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22 October 2012


Jesus Betterman

How about Emperor Sheldon Edison, under Federal investigation, for donating 100 million to the SuperPacs supporting Romney and Ryan? He who has the most footballs, controls the game. Bet he's looking forward to his very expensive "Get Out of Jail Free," card, if Mittens gets a White House in his sock for Christmas. The only DC I want to see Romney in is DCV, UT. Duck Creek Village: http://www.dreambreeze.com/Photos/UtahPO/DuckCreekStores.jpg

Ryan Mount

> Has our UN ambassador Susan Rice resigned yet?

I'm still reeling by how Hillary Clinton was throne under the bus over this Libya business. What did Oscar Wilde once say? "A true friend stabs you in the front."

Arguably she has done more work around the globe notably for women and children's issues than any other recent Democrat, including this current President. I frankly think she upstages him.

Jesus Betterman

A Throne under the bus is a Throne I'd just as soon not own.

You really think Romney can win with images like this circulating on the left and center?

Taxation with Mitt Representation

Paul Emery

Do those of you who wish to have Clinton resign and Obama take responsibility for the Libya mess also believe Rummy should have resigned after the Pat Tillman cover up? Of course you remember this.


Billy T

Castro, Chavez and Putin are rock stars in their worlds. Celebrities that live and act like kings. Of course they would endorse Obama. No brainer. Bet that little dudette from Iran would rather exchange pleasantries with Obama than Romney if given a choice. Obama whispering sweet nothings into Putin's ear was classic. All about the election.

If Obama was smart he would launch drones on those who tortured and dragged our US born Ambassador through the streets and declare an agreement with the Ayatollahs of Persia next week, right before the election. A transparent October surprise, but an excellent political ploy nonetheless.

Maybe our Nobel Peace Prize winner can make nice with that guy who looks like a middle-aged woman in North Korea. They all can be trusted to support Obama.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, why can't you move on? You have a rock stuck in your craw about Bush and Company.

Billy T

Libya: its all Bush fault. Bush lied and the Ambassador died.

Paul Emery


I'm conceding that there appears to have been a coverup on the recent Libya fiasco. I'm just curious if you apply the same standards to the disgusting story of Pat Tillman. Is your outrage limited only to Democrats or are you truly concerned about truth from our elected leaders.

Account Deleted

You can't make this stuff up, folks. P Emery wants to know if the same standards are being applied. He admits that "there appears to have been a coverup". Appears? American soil was attacked and 4 Americans were murdered. The sorry excuse we have as Pres is now caught in lies and cover-up and Paul thinks that since other folks in the White House have lied, we should just carry on and ignore the whole thing. No, Paul, there is no double standard. There are plenty of folks like me that have been plenty pissed off at lies from 1600 Penn Ave for one H of a long time going back, in my case, to Johnson. The current Pres is Obama and he has been caught lying about his admins ineptitude and he should resign or be impeached. It's like getting a speeding ticket, Paul. You were speeding and it doesn't matter one good goat's rear end if everyone else is speeding past you while the cop writes your citation. Obama lied to the nation about all of this and needs to go now. I'm sure you can go back to Attila The Hun and find malfeasance, but that doesn't excuse everyone else since. It's you, Paul, that exhibits a double standard. You wanted Nixon impeached, right? But not your lefty Pres.
Doug's post is exhibit A of how ignorant the left truly is. Not sure why they want to brag about it. Maybe the left really is clueless about the tax code. There is only one set of rules for you and me and Romney, but if a lie helps to re-elect a liar, then go for it. You are aware that the anti Romney ad is untrue, don't you Doug? If you think it's true, please provide supporting info. Other wise, was it for our amusement?

Paul Emery


Was there a coverup in the Tillman situation and should Rumsfeld have resigned? Simple question. Impeach Obama? Really. Go for it.

Billy T

No need to impeach Obama. President Romney may pardon the fool, but I think it is better to put the dark days of the last 4 years behind us and heal the divide caused by the war on class and the war on women. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. Lets put this ugly chapter behind us and look back at it only thru safety glass. Forward. Yes, we can be united. We are all tired of change we all stepped in.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE, Tillman was killed by friendly fire. It was terrible and I still think about his sacrifice. Rumsfeld did resign if I recall correctly. You are stuck on something that stinks, try and getpast the stink man, you will be better off.

