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16 December 2011



George, here's some things that need to be considered in all this:

As reported, Meckler was in NY since Dec. 11th, meaning he had brought the hand gun into NY and he had it in his possession while in NY for a number of days. Did Meckler also carry while in NY? All are in violation of NY gun laws.

How did the hand gun get to NY? If Meckler took it into NY there are NY laws about that too.

As anyone that has undertaken the California CCW permit classes and application review process knows having a Cali CCW permit doesn't get you approved to have or carry in most every other state. The east coast states do not have CCW “reciprocity” with Cali.

Some states have CCW permit “reciprocity” with other states, many don’t. Example… a Utah issued CCW permit is recognized by a number of others states and visa-versa. If you have a Utah issued CCW permit it is “recognized” by some other states, but not all.

A California CCW permit has very limited “reciprocity” by other states. Below is a link to the California CCW “reciprocity” map for other states. Notice that a California CCW permit is not recognized by the eastern states.

Taking the firearm into these states and carrying in these states is not permitted via a California issued CCW permit.

Having a CCW permit comes with a whole lot of responsibility. Meckler did not meet his responsibilites as a CCW permit holder and it reflects poorly on others with CCW permits.

Meckler took his firearm into NY, that was done with intent. I really doubt that Meckler was not aware of the NY firearms and CCW laws, so he did so with intent.

Odds are Meckler will have his California CCW permit reviewed and revoked as a result of this... as it should be.

Firearms are not toys and the rules we have for CCW permits must be followed. If we don't like them, we change them, but they must be followed.

I am a very strong support of gun rights. I'm a former Deputy Sheriff and former federal law enforcement officer. I want CCW and firearms laws revised in California as I think they over reach.

Bottom line is this is no joke, Meckler is a lawyer and knew damn well what the NY gun laws were before he took the firearm into NY in the first place.

So where was the firearm while Meckler was in NY?

Meckler should have kept his mouth shut becasue his state that.. "The fun began when I declared it to the ticketing agent, and asked for the appropriate form, per procedure, from her. I've done this all across the country, more times than I can count".

So how many times did Meckler carry into other states illegally? Looks like Meckler has been violating gun laws in a number of states..."all across the country, more times than I can count".

Here’s the California CCW permit reciprocity map:



George I posted the above post, but the new posting system didn't show my name for some reason.

Steve Enos

George Rebane

SteveE - Because of some problems with the TypePad spam comments filter I've had to turn on the commenter sign-in feature as I mentioned in my last 'Administrivia ...' post. It may be that the account you signed in with has you labeled as 'D'. Anyway, that's my best guess.

TypePad has issued a notification that it is being attacked by a lot of spam comments, so I suppose they are working on their filters. They also seem to have stopped notifying blog owners via email when new comments arrive. This is a pain in the ass, because wanting to be responsive, I now have to log in to a special page to see the latest comments. Anyway, I hope this helps and thanks for your patience.


So George, what are your thoughts about all this?

What are your thoughts about Meckler stating... "I've done this all across the country, more times than I can count". So what other states did Meckler transport his California CCW hand gun to? If it was any of the no California reciprocity states Meckler has been in violation in those states too.

George, you and I and any California CCW holder knows damn well what the rules are about taking a CCW firearm from California to another state. It is well covered in the CCW classes and it's well know to "gun folks", plus Meckler is a lawyer to boot.

Meckler has said he was in NY since Dec. 11th, thus all the time he was in violation of the NY guns laws.

George, I'm a big A2 supporter but Meckler has violated the most basic law/requirments for holding a California CCW permit. This does not help the A2 cause, it hurts it. Meckler was not and is not a responsible CCW holder.

Simple, Meckler failed to uphold his responsibilities as a California CCW permit holder and it hurts the rest of us. Meckler's California CCW permit should be pulled and it most likely will.

What are your thoughts on this George?

Todd Juvinall

I think you should be praising Meckler as a person pushing the envelope for the Second Amendment. He should be allowed to possess and transport a weapon, and in this case and unloaded one locked in a TSA box and as he did alert the TSA to his weapon, without arrest. This is not 1935 Germany. So, rather than trashing him as you do in every post since the Tea Party began, you should support him.


Transporting a gun and ammo in a locked box that conforms to Federal TSA regs is not Carrying Concealed. It's transporting, and possessing, but not Carrying Concealed. The apparent fact he has a CCW from California or any other state has nothing to do with it; you can drive through Frisco and check into SFO exactly the same way whether or not you have a CCW.

