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21 May 2012

Comments

Todd Juvinall

On Sunday nights CSPAN airs "Prime Ministers Questions" from the British Parliament. I try to watch it when I can. Last night Cameron (conservatives) was under attack by the Labour Party (socialists) PM's and he kicked their asses. They had power for 13 years and he is trying to save the country from their wayward spending. They are supposedly now in a second recession (I think it is the continuation of the first one) and so money is tight. The Questions there are the same as here regarding the mess of healthcare and schools. I would think our brainiacs in DC would listen and learn and not duplicate the English mistakes but it appears not to be. I think all austerity proponents will get booted because the freebies of other people's money is now overtaking the people who actually do the work. We cannot let that happen here. Speaker Boehner had a really good speech on the very thing the British are experiencing. Marco Rubio did as well this weekend. But, if they would simply take Tom McClintock's ideas we would fix things pretty quick. I am not optimistic.

Ryan Mount

> Everyone with an ability to buy popcorn at a movie should now understand

I have great difficultly with this. But I am not developmentally delayed as much as I do not understand why it is so #$@-!@#$ inefficient.

1) Scoop Popcorn out of the warm, glass thingie.

2) Into bag (note these are discrete steps for a teenager)

3) Add the warm yellow goo

4) Scoop more popcorn into bag (note, again, the explicit instructions and the preposition here)

5) Clumsily plop the bag onto the counter aggressively being sure to spill a majority of it onto the counter and onto the lobby floor.

6) Look at customer with scorn and contempt as it was their fault (invoke feeling of your parents if needed)

7) Take customers money, look puzzled as you desperately try and leverage your 6th grade math.

8) After 3 minutes of staring at the cash register, enter the amount into the register and wait for the machine to tell you the amount. This is called "change"

9) Open the register with your buttery hands and retrieve the exact amount the register tells you.

10) Hand the "change" back to the customer in balls of bills. The customer will undoubtedly cup his or her hands to receive the change and this is the perfect opportunity to pour the metal things (we call these things coins) into their hands.

11) Stare forward blankly as if you're looking at something 10,000ft away. This is the signal for the customer to slide to the right.

12) Repeat procedure with next customer.


I think vending machines could do a better job that your average disinterested teenager.

> destroyed 750 secure long-lasting jobs; worse, sent them overseas to cheap steel [snip]

The partisan complaining is going to get unbearable during the run-up to the election. Romney didn't send any jobs overseas that weren't already going there. Wanna blame someone? Blame the economy and the Neo-Liberal investments (both public/government and private) overseas. Yeah, the only aid we really want to give a 3rd world country is rice, peanut butter and numerous George Clooney visits. Heaven forbid if we make them smart too.

BTW, they don't want Angelina Jolie nor Madonna, word has it, because they keep taking their children.

billy T

I am pessimistic as well concerning the local and global view of the economic/fiscal/political stuff. We fail to heed the warnings of numerous examples from the Roman Empire to life in the Golden State. The California legislature has washed its hands of fixing anything and left it to us voters to do the heavy lifting (and take all the blame) in November by voting to raise taxes. Nothing coming out of the ballot measures or The State House does anything to reduce the deficit. The tax increases will go to feed the status quo. No politico want to take the heat, from CA to DC to Euroland. How many of those debt reduction blue ribbon commissions have been ignored...until after the election? Stupid question. Answer: all of them. Maryland just declared people making 100k are now rich. Talk about the dumbing down of millionaires. The new tax on rich passed and it is retroactive to the first of this year. Not enough time for employers to make payroll adjustment on teachers and firefighters, so they will be taking home less to do catch up for the last 5 months. Guess Maryland did not learn her lesson when their previous millionaires' tax resulted in the flight of people and created a net loss for the state. People nowadays are stuck and "the new rich, i.e. the 100kers, are ready to make tracks out of Maryland IF they could sell their homes, lol. Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place. BTW, the new tax will be going towards a 2% raise in public workers' salaries. Well, guess we are going "down, down, down to the ring of fire, the ring of fire."

George Rebane

I know that correlation doesn't necessarily imply causality, but it is tempting to blame the sea air for addling the brains of coastal voters - in the aggregate, of course.