Ryan Mount

*Thrown. ironic typo.

Anyhow, there are always going to be cover-ups, run-arounds and other hyphenated fiascoes because these are a product of war.

Most Presidents has engaged in the fruitful distractions of war. I have my suspicions*, but I'm generally I'm mystified by the Obama supporter's convenient apology for his Bush II foreign policy doctrine. If something goes right, it's to Obama's credit; if something goes wrong, it's Bush's fault because he "inherited" it. Stupid is, as stupid does.

With that in mind, I'm surprised that the American Right is more supportive of Obama's actions, sans Libya, since he basically is following the Bush II playbook. maybe they are, but you won't hear about it during the election cycle. So much for putting country first.

* basically I think supporters have this fictitious/fantasy version of Obama in their heads.

George Rebane

RyanM 624am - Please summarize the Mount Doctrine that would put country first, and is not being followed today.

Ryan Mount

Mount Doctrine! I love it. I get to feel important for a few moments.

First off, my comments were directed at the outrage from all margins of this. There should be outrage everywhere, not just when my guy is winning or losing. Paul Emery is right to drag these issues up.

All Presidents engage in this kind of fact manipulation and spin control because war is chaotic and they do not want to be seen as incompetent. So I agree with both you(this Bengazi crap) and Paul (the Tillman thing). However I'm confused by the lack of willingness to concede these from both (all? many? It's more like a circle than a line) sides.

So, the "my country first" comment was pure snark, which is a rhetorical technique I learned from watching President Obama last night. However, in the spirit of honesty I want to be unequivocal when it comes to foreign policy, I'm pretty much in the Ron Paul Camp. So when I say "my country first," I mean literally the dirt we stand on and not some godforsaken dessert thousands of miles from here.

And just so I'm not sounding impractical or frankly disingenuous, I might support the USA as world police if I didn't have to pay for it. But as you've opined in the past, this (~600 billion dollars in annual Defense spending) is (might be, RM) just the price of admission to a relatively peaceful planet. I just don't think it's that simple and we're certainly not doing a good job as we drain the treasury for this purpose.

Besides, we have some 5000+ nuclear warheads either deployed or just waiting for the chance to turn an asshole country into molten glass. We've done it before.

Jesus Betterman

How's that "myth" about how this country is no longer racist doing? Seems to me that concept has been promoted here many times. If that is true, then how do you explain this???


This event is NOT a myth, and it happened yesterday, all for wearing an Obama t shirt.

Ryan Mount


This country ris decidedly racist as is every human on plant Earth, among other things. Only the sanctimonious bring crap like this up. But here's the answer:

We are all greedy, selfish and yes, racist. We're also dicks and most of us don't know the dinner fork from the salad fork. It's a matter of degree and access to power to inflict such un-virtues. Goodness exists on a spectrum of virtue and not some kind of fixed status. It's like being gay. For example:

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the least gay), I'm probably a 9 or a 10. Greg is probably a 6. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Jesus Betterman

"You are aware that the anti Romney ad is untrue, don't you Doug? If you think it's true, please provide supporting info. Other wise, was it for our amusement? "

Nope, you just made the claim that it is untrue, with no supporting material. Please review what Romney campaign itself has said about his income tax rates.


and then tell me again that the image I posted is untrue, and back up your explaination with plenty of detail, bring your roaches out to the light where we can all get a good look.

Account Deleted

Thanks, Paul. You continue the same line and prove my point. Whether Obama should be impeached and whether he will be and whether there will be a need to, are all different things. I'm content to let it play out. The Tillman episode was a tragedy that happens all the time in warfare and what ever cover up happened did not in any way affect national security. Obama is our current pres and he has lied to the American people about an assault on American soil in order to cover up his admin's incompetency that allowed this attack to succeed. He should now resign or be impeached. But he won't resign and the election could well put an end to the whole thing, anyway. Your constant equivocating is tiresome and childish. It doesn't matter whether or not Rumsfeld should have resigned. He's not in the govt any more and if Obama is voted out, then my brief against him will be moot as well. And we will deal with Romney then and I will hold him to the same standard. It is clear that our people in Benghazi were left open to be slaughtered in order to help Obama's narrative about his foreign policy look good. He then concocted a lie about a demonstration that didn't exist and blamed the whole thing on a movie. The terrorists are emboldened by this and Obama's willingness to walk away from the middle east. All of this is in the present and holds true no matter what you think of Rumsfeld or Attila The Hun or anyone else. Deal with reality, Paul.


