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12 November 2011

Comments

bill tozer

"That resignation is expected later Saturday after the Chamber of Deputies approves economic reforms, which include increasing the retirement age starting in 2026 but do nothing to open up Italy's inflexible labor market"--from AP this morning. Changes to retirement age coming in 15 years? Great Caesar's Ghost! This is too radical by those heartless fiscal conservatives. Time to strike!!!!!!!!

D. King

Here is a simple explanation of how it works by Andrew Klavan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su4PwZCWUdg

Whether agenda driven or driven by greed, here is a real world (small town) example of an out of control, corrupt government. Agendas and salaries are interchangeable.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/09/22/us-california-payscandal-arrests-idUSTRE68K40N20100922


D. King

SEIU picking pockets of families of disabled in Michigan

Initiated in 2006 under then-Gov. Jennifer Granholm, D-Mich

"If you’re a parent who accepts Medicaid payments from the State of Michigan to help support your mentally-disabled adult children, you qualify as a state employee for the purposes of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). They can now claim and receive a portion of your Medicaid in the form of union dues."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G4g9ILNUr_8

D. King

Sorry, here is the link to the story on Hot Air.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/11/11/seiu-picking-pockets-of-families-of-disabled-in-michigan/

Steve Frisch

So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?

Mikey McD

Great piece George! I would highlight the fact that teachers unions are largely responsible for America's failed public education system. If only their was a students union to combat the ills of the teachers unions!

It amazes me that progressives can't (won't) see the foreshadowing in the EU zone as the fate of the socialism they push for in the USA.

I would argue that Woodrow Wilson was our first socialist president (see 1913's Federal Reserve Act and 16th Amendment).

D. King

This Governor Brown Steve?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIlzYD4tk78

Steve Frisch

The average wage of a teacher in Nevada County is in the $65,000 range, just slightly above average median income. Combines teacher salaries fell $600 million in California last year. Admittedly benefits add about 20% to that number, but do we really think it is a salary issue? It is a content issue.

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html?appSession=572515124291003

Steve Frisch

I was thinking more of this Brown, Mikey:

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_19289626

Dixon Cruickshank

Excellent piece George and so unfortunately true - just a little taste was Madison WI - we are Greece already

Mike Thornton

Talking about "cancerous", I'd like to know (yes or no) does the "Gang of 8" support these type of tactics?
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/11/conservative-sabotage-recall-walker-wisconsin#update1

Greg Goodknight

"So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?"

Let's see... the unfunded liability for public pensions in California is about a half a trillion dollars. Jerry Brown's reform plan is said by his office to represent a 5 to 10 billion saving over the next 30 years.

Where does the other ~490 or 495 billion come from, Steve? Brown tries to limit the savings to giving future state workers a comparatively stingy pension deal so as to not anger current employees and retirees, but it's the current unfunded liabilities that are leading the state towards receivership.

Todd Juvinall

If Jerry Brown was truly serious about pension reform we would all be fine supporting that attempt. However, when someone beats you over the head all the time then tells you he will stop do you think folks will believe him? Action not words, SBC is words, Dan Logue and Tom McClintock are action and they have yet to agree Brown is not just pulling our leg.

Mike Thornton

Once again, the "regressives" prove that they love corruption and illegal behavior as long as they benefit by it!

Mike Thornton

here's another example from the right wing cancer files:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/12/1035468/-Saturday-hate-mail-a-palooza:-recycling-40-year-old-sexist-slurs-edition?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo

I'm just curious, does the "Gang of 8" support this type of rhetoric?

Todd Juvinall

I like that "gang of eight". Kind of catchy.

D. King

Yeah Todd, kinda old westy sounding.

Here: Our new theme song.

How the west was won!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ7ZMS_QM2g

LOL!

Thanks Thornton.

Greg Goodknight

Thornton, rather than searching the web for words to stick on folks here, try to concentrate on what is actually being written here. Frisch, that goes for you, too.

Do you think Brown's proposal to slash 1% from the existing unfunded liability of public pensions is a serious attempt at solving the problem, or is it just as far as he can go without angering his base, who are the public employees who expect this largess?