Douglas Keachie

"Maryland just declared people making 100k are now rich. Talk about the dumbing down of millionaires. The new tax on rich passed and it is retroactive to the first of this year. Not enough time for employers to make payroll adjustment on teachers and firefighters, so they will be taking home less to do catch up for the last 5 months."

Teachers, unless there are two of them in a family, do not make $100,000 a year. Of course if riproaring inflation sets in, even a shoe shine person will be "rich"

BTW: I don't give a damn if Obama was born on Mars. He's a good man, and deserves respect, for trying to deal with the near impossible task he's chosen to take on. Growing useless stickervines to tangle his feet does not help the country. All the right wants to do is make sure they hang onto everything they got, as we all go down, and have no solutions that will actually do anything to pump the bilges and keep the USA afloat.

Douglas Keachie

Well George, that might explain John Paul Jones's "Don't Give Up the Ship!" Except in Tea Party Land (even 130 miles inland), that has now been changed to "Don't Give Up the Stuff!" except they use a word that makes it rhyme with the original.

George Rebane

DougK 1022am - actually, the solutions abound, have been offered continuously and by the boatload. Government doesn't do a good job in spending the money they suck out of the economy. Do a lot less of that, and trust the people to create wealth and jobs when their freedoms are restored and regulations minimized.

But the liberal mind firmly believes that the government taking a bigger bite of the GDP (now about 40+% at all levels) will not affect individual initiative and propensity to take risk. The Europeans invented this tenet and now have their collective tits in a wringer as their governments exceed 50% of GDP and NOTHING any longer is sustainable.

If he looked a mite more Irish, we'd call Obama 'Wrong Way Corrigan'. There is no shame in trying to straighten out someone who is steering the ship of state toward a waterfall.

Russ Steele

Here is some insight in to how well Obama's Go Green initiatives are working out. Remember these were your tax dollars flushed down the bankruptcy crapper.

Filed Bankruptcy:

Solyndra
Beacon Power
Ener1
Range Fuels
Solar Trust of America
Spectrawatt
Evergreen Solar
Eastern Energy
Unisolar
Bright Automotive
Olson's Crop Service
Energy Conversion Devices
Sovello
Siag
Solon
Q-Cells
Mountain Plaza

Teetering on the Brink:

Abound Solar
A123 Systems
Brightsource Energy
Fisker Automotive
First Solar
Nevada Geothermal
SunPower
Nordex
The Bard Group
Amonix
NRG Energy
Alterra Power
Enel Green Power
Sunpower Corp

billy T

John Paul Jones? Think our President is more like Admiral David Glasgow Farragut who said "Damn the torpedoes, full steam again."

Douglas Keachie

How much of this do you disagree with?

USAMoneyBudget copy

Douglas Keachie


~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mobile_Bay ~

"This time the ships he was facing were in motion, and he had to contend with three monitors, not one. Because Tennessee was so slow she, rather than her opponents, became the target of ramming. Several of the Federal sloops managed to ram, including one, Monongahela, that had been fitted with an iron shield on her bow just for this purpose. None of the collisions harmed the ironclad; in every case, the ramming vessel suffered more. Shots from Farragut's fleet bounced off Tennessee's armor, but the effectiveness of the Tennessee's was lessened by inferior powder and multiple misfires.[42]"

I wonder which budget cutter bought the inferior powder from the lowest bidder, capitalism and government graft at work together?

Douglas Keachie

BTW, Farragut got lucky and won the battle for the Union. As for the quote:

"Damn the torpedoes
A World War I recruitment poster featuring David Farragut at Mobile Bay.

Most popular accounts of the battle relate that when Brooklyn slowed when Tecumseh crossed her path, Farragut asked why she was not moving ahead. When the reply came back that torpedoes were in her path, he is said to have said, "Damn the torpedoes." The story did not appear in print until several years later, and some historians ask whether it happened at all.[51] Some forms of the story are highly unlikely; the most widespread is that he shouted to Brooklyn, "Damn the torpedoes! Go ahead!" Men present at the battle doubted that any such verbal communication could be heard above the din of the guns. More likely, if it happened, is that he said to the captain of Hartford, "Damn the torpedoes. Four bells,[52] Captain Drayton." Then he shouted to the commander of Metacomet, lashed to Hartford's side, "Go ahead, Jouett, full speed." The words have been altered in time to the more familiar, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!"

