« When free speech goes … | Main | AtPac Lawsuit – still seeking closure »

03 September 2011

Comments

Todd Juvinall

When I started CABPRO back in 1993 we became part of a movement to defeat these kinds of things. We fought the Feds plan to have Heritage Forests all over the country. (I testified). We fought the Trails program to connect non motorized trails across America (regardless of who owned the land), we fought the Wilderness designations and Wild and Scenic. We sent opposition letters to the Prez about locking up the Staircase Escalante and many others. We couldn't keep up. It turns out our own government using our tax money was feeding a endless supply of our dough to these eco groups. Well, now we know why don't we? Anyway, Judi and ROAR, go get them.

RL Crabb

I'm offering a two-for-one deal on the FOILSAFE tinfoil skull caps this weekend AND a free POD PEOPLE EATER...slices, dices, pulverizes those annoying pods in your backyard before they can steal your soul. Order in the next thirty seconds and I'll throw in an Illuminati decoder ring...

Todd Juvinall

What a great country. Crabb should be at Maxine Water rallies with his trinkets.

Mike Thornton

"FoilSafe", now that is really funny!
I see a great cartoon coming out of this!!

Bob Hobert

RL, I will pay $5 just for the illuminati decoder ring. An actual global government might work - if we could just find a suitable nation-state government that has worked over time. Ours was the latest, and last? chance.

Todd Juvinall

Yeah, me too. I want a decoder ring and a watch with a two way radio like Dick Tracy had. Oh goodie! The tin foil hat though should be painted black so itt can absorb the sun's rays and keep the brain warm.

D. King

"Order in the next thirty seconds and I'll throw in an Illuminati decoder ring..."

What, no dog whistles Bob?
You’re well aware of our preferred form of communication.

RL Crabb

The problem is that the only ones who can hear it are the left.

D. King

LOL!

RL Crabb

And don't think that I'm not on to THE GREAT RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY! I saw Dick Cheney in the DARTH VADER outfit on Jay Leno. CHENEY thinks that if he makes a joke out of his ALTER EGO that people will laugh it off, not knowing that he REALLY IS DARTH VADER and he he serves THE CORPORATE EMPIRE. You need more PROOF? Twentieth Century Fox made the STAR WARS movies and is controlled by RUPERT MURDOCH. LOOK OUT, PEOPLE! They're turning our MINDS into MUSH!!!

And by using CAPS on certain KEY WORDS you can see that I truly AM a CONSPIRACY NUT and a danger to THE COMMUNITY. Some people think so.

RL Crabb

P.S. -It's a WELL-DOCUMENTED FACT that DICK CHENEY has NO PULSE!

D. King

We should really keep this under our aluminum hats, but it’s space rays causing Global Climate Change.

REALLY!

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/24/breaking-news-cern-experiment-confirms-cosmic-rays-influence-climate-change/

Exit question: What will these results do to the progressive savants’ Agenda 21 plans?

Paul Emery

They charged Cheney's battery for one last go round in the media tents. That should about do it for him. Just think, we were a strategic pretzel away from him being president.

George Rebane

Sounds like it's really chuckle up time.

http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/

stevenfrisch

At the risk of providing an unexplained link, I will let this one do the analysis for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7-K6-oNFs8

Paul Emery

So many conspiracy's, so little time. We went from Islamic mobs to UN Commie takeovers in less than a week.

Paul Emery

Oh of course it's all led by the secret ones in command that installed Diaz as our clerk recorder to begin the software takeover of our election system. Stay tuned for more

George Rebane

I think you meant 'conspiracies' PaulE, and the point that the liberals are uniformly missing is that there have been NO conspiracies reported on these pages. In fact, the point has been made exactly in the opposite sense - it is all out in the open. However, there seems to be a cohort with a response here that does have a common purpose, which seems to avoid any discussion of UN's Agenda 21 through ridicule of those who bring up the subject. What is there to fear?

RL Crabb

How about fear itself?

Todd Juvinall

What is it we have heard from the left over the years about conspiracies? Hmmm. When discussing their paranoia about the Darth Vaders, don't they always tell us where there is smoke there is fire, or there is always a little bit of truth in every myth? Yep, that would be the left. We are behind every coup, every assassination of some bad guy, installing clandestinely every new leader (Iran, Seychelles) and work in conjunction with other corporatists only interested in profit. Yep, the tin foil hat business should make Crabb rich. (Where are the Emery'sand where is their order?) If only the left could get our money and redistribute.

On a serious note, Agenda 21 is one part of the puzzle by the eco corporatists to return the planet to pre human condition. I just wonder who will write it down when humans are all gone. And who will read it!

RL Crabb

George has already answered that question. It will be our robot/computer masters, i.e. the Singularity. And I don't mean to be mean, George. I've already seen all this stuff courtesy of the late Drew Bedwell, who used to demonstrate it at local schools in an effort to de-program the youth of Nevada County.

