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11 September 2012

Comments

TomKenworth

I might agree on a couple of million, but not hundreds of millions, and I'll bet there are a couple of million folks in the USA that would just as soon deport/excommunicate all 8 million American Muslims, just because...

TomKenworth

A few photos, more to come, of the Constitution Day Parade: http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/collections/72157631493200158/

George Rebane

TomK 511pm - Doug, I take that to be some kind of equivalency statement which I and at least half of this country would reject outright. Polls of worldwide Islam continually show that more than 1 out of 4 Muslims believe what I stated. The worldwide Islamic population is currently estimated to be between 1.7 and 2.1 billion - you do the math.

To put a bow on it, today's reports from Cairo and Benghazi underline the widespread hatred of the US, and how we solicit it by the lame responses that are correctly taken to be apologies by our local embassy and consulate for the violation of our sovereign territory. We note that the White House has been silent on the matters that occurred on our day of remembrance of Muslim terror.

I would bet the ranch that there are at least a couple of million Muslims who would jump at the chance to go to Allah if they could take a few of us down in the process.

Paul Emery

Why do you think that is George? Is there any possibility that 400 years of Europeon and American Imperialism and Colonialism on their land and to their people might at least in some way contribute to the situation you describe?

billy T

Thank you George Rebane for articulating the words I do not have. 9/11. The day nearly 3,000 people lost their lives in a horrible inferno. People from 90 different countries perished that day. Most all of them civilians.
How could this happen? Who would target civilians? Who would attack office buildings as well as a direct hit on the Pentagon. This was not to end a war. This was to start a war.

The reason this could happen is the enemy was encouraged and authorized to do so by jihad. Not to take land or assets, but to kill as many American men women and children as possible. It is the enemy's scared duty to kill us infidels Americans. The more the merrier.

9/11. The day that awoke us out of a sleepy daze. Same as Dec 7. 1941 awoke a sleeping nation on a similar beautiful morn.

9/11. The day our blessed home was attacked. The day America was attacked. The day thousands were murdered.

Many have been born since 9/11, but the jihad continues. Children may not even know the significance and some adults let it wane from their minds. Lest we forget. I will always be grateful for Canada and our NATO Allies for patrolling our skies to keep us safe from murderous attacks following 9/11.

9/11 is a day that transcends politics and one's station in life. It transcends one's background. It was the day that America was attacked and civilians were targeted.

Some strive to find some sick moral equivalence to justify their twisted thinking. Some apologize. We are all Americans. We are peanut butter and jelly, 24/7, no matter what some buffoon spouts. http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/principal-sees-racism-in-peanut-butter.html

Todd Juvinall

Paul Emery. What do you call the 600 years of Ottoman rule over the Balkans and Greece. Was that Imperialism? Colonization? Throw in Bulgaria and then south to Somalia and you have a what? An Empire? Were the Turks Ismalists? How about the Islamics that invaded India. Were they called Moguls? Were they Islamists? Just curious.

George Rebane

ToddJ 829pm - And being kind, you left out the 1,200 year invasion and rule of the Judea, Samaria, Byzantium, Syria, Persia, and the Levantine. Oh what the hell, throw in all of north Africa and Spain. The global caliphate has been a long time coming. "Accept Allah, or die!" has echoed over the earth for almost 1,500 years, and it still does.

Paul Emery

I asked about if 400 years of colonialism and imperialism IN SOME WAY contributed to the current situation. Yes or no. Pretty simple

I grant you your historical observations of the Ottoman empire. My heritage is Greek. Gee what a concept, people hacking each other up for territorial expansion and religious obsession. We can go bsck all the way to the Crusades if you like.

George Rebane

PaulE 923pm - The question is itself a "pretty simple" one - of course YES. But if you meant it in any way to contribute to 9/11's justification, or parity, or symmetry in the historical conduct of both civilizations, then your question is impertinent.

Islam, by its very founding dogma, scriptural dictates, primitive social behavior, armed conquests, and confirming declarations has shown itself to be the perennial enemy of western civilization.

billy T

Here is a commercial that ran one time only after 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eQmzw6n3k&feature=youtu.be

Ryan Mount

It's a cultural and economic war of attrition: Jihad vs. McWorld. Who do you think will win? My counter-intuitive bet is on the expanding waste lines, despite the other side's religious dedication to the dominion of the Caliphate. People eventually get tired of loudmouth demagogues, but never tried of food being handed to them at a drive thru window.

We should probably carpet-bomb them with double cheeseburgers. Undoubtedly there's bound to be more counter attacks by people who "want it there way," so we're not going to be able to please everyone.

Certainly, at this point, "leaving them alone" is not going to be enough, even if we don't lob cheeseburgers at them. Our mere presence is enough to warrant action, even if it's just a means to rally their dumb populations into that war-time feeling. It's always better [easier] to to blame someone else for your shortcomings.

Then they're gonna get all filled with the spirit of hegemony. Think of it as empire without cheeseburgers. So insofar as they have a taste for war, and not ketchup, we're gonna have to deal with them in unpleasant ways when they threaten our drive thrus.

Ryan Mount

stupid Internets. [Note the skillful way of blaming something else. It's really a product of 5:30am undercaffeination.]