(same source as above)

billy T

Nice graph, Mr. Keachie. George Walker Bush added 6.1 trillion over 8 years, or an average of 763 billion per year. Barrack Husein Obama added 2.4 trillion over 2 years, or an average of 1.2 trillion per year. See no newnews in the graph, Mr. Keachie.

Douglas Keachie

Did Obama personally add to the debt, or did the multinats who run the global economy reduce the tax intake of the IRS? Ultimately, the government is dependent on the economy, not the other way around.

Douglas Keachie

BTW, wasn't posting as good news or bad news, just as a convenient knowledge anchor baby, that we can all keep in mind when commenting.

billy T

Noticed Farragut's middle name is Glasgow. Wonder if that is Greek or Norwegian?

Douglas Keachie

"Full, prudent, speed ahead" Obama's gas policy: http://www.whitehouse.gov/energy/

Helium prices are through the roof, BTW, if you can get it at all. It is extracted from natural gas, as once it gets to the surface, it heads straight up, and can't be extracted from ground level atmosphere captures.

Glasgow ia obviously Russian, like Moscow. another sneaky Commie!

Ryan Mount

Obama, as did Presidents before him, drafted a budget as per his executive prerogative and sent if over to the Congress. The Congress then chewed it up into a mass of mushy things and sent if back to him, half eaten and with gooey bits of pork and a trace amount of Republican tears.

Meanwhile, out in Rough and Ready, they had raised enough funds to build a Tuff Shed™. Representative McClintock, seized some of that Obama/Congressional/Magical spending and built them a new Fire House. Well he didn't actually do the work, just in case you were wondering.

http://mcclintock.house.gov/2009/09/rep-tom-mcclintock-announces-grant-money-awarded-to-rough-and-ready-fire-department-for-new-fire-sta.shtml

Given the tone and tenor of these discussions, and the fact this is a real thing done(a fire house) with real (OK, it might not be real but borrowed, printed or whatever) money for real people (Rough and Ready), I would hope people would look at something like this with cooler heads given that we have an arch-conservative, spending Obama's/Congress'/Magical faux money on what are perhaps the most independent-minded community that I know of. (my apologies for the run-on sentence and the over-use of hyphens, commas, and parenthetical phases. I'd also like to extend my apologies to the lovely people of Rough and Ready. They're well armed.)

When you mix all that together, it's an absurd jumble of facts. Then again, that's America in a nutshell.

Douglas Keachie

Little Old Lady from Rough and Ready:

GrannyGunner copy

billy T

Mr. Mount, they built a new firehouse in Washoe County as well, despite opposition from the county and fire chief. They don't have the manpower to staff it, nor the vehicles or money to open it up and use it. Now they are stuck with the maintenance and upkeep costs. That is our Great White Father in Washington in a nutshell.

Ryan Mount

OK. Bad Washoe County. Good Nevada County. Seems like [gasp] Representative McClintock is better than Representative Heller and Amodei.

How is this Obama's fault?

George Rebane

RyanM 1255pm - It's the fault of all those who opt and work tirelessly for ever bigger government? And we can add those who are too busy or dumb to care what direction government is taking?

Ryan Mount

I'm not excusing the spending, nor any mismanagement. I am criticizing this desire to blame someone.

“Everybody wants to save the world but nobody wants to help mom with the dishes.” ― P.J. O'Rourke

That pretty much sums it up for me. It reminds me of a refrain I hear when people complain about their ex-spouses: well, you married him/her didn't you?

But with regards to our government, one more from Mr. O'Rourke:

“Authority has always attracted the lowest elements in the human race. All through history, mankind has been bullied by scum. Those who lord it over their fellows and toss commands in every direction and would boss the grass in the meadow about which way to bend in the wind are the most depraved kind of prostitutes. They will submit to any indignity, perform any vile act, do anything to achieve power. The worst off-sloughings of the planet are the ingredients of sovereignty. Every government is a parliament of whores. The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us.”