Ryan, that sort of crap (9:38) is uncalled for.

Russ Steele


Spot on! The future is in front of us and we are unable to change the past. It is want it was, and now we need to focus on the present and our future.

Ryan Mount

OK, sorry. My bad Greg. I'm assuming you're disagreeing with my assessment and not my actual spectral analysis methodology.

So in the spirit of transparency I feel obligated to revise my assessment both up and down.

Greg: 8
Ryan: 7 (there was that time in college, but I was drunk and only have heard the details after the fact. It took me days to wash off the Sharpies. Perhaps I internalized androgyny too much in Critical Theory.)

George Rebane

Gentlemen, the spurious assessments of other commenters' sexual orientation (RyanM 938am) from the information available on these pages is of dubious accuracy, and diverting to the ideas discussed here. In short, that kind of crap does detract from our appointed round.

Jesus Betterman

A six and a nine,? Made for each other! where the heck did that line of thought come from, when discussing three KKK types setting a woman on fire for wearing an Obama t shirt?

George Rebane

JesusB 927am & 1035am - Doug, given the behavior of, say, gaussian distributions along any dimension of sentiment or behavior in a large population, where do you draw the line in concluding that our country is still "racist" (as you understand racism; my understanding is in the Glossary)?

To be specific, is one incident (such as you cite) per year in a population of 310 million sufficient? Does it take 2.5 incidents/year, or maybe 0.5 incidents/year, or maybe 10 incidents/year? Or are you a 'zero tolerance' kinda guy who will condemn the entire country as racist for any looney doing that kind of thing, no matter how infrequently? What is the measurable here that lets us declare we are no longer racist? Or does that occur when, according to your own counsel, anyone among you and yours deigns to declare us to have emerged into a post-racist era?

Ryan Mount

George, my apologies for whatever bothered people. Maybe it will be funny is 100 years. It was shtick I stole from a Comedy Central show when someone got all pissed off about the "gay agenda." I will avoid it in the future.

Anyhow my point was these things exist on a continuum. I chose 1 to 10. Now we might establish thresholds for such things, but that's what's at debate here, not some kind of racist litmus test. You'd think the Progressives would appreciate this kind of nuance. Apparently not if it doesn't suit their agenda: you're either a monster racist or a color blind Democrat.

I am very wary of anyone who sanctimoniously claims that the "other people" are racist or whatever. At a minimum, it takes one to know one. The implication here is that racism is a factor in this Presidential election. And you know what? It probably is, but not in a way that the Democrats use it or better, want to use racism as a lever to get more votes. It's cynical, unproductive and will backfire. But if Obama loses the White House, them finger-pointers can spend years excusing the loss.

I'm reminded of the 2000 election. Ralph Nader was second only to Al Gore in costing Al Gore the election.


"where the heck did that line of thought come from, when discussing three KKK types setting a woman on fire for wearing an Obama t shirt?"

We don't know what "types" set her on fire.

Jesus Betterman

Maybe you don't know Greg, but the tv station located there reports otherwise:

"Police confirm that racial slurs and the letters "KKK" were found written on the victim's vehicle. "

George, the black raised truck with with the four black baby doll heads that showed up at Republican HQ in the last election probably still exists, told it was from Chester area, and a zillion other "minor" indicators tell me we are no where near a "post-racial" era.

George Rebane

JesusB 1245pm - Don't know what is a "black raised truck" or the significance you put on "four black baby doll heads". But I take it from your answer that the country will remain under your racist label until you decide to remove it. And that is the way most of us in the country have understood the situation to be for several decades now.


"OK, sorry. My bad Greg. I'm assuming you're disagreeing with my assessment and not my actual spectral analysis methodology."

Looks like George removed a comment of mine regarding your "apology". What a shame.

Perhaps this will substitute... would you muse about the orientation of an older married colleague during your coffee break at work? What is IBM's policy about such things?

