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26 January 2012

Comments

Russ Steele

Sue McGuire was also at the meeting and had a table with some data. Both Michael and Sue were introduced. The four critical things that happened in 1913 were:
1) Federal reserve created
2) 16th amendment Fed Tax
3) 17th Amendment Senators elected no long appointed by State Legislature
4) Reapportionment Act - Rep no longer based on Census as pop grew to keep number of Reps from growing to be an unmanageable. Thus the suggestion we return to the original selection process and have virtual house. The technology is there and it would make lobbying very difficult for the K Street crowd.

George Rebane

Russ, thanks for correction on the 17th amendment (1913 is hard year to write about, I had a brain fart), and the addition of the important K Street factor to a virtual House.

Douglas Keachie

"And were I king, the 19th Amendment would be repealed and US Senators would again be elected by state legislatures. To that I would add that California’s Assembly would be popularly elected, but its Senate would be elected by the counties’ boards of supervisors. In short, ratchet republicanism down several notches so that the influence of moneyed interests would be tempered and sound bite bait would not rule the ignorant and disinterested as much as it does today."

So the monied interests in each county now control the Senate, having spent their money locally to squash any labor interests in the local elections, if unions were even allowed anywhere in the USA? It does follow your logic that if you can make money in a capitalistic system, you must be the smartest bear in the woods (or had the smartest daddy), and therefore entitled to tell everyone else what to do. The potential for untalented, unimaginative, family dynasties would be unparalleled under this system. Go for it, it's so Chinese!

Douglas Keachie

Or maybe real close to the royal families of Britian...?

Douglas Keachie

"do not often fly in tight formation."

Funny how the socialist government money is able to get their military pilots to do just that. If each teacher had the kind of money we spend on a pilot, that kind of money, to distribute to the families of their students, I'll bet every such classroom would be flying in remarkably tight formations. You would be so proud!

George Rebane

DougK 1112am - I think that you reject everything the Founders (and I) believed in the scales where democratic governance can work, and whereafter it breaks down. A maximized republican structure is the hardest to control from the top (i.e. centralized location), and prohibitively expensive to control from the bottom due to its distributed nature.

Account Deleted

I'm always happy to have D Keachie chime in with his opinions. Lets go back to when the labor unions reigned. The unions did a splendid job of keeping the work force at all of the best paying jobs sparkling white, threw the unions' pension money down the mob and racketeering hole and murdered the poor fools (and their families) that tried to reform the whole thing back to what it was supposed to be in the first place. Then he fantisizes about every teacher having the budget we spend on our military pilots. It has probably never occured to Keachie that there are quite a few more teachers than pilots, but even so - just what is this money supposed to buy? When students don't learn it's because they don't want to, and/or the teachers are unqualified to graduate from 8th grade, let alone try to teach another person. It's that simple. I was in the public school system for the normal run and I can say from my years of observation that money has nothing to do with how much a student learns. I spent my 3rd grade in a "bungalow". It had been a flight instruction or ready room at McClellen AFB. No insulation of any kind. No air conditioning. Not earth quake proof. It had a contraption in the back that theoretically provided heat. It was probably free to the school district. I seem to recall learning in that humble shack no more or less than in the most expensive class room I ever set foot in. Some teachers taught with wit, enthusiasm, and a solid grasp of life. Other teachers showed up drunk, or annoyed at their task or had no clue what they were doing. As far as I can discern, they were all on the same pay scale. School districts complain about not having up-to-date science books. Hmmmm - wave mechanics, quantum theory and the uncertainty principle are almost or are over 100 years old and I doubt 1/10 of the graduating seniors from high school can even identify what these are. Teachers handing federal money out to students and their families is a bizarre, un Constitutional, and frightening prospect. I'm sure it is less challenging than their appointed job and quite a bit more fun for the teachers, but how about having an economy where the govt lets folks be employed on terms set by the employer and the employed. We'd have a lot more jobs and a lot less excuse for laying about. But that would involve personal responsibility and hard work, so I'm not holding my breath.

Russ Steele

The State of the Tea Party (Jan. 26, 2012) Here is the LINK.