Todd Juvinall

Dave, I have always loved that music! The "Gang of Eight"! How the West was won! Yep, thanks Thornton!

What we on the right like to see about these issues such as the pensions is ACTION! But, since the left and their water carriers, the public employee unions, want to mute the opposition by feigning doing something, I doubt we will see any ACTION!

D. King

Think it's like Greg said. They'll save on stamps or something, over 30 years.

Greg Goodknight

Perhaps Thornton or Frisch will actually chime in with their own analysis of the problem versus the size of Brown's solution. Perhaps not.

Personally, I've never thought Union choices to screw new members in order to keep present brothers and sisters from sharing the sacrifice was anything other than a repudiation of most everything unions used to stand for. At least in the private sector, unions know that if they're too greedy, everyone will lose when the company fails; public unions think there's no way a state can fail, taxes can always be raised, others can sacrifice. That's a big bet for California public employee unions to place.

Bob W

I cringe when thinking what else old Thornton must be looking up on the Internet.

Greg Goodknight

Let it get lost, this is what Frisch wrote: "So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?"

Does Frisch really think a 1 or even a 2% cut is a "good first step"? Come on, Steve (BA Polisci, Cal State), give this a try.

Bob W

It is a great first step. It gives Brown all he needs to claim he is concerned and is doing what needs to be done while enabling him to point fingers at the other side. Great smoke screen. Let's all give him a hand!

Russ Steele

Once again Mike T is trying to change he subject after checking his intellectual quiver and finding it empty.

Todd Juvinall

That was good Russ. What a hoot!

Bob W

Thank you Russ for helping blur the unattractive visions of Mike T's influence with entertaining levity.

Mikey McD

Gov Wilson had solved the pension crisis years ago... then Gov Davis reversed Wilson's two tier system... now we are to believe that Moonbeam has the guts, $ and wherewithal to combat the public service unions?! I commend Moonbeam and I consider it a small victory that Moonbeam admits that the $500,000,000 + in unfunded liabilities is a problem (crisis).

Mikey McD

It is comical that the lefties brought up the pension reform to get points for Moonbeam, while highlighting the facts outlined so well by Rebane that reform/solutions are made impossible by too powerful public employee unions. Finally, we all agree.

See Arnold's pension commission (6 dems, 6 rinos)... their summary (paraphrase) "Public employee unions are too powerful, there is nothing we can do to solve the unfunded liability crisis."

It should be noted that common sense solutions (see Gov Wilson's two tier system) did (do?) exist... switching to a 401k style plan for new hires, raise retirement age, etc... though the public employee fat cat elitists would never go for it...

Greg Goodknight

Mikey, just in case you'd forgotten, Jerry Brown version 1 is the Governor who gave public employee unions collective bargaining for compensation in the first place.

Were we to believe the movies, a future old Vulcan proverb is that "Only Nixon could go to China". A Jerry Brown, Statesman, could fix the problem, but I can't see anything in his past that points in that direction. In fact it was his lack of ability to do anything meaningful at the state level to solve out of control property tax levies that brought in the flawed Prop 13 over his objections.

Steve Frisch

George, I just worked 45 minutes on a 11 point detailed reply and lost all the content, any chance of recovery?

George Rebane

SteveF - that's a bummer, I'm sorry. It didn't come through to me as an unpublished comment in the two places that it might have. This also happened to me early in blogging when I used the comment box as the text editor to capture stuff off the top of my head. I then learned never to compose anything lengthy in the box, and have advised readers to use their favorite non-browser text editor like MS Word to compose their thoughts, then paste them into the comment box. That way you are in control until you see it posted.

I hope you give it another shot.

Todd Juvinall

God does answer our prayers! LOL!

Steve Frisch

I'll give it another shot late tonight after dinner and dancing :)

Russ Steele

Steven,

The Typepad comment web page has a time out function. Typing text does not tell the timer you are still there. So, as George suggested, use a text editor and paste the text in on long posts. One caution, if there is a space as the first letter of the pasted text it will not accept the text as a post.. If the post button is faded after the paste, then check for a space as the first character. One other hint, before you paste, hit the browser refresh button to wake up the Typepad timer. All of these tips will make your live less stressful.

