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19 September 2012

Comments

Todd Juvinall

I did a post too because the fellow just can't move on from his arse being out of the real newsroom at the Union. But in him we see even down to the local newspaper the type of person delivering the "news". He is a good example of someone abusing terribly his First Amendment protections and has convinced more readers why "journalists" like him cannot be trusted. We bloggers are mostly just regular people without training. Just read mine to see that is true. But when someone who claims to be a protector and practitioner of free press and free speech actually campaigns to shut it down then there has to be deeper issues unknown to me.

We on the right want more speech not less. If people like Pelline somehow win, America will no longer be a free country.

As an aside, his picture reminds me of the fellow Arnie met in the cave in Total Recall. He has a growth protruding from his body under a shirt. There, humor.

Earl Crabb

As most readers of RR know, Jeff (my former editor) and I have had numerous disagreements, mostly stemming from his attempts to paint me as a racist right-winger. Anyone who reads my chicken-scratchings knows full well that I would hardly fit that description. After months of daily beatings at the nimble typing fingers of JP and his progressive gang, I did a cartoon lampooning him that was published in the newspaper. He got so peeved that he threatened me before taking a week off to cool down. Since I got my own blog, he chooses to ignore me. Gee, I wonder why?

The main thing that irks me is his refusal to accept the progressive label. He never criticizes Democrats, not ever. He and his readers dump on anyone who offers a conflicting view. If that's the middle, maybe I am a right-winger, NOT!

Barry Pruett

I too have vented in a way that "betrays my human frailties." Serenity prayer, my man.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference."

As much as we may try, we cannot change others. Sometimes people need to do some personal reflection and change themselves.

Michael Anderson

Barry, is that a Cubs uniform you're wearing? I am so very very sorry, my friend. At least you have Houston to keep you from utter dispair.

One of the things I have learned over the years is "change in self = change in others." This reflects somewhat Barry's sentiment.

Todd, OTOH, continues to portray a cartoon character. I don't want Todd to change. Ever. He is a museum piece, and an important icon in Nevada County history. Perhaps we can get him installed standing smugly next to the steam car at the Nevada County Railroad Museum.

TomKenworth

He has his blog, you have your blog, what's the problem? His being redundant did not refer to the character of his writing, it referred to The Union going broke and cost cutting, he was not replaced, and instead Ackerman, the FUP, took over his role or did I misunderstand what happened?

Paul Emery

Yes Michael, and we can have reenactments of the BOS battles of the early 90's with Remember Glenbrook memorial songs and posters, much like the Civil War events in the park. Great fun. Bring your family and relive the birth of the RQC.

Paul Emery

Does anyone other than Todd know what I'm talking about?

Russ Steele

Paul@10:26

I have a rather large RQC file along with some 90s battle scars. Let me know if you would like to compare notes.

Steven Frisch

I remember Paul...

Russ Steele

The FUE's attacks often come when his readership numbers are in the tank and he is looking for a boost. Here are the monthly estimates of unique visitors that read his blog. Year to date his annual numbers are down 58.34% from a very small sample size.

Barry Pruett

Michael: It is the Bears. Usually football season in our house starts when the Cubs are mathematically eliminated. I think that was in May this year! Steve Frisch can likely relate. You are also correct about "change in self = change in others." Much similar to be the change you want to see. For my part, I have a sharp tongue and am very blunt...and therefore sharp fingers when I type. My wife calls it brutal honesty (sometimes with emphasis on the brutal). It is difficult to not respond in-kind for outrageous statements which are made about yourself - enter the human frailty and the "wisdom." It helps to sit down and have a cup of Joe with the commenters. getting to know eachother helps take off the edge.

Todd Juvinall

I think MichaelA is off his meds again. PaulE is like an old wife who when confronted with a disagreement with her spouse is reliably resurrecting past issues. SteveF was not even around yet by being the self proclaimed smartest person on the blogs, knows everything. I call these people the "usual suspcts>

What their comments here have anything to do with George;s post I am unsure about. Rather than discussing the crap their pal dishes out about George, they attack and smugly exhibit their sarcasdtic personailties in defense of the "big boy".

