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14 October 2011

Comments

bill tozer

Nice picture of the streets, Dr. Rebane. The puzzling thing about the photo is I believe the UAW got bailed out when GM was forced to put billions up front into the that union to fund their under water health care plan. Did not someone bailout GM by letting them bankrupt 300 billion (the largest in US history)and loan them billions to achieve equal footing with the likes of Ford Motor Company? Did not Obama's bankruptcy dude screw the bondholders of GM by kicking them down to the bottom of the priority list and pay them pennies on the dollar while giving the UAW class A shares at 6-9% interest rate....millions of shares. I find it ironic at best there would be UAW signs at Occupy Wall Street since they got one of the biggest bailouts in memory. Didn't the UAW get an exemption from Obamacare so the UAW workers would not be required to pay the "Cadillac" tax? No pun intended. Didn't the UAW....

George Rebane

Yes they did indeed - a well formed and timely observation BillT.

Russ Steele

They are in it for the long haul. The World Net Daily has this story HERE.


A George Soros-funded economist taught a course to the Occupy Wall Street protesters purportedly to help the activists better understand what caused the global financial crisis.

Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz also recently addressed the so-called social protests rocking Spain.

Besides accepting funding from the controversial billionaire, Stiglitz has engaged in numerous projects with Soros and sits on the boards of Soros organizations, including one openly seeking to remake the world's economy.

ooo

Stiglitz is deeply tied to Soros, the billionaire whose own connections to the Occupy Wall Street movement have come under scrutiny the past few days.

Stiglitz serves on the international advisory board of Soros' Open Society Foundation.

The economist is the co-founder and president of the Initiative for Policy Dialogue, a globalist group which is funded by Soros' Open Society Institute.

Along with numerous other Open Society Institute leaders, Stiglitz is a member of the Collegium International, a globalist group that proclaims in its official declaration "the Earth, home of humanity, constitutes a whole denoted by interdependence."

Perhaps most significantly, Stignitz sits on the board of the Institute for New Economic Thinking, or INET, an organization literally seeking to reorganize the entire global economic system.

bill tozer

Can't call the street protesters 'unemployed' anymore, well not all of them. A search of Craig's List reveals job openings to protest in NYC for $600/week. Wonder if they pay bennies?

George Rebane

The Union reports that Nevada City councilwoman Reinette Senum is heading for NYC later in the month. With the 'job openings' you report BillT, maybe she won't have to worry about airfare.

Mikey McD

It appears that I posted my long diatribe on the wrong post... here it is again (my apologies for redundancy).

The Use of FORCE (collective) vs. Voluntary Action (individual)

Kudos to the various movements emerging in American politics (Tea Party, Occupy, etc). The Unites States needs to be having deep, rational and constructive conversations about solving the various crisis in America today. One can hope that the grassroots movements will require participation (though thought and action) of more Americans in the political process. Maybe, just maybe such movements will cure some of the pervasive apathy towards public policy.

As WE attempt to solve the almost countless crisis in America (continual unconstitutional wars, abominable education system, unethical/inequitable tax structure, debauchery of the US Dollar, unfunded liabilities, failing entitlement programs, central banker manipulations, etc etc) we need to debate the foundational values which will guide our solutions. The aforementioned movements set the stage for real, productive debates.

The Declaration of Independence and US Constitution seem to be a natural starting point for this conversation. Were these documents written to enable government or to protect the people from government?

When is the use of force moral? Every single law requires the use of force to implement; behind every law is a prison cell, policing body and ‘a gun.’ What are you willing to force upon another American knowing the punishments for his/her transgressions?

How much control should an individual American have in pursuing “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”? Should Americans have a choice (education, participation in entitlement program, diet, etc)? When should force be applied to members of society to attain “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?”

Should an individual be forced to participate in entitlement programs? Should an individual be forced to pay into and forced to participate in a failing education system? Should some individuals be forced to pay taxes while others are not? Should all Americans be forced to live under the manipulations of Central Bankers (The Federal Reserve)? Should all Americans be forced to contribute financially or otherwise to unconstitutional wars? What laws does our society believe moral enough to be back up by force?

Does individuality or collectivism provide a better foundation to live the promise of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”?

Should force continue to be available to the highest bidder (labor unions or corporations)?

Voluntary: proceeding from the will or from one’s own choice or consent.

Would the promise of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” be better served by the voluntary consent of each individual? Would the absence of force and the presence of voluntary actions drive the solutions demanded of both individuals and collectivists? Would competition through voluntary actions in everything from education to commerce allow individual freedoms to promote the values of society as a whole better than force?

Are the problems facing America the result of collective force or individual voluntary action?

http://media.mises.org/mp3/HS_2010/05_HS2010_Woods.mp3

Mikey McD

I remember how much of a pain it was for me to leave work early for 1 day to attend the first (or was it the second?) Sacramento Tea Party rally protesting the economic policies of Bush and Obama. As a productive member of society I cannot imagine spending days/weeks+ required for an occupy strategy...

Great post George, welcome home.

Mikey McD

p.s. Pimco says that pension plans simply need to return 11% 'forever' to save pensions. With treasuries paying zilch... good luck.

http://www.pimco.com/EN/Insights/Pages/Prediction-Pain.aspx

Account Deleted

Greek bonds are around 17% and climbing, but I'm not sure about the Germans being able to pay them off 'forever'. Otherwise, the pension funds could look into 'green energy'. If they act quick, the feds will kick in billions and they're not real concerned about ever getting the money back.
Welcome back, George. The world is continuing it's death spiral as the whiners and non-producers continue to beg, threaten and then finally, demand 'what's theirs' with violence. The Euro money crisis has been averted yet again, with a kick of the proverbial can down the Yellow Brick Road worthy of a MU striker.
Hope your vacation was restful and entertaining, you are back just in time to cover the Nevada County protests.

Walt

So just what's their exist strategy?

Walt

This comment from Jones needs a little explaining from our
locals.
"Former White House green jobs czar Van Jones called on Americans to “stand in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street” and praised protesters’ refusal on Friday to leave their encampment in New York as “truly amazing” and “a victory.”

“Truly amazing,” read a statement released via email by the non-profit organization “Rebuild the Dream.”