Mark Meckler, co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, joins Glenn Reynolds to discuss the state of the Tea Party movement. Meckler thinks it is a big mistake to write off the Tea Party, and just because you are not seeing Tea Party protests on television, it does not mean that Tea Party activists are not quietly organizing.

Russ Steele

One of the things that impressed me was that Mark spoke without notes and no teleprompter for two 30 minute blocks. It was an awesome presentation, and we are still discussing it at our house today. I am sure that others are doing the same. We need to focus on our local races and those that touch us at the grass roots — City Council, BOS, State Reps,and our House Representative. This is where local Tea Party Patriots have some influence and some leverage as a grass root organization.

The other thing that impressed me was the number of new people that stood when Nancy Garcia, TPP President, ask those who have never attended a TPP event to stand. It is always 10-15 new people at every event. That is a growing organization, one that is not going away anytime soon.

Douglas Keachie

Russ Steele, are there any FyBates of what Meckler said?

I am well aware of the number of teachers vs the number of pilots.

My point was not to as much improve the classrooms, as to make sure the kids got well fed and clothed before arriving for school.

The unions caused racism, or enforced it?

"In 1925 A. Philip Randolph became the leader of the black service staff of the Pullman railroad cars. It was the first African-American labor union. In 1941 Randolph threatened to bring 100,000 black job seekers to Washington, D.C. In response, President Franklin Roosevelt issued an executive order that ended race, color, creed and national origin bias in the hiring of workers in defense industries or the federal government, and created black membership in federal unions. In 1955 Randolph was elected an AFL-CIO vice president."
~ Wikipedia

Seems to me that hiring is done by management, not the Unions, so who set up all thoise lily white unions?

Thecommoncapitalist

I will definitely try to fly in a tighter formation than that of the progressives -- which is not a title that I use to describe myself by the way.

The problem I have with progressives is the small number of them that have ever had to make a payroll or put capital at risk, and their infuriating belief that businesses should shoulder the cost of social "goods". My favorite example is tire pressure -- properly inflated tires save millions of gallons of fuel every year, but rather than make that the individual responsibility of people who seek the privilege of driving a car, instead the progressives in the California Democratic Party passed legislation that created an enforcement bureaucracy to catch tire store owners who's workers fail to check tire pressures. Or, the $100 a month that restaurants need to spend to dispose of the insilun needles of people, some of whom just won't stop drinking booze or over eating (not everyone, but I know several diabetics in that category). They have absolutely no idea how many lunches it takes for a restaurant owner to make $100 in profit to pay that cost.

The point is that none of this should be the responsibility of business owners struggling to survive. Oh, yeah, I also had a Nevada County Employee tell me that "maybe (I) should go out of business if (I) couldn't afford their fees". So "progressive" is not a pigeon hole that will hold me.

I believe in a lot of the core ideals of the Tea Party. However, the problem with the Tea Party's "formation", as I see it (respectfully), is that you champion liberty, and are extremely eloquent about decentralization and local control politically, and yet seem to oppose it for people economically.

It is my belief that we live in the age of the corporate state, and the modern corporation looks more like the England of King George than the New England Town Hall. Y'all are definitely Mel Gibson in "The Patriot" when it comes to government, and yet when it comes to the reform of the corporate structure you seem to me more like the American Loyalist Captain who watches the British Colonel burn down the church with the whole town inside.

In Truckee we have a "billionaires and busboys" economy and the Tea Party's blind loyalist support for the billionaires does not resonate with us as well as it does in the Western County where there is a relatively prosperous middle class with small business and professional wage jobs. Did you know that billionaires in Martis Camp get free fire protection services paid for by working families in Glenshire?

With this wacky year weather wise, who knows, it might just be the year for snowballs in hell.

Michael Rogers

George Rebane

MichaelR 955pm - welcome back and thanks for setting the record straight. Could please expand on how does the TPP "oppose (local control and decentralization) for people economically."?

Thecommoncapitalist

Thanks George. Quite a thread going on at Pelline's blog about your eating habits.

