

[scenes]

re: GeorgeRebane@12:22PM

It occurs to me how much scrabbling around there is given the amount of traction the Right has gotten on the internet.

Now that we've broken loose somewhat from the FCC, limited TV/radio channels, and .gov oversight generally, the folks on the Right and far Right actually have a public voice for the first time.

It's an interesting situation given the 'Progressive' political bias of the near-monopolies you find on the web due to Metcalfe's Law. In the short term, it's viewed as desirable for Progressives to decide who has a voice on reddit, youtube, twitter, etc. but I wonder what the long term result will be due to market forces. Do you end up with regular twitter and evil Rethuglican twitter? (rather like patreon and hatreon) or do the big social media companies actually embrace free speech? I wouldn't hold my breath on the latter.

[George Rebane]

scenes 109pm - Excellent points Mr scenes.

["M"]

,,,george,,,to whom do you refer in this passage, "This leads to cries of censorship"???

I find that I am still able to converse over these cries leading me to believe that a only few wacky doodles were once whining about the unfair AM radio waves somewhere.

All one has to do is change the channel. Better yet give the AM bandwidth to new technology companies that could put it to better use. Along with free right wing dogwhistle trigger speech the AM band is congested with the music of illegal immigrants and religious proselytizers.

I won't miss AM radio

[fish]

Posted by: "M" | 26 July 2018 at 03:05 PM

Better yet give the AM bandwidth to new technology companies that could put it to better use. Along with free right wing dogwhistle trigger speech the AM band is congested with the music of illegal immigrants and religious proselytizers.

Always giving somebodies rights away to somebody you like better eh dugglypoof!?

[fish]

Crap

["M"]

lol,,,no,,,I just have no use for AM radio,,,except to pirate it.

["M"]

repeat after me,,,backslash before the tag,,,backslash before the tag,,,backslash before the tag...

[Walt]

No worries, Zucky is feeling the bite of LIB one sidedness.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/mark-zuckerberg-loses-over-15-billion-in-less-than-a-day
It can crash and burn for all I care. I would never miss it.
But Jerry Brown would.

[Bill Tozer]

Am talk radio is like being invited to sit in on a conversation between the host and the listeners. Instead of sound bites and canned narratives, topics are discussed in depth with both insight and with the time needed to elaborate. There is also a relationship that develops between the host The guests are often more informed that what one will find on the TV.

I give more weight (much more weight) to someone who has been there, done that, and knows how the inside works in this or that government department than some tv “news show” who parades out some professor from Princeton or pundid as an expert on matters that they have spent their entire careers on the outside looking in.

Talk radio: I like Laura Ingrahm in the morning and recently added Buck Sexton later afternoon.

[George Rebane]

BillT 656pm - Mr Tozer, I'd love to hear a dissertation from you on how newly interested listeners, without an existing and more extensive knowledge base of current affairs, could be attracted into the community of audiences that listen to the in-depth discussions we hear on rightwing talk radio. Jumping cold turkey into an 'advanced' talk radio program can seem daunting, and no commentators of the Rush Limbaugh caliber would want to make their established and knowledgeable audiences suffer through ding-dong school programming where extensive backgrounds are delivered to bring the enthusiastic newbies up to par. What do you think is the best way to address this impediment to increasing such audiences?

[Bill Tozer]

@ 7:32 p
Haven't a clue, Dr. Rebane. Priorities in life and all that. Time restraints. What to leave in, what do leave out. Guess I could say that “when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear, “ but that’s just cleverly avoiding addressing the question at hand.

Actually, I not sure that growth of listenership is the desired goal. Not for me, that is. Quality over quantity. Personal,preferences. You either like a ham sandwich, or you don’t.

First thing of import is a degree of comfort with the host, his or her credibility, and of course, topics of interest well seasoned with facts and stories gleamed from behind the scenes about what’s going down....stuff MSM does not dig into. That takes listening to the show. Takes time.