“Early this morning in New York, faced with the threat of eviction, the protesters at Occupy Wall Street were joined by union members, by community organizers, and by thousands of other New Yorkers standing in solidarity with them,” Jones gushed. “And because they refused to back down, the park’s owners had to.”

This isn't city property, it's PRIVATE property.
Let;s see how our local .99% say this is fine and dandy.

D. King

I'll be right there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSo-MEiMbac&feature=player_embedded

bill tozer

Dr Rebane, me thinks you hit the nail on the head with the title of this article. Yep, the left is desperate and acting unhinged, although they would never admit it. Only 14 protesters arrested this early morn, one for overturning a police scooter, some for blocking entrances, and a a few for overturning trash cans. Police in riot gear showed great restraint when a group tossed beer bottles at them. The police did nothing but stood there and did not retaliate with news crews rolling tape in tow. Bummer, how can you start a revolution when the other side just stands there and ruins good footage for the 5 o'clock news. So much for recycling bottles and putting trash in the can. With the old stiff upper lip, New York Senator Charles E (Chuck E Cheese) Schumer declared confidently and without hesitation that the Democrats will easily retain the Senate and win the elections next year. Hmmm, meanwhile the Republicans don't like the current Administration, the Independents think the country is headed in the wrong direction, and the Dems are disillusioned with Obama and are taking their frustration out on the street demanding their beggars cups be filled. All the while the Tea Party has not gone anywhere and are quietly building steam and numbers behind the scenes, despite what Chuck E and Nancy and Meet the Press say. Believe the Beatles were correct in their song "Revolution" when they wrote "carrying pictures of Chairman Mao ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow"...Yes, there are no signs of Chairman Mao or Huey Newton, or The Weather Underground, yet I see a resemblance to the YIPPIES (Youth International Party, the party of my partying youth)

Russ Steele

According to CNN's Roland Martin, the Occupy Movement should not be political, but a moral partisan movement.


Whenever there is an uprising among the people of this country in the form of protests and organized dissent, especially with a presidential election 13 months away, the discussion inevitably shifts to what it will mean for one of the nation's two political parties.

No matter how hard they've tried to suggest that they aren't partisan, the tea party is nothing more than a sub-group of the Republican Party. If there were a healthy number of tea party Democrats, then that would be true. But there isn't, so it's nonsensical to waste time not calling the tea party Republicans exactly what they are: tea party Republicans. From Day One the movement aligned itself with the GOP, and that is true today.


Yet the attempt by Fox News, conservative radio show hosts and the GOP presidential candidates to associate Occupy Wall Street protesters with the image of far-left radical hippies being in lockstep with the Democratic Party is wrong, shameful and pure intellectual dishonesty.

Being concerned about the nation's well-being, and the depths to which the big-monied interests are driving the nation's policies is not a partisan question; it is a moral one.

It makes a great cover story, but it does not address reality, someone is paying the freight for this movement. And, who ever is paying the bill is calling the shots. Speaking of shots, the talking head on MSNBC are rooting fo a Kent State Moment.

D. King

"how can you start a revolution when the other side just stands there..."

LOL!

It's not easy, but, if it were a revolution of mimes, I could see it; especially if they climbed up the rope and got out of the box!

Walt

That would be the likes of Moveon, Soros, the ACORN retread, and what ever Jones's outfit is called.
But now he has his useful idiots at his disposal.

D. King

"Yet the attempt by Fox News, conservative radio show hosts and the GOP presidential candidates to associate Occupy Wall Street protesters with the image of far-left radical hippies being in lockstep with the Democratic Party is wrong, shameful and pure intellectual dishonesty."

Yeah Russ, no link at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHG6dfjXpUY

Megan

I think conservatives and Republicans do ourselves a huge disservice by writing off all the Occupy Wall Street folks. No offense, guys, but I get the feeling a lot of you, along with a lot of the conservative leaders out there remember vividly the original hippies and justly resent the hell out of them. I was born in the eighties, but I resent them too for the garbage they installed in our educational and political systems. There is a new kind of hippy now. MANY of my home schooling friends are also gardening, child-rearing, home-birthing, doctor-eschewing, dread-locked, hemp-skirt-with-no-underwear-wearing and are rabidly libertarian in the most unexpected ways. They're told by the elders they learn macrame and herbal medicine from that they should be liberals and traditional feminists, but they are increasingly turning to conservatism, and they are very well thought-out.
I was recently talking to another kind of hippy, who I assumed was all for government handouts because she doesn't have much of a job, no kids or apparent purpose in life, and is frequently drug-addled. She told me she's uninterested in politics, but that she has voted for Ron Paul in the last two elections. I'm with Mikey. Interest is a good thing. We need to focus more on getting the message of freedom to these folks and less on disparaging them. More of them than you realize want to fight on our side. Ron Paul should have co-opted occupy wall street before the unions had a chance.

RL Crabb

Oh, but it's so much easier to lump all those weird lookin' freaks into one easy-to-hate mob. Sound familiar, Tea Party?

Russ Steele

Megan,

Interesting insight, please continue to post your thoughts and ideas. We can all learn from another point of view.

George Rebane

Thank you Megan for those good thoughts. We often do over-lump together things that are much more nuanced. But how can we do justice to the various shadings of belief if they allow themselves to be co-opted by a distinct ideology, and subsequently don't separate from that ideology?

Keep the good thoughts coming.

Todd Juvinall

The world belongs to those that show up. With voter turnout under fifty percent the process is now run by a majority of the fifty percent. That is a small number but when I read musings about conservative hippies I get a tingle up my leg there may be hope.

Russ Steele

Occupy Wall Street garners $150,000 in donations … From Who?

This rats nest of radicals is being funded at a 501(c)(3) non-profit, at least that is the cover story.

From Hot Air:

A couple of days ago, CNN reported that the Alliance for Global Justice, a far-left organization that backs anarchist demonstrations and anti-military protests as well as operating as a sponsor for the more notorious World Can’t Wait “resistance” group, has set itself up as a receiver for donations to the Occupy Movement. 

ooo

One tax attorney who prefers to remain anonymous e-mailed me [Ed Morrissey] about this arrangement:
I’m a liberal in good standing and an attorney with a good deal of experience with charities..  While I obviously disagree w/ you on most things political, you’ve always struck me as reasonable, and my loathing of the abuse of charitable status is one of those things that really gets under my skin.  You may or may not think any of this is interesting, but if you do I’d greatly appreciate confidentiality.