It seems that when I bring up the concept that we can have what I call "corporate democracy" (this is what I have in mind when I talk about "good middle class jobs with benefits"), that I am targeted by conservative Tea Party folks as a socialist, progressive. You had talked about it as "constitutional partnership corporations" and in my mind it is as far from socialist and progressive as was the democratization of government by American Patriots in 1776 (which some conservatives today might have called socialism, but I think we both know was not for very specific system design reasons).

There does seem like an unwillingness in the TPP to analyze the authoritarian/monarchical aspects of current corporate organizational structure. This may be because many TPP are small business people and are fearful of what would happen to their enterprises if their, maybe irresponsible, employees had an equal say in business decisions. But just to be clear, I do not think small businesses should be democratically structured. The reality is that small business people put in far more commitment, and risk far more, in creating a small business than the employees (and often receive less of the resources of the enterprise as well), and they deserve every penny they earn.

I think my concepts of corporate democracy should only be applied to large, complex corporate structures to insure that they are managed by "tight feedback control systems" so that they are more organizationally adaptive, resilient, and distribute organizational benefits based on who earned it, and not simply who's granddaddy did.

I also do not want to impose legislation to force existing business to change, I want to be involved in creating new businesses to compete against them in the marketplace for resources, employees, investors, and customers.

I am eager to engage conservatives on this issue because I share the fear of socialist bureaucracy (politically and economically) and the individual tyranny of "common good" (which is why this is definitely not a cooperative, which are organizationally steeped in those traditions). I am eager to get the input of the TPP to insure that what I have been working on for 25 years is inoculated against that evil and finds its inspiration more in the founding concepts of American political democracy than any socialist or progressive organizational design parameters.

Also, I have to admit that, on a personal level, I have come to respect your opinions and when you suggest that I am not "flying in tight formation", it bums me out.

MichaelR

George Rebane

Thecommoncapitalist 1226pm - My apologies Michael, I went on the slivers of text that are on your card. What you say here is very much in line with the business philosophy of most TPP members. Readers who are interested in the discussions we had about constitutional partnership corporations would enjoy reading the posts (one by MichaelR), links, and comment threads here - http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/11/a-new-corporate-vision-the-constitutional-partnership-corporation.html

Perhaps your formation keeping with this conservetarian is much tighter than your card implies.

Thecommoncapitalist

Many progressives are calling me a crackpot, but I think the "experts" have messed things up so much that maybe we need some crackpots. So, here is a crackpot idea --

1) The TPP organizes a constitutional convention for the drafting of a constitution for the Nevada County Constitutional Partnership Corporation (NCCPC). Anyone in the county who gets 30 proxies from registered voters in the county can be a delegate. The convention is organized online using bulletin boards and other near-zero cost coordination tools -- Nevada County voters are welcome review and comment, but maybe on certain forums only delegates can post.

2) The constitution is submitted for ratification by 2/3rds of the represented residents at the convention.

3) If ratified, a $2.5 Billion JobBond is placed before all the citizens of the county. The capital generated from the bond would be managed by 5 representative capital councils for each district in the county with $500 million each to fund the creation of the NCCPC. These councils will have the decisions on where to invest their share.

For instance, if 4 of the 5 councils decide that a bank is one business to build, then they can send representatives to a countywide bank council. Rather than creating four banks, they might decide to create one bank where each district has branches. The local branches could have certain inalienable rights but agree to give up some autonomy to gain security or non-zero sum benefits. In the case of underwriting guidelines, the 4 branches could chose to agree upon system wide underwriting criteria to insure that no one branch can risk the whole bank. Additionally, they most likely would decide each to contribute funds for one computer system that all the branches use.

The JobBond serves the conservative goals of local control, small government, and a vibrant economy. The JobBond is not a budget item on county books. The County merely guarantees it, and a percentage of the profits could be dedicated to reducing the property taxes of permanent residents in perpetuity as compensation. Local investors would be given the first opportunity to invest at a coupon premium, then outside investors would be allowed to invest at a less desirable coupon. JobBond funds would only be advanced when there is a specific project and where there are investors willing to invest in that portion of the bond authority.

