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01 August 2012

Comments

billy T

Tommie, I am certain you would defend to the death my right to agree with you.

TomKenworth

Just as much as we would all defend this gun shop which is doing so much to promote a civil and intelligent discussion about the upcoming election:

The gun shop called "Sacramento Black Rifle" sells a t shirt that declares:

Obama loves America like
OJ loved Nicole.

6671 Blue Oaks Blvd
Rocklin, CA 95677

Get Directions
(916) 771-3553

George Rebane

BenE 1221pm - I'm sorry you didn't understand my 1137am; I meant nothing in that to be degrading to you in any way. All I meant to say is that your ideology and zeal in promoting it scares crap out of me. And I would not be surprised if you returned the compliment. However, please note that I have spent five years publicly outlining why your collectivist ideas are a danger to our way of life, and I have continually elicited reciprocation as to why my ideas would in any way be equally dangerous - to no avail.

Your citing the percentages of Americans who you believe agree with you ranges from the specious to the alarming. Most of those people couldn't find Europe on the map, name their Representative, or understand the sources of monies the government spends (remember "Obama's stash"). Besides, I have no idea how you mean to argue those percentages in the context of this discussion.

Paul Emery

George

I posted the time and date of the comment that I was referencing. Please check it out for clarity. I was commenting that I thought there would be no circumstances that you would support the WW11 style of internment our of supporting the rights of American citizens. Apparently there are circumstances that you would and it appears that you do support the WW11 actions. If that's not true let me know and I will stand corrected.

"Bottom line - yes, I believe that a nation-state may impound citizens who bear certain similarities to its existential enemy, and whose sentiments and intentions are not known."

I thought pledging allegiance to this country was a requirement of citizenship. Does that not make their "sentiments and intentions" known?

It took Ronald Reagan to offer some form of apology to the American citizens that were incarcerated.

Your personal history is an entirely different situation. We are talking about American citizens in this country who were imprisoned and their property confiscated. This also happened to a lesser degree to German and Italian Americans.

George Rebane

PaulE 158pm - Yes, now I see the date/time you inserted in the middle of your comment, but apparently it wasn't clear whose it was. I'm trying establish a convention of such replies here, and it's harder than I thought ;-)

Is the Pledge of Allegiance enough? Yes, both new, native, and old citizens all pledge many times in their lives. So did McVey and Maj Hassan. Does that make their sentiments known? NO!

Our government from the Revolutionary War onward incarcerated untrustworthy citizens/residents in times of national emergencies. Lincoln brought it to a high art, and it was continued through WW2. Even though I wrestle with the distasteful notion of such actions, I can't come up with a more benign or effective one. Can you?

And fear not that I'm confusing my own interment with that of US citizens by the US. (We were kept there as pawns in the pre-cold war game between the US and the USSR.) I only meant to communicate that we know the feeling and the reasonableness of such interments in the general sense.

Offering apologies in the aftermath, especially in light of injustices done, is only the decent thing and the least the government can do. Interesting that it took Reagan, an ex-CA governor and conservative, to do it.

In sum, don't think that I am waving the flag to have all American Muslims to be herded into the prepared FEMA camps on which I have reported here. I trust our loss of privacy to govt eves dropping is sufficient to vet the good from the bad among us.

Ben Emery

George,
That is nice to know that you aren't trying to be degrading. I get it, you really oppose a society based on the wishes and needs of the majority of the people. That's fine but I disagree.

The reason for citing percentages was to show my ideas and opinions on many issues aren't radical or fringe but instead are mainstream positions. I am about to scare the crap out of you even more, I would argue my ideology and positions would land me in the center left column. The current democratic party leadership takes a centrist right position on most issues due to their reliance of corporate and wealthy contributors to compete in elections. I would also argue your ideology and some on RR would land you in the far right column.

George Rebane

BenE 229pm - we're getting warmer. Your statement of my opposition to a society is a bit simplistic and somewhat off target, but it plays well.

I support the kind of society envisioned by the Founders - a democratic republic where the less well informed vote for representatives whom they can vet locally to champion their interests in the more complex world of a distant and pluralistic government. I oppose the standard fare of collectivists who pander 'democracy' to the ignorant as being the fastest way to an autocracy of their elite.

The above preference was institutionalized by the Founders, for they knew that simple democracies are short-lived because people in the aggregate are not able to translate "their wishes and needs" into public policy and legislation. Lying to them that they can, especially in the context of large multi-cultural populations, geographical regions, and complex international relations, begins the deviltry in democracy. Nevertheless, that message is the extremely effective tool of the Leftwing activist/politico, especially as it lands on the responsive ears of their cognitively disabled, educationally unprepared, and economically (pre)dependent constituencies.

I certainly hope that you are wrong about your position in the Left's political spectrum. From the sample of my Democrat friends, they would place you in the left fringe that is also disappointed with Obama's work and plans. However, for me to argue that point with you leads us on a sterile quest.

But I am most interested in what understandings of my ideological stance would have you place me "in the far right column."

THEMIKEYMCD

Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, etc) obese people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?

Possible basis: obese people add to medicare expense, use more resources, etc.