That said: I saw the other day that Occupy Wall Street had gotten $150k in contributions, so that led me to the site to figure out their tax status, assuming that there wouldn’t be anything in particular, which would mean the income should be taxable.  That, in turn, led me to their donation page at an organization called “Alliance for Global Justice.”  It turns out that AGJ is a 501(c)(3) tax exempt public charity, and it’s using its exemption to collect tax deductible contributions and then disbursing the funds to the protesters (under the aegis of “fiscal sponsor,” a generally accepted tool for charities).  So AGJ is taking the position that the protests are “charitable,” and getting the taxpayers to subsidize the protests to the tune of 35 cents per dollar contributed.  On their 3/31/11 Form 990, they report zero lobbying expenses, which, based on a cursory review of their website, seems absurd.  Granted, “lobbying” is a bit of a term of art in exempt organization law, so it may or may not be accurate.

At any rate, this is flatly outrageous.  While I couldn’t stand the tea party, at least they didn’t have the nerve to call themselves a charity and accept deductible donations.

Megan

I hesitate to stick my neck out too far in disagreeing with you, George, because I don't have time to research the news. But, based on the NPR I listen to while doing chores around the house, I think we might be really shooting ourselves in the foot here by not jumping in and supporting the legitimate gripes of the OWS. When they first started camping in that park in New York I was really interested because the NPR reporters seemed to be sweating bullets. Young people are unhappy with the Great Leader? College kids have opinions on economic policy all of a sudden? They're unhappy with the crappy education we have deigned to force upon them? One reporter was at the park the day after the Unions showed up and he and the lady back at the studio were having this cute little conversation about the "legitimacy" of the protestors. After a minute or two they decided that now that the unions were there to babysit, everything was going to be A OK. It might not be too late for us to get it together. We HAVE to start fighting the real war and quit bickering over armpit hair and who's in a cult and who's not if we're going to win this. George Washington was not exactly pleased when he met the Continental Army. He privately called New Englanders filthy and uncouth and wrote that he never would have accepted the job had he known what he'd be dealing with. People who love freedom are going to be radically different from each other. We should be the party with real diversity because we should be the party of all thinking, honest people who want to make their own choices.

Walt

Megan,I take this group vary seriously. Some do have a legitimate, point, that sort of mirrors Conservative gripes. But the majority of of them are the ones that are demanding the "free ride" continue. Now we have some "super left" wanting to pay people up to 30 grand for nothing.
That would be Jessy Jackson Jr.

With all due respect Mr Crabb,the hate mob is there and growing fast, with the call for violence getting louder and louder.


RL Crabb

That's right, Walto. And a lot of it is coming from the right as well as the left. I read the truly wacko blogs too.

bitt tozer

Thank you Megan. I am guilty of the lumping , but there is some common ground. O course the idealism of youth should not be dismissed out of hand and the bailouts left a lot of Americans shaking our heads from all sides of the political spectrum. Got arrested myself in the day for protesting Richard M Nixon and got deported from Canada once for starting a brawl/riot in Montreal (nothing to do with politics, just shouted in English the "French are pigs" and then shouted in French "the English suck" which started a melee on a rather pleasant train ride). The ensuing investigation by the Mounties had the bloodied passengers pointing fingers at me when asked who started this, but I digress. I know many folks that I would lump as libheads who share many of my concerns: i.e. public education, household and national debt, safety of the food chain, and basically get turned off by the whole political process and wear the old "Don't Tread on Me" flag on their hearts, not on bummer stickers. The people on the streets are not really protestors, they are occupiers. Not to the level of the 60's sit ins in the Dean's office, but the same idea. Heck, my cousin was one of those long haired freaky dudes that got dragged away in handcuffs for occupying the dean's office and now works for Macys in corporate. I just wish they knew that Wall Street is the wrong place to occupy. Goldman Sacks has move to Jersey, and most of the Big Boys have moved uptown to the "new financial center" to join the likes of JP Morgan. But, your points are taken Megan. Keeping an open mind never hurts and a closed mind is a bar to all learning.

Mikey McD

Most free thinking folks (left and right) understand the problems. However the OWS crowd is begging for MORE government, MORE entitlements, MORE regulations, MORE taxes on the rich... (with a tiny fraction in the End the Fed corner). The OWS crowd (co-opted by special interest labor unions) are begging for the government to use FORCE to attain equality (equality through FORCE = fascism). FORCE is not the answer and I pray it doesn't come to that.

Mikey McD

p.s. Obama started another war yesterday in Africa and here I thought unconstitutional wars were not en vogue anymore. my bad.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/96706.html

Mike Thornton

Apparently there are some "Tea Party" folks who don't agree with (all 8 of you) self appointed arbiters of what is good, patriotic and Holy, when it comes to OWS.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/14/tea-party-co-founded-expresses-support-for-occupy-wall-street/

I have to admit that I now have some hope! Before I was basing my opinion(s) on baggerism based on what I read here. But it's clear that for folks who actually get out in the world (even Tea Party people) a broader vision is alive and well!

George Rebane

Re Mikey's 1013am - I tried unsuccessfully to comment on ToddJ's Sierra Dragon's Breath that our interest in helping the Ugandans with their war against the 400 some thugs might have something to do with maintaining a little-reported Predator base in that country. Just for giggles, draw a 500 mile radius circle around Uganda.

George Rebane

Re MikeT's 1025am - It appears that word is getting out that the tea party movement is not homogenous as is often claimed by the left. As a member of the Tea Party Patriots, I have no idea who this "Tea Party co-founder" is, nor do I have to know. Nevertheless, more power to him as long as he keeps pushing the principles that unite all tea party factions - limited government, constitutionality, capitalism, and individual liberties.

Ben Emery

George,
Your disdain for working class/ poor people continues, it is really sad.

Occupy Wall St is about corruption, period. The term taxation without representation is ringing very true these days, except for those in the top 1%. Their mantra is to much taxation with all the representation.