It took me awhile to be comfortable with Michael Savage and/or a Mark Levin. Savage is one of a kind, for sure. Some days he says “if you want to talk about Russia, Russia, Russia or Stormy Stormy Stormy Daniels today, go find another station to listen to. You can get that stuff anywhere. Getting old. Don’t feel like it today. I would like to hear from callers if they ever had that this or that happen to you and how did you react.....or, if the callers insist, we will talk about Russia, Stormy, Russia, Stormy” :).
Yep, reading and repeating what’s on Drudge as a format can get lazy and shallow for both the host and listener. Sometimes I hunger for depth. I thirst for more and superficial don’t cut it. Same with Savage and Levin and Ingrahm, all with little tolerance for mindless bully pucky by squeaking parrots.

Ironically, I have not listened to Rush nearly as much in the last 3 or more years. I listen to Rush less and less as time goes on. With more time on my hands, Rush got squeezed. Go figure. That time frame is when I am into trying to focus on other things and can’t multi-task easily. Curse of being a male.

Growing listenership? The market decides, or maybe not. For example, Savage in his time slot was the number one or two show in NYC, beating everybody including Hannity and all the talk radio shows in hismtime slot. He got pulled. Same in DC. His ratings are great wherever he goes, being first or second in major market markets. Yet, he gets dropped, one by one. Some owners of stations have more say than the viewership, to the detriment of ad revenues. He was whinning that he got just got pulled from an Southern Cal station where he was killing it and his replacement is now running behind a radio station coming out of Mexico whose signal barely reaching the LA market, lol. . So, the customer is not always King, the customer is not always right....in this age of TDS. And I would not recommend Savage for your general readership as a source for news, only insights on a wide range of topics, some not potilical. Or, are all things political?

Talk radio? Podcasts are the way to go if one is curious and have other things fighting for one’s attention. Not something you copy and paste for your readers to enjoy. Wrong format. In fact, all talk radio cannot be condensed into a sound bite for here, not to mention not even suitable for that 5 minute news on the hour you hear on AM radio.

To each his own. Still,is a free country....or maybe not. Growing listenership? Like social media, once a conservative site grows too big, they get tapped down...unless you can’t get tapped down like Rush, not matter how hard they try. Man, have they tried with everything they got. Word of mouth hasn’t worked. Maybe government can stop him!

This topic about growing listenship (and readership) is reminiscent of that time the FUE came over to this site bitchin’ about too many right wing events going on in Western Gateway Park. It’s a public park! Too much State of Jefferson/Tea Partying going on. It’s one sided! Not fair. When pointed out that just about any group is free to rent space for a confab at the park, he was not satisfied. What, the Dems can’t come up with the rent in advance when placing a reservation? Want equal time for free? Then he dropped the BS card. What will he tell his son when they are playing disc golf with all those far rightwing extremists around? Suppose his son may see them while playing disc golf.... far away from the events, I might add.

Sure, FUE, you drive all the way to Western Gateway Park and waddle around playing fresbie golf on a regular basis and your only concern is what your son may think or hear. Sure, whatever you say. Same with having anything close to a Conservative float on a 4th of July Parade. Shutter the thought. It’s not a political celebration! No place for them. What will my son think? What should parents tell their children when they see “those people”? Same with Dr. Rebane having 2 minutes a week on HIS (the FUE’s) beloved KVMR newshour? Rebane does not belong anywhere near the news. Get off MY station. Not really picking on the FUE as such, just serves as the perfect example of the Leftinistas’s thoughts and actions. Very illiberal of them.

Again, reminds me of the long gone original tv series Hawaii 5-0 where Jack Lord would scream at a fired actor or crew member, “Get off MY island.”

Nay, he just don’t want you or me or our kind to have a voice. He is not alone, for sure Same with Rush. Can’t we put that extremist right wingers hate monger in the 3:00 am time slot if we can’t put enough pressure on the stations to shut him down? Free speech is not equal time speech. It’s just speech. And if folks like what they hear, the rest takes care of itself.

Being informed is my goal, not increasing listenship. Maybe word of mouth. Laura Ingrahm in the morning, Buck Sexton in the later afternoon. A little Savage, a little Levin, time permitting. Or, become a Leftists and claim any contrary opinion is being “divisive.”

Maybe trying to it bow on it and make the package look prettier to attract newbees ain’t the answer. Straight shooting telling it as it is is the answer,.
Tom Sullivan is a good place for one to dip their toe in the water. That’s where my sister, the former Femi-Nazi author, put her toe in the water and she got hooked.