If Meckler had this in the trunk of a car passing through NY and NYC on his way somewhere else I believe he'd have a pass under Federal law, as long as he didn't remove it from the locked box.

This could be interesting.

John Galt

Under the Interstate Transfer of Firearms Act. (Title 19 sec 926a), This provision allows a citizen who is legally carrying his firearms across state lines as long as he does so properly, i.e., secured in a locked container and that possession of firearm is legal at both the point of origin and final destination. It has a “not withstanding” provision which negates any state or local laws for the purpose of interstate travel.

With the number of laws we have on the books, the odds are that each of us has broken at least one law this month-- we don't even know it.

Mr. Meckler reportedly has a CCW permit (or reciprocity) in 23 states. The gun was checked baggage and declared. Clearly he was not attempting to circumvent a law.

--John Galt


Seems you miss the legal issues Gregory.

You see Meckler arrived in NY with his firearm on Dec. 11th and he failed to take the required action under NY gun laws. This is the violation of the NY guns laws.

Meckler having a pistol in NY that was not permitted in NY is the issue, it's not just a CCW issue. He will also now have his California pulled.

It's this simple... Meckler was illegally in possession of a handgun while conducting four days of business in New York City. The interstate transport provision of the FOPA requires that the firearm must be legal in both departure and arrival points of the travel. He didn’t meet this requirement so he has no recourse to Federal law.

Meckler was caught LEAVING NY, he did not check his firearm in as required when he arrived in NY, got it?

Then Meckler made the dumb mistake of sending off the above comments where he states "I've done this all across the country, more times than I can count". Take a look at the Califonia CCW reciprocity map, see all the Red "no" states back east?

Meckler broke the law when he brought the firearm INTO NY, he was in 100%, clear violation of NY guns laws while he was there from Dec. 11th to when he left.

Meckler was in posession while in NY and was in violation of the law while doing so, regardless if he carried the firearm with him or not in NY.


News update from The Union:

Local law enforcement authorities have suspended the concealed-carry gun permit for Tea Party Patriot co-founder Mark Meckler in the wake of his arrest Thursday at New York City's LaGuardia Airport.

Meckler was arrested after he tried to check in for a Delta airlines flight with a locked box containing a Glock pistol and 19 units of 9mm ammunition. Meckler, who had been in New York since Sunday, allegedly told authorities that he carries the gun because he gets threats.

The tea party leader has a California “carry concealed weapon” permit, but that does not allow him to carry a firearm in New York.

Meckler declined to comment when reached by phone Friday.

He was arraigned in New York on charges of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon, a felony that could carry up to 15 years in prison, and was released pending a Jan. 12 court date.

Meckler obtained his permit from the Nevada County Sheriff's Office, but Sheriff Keith Royal said it has been suspended pending resolution of his criminal proceedings.

“In light of what happened in New York, we have suspended his license at this point in time,” Royal said. “We want to know what the outcome is of that criminal charge. If it's ... an honest mistake and no charges are furthered, in all likelihood, his license would be reinstated. If he is found to be in intentional violation of the law, there is a strong possibility he would not have it reissued. On its face, it looks like he was upfront.”


Sorry Gregory, but your statement that "If Meckler had this in the trunk of a car passing through NY and NYC on his way somewhere else I believe he'd have a pass under Federal law, as long as he didn't remove it from the locked box" has nothing to do with this.

Meckler was not "passing through" NY. He arrived with his handgun on Dec. 11th and had it in his possession until he went to leave NY. That's the violation of the NY gun laws in play.

George Rebane

I support Greg's 459pm and JohnG' 514pm interpretation of the legal method of transporting firearms. And I agree with ToddJ's 412pm endorsement that Mark should use this incident to illuminate the unreasonable fear that American governments (fed and state) have of law abiding citizens having possession of firearms in their jurisdictions.

One of the common correlates of ALL governments on the way to autocracy is to first disarm their people - it is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the institution of tyranny.

Douglas Keachie

Just a quick test. Signed in through Wordpress.

John Galt

It seems very curious that Sheriff Royal is so quick to pull the CCW permit of Mark Meckler.

But it gives the good Sheriff yet another opportunity to get air time on KNCO which he so clearly relishes.


"D", I didn't say Meckler had a pass, however, he was making a grand tour of the country and may well have not opened the box. Right now we don't know, and probably won't know what any defense will be before it's presented.

I don't know Meckler, have never attended a TP event and the unbridled schadenfreude by the local anti-TPP over this is more than a bit creepy.

I take the suspending of his California CCW in the meantime as being SOP.