Walt

So they voted down the so called anti union bill.
So NOW who will the public unions whine to when the layoffs
start coming? They NEVER think about that. Raise taxes to keep union people employed? Not going to happen. Only here in Ca. will that happen.

Greg Goodknight

Some folks confuse quantity with quality. One well supported point devoid of personal attack would be a breath of fresh air from any of the usual suspects.

Steve Frisch

Gee Greg, you asked a question, and an important one. I regret that I can't answer a complex public policy issue with a pithy one line response. Perhaps we should acknowledge the limits of blogging and bloggers attention spans when we discuss these issues.

Steve Frisch

Russ and George, thanks for your helpful advice.

Greg Goodknight

Gee Steve, I thought you'd know the difference between making one good point supported by facts and reasonable logic and coughing up a "pithy one line response". I'd be more impressed by one good limited post that actually took a 45 minute eternity to research and write than 11 points averaging about 4 minutes per... one minute of research and 3 minutes writing. Not much there there.

My expectation is that your "eleven point response" was more dodging and obfuscation; what a shame it was lost to the four winds.

Account Deleted

Thanks for the topic, George. As a retired state employee, I find myself hit from all sides on this issue. When I entered state service, I was happy to be rid of unions but they seem to have followed me and sensing their new opportunities, they pounced on the naive state workers with all of their charm. The original union vote was to allow the unions to represent the workers but they promised they would never make any state worker have to pay any dues of any kind. I told every one of my fellow workers this was a lie and they would soon be paying money to the unions out of their pocket like it or not. I was hauled into my manager's office and was told I could not keep saying this or I would be written up and disciplined. Since I could not prove in court what I was telling my fellow workers, I had to shut up. So much for free speech. The unions won and within a year, 'fair share fees' were being deducted from our paychecks. SEIU is a criminal organization that uses every form of censorship, lying and deception to further their quest for power. Anyone who defends SEIU is a fellow criminal, or is just too ill-informed to know what the hell is going on. That is not name calling any more than calling Bernie Madoff a crook. It is what it is. If you don't like that characterization of SEIU, I would suggest you produce something factual to prove your point. I can (and will, if necessary) provide details of years of their gangster mentality in wanting total control over state workers and the sad way they treated us. We were never served by the unions. We became conduits for cash to the Dems in California and beyond. Nothing more.

D. King

Typepad, that's the name of my dog, ate my post.

Here Telepad...here boy.

I have found also Russ / Steve, that hitting "Enter" at the end of the post will darken the post tab at the bottom.

Walt

Thanks Scott for sharing that story from the inside
of union goonsmanship.
The Mrs. had similar experience working as a elder care worker.
She refused to join "that" union, and they said " that's fine. But we are taking our cut of your paycheck anyway". She soon found another employer that was non union, with better pay and benefits, then gave the "union" the finger as she walked out the door.

Bonnie M

George...Thank you for the wonderful article. You pretty much covered everything. It's reality. I thought most intelligent people could understand that when government got too big it would create a terrible burden for the private sector to support. When public servants unionized it simply created a government within our government of, by and for itself with the power to shut it down if it didn't get it's way...pretty much how President Roosevelt put it. Because of those like you George, and honest media like the Union, showing the fundamental costs responsible for our government's financial woes...there's a good chance for a solution. I'm weary of politicians using the poor, sick, elderly and kids as an excuse for their big spending. The budget cuts need to start at the top with those within the aristocracy.