It seems to me it's "the other guy's government" that is causing all of the trouble, not mine.

Russ Steele

McClintock was able to get money for the Rough and Ready Fire house because it was the only true "shovel ready" project in the County, and maybe all of his District. When I was in the Air Force, early in my career as Captain, a very senior MSgt taught me how to create shovel ready projects. Do all the planning possible including the costing and then put the project in the desk drawer. The MSgt said, some morning someone will come to the office door and tell you the Base has spend x millions of dollars before the end of the fiscal year and there will be a meeting at 1400 hours. According to my mentor, you do not go to the meeting. While everyone else is at the meeting, he said you head for the procurement with your plans and procurement package that has been waiting in the desk drawer for the last six months. When I retired from the Air Force and joined TRW, I taught my government customer how to create end of fiscal year "shovel ready projects." The TRW lab was highly successful, once we got our customers trained.

Account Deleted

re: Keach at 10:22 - "I don't care if he's born on Mars". Well put, lefty. The law means nothing to the left unless they think they can use it against the folks they don't agree with. I'll remember this next time you yammer about some one breaking the law. You've put yourself outside of reasoned conversation on more than one posting, but this is rich. Obama is a crooked Chicago pol from the old school. Keach thinks this is fine. Then he complains about corruption. Not enough graft going your way, Keach? In the next reign of Obama you'll get your due.

Douglas Keachie

Scott, so you are smarter than the entire vetting system already in place in the US government? You think you know better than they whether or not Obama is a citizen? My comment is to show what fools all the birthers are, and so I suppose of course you'll use the latest tactic, "I am not a birther." You have no idea how silly it all sounds, just as silly as, "born on Mars." Come up with working plans with real numbers from real businesses that say they will start up and employ real people in sufficient real numbers to right the economy. Then you'll have something substantial with which to jumpstart a campaign. Romney's volt or two shy of engaging the starter, at this point, and the Birther plank is the one he'll wind up walking.

Telling me that you have good and sufficient reasons to doubt Obama's legitimate US Presidential qualified citizenship puts you, Scott, totally outside "reasoned conversation." Flogging a totally proven dead horse does not impress the American people. If you can come up with evidence such that Obama is actually removed from office, I will give you $10,000. So get on it! Easy Money! Krej!

billy T

Men are from Mars, libs are from some other planet.

George Rebane

DougK 740pm - do we understand correctly that your reasoned response to the birther arguments is that your mind is made up and the debate is over? And anyone who doesn't agree with this proposition is "totally outside 'reasoned conversation'"?

Douglas Keachie

In a nutshell, YES! Not only is my mind made up, so is Michelle Bachman's and a unanimous vote of the House of Representatives.

BTW, I feel the same way about gravity as a constant. As far as I can tell you all are like time wasting kids in school arguing that maybe some of the time 2 + 2 does NOT = 4. When I went to get a copy of my own birth certificate recently, the clerk spent quite some time with it. It seems my mom came in and changed something, but the illegible scribble which had been transferred to microfilm, was just plain not readable. So does that make me not an American eligible for President? Hell no! If you claim to support your country, but are going to do so by wasting time with this total fantasy, you are really intent on bringing about its demise through wasted time. BTW, five years ago I was not on your blog as any kind of regular, if at all.

Andersonmichael

George, I will join with Ryan in once again debunking the Singularity meme, and this time I will use as a data point the fact that Typepad mangled my ability to log in with Google, so I had to create a new persona to comment here.

Until Typepad shows more signs of innate intelligence, I don't see how it is even fathomable that something as complicated as the Singularity could possibly be in our future (-;

Account Deleted

Keach, I can only go by what you say. You clearly stated you don't care if he is not eligible to be president by law. Don't you think it would be hypocritical of you to demand anyone else to follow established law on this or any other topic? Whether or not he is eligible is another matter. I have no special information on this topic. It is strange that Obama has had the opportunity to clear it up (present his original certificate) and refuses to do so. It also appears that he allowed or enjoyed being thought of as Kenyan born for quite a few years. My thought on the subject is that he does seem to not want a thorough, open review of his life. Currently he is POTUS and we will have to deal with his corrupt administration as is.