There was a private/ public contract the lifted all boats. It used to be private sector that paid workers enough for a middle class lifestyle. It used to be private sector that had pensions. It used to be private sector that provided health insurance. During the time of this public/ private sector contract industry was very profitable but they decided it wasn't enough and broke free of the contract. As these things were no longer part of the public/ private contract people went to the credit card to continue the lifestyle they grew accustom to living. Why wouldn't we assume that we would be fine in the long run? We were told that Trickle Down and Free Trade would be great policies for all boats to rise once again. What many of us knew and the rest of the nation has now found out, these policies benefit a very small wealthy/ transnational corporations. Hence the growing inequality and increasing corruption of our government. This equates to more money being invested into political parties, which translates into a rigged social/ economic system.

Everyone likes to focus on the public debt but the private debt of the US is even bigger which led directly to the public debt.

As wages went stagnant and benefits disappeared private debt increased dramatically. When private debt was no longer a choice the government stepped in to try and fill in the holes left behind, which has skyrocketed the national debt. Both of these things are directly linked Free Trade and the decent wages leaving our nation.

George Rebane

BenE - we must have different definitions for 'disdain'. I have only characterized correctly the parameters that define the competitiveness of our workforce in the global labor markets. Progressive politicians (you included?) have chosen to bury this critical issue and cover it with a morass of populist demagoguery that favors the performance ignoring unions. More here -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203914304576626821782577248.html?mod=ITP_opinion_2

"Occupy Wall St is about corruption, period." is IMHO beyond naive.

Mikey McD

Ben, Rebane is fighting for every class of human through peace, voluntary cooperation and freedom (while you advocate the use of force on one class or another).

How can the 45% who don't pay any income tax complain about 'taxation without representation?" LOL.

As an entrepreneur I can attest to the fact that government taxes and regulations and failed public education have done more to discourage employee benefits than any other factor.

The contract you speak of never existed... employers pay the bare minimum to keep good employees... it was ever thus.

Todd Juvinall

George, I can't figure out why you could not post a comment. I have all the boxes checked in the Blogger. Could you please experiment with each of the selections with which you an post? I want to get this narrowed down. I use Firefox as my browser so maybe it is a browser issue? I am perplexed.

Russ Steele

Megan,

How would you feel if the Occupy Wall Street were to take this path reported by Reuters?

Hundreds of hooded demonstrators clashed with [Italian] police in some of the worst violence in the Italian capital for years on Saturday, setting cars on fire and breaking shop and bank windows.
Police repeatedly fired teargas and water cannons in attempts to disperse them but the clashes with hard-core demonstrators continued hours after tens of thousands of people in Rome joined a global "day of rage" against bankers and politicians.

ooo

The violence at times resembled urban guerrilla warfare as protesters hurled rocks, bottles and fireworks at police, who responded by repeatedly charging the demonstrators.

I perdict that this is where these demonstration are headed. There has to be a reason for declaring marshal law if it becomes clear that Obama and the Senate Democrats are going down in a landslide. The left will be staring into the face of defeat and they are not going down without a fight. There will be blood in the streets.

Mike Thornton

Once again the hypocrisy abounds.
When it's regressives running around with guns threatening "2nd Amendment Solutions" the wingnuts beat their chest and talk about freedom and The Constitution, but when it comes to the working class demanding that the Wall Street crooks be held to account, it become dangerous anarchy.

Paul Emery

Russ

Russ

You're so dramatic. You should be a Hollywood scriptwriter.

This is the story, correct me if I'm wrong. The demonstrators, who are funded by old Communist money lie in wait and are ready to turn violent when Obama and the Dems go down to defeat allowing Obama to declare martial law and prevent a Republican takeover. You should copyright that one.

George Rebane

MikeT - who are these threatening "regressives" and the chest-beating "wingnuts"? Do they gather in the thousands on the streets of the world's cities? Are they confronting platoons of helmeted and shielded riot police? Is there a cry from them to bring down sitting governments, for "fundamental transformation", for "revolutions"?

Mike Thornton

You know who they are George!
You and the rest of the "Gang of 8" are constantly sining their praises.
I think the real story is that, as you correctly point out, there are (actually tens if not hundreds) of thousands of people in the streets of the worlds cities. Far more than was ever mustered by the Tea Bag Nation.
Those platoons of helmeted and shielded riot police are their to protect who, from who?
Every so often a little "fundamental transformation" is called for.
That's what the "Founding Fathers" did, remember?
Don't worry, if things get really bad, Hospitality House has a new shelter. I'm sure they'll make room for the RR crew if ya need it!

Mike Thornton

Paul:
They ALWAYS have a dark "conspiracy" to rally fear and hate around!

Paul Emery


Can any freedom loving American deny the patriotism in this?

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all."


Mike Thornton

Oh, and by the way, the OWS groups have told organizations like Move On and others that they don't want anything to do with supporting Obama or Democrats!

D. King

As to the WSJ link George, we have changed our hiring practices. We didn't become more stupider. We stopped training our own engineers (in company). At Hughes we had the Advanced Technical Education Program (ATEP). When Raytheon bought Hughes from GM they shut this program down and hired only degreed engineers. Instant shortage; and then the whining began for cheap foreign engineers. Don’t get me started on Affirmative Action and what that did; well, let’s just say it exacerbated the problem.

Water, water, every where,

And all the boards did shrink;

Water, water, every where,

Nor any drop to drink.

Mike Thornton

I wondered how long it would be before you guys went with the "it's the Black's fault"
It never seems to take too long for that to happen here!

George Rebane

MikeT, my 1159am question was not rhetorical; I truly don't know who they are. And most certainly, if there is any symmetry to your argument, then these thousands of "guns threatening regressives" have also eluded the lamestream who would love nothing better than to expose any violent tendencies from the right or the tea party factions.

And the numbers - you may want to check the numbers that total the tea parties vs the OWS numbers that have shown themselves on American streets. Nevertheless, I do believe that OWS may be the next best recruiting operation that the tea parties will see in 2012. We may even get some of the OWS folks that Megan (703am) has described above. These people will definitely eschew the corrupt union organizers and the Soros front organizations like moveon.

Brad Croul

TEA and OWS protestations are both about reform. I think it is a mistake to label and pigeonhole these groups just because of some fear that you might be thought of as a some kind of a "traitor" to your political party if you agree with some of their ideas. That would be kind of sad because neither of these movements are just left, or right.

There are finge wingnuts using both TEA and OWS movements as platforms to further their own agendas.