How the RQC got into this discussion is beyond me. Hell, Brian Bsnett had his picture in the paper today and he was a RQC leader. He was anti everybody else doing any development in the 90's, except himself of course. So if one wants to discuss the RQC all one has to do is read what they said then and what they individually did. Hypocrites galore. What a hoot!

Russ knows.

Steven Frisch

WTF do you know Todd? I moved here in 1987 and immediately got involved in local issues. You may not have seen me because you were too busy trying to become dogcatcher. Smartest thing we ever did up here was split our asses off from the rest of the county so we could control out own planning and local government decisions. That was largely because people like you were so out of step with the 20th century. I'm pretty proud of that.

Oh and a word of advice...when you are dumb as a rock every squirrel looks like a genius.

Michael Anderson

Since Todd asked: for the record, and I've written this before, I think it's great that George has a regular column in The Union and a regular radio commentary on KVMR. And as Steve F. mentioned, I could care less if his last "Obamunism" column was under the masthead. Todd and Barry have it right: more speech, not less.

Without George's column, I would never have heard of "Obamunism." Which, BTW, I still think is a ridiculous idea.

Michael R. Kesti

I remember one occasion of Jeff Pelline criticizing a Democrat. I don't recall the particulars but do recall that it was the lightest possible criticism one might imagine and that it occurred not long after somebody pointed out that Democrats are never the topic of his scorn.

Steven Frisch

MA the problem is not the content of George's column, although the entire premise of 'Obomunism" is based on a falsehood, and is so poorly sourced that it is really just a rant about what George FEELS......the problem is with the content of his blog, which his column and commentaries drive readership to....and there is no problem with media having the right to publish or broadcast George....that is protected speech....the issue is what community standards do these media outlets want to promote? When you promote material that is just unsourced personal feelings from a curmudgeon where does it really end? Lets just have a streaming media of people telling us what they FEEL about things......how does that educate? inform? or meet the stated missions of the media outlets?

I actually agree with Todd and Barry...more speech.....but that doesn't mean its smart for KVMR and The Union to provide every blowhard a megaphone.

By the way, the very idea that Jeff saying that KVMR and The Union should not be publishing George is an attack on free speech is ludicrous....for a bunch of "constitutionalists' some people sure don't seems to ever actually read case law. The Constitution protects the media from restrictions of speech from the GOVERNMENT...not the voice of the people bitching about stuff and setting community standards.

Steven Frisch

By the way...what difference does it make if one does criticize or act counter to Democrats or Democratic party policy? I do that regularly here---and so does Ben. I support regulatory reform, I oppose the peripheral tunnels, I support budget reforms that Democrats oppose, I support pension reform that the Democrats opposed initially, I support education reforms that the teachers unions oppose, I support building and development and forest policy that environmentalists oppose, I support renewable energy siting and development that environmentalists oppose. Yet every time George talks about "liberals" and 'collectivists' he puts all people who do not agree with his positions almost 100% in the same basket. You are either with him or against him. There is no middle ground, no nuance, no center ground to discuss solutions.

The real world is a bit more complicated.

Earl Crabb

Your objections to certain Dem policies are well documented, Steve, but we're not talking about you. If you're going to provide a forum that claims to be in the middle, then you might want to include some of the excesses of the liberal end of the spectrum,of which there are many. JP's site is as one-sided as Rebane's, but he won't cop to it. Therein lies "the rub".

George Rebane

What I find remarkable in the frequent returns of Mr Frisch is his selfless compassion in lavishing his considerable thoughts on these pages. A man of his caliber could just as easily disdain being found on the website of a blowhard who presents his visitors with un-nuanced commentaries that frame everything in black/white motifs suitable only for the pre-enlightened reader.

Nevertheless, as the so-accused, I am grateful for every one of his civil visits, no matter how skillfully he treads those margins of civility. I sincerely hope that my other readers share in the pleasures of Mr Frisch’s company.

TomKenworth

Hey Russ, you got the number for his Sierra Food Wine and Art that The Union just tried to imitate?

http://www.sierraculture.com/foodwineart/

Seems to me the blog is a hobby site, and the real deal is distributed all up and down the Tahoe & Sierra Gold Country's Regions.