billy T

Trying to stay on topic, 1) Obamacare predicted 4 million small businesses would sign up for the Obamacare Tax Credit. Only 175,000 have even applied. Reasons are the forms are too complicated, too much red tape, too many forms, credit is on sliding scale, recipients received only partial credit, etc. Government has a way of making a mountain out of a molehill. The elitists scoff at the idea of simplicity. If it is simple and understandable, it must be wrong. As far as Obama being a Kenyan or from Mars, here is a bio of Obama used from 1991 thru 2007. Suddenly it was dropped from the jacket after 16 years. Hmmm. Maybe he did apply for foreign aid student loans. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

Gregory

I have complete confidence in the absolute fact that Obama will be thoroughly vetted after he leaves office. Or at least after he becomes a lame duck.

Brad Croul

I am pretty sure Obama is a "natural citizen" in that he was born here, or born somewhere else of a US citizen. Why people continue to lose sleep over this is beyond me.

What ever happened to the notion that this birther vs. Bain stuff is all just political noise?

The gloom an doom reporting of this, or that, failure in the solar industry also means that their are opportunities for "the Bains" of the world. All that idle manufacturing capacity can still be put to use to help with our peak electrical demands.

http://solarindustrymag.com/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.10075

George Rebane

BradC 751am - Pray, what possible "idle manufacturing capacity" are you referring to that "can still be put to use to help with our peak electrical demands."?

Brad Croul

I am referring to the Russ S. list above of all the bankrupt solar manufacturers assuming they are facilities, like Solyndra, sitting idle, waiting for orders from customers.

Maybe I am mistaken. Are those "bankrupt" solar companies running at capacity andt just seeking protection from creditors?

Todd Juvinall

The Solyndra campii is vacanr (I personally saw this). All the innerds are sold and all the employees are gone. The only things left are the bonuses being paid to the management.

George Rebane

DougK 107am - I'm afraid you have a double confusion here. You're addressing here a comment thread on 'Knowledge Engines', and you're taking my parenthetical remark there to refer to you personally; it was meant to address the general. Also please check the nature of the "unanimous vote". BTW, no one thinks any longer that Obama's birthplace issue has any basis in reason and fact, like AGW it is now purely a matter of political expediency and faith (as your hearfelt made up mind testifies).

Ryan Mount

George, there appears to be a couple of Singularity comments in this thread. Weird. I wonder if something hiccuped?

I have also visited the large, vacant Solyndra campus in Fremont/Milpitas during a recent trip to Ohlone college. It's eerie and maddening.

Douglas Keachie

My reasoned response was that the FBI, the CIA, and others in charge of vetting the President were and are far more qualified to do the vetting than any of us here are, or even Orly, who doesn't understand that 35% beats 11% every time:

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?page_id=33349

Once I reasoned that through, I took a stand, you have a problem with that? Or do you prefer the opposite approach, taking a stand and then finding reasons to support it? That's seems to be the logic path of those who believe Obama should not be President.

Douglas Keachie

"All the innerds are sold and all the employees are gone"

which means those innards have provided other businesses with equipment at good prices to begin production, and the workers are now part of labor pool those new owners can draw on. Nothing is lost in a capitalistic society, now is it? Except maybe empty houses being allowed to implode by the banks who won't put them on the market, and instead will allow vandals and deferred maintenance to trash the nation's housing stock.

Brad Croul

I wonder who bought all the Solyndra equipment? China?

Douglas Keachie

"The giant Solyndra Plant, oh what a shame, built just for solar panels, as such great expense, wasteful wasteful wasteful! The horror, the horror!" Probably will be part of a SuperPAC attack ad in the near future.

Give me a break!

"Toyota is pulling out of a California factory joint venture it had previously run with General Motors — the first time the Japanese automaker is closing a major auto assembly plant ever.

Toyota Motor Corp. said Friday it will stop production at its Fremont, California-based New United Motor Manufacturing Inc., or NUMMI, in March 2010, and will move production to its other plants in the U.S., Canada and Japan.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/san-francisco/755266-fremont-gm-toyota-plant-close-milpitas.html#ixzz1vcgMcNn3 "

My brother ran out of air and landed his glider in the parking lot, way back when, before GM (the original builder) had even finished building the plant, and the light poles were not in place. Passed it myself just the other day, nary a thought.