As the NCCPC gains political and economic power, we start demanding the block granting of our taxes back to us for education, healthcare, unemployment, etc. Also, the $2.5 billion bond will remove the payment of taxes on the income on that amount. It will also return exported capital back home and "starve" the beasts of State and Federal government, the big banks, and Wall Street in one fell swoop.

As for the selection of candidates for public service, the NCCPC could implement an internal judgment aggregation process and, once final picks are made, everyone in the organization could be committed to getting them elected. We could also pass instant recall legislation so that any representative who was voting in a way that was not as directed, then they could be easily removed.

Once I started thinking about corporations as a force for supporting the establishment of Justice, the insurance of domestic Tranquility, the provision for the common defense, the promotion of the general Welfare, and as a tool to secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, it changed everything. If I am a crackpot, then I am at least in the company of giant crackpots from American history (although not in their league).

That said, these are just my ideas. I really do mean to represent the 5th district and if given the privilege of serving I will actually work on whatever they tell me to.

Michael Rogers.

Account Deleted

As usual, Keachie defends his position by straw man arguments and sideways logic. I never said unions caused racism. But they did their damnest to continue it. I love your time line that ends in 1955 with full racial harmony in this country. President Roosey happily signed the most racist legislation the legislature sent him, so I wouldn't trot him out as some kind of savior of the oppressed. Blacks were still discriminated against in the govt and in private industry for decades after your fabricated union nirvana of 1955. Since you couldn't even apply for many jobs with out being a member of the union, and the unions wouldn't let you be a member if you were black, how is that management's fault? And you seem to have no defence against the rampant corruption and violence I mentioned. Unions have their place, but we need to be realistic and admit that greedy union contracts and their monopolistic control have led to job loss in this country as well as a loss of freedoms that are guaranteed in the Constitution. As to your idea that teachers need to be the new conduit of wealth in this country, I would say -why limit it to teachers? Why not have govt agents stand on street corners and hand out cash to everyone passing by? I'm sure that we could hand out a few trillion every week. Kids wouldn't even have to go to school. Just run down to the corner money man and get everything they need. Life is good.

Douglas Keachie

I never said 1955 was the final plateau, either. In the interest of saving space, I did not go on to cover, the entire civil rights movement with unionized farmer workers for all. The incident on the tarmac clearly indicates that we still have a long ways to go. Make that a black governor and Bush the President on the other end of the finger. The Tea Potters all around the country would go Bikini nuclear.

Teachers are in a position to sense and learn more about which families are really needy.

We already know what the answer is to job loss and unions. Unless the American worker was willing to work for the same as the workers abroad, plus the savings in shipping, the jobs were going abroad, and they did. It is more than obvious that the collective corporate minds valued their individual bottom lines over our traditional American culture and values, and they did so en masse, and they have no intentions of stopping. It is they who sitting on two trillion in cash have chosen to trash the economy and go back to the Old Gold Standard of racism.

Despite being stuck with a black wunderkind who can think circles around 99% plus of the rest of the country, a man who takes pride in his body and athletic prowess, and who can sing even, the dogged right insists on trying to destroy the country while he is in office, because they need him, to be "just another inferior black" that they can point to, to bolster the egos of what was once a majority white working force, before the right needed cheap workers in the fields, who went on to be cheap housekeepers and gardeners, and then not so cheap successful entrepreneurs. Those who controlled the purse strings have forged them into nooses for all.

When Obama is re-elected this Novemeber, I hope the right will put the country ahead of their individual bottom lines.

George Rebane

I'm always amazed how progressives always raise the race card out of nowhere. Is it because all other arguments have failed or ...? How in hell does Obama's race have anything to do with what we are talking?

Gregory

George, that isn't "progressives" speaking, that's Keachie. It's how he thinks. Bizarre, isn't it?

I think with traffic at Pelline's just a dribble, he's decided this is a great place to hang out and trash.

Gregory

Scott O, 26 January 2012 at 04:11 PM

Actually, Quantum Mech isn't all that old. Perhaps the first text, Introduction to Quantum Mechanics by Vladimir Rojansky (a nice guy who was treated with great respect by Richard Feynman), was first published in 1938. Einstein's understanding of the photoelectric effect (an early QM triumph) was published in 1905 but wasn't recognized with the Nobel Prize for it until 1921.