"want it their* way,"

I beg your pardon. Better to ask permission, than beg forgiveness.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, thanks for the confirmation that Islam is an expansionist and empire building religion/government entity. My question was in response to your trying to claim those poor Muslims were only "paying back" we in the west for that "colonial" hegemony. Why is it you can claim some people who think Muslims and their anti west agenda are OK and the West holding them off is not? Libyan wunderkinds killed our Ambassador and others in our Embassy yesterday. Golly, maybe that is their payback for President Jefferson defeating the Barbary pirates. Your PC protection of these killers is palpable.

The "Arab Spring" is a ruse and the true intent of Muslim killers is right in front of us. They could care less about your liberals PC protection of them but they do thank you all for the help anyway.

TomKenworth

Since I am first up, let me be the first to say, "Fu*k Mohammed!"

George, them and their precious version of "God" have gone too far.

"We sacrificed dozens and hundreds during the uprising for our dignity. The Prophet's dignity is more important to us and we are ready to sacrifice millions," said mosque preacher Mohamed Abu Gabal who joined the protest.

I'm not sure what to do with this psychopathic for some religion, at least as practiced by too many. I also say, "buy your friends Danish cookies and hams for Christmas, or just stick with the cookies, if they are Jewish. Killing someone just because they are an American, and most likely an American who opposed the supposed injuring the prophet video, is not unlike hating a President just because he is black, and inherited an economy on the rocks. We don't have anyone in this country like that, now do we? Just ask the Secret Service.

I hear they'll be selling Korans by the cord this winter...

TomKenworth

Hadn't refreshed and caught the earlier posts by Todd and Ryan. A religion when practiced with no sense of humor is a very dangerous. I ever so much like the Snoopy cartoon wherein Snoopy discusses the perfect title for his book on religion, "Have you ever thought that you might be Wrong?"

Steven Frisch

First and foremost it should be said that the actions of mobs on the street in Cairo and Benghazi are despicable acts of violence that can never, and should never be condoned. Free speech, even when stupid speech, is a core American value, and a value that we project around the world, not just hold for our own citizens.

But lets also be clear, the actions of the Romney campaign overnight, and this morning, are unwarranted, unprofessional, and out of standing with standard operating practice regarding American foreign policy during a Presidential campaign.

The statement made by the Cairo embassy was an attempt to moderate the crowds on the ground while they were defending their walls. The embassy made the statement fully knowledgable of the fact that the situation could spin out of control and trigger similar acts of violence across the region.

Based solely on the knowledge of what was said at the embassy in Cairo, and without checking with the Obama administration, the Romney campaign made statements questioning American policy, and the specific actions then being taken on the ground, to protect American personnel.

While they were making statements purely to try to gain political advantage, the administration was fully engaged in a new developing crises in Benghazi, which led to the deaths of 4 Americans; regrouping their forces to protect the consulate, clearing the street where the deaths occurred and protecting the remaining staff.

For Mr. Romney to violate one of the cardinal (no pun) principles of American electoral politics, and jump into a developing foreign policy crises while it is occurring, and not coordinate that activity with the administration, is not only risky and misguided, it is an example of how knee jerk HIS foreign policy is likely to be.

Foreign crises should lead to uniting on the domestic front, when it is in the moment. If one wants to attack foreign policy at the appropriate time, that is fair game---but not while the Marines are clearing the street and the families of the dead have not even beed notified yet.

Russ Steele

Frisch @08:02

Did you get this Democratic Talking Paper by e-mail or was it Faxed? I suspect cut and paste from and e-mail.

Steven Frisch

Nonsense Russ, came by it all by myself. Since all of your talking points come from right wing blogs, science deniers, Koch funded think tanks, and fake newspapers, I can see why you would not be able to identify independent thought.

But hey, if this was the other way around you would be saying exactly the same thing about a Democratic challenger. Face it. Romney jumped the gun...he should have waited, conferred, and come up with a response that pointed out how his leadership would be different while supporting the administrations immediate actions.

As we are talking we are staging Marines to move into Benghazi to protect American personnel. Can you seriously say that if this was Kerry responding to Bush in September of 2004 that you would have said, "Hey, no problem".

By the way, breaking news, rioting continuing outside the embassy wall in Cairo right now....

George Rebane

re StevenF 802am - This sentiment from the Left is expected (TomK's 645am gratefully excepted). The main point made is not a sense of outrage against radical Islam, but instead a criticism of the fine points of US electoral politics. Romney is spot on criticizing Obama's reaction. I am wondering why we haven't heard about a flight of B-2s or F-117s taking out some significant Lybian (or Egyptian?) resource. Are we now avenging from behind as the next innovative part of Obama's apologetic diplomacy?

Steven Frisch

I guess starting a post with the statement "first and foremost" does not mean anything to you George, you insist on projecting your won twisted interpretation on what others say.

By the way---who you gonna bomb? You have the names and addresses of the perpetrators? Or are you planning on bombing indiscriminately? Who? The government in Egypt or Libya?---seems like they have troops in the street helping us. A mosque? But which one---the closest one? the most radical one? A 'significant Libyan or Egyptian resource'? Like what, the harbor in Benghazi? the Great Pyramid?

In the USA we do not kill 10 civilians for every casualty we suffer. That's what makes us different from the Nazi's and the Stalinists.

By the way, I thought you wanted us to refrain from using the term "rag head" because it might affect the delicate sensibilities of your Sikh friend? I guess sensitivity is relative?

George Rebane

StevenF 904am - First and foremost we have condoned the ongoing wanton killings of the innocents by the ragheads, and as of this moment continue to condone these killings. Your lame statement itself is testimony to it.