Ryan Mount

We still haven't solved the popcorn issue. I find this frustrating.

George Rebane

DougK 1054am - Good explanation. It is indeed reasonable to accept the implied verdict (the FBI has never offered an explicit one) of a trusted agent or agency, if dealing with original evidence is not possible or accessible.

And I have many more reasons why Obama should not be President than where he was born or not. These pages are testimony to that. My interest in his constitutional qualifications arose only after it became clear that this man is the most systematically opaque President in our country's history. As did many others who did not accept him as Messiah, I asked why and am still looking for the most plausible explanations. As to how I reason on the matter, I am a Bayesian (see Kessner's piece and my previous posts on such reasoning).

Douglas Keachie

Mr. Getz only hires the brightest and best for his theaters, and features them prominently in photographs in the lobby. Surely you are not talking about our local theaters!

Douglas Keachie

mea culpa,

Towntalk "12:24
Comment From Guest
Sir Paws, you're wrong as the plant (1055 page Fremont) was built in 1993 (as I designed the cleanrooms in the brand new building) as it was originally built by HMT Technology. You're thinking of the NUMMI facility which is @1 mile north. "

Wrong building, but all the rest is good. Not sure where I picked up the notion that it was located at NUMMI.

billy T

I read an article a few months back (maybe a couple of months) stating that Solyndra was trashing the innards. It was a news item for a day or two. I thought at the time "why don't they sell it as salvage to another company instead of hauling to the dump all the silicon panels." But, the outrage over the executive compensation pushed that news aside. Figures that if they did not put any of their own money into it, then it stands to reason they gave the panels no value and they got more money from the government after that just to keep the lawyers on payroll. Yes, not every company is a Solyndra as there are numerous more egregious examples than little ole Solyndra. Second point is I never bothered much to research President Obama's birth or who, what, when, why, how, or to what extent. I got nowhere except the President's own words in his books. Like, Obama said HE did coke at Columbia U, but I am been unable to get more details or even substantiate Candidate Obama's own words. Guess we just have to take Obama at his word. Can't even find one single roommate of his or even if he had one solitary friend. Guess we just have to take his word for it as there is too much water under the bridge today. Hey, if his mommie was a citizen with white parents from Kansas, I suppose that makes him a citizen of the USofA. When you think about it, you can be Shoeless Joe and still run for Prez. Heck, you could have spent zero milliseconds reading about law or even be a high school dropout and still be appointed to the Supreme Court. The impending doom ahead of us is more important. The abyss awaits us unless we change course in dramatic fashion. I do like the idea that many have gone underground and got smoother and more effective. Heck, the left even thinks the Tea Party with their silly constitutional "idears" have climbed back under the rocks not to see the light of day again. Excuse me, have you seen what happened in the recent primaries? Poor Arlen Spector. Poor other Rhinos. Poor ole WI unions wasting all that money to recall Walker. Yep, we wait like an army hidden in an arroyo before emerging again. No need to waste time on birther issues, albeit it is a nice distraction before the battle begins.

Andersonmichael

George claimed: "BTW, no one thinks any longer that Obama's birthplace issue has any basis in reason and fact..." (my emphasis in bold)

Really? No one? Not a single person on the planet?

This is what I do know. President Obama is a natural-born citizen as outlined in the US Constitution and as has been interpreted by the courts. If this nonsense rises to the point where there is a serious attempt to remove him from office, it will go all the way to the Supreme Court. And the birthers will lose.

I am willing to wager $100 dollars on my interpretation of this scenario. George, will you take my bet?

Douglas Keachie

You would think that if enough of a certain born religion got together they could ask God where Obama was born the first time?

George Rebane

MichaelA 200pm - By "no one" I meant all the other serious people on the planet not counting the 'birthers'. With present evidence discounted, I don't believe that any of these 'serious people' will throw in with the birthers to attempt anything such as the removal of the President.

