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28 August 2011

Comments

RL Crabb

What makes you think the Repubbys will ever be happy with redistricting, given they are 30% of the electorate? Look at it this way, all those moves will help the struggling real estate market.

George Rebane

Bob, never claimed that the Repubs will ever be completely satisfied with any set of lines drawn through California. However, a very clear process exists to draw a set of such lines which takes away any vestige of the Repubs' ability to bitch and moan about the result. Such a process was advertized for the current commission, and then overturned through subterfuge into just another form of camouflaged gerrymandering. And the matter is technical enough so that the public will never understand it beyond the sound bites of the loudest demagogue. Perhaps it deserves a post to attempt a clarification.

Todd Juvinall

The process had great promise for fairness but as usual, the people are left out. Democrats will have a free reign and we can all hold on to our wallets and our property as best we can. We are Greece.

Russ Steele

George,

I sincerely do not want to recreate NCMW. One I have moved the new blog to Wordpress that allows me more find tuned control over the comment section. Since "Is it 2012 in Nevada County Yet" is a political blog, I am only allowing people to post under their real names, no sock puppets hurling verbal bomb and then running back under their rock. No name, no post. When a commenter run out of intellectual capacity to argue an issue and starts name calling, then they will be banned. The 2012 election will be about important issues to the future of this nation. I want to make sure that Nevada County has a clear understanding of those issue, to the best of my ability and of those who choose to post or comment here.

RL Crabb

You're a hopeless junkie, Russ.

RL Crabb

I'm sure that there are many Republoservatives who are disappointed that Irene didn't carry Washington D.C. out to sea. As it is, the only Washington that got cracked was George's Needle. Too bad Davy Crockett isn't around to patch it up like the Liberty Bell.

Meanwhile, folks like Pat Robertson and Michelle Bachmann tell us that these kind of disasters wouldn't happen if abortion was illegal and gay people went to rehab. I'd sacrifice a virgin if I could find one.

The reality is that weather is a lot like political parties. They lead you to believe they're going to do one thing and then do the opposite.

George Rebane

"... weather is a lot like political parties. ..." Very good Bob. How can that be communicated to the man-made global warming zealots?

BTW, where did you get those interesting Robertson and Bachmann sentiments?

RL Crabb

This reporter is clearly biased, but Pat and Michele said what they said...

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/08/michele_bachmann_hurricane_god_earthquake.html

Steve Enos

George rants..."meanwhile the damn thing up and turns into a big rainstorm. So there he sits wearing his 'FEMA One' jacket".

George, can you offer examples where the storm was "politicized" as you claim?

They did a great job getting ready for this storm... and news flash far fewer people died in the storm because of advance preparations. They got ready and it was good that they did. Something wrong with that George?

Did you review the amount of damage, dollar loss and loss of life due to this "rainstorm" as you call it? Sorry, facts show the damage to be wide spread and extensive... not the results of a rain storm, it was a Cat 2 that hit the east coast.

Seems the one trying to "politicize" this event is George... and Pat Robertson and Michelle Bachmann that think it happened due to abortion and gays.

D. King

You will have to sign in to YouTube see this report on the hurricane and the reaction of the local population of undocumented workers (my take) taking the day off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QkHW3KfPmo

George Rebane

FYI, to those who only read local blogs, it was the very progressive NPR which also lamented that Irene had turned only into a heavy "rainstorm", and Mayor Bloomberg and others are now being criticized for overreaction.

Furthermore, in another segment the NPR worthies reported on how the politicians were scrambling on this hurricane so as not to look asleep at the switch. The highlight of that report was that Obama could not project enough concern while silly sitting in his situation room, so he had to round up the Cabinet and haul them all over to FEMA HQ where he might get some media time.

But again, I thank the local lefties who credit RR for being ahead of the curve on such nationally broadcast sentiments.

Todd Juvinall

George, SE never has anything here he can agree with. You were correct on your analysis as evidenced by the news reports from around the country today.

George Rebane

Bob, thanks for your 846am. Reading the reported quotes brings to mind a thought that our secular humanist friends might consider remarkable, and maybe even unbelievable. The references to God's hand in the world's events, especially the cataclysmic ones, are shared by all religions (can't think of an exception), especially the Vedic, Judeo-Christian, and most certainly Islam.

