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22 October 2011

Comments

Steve Enos

Looks like the OWS movment has some on the right very scared.

Michael Anderson

I haven't heard anyone say that OWS is "just like the Tea Party movement." It's pretty clear that the Tea Party is comprised of mostly people who vote for Republican candidates and OWS protesters are people who mostly vote for Democrats.

But there are large percentages of voters in both movements who are no longer happy with their given political party. And their disaffection is remarkably similar: they say their political leaders don't listen to them, that they bail out banks "too big to fail" but keep stickin' it to the little guy, and that our state and federal gov'ts are completely dysfunctional.

I'm not sure what the point is of trying to emphasize the differences. Isn't it enough that both groups are sick to death of Wall Street and K Street running a rigged economic system into the ground?

George Rebane

Correctamundo SteveE.

MichaelA - the imputed similarity is that both movements consist of people who are pretty much the same in what values they hold, mores they practice, and outlook they have for proper governance. They do share the belief that their respective electeds have forsaken them, and therefore their desired form of government is broken. But there the similarities end - who they are and what they want puts them poles apart.

Russ Steele

Michael, Will these quote do the job:

• Vice President Joe Biden today likened the Occupy Wall Street protests to expressions of grassroots frustration by members of the Tea Party.

• The president also compares the protesters to the Tea Party. “In some ways, they’re not that different from some of the protests that we saw coming from the Tea Party,” Obama says.

But then again we have to deal with reality. The OWS's actions speak much louder than their words:

• In Cleveland they’re investigating a kidnapping and rape at OWS there.

• In Atlanta, the OWS protesters stormed a hospital.

• An OWS protester in Seattle was arrested for exposing himself to children.

• They’re talking about plans to disrupt the World Series.

• There is evidence of anti-Semitism.

• And thievery is rampant within the OWS camps.

I did not hear or read that the Tea Party Patriots had expressed any of these thoughts or have taken similar actions. While both are dissatisfied with their government leaders, that is were the similarities end. The OWS movement wants to destroy the government and the TPP wants to change the government, which they did in 2010 is a very constructive way. OWS is not going to change anything, other than provide more motivation for the uncommitted to join the Tea Party.

George Rebane

Russ, I agree about the OWS driving up Tea Party memberships, but I do think that the OWS people have an opportunity to change things for the worse. The Republicans more or less would like to ignore the Tea Partiers because they don't like their feet held to the fire. The Democrats (recall I am calling them Obama demonstrations cum riots) are promoting these gatherings and what they are turning into, because OWS attracts and energizes the kinds of voters that their entire socialist pathway depends on and needs in the voting booths in 2012. Meanwhile, their fellow travelers in the media and on pages like these continue to promote them, give them soft-fringed ideals, and ignore any of their lawlessness, violence, and calls to revolution.

RL Crabb

In Italy, the protests were going fairly well until a large group of masked anarchists stormed through on a path of destruction that eventually led to fighting between the peaceful protesters and the violent fringe. Meanwhile, Willie (Da Mayor) Brown noted in his SF Gate piece that the local protest was "the smelliest" he had ever attended and said a homeless man told him the protesters were giving the neighborhood a bad name.

The Dems had better be careful hitching their wagon to this star. Some of these unwashed will try to occupy their ramparts until physically removed so they can scream about "police brutality". The Dems tried this forty years ago, and the result was a forty-nine state sweep by Dickie Nixon, even after events like Kent State.

Todd Juvinall

Europe is in need of something to stop the boredom of socialism. Isn't it interesting that people are PO'd there enough to commit violence because they have too much PC? More freedom, not less may be beneficial to all those Europeans.