Bonnie M

I also want to thank all those who posted such wonderful links contributing to the discussion.

bill tozer

Greece and Italy can oust their PMs, but their Presidents remain. Today, everybody got excited cause they say they are going to do something. Nothing in concrete. Watch them try reducing something, try making the poor slacker pay 2-3% more for gov't services or working 40 hours a week and you will see rioting in the streets. Politicians hate seeing burning of cars and businesses and they really hate people chanting disparaging no-nos at them. So, fire another PM, form another coalition government and watch nothing happen. You gotta be brain dead to burn perfectly good money by "loaning" (lol) Greece its 6th installment of money. Oh, Italy and Greece act real nice and promise to be good little boys and not masturbate in public when the Big Boys threaten to cut off their allowance. The promises and rhetoric that this time they truly mean it and will make cuts and maybe live within their means in a couple of decades ....but in the meantime, let the good times roll. Nothing like having your credit limit increased to make all those silly promises of responsibility become a distant memory. So, what do you do when a Greek or Italian nose goes on strike? You pick it, of course.

bill tozer

Me again. I was curious as to why Slovakia was opposed to bailing out Greece not too long ago. Seems the people are very hard working, honest, frugal and work till they are 70. Their tourist industry is expanding as more shutter bugs as well as the National Geographic rave about this tiny country. It is understandable for a people who believe in hard work might feel resentment to those who have a socialist and entitlement bend. After all, Slovakia had its fill of Soviet style communism with its proximity to Hungary and Poland. Guess they don't like slackers either, so I feel a kinship to the Slovenians. http://spectator.sme.sk/articles/view/44460/10/industrial_output_in_slovakia_grew_74_percent_y_o_y_in_september.html

D. King

Here is an interesting read on the state of California.

http://www.calwatchdog.com/2011/11/10/calpers-boosting-predatory-hedge-funds/

bill tozer

Something has to give. Guess everyone is hoping for the good times of bubbles to return quickly so we can forget this austerity stuff. But bubbles burst and leave a sour taste in the mouths of the unsuspecting. I can site anecdotal stories for hours about unions, public pensions, national debts, deficit spending, etc.. Sure, there are countless signs of hope among countless stories of impending doom. Human nature, though, is predicable. When times are good, people believe it will always be that way. When times are bad, people believe it is worse than it actually is. Found this anecdotal opinion piece about Italy from Australia's former Ambassador to Italy. I always like Ambassador since her dog bit a member of the Pakistani delegation, lol. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/the-drivers-of-italys-problem-20111113-1ndmq.html

Greg Goodknight

It looks like Steve Frisch is still out dancing, or perhaps he's still trying to figure out how a 1% cut of a 500 billion dollar problem can be rationally sold as a "good start" to people who have actually read what's in Brown's proposals.

I'd love for California to dodge bankruptcy but it can't if partisans like Frisch and Thornton willfully keep their heads in the sand.

Mikey McD

Eat the Rich: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Steve Frisch

Greg, It's not worth responding to you. You are a dinosaur intent on simply eating time.

Greg Goodknight

Another pithy one liner from Frisch. And here I was actually expecting a thoughtful response.

At least you chose well for your parting shot; The Fox and the Grapes is one of Aesop's best.

Greg Goodknight

Hmmm, I wonder what that "dinosaur" quip was meant to infer. Age? I'm apparently both younger and better looking than Frisch, with a kid in college and years away from SS and Mediscare. Ideas? Nothing is more tired than the same-old arthritic progressive old-tyme religion, and cAGW alarmism is currently flying south for the winter as fast as it can.

Steve, you jumped in to this threat with your usual snooty content-free one liners and not once back up your cheap shots with solid content and reasoning, just empty posturing. A dinosaur following this old adage:
"When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout"

How's the SB Council doing these days, Steve? I'm so looking forward to seeing the current IRS filings.

Greg Goodknight

Checking, Frisch has been a busy bee posting tomes on subsidized solar energy in the safe cocoon over at the Former Union Editor's sandbox.

A great place to hide if you don't want to discuss the issues in an open forum.

Steve Frisch

Now why would you want to see our IRS filings? I think you will be disappointed.

I can assure you that we are 100% up to date, 100% legal, uphold the highest standards for a non-profit organization including a voluntary set of transparency and accountability principles endorsed by the Independent Sector, do independently audited financial statements every year, require conflict of interest statements from our board members, and file all of our paperwork on time and thoroughly with all the appropriate agencies. If one wishes to look at past filings they can simply go to the California Attorney General's web site or the Secretary of State's web site, where everything up to 2009 is posted. We have of course filed 2010, but neither agency has posted them yet. Our data will be available there when the State catches up.

