« Debt Crisis – The knives are still out | Main | The Debt Deal - Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained (updated 2aug2011) »

01 August 2011

Comments

gregzaller

I think I read this quite differently. It appears the reasoning behind removing this brand of indoctrination would be the same as GR's for avoiding a Muslim one. The profit focused military industrial complex will use any means practical to ensure full deployment of their products.

Douglas Keachie

Just show them the church tower sniper sequence from "Saving Private Ryan."

Brad Croul

Glad to see that the US Military is applying a "don't ask, don't tell" policy towards the religious crusaders within the organization.

I doubt that the required psychological profile for missile control officers includes a susceptibility to hypnosis (with requisite church attendance) which would explain why the training manual does not need to include or reinforce quotes by SS officers or Biblical passages.

I also doubt the missile control officers in Muslim countries are a bunch of bearded, sweaty zealots with itchy trigger fingers. Instead, I bet that missile control officers and technicians, like the technicians in any highly sophisticated setting like nuclear power plant operation, or space technology, are well trained and that missile control officers have a clearly defined protocol for justifying missile launches.

However, once missiles are away one might expect to hear a "God help us", if we are the first strikers, or an "insert favorite string of expletives here" if we are the retaliators, because, at that point, it won't matter.

Todd Juvinall

It is fascinating to me the liberals always defend Islam and its intent and trash Christianity. Maybe the leftwingnuts really are supporting Islam because they are the violent psychopaths in our culture and Islam better reflects them. Christianity, Jesus forward, is peaceful and kind. Yep, maybe that is it. Lefty philosophy is truly a violent one.

George Rebane

DougK - the church sniper scene in 'Ryan' has made quite an impression on you. Could you please interpret the significance of that scene to those of us who have apparently misunderstood it?

George Rebane

BradC - given that Iran has been and continues to be the world's largest state sponsor of Islamic terrorism with the self-proclaimed Caliphate being their goal, what gives you the idea that Iran's "missile control officers and technicians, like the technicians in any highly sophisticated setting like nuclear power plant operation, or space technology, are well trained and that missile control officers have a clearly defined protocol for justifying missile launches."

Paul Emery

Todd

Are you saying Timothy McVey was a leftwingnut? How about Anders Behring Breivik? Are you saying that the left has the franchise on violent psychopaths?

How about the Army of God? Over the last 20 years, anti-abortion terrorists have been responsible for six murders and 15 attempted murders , according to the National Abortion Federation. They have also been behind some 200 bombings and arsons, 72 attempted arsons, 750 death and bomb threats and hundreds of acts of vandalism, intimidation, stalking and burglary.

Check out the Army of God Manual

http://www.armyofgod.com/AOGsel7.html

and

http://www.armyofgod.com/AOGhistory.html

All leftwingnuts right? THE violent psychopaths n our culture

M.G.: Why an interview, and why now?
A.O.G.: You asked for one, I know I can trust you, and I can't do it alone.
M.G.: Can't do what alone?
A.O.G.: Drive the abortion industry underground with or without
the sanction of government law.
M.G.: By what method?
A.O.G.: Explosives, predominantly.
M.G.: Would you care to elaborate?
A.O.G.: Certainly. First by disarming the murder weapons. That
is, by destroying the structures where the actual crimes are
being committed. Second, by disarming the persons perpetrating
the crimes by removing their hands, or at least their thumbs
below the second digit.

Paul Emery

Here's a choice AOG quote

"Annihilating abortuaries is our purest form of worship."
- Freedom Fox, A.O.G.