Dixon Cruickshank

nice post RL

bill tozer

Ah shucks you guys, leave them street campers alone. After all, they are 99% of the problem so ya gotta feel sorry for them. Like, do you know how hard it is to charge your i-phone on the streets? It ain't easy I tell ya, it ain't bloody easy. Can't even get real good sex unless you have a tent. What gives with that? Those rich little Daddy's girls won't share their tents with me. How mean and self centered of them. Future imperialists they are. But, Mr. Crabb had it right. When the Dems joined hands with the amazing Chicago Seven in 68, Richard M. Nixon went from zero to hero. Its taken 40 years for the Dems to shake the ingrained label of being soft on crime, weak on National Security, and flower children. May not be fair or accurate, but read em and weep. Best thing that could ever happen to Obama's challenger (whomever that might be) is for Joe Biden to keep talking and to have Nancy and Harry and Barry welcome the occupiers into the fold. Americans hate mobs and mob violence and mob mentalities. The gift that keeps on giving.

RL Crabb

Yeah, Bill, the Republicans are going to need all the help they can get, given the crew of neanderthals presently vying for the opportunity to lead us into the future. After seeing the audience boo an individual who volunteered to protect our sorry asses from the Moozlims just because he's gay, or cheer at the hypothetical prospect of someone dying without health insurance, these are not values that I am looking for.

It's a pretty sorry state of affairs when the best outcome a moderate can look forward to is reelecting an inept leftist President with an insane right wing congress.

Russ Steele

RL,

You paint with too broad a brush. "seeing the audience boo an individual who volunteered to protect our sorry asses" There were 5,000 people in the room and only 2-3 at the most booed. So, you are willing to let 2 -3 people speak for the other 5,000. I thought you were smarter than that.

Todd Juvinall

Divided government ain't that bad. I think a twinkie could beat O anyway.

Russ Steele

This is one view of the OWS from our local left"

This area traditionally has been highly conservative, but it is becoming more “purple.” In our towns, at least in the most simplistic sense, the Occupy Wall Street movements represents the more “purple” side, while the tea party represents what has been the traditional political and economic center. The tea party here is not “new.”

My question is, does the OWS really represent those who decline to state their political affilation, the purple in our community? Does the Tea Party represent the "old order?" Your thoughts?

Russ Steele

Glenn Reynolds at the Instapundit shares some thoughts on the OWS Movement.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE #OCCUPY MOVEMENT — NO EXIT STRATEGY:

“You come, you conquer, and then time passes, protesters get dirty and ugly, internal divisions crack them up, the nearby residents get disgusted, the local businesses get mad, and then what? There’s isn’t going to be a revolution. It’s not Egypt. In the end, they’ll have to break up and go home. Or hope the cops come in and bust them up so they can end with a bang.”

Well, that’s one problem. The other is that the value of the sword of Damocles is that it hangs, not that it falls. Obama told Wall Street that he was the only thing standing between them and the pitchforks. That scared them into line for a while. But now Wall Street’s sick of him, and doesn’t care. They’re not playing ball like they used to.

So he unleashed the pitchforks and what we got was the #occupy movement, a pathetic, and totally non-scary, embarrassment for the Democrats. Republicans are now hoping they’ll stay in place until November of 2012.

Yes, yes, yes!

Account Deleted

Bob was complaining that we on the conservative side were "hating" the OWS crowd for criticizing them, yet calls the R candidates "neanderthals" because he disagrees with their politics. As was pointed out, there were only a handful of boos when the soldier spoke and no one cheered people dying because of no health insurance. When you have to make things up to keep your hate going, it's time to rethink your life.
The various OWS mobs have repeatedly and openly broken the laws and are quite proud of it.
They are not articulating anything of any worth beyond 'I'm not happy'. In contrast the TPs have been very peaceful and focused on the need for a Constitutional govt that would not have gotten us into the financial mess we are in.

Michael Anderson

Russ wrote: "There were 5,000 people in the room and only 2-3 at the most booed."

Exactly. And there's a picture of a guy crapping on a cop car that is painting OWS with a broad brush as well.

I'll keep saying it: the vast majority of the TPP and OWS supporters work their butts off at their day jobs, begrudgingly pay their taxes and hate how the gov't spends their money, and they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore.

Trying to pin down frustration movements such as OWS and TPP with a series of planks supporting an organized platform will bring you no joy. That's the beauty of them, they are undefinable.

These are not new political parties, they are populist movements. Just sit back and enjoy the ride; how they turn out affecting the coming Democrat-Republican presidential and congressional elections will be a fascinating exercise in deterministic chaos.