For example, what Bachmann said is something that is plausible and most acceptable to a couple of hundred million Americans who claim Christian, Jewish, and Islamic belief systems. And there you have highlighted another division among us. Sacrificing virgins is good - or was it sacrificing virginity? - whatever.

RL Crabb

I suppose your criticism of storm hype extends to Governor Christie, who told people to get the hell off the beaches, or Glenn Beck, who used it as an example of how we are not prepared for disasters. It sounds to me like a case of no good deed going unpunished.

George Rebane

Extend it does Bob. Mine is an equal opportunity criticism of all politicians who unabashedly let no disaster, real or imagined, go to waste in garnering re-election votes. (Kinda like your beloved cartoons.)

Brad Croul

I don't think the storm was politicized but I think it was over-reported. As usual, every news organization with a video camera had some intrepid reporter doing Jim Cantori impressions, leaning into the wind with windbreakers a flappin'.

Since Katrina, the consensus of opinion is "better safe than sorry". That is still good advice from where I sit in my abandoned missile silo.

Steve Enos

Todd... can you stay on topic and stop with the personal attacks? Todd your posted claim that "SE never has anything here he can agree with" is just plain wrong. I agree with some, disagre with others... got it?

When you have a Cat II hurricane headed at you it's a good idea to get the hell out of the way... mostly they did due to the advance warnings and preparations. It wasn't a cry wolf event.

This hit the coast as a Cat II and downgraded as it ran up the east coast. It has caused massive amounts of damage and the flooding will continue to cause a lot more damage. Loss of life resulted too and it was reduced by getting folks out before it hit. The dollar damage amounts are very high because this was a big storm event.

To make claims it was/is no big deal is just plain wrong.


Paul Emery

Steve

I suggest you ignore anything Todd says. He is a legend in his own mind and who litters any potentially meaningful discussion with delusional garbage and unverifiable lies. His comments are just noise that I chose to filter out rather than engage with.

Ben Emery

It is a whole lot easier to point out damage then damage avoided. Making natural disasters a game while real people are struggling and dying shows how callus and disconnected we really are from reality. Where is our empathy? Nearly three dozen people are dead and thousands if not millions are negatively affected by this hurricane. These are people with family's, friends, co-workers, and people who depend on them through this web we call society. George if one of your loved ones were one of those who perished in this "rainstorm" would you have the same flippant response, probably not.


http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2011/08/29/residents-return-home-to-assess-irene-damage-with-floodwaters-still-rising/

New England towns battled floods of historic proportions, utility crews struggled to restore power to 5 million people along the East Coast, and big-city commuters coped with transit-system disruptions Monday as the rainy remnants of Hurricane Irene finally spun into Canada.

The death toll climbed to 35 people in 10 states after a number of bodies were pulled from the floodwaters in the Northeast.

Steve Enos

George said the following about President Obama:

"So there he sits wearing his 'FEMA One' jacket"

So what about Bush on 9/11?

So George... where was Bush and what did he do when he got word about the twin towers being hit?

Todd Juvinall

I see Paul Emery is spewing personal attacks again. Paul, grow up man, you are becoming a bore. Please, stop your lies man. Besides, you simply make things up and this place is where we expose that stuff.

George Bush handled 9/11 as best as anyone could. Sure he sat there with the kids after he was told about the towers and maybe he should have put his cape on and flew to New York instantly. Maybe he was planning, maybe he didn't want to scare the children. Don't liberals do everything for the children? Yeah, right. Obama sat in a room with some pinheads and shuffled some papers. Big deal. Bush had no idea if the country was being attacked by one or ten thousand. He became quite an inspiration with the bullhorn on the rubble and that act makes Obama and his teleporomters look pretty lame. Bush is/was not perfect but you liberals are simply ungrateful and totally partisan.

RL Crabb

And Obama had no idea whether the hurricane would smack into the biggest population center in the U.S. This is a lame argument. Neither President deserves to be blamed for circumstances beyond their control.

Todd Juvinall

Now see, there is a agreement. OMG!

George Rebane

News item - even in response to Irene, FEMA accounted for little and that was/is late. It was the local offices of emergency management that prepared, did what could be done, and are still doing it. The collectivists' constant hope that needed manna will fall from the highest heaven has been and forever will be an exercise in futility. Keep the money at home, establish reserves, and prepare for your own rainy days.

Paul Emery

Bachmann says

“I don’t know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians,” Bachmann told the crowd. “We’ve had an earthquake; we’ve had a hurricane. He said, ‘Are you going to start listening to me here?’ Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we’ve got to rein in the spending.’”