So, "D" is Steve Enos who is also Doug Keachie?

Why am I not surprised?

Russ Steele

It is time to make lemonade out of this unfortunate situation. This incident could become a 2nd Amendment rallying point. How does a traveler deal with the multiple state gun laws when traveling, when you can carry a gun in 23 states and not in the others. What does one do with the gun when traveling through a state like New York? We need to have more sane gun laws that apply across all states. Sheriffs across the nation are advising people to get a dog, an alarm and a gun as budgets are cut taking cops off the street. The police are not longer capable of protecting citizens, but the gun laws do not allow us to protect ourselves in all states. It is time for some real change.


Hey Gregory, get a grip and read my 11:46 post above.

The new login to post did not post my name and as soon as I saw that I posted again to make it clear and to tell George and George even posted a detailed response.

I'm not Doug Keachie and "SURPRISE" back to you... try to at least read the posts before you make an off topic and 100% wrong personal attack post.


A "D" at 11:49 is signed Steve Enos, leading me (and others, I'm sure), wondering what D name Enos might be using. Then D Keachie signs in with a 'test'.

"Enos", you're a master of 100% wrong personal attack posts. So is "Keachie".


And, "D", you didn't make an 11:46 post. Par for your course.

Douglas Keachie

Well at least that makes clear who "Gregory" is. You could post an image and become a little bit more public.

Douglas Keachie

Your are not surprised, Greg, because4 you are too paranoid, and we all blend together.


Poor "Gregory", seems someone is VERY paranoid. Did you read the above posts?

Try again and read my 11:44 post and my 11:46 post right below it. Get a grip dude. LOL

PS: thi spost will likley show it was posted by "D", but the why is covered in the above posts. Seems under the new posting system here my posting ID comes up as "D" for some reason.

Steve Enos (not Douglas Keachie)

John Galt

I agree Russ.

At the very least, there should be a standardized and practical means for individuals to transport their own firearms from one location to another.

This is a great opportunity to make Lemonade: Mark Meckler is the ideal catalyst to bring about change in the gun laws. The timing is perfect, and there will be no shortage of legal and financial support for this legal battle.

In the mean time, I think I'll avoid flying to New York...or flying on Delta Airlines.

George Rebane

SteveE - Everyone else's name comes up correctly in their comments. I'd confirm that the service you use for sign in to TypePad is not one where you have labeled yourself as 'D', because that is the label that gets passed to TypePad for the attribution line of your comments. I would also try a different service to sign in and see what label gets picked up then. In any event, thank you for signing your comments until you get the attribution straightened out.


"transport their own firearms from one location to another" is one thing, possessing a firearm in a place with increased firearm restrictions like NY is another thing.

Transport is one thng, carry is another.

If you have a California issued CCW permit it does not allow you to carry in other places that have no reciprocity with California.

In the case of Meckler he wasn't just passing through the airport, he went to NY and was there for four days, with the handgun, in violation of NY gun laws.

Todd Juvinall

Depends on what the definition of "is" is. Sheesh!

John Galt

Technically, we don't know that Mr. Meckler had possession of the firearm in New York City other than at the airport....Okay that may be a stretch...but we certainly don't know that Mr. Meckler was "carrying" a firearm on his person while in New York...to infer that would similarly be a stretch.

This is not a CCW violation because Mr. Meckler was not "Carrying a Conceiled Weopon" ...which is what CCW stands for.

Transporting an unloaded firearm in a TSA certified case in compliance with Federal law does not require a CCW permit.

Furthermore, the alleged violation pertains to NY City law, not NY State law.

Which leads back to Russ's point about making lemonaid.

1) NY City laws can not trump the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.
2) A simple practical solution for firearms is needed.
3) This is a great opportunity to resolve/correct this NY City law (and others like it throughout the nation.

Douglas Keachie

Technically we do not know that pot farmers with 1,000 plants are growing them for profit either.

Technically the Tea Party has not run out of substantive workable stances on the economy, but running to create a side show on A2 does provide a good smoke screen.

No infringements on the Technicolor© trademark have been intended here. This is a TSA certified safe commenting box.

John Galt

A very tiny and dark box, filled with ... I presume.

I get the hint...you're tired of the conversation...hence the deviation from the topic.

Your free to move on.


"Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear"

LOL. No Keach, no anxiety or fear is involved, your name calling is for naught. You are famous for your uncounted (but certainly more than 20) sock puppets that you've conjured. We now also know that "Enos" has at least one online alter ego, "D", and so also skulks around.