But here is what they will show:

In 2010 SBC had revenue of $ 2,066,000 (up significantly from 2009)
We had expenses of $ 1,994,000

Just over $100,000 of our revenue came directly from public sector sources mostly for contract work (about 10%)

About $1,900,000 of our revenue came from private sector sources, the vast majority of it for contract services provided. The remainder is membership and donor revenue.

About $800K of our revenue is pass through for a combination of contractors and energy efficiency incentives.

Our largest expenses are salary, wages and benefits, which is normal in an organization managing contract work.

We filed no lobbying expenses, because nothing we did in 2010 qualified as lobbying--public education regarding public policy issues does not qualify as "lobbying" under IRS code unless it is "directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office." Public and voter education efforts on behalf of a specific issues qualify under IRS code as "political activity" and require no special filing. We of course thoroughly vetted this legally before our engagement in the Proposition 23 campaign. No direct lobbying expenses in 2011 either.

We plan to file lobbying expenses in 2012, because we will be taking specific positions on specific legislation (mostly around governance reform issues) and asking legislators to vote a specific way.

I made about $100K last year, and I am not one bit embarrassed about it. I work about 65-70 hours a week, and manage 24 projects with a staff of 26 right now. Our staffing goes up and down depending upon what projects we are working on.

SBC has almost no debt--about $8K for a company vehicle which is used by the entire staff when anyone travels more than 50 miles from Truckee (to save on the IRS milage re-imbursment payments).

I can tell you what 2011 will show when we file in next spring...it will show that our revenue and expenses grew by another 30%, to about $2,800,000 and $2,700,000 respectively (our staff keeps a pretty tight watch over these things so we can tell you where we are with less than 1% any day of the week).

Anything else you want to know? Our organization is committed to sustainable business practices, which means we believe in sharing information.

I think it is humorous when you, and Todd, and a myriad of others here, attack non-profits for their activities. Non-profit organizations have significantly higher standards for transparency, accountability, reporting and enforcement of conflict policies than any other business in the country (SEC filings would be the notable exception).

Steve Frisch

Oops that should read 'about 5%" up above.

Steve Frisch

Really Greg? Snooty content free one liners? Here are my posts:

"So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM"
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"I was thinking more of this Brown, Mikey:

http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_19289626

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 09:26 AM
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
George, I just worked 45 minutes on a 11 point detailed reply and lost all the content, any chance of recovery?

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 04:10 PM
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I thanked Russ and George for their technical advice:

"Russ and George, thanks for your helpful advice.

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 05:59 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you posted this:

"Some folks confuse quantity with quality. One well supported point devoid of personal attack would be a breath of fresh air from any of the usual suspects.

Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 12 November 2011 at 05:50 PM"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And I replied thus:

"Gee Greg, you asked a question, and an important one. I regret that I can't answer a complex public policy issue with a pithy one line response. Perhaps we should acknowledge the limits of blogging and bloggers attention spans when we discuss these issues.

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 05:58 PM"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gee Steve, I thought you'd know the difference between making one good point supported by facts and reasonable logic and coughing up a "pithy one line response". I'd be more impressed by one good limited post that actually took a 45 minute eternity to research and write than 11 points averaging about 4 minutes per... one minute of research and 3 minutes writing. Not much there there.

My expectation is that your "eleven point response" was more dodging and obfuscation; what a shame it was lost to the four winds.

Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 12 November 2011 at 06:53 PM"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then you followed up by needling me about having a life and I responded by calling you a "dinosaur"

So I ask, what do you mean by 'snooty content free one liners"? It seems that to anyone reading the record you would be the one escalating the normal cycle of insult and incivility.

Which just leads me to ask, "who is the jackass here?"



Greg Goodknight

Looking forward to the 2011 filings, one never knows what one will find. With friendlies in Sacramento and Washington I'm not surprised of your claims of growing overall revenues. How is membership and donor revenue trending?