And the Todd-bot is right, there is always some element of truth in conspiracies, be it Steve Frisch's Ecotopia or the Great Right Wing Version. More than one organized effort, it is more of a collective unconscious. I remember as a teenager being amazed that things that popped into my head in pop culture would show up in England, or LA or SF. Some-how, without an internet to link us, we were all thinking the same things.

stevenfrisch

Wow, Bob, a literary reference to Ernest Callenbach.

Seriously, I have never been much of a conspiracy guy. I think the human condition acts against both the idea of and the effectiveness of conspiracy--people are too self centered, too vain, too proud, and too individually power hungry to make good conspiracy theorists. I think its much more likely that people work in concert for things that they share values with others on and it sometimes looks like a conspiracy.

So I would say to George, yes there is an Agenda 21, no one I know even seriously thinks about it or coordinates any activity based on Agenda 21, and they pursue things that can appear the same because they sincerely believe in it and it fits their values.

Just like the Tea Party.......right?

Todd Juvinall

Todd-bot? Now that is funny. Crabb, are you sure you were not in contact with those people in the UK because the tin foil worked? LOL.

Regarding conspiracies. King George was pissed because those pesky people across the lake were in a conspiracy. Guess he forgot his tinfoil hat.

stevenfrisch

Todd, I am sure I can find instructions for inserting tin foil in a 21st century tricorne hat if you need them.

D. King

George,

They are dying on the vine!

http://motls.blogspot.com/2011/09/james-hansen-plans-to-arrest-hillary.html

George Rebane

Documents like these of UN working groups seem to be silly in their pronouncements because there is an implied authority needed to implement all of these policies. But none is directly named or called for. I wonder why they are wasting their time.

http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N11/278/80/PDF/N1127880.pdf?OpenElement

D. King

Good question.

D. King

After all George, with one small sea-change in how energy is produced the whole carbon tax funding scheme crumbles and with that, folds the rest of their agenda. CAGW is all but dead. What’s left?
Answer: The 2012 elections!

Russ Steele

Steven F,

Here are some sincere beliefs by some like minded people.

A new poll of Republican voters in the early primary state of South Carolina suggests the question of Barack Obama’s eligibility is no fringe issue, as 65 percent of those polled question whether the current occupant of the Oval Office was even born in the U.S.

The automated telephone survey of 750 usual South Carolina Republican primary voters was conducted by the Democratic polling company, Public Policy Polling, from Aug. 25-28.

According to PPP’s published results, when asked, “Do you think Barack Obama was born in the United States?” 44 percent answered “no” and an additional 21 percent answered “unsure” – a total of 65 percent questioning his birthplace – leaving only 35 percent who answered definitively “yes.”

stevenfrisch

Gosh Russ, I never said that people who believe that President Obama is an alien are a conspiracy, only that they are breathtakingly stupid. Most conspiracies break upon the shoals of one simple fact: most people can't keep a secret thus the bigger the group necessary to keep the secret the less likely a conspiracy exists. .

George Rebane

SteveF, I can't find anyone accusing you of calling the so-called 'birthers' a conspiracy. Did I miss a turn in the dialogue, or are you pre-defending a hill about to be attacked?

Paul Emery

George

I find the topic of Agenda 21 not of interest to me. I'll leave it in your clubhouse to spat about.

I'm glad to hear that you don't consider this a conspiracy. What would you prefer to describe it's function in making the UN the world government?

"Agenda 21 is the UN’s comprehensive program to establish global governance in some TBD form whose common denominator is that the UN will evolve into the earth’s governing unit."

George Rebane

PaulE, I take it for just what it is advertized. It is an open program with regular action items to be executed trans-nationally that is designed to put in place global functions of society (e.g. managing the environment, resources, redistribution, ...) that transcend and displace the functions currently performed by sovereign nation-states. It is not the only one being promoted. George Soros' enterprises include others, and so do unions working toward a workers' internationale as openly discussed by labor luminaries such as Andy Stern and Richard Trumka.

These people and their fellows sincerely believe that the current global structure of societies is outdated, an 'ancient relic', and cause of so many of the world's problems. The future for them is global political unification.

Any hint of conspiracy is just in their modus operandi that proceeds with the firm conviction that the individual steps taken are "not of interest" to most people; much in the same way that the quite open and visible steps taken by the Nazis for total control in the 1930s were of little interest to most Germans. It is proceeding bit by piece, and the keystone (again openly stated by the progressive internationalists) in the arch of independent states is America. That must fall if these goals are to be achieved.

And you're right, there are much more interesting things to do than to examine this arcane process, no matter how visible.

stevenfrisch

Russ has been pretty clear in previous posts that he feels that the Obama birth certificate issue is not over, even posting how some think it may have been doctored, and I have posted in the past that I think this is silly. I am assuming that is one reason Russ posted this as an example of 'like minded' people coming to conclusions that not everyone may agree are correct and some call a conspiracy. I was merely pointing out that I agree with Russ, that it is not a conspiracy. I'm not 'defending a hill' any more than Russ is by responding with this example. I think he assumes I will call it a conspiracy when none dare call it conspiracy.