"D" may well be a figment of his own imagination. You both have similar irrational debate styles; who's to say you're not the same person in either a physical or metaphysical sense. Has anyone here seen a "Doug Keachie" and this "D"/"Steve Enos" in the same place at the same time?

You both also seem to be easily confused; here's a guide:
Carrying a concealed weapon: a loaded gun concealed on one's person or vehicle, possibly with a round chambered and the hammer cocked, ready to fire.

Legally transporting a weapon: an unloaded gun in a locked box meeting Federal specifications. Any ammo is completely separate from the gun.

Meckler was *not* carrying a concealed weapon.

Douglas Keachie

Greg, I never called you a name. I merely made an observation about your condition, which at least one other reader here agreed with. We are not confused, or maybe you want to believe that the 1,000 plant pot grower just likes to see green growing things. He didn't take the gun to NY just to carry it around in a box. What would be the point of doing so?

Read the story m ore carefully next time: 19 "units" (of ammo) were stored in the same case as the gun.

John Galt

It's already established and acknowledged that the firearm and ammo were transported in compliance with Federal law.

That law permits the firearm and ammo to be together in the locked TSA certified case. (Greg, I think you're referring to transporting firearms that are not in cases....and in that instance, the ammo must be kept separate and distant....but that doesn't apply in this situation.)

For the record, New York City police did not find Mr. Meckler carrying a firearm on his person. There is no evidence that Mr. Meckler ever carried a concealed weapon in public within New York (City or State.)

Douglas Keachie

Here's the details on what you can and can't caryy, and N.B. the airlines themselves have their own regulations as well. From my reading of this the owner provides the box which has to me TSA specs and airline specs, but the owner has the key/combination, so I suppose he could have been walking around NY with the gun still in its case, and both together inside a briefcase or back pack. What do you think Mark's best time is for getting the "transported" gun out and ready for use? I'd bet less than twenty seconds.

Douglas Keachie

Ooops, left out link: http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

Douglas Keachie

New York City itself has more categories of gun possession and ownership than I care to wade through, but in a nutshell, the case Meckler needs to make is that he was in "continuous transit" through NYC. Clinton and the meaning of the word "is" comes to mind.

Douglas Keachie

Dang, brain left out link again: http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/nyc.aspx

Douglas Keachie

Where Meckler will lose is the fact that he went straight from California to NYC, and then turned around and went back to California, or tried to. If he had another leg to his trip, he could have argued that NYC was not his "destination." As it is, my guess is he is "predestined" to fail in his case. My guess is that the airline had rules concerning contacting NYPD, and that's where he got tripped up. Was the airport in NYC? I don't recall which one he was going to fly from. In any event, if NYC was his destination, it's pretty obvious he was NOT in continuous transit, and thus in violation of NYC laws.


Yes, Keach, your brain leaves out links all the time. You're an idiot. Now remember, that's not namecalling, that's just an honest mention of your condition.

That goes for the other idiot, too.

Now that we have that cleared up, since fear and anxiety has nothing to do with my hobby of blog sockspotting, it isn't paranoia. The both of you are obviously socks, an unfortunate part of the fabricated blogosphere.

George Rebane

As states' rights (10th amendment) celebrant, I don't want to diminish New York's ability to legislate its own laws in concordance with the 2nd amendment. However, one of the litmus tests of government gone wrong is when the blind application of a law exposes an insane conclusion, view of, and response to otherwise civil behavior. When this happens, a wise government will quickly rule the case on its obvious merits, and immediately seek to remediate or remedy the faulty statute.

Mark Meckler's CCW arrest presents such a case. Now we shall again see how enlightened and progressive New York really is.

Douglas Keachie

"You're an idiot"

This is not name calling? Then what would you call it? Do notice the difference between paranoid, an adjective, and idiot, a noun. Names are nouns, adjectives are not. You excel in math, Greg, but apparently not so much in English.

Some, including the new incoming leader of the Tea Party, are calling Mark's TSA approved gun case a "suitcase." I rather doubt that the dimensions of the "suitcase" are much bigger than the gun and cartridges, plus a couple of inches on all sides. Hardly what most people would call a "suitcase" and easily stashable inside a laptop bag or briefcase or backpack. I'll bet Mark could get to it and have a loaded Glock in less than 20 seconds. NYC law which applies at La Guardia Airport, only allows for transport through NYC in continuous travel, and since NYC was his destination, he doesn't get off on that defense.

According to one report, that was a locked gun box, NOT a "suitcase."