Nice you got a China vacation out of it this year.

"Sustainability" is such an interesting topic. Since the SBC was formed, the proven reserves of traditional fuel has skyrocketed; we have centuries of coal and natural gas, with the US leading the world's inventory. The only thing left of your "sustainability" issue is that CO2 tipping point, which, if you follow even the mainstream Climate journals, you'll know the latest CO2 sensitivity estimate is about 2 degrees for a doubling. The last IPCC estimate was 3.0 degrees, and they got that not by a careful derivation from measurements, but rather an averaging of the wildly varying choices made by the climate modelers to make their results fit the records kept by the likes of the UAE Climategaters and the millionare bureaucrat 'scientist', Hansen of NASA-GISS.

As knowledge of the effects of oceans, clouds and solar magnetic effects, I expect the best guess for CO2 sensitivity will keep dropping, down to about the 1 degree for a doubling that is predicted by classic thermodynamics. It is a shame in a way; the positive feedback models were developed as a possible geoengineering to avert the next ice age, but we're not going to be able to SUV out of that one, whenever it might be.

The current economy has real problems; making it more expensive for everyone to heat and light their homes and workplaces is not the answer.

You might want to correct the record, I don't think I've attacked "non-profits for their activities". I question your non-profit, it's activities, and yours, because of your antics in Nevada County politics and in print. I don't think you've seen me "attacking" any others.

Steve Frisch

Nice job ignoring the issues you brought up about what you hope to find in our filings and turning the issue back on climate change! Smart people are going to debate that issue for centuries, although I find it amusing that all the debate seems to be here and in the UK and Australia, all places where Fox News and oil companies are strong and the existing power structure has a vested interest in maintaining industry dominance. We can just agree to disagree on that one; and 97% of the scientific community is on my side!

I think I just thoroughly proved you have absolutely no reason to question my non-profit, its activities or mine , which anyone who wants to can go see for themselves with a simple review of public records. I think the problem here is that what you think you know about non-profit law and what you actually know about non-profit law are continents apart. If you think otherwise, make your claim buddy. otherwise you are pissing up a rope.

Steve Frisch

By the way, you going to respond to the pretty clear proof up above that I acted like a saint and you were the jackass?

Greg Goodknight

Yes, Steve, you are the jackass here. Your very first post was snooty and misleading; you've completely failed to justify Brown's so-called state pension reform being any sort of step towards solving the state's problems, it's just as far as he can go without losing his biggest contributors, state and local employee unions.

I'm sure I'd run out of fingers and toes counting the number of times you've left in a huff, uttering something along the lines of a Cartmanesque "screw you guys, I'm going home" like your 12:09PM this afternoon, only to come back more sooner than later. In a binary representation, 20 fingers and toes would be more than enough.

Of course, by 1130 this AM, you'd already written something like 500 words waxing eloquently about solar shenanigans over at the FUE sandbox, so I wasn't needling you about having a life, I was needling you about your lack of follow-through here.

Steve Frisch

My very first post was a question Greg....and just because I said you were not worth responding to does not mean I am going away...whenever one of you makes a statement so outrageous or inaccurate that it must be countered you can count on a Mike, or a Ben or a Steve or a Steve call you out on it, and when we are gone there will be someone else to make the case, because what your crew believes is so stupid that it engenders response.

I have no responsibility to respond to you; you never stays on point, serially changes the subject, and escalates every conversation with anyone who disagrees with you into a flame war. I have zero respect for your needs here.

I love the way you disparage Todd though; pity you don't see that you are just Todd with a slightly expanded vocabulary.

Greg Goodknight

Steve, 97% of the climate community agrees with me... yes, it's gotten warmer since the little ice age, and yes, mankind has an effect on climate. Those are the two questions that 97 or 98% claim is based on, and I pass the test. It was nothing about CO2 and the details of the positive feedback hypothesis. Flimsy research used by even less solid science ignorami among the political class. Just how much science did you take as a state college polisci major?