Steve Frisch

See now there you go again George, comparing individual actions that might happen to be consistent with goals also expressed within Agenda 21, with Nazism. How do you expect people who may be engaged in those actions to take that comparison? It's no different than comparing corporatist governance to Nazism, which many here respond quite negatively too. Clearly the goose and gander are not given the same consideration.

George Rebane

Actually SteveF, the only thing that I am comparing is the gradualism and openness of the current Agenda 21 process and the openness with which the Nazis accreted power - a well known historical sequence.

With regard to what may be the impact on the welfare of Man from a global government to how the accomplished power of the Nazis affected the welfare of the German people and those they conquered, that is a totally separate (semantically orthogonal) topic and discussion. Please do not succumb to such politically correct confusions in these comment streams.

On Ruminations we reject the hip-level 'one view' characterizations of any totalitarian regime - be it Stalin's communism, Hitler's Nazism, or Mao's communism - and will not reject the separate discussions of their other several attributes because their prime attributes were evil. The left has never eschewed discussion of Stalin's infrastructure projects or Mao's agricultural reforms per se when comparing them with such projects in other countries - even though they cost multiple times the lives and lasted many times as long as Adolph's rampage.

It seems that only Hitler's Nazism is the only one-dimensional atrocity that has afflicted mankind. So please get used to our being able to discuss Nazism's rise to power in the same breath as Agenda 21's progress. And indeed, there I go again.

Keachie

I have my orange hardhat covered with aluminum foil, double layered with 1/2 airgap, with a bit of extra for the brim.

I don't think it stops alien thoughtwaves, or pod people thoughtwaves, or even Teeper Creature brainfarts, but it does a wonderful job of keeping the inside of the helmet much cooler in the sun.

D. King

Agenda 21?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/update-gibson-guitar-ceo-says-feds-told-him-to-outsource-labor-to-madagascar/

D. King

Here is the Youtube Beck interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMaUdwlVNfA

stevenfrisch

[gratuitous ad hominem crap deleted]

Paul Emery

So George was NH 2020 part of the UN’s comprehensive program to establish global governance? And when you say that plan is "overtly, and yet covertly, being implemented by thousands of feel-good consensus preliminaries promoted at local levels" why isn't that considered a conspiracy since it's being promoted through deception. Or is what you're saying is that it doesn't need to be deceptive because no one will pay attention except of course for those in your tent.

You are talking about the ultimate destruction of our sovereignty through UN promoted programs correct?


Def Conspiracy

1.
the act of conspiring.
2.
an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3.
a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4.
Law . an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5.
any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

George Rebane

PaulE, thanks for your resurged interest. I think I've made it pretty clear that there is no deception going on; and yes, disinterest is all that is needed for globalist aims to make progress.

Your definitions for conspiracy are faulty (quite a common occurrence in modern lexicography). Def #5 is closest, but lacks the required element of secrecy or covertness, else a "concurrence of action" is just 'co-operation'. Conspiracies may be lawful or unlawful. Pray, in the current context, what is the purpose of examining the meaning of conspiracy?

Dixon Cruickshank

Bean by bean - bit by bit

Paul Emery

And NH 2020? Was that part of this effort? I remember interviewing some anti NH 2020 types that had were eye witnesses to UN Black Helicopters stationed above Lake Spaulding that were sent to set up a hidden UN base to enforce regulations after passage. I don't recall the names but they were Drew Bedwell supporters. I'm not making this up.

I got the definition from the on line dictionary http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy

RL Crabb

I'll back up Paul on the black helicopter story. I heard it too. But here's another twist to that era of confusion,misinformation and ugliness. One source has told me that one of the first proponents of NH2020 was none other than Russ Steele. Is that true, Russ?

stevenfrisch

It is indeed true that Russ was one of the early supporters of NH 2020. But he saw an opportunity to leverage a science based process to identify resources and plan to reduce the future cost of development for political gain and flipped, helping to lead the opposition. Some things never change.

Todd Juvinall

But PaulE, you have stated in these threads you believe there was a shooter on the grassy knoll and a conspiracy to kill Kennedy if I am recalling correctly. Why is your conspiracy any different then the black helicopters?

Regarding NH2020. I was not involved in its defeat to the degree Drew and others were but from my interviews with them then I recall their defense of private property rights and other constitutional issues were the motivation. There were many of the NO people who had been screwed over by overbearing government. That always makes for a lot of new candidates for office. Besides Paul, the YES people were booted by the people in elections for goodness sakes. Isn't that your favorite thing, elections?

In my view the NH2020 supporters were trying to fill in the blanks of their losses in the General Plan and zoning ordinance updates of the late 90's. I was there at all the hearings and they were as adamant about their hate for the zoning as the NO people were in opposition. Drew and Robin kicked leftwing ass and you simply can't handle it.