[George Rebane]

BillT 1225am - Thank you Mr Tozer. You bring up an interesting point in your 'quality vs quantity', but I may have miscommunicated in my 732pm. Since in elections all cast votes count as equals, regardless of the quality of forethought by the voter, it seems that attempting to get more people familiar with the issues (beyond the sound bite) will garner one side or the other the needed numbers. In training a skill, you don't start the student off in the final chapter without mastering the material in the earlier chapters. Should talk radio also provide some 'introductory programming' to listeners just awakening to the country's battle of ideologies and cultures?

[Gregory]

"Should talk radio also provide some 'introductory programming' to listeners just awakening to the country's battle of ideologies and cultures?".

No.

Limbaugh occasionally says to give him six weeks before turning him off, that it takes that long to understand the issues... I first listened to Limbaugh circa 1992 after reading Reason magazine and other libertarian-leaning stuff for more than a decade, and I got his jokes the very first hour.

Limbaugh is correct about 43.325% of the time.

But then Libertarians are where Conservatives have been stealing most of their new and good ideas for years.

[George Rebane]

Gregory 824am - Good enough. I wonder who many potential adherents never make it through the six weeks, and are therefore lost.

Limbaugh batting 433 - it seems that there is then a real opportunity for some anti-Rush forces to put on a popular program to highlight his 567 error content. So far when the Left has sought to counter Limbaugh, they always attempt to deny stuff from his 433 category and make fools of themselves. I wonder why they don't go for the low-hanging fruit?

["M"]

,,,George,,,are you saying that right wing talk radio programs are not as you put it,,, thinly veiled propaganda outlets for rightwing ideology and Republican causes''' but only leftwing late nite comedy programming is ???

[Bill Tozer]

My, my. Political analyst, eh? No wonder talk radio is still thriving .

“The president sees that his numbers are waning. He cannot be this dictator that he’s trying to be at this moment. … Putin has got Donald Trump big pimping — big pimping Donald Trump right now. Donald Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants to the world and this nation, and it’s not happening.” —CNN political analyst April Ryan

Pssst April. Check those numbers.

[George Rebane]

M 317pm - Wherever did you get that idea and question?? Rightwing talk radio is not veiled at all, and proudly touts its ideological provenance. Since it uses that in a distinctly biased format to promote its ideas, it surely must also be categorized as propaganda proudly delivered. It's the Left's sleazebags on the air who don't fly their obvious flag, and convince their lightweight audiences that they are 'fair and balanced' in their viewpoints. Now that's pernicious propaganda.

Again, what thinking led to your question?

[Robert Cross]

"It's the Left's sleazebags on the air who don't fly their obvious flag". -How did you come up with that? Such an observation is nothing more that another George attempt to cast shade on those who disagree with his faulty belief system. When Colbert took over the Tonight show it was nothing more than Leno or Carson with glasses and it tanked. When he started to use anti-trump humor the ratings sky rocketed. There is nothing veiled about talk show humor just like talk radio isn't veiled. If one tunes in to Colbert, Trevor Noah, Fallon, Kimmel, or any number of current late night comics..... you know what you are going to get. This is the same reason people listen to radical right radio or watch faux news..... they are saying what their audiences want to here .... plain and simple... it's all about finding a niche that draws in an audience.. nothing more nothing less. If the only way Limbaugh and others could garner an audience would be to champion pedophilia, then that's what the content would be.. It really has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with fame and fortune.

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 27 July 2018 at 05:28 PM

Itreally has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with fame and fortune.

.....and coffee!

[Bill Tozer]

Mr. Cross.

Me thinks you miss the point. Comedy Central, sitcoms, et al, ain’t what we are talking about here. Nor are we talking about CNN, MSNBC, Rachel or Jake, nor the big three. Not even Fox (but Fox News is pretty good) talking heads. Nor the print media. Nor social media. You own all that, save the opinion shows on FOX. The View owns the am.

We are talking why you guys cry foul because we dominate and kick your tail in one niche and one niche only, boring AM radio talk shows, most during the middle of the work day. Single lonely people with no life listen to that stuff and old Pops tinkering in the garage. And you want it to be fair!! You want equal time by government mandate? It’s the gazillon dollar Leftist Industrial Media & Entertainment Complex vs little old angry white men ranting on the transister radio. Some with tubes.

