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19 October 2011

Comments

Todd Juvinall

You sure it just wasn't the growers market?

Russ Steele

There were more people at the Broadband Rally, than at this rally. Thanks for taking the pictures. We were just wondering what had taken place and visit The Union web page and the usual lefty web and blog pages looking for some insight, and came up empty. You filled the bill nicely. Thanks!

Martin

Stopping at the NC BoA to deposit this evening before coming home we encountered the OWS local band of fleas weakly shouting "Hey Hey Ho Ho This Corporation Has Gotta Go" (repeat), etc. We saw still and video cameras set up at a couple of spots to record the collective marching. The smell of Hemp was in the air. LOL comrades.

Should be interesting when the temperature drops and the rain/snow falls what fleas will be walking in this 'band of comrades.'

Todd Juvinall

Hey hey ho ho, I won't march in the snow!

Ben Emery

George,
Thank you for your cordial and thoughtful opposition piece.

The restoration of the rule of law.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAhHPIuTQ5k&feature=player_embedded

Occupy Nevada County is about solidarity with the bigger metro area's that have major financial districts.

Our government represented the banks and left the people out in the cold, literally, the foreclosure epidemic continues on.

It was marijuana (medicinal of course)not hemp, it should be legalized or decriminalized.

BofA, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Chase should all be broken up into multiple banks. Goldman Sachs should be dissolved.

bill tozer

Thank for Dr. Rebane for capturing the atmosphere of the event. Sounds like it was nice quiet peaceful assembly of people on a lazy Wednesday fall afternoon. I was a bit taken back by the pictures that appear to be devoid of people of color. Yes, some of us enlightened ones see everything through the prism of color, but I will overlook this grievous outrage in a gracious attempt to relate with the common man in Nevada City. All in all, I wish I was there but was too busy stacking my gold coins. Todd, me thinks BofA will remain standing for a day or two after good ole boy Warren Buffet recapitalized the Bank with a few billion. Hmmm, didn't BofA announce it will charge 5 bucks a month to use their debit card shortly after Warren bailed them out? Warren ain't no dummy and he is business to make a profit. But, I will overlook that fault of his as well. Too bad the dearly departed Citizen's Bank could not find a Sugar Daddy like Warren to recapitalize the local bank.. Maybe BofA will listen to the wishes of the Occupy Nevada City illustrious ones and pull up stakes and get out of Nevada City. Then the fair City can open their people's bank, complete with non-cash tokens. See ya'll in Burger Basin

Walt

This IS "New Berkeley" you know,,.. so this was bound to happen.

D. King

From what I have heard that branch is closing.

Here is OWS (Oakland)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=tuFQuEwJ5xI

Paul Emery

Pretty dramatic stuff George

Who are these Communists George? Where do they meet? Do they take turns reading Marx and plan in secret cellars their next phase of world domination? Gee, I know a lot of the folks out there on Broad Street and they seem pretty nice to me. I'd have never known they were part of the conspiracy started by Marx and Engels in the 1860's.

Let's salute the banksters then and the Republicrats who are the real peoples champions.

So Communism is the next stop after Socialism. Gee, they've been waiting for 60 years in Denmark to take over but so far they are still lurking. Pretty patient lot those commies.

George Rebane

PaulE - did you really read the above post???

Michael Anderson

I drove my art truck on Union and Broad Streets. That was the highlight of my late afternoon. Yay dirty hippies!! (-;

Todd Juvinall

D. King's link is too funny. After watching it I clicked on some more Youtubes OWS LINKS AND IT APPEARS OUR COUNTRY;S EDUCATION SYSTEM HAS failed miserably. Failed at least for our present capitalist system but not for the deceased communist system.

D. King

I looked at those too. Tee he he!

A lot of great Agenda 21 videos Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsBiXNvp9ec&feature=relmfu

D. King

LOL!

Howard Stern Exposes Occupy Wall St. Morons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsJPKMvWDmY&feature=related

Ben Emery

Why do you guys feel the need to ridicule anyone who disagrees with your point of view? Which one were you, the bullies or the bullied growing up? The personal insecurity is very evident with every post that is filled with name calling and ridicule.

Todd Juvinall

Oh please enough of the 2nd grade psychology. Grow up.

Michael Anderson

Todd, I challenge you to take a drive with me in my art truck. I double-dare you!

D. King

Ben,

The "...Morons" in the above is the title of the YouTube video.

"Why do you guys feel the need to ridicule anyone who disagrees with your point of view?"