TomKenworth

For the average American racist idiot, the term "raghead" is too broad, as witness this:

"Sikh rights groups have reported a rise in bias attacks since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Washington-based Sikh Coalition has reported more than 700 incidents in the U.S. since 9/11, which advocates blame on anti-Islamic sentiment. Sikhs don't practice the same religion as Muslims, but their long beards and turbans often cause them to be mistaken for Muslims, advocates say.

Sikhism is a monotheistic faith that was founded in South Asia more than 500 years ago. It has roughly 27 million followers worldwide. Observant Sikhs do not cut their hair; male followers often cover their heads with turbans - which are considered sacred - and refrain from shaving their beards.

There are roughly 500,000 Sikhs in the U.S., according to estimates. The majority worldwide live in India.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/05/4694916/police-dispatcher-shooting-at.html#storylink=cpy"

I again suggest using the less inflammatory "I-Borg" to more precisely describe those who use the Muslim faith as window dressing as cameoflage for their wild efforts at world domination, with them, of course, at the top. Any Muslim clergyman who disagrees with them will himslef become a target for their anger. Too bad we can't separate out our racists and their racists and put them in an arena and close the doors and walk away.

George Rebane

TomK 1240pm - I appreciate your well made points, and will consider them in the wider promulgation of 'ragheads'. Fortunately the "average American racist idiot" is not likely among RR's readers, we are all above average ;-)

However, your maintaining that Islam is being used "as window dressing as cameoflage(sic) for their wild efforts at world domination" is beyond a stretch. For the large fraction (above 30%)of Muslims who condone and approve of suicide bombings, for the tens of thousands who have declared their intent to volunteer, for the thousands now standing in line for martyrdom, and for the well over a thousand who have already given their lives for their faith, you have a macabre sense of humor dismissing them all as using their Muslim faith for camouflaging an alternative ideology that has successfully invited such wholesale slaughters at the cost of the perpetrators' suicide. There is no evidence of such an alternative ideology being served by self-sacrifice.

Gregory

"I get it, you really oppose a society based on the wishes and needs of the majority of the people."

Ben, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are designed to keep us off the path of the French Revolution and the Cultural Revolution. No majority can usurp the rights of minorities, no matter who they be in whatever age. So claiming to represent "the people" doesn't buy you power. Even the Occupy Wall Street crowd managed to separate into an upper crust and a ghetto in the first 6 weeks. So much for the 99%. think more 88%/11%.


Interesting to see the Keachie sock and MAnderson getting together. Mike, you sure spend a lot of time trying to torment me rather than spend any time to right whatever the supposed wrong(s) is (are), which is one of the reasons why I don't take you seriously. Sounds like a conspiracy, or, to more fit Keachie's style, women's roller derby.

TomKenworth

"And Greg goes wide, taking a pass at number 19, Sexism, and under-throwing, as he stumbles downfield."

George, where does the 30% condone number come from, and what do you suppose the number is in the USA alone?

In case you missed it: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/05/us-usa-wisconsin-shooting-idUSBRE8740FP20120805 I'm sure Sikhs everywhere, including those in Marysville, Yuba City, and Pinole, are thrilled with your rhetoric.

George Rebane

TomK 224pm - In the US Reuters reported that already six years ago 25% of young American Muslims and about 20% of all American Muslims supported suicide bombings in some manner. The worldwide numbers are significantly higher than that, and I'm trying to recover the recent source for the 30+% number. But I think the point of tens of millions of worldwide Muslims supporting such acts of martyrdom is made.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/22/us-usa-muslims-poll-idUSN2244293620070522

TomKenworth

Are they Muslims first or terrorists first? How were the figures derived? This would indicate 1.5 million Americams in favor of suicide bombings, but just not by them personally, as the number of bombing in the USA so far, since 9/11 is what?

TomKenworth

Would you describe our friends south of the border with an equivalent term for ragheads after they chanted "Osama?" If anyone does that again, I suggest all us patriots chant, "blub, blub, blub...blub, blub, blub!" Here's an excellent follow through story on the issues:

"http://laprensa-sandiego.org/editorial-and-commentary/commentary/usa-usa-usa/"

billy T

The term raghead should never be confused with the endearing term diaper head. Diaper heads are intelligent, peaceful , polite, good American citizens from Indian ancestry. We embrace diaper heads with open arms as their skills are highly sought after by the likes of Microsoft and Apple. A raghead is a piece of filth that kills women, children, and non believers ON purpose. A wee example would be the Taliban tally me a bananas. They said if the US does not stop the drone attacks raining down on their ragheads, they would attack the UN folks giving polio shots to a wide area of Pakistani villagers. Seems there is quite an outbreak of polio in the region and as many as 2 million children could catch polio if not given the vaccine. Hmmmm. Let the children die in the name of Allah. F@#K the fuking ragheads. They were the ones that gathered all the citizens of a village in Afghanistan to watch a soccer game. The game turned of to be a fun filled event. Civilian men had their heads chopped off before the crowd and the soldiers played "soccer" by kicking the heads across the field. F@#K the fuking ragheads.