However, you bring up an interesting point. If the birthers were able to get the matter heard by SCOTUS, and lose (as you predict), then I believe that President Obama would be a shoo-in for his second term. Which makes one think that if Obama's advisers had faith to match yours, then they could and should find a way to get the case in front of SCOTUS.

You want to bet me that with present (22may12) evidence that SCOTUS will rule in favor of Obama. I agree that the probability is high that it will. Therefore, if you want a bet, then give me some odds that reflect your faith. If new evidence comes to the fore, we can call the bet moot or re-negotiate.

Andersonmichael

I am willing to bet that if the question of whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen goes to the SCOTUS, its ruling will almost surely declare that he is a natural-born citizen. And I will hold to that bet, even "if new evidence comes to the fore."

George Rebane

MichaelA 248pm - did I just understand you to offer an even money bet? Even odds does not sound like the voice of conviction. I believe that SCOTUS will rule in Obama's favor with probability 0.95, therefore investing $100 for an expected return of $10 is a fool's bet. But then, maybe that designation was your very subtle and churchillian aim all along ;-)

Andersonmichael

Exactly. So the question then becomes, why do you still choose to write things like "Who knows where the man was actually born?"

George Rebane

MichaelA 815pm - you are confusing two independent factors, 1) SCOTUS response to the evidence, and 2) reasonable conclusions drawn from evidence presented and withheld. I happened to agree with Dr Kessner's analysis because it ties with what I have seen (and analyzed on my own PC) of the long form birth certificate, the response of Hawaii to Arizona's request, and the WH bullshit explanation of the publisher's promo material. Your judgment calls for you to believe the Democratic party line and the absence of a report from the FBI.

Andersonmichael

George, you completely misunderstand where I am coming from. Let's get some things straight about what I do and do not believe, OK?

1. I believe and agree that President Obama has a past that we don't know about and there are records, and perhaps legal documents, we can't access. These records may, or may not, prove that he was untruthful. I don't give a rip.

2. And I don't give a rip about the Democratic party line either. They can rot in hell for all I care.

3. I believe and agree that SCOTUS will never decide that President Obama is not a natural born citizen, as defined by the US Constitution. NEVER. (Well, almost surely NEVER, as I posited above.)

4. I believe that the whole discussion about Obama's presidential worthiness is a very disturbing distraction from what we should be talking about in this campaign, as well as unpatriotic. President Obama is a natural born citizen under the law, and no injustice has been proffered.

George, do you remember when Dan Rather purported to have uncovered documents authored by Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian regarding President Bush's poor service record in the Texas Air National Guard? That's on the same level as this birther nonsense. And for goodness sake, where Obama was born is a lot less portentous than a chicken hawk silver spoon who hid from Vietnam only to drag our military 30 yrs. later into a tragic middle east war that squandered copious amounts of American blood and treasure.

I'm just trying to help you not look like Dan Rather.

Douglas Keachie

Oh yeah, way back when some baby is born in Africa of an American mom and Kenyan dad. and all the folks there had the foresight to realize that he would some day manage to get himself into the running to be President of the USA, so they destroyed all the evidence that he was born there. The improbability factors involved would burn out your CPU.

Douglas Keachie

That kind of foresight did happen once. A bunch of wise guys were told in advance to meet up at a special spot after following a GPS in the sky. So I guess that makes Obama's mama the new Virgin Mary, and guess what, God must be black, it just didn't show so much the first time around.

Are we now done with this time wasting foolishness now? There's real work to be done.

BTW, that would be the ALU in the CPU, that burns out.

George Rebane

MichaelA 1101pm - Thanks for the clarification and the help. Equating Bush2's military record, which was neither unconstitutional nor remarkable in any way, with the debate over fulfilling a constitutional requirement for presidency is more than curious.

The fact that liberals don't give a "rip" about certain aspects of the Constitution does not make the question go away in the minds of millions of Americans. And adding the arguable damage that this President has done to the country, and now plans to double down on, makes all of his background rife for questioning. (No one has yet become President that has had such long and intimate relationships with communists, radical leftwingers, and public America haters.)

None of the opposition in such discussions (RR and other blogs) to Obama's legitimacy involves discussing the evidence. For example, in addition to what's already widely known, there are Kenyan officials and Obama's relatives who have presented documents and made sworn statements about his birth that should bear something more than a sniffing dismissal.