What am I missing here?

[Bill Tozer]

One of the last speeches or the last week of the Obama Presidency, Obama went back to where we started in early 2009, bashing FOX. I remember thinking exactly that when I heard him say it. He was on the trail for Hillary that last week. This was after his tour of “a vote for me...er....vote for Hillary is a vote for my policies.” You could tell in 2016 Fox really stuck in his craw and caw. Really irrated him. Heck, irrated the entire Left to no end.
Think in 2009 he even mentioned talk radio host names. He sounded out fakenews warnings for righty outlets back then, complete with trigger warnings *divisive,from a different planet.) Same with Clinton. He did not care for Rush one bit, felt Rush had a bigger pulpit. Then along came the Fairness Doctrine. Silence them!

What amazes moi is you guys think CNN is maybe a tiny tippy toe to the Left. Or the Wa Post or Huff -n-Puff Post or the NYNt is reliable and burst at the seams with the honest truth and above reproach in all things concerning Trump and anyone he pretty much ever meet. That “fairness” belief is what makes my jaw drop. The NYT announced and published that in these days of crisis(es), all the rules go out the window. And the fact checkers you love are stacked 11 or 19 to 1 with Lefties, who claim they are fair. What a bunch of nonsense. Like Rosenstein or Stroz answering why would they recuse themslves with astonished faces. “What you talking about?”

Then you say we can’t post from this site or that site because you can’t trust it for factual accuracy as your side is embarrassed every single damn day with another, “Opps, retract that one guys.” Not even a straight up “I blew it, sorry.” Ever. So, pretend your side is busting at the seams with credibility and the Good Housekeeping seals of approval and you all can rest assured you can have full confidence in those biased rags within most articles are written by airheads with full blown TDS.

Well, that makes sense. Since you have TDS, you would not know any different. The new normal.

[George Rebane]

RobertC 528pm - You predictably miss the point Mr Cross. And it has nothing to do with "fame and fortune" which is simply a by-product. The Right constantly ties its continuing critiques of the Left to the reasoned fundamental principles of governance that recognize the nature of Man. The Left does nothing of the sort with its critiques; their purpose, when seldom stated, is that the Right is simply embodied evil that needs to be stamped out by force.

But you are right in that both play to very different audiences - one seeks to bless and nurture America, and the other makes clear in every possible way that they want America to disappear. They demonstrate that with every public gathering, march, demonstration, and public policy - their watchword is, "God damn America!" Why not just spell out your guiding principles? They have already been written down, amplified, and glorified in many books, pamphlets, and films since first being issued in 1848. Take pride in the tenets you believe.

[Gregory]

George 912am

I think the DP (Democratic Party or Double Penetrations) don't attack Limbaugh on the easy wins because most of Limbaugh's correct observations are about DP shenanigans, and that enrages them.

Like a bull in a bullfight, the DP are easily manipulated by a pro... who doesn't throw hate... he laughs at them, with credibility.

[Robert Cross]

that the Right is simply embodied evil that needs to be stamped out by force." and how is this any different thinking than your continuous spiel about liberalism being a disease and liberal thinking people having some kind of mental deficiency? It's not.

"one seeks to bless and nurture America, and the other makes clear in every possible way that they want America to disappear." which one is which George? Considering the continuing saga of lies and misdeeds, the gutting of public services for all the people in exchange for tax breaks for corporations and their owners, etc. etc. that characterize the trump administration and republican political positions in general, it is easy to argue that your political positioning is more in line with the latter than the former.

"They demonstrate that with every public gathering, march, demonstration, and public policy - their watchword is, "God damn America!"-- wrong again George. If you would take off your blinders you would see that these people are exercising their first amendment rights of free speech in making clear their dissatisfaction with how their country is being managed. But since you and yours seem to agree with the minority that now govern, such displays of constitutional rights upon which this country was founded now, in your less than humble opinion, border on treason. #sad. The Republican Agenda is not the solution.... it is the problem.

[scenes]

rcross: "If you would take off your blinders you would see that these people are exercising their first amendment rights of free speech in making clear their dissatisfaction with how their country is being managed. "

lol. Well, if nothing else, it's good to see the mask come off.