TomKenworth

Well, I guess Reagan started it. "If you've seen one redwood, you've seen them all." Certainly seems to be source of the right wing stereotyping. "If you've seen one member of a group you wish to stereotype, then obviously, you've seen them all." And hey, if you mistake a Sikh for Al Qaeda, it's the Sikh's fault. What a wonderful world...

George Rebane

TomK 557pm - that little repartee didn't move the peanut ahead. billyT made a strong point which is the basis for the choice of 'raghead'.

TomKenworth

"Kaleka was not at the temple at the time of the shooting, but helped police interview witnesses in the aftermath. He said members described the attacker as a bald, white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with a 9/11 tattoo on one arm -- which "implies to me that there's some level of hate crime there."

A law enforcement official briefed on the investigation confirmed the shooter was wearing a white T-shirt and did not have a bulletproof vest.

Kaleka said the gunman started shooting in the parking lot, "then entered into the temple and proceeded to open fire."

"It seems the few casualties that have been divulged to me have been the equivalent of priests, the holy leaders of our people," he said. "My uncle is one of the administrators of the temple. It's mainly those individuals who have been targeted or shot. Maybe it's because the ladies were fortunate enough to dodge it out, but so far most of the people I've heard have been shot and killed were all turbaned males.""

OR in the minds of illiterate and uninformed racists, with the exceptions of Rebane and BillyT, "ragheads."

George Rebane

TomK 711pm - the rationality distribution of 310 million people does have populated tails that reach into the extremes. Trying to guarantee that nothing tragic comes out of there is extremely expensive to our QoL. Sadly, the killer was also an extremely ignorant individual. Education is the only acceptable solution.

I wonder how many high schools today teach that turbans are worn by many cultures which don't practice Islam, and that Muslim terrorists seldom wear turbans. Given the Muslim slaughter going on in the world, might that instruction not be a more important subject in school than some of the other PC topics forced down our kids' gullets. This tragic event should serve as a national teaching moment.

Ben Emery

No Mickey, that would be a law I would protest against and advocate civil disobedience to reverse. Laws do not equal correct or moral. I would have been an abolitionist, would have been a suffragist, fought for the right to organize and strike, and would have marched with Martin Luther King Jr.

Here is question for you;

Would you support the rounding up of Christians and putting Christians in jail without any due process, if say someone who considered themselves Christian bombed a government building killing and injuring hundreds of people? Most Christians would say he is not a Christian just as most Muslims would say that the Taliban, al qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah don't represent Islam but rather distort it to make the religion fit their mission.

Ben Emery

Billy T and George,
Please tell me how you explain the difference between your definition of "raghead" vs "diaperhead" to a 5-15 year old who hears you using such language? Language that would be very offensive to people who wear turbans. Do you think the 5-15 year old would grasp and comprehend the nuance between the two and could identify it if they saw a turban wearing man walking down the street?

In my opinion you're perpetuating hatred and division along with creating a self fulfilling prophecy with that kind of garbage.

Ben Emery

Before you start telling me how the Quran is violent listen to Phillip Jenkins interview. Does the term herem ring a bell on RR?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

TomKenworth

Given that a Fatwa was issued on the life of a cartoonist in Denmark, based on his bomb in a turban cartoon, and there are tens of thousands of images associating turbans and Islam:

https://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+turban+images&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=PBG&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NEgfUPvOFueUiQKHvoHoBg&ved=0CFwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=728

530,000 or so to be more precise, I rather doubt that teachers would be even themselves be able to recognize the difference between an Islamic turban and a Sikh turban. I know I haven't learned the differentiators myself, has George, has Todd? Too many students drop out of high school before they get to the classes in which such topics are covered.

If we blame Bush, you blame teachers 50 times more.

George Rebane

BenE 900pm - No reader, including Mikey, is going to scroll through all Mikey's comments, and then read them all until finding the topic area to which you are referring. With such ambiguously cited comments you are talking only to yourself, everyone else is too busy.

Moving on. Your question about the hypothesized Christian bomber is inane, and shows that this discussion is nowhere near coming together. To find an equivalence, you would have to ask whether Christians should be interred in a country where they are a minority and they perpetrate the overwhelming fraction of a high number of terrorist acts.

Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments.

In the realworld, we observe that Muslim governments of Muslim nations do not round up all Muslims when terror acts are committed by Muslims against Muslims. Such acts are harbingers of an incipient civil war. In the same vein, no Christian nation would round up all Christians when people identified as Christians commit terror against other Christians. Capice?

Ben, I'm afraid that some very important factors are not coming together in your head, and I will have to excuse myself from this thread until you demonstrate the return of reason.

billy T

Quite easy to tell the difference between our valuable Diaper head citizens and the foreign puke bucket ragheads. Easy as pie. The diaper heads walk gracefully down the road with their clean flowing robes. They exude class and gentleness and nobility from a 100 meters. Now, if I drew a picture of Buddha, no one would die. The bird lands on the branch, flies off, leaving no trail. But, if I drew a picture and posted it on the web depicting the Prophet cheating on his wife or raping one of his slaves, then about a half a dozen ragheads would get killed in a riot, usually more. Oh, the ragheads would start beating themselves with chains and start firing in the air and before you know it they have killed about dozen of themselves every time. Easy as pie to rid the world of a dozen ragheads. Just spread a rumor that we use the Koran as Charmin, and then a couple hundred of them will go on to met 72 male techie geeks in heaven. Don't think diaper heads cut the lips of women for wearing lipstick. I like that dot on the pretty diaper women. Easy to tell. Just they way they handle themselves says it all. Diaper heads did not assassinate Gandhi. It was the f@#king ragheads.