And asking me to nominate targets from a classified target list as your strong argument for inaction is beyond silly. Reagan nominated Kadafi's bedroom; I wouldn't have known to do something like that. Apparently neither does Obama.

TomKenworth

Who would Jesus bomb might be appropriate here. How about instead offering cash dollars for the rockets stashed in far away places, or for information leading to locating them? Better yet, devise counterfeit rockets, get them into the international arms trade, track them via GPS, and blow them up in unexpected places via remote control?

Love those SeaFoxes: http://gizmodo.com/5925833/the-strait-of-hormuz-will-keep-flowing-thanks-to-the-sea-fox

Steven Frisch

Nice dissembling George--my 'first and foremost' preceded a condemnation of the acts, not a turn of a phrase---and asking you to define targets was an illustration of the fact that these actions were by individuals on the ground who are as yet unidentified. If it is your position that we should engage in retaliatory air strikes against indiscriminate targets I will merely point out that those acts would be the functional equivalent of interrogating your aunt with a bloody Nagant pistol on the table. Fortunately the foreign policy team we have in place has not sunk to the level you propose-acting like Nazis and Stalinists.

Gregory

"But lets also be clear, the actions of the Romney campaign overnight, and this morning, are unwarranted, unprofessional, and out of standing with standard operating practice regarding American foreign policy during a Presidential campaign." -Frisch

Let me translate... Romney scored some points. Obama's middle East policies are failing, and the Obama mystique isn't playing well in Egypt or Libya.

Steven Frisch

Let me translate--Romney's poorly timed statement has raised the ire of main line Republican foreign policy experts.

Go read the comments coming out on Politico, BuzzFeed, The Hill and Roll Call--main line Republicans almost to a person, condemning the attack and avoiding questioning the Presidents response until they know more and can coordinate with the administration policy. Romney did not score points, he undermined the President and his policy while in the middle of a crises.

George Rebane

StevenF 935am - The President would not be striking at "indiscriminate targets", nor would I advise him to do so. But a forceful and rapid strike against selected targets is called for by my lights, especially given the precision systems we have for such missions. And anyone else coming over the wall in Cairo should immediately receive the best that the Marines can deliver, while reinforcements are on the way. Egyptian police standing nearby and scratching their asses while our embassy is stormed does not cut it.

I guess this kind of globally apparent vacillation is what Hillary was talking about in 2008.

THEMIKEYMCD

I would have to see an ex-ray to believe that Obama has a spine. IMO, Romney did not say enough. Our PC culture makes us vulnerable. Paul E and I stand together in our belief that decades of nation building have done more to hurt the USA than help.

I say bring our troops (ambassadors, aid, personnel) home and leave all small weapons there; they can kill themselves (a la South Central LA).

Producing our own oil would solve much of this needless violence on Americans.

Steven Frisch

I am with you that anyone coming over the wall and presenting a threat should be shot.....but I am watching pictures of Egyptian police fighting with demonstrators in the street this morning....and reading that Egyptian and Libyan security forces fought in the street against the demonstrators. It is easy to say they were scratching their asses, but you don't really know do you? NO, YOU DON'T. And you don't know who we should "hit", and my guess is that the administration doesn't yet either.

So you are just venting. Blowing off steam. Just like Mitt, speaking out of school. I don't think knee jerk reactions are a good basis for either military or foreign policy.

I think Lee Marvin may have said it best, "I always thought you were cold and uncaring, But you are really quite emotional aren't you?"

THEMIKEYMCD

Q : What is it going to take to get us the hell out of the middle east?

A : Voter outrage (thank you Ron Paul) about American Blood shed for OIL and drastically increased domestic OIL production.

Steven Frisch

We may have found the one thing that MikeyMcD and I can almost agree on---with the exception of the alternative: we need to continue using oil and natural gas, but transition to renewable energy over a 30 year period.

Gregory

Almost, Frisch. We need to continue to use oil, natural gas, other carbon based fuels and Nuclear energy until "renewable energy" is competitive on a cost basis.

Forcing it before then is tantamount to taxing the poor and the middle classes for the audacity to drive to work or to stay warm in the winter.

George Rebane

NPR and Fox News both reported that Egyptian police were standing by, watching the demonstrators go over the wall to get our flag. There were no reports on the reaction of the Lybian security forces.

Steven Frisch

Hey Greg, I have never said we should be going cold turkey on energy. years ago on these blogs, I stated that it needed to be a gradual transition; that we needed to manage and wean ourselves; that we should be using federal and state funding to drive innovation; incentives to drive new technology; incentives to diversify our energy portfolio; and rebates to achieve specific objectives; but that the ultimate goal is for the marketplace to be able to sustain renewable energy at a lower cost than carbon based fuels. Never called for cold turkey or even a speedy transition--George, Russ and other have simply framed the issue that way.

Steven Frisch

Funny George, I am widely reading the media on this as well, and numerous sources, including CNN, have identified local police and security forces in both countries engaged against demonstrators on the street.

This just goes to exemplify my main point---action should be calculated and considered, based on information and some internal consultation--not knee jerk......

THEMIKEYMCD

"renewable energy" is a fairytale.

The logging industry was crushed by enviro-nuts, despite being a renewable.

Drill here, drill now. Get the hell out of the middle east.

THEMIKEYMCD

From twitter:

Demetrius Minor ‏@dminor85 "Obama will be out to address the media on Egypt as soon as he is done serving coffee to President Clinton."