Would they care that you thought it was funny when you heard a comedian do it on TV?


"Police say around 8 p.m. on Sunday Moffitt called 911 telling them she had been attacked and burned by three men in white hoodies. They say she was unable to identify her attackers or their race."


Jesus Betterman

Greg the Fair Witness goes along with the idea of Black, Asian, or Hispanic KKK members. Oh the brilliance of a private college education!


Keach, it isn't hard to spell KKK. Anyone can do it.

Jesus Betterman

Even more brilliance from Harvey Mudd's finest engineer!

George, so soon you forget: http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2011/06/local-leftwingnuts-and-racism.html

Jesus Betterman

I suppose maybe Greg thinks these were secret Obama operatives, looking to cast Romney and the like in a bad light, by burning one of their own? Greg, you're on your way to becoming a caricature of your own caricatire.

Jesus Betterman

How so? By putting a burning tire around your own logic.


I'm just doing what the rational journalists are doing in Winnsboro, not embellish what is known with what Doug Keachie has already concluded.

Jesus Betterman

If it walks like KKK and scribbles like KKK is most likely is KKK, official or self anointed, it matters not, when you are the burn victim.

George Rebane

JesusB 132pm - read the link; what did I forget?

Jesus Betterman

A complete description of the truck, George, that's what you missed.

Ryan Mount

I have no idea what Doug's point is, for the record. I wish he'd just come out and say it, whatever it is. That we're a racist culture? Really? Since when is that news? Anyhow...

> would you muse about the orientation of an older married colleague during your coffee break at work?

First off, rust never sleeps. So we work 24/7 making sure everyone can get their flu vaccines, office supplies and roasted chickens, among other things. Coffee breaks are for hourly types with pensions.

But generally yes. I did it very early this morning, I suppose, when I accused a male colleague of looking good in a red dress from one of our test catalogs. I asked him if his wife knew. He said yes. (does that count?) In fact, I discuss only three things with people I work with: politics, religion, sexual orientation and good math skills.

However, I apologize for--I'm not even sure what I'm apologizing for--calling you a 6 and then an 8. You can be a 10. I will stick to my 7 for reasons I listed above.

> What is IBM's policy about such things?/Would they care that you thought it was funny when you heard a comedian do it on TV?

For Betterman's sake. Is this an training session? Damn it, I knew it. I'm sure some HR person would raise an eyebrow (but then again they do that with everything), but generally most people understand the humor. But there's always those types who are humorless pains in the asses, you know what I mean?

But I'm sure there's someone around who would be happy to explain it to you in some official capacity. I'd be happy to forward you his/her information if I can find it. Be prepared to take a survey via Lotus Notes.

Jesus Betterman

Lotus pray, soon I'll be back in my cups (image to follow) Now the following explains a lot about our Number 10 fellow, who hails from here, as well as the state of Neo-Nazism and the KKK being alive and well:


George Rebane

JesusB 322pm - Don't know whether your 301pm was meant to be humorous; there was "no complete description" of a truck that could be attributed as you have done.

And your link is quite explosive, even considering the source. I wonder why no district or federal attorney has pursued these 'charges', given especially that Eric Holder is Attorney General.

I also note that the propagandist author tries to confuse the reader with his continued use of "anti-immigrant" when he refers to people who are against illegal entry into the country. Immigration, as I have attempted to educate, is a formal and open two-party process. Illegal entry is a criminal one-party activity.


Ryan, it isn't the number so much as the fact that you'd try to make a joke about it at all. You aren't my friend and I really don't feel a need to have that status change, so the familiarity you felt license to assume was totally inappropriate.

I wasn't a part of the thread, so why did you feel a need to make the joke if not to just 'take me down a notch'?

Ryan Mount

Look, I'm sorry Greg.

The intention was not to take anyone, including you, down a notch. Just plain-old locker room humor as a dangling postscript on my request that we try not to think of everything in such binary and absolute ways. Also, it was an attempt to get everyone to lighten up a bit before we run into each other at SPD. There was no presumption of anything, other than hopefully a couple of chuckles.


Well, golly, no chuckles Ryan, and this isn't a locker room.