I spent years with my ass frozen to flight lines launching U2s in support of NATO to bring the wall down and free people. So forgive me when I see and hear the same broken records being played by, sorry for this, clueless people.


bill tozer

What a riot you guys!! Kinda of hard to discount the videos, but it is possible they were doctored by some evil Republicans, Libertarians, or worse, by Constitutionalists. Thanks for the much needed laughs and excuse me for being a sexist pig as well as a capitalistic pig. Oink, oink. Yes, I should have said "you people" instead of "you guys", but I did not want to offend any of "those people." You know who you are. Ben Emery, I have read carefully each and every word in your last post and have pondered every syllable in great detail. Mr. Emery, I want you to know that I heard you and your opinion is important to me and you are worthwhile, valuable, and have a right to be here. May the wind continue to be at your back, oh precious child of the universe. Thank you for sharing.

Greg Goodknight

Sorry Ben, but many not on the left think the left can be pretty silly. It's the flip side of the left tending towards thinking the non-left are either evil or stupid, which is the message the local lefty blog(s) promote(s). It's very possible you just don't notice when it isn't your oxen being gored.

From the looks of the same old faces, I suspect OWS-NC could share the Peace Center/Handgun Control booth at the next County Fair without adding to the booth space, assuming the phenomenon lasts that long.


Ben Emery

You can look at my comments on all public forums and I generally stay away from making fun of peoples positions, every once in awhile I will out of frustration. I don't agree with the Tea Party solutions but defend their rage over at SFR all the time. But at RR it seems to be par for the course for many regulars.

So are you guys saying that there should be a test for intelligence before a person should be allowed to vote?

Here is the latest post about the TP
http://sierrafoothillsreport.com/2011/10/19/meckler-hell-yes-it-bothers-me-to-be-compared-to-ows/#comment-40108

Eric Anderson

Berta the Juvinhauler!

Larry Wirth

Great idea, Ben! An intelligence test is asking, maybe, too much, but a literacy test sounds about right.

Ben Emery

It wasn't my idea, it was used throughout history to prevent those who didn't share the ideas of the ruling class from having a say in their government. It was a favorite tool of the Southern United States to disenfranchise a specific type of voter. Have your read this article about 2012 voting in America?
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830


Techniques of Direct Disenfranchisement, 1880-1965
http://www.umich.edu/~lawrace/disenfranchise1.htm

Literacy Tests

"The first implicit literacy test was South Carolina's notorious "eight-box" ballot, adopted in 1882. Voters had to put ballots for separate offices in separate boxes. A ballot for the governor's race put in the box for the senate seat would be thrown out. The order of the boxes was continuously shuffled, so that literate people could not assist illiterate voters by arranging their ballots in the proper order. The adoption of the secret ballot constituted another implicit literacy test, since it prohibited anyone from assisting an illiterate voter in casting his vote. In 1890, Southern states began to adopt explicit literacy tests to disenfranchise voters. This had a large differential racial impact, since 40-60% of blacks were illiterate, compared to 8-18% of whites. Poor, illiterate whites opposed the tests, realizing that they too would be disenfranchised. To placate them, Southern states adopted an "understanding clause" or a "grandfather clause," which entitled voters who could not pass the literacy test to vote, provided they could demonstrate their understanding of the meaning of a passage in the constitution to the satisfaction of the registrar, or were or were descended from someone eligible to vote in 1867, the year before blacks attained the franchise ..."

Greg Goodknight

The infamous "butterfly ballot" was a fine IQ filter. More than that probably doesn't pass constitutional smell tests.

Todd Juvinall

BenE's link to his comment on the leftwingnut blog is very telling and a perfect example of his twisted logic. He says he is being fair to the TPP and the OWS in that post and does not denigrate. Well golly, he says the TPP are tools of the Koch brothers and that the TPP is fragmenting and what is left is a John Birch group of wannabees. Amazing self delusion. )WW2 veterans and their wives BenE?) Was there a like minded set of comments on the OWS? Nope, because BenE is simpatico with the loony leftwingnuts and it would be heresy to say anything derogatory (and as repetitive) about the OWS.

BenE, you are a cartoon here and even over there. No one takes you seriously because you are wishy-washy and a accomplished fibber about your positions. We on the right honor America and its wonders while all you leftwingers try to tear it apart. You and the OWS are simply hippies who loiter around the edges of our wonderful country, taking apart the true Patriots, that is too bad.

Todd Juvinall

The butterfly ballot. Now that was funny! I watched carefully all of the angst from Florida and was amazed the media at the time blamed Republicans fore the ballot when it was designed by the democrats in control of the elections there. That was a turning point for many people across the country into the liberal bias of the media. It did say a lot about the intelligence of the democrat voter. I remember they were saying they thought they were voting for Gore and the vote came out as Buchanan (I think). Lambs to the packing house, those voters were too stupid to read the instructions.