Mark J. Meckler, 49, a California lawyer who co-founded the Tea Party Patriots, among the largest and most influential of the national Tea Party groups, was charged with possession of a concealed weapon in the second degree after he presented a locked gun box to a Delta Air Lines ticketing agent, according to a news release issued by the Queens district attorney’s office.

John Galt

Mr. Keachie,

You might not be familiar with the recent United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit in Parker v. District of Columbia, which was affirmed by the Supreme Court in the case District of Columbia v. Heller.

Based on that, most assuredly, this New York CITY law will be revised to comply with the 2nd amendment and the above mentioned decisions....and Mr. Meckler's will triumph.

Where NY City law crosses the line, is that their law requires a permit in order to merely posses a firearm. (Reference: http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/nyc.aspx )


Poor Gregory... why can't you grasp this?

Read my 11:46 and 11:49 post above. Under the current/new/alternate login my ID shows as "D" for some reason when I post here. I am looking into this to get it changed. Until I do I sign my name in my post.

As George and Russ and others here know... Doug Keachie is Doug Keachie, they all know who Doug is andd he uses his name when he posts here.

I (Steve Enos)am not Doug Keachie and Georeg and Russ and others here (except you) know that too and I have always posted here under my name (less the current issues with the screwed up login system).

So... "Gregory"... how about YOU come out of the bushes and post you full name? You see it's YOU that is not providing your full name with your posts here. What do you have to hide?

So how about it "Gregory"... post your last name and come out of the bushes.

Steve Enos

Douglas Keachie

So, John, this is indeed a case of civil disobedience to test the law? Sounds like something the Left invented ages ago.

D'Steverino, Greg has used his last name for many years now, I have no idea why he has change monikers in midstream.


Poor "D", you really are an idiot, aren't you? Even the other idiot has figured it out.

Douglas Keachie

John, your link includes a closing parens which renders it useless. If you go back about ten posts, you'll find my link to the exact same site, that does work. If you read me carefully, you'll discover I am not defending NYC gunlaws.

George Rebane

Lest there be any lingering doubt, both Messrs Doug Keachie and Steve Enos are very real persons and residents of Nevada County. I have met them both on several occasions.

Douglas Keachie

Thanks Papa G. Geppetto! I always wanted to be a real boy :)


So "Gregory" posted... "Poor "D", you really are an idiot, aren't you? Even the other idiot has figured it out".

Come on George... this is just more off topic, childish, insulting, personal BS. Just one of many by "Gregory" and you just let it go on and on and on.

And who is "Gregory"? Can't tell because he does not use he full name when posting his off topic insults.

So "Gregory", how about you provide your full name when posting here? Why hide and attack from behind the bushes?


PLEASE NOTE: The above comment posted by "D" was posted by myself, Stev Enos. I'm still trying to get the login system I use here to use my correct/name ID when I post here.

Steve Enos

Douglas Keachie

Steve, contact me privately and I'll tell you all about


The so-called "Steve Enos" can sign in using an ID that says Steve Enos if he cares to. Forced to sign in using an authorization from a third party, I've found it is using my first name as the display. You apparently chose one that identifies you as "D". C'est la vie, schmuck. Turnabout is fair play.

And for the effervescent "Keachie", identifying my "condition" as "paranoid" does move the adverb to noun, as well as being a continuing defamation. Par for your course, too.

Back to the subject of Meckler's arrest for possession of a handgun locked in a TSA approved container, I'd not be surprised if it was hoped to be a test of the laws involved.

Douglas Keachie

And I'll not be surprised to learn that it was arrogance causing a lemondump, and an attempt to claim credit for inadvertantly setting up an opportunity for a lemonade stand.

Douglas Keachie

Greg is so paranoid he thinks even the grammar police are after him, as well they might be. Under no conditions is paranoid an adverb>

Of, characterized by, or suffering from the mental condition of paranoia.
A person who is paranoid.
adjective. paranoiac
noun. paranoiac

Since I said you were "too paranoid" is is still an adjective, and not a noun. I have never said you "are" a paranoid.


Keach, when did you stop using socks in the blogosphere? "Never" seems to be most likely.

John Galt

Thanks Doug. ( I forgot to add extra space around the parentheses. ) [I fixed the link in the above comment. FYI, you don't have to use HTML to program a link into these comments. Just insert the URL as is with space delimiters on each end. gjr]

I'm glad to know you don't support New Your CITY's law. It's WAY beyond reasonable protections.