RL Crabb

I don't really care about the audience. It was the deafening silence from the podium that concerns me. No one stood up and said "that's wrong." They're all so scared of offending the Tea Party.

And look at these characters. You say Obama didn't have enough experience, but you all go gaga over Cain, who can barely articulate a position without stumbling over it. I got news for ol' Herman: Government isn't like running a business. Meanwhile, the rats are deserting the Bachmann campaign now that it has become apparent that she has zero chance of becoming the nominee. Russ has already said he can't support the Newtser or Romney. Then you have Rick "deer in the headlights" Perry...Yeah, the GOP has problems.

Greg Goodknight

Cain will be following Bachmann, both Not Ready for Primetime Players. At least Bachmann has been tempered by elections in the past.

No, business is not statecraft. A good CEO might make for a half-decent dictator right out of the box, but herding cats and legislatures takes different skills. He should try a Senate seat first.

Steve Enos

Bob Crab nailed the real issue vs. Russ's math break down on how many yelled out in the audience.

This is the real, sick issue of that "event":

"It was the deafening silence from the podium that concerns me. No one stood up and said "that's wrong." They're all so scared of offending the Tea Party".

Bob nailed the real issue.

Steve Enos

Greg is on right on point about Cain... and Bachmann too.

Greg Goodknight

No one stood up against Borat or other Sacha Baron Cohen outrages, either. Ignoring boorishness in a pained silence is a coping mechanism. It's also been the mainstay of the Funt's Candid Camera franchise.

Greg Goodknight

Ron Paul got a nice long chat this morning with Meet the Depressed's David Gregory. Dr.Paul has been talking the talk for a quarter century that I know of, and, unlike when Cain was sitting in the same seat, Paul remained on his feet, unscathed.

Every time I watch the relatively inept Dem water carrier David Gregory I miss Tim Russert even more. Russert, who was once a staffer for the eminently decent Dem Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, had his point of view and didn't try to hide it, but still managed to do his homework to put folks he agreed with on the spot, and always treated the opposition with respect. I still have his last MtP saved on TiVo; just can't bring myself to delete it.

George Rebane

It's interesting and amusing to see the debate over the 2 or 3 tea partiers who may have said the wrong thing, and then compare it with the hundreds (thousands?) at the OWS demonstrations who are screaming for revolution, at the police, at capitalism, at government (while wanting it to be even bigger), continue to be arrested ('Take me, take meee!!') for breaking laws, ... . Ah, the parity of it all.

D. King

Here is the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwoh6g05hj4

Now we should compare and contrast struggles.

DADT and this:

http://www.rastasurvival.com/images/A_-_slave_ship_2.jpg

I see the similarities…NOT (Borat)

Steve Enos

“You wanna be commander in chief? You can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the United States uniform, even when it’s not politically convenient.” - President Obama

Mikey McD

I forgot, what unconstitutional war did Obama earn the peace prize for (so many of them going at once I can't keep track)?

D. King

Playing around in poo Steve, is not a good idea.

Here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001324/

"Causes, incidence, and risk factors
Hepatitis B infection can be spread through having contact with the blood, semen, vaginal fluids, and other body fluids of someone who already has a hepatitis B infection.

Infection can be spread through:

•Blood transfusions (not common in the United States)

•Direct contact with blood in health care settings

•Sexual contact with an infected person

•Tattoo or acupuncture with unclean needles or instruments

•Shared needles during drug use

•Shared personal items (such as toothbrushes, razors, and nail clippers) with an infected person

The hepatitis B virus can be passed to an infant during childbirth if the mother is infected.

Risk factors for hepatitis B infection include:

•Being born, or having parents who were born in regions with high infection rates (including Asia, Africa, and the Caribbean)

•Being infected with HIV

•Being on hemodialysis

•Having multiple sex partners

*******•Men having sex with men******

-------------------------------------

•Chronic hepatitis B infection increases the risk for liver damage, including cirrhosis and liver cancer.

•People who have chronic hepatitis B can transmit the infection. They are considered carriers of the disease, even if they do not have any symptoms"


Think about readiness and the other troops!