Even if you think the TEA is rightwing and OWS is leftwing, it pretty much means that both sides of the isles in Congress better wake up and make some changes because both sides are being put on notice that "business as usual" is not good enough.

RL Crabb

Mike T....Your diatribes are getting as tiresome as those from the fright-wingers. Having spent a good deal of time around both sides of this ongoing spewing, I can safely say that there are elements of truth in what is being said, but it is drowned out by the endless and brainless stereotyping.

You Yankee Doodle revolutionaries should really step back and think about where this is all headed.

D. King

OK Mike,

Here you go, you and Paul can pull out your tatty raciest card out again and instead of fixing the problem YOU and your ilk created, you can pretend you're immune. YOU ARE NOT!

OWS protesters need to focus their anger here; don't you agree?

Megan, have you and your friends seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

RL Crabb

Good video, Dave, although I'd argue that deregulating the banks and passing too many lop-sided free trade deals by "well-meaning" Republicans have as much of the blame to bear.

Many decades ago, I said to myself, "Bob, with your luck, the day after you become a millionaire, the world will end."

I didn't become a millionaire, but I just managed to pay off my house after passing on the obviously crooked sub-prime mortgage fiasco. I guess that will have to do in this era of lowered expectations.

George Rebane

The banks were deregulated by the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 that did away with restrictions on the integration of banking, insurance and stock trading imposed by the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, one of the central pillars of Roosevelt's New Deal. Under the old law, banks, brokerages and insurance companies were effectively barred from entering each others' industries, and investment banking and commercial banking were separated.

This law was forged in the fall of 1999 between the Democratic administration of Bill Clinton and congressional Republicans. It allowed lending and investing functions to merge under a single roof, and made legal fast and loose investments by 'bankers' using other people's money. Because of the lack of feedback and oversight, I opposed it.

Megan

A lot happens on this blog in a few hours. I just wanted to clarify that I don’t deny OWS has been co-opted by George Soros and his ilk. What I’m trying to convey is that if we could quit writing people off from the start WE might be able to co-opt more effectively. Why should the Lefties be the only ones educating the dissatisfied masses? We have the answers to fix education, corruption on Wall Street and in government, unemployment, healthcare, and irritating, stifling, soul-sucking bureaucracy. That should and does resonate with honest, thinking people... we need to recognize allies IMMEDIATELY when we meet them and share what we know.
The vast majority of people want to make it on their own, but for young people today it seems impossible. The barriers to entry alone are enough to send any upright citizen crying to the welfare office. We've been told all our lives that higher education is the key to happiness and wealth, and now we have our four year degrees and no job prospects, no skills and no hope for the future. Moms are tired of being treated like cattle. In everything we do with our kids we have the government whispering in our ears "your preschooler is operating his bicycle illegally, this blood test is mandated by state law, your kindergartner won't be a good citizen unless he understands homosexuality. We told you already not to feed your kid potato chips. Weren't you watching TV last night?"
Go hug a hippy! Take the time to make friends with young, dissatisfied, hopeless young people and teach them something valuable before George Soros teaches them to be slaves to their government.

bill tozer

Teaching/making friends with the young people is admirable, all is not lost. My daughter was (and still is) all peace, love, and everybody should be happy until she got her first paycheck...She was screaming bloody murder when she saw how much they took out in taxes. She actually thought they made a gross mistake! Not being known for being subtle , I told her that's cause she has to pay for roads, blah, blah, blah, and all her low life buddies that play guitar, go to the river and collect food stamps. Holy smokes, she became hard core for awhile there. Informing the occupiers that instead of protesting the high cost of higher education on the streets they should take it to the universities where their professors' salaries have shot up since 2008, but that won't be popular with their labor movement guardians. They should be at Chris Dodd's or Barney Frank's office, but that would be embarrassing for the distinguished Senators and the young people would run the risk of being labeled homophobic. They should be in front of Congress and The White House with signs, not in some little private park trampling the pretty flowers. It is downright frustration and hopelessness that is driving them (at first). They see a world where "its not fair". Nobody tells them there is mega hope out there and you gotta grab the bull by the horns and achieve just a good life. But, it will take years to get the dirt out of their heads after being told that America is bad, the game is rigged, and you are nothing, nobody, and will never be without outside intervention. They have been told to look at the problems instead of focusing on what they can do within themselves and what they can do to change themselves to be what they want to be. They have never been told "who cares what the next fellow does or if the game is rigged...focus on your dreams, your life, adapt and you can do it and later share your experience and blessings with your fellow man if so inclined. We can peddle hope to the ones losing hope. We can peddle dignity to the ones feeling adrift. As they are occupying the trampled flowers, immigrants are starting businesses or being hired by Silicon Valley and are full of hope. We need to feed them hope, not despair and hopelessness as our progressive friends do.

Walt

Mr. C.. Could it be that they are just pointing out "IF"?
It might be a little helpful to just which blogs your referring too.
But the videos coming from these " fine upstanding members of society" will calls for violence to push their message if they don't get their way. ( what ever that really means)
But from what I gather from my travels through the net, I don't find any " radical right" that has any real serious threats of going on a shooting rampage of unarmed idiots.Like I said. "I" haven't seen that.If you have please give me an example. Because that is not acceptable to me and most other people. But I will not say that attitudes like that don't exist either. ( I just haven't seen it.) A lot of sarcastic remarks are another thing. I believe I can tell the difference.

But I will say this. "IF" the radicalized followers of say,,Van Jones,( just for example) do go ballistic and try an armed uprising,( which seems to be the way the wind is blowing at this point in time) The "good ol' boy" ( as some would call them) will be there if needed. Yes,, that's what the 2ND amendment is there for. To protect this nation from enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. Those of us that have taken an oath that happen to contain " protect this nation from enemies foreign and domestic" will honor that to the day we die.
The 2ND amendments isn't there to let only hunters and target shooters have fun on week ends.

Russ Steele

Oh My, the Commies and Nazis are all in on Occupy Wall Street!

The American Nazi Party likes what it sees. Today the American Nazi Party released a statement in support of Occupy Wall Street movement.

The Communist Party USA: This is an exciting time! Thousands of mainly young people have been occupying Wall Street for three weeks already, and the “Occupy Movement” has spread to more than 200 other cities. On Oct. 6 the actions spread to our nation’s capital.

ooo

Southern California Party leader Arturo Cambron shared how the CPUSA and Young Communist League (YCL) are working in “Occupy Los Angeles.” in a teleconference on October 11th.