Douglas Keachie

Well Greg, now that, as I predicted, they are going to use social media info to determine credit ratings, I'll probably drop out of sight altogether, except for my wealthier friends, and carry on my Socklyhoodness from a very anonymized account. You of course will recognize the writing style and content, but the names will change to keep ahead of our ever vigilant corporate and government Big Bother agencies.

George Rebane

DougK - in reading your recent comments I've had to do a couple of double takes. Am I missing something something, or are you showing more of your libertarian side here, or is this just a seasonal sentiment? ;-)


George, that isn't a libertarian streak coming from Keach, just his usual paranoia. A psychosis for all seasons.

Douglas Keachie

Greg, shuckin and jiven and changing the subject as usual, and not answering the original question, "just how did that plane come down intact?"


Keach, if you want an engineering analysis, you either have to wait for me to be interested, or pay me. Cash or Paypal?

"Steve Enos", an apparent "former Deputy Sheriff and former federal law enforcement officer" has a hard time not conflating CCW reciprocity and lawful possession issues. Meckler ran afoul of the NYC possession law. There is no evidence Meckler, a person I've never met, has ever illegally carried a weapon concealed on his person, in NYC, in NY state, or in any other state.

Assume I don't have a CCW in CA or any other state. A good assumption. *IF* I had a handgun, I could put it in the same box Meckler was using, in a suitcase, in the locked trunk of my car, and legally drive through every state and city in the country. Even NYC.

Meckler was arrested for standing on NYC soil and declaring he had a gun in his possession, in his luggage, properly secured per TSA regulation. Period. It has nothing to do with CCW reciprocity or anything related to CCW laws nationwide.


Gregory, read my Posted by: D | 16 December 2011 at 05:28 PM as it covers the CCW vs. unlawful possession issues for NYC.

And once again Gregory... what's you full name? Why hide?

Steve Enos


At this point, Enos, it's enough that it ticks you off. None of the 'regulars' have a problem with it.

You've always been a reactionary Dem over at Cartman's blog, and you took this Meckler kerfuffle as an invitation to pile on. Your attack was so off-base on the law that your law enforcement background seems puzzling... did you so misunderstand the law when you were enforcing it?


"Cartman's blog"??? No idea who or what "Cartman's blog" is Gregory.

And what's your full name? Don't you have the spine to use your full name here?

George has posted in the past the posts by those that post here without using their name are useless and should be ignored... I agree with George as it fits you as you hide in the bushes.


Note: the 08:45 post above was made by me... Steve Enos


"As anyone that has undertaken the California CCW permit classes and application review process knows having a Cali CCW permit doesn't get you approved to have or carry in most every other state." D- 16Dec11 11:44M

The "approved to have" law is the 2nd Amendment, and it covers all 50

"So how many times did Meckler carry into other states illegally? Looks like Meckler has been violating gun laws in a number of states..."all across the country, more times than I can count""

It appears you also misunderstand basic grammar and sentence construction, since the "more times than I can count" was clearly regarding his lawfully declaring a firearm to the airline ticketing agent.


Sorry "Gregory" but no real name when you post here means no value to your post.

Steve Enos


Sorry, D, but a "Steve Enos" means no value to the post.


I thought a Nevada County regular would remember the super obese Jeff Pelline was royally pissed off that RL Crabb chose the Eric Cartman character when lampooning Pelline's ugly and divisive blog antics.

Jeff's feelings were hurt because Bob chose a fat character to portray him. So sad.

Paul Emery

So blogsters what restrictions on the possession of concealed firearms do you feel are acceptable under the 2nd Amendment? Who should administer those restrictions State, Federal, County or City?

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, the Second Amendment applies as a enumerated power across every state. How do you define it?


Paul, the issue here isn't "concealed firearms", because under the law, the gun Meckler had wasn't "concealed".

I believe there are now three states where any adult who may legally possess a firearm (leaving out felons and the mentally ill) may carry a concealed weapon, usually meaning a handgun ready to be used but hidden in clothing. Alaska, Arizona and the rough and tumble Vermont. How is it working out there? Is one safer in New York City, Sacramento, Chicago, or Montpelier?

I think a key factor in one's thinking on this is whether one sees firearms ownership and use (ie keeping and bearing) as a privilege conferred by the state on the worthy, or a basic right held as a citizen of the state.


To clarify, the three states mentioned don't require a permit. If you're a law abiding competent adult, you can legally carry a 44 Magnum concealed under that Speedo. However, just as in the other 47 states (54 if you use Obama's counting), if you use it you are fully liable for your actions which the gun crowd calls "being judged by twelve rather than carried by six".


Gregory Goodknight, west of the Willo.