I'd be happy if everyone teaching elementary mathematics was completely facile with 14th Arabic algebra and science teachers were competent in 19th century chemistry and physics with just enough more modern knowledge to not say something really wrong.

Douglas Keachie

"How in hell does Obama's race have anything to do with what we are talking?"

We are talking unions and discrimination, and I was accused of harboring the notion that 1955 represented a final plateau for stable and equal race relations. I was indicating that I hold no such views, believe that racial issues are on-going, (and adversely affecting the governance of this nation) and I challenge you to come up with a photo showing any citizen doing a finger wag within the personal space of a sitting President. You can't, and every tabloid out there has certainly tried in the last 24 hours.

Douglas Keachie

For a truly funny unintentional photo essay, try this link: https://www.google.com/search?q=president+finger+wag&hl=en&lr=&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=7LgjT8O9MeeSiAK7ienJBw&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=843

Gregory

So, it's racist for a blond female Governor (a high elected office) to point her finger at a black President during an argument on the tarmac on her home turf? Fascinating.

Douglas Keachie

It is definitely rude. See previous challenge in post above yours. You can't do it, right? You are missing something, Greg, there is a huge difference between pointing at a President from 30 paces, and actually invading his personal space with her bony finger. My favorite cartoon about the incident shows an aid handing Obama a bucket of water, and her plainly made out to be from the Wizard of Oz, and not as Dorothy.

George Rebane

DougK 1252am - Your perspective that the finger pointing was racist, rather than topical to the dispute about the contents of the governor's book about Obama, is remarkable. I would agree that when Obama opened up the book topic on the tarmac, her more measured response could have been, 'Mr President, you are my guest and I am your host in Arizona, and I would prefer that we discuss this matter out of the public eye, at which time I'd be glad to address all of your concerns. But given that we are here and that the cameras are rolling, let's put on our smiles and get through the day as best we can. OK?'

But Doug, your quick charge of racism brings up larger point which deserves its own post. And that is the breakdown of our culture over the last fifty years, a significant part of which is how today we have come to structure and acknowledge personal relationships, that allows (celebrates?) unilateral deconstruction from the formal to the familiar. I posit that during his tenure as President, Barack Obama has done more than his share of dimming the aura of the presidency by his folksy backslapping, hugging, kissing, bowing, scraping, ... and other carefully designed populist affectations.

Douglas Keachie

http://abcnews.go.com/watch/world-news-with-diane-sawyer/SH5585921/VD55166376/world-news-126-president-obama-exclusive-interview

It amazes me that so little is actually shown or heard about this encounter. There is just one photo? There is no audio? I do note that Obama did come down the steps rather quickly, and may have actually moved into what Brewer viewed as her personal space. My guess is that most of the camerapeople were waiting for them to get closer to get good stills. Without the finger, the photo would have gone nowhere.

Do you have evidence that the conversation was about the book? Best I've gotten was that it was perhaps an invitation to tour the border, but that's just from blogs, and I'll seldom use them as sources.

Douglas Keachie

Oh, after enduring 60 seconds of ad from ABC, (mute on) go to 8 minutes in to see the sequence between Brewer and Obama.

Douglas Keachie

"I posit that during his tenure as President, Barack Obama has done more than his share of dimming the aura of the presidency by his folksy backslapping, hugging, kissing, bowing, scraping, ... and other carefully designed populist affectations."

Well King Gingrich will certainly have none of that during his first 8 years of his reign. Anyone who tries it will wind up in the stockade at the Moonbase.

Douglas Keachie

As for Brewer, she looks like she could use a teleprompter herself. You can ignore the blog here, but do look at the video, that can't lie.

http://www.politicususa.com/en/behind-jan-brewers-tall-tales-of-intimidation-hides-a-dishonest-despot

George Rebane

DougK 1123am - Fox News carried an interview with Brewer where she described the encounter. She said the President immediately launched into his treatment in her recent book.

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