What hard cover distributions do you and the rest of RR have, other than CABPRO?

George Rebane

EarlC 842am - re the 'one-sidedness' of RR. I do want to draw the readers' attention to the countless posts in these pages wherein I rail against the Republicans. And to my knowledge, I'm the only one who has given not one, but two talks to the county's Repub Central Committee at the end of which they didn't know whether to applaud or reach for a down pillow and a bucket of tar. But that is all in the record here, and I find your calibration of symmetric one-sidedness odd, to say the least.

What I really thought that I might invite you (or anyone really) to do is to identify the tenets of my belief system that you would ascribe to the "hard right", tenets that would enable a person to then discriminate between those of the hard right, and the rest of the world's inhabitants. This invitation is now unanswered in its sixth year.

George Rebane

TomK 858am - Doug, please don't mistake my post as a claim of RR's supremacy in any domain - this is not a dick measuring exercise. As I said, I have a very small voice and am grateful for your indulging it.

Steven Frisch

Bob, you very well may be correct...you and I have discussed that before...but when I post at Jeff's and oppose Democratic party policy, no one calls me a fat assed reactionary, nor would that really be tolerated at Jeff's blog. The sole exception may be the issue of race, where I really think we do need to support some community standards, and really don't seem to be able to find common ground. I really do believe that many people who post here, including our host, are intentionally using race, ethnicity, and religious belief as a pivot point to increase unease about our President, and I feel compelled to draw the line there. That's not to say that people are not entitled to their views, it is to say that those views should not go unchallenged. When I (or MA BE or PE) post here and oppose Democratic policies it does not seem to ever lead to the simple statement, "hey perhaps there is a middle". The entire idea that the middle lacks an ideological basis is a fallacy regularly promoted here.

With that said, I do see how it would appear that there is not a dimes worth of difference between the two. And I really don't see how the perpetuation of the feud leads to a productive community dialogue. I have no doubt that if we tried we could find many areas of common agreement. For example I posted over on Pelline's my belief that George and Russ's observations about economic development were spot on. Those entreaties to common ground never seem to be acknowledged.

I really wonder about the future of blogging, and whether the anonymity and safety for extreme views created by blogging, is good for our communities. That's not an indictment of free speech; it is an observation that free speech and wise speech are really two different things.

Steven Frisch

barry, the difference between you and me is that when the Cubs are mathematically eliminated I defer to the Packers and you defer to the Bears!

Michael Anderson

Steve F. wrote: "...but that doesn't mean its smart for KVMR and The Union to provide every blowhard a megaphone."

I make it a policy not publish my opinions on people's business decisions on these blogs. If my fellow citizens want to know how I feel about those, they'll have to sit down with me and share a delicious hot or cold beverage.

I found the whole Rush Limbaugh/KNCO "debate" very distasteful. If people make unwise business decisions, eventually they find out about it via direct feedback from their customers when those customers stop showing up. Boycotts should be saved for life-and-death matters.

I was very vocal about my opinions regarding George's "Obamunism" screed. But I draw the line at telling The Union whether they should have printed it or not. The main reason? Because there is so much nonsense coming out of all media that that's all I'd be doing! Also, the non-value of screeds (from whatever direction) is self-evident; why beat a dead horse further by demanding its removal from public view?

Steven Frisch

Re: Michael Anderson | 20 September 2012 at 09:21 AM

People bitching about content is a time honored tradition in American media...it is the epitome of "direct feedback from their customers." But it is much more fun to do it over beverages!

Russ Steele

TK@08:58
Here are the numbers you requested. While the numbers are improving they still do not exceed the his "hobby" blog.

George Rebane

Good sentiments, worth developing further.

re SteveF's 910am: "The entire idea that the middle lacks an ideological basis is a fallacy regularly promoted here."

The fallacy could be proved in a moment by citing an available source for the tenets of such an ideology. The only response from the middle has been crickets. And now from the left we hear a denial of their non-existence.

But my hope springs eternal, that Steve will be able to enlighten us. For then we can have a real debate about issues, because then they can be illuminated by and evaluated with respect to how well each conforms to the belief system that purports to support such an issue.

