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15 March 2011

Comments

Barry Pruett

With all of the things in this world that hurt others (earthquakes, tsunamis, tornadoes, floods), why are some so insistent on killing others...children no less?

Steve Frisch

Barry, what do you think of identifying the killers primarily by their religion and using the term "raghead" to describe them? Is murder predominantly a religious act, or is it an abhorrent individual act? And if it is an individual act, why would one identify the killers by religion first?

What do you think of identifying critics of a primary religious identification of the killers as "useful idiots" and "moralizing pricks" and implying that they are enamored and apologists for murder?

How does the use of these events to make a political point about the patriotism of others ("and the ensuing light in which they cast our country") jive with your Rotarian vows?

Why would you condemn murder, but in the very same comment fail to condemn the perpetuation of religious and ethnic stereotypes that encourage murder?

I'm sorry, I just find it hard to believe that a Christian would not see the inherent inconsistency in that position.

Steve Frisch

That should read 'enablers' not 'enamored'.

Michael R. Kesti

That should read "jibe" rather than "jive".

Barry Pruett

Steve: Are you asserting that the killers did not first identify themselves by religion before they killed a Jewish family because they were Jewish? It appears that George is only identifying the killers in the same way they first identified themselves.

Todd Juvinall

It fascinates me that a person who declares they are not a religious person or a Christian is always the first to be offended and use the offenders religion as a way to criticize that person. I think the offended is somehow trying to gain some moral high ground, but to me it doesn't work. If the offended was a fellow Christian (in this case), then I think the offended would have more weight in some moral argument. Since the offended person has declared pagan beliefs, I would say the opinion by the offended is moot.

Steve Frisch

Thanks Kesti.

Mikey McD

Rebane, I would welcome your prognostications about the various scenarios which could transpire in Japan; specific to the nuclear power plants. Just how bad are the worst case scenarios?

Re: coverage of the Fogel Massacre (my heart is enraged at such senseless/irrational hate). It would be beneficial if peaceful muslims chose to speak out against such cowardly and vicious acts.

To this redneck the difference between an islamist and a nazi are minimal.

Steve Frisch

Barry, if you follow George's link you will see that there is nothing in the story from IsraelNationalNews to document that the killers identified themselves first as Muslims. Nor is there anything in the story to support the allegation that they killed the family because they were Jewish. As a matter of fact, there is nothing in the link to even document that the killers were Muslims! Based on the link provided by George that is all pure speculation.

Now, if he wanted to provide more information he might have linked to this story in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/14/fogel-family-massacre-israelis-palestinians

But of course that does not serve George's purpose because in the Guardian coverage clearly quotes Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas condemning the killings as inhuman and immoral; and goes on to report that Palestinians were equally activist. Further research uncovers that dozens of Palestinian organizations have come out roundly condemning this horrific murder.

Speculating on motive based on presumed religious affiliation is bigotry.

Providing only a portion of the information to elicit a desired emotional response is propaganda. Clearly George has learned at the feet of the masters.

Socratic method aside, can you please answer my questions concerning the Rotarian vows?

Steve Frisch

Once again a typo, 'activist' should read 'appalled'.

Steve Frisch

For once, I agree with McD, although feel compelled to note that Palestinians are speaking out against this heinous act of murder.

Steve Frisch

Todd, I do not profess to be a Christian, but if your theological understanding is that your accountability is to man, not God, then I think you must have missed more than one Sunday.

Todd Juvinall

So you are a pagan then? I was fairly confident since you seem to have a disdain for Jesus Christ.

Steven Frisch

Todd, to be a Pagan I would need to either believe in polytheism, or a non-Christian religion.

A more accurate term would be either Heathen, which means I do not believe in either the Christian or Jewish religions; or atheist, which means I do not believe in any deity.

I however have no disdain for either the teaching or philosophy of Jesus Christ; as a matter of fact I think its readily apparent that I am more of a follower of Christian moral philosophy than you are!

Next time I am going to have to charge you for your continuing education, nothing is free you know!

George Rebane

Opening this morning’s (15mar11) WSJ we read Bret Stephen’s perspective on the slaughter of the Israeli family - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576200270134133028.html

And a H/T to Steve Frisch, the local left’s big gun intellectual, for his reliable return to provide Exhibit A on the progressives’ interpretation of our outrage.

Steven Frisch

George, the proverbial apple of propaganda does not fall far from the tree of origin. You may call yourself an American but your European tradition is what my peasant ancestors left Europe to avoid.

Mikey McD

I struggle to conjure up an alternative motive (besides that of a vile religion) which could = a group of men stalking and massacring a family; including slitting the throat of an infant?