"NO BORDERS, NO NATIONS, STOP THE DEPORTATIONS"

The thing is, we knew it all along.

[Don Bessee]

Like the socialist/dem/communists policies from the 60's and 70's as well as talking points now they are going to try this desperate move. OH YA, Hollywood is gonna save the propaganda day! In three acts -

https://deadline.com/2018/07/norman-lear-all-in-the-family-the-jeffersons-good-times-maude-and-mary-hartman-mary-hartman-reboots-first-look-deal-with-sony-pictures-tv-1202434917/

;-)

[Russ]

Robert Cross, are you one of the Democrats that believe Russia actuality tampered with the vote tallies"

The poll, conducted by The Economist/YouGov, asked voters if they thought the statement that "Russia tampered with vote tallies in order to get Donald Trump elected President" was true. Among Democrats, a total of 55% said it was "probably true" or "definitely true" while only 44% said it "probably not true" or "definitely not true."

https://www.dailywire.com/news/16792/poll-majority-democrats-wrongly-believe-russia-aaron-bandler

[George Rebane]

RobertC 930pm - On that comment Mr Cross, I believe you batted zero in both your demonstrated understanding and your counters. The overarching evidence of that is that no one is trying to silence the Left, which cannot be said for the Left in any sphere of social activity - commerce, education, jurisprudence, and the media.

We don't want you to govern us, and have no problem with you governing yourselves.

[’’’M’’’]

,,,george wants to convince us that his brand of talk show is proudly proclaiming their beliefs and strutting their stuff in all their finery,,,but they wear no clothes!!!!

,,, the other side also tells it like it is, whether it be late night tv talk show or
morning news show,,,

They are hardly hiding,,,they are constantly in your face!!!

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 27 July 2018 at 09:30 PM

Oooh! Penned with all the smug condescension that 500 lbs and a cargo strap sized belt can muster.......

[Robert Cross]

Russ 9:50"are you one of the Democrats that believe Russia actuality tampered with the vote tallies"". No Russ, the Russians did not tamper with vote tallies.. they tampered with weak easily mislead minds in crucial precincts in crucial states where the 'winner take all' electoral college gave the election to trump in spite of the fact he lost the election by 3 million votes. AS for your source: "The Daily Wire presents news with a right wing bias in reporting and wording. For example headlines are usually sensational and utilize strong emotional language. Virtually every story favors the right and denigrates the left. The Daily Wire has also published some false information... a factual search reveals that the Daily Wire, on a whole, has a mixed track record with fact checkers. " So Russ take it or leave it.

George 10:02 -- I think 'weak easily mislead minds" describes trump supporters fairly accurately. How else can someone turn their back, eyes and ears to the mountain of corruption and lies that surrounds trump and simply dismiss all of it as fake news... because the Donald said so.. Besides, the corporate goons that back the Republican Party need to be governed because they have very little moral character in their world of money being more important than human life and if they aren't reigned in society will return to the feudalistic system the wealthy prefer.
Sorry Davey. bad guess again... I only weigh 180.

[George Rebane]

RobertC 149pm - I take it you didn't want to address the point of my 1002am. I admit that it's a difficult one for your side of the divide.

[fish]

Posted by: Robert Cross | 28 July 2018 at 01:49 PM

Sorry Davey. bad guess again... I only weigh 180.

Kudos bobby.....you write with the same condescendingly smug tone of a certain gravity challenged former employee of the local Nevada City newspaper!

Unusual that both of you would be such idiots in close proximity!

hmm.....wonder what the odds are!

[scenes]

RC: "Besides, the corporate goons that back the Republican Party need to be governed because they have very little moral character in their world of money being more important than human life and if they aren't reigned in society will return to the feudalistic system the wealthy prefer."

Huh. Funny thing that California has such a high GINI score given that it's 100% run by Democrats, and the liberal variety at that.

Maybe there's some small chance that political party has little do with it.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Robert, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I'll play the guessing game for a second. Given this:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g3WZGpDibPM/Up3ZAPRtScI/AAAAAAAAJqE/5hWGdOBol_E/s1600/a-gini-ratio-us-households-families-individuals-1947-2012.png

It seems to me that the inflection point was at about the same time as the uptick in immigration began. Supply and demand of labor and all that you know.