George Rebane

'Who can work, who may vote' has taken this question around the proverbial barn several times.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/09/who-can-work-who-may-vote.html

Jefferson's 'A nation ignorant and free, that never was and never shall be.' This has been a template for how to direct a nation to socialism for decades, and the teachers' unions have been an extremely effective tool in its implementation.

bill tozer

In a related bit of news, police report a rash of thefts at the OWS/NYC. Case in point is a young lady of 18 is very upset when her Mac laptop was stolen from her tent at OWS/NYC. She is distraught at the thought that one of her fellow occupiers would do such a thing. Said it is a $4,500 Mac. Hmmm. The recent Mac Pro I purchased and had it built to the max at the factory with Microsoft Word, hi res screen, 8 gigs, 4 way processor, other bells and whistles came to $2,400 plus tax. Even if I beefed it up with solid state drive it still would come under $3,5000. So, this story begs some questions: Was the young lady a product of our government run school system, thus explaining her math proficiencies? Why was a 18 year old with a $4,500 Mac protesting capitalism? Who would be dumb enough to bring valuables such as she described to the streets of NYC? Wonder if she missed some of the street action while waiting in line at the Apple Store...new I-phone is out. Hope her wait was not too long and hope she made it back to her tent in time to share solidarity with the oppressed workers...er...oppressed 18 year olds of the world!

Douglas Keachie

Need a picture of our host?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/6262935086/in/set-72157627935466616

Up there along with another 300 plus pictures and a few still cam video clips, including the all important bongo shot, and, of course, a couple of Michael's car. BTW, Greg, having an IQ above room temperature means never having to say, "I'm sorry." You sound like John Denver in one of his less important love songs.

Paul Emery

"It was just a planned demonstration of solidarity with those in the big cities like New York and Los Angeles who want to pull down capitalism and replace it with communism."

I did read it George. It was the same old description of well intended but misguided citizens having an outing as a gateway drug to socialism then Communism. The problem is that it's simply not true. Show me one modern country in the last 50 years that has gone that route? I'm talking Communist here, capital letters because if I read you right that's what you meant. Countries that you consider Socialistic, such as in Scandinavian Europe have not gone in that direction and show no inclination to do so since the citizens there have a high regard for their liberties and do not empower their military or police with the scope of resources that it would take to install and enforce a Communist dictatorship.

George, I think you go way to far in your extrapolations about what this rather folksy and very appropriate movement, if you can even call it that, is. Combined with the Tea Party on the other side of he street it sends a loud message of dissatisfaction to the powers that be that is well deserved. Now if they got smart and coordinated a well focused consumer strike of say 20% on selected targets heads would roll. My guess is that's the next step and it will be fun to watch.

Douglas Keachie

I also note no mention here of Michael Dell, of TEXAS, opening a new plant here, in CALIFORNIA, employing 1,500 people? Here's my comment from another well known blog of the area, which did post on the subject.

"maybe Dell is one of those folks who understands that California is home to the brightest and best, who choose to protest the destruction what I call, “The expectation of Cultural Economic Continuity.”

Had events like the wholesale exporting of jobs, factories, and so on, to third world countries with not a care in the world for how it affected the 99%, had been going on in 1776, I have no doubt all kinds of protections would have been written into the Constitution.

The retirement plans of the 99%, both public and private, have been destroyed or at least seriously compromised, by the reckless moves of the 1%’ers, as well as the overall tax base needed to support the infrastructure for the ongoing workings of the day to day American economy. Those who fly in private jets from compound to compound could apparently not give a tinker’s dam about the cracks and wholesale renderings of the structure of the economy the 99%’ers depend on.

The unions did NOT overcharge for their pensions, they were set up with the notion that the American economy would not be deliberately and maliciously sabotaged by the 1%’ers, leaving the tax base in shambles, a shadow of it’s former self. What Milken and others did with private industry pensions, one by one during the 1980′s, the 1%’ers have done with the entire economy, starting during the 1990′s.

Pictures of yesterday demonstrations are up at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/collections/72157627003553262/ "

Douglas Keachie

Maybe Todd won't make hey hey ho ho and march in the snow, but many of these people will, and HAVE, just last spring, no less.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/5542056536/in/set-72157626179727117/lightbox/

Douglas Keachie

The turnouts for this week's and last weeks easily equals the turnout for the Tea Party Patriots for both the Fourth of July and the Constitution Day parades, which are held during the summer, with advanced notice and the ability to draw from all over NorCal and beyond. ONC does not have that draw, as there are Occupy Sacramento, Occupy San Francisco, and so on. One more demonstration, already scheduled for next week, and Occupy Nevada County will have exceeded the marcher output of the Tea Party Patriots by 50% for the year, and the group didn't even exist 8 weeks ago.