Greg Goodknight

Thanks for the link, DK. I'd forgotten exactly what it sounded like.


On reexamination, I think they were booing the policy being called for, not the soldier.

D. King

Me too.

Todd Juvinall

They were boojng the policy not the soldier, the left is desperate for some examples they can bludgeon the TPP with. I am still waiting for Obama to apologize for the intro he followed and the words "son of a beeches" was used. Crabb, any outrage on your part there? Here is the Hoffa link.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/lets-take-these-son-of-bitches-out-teamster-president-hoffa-calls-for-war-on-tea-party-at-obama-labor-day-event/

The military should not be used for sexual education. DADT needs to be reinstated.

Steve Enos

D. kings 12:20 post sure is tragic.

D. King

D. kings 12:20 post sure is tragic.

Please explain.

Steve Enos

George says "interesting and amusing to see the debate over the 2 or 3 tea partiers who may have said the wrong thing". (George, as an FYI, Barry posted on Russ's blog that these candistaes are not Tea Party associated).

Sorry, Cain is not just mis-speaking. Cain is flip-flopping on some key conservative, Tea Party issues every other day. One could not back track and pander any harder if one tried.

Look at who is going after Cain for this... it's conservatives Bachmann and Santorum that are calling Cain Mr. Flip-Flop, not ready for prime time, not ready to hold office.

Here's a piece from the Boston Globe that covers some of the "issues" Cain keeps getting "lost" on and what Bachmann and Santorum say about it:

ttp://www.boston.com/Boston/politicalintelligence/2011/10/gop-rivals-say-cain-flip-flopping-social-issues/oWRhFOJQofxtAuGwA0xwnM/index.html

RL Crabb

Todlydyte, once again you are confusing me with someone who sympathizes with the Democrats. I think I've made it pretty clear I don't care for either of your dinosaur parties.

D. King -Somehow you seem to think that only homosexual soldiers are a risk for disease. Maybe not in the Muslim countries, but soldiers and prostitutes in other theaters go together like ham and eggs.

Greg - You're right about Russert. God, how I miss honest journalism.

George - It's what the Tea Party doesn't say. I still maintain they only stay away from social issues to get the votes they need to get their puritan agenda into power.

It's about controlling people's lives. Both parties are guilty. I say live and let live.

Steve Enos

Here's another good story about Cain and him being lost in space:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/ct-oped-1023-chapman-20111023,0,1073799.story

George Rebane

BobRL 143pm - You proscribe the TP for what it "doesn't say" because they openly want to maximize support for their limited principles of governance. And that is what - sneaky, immoral, corrupt, dishonest, underhanded, ... what ??!! (This may be the height of hubris, at least in my experience. But then, I'm just a young'un.)

Steve Enos

Todd says... "They were boojng the policy not the soldier". That's not the real issue of that incident.

Bob Crabb nailed the real issue vs. Russ's math break down on how many yelled out in the audience:

"It was the deafening silence from the podium that concerns me. No one stood up and said "that's wrong." They're all so scared of offending the Tea Party".

Bob nailed the real issue.

bill tozer

Mr. Steele, here is a objective site to check out. I see the tent cities popping up as a microcosm of society. From coast to coast, the original Occupy tent cities have had to form their internal security to deal with various problems of human nature and human behavior. Homeless have taken advantage of joining for the free sandwiches and having a port-a-potty close by. The tent cities welcome them...er...has long as they help out and not be free loaders, ha!. Other camps have segregated into the true believers in one space and the "A" camps on the other side of tent city. "A" camps is the latest buzz word for the anarchists. The soft sounds emitting from parks from DC to Oakland fill the still night air with the soothing sounds of arguing, drunkards fighting and blissful domestic violence. Think it was Cincinnati where internal Occupy security forces beat a homeless mentally ill man into unconsciousness when he got out of hand. All in all, it sounds just like any society when you put too many rats in a cage with various egos, agendas, and priorities. Guess we the people will be paying to change the newspaper in their cages for health reasons. Without police presence will it turn into Lord of the Flies, or be like NYC yesterday when only 300 marched uptown?http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_19139574

D. King

"D. King -Somehow you seem to think that only homosexual soldiers are a risk for disease. Maybe not in the Muslim countries, but soldiers and prostitutes in other theaters go together like ham and eggs."