And while Steve is on a roll, perhaps he can go on to counter Dr Beverly Gage's research and fill the ideological vacuum of America's 21st century Left.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/08/the-liberals-intellectually-baseless-ideology.html

Last but not least, I would still enjoy the Left's understanding of what ideological tenets are embraced by those whom they label as 'hard right'.

TomKenworth

Steele, not the website, the real life hold in your hands quality magazine.

Steven Frisch

Russ, I just ran the numbers for the Sierra Nevada Geotourism site through Compete and Google Analytics and noticed a major discrepancy. Compete lists it hovering at about 10,000 unique visits per month, Google lists it at 33,000 per month.

sierranevadageotourism.org

What do you think drives the discrepancy between metrics? Is it just different methodology for calculating?

TomKenworth

BTW, George, you seem fond up FUE as an abbreviation. Should The Union fall into liberal hands and they decide you are redundant, have you ever considered what your abbreviation will be?

George Rebane

TomK 1044am - I suppose I'll have to labor under the acronym that burdens other Former Union Columnists. But I'm more interested in your assessment that The Union is a conservative newspaper.

I write for The Union at their invitation and pleasure, as I do my commentaries for KVMR. At the former I am countered by numerous liberal syndicated columnists, and the latter is an avowed progressive media outlet for which I (to my knowledge) am the only conservative commentator (the money guy doesn't count because he provides educational content). The rest of their editorial day is filled with the likes of Amy Goodman who pontificate for considerable hours. My own pontifications are limited to about four minutes, and are appended with an open invitation for a counter-voice, an ignominy of which Amy and clan are spared.

Dixon Cruickshank

Doesn't look like he's missed any scooplets on restaurant openings, appears right on top of the market.

Russ Steele

Steven@10:41
There are a number of issues. One is visitors vs page views, more page views per visitor. One has to be careful what is being measured. Complete works best of measuring two sites one against the other using the same service, thus you can eliminate the measurement issues. Comparing Complete with Google Analytics it is an apples and plums measurement. Members of Google Analytics have an advantage over non-members, thus you can be comparing apples to plums. They are all estimates.

I use a third party, StatCounter, to measure my visitors, plus the embedded Wordpress stats. This gives me two sources of information for analysis, they do not always agree. My biggest surprise recently was the number of international visitors to my blogs and too the Union web pages.

Steven Frisch

Thanks Russ...and really Dixon..this is a really interesting issue to me. We showed up at 10K in Compete, 33,000 in GA and our internal counter embedded in the web site has 57,000 unique visitors a month. The good thing is that all of those are comparing unique visitors.

George Rebane

re GeorgeR 906am - I forgot to add a couple of examples to substantiate my continuing criticism of the Republicans.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/03/the-candyass-republicans.html
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/05/republicans-need-a-new-strategy.html

THEMIKEYMCD

Too bad that you had to devote time to such childish things when there are far more pressing matters....
you might as well of been partying with Jay-Z and ...

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

George Rebane

MikeyMcD 530pm - Guilty as charged, I'm sorry too. (But it did again reveal what logic the left and middle use to ascribe symmetry to RR.)

billy T

I like RR cause its the only blog that hasn't barred me for life. I mind my manners here, converse civilly, and temper my words, you bunch of puke bucket puss oozing liberal brain dead dumb shits.

Michael Anderson

I love you, Billy T.

Go Giants!

Todd Juvinall

Now that was funny BillyT!

Earl Crabb

Hey! I resemble that remark, but you left out "thick".

Dixon Cruickshank

SF @ 1:40

Well not sure whats that important Food scooplets or website stats?

Personally I could care less about your web stats, thats Russ'es arena, didn't know we were supposed to suspend commenting until he answered.

Bonnie McGuire

Can't help but chuckle at how much Jeff Pelline hates the Union newspaper. I really ruffled his feathers by saying how much generations of our family have enjoyed "the pulse" of our community...so he did a special on it and the last election to show Sue losing the election proved the Union wasn't the pulse. I know I have a strange sense of humor, but this is funny.