Todd Juvinall

I appreciate your honesty about being a heathen Frisch. We all suspected you were a denier. We do all crack up at your self importance though. I have met many people like you and your ilk never disappoints. We actually sit around and have a beer while guffawing at your posts, as well as Pelline's. We know you actually believe you are smarter and we let you believe it. Regarding George's ancestry. The Baltic States were some of the most advanced northern peoples and George proves his intelligence every day. It is far superior to your Frisch. I must say, I do tire of besting you I need a better opponent.

Steve Enos

Mikey, there are many potential motives for these types of unthinkable things.

Take the Charles Manson "family" and their helter skelter killing, it's just one example. Sadly there are many more possible motivations than "religion".

George Rebane

SteveF, my country calls me an American and has so honored me in its service both in and out of uniform. It is beyond the pale to have the likes of you become interpreter and arbiter of what is American.

Dixon Cruickshank

I really do find it hard to believe anybody and we have 2 that can't realize the facts in this case. Glad you two aren't lawyers

George maybe print the response from the Hamas web site - with the comments, the arabic one

Barry Pruett

"Last Friday, apparently one or more members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, the terrorist wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's 'moderate' Fatah party, broke into the West Bank home of Udi and Ruth Fogel. The Jewish couple were stabbed to death along with" thri young children."

Is it the truth? Yep.

Barry Pruett

"How does the use of these events to make a political point about the patriotism of others...jive with your Rotarian vows?"

I did not use these events to make a political point, so your question contains a faulty premise. Leaving that aside, what George said is apparently true.

Members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, the terrorist wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's 'moderate' Fatah party WHO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as Muslims terrorists killed an entire Jewish family. George simply pointed out their self-identification...and you are attacking George? Priceless.

Todd Juvinall

I think Frisch and Enos attack George and the rest of us because for some perverted reason we may never know, those two admire the terrorists. I think their defense of these scumbags is very sick.

Douglas Keachie

Are all "Islamists" and all "ragheads" sneaking into Israeli homes? How many of folks identifiable by these two terms? Is it not well into the hundreds of millions? Seems like not all are doing this. In fact just a few extreme nutcases, equivalent to our Idaho Hitler nutcases, are doing this.

Since our Idaho NAZI nutcases are Americans, and probably at least some of them wear blue jeans, if they killed one illegal immigrant, would you say:

"Blue jeaned Americans murdered young man questing for a better life on this planet? Other Americans celebrated the stopping of illegal immigration."


Dixon Cruickshank

Something just so odd about defending SELF INDENTIFIED Muslum terriosts, can't quite put my finger on it - but isn't chubby bitching about somebody calling him a dumbass today.

Maybe if he lived in Israel that wouldn't seem so bad after all

I also find it beyond believe that he thinks he can pinpoint the perpatrator - that must be a long and unruley line, you could probably damn near sell tickets

btw I am quite familar with term, Susan uses it often

Douglas Keachie

I hate THESE crapheads as much as anyone on this blog:

Members of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade, the terrorist wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's 'moderate' Fatah party WHO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as Muslims terrorists killed an entire Jewish family.

I do not hate all who believe in Islam or all who are identifiable as Arabs, as george's statement indicates he does.

Barry's statement is an accurate, George's paints a substantial part of the world's population with the crime, WRONG!

Steve Enos

George... this claim by Todd Juvinall is so far over the top... will you address this?

Juvinall posted... "those two admire the terrorists"

George... will you apply some standards to your blog or is this a place to make these types of posts?

Dixon Cruickshank

Well if the shoe fits Stevie, you both did defend them - your trying to compare it to Charles Manson ??? jesus thats a reach and Frisch just went on and on

so whats your complaint, you and he wrote it, so maybe don't write it next time

Steve Frisch

Barry, I did not say you were making a political point, you are posting on the site, so I was merely asking you how it jibes with your Rotarian vows. I think the point that you won't answer that simple question speaks volumes about your understanding that condoning the behavior here is inconsistent.

The point I made, clearly effectively or it would not have stirred up this much manure, is that George did not attempt to provide information on the incident, he chose to post bloody, emotion inducing photographs of the murder, and attempts to paint all Muslims with a single brush, as evil, subhuman terrorists. This is the very sort of mind set and behavior that led to numerous acts of genocidal warfare over the course of human history, including one that George has direct personal, and I suspect formative, experience with, all of it outside the Pale.

Todd, I am sorry that you feel inferior, but then I guess your inferiority complex explains a lot about your braggadocio about you experience at airports. I think your ignorance is plain to all.

And finally, George, hide behind your military experience all you want; a bigot, is a bigot, is a bigot; and no amount of self aggrandizement can make up for the point that the very values you served to protect are diminished by your writings.

You may be a citizen, but you sir, are no American.

Once again, it only through the intervention of the righteous that this blog maintains what little web presence it has.

Good Day.

[Good-bye Mr Frisch.]