Funny you should mention ham!
It's odd that some laws we see as archaic have a sound foundation in science, like pork and trichinosis or poo and hepatitis. Much different than the clap.

Todd Juvinall

Crabblydyte, I would suggest you start your own party, organize it and then run for office.

I see there is silence from the lefties here regarding the Hoffa comment and the deafening silence from Obama as he made a speech right afterwards. Why is that lefties?

bill tozer

We life in a nation where free speech and freedom of the press are our touchstones. Freedom of the press is necessary in a free society...er...unless you are in Occupy Oakland. Turning a dog loose on a reporter for daring to objectively capture life in camp is perhaps not the best way to win friends and influence people. It would make Castro, Hugo, the mullahs in Tehran unhappy cause the reporter lived and was not imprisoned. Be that as it may, this hostility of the news media is a bit Nixonian. http://patdollard.com/2011/10/abc-reporter%E2%80%99s-life-threatened-at-occupy-oakland-%E2%80%9Cwe-shoot-white-bitches-like-you-around-here/

Account Deleted

Still trying to equate the TP with the OWS? Look at the overall picture of the majority of the crowds. Ain't even close, brother. And to say wait and see the effect? The TP has already had an effect. People that were elected to office with the TP support. The TP message is loud and clear. Constitutional governance. Period.
Secret Puritan agenda? Again, Bob - if you have to make things up to keep your hate on, time to re-think your life.
There are a lot of things I don't like about a lot of the R candidates. Some - like Romney, are just a rehash of Bush and McCain. Perry seems to be too much of a slick who has already risen to his highest level of incompetence. I like Cain the best as he has the proven leadership skills to carry out the duties of the job. You will notice he has stayed more focused than the others on the central problem of putting folks back to work. And he knows how that is accomplished. Whether or not he can get his tax policies pushed through remain to be seen. But he is, right now, our best hope. That and getting rid of the freak show in the legislative branch. As long as we have folks like Barney Frank, Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters and Dennis Kucinich in large enough numbers to get their agendas moved forward, we are going to be an economic backwater.
When the economy has tanked completely and the food riots start, where the candidate stood on gay marriage and abortion isn't going to seem real important.

RL Crabb

I don't hate anybody, Scott, but I have a problem with the agendas put forth by the two parties. All I want are people who can solve problems and get us back on track. It's a great country, and it deserves another two hundred years if we can concentrate on what's important and can the bullshit.

As for Cain and the Republicans, after Herman made the faux pas on abortion, I went to the Red State site and read the comments. They were 100% crazy angry that Herman might be waffling on the issue. Don't try to tell me these issues aren't going to be on the front burner once the right wing sleazes into office.

George Rebane

"... once the right wing sleazes into office." Oh my!

RL Crabb

Yeah, I'm a little testy today, George. I'm just fed up with both sides telling me the same old bullpucky. It's all about "winning" as Charlie Sheen would say.

D. King

Here Bob, something to laugh at.

A spontaneous OWS uprising.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilFMHRll5QA&feature=player_embedded

Account Deleted

Cain is the same old bullpucky??? Gee whiz Bob, what would make you happy?
Cain is all about what every one claims they want and as soon as he shows up, everyone runs off screaming. Cain has shown he can solve problems and get folks working. Actually, I think that's the problem. They would have to work. No more freeloading.
Even if Roe V. Wade is overturned, abortion will still be legal in most states.
As I said, once the food riots start, it won't be much of an issue.

Todd Juvinall

I guess I am unclear on the constant whining about the two parties by Crabb etal. Tell us please how you would fix what you claim are the problems. Term limits? Yeah those worked real well in California. NOT! Dictatorship? Mass resignations of al l the legislators to be replaced by? Organize and elect a third party legislature throughout the country? I am confused by the trashing of every single candidate the R's are putting up. Especially the trashing of Cain. He is not a politician yet the Crabb's and etal's complain the politicians are the problem. So please explain to us how yu will repair r fix the problems you claim there is. Oh, you can't? Yep, just outside looking in. At least Enos ran for office and got elected. Sheesh.