"Let's visit memory lane: When Bush skipped NAACP convention, the press threw a tantrum. Obama skips his intelligence briefings. *CRICKETS* "

Joñ G. ‏@ExJon "If Romney wants to avoid press criticism he should stop giving press conferences and start shooting up embassies. "

Frank J. Fleming ‏@IMAO_ "Why don't we all be quite about this Middle East stuff until Biden releases the definitive statement on it."

Gregory

Steven Frisch, your transition to renewables wouldn't have to be forced by government edict were they near parity to the cost of even pre-fracking extraction technologies. Energy Sec'y Chu stated they needed to get better by a factor of six and that was before the gusher of proven domestic reserves.

AB32 is part of the bankrupting of California, and your horribly misnamed Sierra Business Council is one of the rent-seekers helping to push it to the edge of the abyss. The threat of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change is the only real justification and that's rapidly losing credibility.

Dixon Cruickshank

Not sure what CNN is saying but apparently according to accurate sources the staff was moved to a second building thought to be safer. The Libyian Security detail then pointed out their new location, and if you think this has anything to do with some UTube video your dumber than I thought.

By the way, being 9/11 any thoughtful President would have anticipated potenial problems in both those countries and had adaquate security. I know Bush would have and I presume Mitt would have, its not rockect science and couple bodyguards is woefully inadaquate - obviously. So you are disgusted and everyone is remorseful BFD that don't get it.

Steven Frisch

Greg, I don;t want to get sidetracked on this thread on energy policy---I only went there because you did. I was saying that MCD is right, we are in the middle east to protect oil production--and that would not be the case if we could satisfy our needs domestically, however we get there.

George Rebane

Regarding StevenF's comments and repartees on 9/11 and now energy - I for one am grateful that RR readers can see how an involved and activist liberal argues their positions. It is always better to get the first person version than to do a second person report/commentary on their sentiments. Sometimes you just can't find the proper words to correctly characterize their position. And when you do, it often comes off as unbelievable.

Steven Frisch

Yeah George...kind of like Dr. Stangelove....just letting you talk is the best defense against your ideas.

Gregory

"Greg, I don;t want to get sidetracked on this thread on energy policy---I only went there because you did."

Absolute bs, Frisch. Your 10:48 "we need to continue using oil and natural gas, but transition to renewable energy over a 30 year period." precedes any mention of the subject by me.

Gregory

Let's also be clear; a forced march over a 30 year period away from fossil fuels *IS* going cold turkey and will result in middle class Americans being cold in the winter, hot in the summer, and more of the poor in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd world suffering from malnutrition.

Christopher R Schofield

http://imgur.com/a/tlCyI

The actions of the few do not represent all Muslims. Just as the actions of fundamental Christians bombing abortion clinics and U.S. soldiers burning Qurans do not represent all Christians or Americans.

George Rebane

ChristopherS 304pm - thank you for the images of Arabs gathering to support America and our fallen ambassador.

Please be disabused that on these pages we are not talking about infrequent/rare occurrences, but a growing asymmetrical tsunami of cross-cultural hatred that has demonstrated its vitriol for centuries. And nobody here has made the "represent all" claim against Islam, but against a goodly fraction of them. Nevertheless, your presentation of those counter examples is duly noted.

Steven Frisch

Greg My 10:48 was in response to McD--you then commented to me on it. And like I said, lets save this thread for talking about bombing people and we can use another thread to talk about using our resources up like selfish pigs and leaving nothing behind.

George Rebane

Just finished watching some segments of “Innocence of Muslims”, the film in question, on YouTube. It is truly a pathetic example of filmcraft, and truly insulting to Islam (something similar Hollywood's more polished productions on Christ that insult all Christians). In all its dimensions the production is of a quality put together in haste by some high school pranksters. YouTube reports its posted origin as being from a Sam Bacile.

It is hard to believe that any group of intelligent Muslims would take such a piece of detritus seriously because of its extremely low quality and ease of online distribution. (YouTube has now blocked it in selected countries.) It is though easy to accept that already 'cocked' Islamic populations with a high fraction of America haters would use such a posting as a ready made excuse to publicly demonstrate their hatred, especially if they see a weakened Great Satan.

Obama has now moved two naval vessels closer to Libya. Let's hope he that his political senses tell him to act.

Gregory

"we can use another thread to talk about using our resources up like selfish pigs and leaving nothing behind"

We now have centuries of recoverable fossil fuel reserves, Steve. I think it's up to the people you would have be poor to decide whether they are the pigs, or you and the other carbon rent-seekers are.

It really isn't a difficult concept; renewable energies are not currently ready for prime time. Relatively inexpensive fossil fuels have liberated mankind, and they will never be completely used up. If they actually get scarce they will rise in price and, assuming (and this is a good assumption) alternative PV and clean nuclear (fission and fusion) improved in price and performance, there will be a point where the transition happens from the natural market forces without rent-seekers pushing their Lemmings off the fiscal cliff.

Paul Emery

Yes Mikey

We agree on this for sure. I'm a strong supporter of Ron Paul on foreign policy.

This is an exert from Why We Fight which was a harsh critique of our war in Iraq. Though we are not directly involved militarily in Libya or Egypt the essence of Jihad uses the entire middle east as a landscape.