Todd Juvinall

Paul, your defense of Islamic terrorists is breathtaking. Your trashing of Christianity is predictable. You can cite all the abortion murderers you want and I agree they are terrible nuts, but they don't have a worldwide jihad against anyone else other than abortionists. Islamic terrorists will kill everyone who does not follow the tenets of their "holy" book which says convert or die. When McVeigh murdered he did not at any time shout "in the name of Jesus" did he? No, he hated government. The Norwegian guy was not heard shouting it either. The Ft. Hood killer and all other Islamic jihadists do shout Allah akbar. That simple little shout by them says to all people they are doing it for their religion and in the name of their religion. A person like McVeigh may have claimed he was a Christian but he did not taint the rest of Christianity because he killed for other reasons and not in the name of Jesus. Now, do you understand or are you so determined to paint Jesus as a reason to murder in his name? And for what purpose?

Todd Juvinall

Oh and PaulE, I think the suicide bomber who killed 241 Marines in Lebanon was an Islamic jihadist wasn't he? Yep. And we were there to help, just like Somalia and Black Hawk Down. Yep. So get real.

gregzaller

I understand DK's comment about the church tower sniper sequence to be making a comparison to the missile launch officer and the sniper. Both simply follow orders to accurately dispose of distant targets.

I think at this level of operation the only decision would be to target the enemy effectively. It shouldn't matter what this person believed ethically. He is part of a machine. I believe that the review of using Christian teachings in training this officer will focus on whether this is an effective and proper approach to training him to play this limited role only without injecting religion into it.

There seems to be a confusion on this blog that this action to eliminate religious references from MLO training is about comparing religions when in fact it is about eliminating religious influence at this level of command.

Brad Croul

GeorgeR, Iran detonated their first nuclear device and we are still here. Pakistan, home of Bin Laden and the Taliban horde, has had nukes for years now. North Korea, run by a possibly mentally ill leader, has nuclear weapons. No country, except the USA, has launched nukes. This is reality but your scenario is imagined.

I am glad the military reviews its training documents and has removed the offending material from the literature because I want to believe that the movie, Dr. Strangelove, is a farce and not a documentary about the inner workings of the defense department.

George Rebane

ToddJ - I think the atrocity debate really involves the notion of equivalency. The left has all along - at least since 'religion is the opiate of the masses' - attempted to paint all religions with the same broad brush. And this brush of equivalency is applied with special vigor to religions dominant in lands destined for socialism. It is a successful tactic as witnessed in Europe.

The left will even side with another religion, here Islam, in order to dispatch a second one, here Christianity. Both have in mind that they will finish the job with the other when there are only two of them left.

And comparing body counts are of no account in this debate - for obvious reasons the left learned ages ago not to do numbers.

George Rebane

BradC - Devastating logic, which seems to incorporate the notion that America's presence as the world's nuclear armed policeman with its unique ability to project power has had nothing to do with keeping nuclear explosions on the test range for the last 67 years.

Douglas Keachie

GeorgeR

"Could you please interpret the significance of that scene to those of us who have apparently misunderstood it?"

I'm not sure I've seen anyone here give any interpretation of it, and I know I haven't criticized what I haven't seen.

The scene sums up the Ambiguity of Existence, especially as related to religion, and the core horror of war. Since I have a lot to do today, I'll let you chew on that for a while, before continuing.

Douglas Keachie

Oh, I see now after your comment some references have been made. I read your comment last night, and mulled over my response. My interpretation will be different than what's been posted above. And people, please don't post, "Iran has detonated a nuclear device" unless it has actually happened, mild panic attack here....

RL Crabb

I don't doubt that knucklebeards in Tehran would like to rule the world, but aren't there a few million Sunnis who would object?

Douglas Keachie

"someday someone will set the sparks off, and we will all be blown away" ~ The Kingston Trio ~

Paul Emery

People have been hacking and whacking on each other in the name of religion singe the first caveman laid in the sun too long and started having visions about the great one in the sky that was going to allow him a place in the big golden room if he obeys specific dictates. I was not not making a direct comparison between Islamic and Christian examples of atrocity's. History would show them to be fiercely competitive. I was point the pathetic and somewhat disturbing veracity of Todds statement that "leftwingnuts that are the violent psychopaths" in our culture. At this point Todd I'd like a clarification on this. Does that include me and my friends? The Democrats? Give me a specific name or group that you place in this category. If you can't or won't, stay home. You don't belong in a civil discussion. Stay home and quit embarrassing yourself.