Paul Emery

I'm not specific about the"grassy knoll" theory. I believe that the conclusion of the Warren Commission that Oswald acted alone was not very plausible.

It was an anomaly that Izzy Martin became Supervisor in the highly Conservative 4th district so that change was predictable. District 3 has since switched back with Terry Lamphier defeating John Spencer last year.

George Rebane

"Black helicopters"!? is that some lame (but could be successful) attempt to derail a discussion of UN's Agenda 21 to which America's presidents signed on to with great ceremony, not once (Clinton), but twice (Bush2)? It seems that we're all afraid of Agenda 21 - the left, that its open and broadened discussion will hinder its fulfillment; the right, that its quiet advance will continue to damage the country and take us beyond another tipping point.

Paul Emery

I was just putting some local historical perspective to the story that just a few years ago the theory that the UN was behind NH2020 was an active dialog in local elections. The Black Helicopters were cited often by Bedwell supporters as evidence that the UN was moving in and creating a secret base. Seems relevant to the topic.

George, was NH2020 par of the UN plan?

RL Crabb

There were full page ads in The Union connecting NH2020 to Agenda 21. Like I said, Drew used to do presentations on the subject. I mentioned it in more than a few cartoons from that period. It is relevant to the conversation you've provoked here, George.

Todd Juvinall

I never heard of the black copters during that time so please enlighten me with some links and facts. Paul believes in a conspiracy regarding Kennedy's assassination so in his view he is not to be believed because he is a paranoid I suppose (using his logic). maybe there was a black helicopter with riflemen in 63'.

I am a bit confused though by the left and this Agenda 21 issue. The Agenda was voted on and passed by the UN apparently and then nations are adopting it through their laws and treaties. That is a fact. It is the purpose of the Agenda 21 to implement its provisions worldwide so why would the left claim anyone believing it would be nutty? I have seen the UN Biosphere and World Heritage sites pop up all over America and those sites are now declared to be a place the world will protect (unconstitutional in my opinion). That is just a couple of things. There are many more. So, I would assume someone like PaulE who believes ina conspiracy regarding Kennedy would be more logical on a set of laws and treaties about Agenda 21.

Also, in another sense, how does a policy which may not be real popular except with the politicians get implemented? Incrementally. I saw that with smoking cigarettes and other tobacco products. First it was disallowed in government buildings, then public spaces (malls, restaurants (which used to have smoking and no smoking sections), then all public spaces, businesses and bars, then you had to be 10 feet from the entrance then 25, now parks and other outdoor space. While all the politicians needed to do was ban the product. Oh, I forgot apartment complexes with a individual apartment now.

Anyway, NH2020 was a fill in the b blanks the lefty eco's couldn't get under the GP and zoning on the late 90's. Paul and Crabb, isn't that right?

Todd Juvinall

regarding Izzy Martins victory. PaulE, we all were in awe she pulled it off. It was amazing and even though I don't agree with her politics she did a very tough thing, win a spot with a write in campaign. Her loss to Robin was simple. Izzy was exposed for the fibs she used to get the votes regarding business support and many other things (property rights etc.). Once the people knew the truth they booted her. It has nothing to do with conservative voter majority and isn't it you that cries about the office being a non-partisan one? Grass Valley is still a small majority R I think so in your view, Spencer should have prevailed.

Mike Thornton

Drew and the anti-NH2020 crowd were famous for their efforts to connect it to UN "Black Helicopters" and global, socialist/communist domination.
Anybody here, who was present at the time and tries to deny it now is simply not telling the truth, period!

Todd Juvinall

Give us some links then. Quotes, news stories? Let us see you allegations proved. My guess is just as KVMR had a bunch of leftwinuts spouting their corporation conspiracies and George Bush/Dick Cheney conspiracies you may have confused yourselves with others.

Paul Emery


Todd

Proving something to you is not very important to me. There are readers of this blog that remember quite well and are laughing at you right now. And Todd, I take it you accept th findings of the Warren Commission as conclusive, no questions to be asked.

Yes, let's allow smoking everywhere again. Banning smoking in public places was another commie plot to take over our freedom to kill ourselves and those around us. Let's put lead back in gasoline while we're at it and reintroduce asbestos as a building material.

George Rebane

NH2020 was before we arrived here in 2002. But I knew Drew very well (I was his first NC Planning Commissioner before moving out of Dist #3) and we talked about NH2020. The subject of 'black helicopters' never came up, and in my experience its connection to Agenda 21 was brought up here by PaulE.

The black helicopter paradigm is almost always used to discredit whatever topic it is connected to, so that is the way that I'm treating the notion here.

ToddJ's 944am does give the gist of how the globalists do use gradualism to corral, constrain, and criminalize what yesterday were civil behaviors. Each new sanction has always started with the disbelief and ridicule of its ultimate condition of enforcement.

I do hope that someone does connect the alleged black helicopter to NH2020 dots; because if those connections were made, then they would be a matter of public record. Otherwise, the accusations are just more of the political bullshit and hearsay.