Paul Emery

Russ
Yes the Commies are everywhere, just like in the good old days. There's nothing better for religion than a good healthy devil. It gives you something to write about other than the real issues.

Walt

Al Qaeda has voiced support too Russ. You know,, the terrorists we have been fighting? Remember them??

Walt

So this is how our flag is respected. And some on the Left have said my helmet is a desecration? Good try. Take off your rose colored glasses.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/member-occupy-wall-st-movement-walks-over-u-photo-210130472.html

George Rebane

PaulE 534pm - sounds like the media pundits are again discounting the influence of the radicals like they did in 1948 when the Iron Curtain went up. History shows how our government was thoroughly infiltrated by communists bent on the nation's downfall. But today there is nothing to worry about, Obama's in charge with his centrist troops in the administration. (Note last night's extended KVMR favorable coverage of the NY OWS with no call for another view.) Anyone pointing out the polyglot of anti-American extremists who have endorsed/joined the OWS are just hare-brained alarmists. A little kumbayah lullaby, turn out the lights, and back to sleep.

bill tozer

My, my, the kooks are unleashed now. This current venting of unrest was not caused by capitalism, rather it was caused by lack of capitalism. Years of over regulation have sucked all the air out of the room. Years of unfunded gov't pensions and liabilities have left us straddled with massive debts. Banks were put through Timmy's Stress test and told to build up cash reserves and now some are actually whining the banks are sitting on cash and not lending. Many corporations were caught off guard by the economic downturn and learned to be more efficient and leaner as they build up their cash reserves to cushion them against uncertain times. I call that an emergency fund. The Administration dumped 1.2 billion to a solar company (SunPower) and proudly proclaims that 1.2 billion along with 350 construction jobs were needed to create 10-15 jobs (that's right: 15 not 150, not 1,500, not 11,500, but TEN to FIFTEEN permanent jobs). I say protest government and change government. Meanwhile, that evil thieving yellow bellied big business Apple Computer could not have made it without funding from greedy ole Wall Street. Apple is so greedy they stole our money as they pre-sold 200,000 new I-phones in a 12 hour period without one penny from gov't. Not even a gov't training program. The USSR created jobs. Example is underwear factories. Had one factory exclusively for women's underwear, one factory for mens' underwear. Each factory produced an equal quantity of undies per gov't regulation. Problem is that women buy 4-6x more undies than men. Created a shortage of women's panties, and an over supply of mens' briefs. But it was FAIR, created jobs, and that business model was 100% government conceived and controlled and not motivated by (gasp) profit or greed. What ever happened to the USSR? Haven't see their teams in the Olympics lately. Oh well, Occupy Wall Street!

Walt

My mistake,,,( been a long day.) My above comment should say Paul.
NOT Russ. I humbly apologize.

Russ Steele

Walt,

Apology accepted.

Paul,

And the real issues are? I am sure the protestors would like to know, most of them seem to be unsure why they are there.

Brad Croul

Commies, Nazis, TEA patriots, border Minutemen, public demonstrations, flag walkers: ain't democracy and free speech grand?

bill tozer

This is indeed good news for Nevada City and the Nevada City Council. The time may be perfect to start that new community social conscious non-bank bank. Banks are bad, non-bank banks are good. Now, as soon as Nevada City coughs up a quarter million, the non-bank bank will reveal more info and will avoid the mistakes Citizens Bank did by loaning to local businesses and supporting local non profits. Our new non bank bank will be Nevada City friendly, investing non money tokens in sustainable green jobs like....er....like a bio mass plant off Broad Street and a worm farm perhaps. The time is ripe!!

Mike Thornton

You know, Bob. I think I'll put my lot in with these folks.

http://yubanet.com/usa/From-Tahrir-Square-to-Times-Square-Mass-Protests-Erupt-in-Over-1-500-Cities-Worldwide_printer.php

You can roll with the "Gang of 8" if that's your preference.

And frankly, when it comes to any discussion here, I'll worry about the tone of my "diatribes" (and frankly what you think of them) when these guys start being concerned about the way they talk to other people. It never ceases to amaze me, that as long as it's a wingnut flapping their gums, they can say whatever they want about anybody, no matter how hurtful or degrading and even things that are just flat out lies. That somehow always seems to be OK. But let someone start treating them the way they treat others and all of a sudden people find it inappropriate or "tedious".

Walt

Lies?? Care to back that up with a little facts, and not the usual revisionism? As for " the way they talk to other people" are you serious? LOL All we do is point out the crap you subscribe to, and have no problem backing them up with facts that are quit easy to find. Just like these useful nuts down on Wall St. they need to be at the Capital, and in front of the White House. Wall St. is only playing by the rules the financial rapists wrote into law.
The elected LIBS know their days are numbered, and they want to take the rest of the nation with them. Crony capitalism at it's finest.
So how far into your reply will start to blame Bush? Forget it. The statute of limitations ran out a LONG time ago. "O" and the Progressives OWN THIS.

Larry Wirth

Megaqn, if you have a four-year degree and no skills, you have been doing something wrong.

When as an Army reservist I was recalled in 1968, the assignment seargent at Ft. Knox informerd me that my military occupational specialty no longer existed. That meant infantry.

I said "wait a minute, I have three and a half years of college."

He responded that he "didn't give a damn about that, whad did I know how to do?"

I said I could type and he sent me to take a company clerk job with the 3rd Artillery. Turned out they needed a batallion clerk and I had my first job working for a Colonel.

That led to Berlin Brigade and a pleasant year in Europe instead of Vietnam.

RL Crabb

Mike, during the NH2020 debacle, I heard things come from the mouths of both sides that made my skin crawl. I don't have any love for either side, because the problems we face today come from the failure of Democrats (or progressives) and Republicans to see the forest for the trees.

Politics is about reasonable people finding reasonable solutions. The failure of politics is what led to civil war. Reason has left the room.

And Walt, I can't point to a particular blog for the implied violence I hear. Mostly, I find it in the comments of sock puppets in response. It's out there if you really look.

Mike Thornton

While in general I agree with you Bob, you and I both know that these folks have no intention of being reasonable or compromising in any way whatsoever.
So when you say the types of things you're saying, what it really boils down to is give them more of what they want. And to that I not only say "No!", But "Hell No!"