[Gregory]

BobbieC 149pm...

So, how did over half of the DP partisans come to the conclusion the damn Russkies changed the vote totals?

By paying attention only to left wing news sources is an obvious answer. It's what "hacked the election" means to the weakminded.

[George Rebane]

I take great pleasure (an a smug feeling of righteousness) watching our left-leant commenters studiously ignore the substantive and relevant repartees placed gingerly at their feet by non-collectivist and very politically incorrect commenters. Our lefties don't seem to want to touch any of them with a ten-foot pole.

And their attempts at logical inference. Never mind evidence; if in their heart of hearts they know the guilty, then roll the tumbrils! Delicious ;-)

[Account Deleted]

Crossed up Bobby provides us with endless mirth and a deep look into the bottomless pit that is the mind of the left.
"... the gutting of public services for all the people in exchange for tax breaks for corporations and their owners, etc. etc."
All the people? So - Bill Gates calls the police to report a break in and there's no more law enforcement? Yep - all the welfare offices are closed and the bodies are piling up out in the streets.
'gutting of public services'? Name one. Pure spittle blowing.
It gets better.
"...they tampered with weak easily mislead minds in crucial precincts in crucial states where the 'winner take all' electoral college gave the election to trump in spite of the fact he lost the election by 3 million votes." (reminder to Bobby - California Dems changed CA to 'winner take all')
Well - this is certainly news. Cross is claiming the Rooskies can now zero in on 'weak minds' in crucial precincts, in crucial states.
Dude - don't they realize the money they could make working for the DNC?
Of course Bobby had his Kaiser Foil Helmet Of Righteous Truth on and nobody tampers with him!
Psssst, Bobby - the code word is 'meddled'. Not tampered.
Bobby could familiarize hisself with the various folks that worked for and wanted Clinton to win, but complained she was over-confident and ignored expert advice to not write off several states she assumed were hers for sure. Calling half the nation's voters derogatory names didn't help.

[George Rebane]

ScottO 536pm - Good point Scott. I'll add that there would be a bidding war between the Rs and the Ds for identifying the "weak minds" demographic, Russia could make a mint. If they weren't a clear and present danger to our country, liberal minds would provide the rest of us entertainment unmatched (well, they already do, but the contest is really serious).

[Russ]

Robert at 01:49 PM

"tampered with weak easily mislead minds in crucial precincts in crucial states" if the reports are correct using social media. It is been my experience there are a lot of weak minds on the left and the right on social media. The Mexican government was using social media to promote Hillary, why is the left not all upset about that meddling in our presidential election? Your thoughts on why the disparity?

[Bill Tozer]

Judging by just the last three comments, I must say you fine gentlemen are having too much fun. Love the [Rooskies] ‘tampered with weak easily mislead minds in crucial precincts in crucial states’ angle. Sounds like someone must have picked that up on one of his/her/tweener trusted sites, ROFLMAO.

Hmmm. Maybe RC is correct. If Jill Stein voters weren’t so darn feeble minded, weak, and easily misled, Crooked Hillary would have won WI. Said it once, I’llit again. Trump could have lost FLA and still would be in the White House. This after MSM and RC’s 5 Star news sites all mocked Trump for even thinking about campaigning in Michigan.
Another fine confirmation that Liberalism is a mental disorder.

https://patriotpost.us/memes/52277-punch

[Bill Tozer]

I am still chuckling over RC over the top comments. Where do they come up with this stuff. Oh, how silly of me. They gleaned it from their fair and balanced “accurate” news.

“ A young American who, having gone to a typical university, probably knows nothing about the Nazis and the Holocaust will now think Nazism and the Holocaust were 20th-century expressions of Trump and American conservatism.

All this hysteria is built on next to nothing. At its core, it is an attempt to undo the 2016 election. The mainstream media refuse to accept that Hillary Clinton lost. They said she would win — handily. They predicted a landslide. How could they have possibly gotten it so wrong? Their answer is they didn’t; Trump and Putin stole it.

If truth mattered to the media, their ongoing narrative would be: “Democrats and the Left still do not accept Trump victory.”

https://patriotpost.us/opinion/57284-the-greatest-hysteria-in-american-history

If only the truth mattered to the media. If only bullfrogs could fly.