George Rebane

PaulE, in your 1031am, is the trivializing you imply with smoking and leaded gasoline intended as a blanket whitewash of government regs and laws that have significantly diminished our liberties? Or do you even believe that there has been a significant rollback of liberties?

Apropos to all this, the map I have included in this piece is part of a serious standing proposal.

RL Crabb

True, George, all the black helicopter base buzz I heard was hearsay, stuff people would talk about at the endless procession of public meetings. I never would have mentioned it if not for Paul. The fact that we both heard the same scenario independently at least proves that it happened. Unless you think we are both lying.

And it is a distraction from the Big Picture. I would ask if you believe all the citizens who support the land trust are tied into the agenda? Is preserving open space a bad thing? How is the UN going to enforce the agenda? Send in the blue helmets?

Paul Emery

If indeed you consider losing the right to smoke in a restaurant diminishing liberties than yes. I consider the freedom not to be exposed to tobacco smoke an enhancement to liberties.

Government regs have to be considered individually so I can't make a blanket statement that my liberties have been bridged. Your outlook is too simplistic to have any practical value. As you know, I oppose some regulations and oppose others and I'm sure you do as well so the difference between us has to do with individual situations.

George, I knew Drew Bedwell rather well . He actually personally apologized to me for some of the opinions and actions of his campaigners and that included Black Helicopters and UN bases in the Sierras.

Mike Thornton

[deleted again for gratuitous use of "regressives". Edited version with that crap removed is welcome.]

George Rebane

Bob, "... is preserving open space a bad thing?" It is tautological questions like that which shut off discussion. If you had rephrased it, 'Is preserving open space according to recommended Agenda 21 prescriptions - see map - a bad thing?', then we could go forward in a serious manner (my answer would be a considered YES). But putting forth these 'bookend' ripostes takes us nowhere, and only reinforces the proposition that the left wants to avoid any discussion of the current initiatives toward globalism, and what restrictions such initiatives place on individuals in different countries.

Nevertheless, I do believe that a thinking reader, who seeks resolution of the points here raised, will benefit from reading such a comment stream, no matter how rich and/or perverse may be its apologetics. Sally forth!

RL Crabb

I'll agree that the preservation movement is overzealous in their efforts to save the planet, but I don't believe that the UN is capable of realizing any of their perceived goals. The current situation in the European Union will have nations skittish about giving up their sovereignty for decades to come.

Mike Thornton

Would that be as compared to gratuitous use of: "liberals", "communists", "socialists", "leftists" and "ragheads", George?
I'm just trying to get a handle on the actual rules.....

Mike Thornton

So let me try it this way, so as not to offend anybody's tender sensibilities.

When a group of people use inflammatory (and false) conspiracy theories in order to achieve a political objective and then later on, down the road, try to pretend that they didn't do that, they are being dishonest and hypocritical, period.
And we all know, who does this over and over and over!

Paul Emery

George

Can you refresh me as to why Mikes use of "Regressives" is unacceptable but Todds use of "violent psychopath wingnuts" is acceptable?

George Rebane

MikeT re your 1131am - No, as I have explained in detail before, the use of "liberals", "communists", "socialists", "leftists" (add 'progressives') is correct in so far as they are commonly known, defined, and accepted labels for people exhibiting/promoting aspects of known ideologies. There is no pejorative connected to the use of the label since there are millions in the world who proudly announce themselves as such.

'Raghead' is a purposely pejorative label which I use in an always qualified manner that labels an individual whom I have defined in an essay (search 'raghead') in these pages. Your adjoining raghead to the previous list indicates to me a more fundamental reason why you seem to have trouble with the notions discussed in these pages. Or, perhaps, you just throw it in as a red herring when your other arguments have trouble holding their own.

And finally, re your 1142am - to the extent that you believe your assessment there to be true, I can state unambiguously that your anchor chain is way too short to provide you any comfort in these deep harbors.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE is a good example of why the press is so looked down upon. Heck his standing is lower than mine when I was a politician 20 years ago for goodness sakes. MikeT also proves again why KVMR is known as the leftwing radio station, full of conspiracies about conservatives, corporations and employers. Paul can't answer questions and provide proof of his conspiracy exclamations and claims such as black helicopters because he can't. Lazy? He knows it is false and was simply hearsay back then. I heard a lot of hearsay from the left when they were losing the argument they would always create straw men or claim their opposition was extremists. I have heard the leftwing eco's spew articles that each time they were fighting to "save" something it was because it was the "last pristine" of whatever. No, Paul and MikeT are prime examples of people who took their great responsibility to tell the truth and threw it out the door as "journalists". I am not a journalist, never claimed to be one but I have opinions and apparently those stick in PaulE and MikeT's craw. Regarding Agenda 21. If a country signs a treaty to implement such a thing, tell us PaulE, how does it get implemented? It is the law of the land so does it stand to reason the states would have to instruct their numerous jurisdictions, like cities, counties and special districts, to alter their General Plans to include the provisions? I say yes, we saw it here many times. Right now NID is having to deal with their land use policies and their water rights being "negotiated" by eco groups. I would say the Agenda 21 is the mechanism of incrementalism to achieve a boiled frog. But, hey, PaulE is hung up and can't proceed because of some statement made many days ago.