Mike Thornton

Gee Walt, should we stop blaming Hitler for the Holocaust?
I mean enough time has past that it's gotta be somebody else at fault by now, right?
Maybe Merkle, or even Obama?
Or do actions have consequences and the people who committed those actions remain responsible for what they did or didn't do?

RL Crabb

Mike, there's your problem. If both sides are saying "Hell, no!", then I guess the answer is hell.

George Rebane

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but were not the comments in this comment stream about the topics of my post, and not about vilifying other commenters until Mike Thornton again joined us?

Mike Thornton

No, it's not my problem, Bob.
Because implicit in what you're saying is that if they won't compromise, then I should.
Which really means give them what they want.
If that's what you want to do, go right ahead. But I've had enough and (in my opinion) so has the country and the world.

Steve Enos

Georege posted...

"Please correct me if I'm wrong, but were not the comments in this comment stream about the topics of my post, and not about vilifying other commenters until Mike Thornton again joined us?"

George the personal BS started with your snide, needless, personal post about Reinette Senum maybe going to NYC in your 14 October 2011 at 04:44 PM post.

George you are the one that first started making needless, personal snipes.

Brad Croul

I was reading the front page of americannazipary.com and it really seems to meld the ideals of both the NeoCons and the OWS sympathizers, decrying both "an estimated 20 MILLION brown, mestizo ILLEGAL ALIENS who have INVADED OUR NATION", and the "evil, corrupt Judeo-Capitalist system - where basically 3% of the population, control 85% of the nation's wealth".

Something for everybody in the ANP.

Russ Steele

Roger Simon at the PJ Tatler has some thought in the progress of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations:

They gave a demonstration on Wall Street Saturday and nobody came! Five thousand demonstrators (high estimate) in New York? The population of the metro area approaches 19 million. You get more people than that for bocce in Battery Park. How many are standing on line for pizza at Ray’s? Attendance at the US Tennis Open – supposedly a secondary sport – draws over seven hundred thousand fans.

So what’s up with this OccupyWallStreet nonsense and who’s trying to promote this trivial event? The usual suspects in the reactionary media along with various hustlers (race and union) and a sprinkling of the leftover acid damaged. That’s about it.

Final question. What percentage of that five thousand are hardcore anti-Semites? Why don’t you answer that one, Mayor Bloomberg?

George Rebane

Re SteveE 846am - Reinette Senum is a public person whose NYC trip was publicized in The Union. For those who subscribe to SteveE's logic, RR serves as a vehicle for my commentary on subjects I choose, and a venue for readers to discuss and comment on those subjects and such derivatives as may arise. An evolved policy here is that when some readers don't understand this and start carping about other commenters or me, I reserve the right to edit/omit their comments.

Mike Thornton

No the attacks started long, long ago and they go on here every day, all the time.
None of the wingnuts ever complain about it, as long as the targets are people and groups they don't like. It's only when someone stands up that they start freaking out.

Walt

Ya , Mike do tell us about "Poor me" diatribe when it comes to unpeeling of Leftist ideals.( yes I do return fire on occation) I know I have a great big target on my back, and personal shots come my way continuously, and often. But I can brush them aside without a second thought. Maybe because the ones taking those potshots can't shoot straight, and can't hit the broad side of a barn with a scatter gun.( figuratively speaking of course. It seems we have to add this disclaimer, because a certain persuasion of people take things WAY too literally)

George Rebane

Re MikeT 1206pm - Maybe the nuance missed here is that of confusing the attribution with the attributor. If A attributes something, with which B disagrees, to C, then a civil response would be for B to contend the attribution on its merits instead of attacking the attributor A. And if it is still necessary to include the progenitor of the attribution in the contention, then a more sophisticated way would be to bring in the inferred category or class in which A's membership is presumed.

Mike Thornton

Jesus, George, I'm sorry, but does this come under the heading of "If you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffle em with BS"?
The point is really simple. If you analyze the comments mad on your website, you can't help but find that the vast majority of wingnut comments are based upon denigrating some individual and/or group. It is the staple ingredient of what you guys do here, every day.
What's amazing is how you keep trying to obfuscate the issue. You deny blatant reality and fact, while at the same time pontificating that you have a clear view of the world and what should be done about all manner of important topics!

George Rebane

MikeT, you are again becoming tiresome. RR is simply outside your ken, but I know another blog that welcomes your kind of thinking. Give that a try, or behave yourself.

Paul Emery

George writes
"History shows how our government was thoroughly infiltrated by communists bent on the nation's downfall."

Really? Can you point me to the source of that statement?
It sounds like you believed McCarthy, who destroyed the lives of many decent patriotic Americans with his campaign of lies and fear in one of the darkest moments in American history.

And equating the leaders of the OCW movement with Stalin in 1948 makes me wonder if your deductive reasoning is still on vacation.

"sounds like the media pundits are again discounting the influence of the radicals like they did in 1948 when the Iron Curtain went up."

D. King

RL Crabb | 15 October 2011 at 01:43 PM

"Republicans have as much of the blame to bear."

Bob,

Agreed.

My problem is with know nothing politicians and bureaucrats making ill informed decisions that become law and make problems worse.
Example: Banning DDT.
That one mistake is still killing African and Asian children. And they call us racist; go figure.
Another big arrogant flub by the no nothings far removed from reality, is UNICEF's international adoption ban.

This video explains it better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWrdz-Aqw-U

Two thousand page bills that no one reads but are passed into law, seems to be the new normal.
Pointing to the candy cane Nordic village counties for inspiration seems at best, naive.

I’m glad to see the left emboldened, because as they expose who they are and what they want, they are going to receive the rebuke that previously they have been able to hide from.

Exit Question: Why is the left so afraid to tell us their naked vision?

Russ Steele

According to the Financial Times: Obama offers more support for protesters

Barack Obama, US president, offered more support for protesters against the global financial system after a weekend of demonstrations in cities around the world, but called on them not to “demonise” those who worked on Wall Street.

On Sunday, Mr Obama honoured Martin Luther King at a dedication to a new memorial on National Mall in Washington. Referring to protests that have spread from Wall Street to London, Rome and elsewhere, Mr Obama said: “Dr King would want us to challenge the excesses of Wall Street without demonising those who work there.” Mr Obama had previously said the protests “express the frustration” of ordinary Americans with the financial sector.