Ben Emery

George,
I agree with you that the American public has been dumb down but through bread and circus not due to public education. The number one factor in academic success (learning and critical thinking) is support in the home. Our economy has been turned into two parent working households to have the same purchasing power as a single household of the 50 - 70's. I won't go down the usual list but once again looking back at history it was the 80's when the big shift took place and what party line republicans refuse to admit in those 30 plus years they have been at the controls a majority of time. Including the Obama administration deficits 82% of the national debt came from republican administrations. Please don't get into the house initiates the spending. In that case this republican congress should be taking the blame for the Obama deficits.

I will post the link to this book once again, I know you are a hard science guy but think you would enjoy the read. It really doesn't go into liberal/ conservative dichotomy but look at the generational archetypes.

http://www.fourthturning.com/html/fourth_turning.html

http://www.fourthturning.com/html/history___turnings.html


Ben Emery

Paul,
Baby steps, I also saw the misleading remarks about communism but the overall piece was a difference in opinion. George is rising above his conservative regulars with slowly leaving the overt divisive rhetoric out of the dialogue. And for that I will thank you again George.

Walt

It looks more like a group that just want to re-live the "stoned ages" one last time, and are now "teaching" the younger generation, " This is how WE did it back in the good old days. The only thing missing is the smell of tear gas. This pepper spray they use today is nothing in comparison to the "good stuff". "

So let them have their moment of reliving their past. The cold snap will soon be here, and then we will see who the real diehards are.

Douglas Keachie

Hey walt, you missed this post. Now please come up with a picture with as many Tea Party Patriots, demonstrating out in the snow.

Maybe Todd won't make hey hey ho ho and march in the snow, but many of these people will, and HAVE, just last spring, no less.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/5542056536/in/set-72157626179727117/lightbox/

Ben Emery

Todd,
You are like a bad addiction. No matter how much I try to avoid you I talk myself into one more time.

I don't think you know what the term ridicule means so here is the definition

Ridicule- Subject to mockery and derision.

Not once in my comment did I ridicule or make fun of TP but rather made an observation.

My opinion on the TP is there are the corporate faction and there are the grassroots. The corporate side get the news coverage, pay for the $500k buses, $100k speaking fees, the sound systems, stages, and so on. The grassroots part is much like OWS in the fact that they know something is wrong but haven't followed government/ politics close enough to put their finger on it.

The core mission statement of TP is the same rhetoric from the republican party platform. Tax Enough Already was the mantra but as the republican party have made their counter movement to OWS the 53% excludes many if not the majority of the grassroots TP. The 53% is a very misleading use of statistics, anyone who works for a paycheck pays taxes. The 47% don't earn enough to pay federal income taxes. Those would have been your laborers that you charged your clients journeyman wages. Those will be the people serving you food at restaurants. Those are the people who ring up your groceries are tear your ticket at the theater. Or those are the people who work on the floor at the stores of the biggest employer in the United States, WalMart.

I am talking about language and how it is used.

For an example your 20 October 2011 at 08:14 AM comment contained

leftwingnut
twisted logic
loony
leftwingnuts
you are a cartoon
wishy-washy
You and the OWS are simply hippies who loiter around the edges of our wonderful country, taking apart the true Patriots, that is too bad.

Walt

Sorry Keach,, I think I will pass. When someone keeps begging for someone to " look at MY pictures", and also complains that the local paper won't publish them, ( that was you,,right? ) and say he won't buy a subscription in protest, is a little on the childish side of things. So you might have some people on a snowy day. Remember the VETS that beat the protesters there? WE showed up long before the first "peacenik" did. So like usual, the VETS are the " First in,, last out".

Russ Steele

Ben,

The Tea Party comes in several flavors. The grass roots organization is the Tea Party Patriots. The Tea Party Express with the bus and speaking fees in run by a GOP associated PR firm. There are several other flavors, including The Tea Party.net which is the voice of an Washington based Tea Party organization. Yes, I know it is confusing, but the largest organizations and the true grass roots organization is the Tea Party Patriots. If you have not been to any of the local TPP events, you may want to go and see what is really going on. Most of the sound systems are donated. Many of the TPP organizations have web page and blogs and run training programs on the Constitution, Community Leadership and Community Organizations,and hold public forums. The member are not uninformed. Do not be baffled by those seeking public recognition, most of the TPP activities are going on behind the scenes. Just check out the latest parades, the TPP were the largest organizations in numbers and will be most effective in the coming election.

Douglas Keachie

Walt, I took photos over at The Union gathering site for the march, BEFORE I came back, parked, and found about 10 vets on the bridge. I rather susupect you lose this one. Please note images were posted for free, non profit and personal use, and The Union still wouldn't publish the link. I've since spoken with Brian Hamilton and kissed and made up. How come "Sorry" is such a favorite in the Sarcasticon of Rightys?