Steven Frisch

Dixon, I was responding to the food scooplets comment. I mean really, fat jokes? Are we really that bored?

billy T

Bonnie McGuire, you nailed it again. Nitpicking a small town paper is the definition of petty. I am just glad we have a local paper. Its not like we are talking about Newsweek....ooops, they sold for a dollar.

Nitpicking because Dr. Rebane has a couple of minutes on a community FM radio on the end of the spectrum is below silliness. I am just glad we have a local radio station that plays music between pledge drives.

I hope Dr. Rebane continues to have a few moments to share his thoughts on local media outlets. It is such fun watching Bob's Big Boy get all contorted and act so superior and have that worm squirming in his head each time Dr. Rebane is given a little print or air time.

Todd Juvinall

I don't think the big boy could fit in the booth at KVMR. Too small an area.

What I have noticed over the many years here is people like the purple fellow move here because they like the quaintness, the solitude, the "far from the madding crowd" lifestyle and after settling in, they try to change everything. I guess I just don't understand them. The big boy has been a critic of just about every aspect of what has made our little county a great place to live, grow up an raise a family. If one only read the big boys comments about the place you would think it was a hell hole and a hotbed of numbnuts running everything and populating the land. My advice is the same too all the transplants from the big city. Visit us in the winter as well as the summer because when the snow falls you may not like it. Whenever there is a large snowfall, the "for sale" signs sprout up all up and down Banner and they boogie to warmer climes. Cracks me up.

George Rebane

ToddJ 724am - Todd, you raise an extremely important point regarding the colonization and takeover of remote idyllic locales by the Left. Nevada County is not the only victim of this social(ist) plague, only the one with which we are intimately familiar on a daily basis.

Before their discovery and ready access, such remote places were homes to a special breed of independent, self-reliant, co-operative, and generous people. They took care of themselves and each other on their own volition and terms, and not on forced compliance to strictures and mandates that were imposed from afar.

Then the liberals started arriving, and like a virus, everywhere they landed they demanded to change the place into their own image of what they imagined an ideal community would look like. What really happens then is that these people go from place to place spreading the infection into communities that are too trusting and thinly populated to resist. The beachhead is even established with the help of the locals, since the first arrivals have a low impact and just want to do their own thing. And doing your own thing is, of course, an already established and cherished value in such places.

But with the arrival of more of these kind, they soon forget that they came because their ways of thinking and doing had already ruined what they left behind - that's why they came. Now in sufficient numbers they start all over again - but this time, as always, they then want to also do your own thing.

They succeed in this because the mess they left behind is now maintained by the far-reaching guns of government which they subsequently summon to whip the locals and old timers into line and more correct forms of thought and behavior. Such small town and agricultural communities don't have a chance.

And now they have an overarching organizing blueprint called Agenda21 for the makeover to create their new world.

TomKenworth

In addition to earthquakes, please keep in mind that I was looking into buying land up here in....1961. I figured out that the Chickering lands would be great, but they weren't selling. Or maybe a 1/3 acre lot in Alpine Meadows, same price, and included life time lift tickets, $1,000. Then I set my sights on 160 acres in Cold Stream Canyon, which was then selling for $25,000. By 1968 I was eyeballing the 2 acre lots that lined the lakeside at Incline Village, also at $25,000. But alack, I was lacking cash and couldn't convince elders to invest...

Moving up here was considered and well thought out 40 years before Agenda 21 saw the light of day.

TomKenworth

eliminate "same price" from sentence #3.

Steven Frisch

Correct me if I am wrong George, but didn't you arrive here in 2002 after a life of work in Southern California living off government contracts and on the government payroll?

Steven Frisch

This "anti-newcomer' thread of Todd's is just another form of hick chauvinism. We all live here because we choose too. We are all part of the same community. The world has seen populations move for time memorial. Nothing is ever going to change that. To bemoan it as a curse instead of embrace it as an opportunity is the ultimate example of our divided world views.

Russ Steele

Todd,

We are always chuckling about how quickly the For Sale signs go up on Banner after a big snow year. Not so much last year, it was an easy winter, but boy wait for two hard ones in a row and the For Sale signs sprout like spring weeds on Banner Mountain. Back to the Valley, or below the snow line the newcomers go.