Read More HERE.

George Rebane

PaulE 240pm - At times you also amaze me as a journalist and professional newsman. That McCarthy has been vilified for his methods may deserve some credit. But subsequent to the fall of the USSR and release of the Verona files, many books about the truth of McCarthy's message (and more) have now been written. To the detriment of our uneducated youth, the American left, of which you are a part, continues to deny any such involvement of the Soviet espionage program in post-war American government. I cannot conceive of any information that you would accept to give truth to the exhaustive Soviet records on the matter. So let me just get you started with this little piece from Brown University; you can google the rest to the extent that you are interested.
http://thebrownspectator.com/cold-war-america-communist-subversion/

Although not as sharp as in years gone by, my deductive reasoning does not get a vacation.

stevenfrisch

George the point that some Americans were indeed communist subversives does not give you, or anyone else, carte blanche to infer, or clearly state, that anyone espousing any of the views that known, or at the time unknown, communists espoused is de facto a communist. This is what is clearly know as a logical fallacy (or mistake in reasoning to make it clear to Todd), a point I have made here on several occasions.

I say this as someone who has not only read the Verona papers, but has read several recent histories of the cold war, and agree that the incidents of communist infiltration were greater than many originally thought, although still substantively less, and less influential, than Tail Gunner Joe claimed. (Reading and quoting sources would of course be a practice that Todd would describe as elitist intellectualism, an those here would let stand).

It is entirely true that many Americans came to the same conclusions on some issues that some communists did by dint of their unique American experience, not Marxist propaganda.

As aptly and slyly pointed out by Brad above, the adoption of this logical fallacy by regular posters here leaves each of you who adopts it open to the charge that since you share some views common with the American Nazi Party or the Ku Klux Klan (or in the case of Greg the Tea Party), you are Nazi's or Klansmen or imbibers in copious quantities of Tea.

It is my frustration over your inability to enforce any sense of discipline over this practice that has led me to make just such charges against you and your posters, in the hope that you would see the folly of your ways. However, as Mike points out, old dogs do not learn new tricks, and you will never see the folly of your ways.

That is why this blog is really nothing more than infantile self-gratification, a practice I have been guilty of in my own right (as has Paul, Mike, and Mr. Enos), and one which I pledge to engage in less as my moral sensibilities about your inconsistencies are let go, safe in the knowledge that you and you ken actually don'i influence anyone of substance in our county. You are really just like cats looking in a mirror, saying, "look at that beautiful creature"

Greg Goodknight

Steve is engaged in some heavy duty projection today... I guess it's a slow day in Mongolia.

Todd Juvinall

Using he failed logic of Friesch who apparently has no deductive capability he would have us believe the theft of the science to build an atom bomb by a few communist spies was no big deal because there were only a few of them. He is now spending taxpayers money to visit a country, China, who was given complex electronic information for guidance systems in rockets. Their spies, few in number, were able to get this information and then turn it into a missile which could reach America. (they are using it to do space shots now, practice I guess). So, since Friech appears to be trusting the commies so much I would suggest he is either a sympathizer or stupid. Of course he read the Verona Papers, along with the Valachi Papers and the Lost Papers of Gjin and every other publication ever produced on earth (he claims of course). But to read the disaffected commies who confirmed the presence of so many commies here as no big deal, I would suggest the amount of Friech's reading has no bearing on his comprehensive abilities.

Todd Juvinall

Oh, and I truly am surprised by PaulE's ignorance of the information released from the archives of the KGB after the fall of the USSR regarding commie infiltration. Hell, I knew it for goodness sakes and I am not a "journalist" like Paul supposedly is.

George Rebane

SteveF 549pm - I believe you have again misread these posts and comments. Without agreeing with your analysis, logically or illogically where did I make the 'communist claims' that you attribute to me?

And now that you've identified RR as "nothing more than infantile self-gratification", I presume this departure, in your ongoing series of departures, will provide us respite of a bit longer duration than those in the recent past. Nevertheless, your assessments and views will continue to be welcomed whenever you find it convenient to again grace these pages.

George Rebane

A correspondent sent this link to a YouTube video that portrays the description of how communism will in the long term subvert a nation-state like the US. It is explained in an interview with a defected KGB operative taped some years ago. The method was worked out during the Soviet expansion period from 1923 to the beginning of WW2, and then applied ruthlessly after WW2 in eastern Europe and Asia during the Cold War. It is worth watching, and noting especially what is also the intended (and demonstrated) fate of the socialist sympathizers who diligently worked to bring about fundamental transformation in their respective countries. By 1950, the program described was known to all east European refugees in post-war displaced persons camps and to America's leadership.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Iz3VjoHXLA

Russ Steele

Worry not, Steven has just gone off to charge his intellectual capacitor after running out of any fresh arguments to counter the truth. He will be back, like bugs to a light in the night, he knows that are many readers who lurk here and are soaking up the truths found at RR.

He is compelled to skew our frame of reference and obscure those truths, as it is his mission to obscure and conceal. After recharging his intellectual capacitor he will return. Not once in the past has he failed to return after swearing off any future participation at Ruminations. Yet he was here today, and will return once again. Mark my words.

Greg Goodknight

George, Frisch is doing just what "Tail Gunner Joe" was so good at. Making the inferences he wants to believe on the most slender of premises.


Todd Juvinall

Frisech is out of his league here. George and Greg are too smart for him and e lashes out. Hell, maybe I am even smarter than Freisch. LOL.

Walt

Well it's all over the news pages today,, ( better not name anyone in particular, they might get a little upset and call it a personal attack)

The Commie, party the Nazi party and even the country where "He who shall not be named" is said to be at, are right in there with the OWS crowd. Even the people we have been at war with for the past decade have voiced support.

So is this some of the "lies" we (I) have been accused of saying?

Walt

OK,our OWS supporters,, are these groups really someone YOU want to be associated with? Let alone PUBLICLLY? Not ME!!

Russ Steele

China supports Occupy Wall Street according to an AP Report:

"China's foreign ministry said Monday the Occupy Wall Street movement highlights issues that are worth considering, but that debates generated by the protests should promote global economic growth."

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