You brought up cAGW by hoisting the "sustainability" petard, which came into being at the UN subsequent to the IPCC formation. No, the 'debate' won't last five years; the claims for runaway warming are freezing up faster than most dreamed a couple years ago, and won't last past the next big financial calamity. It's one thing to risk spending everyone into the poorhouse, it's another thing to risk starving and freezing everyone already there.

The poor are hungry? Let them eat corn ethanol and bio-diesel.

Steve Frisch

See , you are back on climate change--I smoked you on who was an ass first, smoked you on the transparency and accountability of my organization issue, and smoked you on obfuscating --I never brought climate change up here--look at the posts above!

How many logic classes did you have at Harvey Mudd? Perhaps a little more time spent on getting along well with others might have prepared you for civil society.

George Rebane

Administrivia - Jeff Pelline's ad hominem droppings and related comments deleted.

Jeff Pelline

The truth hurts, doesn't it George? I heard that you're in line to be our Planning Commissioner if Sue McGuire wins re-election. That alone is going to sink the poor woman! LOL.

Todd Juvinall

Wow, thew usual suspects are doing their thing all over the place. No wonder no one likes Pelline. What a bore.

SteveF, Greg smoked you man. No one here believes anything you say because you have fibbed so much on most issues. Supply the exact links to your reports so we can verify your numbers.

You three or four liberal posters are being backed into a corner you all made. You are just not believable and you have kn clout in the County. Too bad, so sad.

George Rebane

JeffP 559pm - And pray what "truth" might that be? And where in the world would a journalist like you be getting truth, let alone such hot rumors about what Sue McGuire might do upon her "re-election"?

Steve Frisch

Sorry Toddy, I supplied the information for where you can find the appropriate documents. Anyone who wants to look will see i was 100% truthful. You will have to go there yourself.

Barry Pruett

Well George, if Sue McGuire is going to appoint you to the planning commission in 2017 upon her re-election that would certainly be a scoop!

Todd Juvinall

Sorry SteveieF, you did not supply anything but hot air. Your style s well known, cut and paste bloviate and obfuscate. Supply the links, the exact links or be considered simply a fibber.

I did talk with some folks that were at the meetings on NH2020 you supposedly mediated. They said you were a complete joke and to this day laugh about t. I had forgotten.

George Rebane

Agreed Barry. JeffP's brand of journalism is unique in many ways, and that scoop(let?) is certainly one of them.

Todd Juvinall

Pelline should be in charge of the homeless program here in Nevada City. He can wear his PJ's and allow the cold and hungry to use his yacht for shelter. Oh, that was last year. Sorry.

Jeff Pelline

Looking forward to 2012!

Todd Juvinall

Jeff Ackerman's abilities as a reporter and as the Publisher make Pelline look like a cub reporter for Grit.

Jeff Pelline

And how is that comment relevant to the discussion? Notice how George is selective in his deletions. This blog is a joke.

Steve Frisch

Todd, do your own homework you lazy putz. I told you exactly where to look.

Todd Juvinall

tevieF, you have not supplied anything of relevance. For a guy who bloviates page after page here of meaningless stuff, you sure are lazy when asked to provide proof.

For Pelline, you simply left your comment open ended and silly and I filled in your blanks. I can' believe you were actually hired here as a cub reporter.

Greg Goodknight

So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM

Checking the dictionary:
as·i·nine
adj.
1. Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
2. Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.

Not even Steven Frisch bothered to try to support the Brown pension proposal; it is indefensible as a "good first step", and you didn't even bother trying. This was your first post in this thread, Steve, and you were intentionally being an ass. You're good at it, too, but you did get smoked.

Here's a WSJ editorial on it, just days old:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204528204577010070865554042.html

The Mercury News thinks unions won't do any better than the Brown plan:
http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_19259393

Here's Dan Walters today:
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/28/4012968/dan-walters-is-jerry-browns-pension.html

Like Walters, I doubt Brown is willing to fight his core support to get even this passed, and it won't fix what's broken.