Steve Enos

Paul correctly posts about Todd:

"You don't belong in a civil discussion. Stay home and quit embarrassing yourself."

So why does Russ and George allow Todd to post his endless, insulting, disturbing rants time and time again? Why does Russ and George refuse to address Todd while at the same time slapping "libs" that make a comment that they think is over the top?

George… why do you let Todd do this time and time again? George, you are not a stupid man and you know what is right and you know that Todd is a major problem that you fail to address... why?

George, you have even recently posted that you have two sets of posting standards here... why?

What does that say about George's character?

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, do you consider or have you considered Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot, hey even the loon from North Korea, as sane or insane? They are certainly leftwing aren't they and a hundred millions corpses might convince you? . Why do you take it so personally when I say leftwing? Your Vice President called the Tea Party Patriots "terrorists" yesterday. Does that cause you and the whining SteveE angst? Maybe SteveE should send his letter to every newspaper and TV station in America to complain about his VP's statement. Oh, that would not be happening would it? George puts up with me because I tell the truth about you in a way others may not do. When I read the SteveE and PaulE screeds attacking me we all know you are all simply bested in the debate and you cry a river. No, George can boot me if he chooses but I do bring a different perspective to you lefty's others don't. I will not stay home PaulE, I will be working at the NCRCC booth on Friday and Saturday nights from 7-10 registering American Patriots. Stop by, and register.

George Rebane

SteveE, I think that PaulE is more than capable of taking care of his communications with ToddJ. And I'm overjoyed when they slip in a bit of this or that issue in their exchanges.

However, I feel that your attempt, no matter how well intended, to analyze or to even rehabilitate me is an exercise that will continue to disappoint.

Todd Juvinall

Well said George. If SteveE would have read the comment I made he would see his screed is simply a silly interpretation. That is what he does.

Paul Emery

So you're falling back to the old cold war warhorses to make your point. I thought you were more original than that.

George, would you tolerate the Tea Party being characterized as "rightwingnuts that are violent psychopaths?" If Todd had any balls he would reveal the specifics of who he refers to. This goes way beyond any acceptable standard of conversation and it's on your watch. I'm very disappointed and somewhat surprised by your pandering to the choir in allowing this kind of discourse.

Steve Enos

Todd claims:

"When I read the SteveE and PaulE screeds attacking me we all know you are all simply bested in the debate and you cry a river".

Nope, simple fact is Todd is mean and nasty a lot here, it's his nature it seems.

George... it's sad because you know the truth and what is right and it's not about disappointing me or Paul or anyone else. It's disappointing that you have two sets of standrads and it's disappointing you fail to hold Todd accountable for his over the line posts. It's very telling.

George Rebane

A reader advised me to read some of the comment streams on FUE's blog. It was heartening to see that he and I both allow unfettered bashing of the conservatives, libertarians, tea partiers, rightwingers, Republicans, ... both in name and ideology. From a careful perusal of RR comments, my only transgression seems to be that I allow a two way exchange to take place. I see how that can be disquieting.

Todd Juvinall

How true George. The FUE has booted all conservatives except Stoos and you allow all comers, whether left or right. Paul must be having a bad hair day and SteveE, well, no need to explain. Paul, unless you identify yourself as a leftwingnut you should not be concerned. I notice you take me to task for mentioning Mao, Stalin etc and denigrate that. You are always bashing Reagan and even go back to bash Nixon and Vietnam. Am I to ascertain from your comment you are allowed to cite the past and no one else is? I also see you did not have an answer for Biden calling the Tea Party "terrorists". Why is that?

RL Crabb

True enough, George. You are free to demonize anyone at SFR as long as it isn't the editor or the President or the Governor or the legislature. Of course, they do have Rev. Stoos to be their punching bag. It's easy when he doesn't hit back.