Rebane says

"For example, what Bachmann said is something that is plausible and most acceptable to a couple of hundred million Americans who claim Christian, Jewish, and Islamic belief systems."

No George. Most people of religious faith do not believe that natural disasters are Gods punishment to America for not supporting Republican economic screed.

George Rebane

PaulE, I never made that claim. And as soon as you temper your (usual) hyperbole, we can get back to what could be a very interesting discussion.

Todd Juvinall

Bachmann was telling a joke. I have a link on a story I just did. Paul is unfortunately unaware of the video. Words do not pass on the context.

George Rebane

Todd, please include in your comment the cited link to your story.

Paul Emery

Of course she recanted (later) on what her campaign managers must have flipped out about. Even as a joke it trivialized the effects of a natural disaster that killed many people and caused millions in damages. Not too funny. It doesn't matter that much because she's really a loser candidate whose purpose is to keep the press busy on slow news days.

George

I quoted you exactly. Please straighten me out with an explanation of what you meant to say.

Todd Juvinall

http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2011/08/dont-tell-me-what-to-do.html

It is in the first and second line.

George Rebane

PaulE, where in hell did I say or even imply that "Most people of religious faith ... believe that natural disasters are Gods punishment to America for not supporting Republican economic screed." And you claim this is an "exact" quote??!!

Steve Enos

"Bachmann was telling a joke".... nope after she made this statement her handlers worked to try and pull thjis statement back... just a try at "dog ate my homework" ass covering from her camp AFTER THE FACT.

RL Crabb

Sounds a little flimsy to me, and doesn't change the fact that Robertson (and Jerry Falwell) made the same kind of statement after 9/11. If you're President or running for President, you have to be more careful about jokes. Remember when Reagan made the joke about nuking Russia during a sound check, not realizing the mike was hot? Could've caused some serious problems if taken the wrong way by the wrong people.

The right is always pushing the 'secret socialist agenda' of the Democrats. Why wouldn't the same be true of the religious right's agenda?

Paul Emery

George
Please read more carefully my comments.

I never said you specifically believed that, only that you said that it is within faith dictum's of 200 million Americans to believe their God is capable of controlling nature as described by Michelle Bachmann to exert Godly influence on earthly events .I disagree that most religious people believe that. Grant me my editorial edge that ties it to Bachmanns regretable joke.

George Rebane

BobRL - I know of no Democrats' "secret socialist agenda" that is believed by the right. The Democrats' socialist agenda is overt and has been anything but secret, especially after the wall came down and now in Obama's hyperdrive. Equally, as a church-going Christian, I know of no equivalent agenda of the religious right to remake America into an overtly Christian country that it was in yesteryear. Contemporary Christians have demonstrated themselves to be of a most lame breed in promoting their faith. Perhaps I have missed some major currents of Americana, which would be very embarrassing given that I've really tried to keep up. Please educate me.

PaulE, please write more carefully. Especially when you claim "I quoted you exactly." about words that were never written. As you know, I consider full quotes sacrosanct and do not countenance their casual use.

As to what I claimed that Americans of faith believe, that stands and can be verified empirically by attending any church service and fellowship gathering afterward. But as to the ongoing parsing of Bachmann's words, their intent and retraction, their impact on her campaign, etc, I have no firm position other than what I have said above. All of these more esoteric interpretations and arguments I am open to and read with great interest.

Paul Emery

George

Perhaps we can agree on this. If you read my post carefully you'll see your statement is clearly in quotes and was copied and pasted from your previous post. You specifically said Bachmans statement was plausible and acceptable My summation and editorial was not in quotes so I don't see how you can say I attributed it to you.

Here it is again.

Bachmann says

“I don’t know how much God has to do to get the attention of the politicians,” Bachmann told the crowd. “We’ve had an earthquake; we’ve had a hurricane. He said, ‘Are you going to start listening to me here?’ Listen to the American people because the American people are roaring right now. They know government is on a morbid obesity diet and we’ve got to rein in the spending.’”

Rebane says

"For example, what Bachmann said is something that is plausible and most acceptable to a couple of hundred million Americans who claim Christian, Jewish, and Islamic belief systems."

No George. Most people of religious faith do not believe that natural disasters are Gods punishment to America for not supporting Republican economic screed.