And finally, what adds to the mystery component here is the thundering silence of the leftwing lamestream media. An industry that still strongly shapes America's attitudes, and one that would leave no stone unturned had their target any conservative credentials.

My own discussions with Republican electeds and staff on the matter reveals nothing new. National politicians are not going to risk their careers and relationships on issues their polling says are non-starters, principles be damned. It was ever thus.

Douglas Keachie

The fact that 2/3rds of the country believes in one form or another of paranormal phenomena, does not make it an issue of public policy interest. Likewise those inspired by what is and always has been, political propganda spread by paid fear mongers like Rush and Savage, are simply not worthy of wasting time contemplating, because they'll hold those beliefs like Marvin the Robot waiting at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe for 20 million years.

Douglas Keachie

The records in Hawaii and the newspaper announcement totally trump anything from Kenya. Please post links to what you believe shows otherwise, and not to 2nd and 3rd hand information. You are degrading your blog to go on like this. Do you really want to be known as "Birth Bane?"

Douglas Keachie

"Birther Bane?"

Andersonmichael

George wrote: "My own discussions with Republican electeds and staff on the matter reveals nothing new. National politicians are not going to risk their careers and relationships on issues their polling says are non-starters, principles be damned."

Are you sure their lack of appreciation for principles is the reason? Maybe they don't believe the "evidence" you are presenting. Or perhaps they also recognize that no matter where Obama was born, because his mother was an American citizen at the time, Obama is a constitutionally-recognized natural-born citizen. Which means--in their minds anyway--there is NO DEBATE regarding whether or not Obama's birth "fulfill[s] a constitutional requirement for presidency." Perhaps they just don't share the fun in beating a dead horse to death over and over again.

Well anyway, I think we've both had a delightful time putting forth our opinions on this subject. I don't really have much more to say about it. Thanks for the conversation.

George Rebane

Reuters just announced that AZ has accepted Hawaii's certification of Obama's birth there without having to see his birth certificate.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/23/us-usa-arizona-birther-idUSBRE84M13G20120523

I agree with MichaelA's 957am that we've all aired our respective positions on this 'birther issue' sufficiently. I will stand with the Bayesian analysis explicated by Kissner as cited in the post. In sum, I am at least an agnostic on Obama's birthplace. Nuff said, thank you all.

Douglas Keachie

About time, I'm an agnostic with respect to whether or not George Rebane actually exists. He could be just a very advanced hologram projected by aliens into my universe.

Next question: Romney declares he can get unemployment down to 6%.

How does he plan to do this? By virtual of WHAT policies he will put in place?

George has already stated that he thinks we will hit 70 million unemployed by 2020, so obviously....?

George Rebane

DougK 1025am - a worthy subject of discussion indeed. My participation in it will await a subsequent piece that I'm preparing on the economy. The comment stream of that post would be a most suitable venue for that question.

Ryan Mount

Doug, George can't prove that he doesn't exist. Wait...maybe there's an app for that.

Gregory

We'll know much more about Obama after he leaves office and journalists of the left-liberal persuasion (i.e. most of them) are no longer in their current difficult position of the past five years, similar to that of a Christian Scientist with appendicitis.

Gregory

Don't let Keachie read this, but his entire reality really is a very advanced hologram projected by aliens into his personal universe.

Douglas Keachie

If Obama had been born in Estonia, and the church his birth was recorded had been destroyed during the war, they be blaming baby Obama for planting the bomb.

"All the world's a holodeck and we are but here to make our moves recite our lines. Some do them better than others."

Douglas Keachie

Unintentional eubonics ("they'd"), which brings up the question, how come the other side hasn't brought up "Obamics?" Or certainly its companion, "Obamanomics?" Maybe it is rather hard to fault his command of the English language? Or they don't want to be condemned to wearing a scarlet "R?"

Gregory

I rest my case.

Douglas Keachie

Good thing the expanding universe got started 10 - 15 billion years ago, so that now it is big enough for both of us.

Douglas Keachie

You've burned out your bearings in your crankcase because you forgot to put the oil in before starting.

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