Ben Emery

Billy T,
You didn't describe how a 5-15 year old would be able to tell what you consider a "raghead". You described what you believe is their actions but not what they look like so a 5-15 could see the difference. Your description is only an example post immoral and violent acts not how to tell the difference.

I wonder do you or did you support our cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia, United Emirates, (Saddam) Iraq, (Pahlavi) Iran, and (Mubarak) Egypt? How about supporting top five human right violator China through trade and US business?

Ben Emery

George,
I addressed my comment to Mickey not you. He should know what I am talking about. But here is Mickey's comment anyway

"Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, etc) obese people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?

Possible basis: obese people add to medicare expense, use more resources, etc.
You wrote"


Ben Emery

George,

You said at 05 August 2012 at 10:27 PM

"Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments."

Would you support them being rounded up?
I think it is you that is missing a major piece of this puzzle.

TomKenworth

As usual, when you can't argue against what I've presented, you just ignore it. Here's a better way to spend the evening.

img_4715_std

THEMIKEYMCD

"Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, imprisoning, etc) _______ people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?

Ben, so the only class of people not considered worthy of human rights in your mind are 'the rich'? Interesting. That was one of the 'transgressions' Hitler cited against the Jewish population.

I focus on individual rights, in my ideal world no central government body would have the right to round up ANY class of people.

TomKenworth

Most of the folks in jail are there because they broke laws voted for by the people, or voted for by their representatives, on a regular basis. This is perfectly normal in a democracy. Try smoking in a restaurant in California, and you will be punished.

TomKenworth

This blog's right wing regulars go strangely silent when it is revealed the company they keep:

"Authorities said they were treating the attack as an act of domestic terrorism. American Sikhs said they have often been singled out for harassment, and occasionally violent attack, since the September 11, 2001, attacks because of their colorful turbans and beards.

U.S. military sources said Page had been discharged from the Army in 1998 for "patterns of misconduct" and had been cited for being drunk on duty.

Page had served in the military for six years but was never posted overseas. He was a psychological operations specialist and missile repairman who was last stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the sources said.

In June 1998 he was disciplined for being drunk on duty and had his rank reduced to specialist from sergeant. He was not eligible to re-enlist.

Page had been a member of the racist skinhead band End Apathy, based in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 2010, said Heidi Beirich, director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Alabama.

Page also tried to buy goods from the National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group, in 2000, she said. The SPLC describes the National Alliance on its website as "perhaps the most dangerous and best organized neo-Nazi formation in America."

In a 2010 online interview with End Apathy's record label Label56, Page said he had founded the band in 2005 because "I realized ... that if we could figure out how to end people's apathetic ways it would be the start towards moving forward.""

George Rebane

TomK 853am - that's an empty and specious charge. On what do the "right wing regulars go strangely silent"? And what company do these people keep?

Gregory

"Greg, Your link with the bunny ears served what point?" Ben,04 August 2012 at 10:42 AM

An age old point... people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. And "turnabout is fair play".

The fellow with the blue velvet bunny ears and, um caped Playboy crusader outfit was, if anyone missed it, "Mantersonation", aka Mike Anderson, from a twitter account Mike set up and apparently forgot about. Taken down in the last day or so but not forgotten or erased.


Ben Emery

Greg,
Reading through the thread I missed where Michael A threw any stones in your vicinity outside making a comment about a foul being committed. Was that the stone? If yes, the posting of the link seemed very hurtful than playful because it sounds like you know it is a touchy topic with Michael.

Ben Emery

Mickey,
We agree that no centralized government should have the legal authority to round up people, especially without charge and due process.

Please show me what human rights are being violated of the wealthy? Please show me where I advocate stripping the wealthy of human rights? Being taxed isn't a violation of a human right.

Gregory

"TomK 853am - that's an empty and specious charge." George 9:00

George, did you really expect anything different?

TomKenworth

I would not be at all surprised to learn that the shooter has used the term, the same term you all are so fond of, "Raghead" in conversation, songs, and writings. You have failed to explain why using the term raghead is a good thing.

I wonder how hard it would be to get a shot of L.W. Nuggett in public and place him in a tv set?

THEMIKEYMCD

Ben, can you not see the bigotry/hatred/discrimination you openly promote against the rich via accepting the progressive tax structure (US and abroad)? Does this not equate to the rich having less human rights?

Thou Shalt Not Steal- [Posted by: Ben Emery | 05 August 2012 at 09:00 PM] you said "Laws do not equal correct or moral." It is stealing/immoral for a mob (democracy) to target a class of society via laws (i.e. progressive tax system upon the rich). No different than targeting obese people, one religious denomination, people of color, etc.

Progressives talk of the rich like plantation owners must have talked about their slaves or Hitler's nazi's spoke of the Jews. The Rich are humans.