Ben Emery

Russ,
I agree with most of what you wrote but I do know many people in the NCTPP and their understanding of how government works and who has been responsible for the policies that have brought our country to our knees isn't that high. You guys need to remember I have been coaching pretty much year round (2 to 3 sports) in the area for 8 years or so (12 or more players per team). I know many people from all political stripes. I am very approachable and cordial to those who I might disagree so political conversations are part of our relationship. I listen to KNCO radio all the time and I mostly hear the grassroots NCTPP repeating of talking points of the echo chamber but very little comprehension of those talking points. This isn't an insult but an observation that I mentioned before about people knowing something is wrong but haven't been following government/ politics close enough to know exactly what is going on. Unless someone is a political wonk they don't follow policy to closely and it is understandable that people are kind of blank when asked.

Here is a article by former Reagan and HW Bush administration Bruce Bartlett in Forbes about this very topic in 2010
http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/18/tea-party-ignorant-taxes-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html

Douglas Keachie

And, BTW, I am working my way up to 1 Million Views. Added the most recent 100,000 in less than four months. Why/ because it's there. Here's a screen shot of today's stats:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/6264012701/in/photostream/lightbox/

bill tozer

Douglas, thanks for posting the pics. One sign I really liked was Ready For Change, albeit I would have worded it to read "Where is the Change?". They looked like a gentle lot on the sidewalks enjoying themselves. Did not see any signs decrying the voting shenanigans immediately following the War Between the States in the 1870's so I am puzzled why this thread went there. Oh, I remember. Change the topic, deflect, avoid, and the best defensive appears to be an good offensive. Wonder what kind of political beast would jump from the leisurely stroll in Nevada City to 1870. Wasn't around then, so maybe it resembled the Tea Pot Dome scandal of Grant's administration. No tear gas on the streets back then either. Who knows what lurks in the heart of man, but thanks Doug for keeping on topic.

D. King

Douglas Keachie

Thanks for the pictures Doug.

Ben,

"I am talking about language and how it is used."

What concerns me is not so much the language used, but the actions to ratchet, push, pull, (by block and tackle), and swing the pendulum so far to the left, that when the evitable structural failure occurs , it swings back so hard as to crush decent. Something to think about!

D. King

dissent not desent Sorry.

D. King

inevitable...more coffee!

Mikey McD

OWS sign suggestion: "Bring the troops home, use them to fight capitalism"

Mikey McD

A consumer strike (voluntary and peaceful) would do more to cripple 'evil capitalists' than using our parks as toilets.

The OWS mob's hate agenda requires violence/force for 'success.'

George Rebane

BenE 1025am - Am familiar with the PC answer as to why our kids stay dumb while school spending multiplies upward. The problem is that the 'two-parents working' is not the recent phenomenon claimed by the union-promoting left. A very large counter example is the evidence from the children of WW2 refugee immigrants made up of families where both parents worked (usually at hard physical jobs), built their homes, and raised their families. I am from such a home - my parents worked through all my school years and so did all the immigrant parents. I am a proud product of the American public school system from the alfa to the omega. My blessing was that I was able to be educated when teachers had recourse on students, and school districts had recourse on teachers - consequently, almost all my teachers were godlike in their classrooms and interactions with their students.

The stats on the hundreds of thousands (millions) of kids that came out of 'two-parents working' families are impressive by any standard, especially today's. It was a no-nonsense existence, we all arrived home about the same time, and we all had to pull our weight to make the family work until everyone went their separate way in the morning.

As a hot button conclusion, let me again state that I have found this generation's teachers, in the aggregate (with the inevitable exceptions), to be an ignorant and justifiably defensive lot, working primarily to get through an unrewarding career to enjoy their pensions. OWS again confirms that very few of them know enough to properly advise their students.

Douglas Keachie

Bring the troops home. Use them and their equipment to help build the world's largest solar infrastructure systems, including hybrid systems that generate electricity by panel during the day, to, in part, pump water uphill, to then generate electricity at night, as the water returns downhill through turbines all night long. Somebody should be looking at the south facing slopes for suitable terrain, near major urban centers. Or perhaps a whole series of smaller ones to power electric rail lines, would help build the future.