"The most important misjudgment regarding Iraq that must be dealt with is the charge that Muslim terrorists attack us out of envy for our freedoms, our prosperity, and our way of life. There is no evidence this is the case. On the contrary, those who have extensively researched this issue conclude that the #1 reason suicide terrorists attack anywhere in the world is because their land is occupied by a foreign military power. Pretending otherwise and constantly expanding our military presence in more Arab and Muslim countries as we have since 1990 has only increased the danger of more attacks on our soil, as well as in those countries that have allied themselves with us. If we deny this truth we do so at our own peril."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul274.html

George Rebane

Well, according to the latest reports it turns out that Romney was spot on with the substance of his criticism. And to that I add that my report of Egyptian police sitting on their asses, and Libyan security forces colluding with the attackers is also correct.

Obama's WH seemed to go through multiple zigs and zags with their Libyan embassy on when which apology should be posted, concurred with, or withdrawn. The WH finally prevailed, and the apology which Romney criticized was withdrawn.

On top of that it appears clear that the Libyan attack and Egyptian riot(s) were long planned to occur on 9/11 as revenge for killing an Al Qaeda leader. My surmising commentary on the use of the insulting video as a trigger is now making the airwaves with both left and right agreeing that it was used as an opportune asset abetted by the opportune apology issued by our Egyptian embassy.

It clearly appears that Team Obama was and continues to be outflanked on their handling of this event. But then, what did we expect out of a socialist-in-training with a background in community organizing? The Muslim communities of north Africa and the mid-east are a bit harder to organize.

Paul Emery

Most politicos both liberal and conservative believe Romney missed a great opportunity to keep his mouth shut on this one. His comments in the midst of a crucial time frame undermined the interests of this country and revealed how totally desperate he is.

George Rebane

PaulE 617pm - most certainly we both are covering the waterfront on Romney's response. The commentaries I viewed had none of the undermining or desperation that you have picked up. The only mild critique that I encountered was that his correctness on the substance of his remarks came perhaps a bit early, thereby giving rise to all the stuff that you have gleefully seen.

We are still waiting for the meaning of Obama's "not condoning" these attacks. Perhaps a few more pieces of US sovereign territories torched will stiffen his resolve to do what? As I said before, maybe he's planning to avenge from behind. I think Romney will have a field day.

David King

Those idiots killed an ambassador for this???
It reminds me of a 1980's San Fernando Valley porn film!

Pathetic!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntgzoE7rU9A

Paul Emery

George

Here you go

I can go on and on. Roomney is now -6 in the Fox Poll

New York Daily News

Awful.

Political, exploitative, opportunistic.

As Rudy Giuliani learned when he ran for President the American people do not like politicians trying to exploit political mileage from the blood of our dead.

In boxing, a reckless roundhouse punch like Romney's is the mark of a desperate "amacha" reeling on the ropes after Obama scored a five-point post-convention bump in the polls.

Romney's Libyan punch missed by a mile and as we bury more innocent Americans killed on Sept. 11, it leaves Romney open for the kind of counterpunch from which even the best fighters often don't recover.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/romney-disgraceful-words-libya-attack-kills-u-s-ambassador-article-1.1157485#ixzz26JL8eiCP


“He bobbled it,” Republican lobbyist Ed Rogers told the Post of the news conference. “It’s important that he present himself as serious, poised and credible during this time, and I thought his statement this morning was unpolished, a little too off-the-cuff for the occasion, and the contrast he set with Obama was not good.”

Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.), chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said Romney was ”right on the larger point,” but “I probably would have waited a day or half a day.” The Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol was also supportive of the Romney campaign’s argument, but said it was fair to “question the timing and tone.”

Mark Salter, a longtime aide to Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), called the “rush to condemn” Obama, by Romney and other Republicans, “as tortured in its reasoning as it is unseemly in its timing.”

The Wall Street Journal’s Peggy Noonan said on Fox News Wednesday morning that Romney “has not been doing himself any favors. … I always think discretion is the better way to go.”

Anonymously, Republican critics were more blunt.

“They were just trying to score a cheap news cycle hit,” a “very senior Republican foreign policy hand” said to BuzzFeed. “Not ready for primetime,” said a nameless former aide to John McCain in the same piece.

And “several Republican aides and Romney advisers” told Politico that “Romney may have ended up further out on a limb than his team originally intended.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/election-2012/wp/2012/09/12/romney-takes-hits-from-fellow-republicans/

David King

Oh yes Paul, Romney should quit because he prematurely commented on the Embassy apology for very bad porn.
This outrage by the media is the biggest non-story I have ever read. I hope you don’t faint Paul.

George Rebane

PaulE 721pm - I don't know what more to say. It seems that you're now proposing that we cancel the remainder of the campaign and the November election, and put the time and money saved for one helluva coronation bash next January.

Have you called Romney's office about this?

Paul Emery

No George

I'm just amazed at what an ineffective candidate Romney is against a weak incumbent. I honestly feel the Repubs threw the last election by picking Sarah P for veep and I don't think they really want top win this one. They have encumbered Romney with a profoundly unpopular platform and terrible campaign management and strategy. To quote Laura Ingram "If you can't beat Barack Obama with this record, then shut down the party. Shut it down. Start new, with new people."

Russ Steele

Paul,
I think that you are way too early with your critique and should sit back for a few minutes and let the events play out. This whole episode is looking like amateur hour by the State Department and the White House. It is only the press that has decided to turn events into a Romney gaffe. When Romney gave a press conference Wednesday, the questions focused on whether it was appropriate for him to criticize Obama at the time he did. Romney's responses didn't really matter, because reporters had already decided their narrative. I nstead of scrutinizing Obama's handling of a foreign policy crisis, the media has decided that the real story in Egypt and Libya is a Mitt Romney gaffe.