RL Crabb

However, I think Jeff made a big mistake by blocking Todd's comments. He could be the greatest recruiting tool the Democrats have in this county.

Todd Juvinall

Why thank you. Unfortunately for you it works in reverse because I show the democrats for the loons they are and my recruitment of conservatives is way up. You use cartoons to trash everyone and I use words to set the record straight. And I don't receive pay. Hmmm.

Paul Emery

George

It's one thing to "bash" someone with language but calling someone you disagree with a "violent psychopaths" is beyond the standards of reasonable people. Too bad. By allowing this level of discourse you degrade what could be a valuable resource for intelligent dialogue. Todd completely intended to include contributors to this blog in his discourse. Again Todd, who did you refer to specifically as being violent psychopaths? Names please. You can at least have the courage to support your convictions.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, reread my original post and then perhaps you will see I never called you anything. Sheesh!

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, here is a copy/paste of my comment. Read it and perhaps you will see I didn't call you anything. Why so defensive anyway, I am now a "terrorist" and so is George since we are, or sympathize with, the Tea Party.

"It is fascinating to me the liberals always defend Islam and its intent and trash Christianity. Maybe the leftwingnuts really are supporting Islam because they are the violent psychopaths in our culture and Islam better reflects them. Christianity, Jesus forward, is peaceful and kind. Yep, maybe that is it. Lefty philosophy is truly a violent one."

Now Paul, after having read this (and it came after someone else's comment, not yours) please tell us all how it is this pisses you off enough to have me banned from the blog?

And, since I have never asked for you and SteveE or any other liberal to be banned for your speech, how do you justify your position in asking for me to be muzzled?

Todd Juvinall

One last thing. Since Paul never answers my questions I feel duty bound to return the favor.

George Rebane

PaulE, I'm afraid that ToddJ is correct. Here he ascribed a label (violent psychopath) to a class (leftwingnuts), and not to any specific named individual.

This is in marked contrast to commenters (Steve Frisch and Mike Thornton come to mind) calling, for example, me personally all manner of vile names. It is these comments that I started deleting some time ago.

But that's a standard I set for myself - if you call me a bad name (and assigning me to a recognized ideological class (conservative, communist) is NOT a bad name), I will pull your remark and not talk to you. All other commenters are free to also divorce themselves from such dialogues, but that is up to them.

RL Crabb

Todd, I wouldn't have you banned for all the jobs in China. Your rhetoric is a constant source of inspiration to me. Perhaps you should consider parking yourself behind an x-ray screen at the Repubby booth at the fair, so as to attract women through your transparent manhood. Of course, then you'd be radioactive. Or at least more than you already are.

George Rebane

This semantic dissection might become both entertaining and enlightening.

I define and understand ‘bash’ to be an attribution of fault to a person’s actions whether performed as planned or through ignorant bungling. A perfectly good lower temperature synonym is ‘criticize’, but ‘bash’ has more than a tinge inference that the fault of the bashee is of more seminal nature, one that will emerge again from the so bashed if given a chance. And the basher is also of a lower form who resorts to such peremptorily crude assignations, instead of a more refined analysis and reporting of the perceived shortcomings.

‘Regressive’ is an appellation of desperation that was introduced to these pages by a former commenter. He did not understand that ‘progressive’ is a legitimate appellation for a certain socio-political ideology that is a mark of pride for those so persuaded. (Witness the number of times progressives so labeled themselves and their efforts during and in the aftermath of the just signed debt limit legislation.) So ‘regressive’ was fashioned to counter in a pejorative way the progressive label. But regressive is an obvious dig and a label that no one would append to themselves; it is name calling in its full sense. A limited imagination and/or vocabulary kept the gentleman from venturing out of that referential rut.

I invite readers to dissect more labels or disagree with the above.

In this kind of exercise we note that labels are good communication tools, because in a short sequence of symbols they summarize and convey so much of what the writer/speaker wants to communicate about the target notion, group, or person. And the launch of such a label gives the ensuing responder a choice of either staying on the issue, or going off on a tangent to criticize the character and genetic make-up of the label user. The fun need never stop.