Ben Emery

Greg,
Addressing your 05 August 2012 at 01:23 PM comment.

I understand about minority rights but also respect majority rule. Any law you don't like doesn't necessarily mean they are a violation of your rights. Get out into the streets and change the minds of the majority of the people and reverse the law. Despite disagreeing with the solutions of the Tea Party I like the fact they organized around the health care law to try and get it reversed.

TomKenworth

The rich are not a particular class of humans, like Jews, Sikh's, or involuntary African immigrants. You've said yourself many times, "anybody can be rich."

Ben Emery

Mickey,
You are so far base I cannot even respond.

Please name human rights of the wealthy that are being violated.

George Rebane

TomK 944am - You did not answer my 900am, and your accusation of my having "failed to explain why using the term raghead is a good thing" is mind-boggling since I have referenced my introductory essay on raghead countless times when I have used the term.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/02/of-ragheads-and-racism.html

You are now relapsing into attacks on RR readers instead of addressing the issues on which I post. As you are well aware and practiced in, that is the type of commenting better done and condoned on FUE's blog.

There is no relation between the expressed ideology of any RR commenter and that of Wade Page, the shooter killed by police in the Sikh temple. Continuing to accuse this blog's conservative readers as "keeping company" with that half-wit idiot killer in Wisconsin is unacceptable to me, and I will pull your hall pass if you keep that crap up.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444246904577572853363465564.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

TomKenworth

Or better yet, photoshop H.U.W. in a turban, emailed to every neonazi group out there.

Gregory

While I expect the shooter knew the difference between Islamic fascist and Sikh, as do you, expect the Keachies of the world to ignore that. George, you know I have counseled you here to drop "raghead" in the past as doing nothing to further your views because you don't get to have your own definition of a well known derogatory word; expect Keachie to milk this for all its worth. Let no tragedy go unexploited.

TomK probably also knows I've never used it except to ask you not to, but Doug Keachie (the fellow fisting the TomK sockpuppet) has never let truth get in the way of a happyfun slander.

The first Sikh I'd ever known was a software engineer who was originally a nice Jewish kid from NYC.

Ben Emery

George,
I posed a question to Mickey that you chimed in on. Here is the question

Q- Would you support the rounding up of Christians and putting Christians in jail without any due process, if say someone who considered themselves Christian bombed a government building killing and injuring hundreds of people?

You said at 05 August 2012 at 10:27 PM

"Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments."

So George- Would you support them being rounded up?

I don't know if Mickey is in favor of rounding up Muslims without due process but he has said that no centralized government should round up people in his ideal world. Wavering a bit with the ideal world caveat.

Gregory

Ben, 10:02

I'm afraid you still are confused... in the USA, we don't have "majority rule". We have a complex, ponderous process which is in place in order to stymie majority rule.

TomKenworth

Glad to see my neighbor 2 minutes east has some shreds of common sense left. Don't read Rebane often enough to have caught Greg Goodknight's disclaimers for "Raghead."

Ben Emery

George,
A pretty consistent tool in your quiver is making grand associations with being in the realm of collectivism ideology. Why doesn't the same rule apply to you with your opinions regarding the very easily confused "raghead" remarks. When hate speech is laced with violence as a solution we get mentally unstable people taking an active approach to solve the perceived problems presented by those who are in public view or sound. You being on RR, KVMR, and The Union make you a person who has a responsibility to your ideas and commentary that you put out for public consumption.

Ben Emery

Greg,

Here we go again you trying to show intellectual superiority, do you even realize you are doing it?

Here is a link on how laws are made and how bills are passed or not passed. To clarify it takes a simple majority for bills to pass and become law.
http://www.coons.senate.gov/learn/bills/

George Rebane

Gregory 1036am et al - Gentlemen, your persistent and reasoned counsel on the utility of my using 'raghead' (even though meticulously apologized) is beginning to make inroads since my credo is not canon but subject to continuous review.

I have Sikh friends and colleagues whom I would not want to hurt, no matter how unintentionally. So I ask for your help in adopting a new label that fulfills the requirements for a pejorative and unambiguously recognizable label as explained in my raghead essay. While appreciating the suggestion of "I-borg", I rejected that for the reasons given.

TomKenworth

For the sheer heck of it I just did a search here for "Gregory" and "raghead," and other than his claim just now, and one other person's post, it does not seem like he ever did what he claims he did, admonish George here publicly about using the term "raghead." Maybe the fisty fist monger has striped a couple of gears, neuron-wise? Or just thought nobody would bother to check? Maybe the search engine doesn't go back very far? Mr. Goodknight, just when did you ever make anything resembling such a statement to Dr. Rebane, publicly, on this blog? You know, the stuff you claimed I've forgotten, etc.?

Paul Emery

It's kinda odd that George goes in that direction. He's perfectly capable of describing whatever he needs without resorting to playground trash talk. I doubt if Bill Buckley would have resorted to such language.

Ben Emery

George,
I appreciate your concern for your friends feelings but this is the point we are are trying to get across to you. Your speech has consequences intended and unintended. Maybe you should do your next KVMR commentary apologizing for using such a loaded phrase loosely? Just a suggestion.