Michael Anderson

Cain has no chance at being elected to any office, anywhere, anytime. Not even Dogcatcher in Mayberry RFD. He has no experience as a politician. Ron Paul at least knows how the system works.

The only system that Cain knows about is how to get pizzas to the people. End of story. He is a complete waste of time, politically. He is nothing more than a motivational speaker hyping his brand. He is an embarrassment to our political process and he should get out of the race before he does any further damage to our national interest.

I would vote for Donald Trump before Herman Cain. I would vote for one of my pets before Herman Cain. What a joke political system we have...

Todd Juvinall

True, we have you giving political discourse. Yep, pretty humorous.

Russ Steele

Michael, I have to agree Cain is not a politician. However, it he has more talent that your local dog catcher or our current president:

• Bachelor’s degree in Mathematics.
• Master’s degree in Computer Science.
• Mathematician for the Navy, where he worked on missile ballistics (making him a rocket scientist).
• Computer systems analyst for Coca-Cola.
• VP of Corporate Data Systems and Services for Pillsbury (this is the top of the ladder in the computer world, being in charge of information systems for a major corporation).

All achieved before reaching the age of 35. Since he reached the top of the information systems world, he changed careers!
• Business Manager. Took charge of Pillsbury’s 400 Burger King restaurants in the Philadelphia area, which were the company’s poorest performers in the country. Spent the first nine months learning the business from the ground up, cooking hamburger and yes, cleaning toilets. After three years he had turned them into the company’s best performers.
• Godfather’s Pizza CEO. Was asked by Pillsbury to take charge of their Godfather’s Pizza chain (which was on the verge of bankruptcy). He made it profitable in 14 months.
In 1988 he led a buyout of the Godfather’s Pizza chain from Pillsbury. He was now the owner of a restaurant chain. Again he reached the top of the ladder of another industry.
He was also chairman of the National Restaurant Association during this time. This is a group that interacts with government on behalf of the restaurant industry, and it gave him political experience from the non-politician side.

Having reached the top of a second industry, he changed careers again!
• Adviser to the Federal Reserve System. Herman Cain went to work for the Federal Reserve Banking System advising them on how monetary policy changes would affect American businesses.
• Chairman of the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank. He worked his way up to the chairmanship of a regional Federal Reserve bank. This is only one step below the chairmanship of the entire Federal Reserve System (the top banking position in the country). This position allowed him to see how monetary policy is made from the inside, and understand the political forces that impact the monetary system.

RL Crabb

My point, Juvinall, is that we have problems, BIG problems. They are solvable, but it will require many people and many points of view to implement. The kind of trash talk I hear from the ideologues like you and those on the other side of the fence does nothing to further that goal.

You seem to think that you're going to win all the marbles in the next election and you'll be able to just walk in and do whatever you want. At this point, I'd say the Repubs gaining a filibuster proof majority are slim. So you will be stuck for another two years yapping at each other while the country goes to hell.

And you wonder why there are so many of us who decline to state a preference? Maybe because we're sick of the bluster and bullshit coming out of politicians who are more concerned with getting elected than solving problems. A pox on both your houses.

George Rebane

Thank you Russ for assembling that resume on Cain, it saved me the work and is a necessary piece to this discussion. Cain would be eminently (over)qualified for any political job in America. That Barack Obama has not been impeached or run out of town on a rail is existential proof that the American presidency is an extremely fault tolerant position which requires little experience beyond reliable performance in front of a teleprompter.