Todd Juvinall

Frisch is a simple bomb thrower and nothing more. He won't even place the link to his legal documents because he can't back anything up he spews. But, we all know Jerry Brown better than Jerry knows Jerry and nothing will happen with the pensions as Greg has stated. We have a trillion dollar problem and a 5 billion solution. That isn't even a decent return in interest! The problem is two fold. On going pressure from all levels of government to fund the pensions and a change in the rules of setting them. Nothing will happen.

Ben Emery

How dare workers want to have a say in the work place, how dare they!

Todd Juvinall

BenE, with your above statement (7:48) it is obvious you have never owned or run a business with employees. There are thousands of pages of can-do's and can't-do's just in California laws. Go look in the lunch room of your place of work (if you have one) and read all the posters legally required to be placed on the walls. Workers comp, SSA of which a employer pays 1/2, withholding and even down to how much a person can lift regarding weight of an object. So, it appears that once again you are bloviating on an issue you have no knowledge about. Liberalism is a mental disorder is a book which explains the malady.

Greg Goodknight

Todd, no need to exaggerate; it's a half-trillion dollar problem.

Ben, your asinine (definition above) comment is off-base. This isn't about 'workers having a say in the workplace', this is a case where the management the workers paid to get elected made pension and retirement healthcare agreements that the state knows is unsustainable. They probably hoped that property values would continue rising ad infinitum, and even if they didn't, someone in the future would figure out how to fix it.

If you read the editorials, there will be at least one proposition that will fix it by changing the deal current employees will get. Jerry Brown didn't fix surging property taxes when he had the chance, and prop 13 was the result, though he was sort of against it. It doesn't take a big stretch of the imagination to wonder if he'll punt to the initiative process on this one, with a plausible (to some) denunciation of the initiative that will fix the problem without him having to anger his union constituency directly.

George Rebane

GregG 1119am - I think you nailed it on Moonbeam punting us an initiative on fixing public pensions. Given the recent record of Californians in the voting booth, I'm not sure that the unions' cash will not carry the day and get them to render an insane verdict to resolve our unfunded $500B question. Ohio is the most recent poster child on the unions' ability to convince the sheeple.

Greg Goodknight

After 13 passed, over Brown's 'objections', he became a born again Howard Jarvis acolyte in implementing 13. Watch for the re-run.

If, by some reason, a proposition that fixes the problem fails at the ballot box, the next stop will probably be the adult supervision of receivership, probably not the legacy Brown wants; he'll need to lose his job to a Republican before that happens.

Greg Goodknight

Lest it be lost, the SBC's Frisch didn't answer the question about the trend of membership and donation revenues. Since he promised to answer any questions, I'm sure it was a simple oversight.

Todd Juvinall

Now now Greg, that is too much to ask of the rent seeker. Pressure!

Greg Goodknight

"My very first post was a question Greg"

Yes, it was. A snooty, asinine one.

"So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown's proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?"

Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM

snooty: (adj) Showing disapproval toward others, esp. those considered to be of a lower social class.
Synonyms:
arrogant - supercilious - haughty - conceited - stuck-up

When you "asked" that question, a reasonable observer would have believed you thought it was a good first step, and the folks you were sending a dig to would be against it for no other reason but ugly partisanship. Instead, you got substance. If you have a $500 BILLION dollar liability you have no identified resource to pay off, cutting that down to $495 BILLION isn't the answer. You've danced around any substantive response, so you resorted to your usual playbook. Attack.

You know, sarcastic might have been slightly better as a description, as is asinine, but, having checked, "snooty" also fit just fine. I think the problem is that insulting folks he doesn't like or agrees with comes so naturally that Steven Frisch doesn't even know he's doing it.

Steven Frisch, you started in this thread with a one sentence, sarcastic, asinine, snooty remark. And then whined when you got hit back. Nut up or shut up.

Todd Juvinall

I have posted a article on SBC and Frisch's 990's on my blog. Looks like his posts here are BS.

http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2011/11/sbc-990s-2002-2009-you-decide-if-they.html

George Rebane

ToddJ - Excellent. I think this should be pursued on your blog.

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