Paul Emery

Todd Let's make it very simple. This is the equation of what you said.

leftwingnuts = violent psychopaths


As far a Biden is concerned if that's what he said it's inappropriate.


Since you refused to provide details about who you are refering to as a leftwingnut (violent psychopath) I did a little research and guess what I found! It's pretty clear who the individuals are that Todd refers to and it's not Mao and Marx, it's our neighbors and participants on this blog.

You can repeat this by searching Todd leftwingnut on this blog
From the search:

Here is another example of ignorance from a leftwingnut. (Mike Thornton)

I think that letter writer is Kate Hancock, a leftwingnut poster from the leftwingnut's blog.

Thornton, you apparently don't read much except your leftwingnut friends.

Barry the leftwingnut Cutter has now supposedly read the above Grand Jury Report and reading his ...

George, SteveF is a plain old leftwingnut hypocrite.

I see Mr. Haskell is a devotee' of MSNBC. The leftwingnut channel adored by the radical socialis...

BTW George, my designated reader of the leftwingnut blog directed me to read a tortured and long ...


Because they are truthful. Leftwingnuts ranters from Truckee don't.

George has no mechanism to deny a post, you are simply a leftwingnut whiner caught with his hand in the cookie jar.
re Douglas Keachie

When I created and KNCO aired my talk show called Republican Policy Friday back in the 90's we usually got the leftwingnuts doing the call in.


The Tea Party is full of people who are fed up with the leftwingnuts and their lying ways.


Thorton spewing his leftwingnut talking points again.


Barry, I think Pelline etal, the local leftwingnuts portly people, are having a cow.

Todd Juvinall

So Paul, are you upset I use that term becasue you take it personal? Please do us all a favor and do the same search on the FUE's blog but put in just wingnut. They use that term and have for a couple of years now. They call me that and worse, but I don't give a rats arse. I turned their slight against conservatives into a like slight against liberals. I am truly creative don't you agree? Oh, I guess you are just fishing and thanks for the above post finding all my leftwingnut references. Saved me from doing it myself.

Crabb, you also inspire me but for different reasons. Regading my light hearted joke about coming theu a Xray machine at the airport with my fiancee. You guys must be jealous because you and Frisch sure regurgitate it. What a hoot!

Steve Frisch

Hey, I get booted when I call George a dangerous, anti-American religious bigot, which happens to be the truth. So why not Todd?

Todd Juvinall

I don't call the host names like you do SteveF. He is none of the things you call him but we all know about you. You need to run for office in Red China. Oh, that's right, they don't do that.

Paul Emery

Todd

You have no credibility here or anywhere else. You can't even support your own position. Further you don't even try.

Todd Juvinall

Paul I care less about your slights because I have had to deal with your ilk all my political life. Water off a ducks back.

Todd Juvinall

Oh and BTW, when you answer all mine, I might answer yours.

RL Crabb

"Water off a duck's back..." I thought I heard quaking on this blog.

Todd Juvinall

Now that's funny!

Brad Croul

Todd,

The comment you made,

"It is fascinating to me the liberals always defend Islam and its intent and trash Christianity. Maybe the leftwingnuts really are supporting Islam because they are the violent psychopaths in our culture and Islam better reflects them. Christianity, Jesus forward, is peaceful and kind. Yep, maybe that is it. Lefty philosophy is truly a violent one.",

follows three posts by people who might not be as conservative as yourself, so it could be construed as an attack on one or all three of the commenters. It sounded to me kind of like a bully who does not want the new kids in his treehouse, so he tries to run them off by getting mean.

The problem in general with your comment is that it is totally irrelevant. It has nothing to do with anything related to the original blog post or the comments preceding your post.
It is pure, unadulterated bloviation, and a classic troll move.