George Rebane

DougK - the economic feasibility of such wonderfully simplistic schemes as this one are easy to pencil out on a spreadsheet. Put in the costs or building such a facility per KWhr per acre generated, put in the cost to build the water reservoirs at altitude along with the water pumping costs, put in the cost of keeping the denuded mountainsides from eroding in the rains, put the hydro-electric plant costs, put in the maintenance costs and the conversion efficiencies, and then amortize the whole thing over whatever period you want at an interest rate of your choosing to see at what cost you will be selling electricity into the grid to make things work out. I believe that then you and your fellow enthusiasts in such delightful projects will see why no one is busting their balls to build one of these things on their own nickel. (Anything is possible using OPM extracted by force.)

Todd Juvinall

BenE denigrates others with fancy words and when confronted denies it all. He declares himself cordial. No BenE, your writings always contavin veiled slights and cloaked slams and you think it is so funny I guess. Fior instance you said this a couple of posts ago,

"Russ,
I agree with most of what you wrote but I do know many people in the NCTPP and their understanding of how government works and who has been responsible for the policies that have brought our country to our knees isn't that high."

This is a prime example of how and what a "smarter than everyone else" liberals does. Your obviously saying the TPP are stupid. I say they are smarter because they are real people, not those handed a free lunch. You see BenE, you want a discourse that you want but don't practice. When you decide to stop being high and mighty and dis little old ladies and WW2 veterans, then maybe you would gain a little respect here.

Walt

Keach.you never answered my question from way back. ( or you chose to flat out ignore it) that was you playing in the street dressed like you were on a Hawaiian vacation? (A red, flowery, Hawaiian shirt, cargo shorts, and a straw hat if my memory is right after all this time. but I know I'm close. OR was it your partner? But you didn't get the money shot you were sooooo hoping to get.
But the real funny part was later when you tried to claim I wasn't there because "you" didn't see me. (Fed you crow that night.LOL)
Remember? I had to help you find me in your own photo? ( staring you right in the lens)
Ya,, that night was fun. Again,,, the rules didn't apply to you. The Union had a policy about " outing" someones identity, but you did it anyway. ( you used my picture, (ya, you took it) for your avatar pic.) Now if I, or someone else had done the same, I bet you or someone else would have bitched from the highest of the trees to have The Union do something about it. ( and have)

So was that you?


Douglas Keachie

Well George, with labor we are already paying for, equipment we have already paid for, and a dash of "drill, baby, drill" (besides, green folks can plant the hills with MJ, and you know how well they're take care to make sure that crop grows) and I suspect it will pencil out just fine. Let it be a combat zone, so housing is tents (low cost), and latrine's can provide the necessary organic fertilizer for the MJ.

stevenfrisch

Yeah, Ben! How dare you use 3 syllable words. Don't you know that people want to be related to on their own level?

Todd Juvinall

Uh Oh, he's back from the taxpayers paid junket! Smarter than the average bear Freisch. What a hoot.

Greg Goodknight

The chief executive chef is back tossing gratuitous insults.

Keachie is spinning new ideas as incompatible with reality as ever.

Ben is doing his best to appear a proper left-liberal intellectual despite shortcomings in ability and education.

All is as it was.

Ben Emery

Todd,
What are you talking about. Trying to label me with an elitist brush is about as far as someone could go from reality. D King posted a series of clips showing how unsophisticated and unknowledgeable the OWS protesters were when interviewed.

Look at how this thread progressed and tell me I wasn't giving an example that in both the grassroots part of the tea party and many in the OWS don't know exactly how it happened but just know that their government is no longer working in their favor. They know that special interest control the parties, they know the banks looted the treasury, and they know something is drastically wrong with the system.

You want to make me out to be a Marxist when in reality I am somebody who has looked at the history of the country and looked at what the difference between the good times for the majority of the people vs the bad times for the majority of people. Researched the policies that were in place for both and shaped my opinion. Pretty common sense stuff.

I will put it to you this way and I think George and Russ will back me up. Would you say all the characterizations of the Tea Party are true or did the media go after the smallest extreme most controversial fringe to identify the movement?
I have been an activist a long time and understand the media will play any angle to create controversy and more interest.

Ben Emery

George,
I just disagree with you as does the research done on the topic. The era you were raised in was absent of pure box/ chain store economy and the products were made within the US with American workers earning decent wages. Mom and pop stores dominated local economies keeping the money in the local community. Of course there were big chains but they weren't anywhere near as dominant as today. In your era the money stayed in America where as today the money gets multiplied very little before leaving the country.

Have you thought about it in this way.