Oh and for the dense libs here, my smoking example had nothing to do with the act of smoking. It was an example of the boiling frog. I have been shaking my head that "journalists" can be so slow.

George Rebane

PaulE, not sure who ToddJ referred to as "violent psychopath wingnuts", but I'm sure it was not me. Those so referenced and/or offended are welcome to cease communications with ToddJ. BTW, I don't countenance his calling other RR commenters those names, and will do my best to enforce that. However, identifying a third party class of people with such labels does not offend my "tender sensibilities", even though a perhaps more suitable label could have served.

MikeT's limited knowledge of how ideological labels apply has caused him to repeatedly be confused as explained in my 1209am. His attempt to find solace and retribution in labeling me and mine as a 'regressive' will no longer fly (although, for historical purposes, and to correctly paint his character, I have left intact his earlier uses of the term).

Paul Emery

And George, how does "violent psychopath leftwingnuts" get it's acceptability by your standards?

Mike Thornton

I'm comfortable with the length of my chain, George.
And I certainly don't suffer from "Chain Envy", here!

Look it's really clear what the deal is and I've explained to you the definition and use of the term "regressive" on more than one occasion. You just don't like it.
I believe the reason you don't like it, is because it is actually a perfect description of the philosophy it describes.

You're clearly entitled to your opinion and you do have control over the "delete" button. But once again, you consistently sanction abusive and even threatening comments on RR, when they are used against people you don't agree with. So your protestations are nothing more than trying to gussy up biased censorship on your part. That makes me wonder, whose really got a little "chain length inferiority complex" going on.....

Todd Juvinall

George, the term that upsets PaulE so much that he keeps bringing it up was explained by me to reference Stalin etal. For some reason he took it personally and I have told him numerous times what it meant yet he for some reason doesn't believe me. Nothing new there.

Steve Frisch

I was here for NH 2020. There were repeated references in both public meetings, and in print, including handbills distributed by Protect Your Property Rights, to black helicopters, Agenda 21, and the United Nations threat to 'American sovereignty.

RL remembers it, Paul remembers it, I remember it.

Anyone who was here, and aware, that does not acknowledge this is flat out lying.

Mike Thornton

OMG, look out, Frisch told the truth. I'm sure someone will now be offended....

Steve Frisch

By the way, if you open and read this paper by Patrick Hurley you will see that there are references to Agenda 21, and repeated references to a 'global conspiracy', which is just nonsense.

The paper clearly shows how the right wing war on science can be leveraged to shift political power in rural communities, and how propaganda, like George is spreading, including with links to web sites equating Agenda 21 to fascism, Are Threat to civil democracy.

http://geography.uoregon.edu/walker/Hurley%20Walker%202004%20Whose%20vision.pdf

Steve Frisch

By the way, I was also at the community meeting re:NH 2020 that was interrupted by a bomb threat. That was a prime example of how the right wing respected the public process.

Steve Frisch

Guess Mike remembers it too! We must all be lying.

Paul Emery

George

This would not have come up if you didn't try to justify using your prerogative to edit Mike. Trying to explain your reasons certainly opens up the discussion we are in right now.


Todd

Here is your original quote.


"It is fascinating to me the liberals always defend Islam and its intent and trash Christianity. Maybe the leftwingnuts really are supporting Islam because they are the violent psychopaths in our culture and Islam better reflects them. Christianity, Jesus forward, is peaceful and kind. Yep, maybe that is it. Lefty philosophy is truly a violent one.

Keep in mind Todds defination of a lefty includes everyone to the left of Romney and he might even be included. So he's accusing that entire group of being violent. There is nowhere until later challenged that Mao or Stalin are mentioned.


What does that have to do with Stalin or Mao? You made that up later. You know very well who that characterization was meant to reflect on and you're only lying to yourself to say otherwise. Consistently you dedicated "leftwingnut" to specific local individuals and organizations. Besides, the issues we were talking about was concerning contemporary Islam and Stalin and Mao have, of course long been recycled. Pretty goofy explanation even by your standards Todd.

As to documentation of the Black Helicopter bases I have the best documentation available to me, my personal experiences. Mike T and Crabb also share the same story through different encounters. Perhaps you think we all got together and decided to make it up? Gee, that would be a conspiracy for sure!

I'm sure other readers recall the same history though I doubt any from your side would speak out. I maybe suprised though.

Also Todd, what I write here is my personal opinion and that is an entirely different perspective and process than what I include in the evening news (6PM KVMR 89.5 FM) I welcome you to listen and feel free to comment on my integrity as a Newsman.

Mike Thornton

Of course I remember it, Steve!