TomKenworth

L.W.H.U.W. GoodNuggett, please show in the writings, songs etc. of the shooter than he did know the difference, and that he had good reasons to go after Sikhs, instead of Muslims, at least in his mind. And, BTW, if you only wrote George in private, where is your courage to take a stand in public for something you believe in? You are sure some Johnny-come-lately, jumping on the train, after the engineer and train crew have already got her rolling. We don't need your "fist full of _____." You can keep it to yourself, at the old SF Zoo. And again, if you don't like being flung at, then stop your flinging. We'll run out of ammo shortly thereafter.

TomKenworth

"George, you know I have counseled you here to drop "raghead" in the past"

Yeah? Like when?

George Rebane

BenE 1109am - I thought it was obvious that Greg's 1043am refered to the popular majorities of a democracy, and not majority votes in legislative and regulatory bodies by members vetted by the public and/or elected officials.

re your 1039am - It's still not clear that you understood my 1027pm. An historical, fundamental, and broadly accepted 'right' of a sovereign nation-state has been to provide for its own survival. To my knowledge the US is the only such state which has the rules for its own orderly dissolution codified in its constitution.

But that dissolution was contemplated on the basis of deep ideological differences that might arise among the several states. Our Constitution treats all other threats to its existence as treason and sedition, and makes provision for dealing with those acts.

But accusing and punishing US citizens for such acts requires due process which has regularly been suspended by our government during times of emergency. I have already stated that US citizens should have their (Bastiat Triangle) rights abridged only through due process, which process has not been codified for entire groups of citizens sharing some common attribute.

If the government thinks that it needs to act first, then Congress (and SCOTUS?) needs to immediately conduct a thorough review of the action, and countermand the executive if that is their subsequent finding.

George Rebane

re TomK's 1131am - OK guys, I've asked for your considered alternatives to 'raghead'; the piling on right now is not helping the objective. For the record, GregG has long counseled me privately via emails to not use 'raghead'.

THEMIKEYMCD

The basis for the progressive tax system is the same bigoted foundation that pitted Germans against Jewish Germans in the 1930's. A mob using government force to treat a minority aggressively different.

It should be abundantly clear that 'the rich' feel targeted/hated/victimized/subhuman.

'The rich' are footing the bill (by gunpoint and against their will) for programs (wars, redundant agencies, unneeded agencies, etc) they don't desire, want or need; thanks to mob rule powered by hate.

We are all humans. I choose love.

TomKenworth

"TomK probably also knows I've never used it except to ask you not to," Until you start cc'ing me copies of your emails, how would I know?

TomKenworth

Nice try at co-opting, McMikeyIndeedy, but you are not the needy.

Gregory

George, Islamofascist might be as good as it gets.

Ben, you're once again a moving target. You talk about getting a majority of the people, then when backed into a corner, talk about a majority in Congress, but you're still off the mark. Even in the Congress, the minority views have a great deal of power, including the mysterious "hold" in the Senate, where a member can secretly threaten a filibuster, the ultimate tool for a few to stymie the many. Great stuff.

The OWS mentality begs for mob rule.

Ben Emery

Greg,
Who votes for our representatives in congress and government? We do. Get a simple majority of the votes you become the representative no matter if you have one candidate or five. Once congress or state legislature simple majorities are needed to pass general bills that will eventually become law. All along the way simple majorities decide our representatives and general laws.

Ben Emery

Mickey,
Your argument is ridiculous.

Ben Emery

George,
I guess I have to answer the question for you.

You wouldn't support the rounding up of Christians but you do support the rounding up of Muslims.


TomKenworth

Too bad you can't even get just slightly more precise, and try WahabiFasicst. Oh, I guess that wouldn't carry your message to the uneducated masses that you can reach with raghead. They have no clue as to the different factions within Islam or their individual identities, just as they have know clue as to what a Sikh believes. Or is it that you'd rather not insult the dominant religious and power wielding group inside Saudi Arabia, whose oil tits you'd rather have us sucking than working on solar?

"Cable me down Scotty!"

I'll be Greg and George would have put the probability of cheap solar as higher than that hairbrained Mars landing scheme working, eight years ago. Nope, going for solar would be too big of shift of power to the unwashed masses, now wouldn't it? Must maintain the control for those at the top, or God knows what will happen to your triangles...first grade might steal them.

TomKenworth

By the way, considering how much damage can be done by bankers aiding terrorists, how come we don't see the term, "BankoFascists," gracing these pages?

"(Reuters) - A rogue Standard Chartered Plc banking unit violated U.S. anti-money laundering laws by scheming with Iran to hide more than $250 billion of transactions, and may lose its license to operate in New York State, a state banking regulator said on Monday.

Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the state's department of financial services, said Standard Chartered Bank reaped hundreds of millions of dollars of fees by scheming with Iran's government despite U.S. economic sanctions to hide roughly 60,000 transactions from 2001 to 2010.

Lawsky's order quotes a senior Standard Chartered official in London who, upon being advised by a North American colleague that its Iran dealings could cause "catastrophic reputational damage," reportedly replied:

"You f---ing Americans. Who are you to tell us, the rest of the world, that we're not going to deal with Iranians."