Paul Emery

Todds political life? Now that's an oxymoron. That ended around 1992 or earlier. He further ambitions were quickly rejected. Since then what you hear from Todd on this blog is about all there is to it. It was enough public service time to take advantage of some sweetheart benefits from the county though.

Todd Juvinall

Paul, you are too funny! You libs always get personal.

Croul, kettle=black. You are a troll here and elsewhere. You still call Christians crusaders for goodness sakes.

RL Crabb

It's really too bad that we are reduced to this level of debate, but that's what happens when Todd and others start name calling. For the record, I don't refer to either side as "commies" or "stormtroopers", because it simply is not true. Those on SFR like to think that they are above it all, but in essence they are doing much the same.

Usually, I wouldn't respond to the Toddster's unimaginative and repititious slanders, but it's hot and I'm bored.

Todd Juvinall

Oh and Paul, after I retired from the BOS in 1992, I did create CABPRO and became the Chairman of the NCRCC as well as running for Assessor in 1998. After I was defeated I ran CABPRO for a few more years and gave it over to others. During 1995-98, I had a KNCO radio program called Republican Policy Friday and in 1996 I started a TV program on NCTV about politics to inform people about the Propositions on the ballot and then current events.. So, I guess you are simply wrong. Oh, and I worked for about a year for Assemblyman Richter putting a bill together to save the taxpayers about 5 billion bucks. It was defeated by Willie Brown. So, give us your resume' won't you? Oh and yes I get a small PERS check when I turned 55. I put my money into the pot. All during this time I raised a family and kept away from booze and babes. LOL. Anyway, I can see what you are doing here and you should be ashamed of yourself. Tell us how you are doing, you sound very troubled.

Todd Juvinall

Crabb, you crack me up. I haven't name called here I was simply responding to the slander against Christians by the left. You really are bored I guess.

Todd Juvinall

I have just reviewed all my comments on this thread post. I did not call any liberal/progressive/indie a name on a personal basis. I think you have misread my words. You have called me many things here in a very personal way. So, I think I have hit a nerve on the discussion about the left trashing Christians and supporting Islamic extremism.

Paul Emery

Calling local people violent psychopaths isn't name calling ?

I don't claim to have a political career. Mostly I've played music, produced concerts, ran the Center for the Arts and worked at KVMR. That's about it.

I don't consider working for partisan causes a political career. I could care less about your drinking habits or babe count and I don't think anyone else does either.

Todd Juvinall

Paul, you have lost it man.

Brad Croul

Todd, the theme of the original article by GeorgeR was religious in nature and involved the military, hence my "crusade" reference. Maybe I took "the bait" where he calls truthout.org a socialist/communist news organization (I have never seen it before), and infers that if we don't have Biblical based military manuals we are in danger of Muslim indoctrinated crusaders who will have no problem launching nukes.

BTW - I said religious, not Christian, crusaders. And, no, I don't think we need Biblical (or any other religious based text) passages in our military manuals because it is just plain wierd. It's the military, not Sunday school.

Todd Juvinall

I think George was talking about values. It would seem a value based on life, love of others and the importance of life is more valuable in the person with the "nuclear button" than someone who thinks pushing the button willy nilly will give them martyr status and 72 virgins. That is what I read form his post.

Steve Enos

If you want the folks with their "fingers on the button" to have "a value based on life, love of others and the importance of life" then you should give that job to some Buddists.

George Rebane

I am talking about values and mores. The most effective military forces in history have always been those fighting under some banner above and beyond the secular humanist kind. Troops have always faced death much better when oblivion is not their reward for courage.

(Most forms Buddhism recoil at the very thought of purposive taking of life.)

Sinclair Lews

the biggest threat to the US is terrorists like the author of this post.

Todd Juvinall

No, the sock puppet Sinclair Lewis is the greatest threat. George served in the military and I think SL was a Canadian bacon. This is always the result of a liberal feeling guilty about life. We all know when a leftwingnut sock puppet attacks that we have won the day.

The comments to this entry are closed.