But, the crisis is not over. Clashes continued into the night, with protesters attacking police with stones and petrol bombs. What is Obama going to do? When there was no strong and definitive reply the mob knows that they are winning and will not give up. The opportunity for a strong response has been lost, and now the mob will win and Obama will lose. When Obama loses, then Romney wins. Stay tuned.

Steven Frisch

Romney will be down even more than 6 points after this bonehead move today. Of course we should hold the election. The way Romney is deconstructing perhaps the Democrats can take Congress back! This is what happens when a party purges all of it foreign policy experts because they are not pro-life, anti-immigrant, anti-birth control, birther, science denying, zealots.

Russ Steele

Inside the public relations disaster at the Cairo embassy, from the FP Cable.

Posted By Josh Rogin Wednesday, September 12, 2012

One staffer at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo was responsible for the statement and tweets Tuesday that have become grist for the presidential campaign, and that staffer ignored explicit State Department instructions not to issue the statement, one U.S. official close to the issue told The Cable.

Two additional administration officials confirmed the details of this account when contacted late Wednesday by The Cable.

The statement, issued as a press release on the U.S. Embassy website, has been attacked by Republican challenger Mitt Romney, lawmakers, and conservatives around the country as an inappropriate "apology" and a failure to stand up for American principles such as freedom of speech.
The White House distanced itself from the statement Tuesday, and Romney criticized it directly in his initial reaction to the attacks in Egypt and Libya shortly thereafter, accusing President Barack Obama of evicing sympathy for the attackers.

On Wednesday, Romney doubled down on that criticism, saying, "I think it's a terrible course for America to apologize for our values."

President Obama commented on the controversy in an interview to be aired Wednesday evening on 60 Minutes.

"In an effort to cool the situation down, it didn't come from me, it didn't come from Secretary Clinton. It came from people on the ground who are potentially in danger," Obama said. "And my tendency is to cut folks a little bit of slack when they're in that circumstance, rather than try to question their judgment from the comfort of a campaign office."

But Obama's remarks belie the enormous frustration of top officials at the State Department and White House with the actions of the man behind the statement, Cairo senior public affairs officer Larry Schwartz, who wrote the release and oversees the embassy's Twitter feed, according to a detailed account of the Tuesday's events.

Amateurs. You can read the rest HERE:

Gregory

"Most politicos both liberal and conservative believe Romney missed a great opportunity to keep his mouth shut on this one. His comments in the midst of a crucial time frame undermined the interests of this country and revealed how totally desperate he is." Paul Emery | 06:17 PM

Of course, that didn't stop partisan Democrats, like John Kerry, his opponent in the election, from attacking Bush's foreign policy *while* Bush was on foreign soil.

The double standards would be breathtaking were they not so predictable.

David King

I know you’re interviewing Steve, but the position of “Obama fanboy” has already been filled by the media. :)

TomKenworth

" Sam Bacile." "Imbecile" It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.

Or this:

http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/the-global-1-exposing-the-transnational-ruling-class/

TomKenworth

The whole Constitution Day Parade is now up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/collections/72157631493200158/

Todd Juvinall

My Patriot Blue Dodge pickup was in the parade. Any pictures of it? BTW, I looked at a few f yur pics, and say good job!

Russ Steele

An empty chair was responsible for the attacks on America in North Africa. These attacks were connected to 9/11 and the empty chair missed the intelligence necessary to prevent the carnage by beefing up Embassy security. Empty chairs always lead from behind.

According to the White House calendar, there is no public record of President Barack Obama attending his daily intelligence briefing–known as the Presidential Daily Brief (PDB)–in the week leading up to the attacks on the U.S. embassy in Cairo and the murder of U.S. Libyan Ambassador Chris Stevens and three American members of his staff:

9/6/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-06

9/7/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-07

9/8/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-08

9/9/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-09

9/10/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-10

9/11/2012- http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule/president/2012-09-11

The last time prior to the slayings that the White House calendar publicly confirms Mr. Obama attending his daily intelligence briefing was September 5th. (The White House did not provide an official public calendar for September 8-10.) Mr. Obama and Vice President Joe Biden met with Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta at 5:00 p.m. yesterday.

Bush never missed an intelligence briefing and I have doubts that Romney would either. An empty chair got us into this mess.

TomKenworth

Todd, your truck and candidate are in this set. Click to enlarge: http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/sets/72157631520500576/

Russ, are you saying you know that the intelligence committee had advanced knowledge of the attack, but because Obama didn't show, nobody told him, or at least called the embassy? And now they are covering it up?

That seems so plausible. Especially considering Tillman and "No Easy Day." Shall we throw in Building 7 at the WTC? As one of 310,000,000 folks in this country well outside the Power Elite, I'll be damned if I know anything for sure.

TomKenworth

"Bush never missed an intelligence briefing" Wasn't there one in August 2001, that indicated that 9/11 was about to happen? Maybe you should review Bush on the Spot for his inactions then?

Gregory

No, Doug, there was no advance warning that an attack was going to occur on 9/11, what the warned imminent threat might be, or where and when it might occur.

Archie Bunker had an answer for hijackings... "Arm the passengers". While that wasn't appropriate, it was the decades of training to submit to hijacker's demands so everybody gets to go home that left us open to bin Laden's tactic. Once the news got to the passengers of the final aircraft, they figured out that was no longer the case, and we are all grateful for their actions to stop the planned attack.