Lawsky said the unit of the London-based bank was "apparently aided" by its consultant Deloitte & Touche LLP, which hid details from regulators, and despite being under supervision by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and other regulators for other compliance failures.

The bank's actions "left the U.S. financial system vulnerable to terrorists, weapons dealers, drug kingpins and corrupt regimes, and deprived law enforcement investigators of crucial information used to track all manner of criminal activity," Lawsky said in an order made public on Monday"

George Rebane

BenE 105pm - If that's what you deduce from my 1027pm, then my point there has been made twice over.

Ben Emery

George,
What I induce from your multiple comments is you will not answer the question from my very real scenario. How you changed the scenario was inserting that the Christian would be in the minority of the nation. The scenario I outlined happened in Oklahoma City as I am sure knew. What would have you done if Clinton would have started rounding up Christian militia groups? Man that story sounds like Turner Diaries doesn't it?

In any nation under any from of government would you support the rounding up of Christians without charge, due process, and were tortured?

Just answer the question.

Ben Emery

George,
After thinking about it while I work in the orchard and cannot give you a pass on the "raghead" remarks that you have defended as late as this thread. I appreciate your concern for your friendship or business relations but you've made a stand in the past on this issue and now want us to just drop it because it might affect you personal life now.

No, you need to own up to the inflammatory rhetoric that promotes hatred. Imagine if your Sikh friend was a victim to this latest semiautomatic gun crime. In this thread alone


- you have defended your using of the term "raghead and agreed with Billy T disgusting rant
- you have promoted the idea of a religious war against Islam
- you have defended torture
- you have defended rounding Muslims with charge or due process

How can you reconcile with your opinions and your request for the issue to be ignored and dropped?

George Rebane

BenE 238pm - I seek no "pass" from you or yours. If you cannot proceed on the basis I've outlined, then we'll call an end to it. My record stands as published and from which you may draw any conclusions you please, the expression of your rants and belief system notwithstanding. Please remember that you comment here at my pleasure, and so long as you see benefit. It takes two of us to tango, and I am tired of this dance.

TomKenworth

"Only time will tell, just who has fell, and who's been left behind, as you go your way and I go mine..."

~Bob Dylan~

Todd Juvinall

I resist using any term the liberal cry babies can use to say "I told you so, they are "fill in the blank". I have used Islam o-Fascist as my preferred trm for the Arab killers/terrorists. Since the liberal is PC even with the fellows who kill their wives and kids, it is obvious they are mentally challenged in the real worls. Amazing!

TomKenworth

Since the Todd is so confused that he can't figure out how folks who kill their wives and kids can have an expanding population, I think we need to turn him in, to The Real Worls Happy Farm.

Todd Juvinall

George, yo can see why I do not engage the Keachie.

THEMIKEYMCD

Ben, I made an assumption that you believed in private property ("life, liberty, pursuit of happiness"), my apologies. I do thank you for proving each of the 6 bullet points in my post.

billy T

Ben Emery, my disgusting rants are accurate, IMHO. "You people" are so PC conscious that you cannot see the forest from the trees. You throw everything out and become enraged over the term f@#king raghead and neatly avoid the substance of my examples. I got Dr. Rebane's first every post describing the narrow definition of "raghead". Yet try as he may, "you people" are stuck on stupid. I ain't saying you are a 9/11 denier or terrorist lover or America hater. No, I don't believe that for a second. If I used the term Islamic terrorist then would you be satisfied? I doubt it cause the Obama Administration has barred that term. I suppose mass murderers would be ok, but not specific enough. Reminds me of the professor who got fired your using the term "niggardly" in true context and meaning and definition. Yep, that professor did a Bozo No-No and he was gone in sixty seconds. I do not use Camel Jockeys cause that is too vague. Are you man enough to push my Bozo No-No aside and consider this: There are no homosexuals in Iran according to the sawed off President of Iran. Remember the ado when they wanted to build a mosque close to Ground Zero. No one said they did not have a right to build their community center. No one. My side said it was insensitive to the surviving families and the memory of the fallen. A lot of NYC public service union members and evil bankers alike lost their lives that day. The builder of the mosque has declared bankruptcy, even after applying for reconstruction grants from our generous open minded Federal Government. The catch is the the Imam or preacher or whatever you call the minister of the mosque announced recently that if the center was built he would throw homosexuals off the 8th story ledge. Excuse me for not wishing those who trample on all human rights (especially womens rights) a nice day. We all know what a f#$king raghead is. It is not the majority of any country or religion or people, thank goodness!! No,the raghead a tiny minority I call Islamic terrorists, no matter what PC label Homeland Security uses. Towel head is too general.

TomKenworth

Timothy McVeigh wore jockey shorts. Todd, Greg, Machen, and George all wear jockey shorts too. Therefore the latter are all terrorists. Simple logic for simple....