That's why I say that, when (whatever you want to call them)start denying the stuff they were actively promoting in the past it damages their credibility in an irreparable manner.

However, we know that (whatever you want to call them)operate on the 1984 model.
When something you said or did in the past becomes problematic, you simply rewrite the history to fit the current narrative.
It's one of the reasons they attack anyone who points out the inconsistencies.....

D. King

I think your shared experience may have been from here in 2003.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2003/08/29

Another crop circle researcher, Andy Buckley, told Linda he saw a mist-like vapor underneath two black helicopters flying over a field, where subsequently a crop formation occurred. While the connection between the helicopters and the formations is uncertain, Howe suggested the Apaches may have equipment to monitor invisible frequencies that are related to the phenomenon. Much more on this is available in Linda's Earthfiles report.

Steve is correct about them hiding the war on science with the “invisible frequencies” being used!

Paul Emery

Just to assure you we didn't make this up even Jeff Ackerman acknowledged it in 2002.

http://www.theunion.com/article/20020903/OPINION/209030002


"And Drew's black helicopter conspiracy doesn't count as funny. It's been done and it no longer makes me laugh. In fact, it gave me nightmares the other night. They were coming to get me, and I couldn't scream. Black choppers landed on my new roof and guys with ski masks crashed through my new skylight, demanding to see my passport."

D. King

You think that's scary...try this!

Rainbows can now be seen in the water droplets from sprinklers. We need to speak with one voice and tell them… “You won’t get away with it”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8

Todd Juvinall

Thanks PaulE for finding the quote from me. It proves me right and you wrong.

Regarding Frisch's comments. Sorry Steve, we don't believe you. We were there too and you need to g[ve us more than your word. Regarding using anything from Hurley, the guy from Cement Hill above Nevada City (I think he was RQC just like you?). I once had in my hands his handbill he wrote and distributed when all the NH2020 stuff was going on. He and I were on the radio and I had his handbill in front of us. I quoted from his handbill and he called me a liar and said I was making it up. The staff at the station looked at him like he was a nut. He is untrustworthy and by you using him as an example you are showing us how untrustworthy your words are too.

So, it looks like the lefties here are doing their liberal duty and trying to rewrite history again. We are always having to correct your attempts to misinform the people but someone has to do i.

PaulE still thinks his conspiracy belief of the grassy knoll shooter is OK, so hey Paul, we believe that you believe it since you are so adamant.

Regarding truth from MikeT, PaulE and SteveF. Why do you think anyone should believe anything you all say about NH2020 when you were all for it? I gather from reading that you attended meetings for it and perhaps were all members of the RQC and related groups in support of it. Why in your wildest imaginations would you think we would give any credence to your assertions? Amazing arrogance.

Todd Juvinall

Oh and PaulE, if you are two people, you know, a split personality, then yes I can see where you could be a different person at KVMR and here on the blogs. You and Clinton, depends on the definition of "is", right.

I would also say that if you have a group of people that never heard the "black helicopter" straw man then in a logical world wouldn't that carry as much credibility as you three musketeers who claim you heard it second hand? See, just pointing out your bias. Nothing more.

Steve Frisch

I could dig into my archives and pull the flyers that make these outrageous claims, because I have two big boxes full of such nonsense in storage, but what would the point be? People who can deny the experience of their own eyes and ears can just as easily deny the evidence of the printed word, and they do it every day. They are experts at it. This entire web site is based on the selective presentation of information in order to get people to drink, or reinforce the habits of those who drink, the kool aide. Then it is obsfucated by people like D. King who make irrelevant references to unrelated information to divert people's attention from the truth.

I am reminded by a friend who read this string of the day Drew and his merry band of misguided souls showed up to picket my office, and the point that one of the picketers sign actually had a black helicopter on one of the signs.

The tactics being used today, on this blog, and by the Tea Party, and by sympathetic letter writers to The Union, are the same tactics that Patrick Hurley wrote about; the tactics of disresect, lie, innuendo, threat, intimidation and naked back room political dealing. The attempt at a public political lynching of Greg Diaz is a prime example, and why even though I have never met the man, I will defend him.

Those tactics were incredibly destructive to Nevada County, a place that has been my home for 25 years, and have helped create the divisive and vitriolic politics that hold us back to this day. It is why when people mention Nevada County in the wider state, when trying to advance policies that would be beneficial to every resident, like broadband or biomass, people laugh and say, "why would we want to do anything there."

This is likely the origin of the saying, "progress follows the hearse", which is unfortunately probably more true here than in most rural communities.

Paul Emery

I could care less whether you give credence to anything. Arrogance is speaking for a "we" when you're pretty much alone in the jungle pal. Even Ackerman confirms the Drew story.

I'm surprised that someone as distrustful of government as you are accepts the Warren Commission report as the final authority in the JFK assassination.