George Rebane

StevenF 925am - Perhaps my 810am wasn't sufficiently clear. Yes indeed, we moved here in 2002 after a life of camping in the Sierra and getting to know its small towns on both sides of the mountains. We knew Nevada County since 1992, and somewhere in the interval decided that it would be our new home after soCal.

But the difference between people like us and those of a more progressive bent is that we didn't want to change Nevada County, we didn't want to haul the culture and values of soCal up here, and start militating that they be accepted by those whose roots go deep in these mountains. We wanted and still want to blend into the traditions and lifestyle that made these mountain communities such wonderful repositories of what has made America great.

It was the same in 1949 when we arrived on these shores. The Rebanes wanted to blend in and become Americans, instead of hauling Europe with them and joining with those like minded who wanted to change the local scene. (Today some are hell bent on taking the worst of Europe and imposing it on America.)

And re my "living off government contracts and on the government payroll". The only time I was on the government payroll was when I was on active duty in the Army. And I lived off government contracts doing the research and developing systems which the government could not accomplish internally, systems whose employment gave, and still give us the security to maintain the individual liberties that allow you to freely work for the threatened fundamental transformation of America.

Paul Emery

George

As a migrant to Nevada County in 1976 I had a pretty good seat to observe evolution of our towns. The renaissance of Western Nevada County was largely the result of the counter culture bent settling here in the early 70's that saved the Nevada Theatre, started the American Victorian Museum, made businesses out of boarded up storefronts and elevated the cultural interests that in turn made this an attractive location for bay area and beyond retirees. Historical preservation in the late 60's kept the attractive appearance up and eliminated franchise fast food restaurants in the historic district. The "culture" you were attracted to was largely a result of these efforts. I can write a book on this but I can sum it up simply by saying the Nevada County you enjoy today can largely be attributed to the Hippies and Gays who settled here in the 60's and 70's and spiritual communities such as Ananda

George Rebane

PaulE 1234pm - Paul, I neither doubt nor denigrate the contribution of the Hippies and Gays, but I do know the record of when this community started picking up in both its population and economy. And there were much larger forces at work then than the Hippies and Gays as the tens (hundreds?) of other Sierra communities can attest. Perhaps ToddJ, RussS, et al can chime in here.

Today there is no doubt in my mind that the descendants of these bohemians, and the subsequent migration of similar mental sets, make up the economic and regulatory friction that will again relegate these foothills to the destitution of the 1960s and 70s. And all that is because there is a gross ignorance in those classes of the workings of an economy, of human nature, and lack of critical thinking skills, especially if it any numeracy is required.

Paul Emery

George

It was regularity friction that allows us to enjoy the type of down towns we have today. God only knows what it would be like if it was left up to the rednecks that ran the town down in the 60's and left it as a Foohills ghost town. Much like the protection of the South Yuba River, one of our greatest assets from French led trashy hydro projects that would have put dams on what we now enjoy as a State park. No help from the neckers on that one.

Russ Steele

Paul@12:34PM and George@12:58PM


I am sorry to say but the hippies and the gays are nothing but window dressing on the robust economy that was the result of Charles Litton Sr deciding to come to Nevada County and bring the Litton Engineering Laboratory with him in 1953. That move resulted in the creation of an applied technology business cluster in the 60s and 70s that spawned multiple manufacturing business and design centers. In the late 1990, Western Nevada County had 32 design centers that were designing products used around the world.

Litton invited Dr Hare to come to Nevada County in 1959 to develop his theater sound systems, but when the theater business was over come by TV viewers staying home, Dr. Hare and his engineering team decided to create products for the TV industry, resulting the Grass Valley Switcher. An industry changing product, that eventually led to the development of a world wide recognized video engineering and product development business cluster, as engineers left GVG to start their own firms.

An advanced technology cluster that provided high paying jobs and solid manufacturing based tax revenue steam for local governments. This industry cluster attracted many highly intelligent community minded individuals to the community, who became civic board members, little league coaches, school volunteers, band members in the local bistros, and much more. Without this advanced technology economic base the hippies and gay would have be nothing but a flash in the pan. There would not have been the money in the community to buy their products and participate in their events with out the video and applied technology business cluster. The gays and hippies were Nevada County window dressing.