Todd, the 2nd isn't an 'enumerated power'. The first 10 Amendments are, if you will, enumerated weaknesses. Specific areas where power is withheld from the Federal Government. Rights retained by the people or the States.


It has not appeared to penetrated the think bone mass possessed by Gregory, that Mother Nature blesses different folks with different genetic strokes, and that those who got lucky in the gene pool lottery ought to be civilized enough and educated enough to appreciate what they have, and not to make fun of those who drew the shorter straws. Behaving otherwise might indicate a few straws short in the grey matter department of our Gregory scarecrow. "if I only had a brain" is not limited to "The Wizard of Oz."

Todd Juvinall

Greg you are correct. Me bad. The BOR is kind of the people's enumerated rights.

Todd Juvinall

Go getum Gregory. I think another sock puppet is after you.

John Galt


I don't have CCW permit, but I know people that do, and I'm familiar with the requirements which are:

1) Show good cause/need (Such as threats on one's life.)

2) Pass background check (employment, medical, judicial).

3) Complete 8 hour gun safety course (which includes education on legal use of firearms.)

Permit applicants agree to not be under the influence of drugs (even prescription drugs) or alcohol consumption when carrying their concealed weapon. They also agree to use their firearm as "an
absolute last line of defense." Permit holders are required to disclose their firearm before boarding any civil airplane. This is just a small sampling of the provisions that CCW permits agree to.

The following are prohibited from receiving a CCW permit: Juveniles, Felons, Narcotic users, Mentally impaired, certain persons under indictment, etc. (In summary, CCW permits holders are likely to be the most responsible of all firearm holders.)

So to answer your question: Many responsible gun owners do NOT have a CCW permit primarily because most don't feel the need to carry a concealed weapon. But gun owners generally agree that if there is a justified need--and prudent requirement are met (such as above), the county sheriff or city police chief should issue the permit.

Once someone has a CCW permit, there should be general reciprocity throughout the nation.

The problem with New York CITY's law is that the city requires a permit to merely possess a firearm (even in your own home.) This clearly an overstepping of the 2nd amendment and in conflict with the recent US Supreme Court decision Columbia v. Heller and the preceding US Court of Appeals decision Parker v. District of Columbia.

Douglas Keachie

Since using a gun is a "last resort" it might be a great idea to require a service dog as a first resort, for those who are worried about being attacked. The odds are you are not going to be called out into the middle of Broad Street at high noon for a shootout. The odds are you will be stalked and accosted from behind, by someone who has the drop on you. Haviong a dog along would greatly reduce the odds of this happening, which I gather is the whole point of having a CCW in the first place. Without a CCW, I regular have one of our dogs in my truck when traveling in town at night.


Curb your Keachie.

"John Galt", you're describing a "MAY issue" permit process. "Shall issue" states are by far the majority, with the no CCW permit required growing from the original Vermont to include Alaska, Arizona and now Montana. Arizona shares a border with SoCal, and our other neighbors Oregon and Nevada are both Shall Issue states.



Please note that, as of 2011, the *only* two states west of New York that either forbid CCW entirely or make a citizen beg for one are Illinois and California.

John Galt

FYI, In NY City a dog license is required to possess/own a dog as well. NYC has no reciprocal arrangements with other jurisdictions.

However, if your dog bites a person, the owner can be arrested for a misdemeanor (Class A misdemeanor if your dog is of a breed typically used for protection.)

NYC also has some unusual leash laws as well.

Currently NYC has no special regulations for concealed dogs (i.e. purse dogs.)

Police departments throughout the nation are encouraging dog ownership (in addition to owning a firearm) in light of their budget reductions and increased crime.

FYI, a concealed weapons permit is not required within one's home.


John's 11:26 post that... "New York City's law is that the city requires a permit to merely possess a firearm (even in your own home.)" is 100% correct. It's a NYC law that so far has been upheld by the courts, thus it is the law of the land for NYC, right or wrong, it's still the current law in NYC.

In Meckler's case he went to and was in NYC for four days, he brought a firearm into NYC. This is the violation and it was "discovered" at the airport, within NYC.

In addition, the interstate transport provision of the FOPA requires that the firearm must be legal in both departure and arrival points of the travel. Meckler didn’t meet this requirement as he went to and stayed in NYC for a number of days.

In addition Meckler wasn't doing a "travel through" NYC. He brought the firearm INTO NYC, was there for four days and had the firearm with him in some fashion while in NYC for those four days... that's the violation of NYC law.