Account Deleted

Bob - you need to go back and re-read what you just wrote.
Point One - we have big problems. Well thank you for pointing that out! Some of us saw those problems coming and why they would become big problems. But we are all crazy right wing nuts. We just know why it all goes wrong, but we are not to be trusted with the fix.
Point Two - it will require many people and points of view. Well, we have had unConstitutional govt meddling in the formerly somewhat free market with a very heavy bias towards socialism for decades. It just doesn't seem to work, does it? But you say we should all get together and just work to agree on how much poison is needed to kill the patient. Sorry - the patient needs to get off the dope and fire the witch doctors.
Point Three - We are all sick of the BS! Again, thank you for pointing that out. We had no idea. But then you say we should work together with those BSers. Sorry - that doesn't compute. Cain is probably the least of any BSer to come along in decades and he is mocked by you as a BSer. Healthy scepticism and a bit of cynicism can be a good thing, but you've let it become your religion. We aren't electing God. Just someone to full fill the duties of the executive branch of the US govt. We are humans and act like it. The founding fathers knew that wasn't going to change, so they devised a system of governance that would try to contain the folks that got into office. They correctly predicted what would happen if the system wasn't followed. They wanted ordinary citizens to be office holders for a while and then return to their careers, jobs and homes. But it wasn't followed and the sheep got instructed to ignore those old dead men and listen to the modern elites. They were smarter and had the answer. Just keep us in office and we'll give you goodies. Since they also had the power of the purse, they plundered it. The founders knew they would, because that's what humans do. At least Obama is honest - he said the Constitution was fatally flawed because it only contained 'negative' rights. What the govt couldn't do. It demonstrates the 180 degrees of difference in thought that the left has from the right. They can not ever be reconciled - nor is it worth trying. The left wants to make the govt the origin of rights and by extension all material goods and the right wants to contain the fed govt with in it's proper role as a protector of our innate rights that are ours as humans. The left has trashed the Constitution and given the leaders god-like powers. Now you are so frightened of them, no man or woman can ever be trusted in the office. No wonder you trash every one of them. None will ever be good enough - left or right.

Bill tozer

Mr. Crabb, there is hope. I look at the Bill Clinton model. He started off his first year with Hillarycare as well. He adapted and figured out how this country works and worked with Congress to get things done, albeit sometimes reluctantly. Bill Clinton had his Sista Soldier moment if you will. After the hard fought primary run in 2008, Hillary and Bill were saddled with millions of campaign debt that burned Bill's hide as well as him being painted a racist by Obama supporters. Bill has a pretty big ego and I knew he would be getting his revenge. He is probably telling Obama to dig in his heels, move to the left, keep printing money, and stay true to his principles he learned as a community organizer that all money comes from grants from Washington to pay for the ride and embrace the Occupiers. Then Bill hangs up the phone after advising Obama and rolls on the floor laughing. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

Steve Enos

Even Fox News is saying Cain "is in over hs head":

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/22/cain-stumbling-under-glare-national-spotlight/

D. King

Yes Steve, MUST OBEY FOX NEWS; MUST OBEY...
Any other tips?

RL Crabb

You'd think Cain would have thought out his 999 proposal a little better before going public. It was only after analysts from both sides pointed out that his plan would put the screws to the low end of the scale that he had to revise his position to 909. Same with his statement about abortion being a family decision rather than the government's job.

I understand that when you are shuttling around the country 24/7 with cameras in your face you are bound to make a gaffe or two. Every candidate does it. But anyone who enters the meat grinder had better have his positions on big issues well rehearsed and thought out.

I'm also well aware that there will never be a perfect human being to occupy the Oval Office. Someone who is a combination of the best traits of Ronald Reagan and FDR. As a moderate, I still believe that the answer is not more government vs. less government, but government that balances the needs of people and the needs of a vibrant economy. Is that so much to ask?

George Rebane

Re fixing 999 earlier Bob. It is always good on Monday mornings to point out why a revised plan, theory, computer program, or device could not have been done right from the beginning. Now we may also ask why Obama's multiple plans, worked out by his ideological mavens who don't have to be on the run, have caused (or abetted, depending on your view) the catastrophe they have. But more importantly, why does the man not learn from data and experience, and instead keeps shoveling out the same garbage one more time? At least Cain, the pragmatic businessman, knows that Keynes reached his high point when he told a gaggle of journalists, 'When new facts come in, I change my mind. What do you do?'

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