TomKenworth

Some Christians believe that if your faith is strong, you can handle poisonous snakes. Fortunately most do not. Do we call all Christians, "fang mongers?"

billy T

Tommie, ever hear of The Shakers? The Shakers were a sect or cult or a group of Christians, if you prefer, that believed in practicing abstinence to keep themselves pure for God in the mid 1800's I believe. They extended the practice of abstinence to all married couples. Most people never heard of them cause they practiced what they preached, lol

billy T

Thought that guy that put the bullet in the Arizona Congresswoman's melon wore boxer shorts. MccVeigh wore a jock strap and that recent shooter in Colorado wore a rather heavy duty athletic protector, aka, The Cup. However, all the above mentioned were white dudes. A lot of my high school teachers were white dudes. Therefore, all white dudes are......

Todd Juvinall

I read BenE's rant and I guess he is no Christian based on his hate for everyone except apparently, himself! Christians are taught to love BenE, so I forgive you.

George Rebane

re ToddJ 1237pm - I pulled the referenced "BenE's rant". Ben Emery is clearly suffering during his visits to RR wherein he finds my opinions "immoral and disgusting" in addition to promoting "hatred". He also holds me "indirectly responsible" for the Wisconsin shootings. He may return when his visits no longer cause such pain, and then again, he may not.

Ben Emery

George,
Censorship of those who dissent, fits right into your ideology and support for nations such as Saudi Arabia and China. Funny you will let Billy T rant about "diaper heads" an "ragheads" but mine is the comment that gets removed. So you're saying the shooter didn't share your belief that we are in a holy (religious) war? The shooter must not have read your very narrow definition of the term "raghead" and mistakenly assumed a whole building full of men with Turbans fit the description of "raghead". Interesting a man from Arkansas thought the idea of a "holy war" was an extremist view but at RR it is par for the course.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sikh-temple-shooting-page-army-holy-war-152422915.html?_esi=1

Sikh temple shooting: Gunman was on feds’ radar, told Army friend ‘racial holy war was coming’
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo! News

"Christopher Robillard, who served with Page for three years in the U.S. Army, said he thought it was just talk when Page expressed his extremist views.

"He would often mention the racial holy war that was coming," Robillard told CNN's Piers Morgan on Monday. "

Todd,
Thanks for your forgiveness on wanting justice and equality among all people not just those who I agree with or share the same faith."

Ben Emery

By the way, this comment will be posted to my facebook page. I will try and receive my censored comment and post that as well. I have around a 1,000 FB friends.

Later

Ben Emery

George Rebane

BenE 117pm - As you have demonstrated again, you don't have a clue as to what the debates on RR are about - they don't fit into your black and white worldview. Most certainly you don't know anything about my ideology. When you come on RR and are unable to discuss ideas without ad hominem attacks and characterizations, it is a sign of another bankrupt intellect.

You would do much better to be among your "1,000 FB friends."

Todd Juvinall

George, one thing about a liberal, they never apologize and then they double down on the attacks. BenE attacks you personally regarding the Wisconsin killer and I bet if BenE was compared to the killer Pol Pot or Jeferry Dahmer he might get upset? Well maybe not.

This blog is the least discriminatory regarding ideology and BenE's rants prove it. I am amazed he has lasted this long. But in the scheme of things, he is irrelevant.

THEMIKEYMCD

Note: Please add the following to Ben Empty's profile page under "ivory tower":

****Has 1000 Facebook friends (Posted| 07 August 2012 at 01:20 PM)

****Feels intellectually inferior on Rebane Ruminations (Posted 06 August 2012 at 11:09 AM)

****hates employers, 'the rich' and the successful

Ben Emery

George,
As you know I argued in your favor at Jeff Pelline Sierra Foothills Report of having a 3 minute slot on KVMR and a weekly commentary in The Union newspaper. As long as you owned your opinions and comments I would disagree but respected your right to your opinion. Once you asked for us to stop talking about your opinion because you were worried about a Sikh friend (my guess business friend) not liking the discussion. That is when my respect for you diminished. Instead of walking back from the term "raghead" you asked us to just ignore it. Has you're Sikh friend heard your definition of "raghead" and would they condone its usage in a public commentary?

George Rebane

ToddJ 140pm - I wish I felt as confident that the Ben Emerys are irrelevant. I believe his brand of progressivism borders on the tyrannical. He is among those who know how society should be fashioned by proper governance. I am among those who don't know the desired form of society other than it should be such that it comes about from a free people, who after having constituted it, remain free. To the extent that the BenEs are successful in attacking freedom, they are very relevant in our national dialogue.

George Rebane

BenE 207pm - You're back, and here we thought that by now you'd be comfortably ensconced among the 1,000.

For the record, nowhere have I "walked back" on raghead nor asked you to ignore it. I did ask input for a substitute label for all the reasons outlined above, a dialogue that you are apparently not able to grasp nor follow. Your ragging me on my considered use of that pejorative label, that is out of context of this blog's posts, as a means of personal attack is unacceptable to me.

billy T

Well, I am glad we can agree that stick and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4lJ9vsZjMU&feature=related

Steven Frisch

How did I miss this? George suddenly grows a conscience after he discovers his pejoratives may have an effect on his Sikh friends. This was the reason I objected to George having a time slot on KVMR to begin with (that and the point that he agreed to rules of engagement for our joint appearance then broke them in his opening statements). I can handle an opposing point of view, in fact relish it,; but using KVMR to drive listeners here, where bigoted statements are defended, is unconscionable.

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