"I'll be damned if I know anything for sure"

A statement far more true than you intended.

Gregory

"Romney will be down even more than 6 points after this bonehead move today. Of course we should hold the election. The way Romney is deconstructing perhaps the Democrats can take Congress back! This is what happens when a party purges all of it foreign policy experts because they are not pro-life, anti-immigrant, anti-birth control, birther, science denying, zealots." Steven Frisch | 12 September 2012 at 09:39 PM

And today we have:

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 47% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns 46% of the vote. Three percent (3%) prefer some other candidate, and five percent (5%) are undecided.

This is the first time in a week that Romney has held even a single-point advantage."

TomKenworth

And I'll be double damned if Greg knows anything worth knowing at all. Truer yet!

TomKenworth

"No, Doug, there was no advance warning that an attack was going to occur on 9/11, what the warned imminent threat might be, or where and when it might occur."

So Greg joins Russ in having an intimate connection to the President's security teams, and is willing to suggest that there was advanced warning in this case, including time and date and location, or some a' la carte combination of these.

Oh Really???

Gregory

Keachie/Kenworth, you invent BS faster than it can be can be cleaned up. Have you stopped beating your wife?

If you think there was ever a report specifying a day, or even the form of an expected attack, cough up a source.

Steven Frisch

Re: Gregory | 13 September 2012 at 01:17 PM

A better poll tracker than Rasmussen

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

A better single pol than Rasmussen.....Gallop.

Todd Juvinall

Rasmussen ws the most accurate poll in 2008. I trust their questions and their breakout over the rest.

Ryan Mount

Method: Rely on polling data to attract potential voters to your bandwagon. "Don't miss being like everyone else. 50 million Elvis Fans can't be wrong."

Incentive: Because there is so much riding on polling data as a means to attract voters, the potential (incentive) for manipulation by powerful elites seems to follow:

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/August/12-civ-1036.html

Hey, why doesn't this Justice Department action, as much as yesterday's Fed Fannie and Freddie pumping actions DURING A CRITICAL PERIOD OF THE ELECTION CYCLE bother us? Of course not!

Answer: Ignore the polling data and focus on the issues. Be Madison's informed and [forgive the patriarchal language] manly.* Don't allow others to make the decisions for you.


*"If it be asked what is to restrain the House of Representatives from making legal discriminations in favor of themselves and a particular class of the society? I answer, the genius of the whole system, the nature of just and constitutional laws, and above all the vigilant and manly spirit which actuates the people of America, a spirit which nourishes freedom, and in return is nourished by it." ~James Madison, Federalist No. 57

Ryan Mount

manly voter*. But you can just be manly if you want.

Steven Frisch

Hey geniuses, even the FoxNews poll has Obama up by 5 points. I am not arguing any point other than the one I stated in my first comment on this thread. Romney should have waited until he knew what was going on, conferred with foreign policy experts, and considered the impact his statements would have on the developing crises in the middle east...just like Ronald Reagan did in 1980 during the Iran hostage rescue effort. Instead he sought advantage; valuing advantage over the cautious development of effective policy. In short, he showed his true mettle in this event, and the American people will punish him for it.

If the attack in Benghazi was an organized terrorist attack, that's not proof of Romney's point, it is all the more reason to be smart, cautious, and at the appropriate time, strike with a mailed fist.

As I said to George somewhere, the USA is not the one that comes into a village and shots every tenth person as retaliation. That is not, and never should be, who we are.

And really Todd, did you really say on another thread that all Obama and Clinton do is yap? You actually think that is going to stick? I think Joe got it right Osama Bin Ladin is dead and GM is alive. Try overcoming that in Ohio!

Steven Frisch

Ooops...should read "shoots" of course.

Paul Emery

Todd

The most accurate poll analyst in 2008 was Nate Silver. He concludes that Obama has a nearly 80% chance to win at this time. The accuracy of his November 2008 presidential election predictions—he correctly predicted the winner of 49 of the 50 states—won Silver attention and commendation. The only state he missed was Indiana, which went for Barack Obama by 1%. He also correctly predicted the winner of all 35 Senate races that year.

TomKenworth

"No, Doug, there was no advance warning that an attack was going to occur on 9/11, what the warned imminent threat might be, or where and when it might occur."

And Greg was there any advanced warning, etc. in the Benghazi Attack? Do you agree with Steele that this was the case, and that Obama therefore failed act appropriately?

Are you that (pick your favorite description of lack of IQ and/or common sense)?

The Betterman is Coming!

TomKenworth

I would agree that all foreign aid be suspended to any country that allows attacks on our embassies to approach within 100 feet. Where's the leadership on Romney/Ryan's part on this simple but effective means of getting foreign governments to do their job.

TomKenworth

Cairo's concrete blocks are a step in the right direction. Next, water cannons to knock those off the top of the barrier. Gym pads below optional.

TomKenworth

Slather the blocks with Vaseline, and put impaling stakes on the inside. Supposedly that's how Vlad the Impaler stopped the Muslims of the Ottoman Empire way back when.

Ryan Mount

>Where's the leadership on Romney/Ryan's part

Romney is not the President and Ryan is one of but 535 members of Congress. As the opposition Party, as it was for the Democrats 2001 - 2008, it's their job to protest what they think is right. But in terms of leadership in our government, that's the clear role of the Executive Branch.