D. King

"I never said you specifically believed that, only that you said that it is within faith dictum's of 200 million Americans to believe their God is capable of controlling nature as described by Michelle Bachmann to exert Godly influence on earthly events."

Yeah George, we all know it's man's burning of coal and the associated CO2 that creates hurricanes,natural disasters...ect, and the people that don't believe that are racists. Hahahahaha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkZ7VFeZZ84

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Kh7nLplWo

RL Crabb

Okay, George. I'll revise that from 'secret' agendas to 'overt' agendas. And maybe you don't believe that the fundamentalists would like to re-make America, but there are more than a few who say it all the time on TV, like Haggee and Robertson.

George Rebane

BobRL, of course the "fundamentalists would like to re-make America"; even the lamestream majority of Christians harbor such likes (as do our Muslims). But we're talking about agendas, and agendas exist only to the extent they are supported by achievable plans. Christians, fundamental or not, don't even have a plan to make a plan to re-make America. Rejoice, you have nothing to worry about, but I do.

D. King

Here is more crazy stuff God can't do but man can!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLxicwiBQ7Q

RL Crabb

Don't think I don't understand the persecution of Christians. It pisses me off when I see a nativity scene being banned or a cross removed from a hill on government property. Those things are part of our culture and history, and if there's one thing I can't stand, it's rewriting history. My concern is I don't want Christians doing the same with me. The balancing act, you know?

Todd Juvinall

George, the folks who are afraid of Christians influencing the country and its laws are the same ones who have no problem with non Christians telling them what to do with the thousands of laws they pass every year. I simply don't understand how a person of intelligence keeps that straight. (the dastardly Christians, with their secret plans, they might pray for something good, oh my).

PaulE is uses his "I never said" tactic on just about everyone and we are all on to him. He thinks he can attack and then claim innocence when confronted. That is the left's tactic in debate and we see it here and on TV. They must be reading John Kerry's bio. It is also apparent that liberals have no concept of humor from a Bachmann or Reagan unless it is sprinkled with F bombs and sex. Watching the Bachmann statement one can see her smile, hear the tone and listen to the people chuckle. They got her humor but the left won't even acknowledge. I guess when Obama said there were 57 states and he was a coke snorter, the left just passed that one by, claiming it was humor.

Larry Wirth

Hate to rain on everyone's parade, so to speak, but I'm guessing that Irene saved more lives than it took by removing drunks, illegal aliens and assorted thugs from the streets for a few days.

Damage, serious enough, can be put into perspective by observing that the total won't add up to a single day's borrowing by the Feds.

Certainly, Michelle Bachmann was joking, but it doesn't mean it was a particularly smart thing to do.

George Rebane

To put a finer point on LarryW's life saving remark, consider the lives saved in traffic deaths alone which consume about 40K a year in the US. This computes to about 110 per day. Irene's flooded highways encompass about a fourth of our population of over 300 million giving the share of lives saved per day from cancelled highway miles to somewhere around 27 per day. With the current death toll at 40, Irene's 'flood days' have saved about 50 to 100 lives.

The point here is that quoting a naked death toll attributed to Irene as part of its cost is simplicity in itself. There's always more going on out there.

RL Crabb

Larry, you're not raining on my parade, but I don't think your argument holds water. There's a flood of evidence all over the east coast.

George Rebane

Pray tell Bob, what are LarryW's leaky arguments?

Douglas Keachie

"BobRL, of course the "fundamentalists would like to re-make America"; even the lamestream majority of Christians harbor such likes (as do our Muslims). But we're talking about agendas, and agendas exist only to the extent they are supported by achievable plans. Christians, fundamental or not, don't even have a plan to make a plan to re-make America. Rejoice, you have nothing to worry about, but I do."

You do not called Gingrich's call during the 1990's to have Fundys run for every office possible such a plan? Have we not seen this behavior in this county?

On the other hand, you may be correct about some Muslims, if the following is to believed. Please note, I said "some," not "all."

http://www.hudson-ny.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones

I need to research this organization and what they are reporting in more detail. PS I would NEVER trivialize Momma Nature, and 40 dead people agree with me. How about our NEXT big forest fire?

RL Crabb

You're muddying the waters with a deluge of abstract numbers. Living in a floodplain, as I do, I don't want my information canal trickling down. I want all the facts as soon as I can get them, to know weather or not I need to sandbag my position or just sit back and wait for the clouds to part.