And by the way, your "So we work 24/7 making sure everyone can get their flu vaccines, office supplies and roasted chickens, among other things. Coffee breaks are for hourly types with pensions" is also a not so subtle dig that is uncalled for. Even down in the basement lab at 2AM trying to reproduce a bug in a router apparently plaguing a Czech service provider, we'd take a coffee break to clear our heads. No hourly types, no pensions.

You just can't help it, can you?

Ryan, what is it that you actually do?


Take it from a professional humorist, Ryan, any attempt at jocularity will be lost on those who have an ax to grind in this election. There's blood in the water and the sharks are cross-eyed with hunger for power and control. As I've pointed out on occasion, election day and Halloween have much in common. Partisans' idea of humor right now equates to a slasher movie with the opposition candidate as the victim who stupidly wanders away from the group to be picked off by some crazy dude in a hockey mask.In this atmosphere, Hannibal Lector could get elected.


Earl, there was no election year politics involved when Ryan brought out his "joke". I also hadn't made any posts in the thread when he thought it would be fun to amuse himself at my expense.


Now the Ridge rats have something to do. Keeping another mine from reopening.
Maybe those people from down Greenhorn Creek way that were in favor of the Blue Lead mine going on line should return the favor when the ridge rats stuck their nose into a mine that had no impact on them what so ever.
Here we go again with the well issue. There were dry wells up there long before the mine was working the first time around.

common sense

Keachie = distraction from [insert anything here]


"I suppose maybe Greg thinks these were secret Obama operatives, looking to cast Romney and the like in a bad light, by burning one of their own? Greg, you're on your way to becoming a caricature of your own caricatire [sic]"

The latest news... "Authorities say the woman who told police she had been attacked and set on fire in a Winnsboro city park made it all up."


The family apparently has accepted this conclusion.

Keach, once again, you were way off base.

Jesus Betterman

Well my goodness, I knew it all along. Obviously she's a victim of, Toast Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Walt apparently missed the fact that Siskon, the former owners of the mine to be, wound up paying for Grizzly Hill's bottled water all these years since. Dirt Movers are just plain smarter than judges and engineers when it comes to wells.

Jesus Betterman

One man's locker room is another man's serious symposium on matters of utmost gravity and importance in the world, and yet a third man's Saloon of Knowledge and Curmudgeonly Camaraderie.

George Rebane

JesusB 1028pm - Doug, I for one am having a hard time following your comments, let alone taking you seriously. Are you OK?


Keach, the woman who suffered the burns needs help, and her family and her community will be the ones to give it to her, if she survives her injury.

You need help too.

Jesus Betterman

I'm fine, you both seem to be lacking in a good sense of the Theater of the Absurd.



Keach, you were dipping your hands in her blood when you thought Ms. Moffitt had handed you an election issue, then joke about " Toast Traumatic Stress Disorder" and an appeal to the Theater of the Absurd when that disappears.

Sorry, no. You're just a sick SOB (I'd put my money on sociopathy or narcissism) who will fling any crap into the fan that might stick long enough after landing to cover the time it takes to grab another handful.

Jesus Betterman

You sure are obsessed with grabbing and flinging poo. It's one of your most used metaphors. If I were Iranian, you'd probably have me trying to extract weapons grade ore from it in a centrifuge.


Keach, having no shame puts you more in the sociopath category.

"Toast Traumatic Stress Disorder" is one of the uglier rhetorical pivots you could have come up with.

Billy T

Holy Moses!!!!!!, Douglas Jesus Keachie Kenworth Butterbutt. What the heck are you thinking?? The girl set fire to herself. Like that girl that claimed the Duke Lacrosse players raped her, or that girl who claimed a bunch of white dudes raped her in Central Park which resulted in egg on Reverend Al's and Jesse Jackson's and ALL your fellow ambulance chasers' face.

Are you taking your meds? You were so obsessed with the stand your ground case down South you couldn't help yourself. You were so consumed with us Righties cause we would not take your bait and engage in speculation. We said wait til the facts come out. A reasonable logical position. You, however, wigged out.

What is it with you libbies and your white guilt? Blame whitey first. You have gone from strange to off the rails. Your thought process could make a freight train take a dirt road. Its all Bush's fault. No wonder teachers are losing the public's respect.