Not everybody is meant to go to college. When manufacturing/ skilled labor jobs left the country so did the ability for many to earn a decent living? Replacing those decent paying manufacturing or related jobs with service industry low wage no benefit jobs has left an entire generation with very little pride or hope towards the future. Today we have 5 people looking for every 1 job opening. This is a no win situation all the way around. People will compete for the lowest wages/ benefits thus reducing the demand in the market allowing the recession to deepen into a full blown depression. But wall st and transnational corps are putting up record profits and bonuses.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703956604576110612955564394.html

Ben Emery

Greg,
You got that right, I am doing the best I can despite not being part of academia. I made a choice to live my life on a certain path and am doing rather well in my opinion. I was born with the privilege of being a white male with relative decent intelligence in the United States of America. My parents both worked, a teacher and a truck driver. Without their SS, medicare, and pension they would be in a world of hurt. I chose to live a nomadic lifestyle for the first dozen or more years of my adulthood. Work hard, play hard, save money, and travel. I started college in my 30's going part time that fit into my busy schedule and within our budget. I still am taking a class here and there but decided to wait for our youngest to graduate from NU before really pursuing a degree. I was on a 3 1/2 year wait list for nursing school when we made this decision.

George Rebane

BenE 602pm - Am not sure which of my comments you are contending with. The report you present is most certainly accurate on its general points and I have already agreed with all of them in past posts. As technology advances, so will the disparity in wage scales - see 'John Henry, the steel drivin' man'.

D. King

When you study ideologies you've been fed, you’re not studying, you’re indoctrinating yourself.

Todd Juvinall

D. King, that is totally cool.

BenE, I just simply copy/pasted your own comments on the Tea Party. What is the problem? You portray yourself as some intellectual but you are from from that. You have got the liberal disease of you are the smart ones and the rest of the "masses" need to do your bidding. You are in the wrong place for your attitude.

bill tozer

Gee, Todd, that was not very Nevada City friendly. Now somebody is going to get all butt hurt. Go to your room and eat a vegan sandwich with hummus spread and promise to be nice to the Adams and Steves of the world before you come out.

Todd Juvinall

Darn, OK.

bill tozer

Ok, Todd, you can come out now. My turn in the penalty box, :D

bill tozer

Found this interesting video of how the OWS is being viewed from across the pond http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ex5Nh06toM

Ben Emery

Todd,
You are a joke. Answer the question

Would you say all the characterizations of the Tea Party are true or did the media go after the smallest extreme most controversial fringe to identify the movement?

Douglas Keachie

Not sure about a straw hat, flowery Hawaiian shirt is possible, did not have wife with me, so Dirt and Walt are one and the same? http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/5541485567/in/set-72157626179727117/lightbox/

Douglas Keachie

Todd, as near as I can tell, our host here would be somewhat insulted if someone said he was not and could not be an intellectual, so maybe you should stop using the term in derogatory ways. Or maybe you should modify the term, with "post modern." That would make you sound sort of like an intellectual, and would probably corral many of the folks who make you upset.

Greg Goodknight


Ben, you need to broaden your reading list.

George Rebane

BenE 1026pm - I note that things are getting a little testy (and boring) around here again. Your 'or' question demands the tautological 'no' and then 'yes' answers. Please continue the point that you are developing.

Todd Juvinall

It is so easy to smoke out BenE's hypocrisy. He refuses to answer our questions and complains about name calling then says I am a joke. What a hoot. Once again BenE, why did you call the Tea Party members stupid as you did in the post I referenced from your prior post? Why can't you answer the question?

Regarding Keachi's last statement about intellectualism. I am simply referring to liberal wannabees who, like BenE and Keachie, try their best to portray themselves as intellectual when they are really pseudo. George and Greg are truly intellectuals and the difference is readily apparent.

Regarding BenE's question to me about the Tea Party. Well, I am still trying to figure out where the question originated, but hey, here it goes. Yes BenE, the media, made up of 93% democrat voters and trained in liberal arts colleges by leftwing professors (all Watergate Pulitzer wannabees) , called the TPP all those names right out of the box. The reason is simple and even you should be able to figure it out. The TPP want a return to sanity by our government regarding the Constitution and money. The press is pre-disposed to the liberal agenda of the Constitution that it is simply a guideline and can be changed and manipulated to achieve the liberal agenda. Classic clash and because they media is controlled by the left, only one view was shown to the American public and as we know, the left practices the "say a lie enough and it becomes the truth). There, even a third grader can understand what I just wrote.

Greg Goodknight

Me an intellectual? I think I could effectively challenge that. Some might say I do so on a regular basis.

In the land of the blind, a one-eyed man will be king.

bill tozer

Fear the pointy headed intellectuals who can't park their bicycles straight.http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jun/9/fear-the-intellectual/

Mikey McD

I (over)paid for a Finance degree at a private catholic college ($122k). Alan Greenspan (Central planners/The FED) was worshiped and Keynesian economics was the sole ideology peddled. Since then, I have learned more about economics at mises.com than all the indoctrinations at college (Austrian Economics was not even whispered on campus).

The OWS mob needs to review the root of our country's problems; central planning (for sale to the highest bidder). End the FED.