Some time after the Great Flood of New Year's Eve, 2005, a FEMA rep showed up at my door and asked if I needed any help. We didn't, but I thought it was nice of them to ask.

Greg Goodknight

While the absolute numbers of deaths with or without Irene may or may not be comparable, they are almost certainly different people.

It might not be terribly interesting to actuaries but the difference makes a world of difference to the victims and their families.

Dixon Cruickshank

Way over hyped - BTW one of the deaths was in Fla - it didn't come anywhere near here. ppssshhh - very few people really leave, just the very flood prone areas.

I'm am a fisherman and therefore hang out on sites related - nobody could find a sea bouy recording Hurricane Force winds off NC, let alone on land.

So SteveE is wasn't a 2 and it really wasn't even a 1 at that time.

Storm surge up in the bays was a worry but didn't materialize either. As stated by George it was a rain event and Vermont actually got hit the worest because of rain on saterated soil - but that rain had already come from the west to saturate it.

George's accessment holds water - pun inteneded

Douglas Keachie

God! For once Greg and I agree.

"Number of accidents are statistically few,
But brother who's counting, when one of them you.
Call for the Ski Patrol"

~Bob Gibson~

The difference between the two is that safer systems of transportation could have been adopted decades ago, and the car companies fought every improvement tooth and nail, in the halls of Congress and on the airwaves and print media.

Would you even consider driving in a car with no seat belts, and no air bags, and no Volvo Rambler unibody crumple style construction?

Extreme climate will result in totally new engineering specs for bridges, roads, and drains. And more expensive ones too. Vermont is wiped out, and I suppose this will be another, no new money from taxes for the RepubaTeaPatriots, led by Michelle "no buckets for you, cuz that's what God sez," Bachman.

Ben Emery

Since everybody is on preventing deaths around the country lets outlaw tobacco products, since everybody is so concerned about human life on RR. Now guys don't start throwing around it is everybody individual choice since you don't hold to that position when it comes to the drunks or undocumented/ illegal immigrants as Mr Wirth so callously stated "I'm guessing that Irene saved more lives than it took by removing drunks, illegal aliens and assorted thugs from the streets for a few days"

http://www.drugabuse.gov/infofacts/tobacco.html
"According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), cigarette smoking results in more than 443,000 premature deaths in the United States each year—about 1 in every 5 U.S. deaths2—and an additional 8.6 million people suffer with a serious illness caused by smoking.3 Thus, for every one person who dies from smoking, 20 more suffer from at least one serious tobacco-related illness."

Mikey McD

We all die from something (not even the FDA can save us!).

Todd Juvinall

No one gets out of here alive.

Ben Emery

Mikey and Todd,
We agree.

Steve Enos

Sorry Dixon, but you are very wrong.

Irene was a Cat 2 hurricane when it made U.S. landfall.

Irene tracked just north of Hispaniola as an intensifying Category 1 hurricane, skirting the coast with heavy precipitation and strong winds that killed several people. After crossing the Turks and Caicos Islands, the hurricane quickly strengthened into a Category 3 major hurricane while passing through The Bahamas, leaving behind a trail of extensive structural damage in its wake.

Curving toward the north, Irene skirted past Florida with its outer bands producing tropical-storm-force winds. It made landfall over Eastern North Carolina's Outer Banks on the morning of August 27 and moved along southeastern Virginia, affecting the Hampton Roads region.

After briefly reemerging over water, Irene made second US landfall near Little Egg Inlet in New Jersey during the morning of August 28, becoming the first hurricane to make landfall in the state since 1903.

Irene was downgraded to a tropical storm as it made its third U.S. landfall in the Coney Island area of Brooklyn, New York, at approximately 9:00 a.m on August 28.

Larry Wirth

BenE, victims are victims no matter what kills them. I wasn't being "callus'" merely pointing out a fact.

George Rebane

According to the National Hurricane Center - http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2011/august/301205/hurricane-irene

Todd Juvinall

We all qualify to be rated as good a weatherman as those we watch on the tube. That is why AGW is a crock.

Paul Emery

This is a pretty silly conversation. We should be thankful the storm was tempered. Any suggestion the storm was hyped for political reasons reveals how much time we have on our hands for trivial dribble.

George Rebane

The tragedy of the commons - alive and well.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/08/30/irene-highlights-contradiction-in-americans-expectations-of-government/

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