If Obama was a whitey instead of half white, you would say he sucks, is lame, is in over his head, and lacks any stewardship abilities. All talk and no substance. But, cause he has some Africian blood in his veins, you libbies think he can command the waves to be still and he walks on water. Whities=Bad, lying psycho black girl=good. You are a work of art. You ain't all bad or always wrong, Ken, but you gotta get your head screwed on right.

Jesus Betterman

So that explains why Repubbys are all over Obama for the right explanation instanter the first time on the death of the Ambassador?

Jesus Betterman

I trusted what the LE official told the CBS affiliated station and now you're all upset. What did you expect me to do, call the sheriff and the news media liars?

George Rebane

JesusB 918pm - No Doug, it was your gleeful rush to judgment with the KKK embellishments, etc that has been and continues to be a typical albeit desperate attempt by the Left to show that there is some par level of attacks, violations, indignities, ... by the Right against the Left and humanity in general, when that is not the case.

The rightwingers have had their own nutcases, but the ratio of those weighs overwhelmingly on the Left. Gregory's 103pm gives a hint of what you could have reported.

Jesus Betterman

So George, how come you expect me to know what happened back there, and expect the Obama administration to know what happens 5,000 miles away, instanter? I went with the available data from authoritative sources. You went with your hunches alone, and got lucky on calling Benghazi correctly, but you had no more info than I did, and yet you stated with certainty that it was a terrorist attack. Waht if it had all turned out to be a false death report? What would you say then. You sure as heck weren't calling for restraint in making your near instantaneous assessment, from your living room, 8,000 miles away.

Grge for his part is such an authority on credentialing that he claimed over at RLCrabb's that you could no longer teach computer science with my background. Tell me again, Greg, where is the computer science credential? Where is the test? Try here for starters, and it is not under math and it is not under Career & Technical Education: http://www.cset.nesinc.com/CS_SMR_opener.asp

George Rebane

JesusB 1020pm - My 14sep12 KVMR commentary calling the attack correctly was based on reliable reports that had already emerged from the 11sep12 events in Benghazi. At that time the entire world knew it was a terrorist attack and NOT a spontaneous demonstration against a video. Only the US administration was building its formidable cover-up of its ineptness (or criminality?) which continues to this day.

You, on the other hand, immediately leapt at a local police/media report of another highly suspicious claim by yet another young black woman about being the victim of white gang rape that quickly became unraveled.

Luck had nothing to do with the assessment that the Benghazi attack was organized terrorism. You don't have to be trained in combat arms (although it helps, and I was) to know that the use of machine guns, RPGs, and night mortar barrages are not in the toolkits of spontaneous civilian demonstrators. But the administration did (does) think that we are stupid enough to swallow their lies. I'm not sure that any of this is accessible to you.

Jesus Betterman

" You don't have to be trained in combat arms (although it helps, and I was) to know that the use of machine guns, RPGs, and night mortar barrages are not in the toolkits of spontaneous civilian demonstrators."

see Syria and Ruanda, even a 10 year old can pickup and fire an automatic weapon, and Libya has plenty of all you mentioned freely floating at this point in time. Gadaffy the Duck was much better armed than Elmer Fudd, and the locals grabbed all they could and buried it I'm sure.

You seem to have Romnesia about the trending of the video and the demonstrations about it elsewhere at that point in time. It was front page news everywhere, print and magnetic/laser binary. Given the distance, knowing the facts instanter was no more doable for you than for me, esecially with the sheriff giving unqualified credence to her story in the media.

Jesus Betterman

BTW, I just established a Gravatar for Jesus, how do I get it to show here?

Jesus Betterman

Also BTW, didn't you make your assertions way sooner than the over one month from the event in your KVMR report? And note the following rebuttal of FOX's timeline:


George Rebane

JesusB 1024am - '... and never the twain shall meet.' Even though coordinated use of AK-47s and RPGs would have been sufficient evidence. The additional coordinated use of radio communications and, more importantly, night registration of mortar fires put the bow on pre-planned terrorist attack. Sadly, we have exhausted pursuit of mutual understanding on yet another matter.

Sorry for the typo on my 805am, it should have said '14sep12', three days after the attack. I have corrected it. The link to the post is

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