Steve Enos

Mikey... I think the FED is the center of this economic mess. Who really controls the FED?

By the way... the OWS folks are screaming that the FED is a major part of the problem.

D. King

Lookie here, your $5.00 light bulbs are making a difference. Non-Tax paying GE is doing fine!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/22/business/ge-profit-up-despite-volatile-economy.html?_r=1

But wait left-wing corporate shills, the Berkley EARTH project has confirmed Global Warming!

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/10/20/the-berkeley-earth-surface-temperature-project-puts-pr-before-peer-review/

Yes, in a non-peer reviewed study it has been confirmed that Global Warming is real; and in an un
related story CARB is implementing a Cap and Trade system .

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/20/BA901LK83V.DTL#ixzz1bOm92bN8

Why don’t you just turn out your pockets and save us some time?

Oh, I almost forgot, guess who helped to fund the Berkley EARTH project confirming Global Warming?
That’s right, the koch brothers… Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation ($150,000)

Everything is upside down and spinning around!

Mikey McD

"Who really controls the FED?" - POTUS. Limit the power of the federal government and lobbyists, bankers, labor unions wont be given preferential treatment at 'our' expense. Collusion with government by corporations, labor unions, bankers, etc is only made possible when a government has too much power.

Yes, a few Ron Paulites (End the Fed) have infiltrated the OWS mob; though the Paulites have drastically different solutions (hint: liberty).

Douglas Keachie

I'll stand with Greg in being a self-effacing, non-intellectual, elitist. Give a choice between a good book and 3 feet of fresh powder at 8am, I'm on the tram.

bill tozer

From Market Watch: If you really think banks have a free hand to make money at the expense of the rest of us, you can just go out and buy their stocks right now and make a fortune.

After all, they’ve collapsed. Bank of America’s stock (XNYS:BAC - News) has been halved since the start of the year. At $6.40, the shares are trading at a third of book value (according to FactSet Research), about where they were at the absolute lows in March 2009. (Bank of America just reported $6.2 billion net income in the third quarter, returns on average equity of 22% and Tier One capital — a measure of balance-sheet strength — up to a decent 11.5%. Make of it what you will.)

Citigroup Inc. (XNYS:C) has lost a third of its value this year.

Even the Vampire Squid itself has covered its stockholders in red ink. Shares of Goldman Sachs Group Inc. (XNYS:GS - News) have lost a third of their value this year. The stock is trading below book value.

Contrarians, ho! According to the most recent surveys, big institutional money managers are massively underweight bank stocks. They won’t touch them with a 10-foot pole. They’re terrified. This is often a contrarian buying indicator. Not always, but often.

Douglas Keachie

The Koch money and this study deserves a careful look, which is taking more time than I have just now. Later...

Douglas Keachie

Passing thought for the engineers out there:

BTW, how about a bunch of micro generators, like so many Fussball kickers, strung across the Sacto, and adjusted according to flow and depth? Maybe even on the Yuba? Have a master power gathering and armored cable on the bottom, and breakaway capability for floating and submerged debris, for each little generator, which would then go into "help, help" mode, flashing lights and GPS transponder.

George Rebane

DougK - The use of efficient drag/propulsion technology derived from California giant kelp (macrocystis pyrifera)study has already been incorporated into airplane and ship propellers, and is a candidate for extracting energy from fluid flows (air and water). Micro generation presents a problem of scale selection because each micro generator has the material overhead of being a self-contained, independently operating device. To get around those costs is why wind turbines are so large. Venturi flow tubes would be better because they have no moving parts. Now if we could only ionize the water that would flow through those tubes.

bill tozer

Doug, at least you come up with ideas, ideas I think don't pass the practicality test. Not a put down, just the way I see it from my little corner of the universe. You once proposed covering the empty Nevada City School playground wall to wall with solar panels for example. Do you really this country will tolerate having every bit of open space looking like a power generating plant? Every south facing mountain from sea to shining sea? The wind farm in Chesapeake Bay got shot down. Guess the Kennedys love green energy, but not where they go sailing. In Santa Barbara a dude built a green to the max house complete with a wind turbine. It was the first green devise closed down by the Coastal Commission. Told him he had to lower it to 9' and move it behind his house, which rendered it useless. Britain has cut land based wind subsidies because of inherent inefficiencies and return on the dollar (pound?) Instead, they are pushing off shore wind generation and tidal power. In an unrelated article yesterday, here is what Scotland is doing. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-21/scots-government-proposes-change-to-ros-bands-in-line-with-u-k-.html What was that Joni Mitchell song? "Pave Paradise, but up a solar field" Don't think tidal will work in Arizona, but I could be wrong.

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