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14 December 2009

Comments

Jeff

Pretty interesting, I have felt this all along.
This IS Social Justice.

Mikey McD

I would have liked to see another column: "people that have faith in government to solve more problems than government creates?"

Steve Enos

Left wing liberals? Can't you read the poll results? Looks like Catholics either lead the pack or are near the top on a number of these like, reincarnation, yoga (so doing yoga is a left wing lib thing?), spiritual energy, astrology.

And what First Lady was in the White House that consulted with a "psychic advisory" on important and day-to-day issues and then told her husband, the President what he should do... wasn't that Nancy Reagan?

George Rebane

Steve, you do miss the point. The relevant dimension along which the data slices relate to liberal policies being promoted is the right/left demarcation.

Nice anecdote about Nancy Reagan though.

Steve Enos

Or maybe it's you that miss the point George. Maybe you are olny about who you believe is "pushing" these lib things like yoga. Why isn't it about the "main stream" that is embracing them and has for thousands of years. Astrology and yoga have been around for a bit. Can you give credit to the "main stream" that they can decide what to believe in?

Try yoga George, millions and millions across the world have been doing it for thousands of years, even Republicans do yoga.

And let's not forget one of the highest profile and most powerful "believers" ever to step foot in the White House... Nancy Reagan! So I guess Nacy was under the grips of the left wing lib's too. WOW!

George Rebane

The conversation instantly goes insane with you Steve. Who is "pushing" what? Am I the only one doing what? "giving credit" to the "main stream"? Inhibiting decisions about what to believe? What the hell are you talking about???

I am presenting recent data on the nation's aggregate beliefs that fly in the face of years of characterization of the conservative stereotype by the MSM and leftwing intellectuals. That's all.

Steve, if you have a coherent point about the Pew survey, please share it with us.

Mikey McD

I found the PEW research very enlightening. Thanks for sharing.

Steve Enos

Georege you say yu are jsut providing data? You bet... "Now our leftwing cum socialist friends have been telling everyone"... that just data? Nope, just more useless bashing that dominates the ability to have a rational discussion.

Maybe you can call Nancy Reagan and she can talk to her "psychic advisory" and help you understand a point that differs from yours.

George you seem to be getting angry and mean, sad to see you go over the edge. Yoga is a great way to relax and it looks like a lot of folks do it, including a lot of Catholics.

Steve Enos

George, it's your story headline that reads "Liberal Beliefs Revealed". As Nancy Reagan and her "psychic advisory" show reincarnation, yoga, spiritual energy, astrology are embraced by a very wide range of folks, it's not a lib agenda being pushed on them.

Isn't the basis of Christian belief based on "spiritual energy" and faith in the unseen?

George Rebane

Steve, my previous answer to you stands.

The basis of Christian belief is the historical recounting of the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ, his resurrection, and the message of mankind's salvation that he delivered.

Steven Frisch

I am sorry, but I am trying to figure out, from a rational point of view, how the idea that God can father a mortal being like Jesus Christ, that that being can be resurrected (which is kind of akin to reincarnation) once dead, and that his resurrection can lead to salvation, could possibly be considered any more logical than spiritual healing or yoga. I would like to see you prove "the incarnation of God as Jesus Christ, his resurrection, and the message of mankind's salvation that he delivered."

Some say that the point that more conservatives believe in God is proof of their illogic.

Who the heck are you to judge someone beliefs?

How is you implying that liberals who practice yoga are knuckle dragging illogical cretans any different than a liberal not respecting your belief.

You are not only on thin ice, you are proving your intolerance. Your just a mean old man George. I agree with Mr. Enos, do some friggin' yoga.

George Rebane

Mr Frisch, it is apparent that you and Mr Enos attended the same school of logical discourse. Mr Enos asked a question which I simply answered. From that answer you seem to have drawn all kinds of conclusions that seem to agitate you.

For reference, I repeat my first answer to Mr Enos - 'I am presenting recent data on the nation's aggregate beliefs that fly in the face of years of characterization of the conservative stereotype by the MSM and leftwing intellectuals. That's all.'

Steve Enos

Here's an idea, for whatever it's worth. How about we answer the following, single question:

Q: Isn't the foundation of Christian belief based on "spiritual energy" and faith in the unseen?

So, it looks like a clear, kinda simple question.

My position to the above question is Yes, it is. I’m taking the position that anyone that is not an atheist is banking on some sort of faith in the unseen and/or spiritual energy of some type or another and Christians are on board with this. W

When the plane starts a plunge into the ocean we all would likely check in with some form of spiritual energy or faith in the unseen. Everyone becomes a believer on some level at that point. Never hurts to check in, nothing to lose by doing so.

Christianity is based on a collection of stories. I’m going with almost all (if not all) forms of beliefs are based on stories. Mythology, more stories. Lot’s of stories that tell many things, many events, many lessons, explanations for the unknown and in far to many cases a claim that their religion, their beliefs, their stories, their God is the only one, the only correct one. Now that can lead to some trouble and often has.

So my answer is Yes, “the foundation of Christian belief is based on "spiritual energy" and faith in the unseen. And it isn’t a lib thing, it isn’t a teaparty thing, it isn’t a republican thing or a democrat thing. It’s simple, “the foundation of Christian belief is based on "spiritual energy" and faith in the unseen”, in the same plane as everyone one else.

George Rebane

OK SteveE, that's a reasonable proposal. You wish to take the conversation beyond the scope of my post, fair enough.

"Spiritual energy" is a concept more familiar to new age 'faiths' and belief systems. Christianity belongs to a set of religions whose cosmology is centered around humans having an persistent existence/dimension beyond space/time which is usually called the soul. That soul is unseen, yet claimed to be felt by some. Space/time life is seen as a preparation for eternal life in the presence of a today unseen God. Eternity is believed by some to be time extended to infinity, and others to be existence/consciousness out of time.

This is a very short and incomplete summary of the so-called transcendent aspect of Christianity. I hope it serves. I welcome a more in depth discussion of this, but think it should be part of another thread that begins with a post that advances some definite proposition.

Steve Enos

Christianity is a rather new religion. Long, long before its "birth" the concept of spiritual energy and top down belief systems were wide spread, some bottom up belief systems. Most "new age" faiths are not very new, started long before the story of Christianty sprouted up.

George Rebane

Yes, my use of 'new age' was meant as a label for the recently popularized belief systems, many of which draw their inspiration from the Vedantic traditions of the east which does pre-date Christianity. Under 'new age' I don't include the various established forms of Hindusism, Buddhism, and Taoism.

With regard to 'spiritual energy' - that itself is not a consistent notion in the larger new age beliefs, and most certainly does not enjoy a common definition in the established eastern religions. In Christianity, the closest that one can come to the general notion of spiritual energy is to be imbued with and feel the presence of the Holy Spirit.

Christians believe that God reveals Himself to Man as a structured being - Father (Brahma), Son (e.g. Krishna), Holy Spirit (Prana) - although the Christian and, say, Hindu trinities do not map exactly. In Christianity the 'game of God' (e.g. Srimad Bhagavatam) involves the one-shot material embodiment of the soul (Atman) in an earthly life. At bodily death the disposition of the soul is varied depending on the type or branch of Christianity.

Very little of this is taught in modern Christian churches which are purposed to primarily serve other contemporary needs.

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