Todd Juvinall

Sorry PaulE, you can't make up yur own history here. I have been here since I popped into the world in 1950. Russ before that. Nevada City is what it today because of Lon Cooper, a retired cop if I recall correctly and a city councilman. He lead the changes in the rules for building and conservation in the historic district. I went through school with his son Jerry, now a lawyer.

The hippies came here in the late 60's led by a fellow who became a 15 minute famous type. He lived in a cave and had two or three babes with him. The press was gaga and a bunch of us traveled up there to see what the hubbub was all about. After the press glamorized him the hippie types flooded the ridge (ask Chris Dabis). The rest of the county (except Truckee) prospered because of REAL ESTATE. LOP, LWW and CASCADE SHPRES among the big ones. Hundreds of little ones drew thousands over time. Along with GVG and timber (until the government sgut that down for the most part), the "establishment" made the county what it is today, not the hippies or the homosexuals. I will say all have had a part but REAL ESTATE was the drivng force along with construction.

Steven Frisch

Re: one portion of George Rebane | 22 September 2012 at 10:29 AM

Are you seriously saying that because you came here with somehow pure motivations that your contribution is somehow different than other people who came here? The reality is that Americans are remarkably mobile people, and the citizenship rights that we carry with us are mobile as well as our persons. Thus the contribution of someone that comes here from Simi Valley expounding on his philosophy of Hayek and Bastiat are no different than the contribution of someone who comes here from the Haight expounding the philosophy of Keynes or Krishnamurti. Every new influence coming to a region changes it in some way, and that is as it should be.

I visited Truckee for my first time on a cross country trip in 1978. I later moved to California, with stops in the Bay area and San Diego, before I settled here, never being more than 6 months without a trip to the region.

The anti-newcomer meme is nothing but chauvinism. pure and simple. It is an attempt to discount or minimize the influence of newcomers by creating a litmus test for civic engagement. It is this attitude in part that accounts for the late adoption of change that often holds the economies and skills of rural regions behind those of more urbanized area. The ultimate in chauvinism is the assumption that ones own motives are pure while others are not. It is actually a rather elitist attitude if you really get down to it.

We are all part of a community, and my contribution is every much as important as Todd's or yours, or Paul's. To think any other way is downright backward thinking.

Re: The debate over hippies versus GVG--why is it so hard for people to understand that it took and takes both? No economy, culture or system is composed of one thing. Why do we insist on "one true answer"? This is yet another example of the magical thinking that makes our ability to rationally agree on a path forward so difficult.

Russ Steele

Steven@09:23, you wrote:

“Every new influence coming to a region changes it in some way, and that is as it should be.”

Yes, that is true. However some influences have longer term impact than others. The “spotted owl” scare by the environmentalists that kill the lumber industry is one example. The zoning that banned any “big box” stores without considering the long term consequences was another. Nevada County citizens are shopping in the “big box” stores in Roseville to get the product they want at the lowest possible price. With no local big box stores people go on line to get the best price and have it delivered right to their door. The leakage is approaching $200 million dollars, that results in lost tax revenue for local governments. Banning big box stores is having some long term consequences and more big box stores will soon be opening in Auburn, making the problem even worse. Shorter trip, less time, lower fuel costs.

I will give you an example. I needed some halogen light bulbs for a kitchen light bar. Cost locally for a pack of three was $14.98. Online at Amazon the cost for a pack of six was $14.98 with free shipping delivered the next day. A crowbar at the local hardware was $45.00. In Roseville “big box” store $27.00. That “big box” store is now in Auburn, reducing the transportation cost by 1/3.

Nevada County has missed out when the current zoning and community attitudes have prevented the development of business parks large enough for a major manufacturing firm to move here. With billions in gold under our feet community attitudes have blocked development of mines to extract that gold.

During the last great depression, it did not have much of an economic impact on Nevada County, due to the gold mines that provided jobs and tax revenues for government services. Those gold miners keep the local shops and saloons open, creating community based wealth.