Todd Juvinall

No, SteveE, you don't have the flyers and if you did you would produce them. I challenge your assertion about if they were produced they would be questioned. Only liberals like you and Hurley do. He denied he wrote his own flyer for goodness sakes. That is what you do. Your tactics are simply old school and the reason your are scared of the Tea Party (all those little gray haired ladies) is because they have your "progressive" phoniness figured out. The also have the leftwing media figured out too. Scares the crap out of liberals to be caught. You are caught.

I the view of myself and many ordinary Nevada County citizens, Drew Bedwell was the epitome of what makes America great. A man rises out of the body of people to right an injustice created by people like Frisch and his ilk. Drew was a true hero, God rest his soul (and his wife) and we need more Drew's and less Frisch's if this country is to survive the liberal onslaught.

Going to wash the SUV gas guzzler. I'll be back.

Todd Juvinall

Paul you just keep digging a bigger hole and you sound like a paranoid man. Just say it Paul, you believe there was a grassy knoll shooter. Come on now, you can do it. Then when you finally tell yourself the truth here, you can read the Agenda 21 documents with an open mind. You are simply in denial.

Steve Frisch

Todd, did you even open the link, you lightweight? It was written by Patrick Hurley, not Jim Hurley. Patrick published his paper in several scholarly reviews. Patrick Hurley was a cultural geographer from the Univerity of Oregon. He did more than 100 interviews while researching his paper, including Drew Bedwell, Barbara Bashell, Robin Sutherland, and Grace Karpa. Try to keep up, OK?

Paul Emery

I read the documents and it was just a rehash of the anti NH 2020 stuff from 2002.

As for the JFK assassination there are only two options here. Whether you believe the Warren Commission report was the final truth in the matter or not. I don't believe it. Do you? Yes or no. The grassy knoll theory also lacks believability to me so there you have it.

Mike Thornton

It's the "1984" model, guys!
History doesn't exist, for no other reason than they say it doesn't.
This is why I argue with Paul E.
He thinks you can actually reason with the (whatever you want to call them)
I say, you can't, because they ruthless and aren't bound by any code of morality.
You know darn, well that you could show them absolute proof and they will simply deny that you showed it to them or say that it's falsified or whatever they need to do.

Steve Frisch

While we are at it Todd, what did you think of the bomb scare at the NH 2020 meeting? Or the fact that one of the leaders of the PYPR group got arrested for taking out a hit on his neighbor over a 6 inch boundary dispute?

And have you figured out the difference between Patrick Hurley and Jim Hurley (no relation) yet?

Same story, even the same people, just a different year!

Paul Emery

Mike

It's probably because I was once a boxer (Golden Gloves 1963-I have pictures) that I appreciate jabbing with Todd. He's the perfect sparring partner. Pretty slow, not too bright and very predictable. He telegraphs his punches and when they land they have no sting. He is durable though and you can't keep him down. He's too busy defending himself however to have any offense.

He once was a contender, kind of a golden boy District 1 Supervisor before being easily dispatched when he ran for Assessor because he needed a job due to his failure as a Real Estate developer when his Glenbrook project was knocked out by the Republican BOS. He tried to comeback a couple of times but never made the top 10 in any rankings so finally he hung it up for good. He took a lot of punches in the early 90's and his memory is not too good nowdays. That was over 20 years ago but he keeps showing up at the gym bragging about his glory days.

Not a bad guy though when you meet him in person. He has been known to share his corn dog at the County Fair with liberals and lefty types. He is seldom seen in public now days, preferring to shadow box in solitude imagining the cheering of adoring crowds as he lands a right... right again, yes right again, his only punch.

Mike Thornton

Primo Carnera.
"The Harder They Fall"

George Rebane

Wow! Great discussion of conspiracies and black helicopters back there in the county's yesteryear. I hope that all of us are astute enough to realize that all of this nonsense has nothing to do with the Agenda 21 piece that caps this comment stream. There I and the cited piece by Judi Caler make it clear that Agenda 21 is NOT a conspiracy.

So, one more time with feeling, Agenda 21 is a UN policy initiative, endorsed by two US presidents, that seeks to lay in place an expanding series of actions by governments which constructively constrain the freedoms of their citizens and evolve their nations toward a new world order hailed publicly by many prominent leftwing public figures. It's all out in the open and already appearing regularly in your local neighborhood. Only a well-fitting sleeping mask and earplugs are required to make the whole thing disappear.

Mike Thornton

There's "Commies" and "Muslims" lurking everywhere.

Boo!

Paul Emery

George

We all went through this already years ago. Is there anything new? I read Ms Calers piece and it was 2002 redo without the helicopters or someone of Drew Bedwells charm and persistence to communicate. Also we don't have NH2020 to beat around. As we all know there's nothing better for religion than a good healthy devil.

George Rebane

So there's the end of it, and my unfortunate point has been more than made. QED

Mike Thornton

Is the point that (whatever you want to call them) are always seeking another trumped up "conspiracy" in order to rally the not too bright?
If it is, then you're right. Your point has been completely proved!

The comments to this entry are closed.

Blog powered by Typepad