Todd Juvinall

Frisch, where did you get the idea I thought I was inferior? Never said it. One thing we can all be sure of with you is your terrible inferiority complex. There are drugs for that. You admire terrorists, I don't. You need to read your stuff before you hit the submit button. Foolish talk bites one's own butt. BTW, when the women swooned at me passing through the airport X-Ray you could hear a pin drop they were so grateful.

Frisch, George is so much smarter than you it makes my head spin. He escaped communism and Nazism and came to America. He served in the military. My guess is you did not is that right? Well, I can see why spoiled brats like you and Pelline have such disdain for the military. They are pro American. Try it some time.

Dixon Cruickshank

I do have to compliment Mr Frisch, he ceratinly is an expert on manure at least

Dixon Cruickshank

Damn you can't even call a murdering muslum terroist a name anymore without the lefty PC police arriving at your door

Did I miss a war along the way? I don't remember one for Palistinian or muslum rights?

Bob Hobert

George,I am terminally weary of the endless and useless tripe coming from the same two or three asinine fools that drowns out the intellectual commentary on this blog. I have tried not reading it, reading past it, around it... enough. I am signing off. Sorry George, your efforts to engage these lead heads in meaningful dialogue has not worked. RL is right. Over.

George Rebane

BobH is right, and I apologize to all my regular readers for this fruitless mudslinging. It is always good to hear from our left about the issues posted here. However, that seldom works out. As keeper of the keys I have been too lax. In an attempt to correct this and return to a more reasoned conversation, my first step to is to bid a farewell to Mr Steven Frisch.

Russ Steele

I thought it was a wonderful when our lefty friends decided to boycott our blogs and not post any comments. Why did they come back and demonstrate their inability to engage in a rational discussion of the issues? Why did they spend so much intellectual energy attacking people rather than the ideas presented in the body of the post? Because they are liberals, not thinkers.

Steven Frisch

[deleted]

Sarah

Cheer up Mr. Frisch one of these days you will do something productive for society; I can feel it. Goodbye. LOL

Todd Juvinall

SInce the Hispanic population of Truckee is fairly large, I would like to know how many work for SBC. I have asked Frisch this question many times becasue he was criticizing white people for being racists and not hiring minorities (a lie of course). But by golly he has never produced the the breakdown of his employees. Hmmm.

Steve Enos

Bob Hobert posted about Todd Juvinall and Dixon Cruickshank when he posted he's:

"terminally weary of the endless and useless tripe coming from the same two or three asinine fools that drowns out the intellectual commentary on this blog"

Todd Juvinall

No SteveE he was talking about you and Frisch. Accept your responsibility for your actions.

Steve Enos

Under George's Bob Crabb cartoon story George posted to Bob Crabb... "a careful perusal of the posts here will reveal that RR posts, while occasionally taking their positions to task, do not besmirch other bloggers by named... "

George... don't you read the posts made here by Todd and Dixon?

Do I really need to post some of the endless, name specific personal attack, name calling insulting, off topic posts made here by Todd and Dixon to that shows the truth?

Dixon Cruickshank

Well since we post the truth and a back track of some of my more memorable pieces would be nice, thanks for thinking of me

Dixon Cruickshank

You should checkout the new update, really good Steve, maybe come back and comment - honest

Dixon Cruickshank

crickets - just say'in

RL Crabb

Let's put some historical perspective into this quagmire. If I recall my biblical history right, the Jews conquered the land called Israel by exterminating the tribes that lived there before them. Over the centuries they themselves were conquered and shuffled around by their neighbors until they were driven out of those lands to Europe. They were persecuted by almost every European nation, until Germany came up with the "final solution".
After WWII the Europeans decided to give the Jews their old homeland back, although by that time the land was mostly occupied by Arabs. The Jews accomplished their return by murdering the British, who, for some reason going back to WWI had taken possession of the land.

Immediately, all the neighboring Arab countries declared war on Israel in a series of wars that ended with the Arabs getting their asses handed to them and Israel taking over the West Bank, which was known as Palestine and occupied by Palestinians. Over the years the Israelis have confiscated the lands owned by the Palestinians by burning their crops, bulldozing their homes and building condos for the steady stream of immigrants still coming from Europe.

Now the Arabs got their own religion, and although it was based on the Hebrew religion, it took some nasty turns over the years and if anything, has headed backwards into a medieval interpretation that allows murdering and mutilating women and forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

Gee whiz, I can't imagine why there is so much hatred and brutality in that part of the world. Who are the good guys again?

Todd Juvinall

George here is my comment from your other post you recommended I paste here.

"George, I have been fighting PC since the beginning and when the jihadist's murder innocent men, women and children we must not allow the PC nuts to hog the argument. I find it fascinating the leftwing PC fools will never say anything they consider "bad" against these killers. But, when you think about it, they do the same thing with death row inmates. They never support the victims, they always support the killers. "

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