I would like to understand the reasoning, other than the obvious, why the Marines in Cairo weren't armed. Who's idea was that?

George Rebane

RyanM 1015am - Agreed. And it was the idea, one of a similar legion, of our Amateur-in-Chief.

TomKenworth

Romney aspires to direct the country, and is making all kinds of suggestions for how he will proceed, and what he finds wrong with Obama. This is definitely an item we need to hear from him on. Are you unable to distinguish between Romney and Ryan and say, Barbara Boxer?

Ryan Mount

I'm hesitant to dignify that with a response suffice to say what I've already said above. The "distinction" is rather obvious, I would hope. Boxer and Ryan are members of the Legislative Branch...they do not, and should not for goodness sake, "execute."

This is the job of the President. Romney is currently a private citizen who has, nor should have, any authority in this matter and more than members of an conservative foothills blog. The only thing Romney, again thank goodness, has is his 1st Amendment rights. If he does take the office, and right now Obama is starting to smell like 1979 Carter minus the peace treaties, he can take over where Obama left off and launch Hellfires at inspecting villages.

Gregory

"And Greg was there any advanced warning, etc. in the Benghazi Attack? Do you agree with Steele that this was the case, and that Obama therefore failed act appropriately?" -Keachie/Kenworth/Betterman 902AM

I've not been reading Steele, but here's a link for you, Doug:

"Revealed: inside story of US envoy's assassination
Exclusive: America 'was warned of embassy attack but did nothing'"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html

We'll have to wait to find out if that was something Obama could have inquired about had he been attending security briefings as religiously as his fundraisers.

Ryan Mount

Sorry for the typos of late folks. My mind is elsewhere, as it should be. I beg your pardon Mr. Rebane for littering your blog with obvious and careless errors.

any* more than members

and...

at unsuspecting* villages

Gregory

"Hey geniuses, even the FoxNews poll has Obama up by 5 points." -Frisch

Golly Steve, FoxNews isn't a source I rely on for news or polling. Especially polling. Given the leftwing Pew Research and generally rightwing Rasmussen polls were tied as the best at polling in the last presidential cycle, let's see what Rasmussen has to say (Pew isn't in full election mode yet):

"The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday [today-gg] shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 48% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns 45% of the vote."

I really don't blame you for trying to pull your bandwagon past the reviewing stands, but it doesn't seem to be going as well for you as you are claiming.

Gregory

"Sorry for the typos of late folks. My mind is elsewhere, as it should be. I beg your pardon Mr. Rebane for littering your blog with obvious and careless errors"

Ryan, there's something about the tiny window and near real time editing that also leaves typographical, ummm, oversights, in far too many of my contributions. I generally let them pass, vowing to myself to pause for a moment to proofread more effectively in the future, a process that is invariably 100% accurate only after the posting. Sometimes even before the screen has managed to refresh.

In short, don't sweat it.

George Rebane

As on the national scene, here in our microcosm the Left likes to talk about polls and "Romney's gaffe", rather than anything about Obama's foreign policy - its record and current responses to unfolding events. Were I one of Barack's supporters, I wouldn't want to get into that cesspool myself. Much more fun to see if I can divert by constructing other cesspools out of thin air, and then rage about how much they smell (if only they were real).

As I point out in 'Ruminations - 14sep12', even the lamestream is busy in such pursuits.

TomKenworth

" he can take over where Obama left off and launch Hellfires at inspecting villages."
~ Ryan Mount | 14 September 2012 at 10:51 AM~

I expect that as foreign policy this may be somewhat suspect.

"I've not been reading Steele, but here's a link for you, Doug:"
~ Gregory | 14 September 2012 at 10:54 AM"

So you did not read Steele in this very topic at: Russ Steele | 13 September 2012 at 07:25 AM ???

I assumed that if you expected me and others to read everything you write, then you must be doing so yourself. Wrong again am I?

Gregory

"So you did not read Steele in this very topic at: Russ Steele | 13 September 2012 at 07:25 AM ???"

Nope

"I assumed that if you expected me and others to read everything you write"

I don't. Sorry to burst your bubble.

THEMIKEYMCD

Obama in a landslide. Period.

Intrade has Obama at 66%+ of the vote (predicted every state correctly in the last pres election)

HEI (Hedgeye Election Index) has Obama at over 62% chance of victory.

The Fed's action to print dollars forever and as much as they want and the media monopoly that still exists despite Obama's failures has sealed the deal.

Repubs should be more focused on who to run in 2016.

Gregory

"Intrade has Obama at 66%+ of the vote (predicted every state correctly in the last pres election)"

At this time of the election cycle in 2008 Intrade was predicting a mccain victory. Intrade is also open to partisan manipulation.

A few weeks ago, the market was predicting a rosy future for Facebook. Place your bets.

Ryan Mount

Mikey-

Since we're horse racing, I tend to agree with you both of your analyses, particularly since Romney seems weak on so many fronts. The latest round of Fed stupid pumping ("agency" mortgages no less! = Fannie and Freddie) will probably start grabbing hold just around election time. However we still have two months, and there are plenty of more Embassies to run over.

Doug-

> I expect that as foreign policy this may be somewhat suspect.

I don't understand this comment.

TomKenworth

Ryan, much as I couldn't understand your original post, on which it was based.

Greg, the usual etiquette is to at least read the recent posts within a thread, before jumping to the moon.

Polls, smolls, what counts is Election Day, ask Truman's ghost.

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