Understand (as George and Russ well know) that I am a strong supporter of firearms rights and A2. I'm opposed to most of the every increasing regulations in California applied to firearms, ammunition and the 10 round magazine capacity regulations too. BUT, change the firearms rules and until then follow them and don’t violate them, be a responsible firearms owner. This is even more critical if one is a CCW holder.


John, one can also legally have a loaded firearm in ones parked RV or camper or even tent in California if it's your residence/"temporary residence" but can't have one loaded inside the RV or camper while it's mobile because then it's a vehicle.

Todd Juvinall

Greg, I think "D" said he was Steven B. nos supposedly a ex deputy and/or parks enforcer. Of course there appears to be no record of a Steven B. Enos except one that had a bunch of liens and owes the State an Feds a whole lot of money. I wonder if that is the same person?

Anyway, I'll defer the information given by Galt and Gregory on this one. Steven B, Enos, AKA "D" appears to have a personal problem with Meckler so is disqualified.

Todd Juvinall

Steven B. Enos, oops, sorry.


Georeg... why do you allow Todd to post his endless, off topic, wrong, personal BS here?

No standards?

Steve Enos

Todd Juvinall

So are you Steven B. Enos?


Parks? That's a rough job, you never know when some desperado might try to overstay on their 5 day pass.


Todd read my 16 December 2011 at 11:49 AM post. Under the new login system I am using it shows my ID as "D" for some yet to be corrected reason. I have explained this a number of times here and I'm trying to get that changed/corrected, but I have been posting my full name with these posts, as above clearly shows.

And as I have provided a number of times Todd, I'm a former California Deputy Sheriff and former Federal drug enforcement officer (MERT team member).

Is it possible to stay on topic?


The above "D" post was made by me, Steve Enos. I am also providing the following video link:

Watch Meckler run!



Marijuana Eradication and Reconnaissance Team (MERT), impressive. I'm sure that imparted a deep understanding of civil rights and the fine points of firearms law.

Todd Juvinall

So "D", answer the question. Are you Steven B. Enos?


Todd, you're missing the point... "D" thinks this is a 'we can finally get rid of Meckler' thread and not a 'let's point out Steve Enos' shortcomings in thought and deed' thread.

Enos, over the last few years I've noticed you're one of the pettiest partisan putzes in Nevada County, and your partisan putziness is in full flower here. Your first post above is full of half truths and misconceptions as you smelled blood in the water and thought you'd be circling for an easy kill. Apparently not.


Meckler's NYC gun issue is really simple:

Meckler wasn't doing a "travel through" NYC. He brought the firearm INTO NYC, was there for four days and had the firearm with him in some fashion while in NYC for those four days... that's the violation of NYC law.

I'm betting it ends up in a fine and loss of the firearm and a loss of Meckler's California CCW permit. Heck it was only a Glock. I say go with Springfield, a long time USA Company!

Would be interesting knowing what the capacity of the magazine(s) Meckler had with him considering in Cali we have a 10 round capacity law.

I don't like the NYC gun laws, but I don't live in NYC. So far the courts have upheld the NYC gun laws, so the law is the law and it needs to be followed until it is revised.

I'm opposed to most of the every increasing regulations in California applied to firearms, ammunition and the 10 round magazine capacity regulations too. BUT, change the firearms rules and until then follow them and don’t violate them, be a responsible firearms owner. This is even more critical if one is a CCW holder.

The topic is firearms laws and Meckler's arrest so please stay on topic and stop with the off topic personal BS.

Thank you

Posted by Steve Enos

Todd Juvinall

Gregory, excellent analysis of "D". Many of us have had to read his tripe and partisan crap for a long time. When pointed out he whines and pouts. In this thread he has proven that he is a true paper tiger on the Second Amendment. His hate for Meckler and Tea Party Patriots (as evidenced by so many f his posts) outweighs his desire to be bi-partisan on the Second. That shows the utter pettiness of the left and why they cannot be trusted.

Again "D". Are you Steven B. Enos? And why is that hard to answer?


Todd, "D" even gets California law wrong... higher capacity magazines are no longer importable into California and cannot be sold, but if you have them they remain legal to use and possess. Of course, some idiot in law enforcement (unfortunately, as we have seen here some do exist, if only for a time before they're shown the door) can still make your life miserable.


If the idiot is curious, the Cal OAG link is here:

John Galt


Has it been established that Mark was in NY CITY continuously for all four days with the firearm? Do we know where his overnight lodgings were or what his itinerary was?

If not, then I think your assumptions are premature.

Landing in a NYC airport doesn't in itself mean a stay in NY CITY.

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