Rather than consider the needs of the whole population of the community, we have tribal groups that are only interested in their vision of the future. Many, not all, of those tribal leaders refuse to come to Ruminations and debate their ideas like you do, they refuse to even address the ideas presented here. Why is that?

George Rebane

SteveF 923am - "The anti-newcomer meme is nothing but chauvinism. pure and simple. It is an attempt to discount or minimize the influence of newcomers by creating a litmus test for civic engagement."

You mistake the character of the meme in this thread. It is not of the simplistic "anti-newcomer" kind. No one here professes to be of a blanket anti-newcomer sentiment, and insisting on that stops the conversation. And no one has claimed to "minimize the influence of newcomers", in fact it is exactly the other way around - the influence in changing the character of the community by certain new-comers is acknowledged to be very significant.

Also, such statements as "No economy, culture or system is composed of one thing." are your fabrications of what no one here has maintained. Perhaps you had some other blog's arguments in mind when you wrote this, or maybe it was another instance of 'I know what you are thinking.'

The entire notion of what it takes to make a good community is worthy of its own post, and I will get to it directly. In the meantime, I will leave you with the blasphemous(?!) thought that it does NOT take all kinds of cultures and value systems coming together to make any given community most beneficial to any of its inhabitants.

Steve, I appreciate your considered remarks because they represent the dominant, widely taught, and politically correct viewpoint, especially in California. I, and perhaps one or two others, consider it to be one of the biggest social errors in the land. Airing out the particulars should be both revealing and, perhaps, productive.

Todd Juvinall

I think SteveF is jut too sensitive to be posting here. Hell, my dad and mom moved here in 1945 and were called flatlanders for years! Goldmining was going on and until 1856 was a major emploter. Russ is correct about the spotted owl crap. The econuts were victorious and we all watched as thousands of families were handed a pink slip all over Northern California. Thanks SteveF for that bud. The hippies brought nothing here. They have been and still are a bunch of moochers. They grow and manufacture illegal drugs and their kids are following in their footsteps.

I also would like to know what you have brought Nevada County and Truckee SteveF. Give us a list of your accomplishments.

THEMIKEYMCD

Paul E, hour diatribe against rednecks is in error. Do you not enjoy the wide open spaces provided by the lifestyles/livelihoods of the rednecks you love to hate?

As a redneck (who values locally grown food, water, inexpensive power) and has been on the NID waiting list for years (!) I would be in favor of more dams/reservoirs. I think more supply of h20, electricity and recreation is a blessing to a community..... AND it helps the less fortunate.

I doesn't take much time in reflection to know that today's traffic issues, lack of H20, and energy crisis are the byproducts of too much government planning.

George Rebane

Please continue the 'community thread' in the next post 'What makes a good community?' Thanks.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/09/what-makes-a-good-community.html

billy T

I will post later on "What makes a good community". Just to round out this thread of Journalists and Sleazebags and Liberals and Purple People Eaters, here is a small news blurp that hits the control freaks who love to pave the road to hell with feel good intentions: ww.jsonline.com/news/education/students-strike-against-new-federal-school-lunch-rules-t96t7sp-170124676.html

Russ Steele

billyT

Even after I fixed the missing "w" in the link, the browser could not find the referenced page. Searched the paper and came up empty.

billy T

Thanks Mr. Steele. http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/students-strike-against-new-federal-school-lunch-rules-t96t7sp-170124676.html

or this one: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/09/18/high-school-students-boycott-school-cafeteria-over-new-lunch-restrictions/

or add this one to the party:http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/21/daddy-daughter-dances-banned-what-next-no-apple-pie/

TomKenworth

Since the spammer brought it up., I assume George & Company here would have absolutely no objections to Big Box stores opening up here in town, and would call the family owned B&C and Hills Flat socialists if they tried to block them. After all, it's a dogpile world, by Libertarian and Bastiat Triangle choice. Who are you to pry into the the private contract affairs of the Walmart Family, which is currently undergoing a run-in with commie organizers? Walmart has a perfect right to recommend their employees take advantage of the state welfare programs, right?

And the following is a perfect way to run a country:

AlltheDemocrayYouCanBuy

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