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29 January 2013

Comments

JesusBetterman

BTW George, I notice that the Captchas were not on when I first started logging in from the desktop as JB, for the first couple of days. They are on now incessantly. I will be very tempted to do the experiment of yet another unknown sock from a totally different machine and IP, and see if they are off there. As you may have gathered, they slow me down by all of 20 seconds at best, missing only about 1 in 20 when I get sloppy.

JesusBetterman

And apparently if the machine merely sleeps,and one of Firefox's windows is still open to a thread, it take a while for Wordpad press whatever they call themselves to realize it, but the link to the avatar goes away. I didn't do that on purpose. I like my doggie, just ike I like the battleship when playing monopoly, old fossil that I am.

JesusBetterman

Ben, I've talked about the ills of society a lot, and once again insist we need a habital and improvable from "bottom," the likes of which I've roughly outlined here:

http://farstars.blogspot.com/2012/12/refined-version-keeping-guns-away-from.html

In the War on Poverty, sending the troops out with no shelter half, food, communications, health care, or entrenching tool, is unforgivable, and means we'll never win.

JesusBetterman

Hmmmm, icon avatar back, and no captchas? Okie dokie.

Brad Croul

The term "gun control" is as much of a buzz word (phrase) as is "assault weapon".

We should define civilian "assault" weapons as center fire rifles with magazines that are detachable and extend beyond the receiver. That would seem to cover most "black guns" and not include classic hunting rifles. Go back to the days of rifles with magazines contained within the receiver, or like shotguns, in a tube under the barrel, and limit the capacity to 3-5 rounds.

Black guns are basically a big boy noisemaker (think Harley with drag pipes-except that lead still comes out the exhaust pipe). Black guns are not needed in our modern 1st world society, as opposed to some places in the Mid East and Africa where, if you have a black gun, it is the full auto version... and there might actually be somebody out to get you, as opposed to imagined government stormtroopers.
But, as with Harleys, black guns are sort of a nostalgia item. Just as there are road bikes that do a better job than a bad ass Harley, some folks just like bad ass looking guns even though there are better rifles out there.

For the wannabe militiamen: if it really came down to doing battle with a rogue government - every kiosk south of the border would be bristling with AK-47s and smugglers would gladly ship real assault rifles in with their drugs - just as has been done for years in every hot spot on the planet.
Bottom line - it really doesn't matter if black guns are illegal - so let's just outlaw them and make the libs happy.

Gregory

George, 8:52AM,

One of the more staid VP's I worked for in the past, a very accomplished engineer, was a soft spoken fellow you would never want to play poker against for anything more than penny-ante. He referred to one fellow engineering manager who was as you mention, forgetting that he'd already been countered on that point but, after changing a completely immaterial point, would decide that the question was opened anew. He would say, working with that guy is like trying to put a large octopus in a small bucket. No matter how many times you put it in there, it'd decide to get back out.

Gregory

Ben, assuming we all want Felons and the mentally unstable to not get ahold of firearms, do you think it might makes sense to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law anyone who commits perjury filling out the gun purchase questionnaire?

It's my understanding the Feds have denied something like 2 million gun purchases, but virtually none of the people trying to buy have been tried and convicted for those felonies. Think that might be a good place to start?

Those are people that virtually everyone agrees need to be stopped from getting guns, and here they've shown they have the chutzpah to lie to see if they can get away with it.

JesusBetterman

As one socked tentacle said to the other, muppett strawman style, "So Greg said, 'we already have more than enough data gathering points.'"

Ben Emery

Greg,
You took a tiny step of moving out of the spoon fed talking points. I am talking about health care, which includes mental health. I am talking about the over prescriptions on ssri's that can either be a god send or promote such apathy we are having people that cannot regulate their actions on how it would affect others. I am talking about society that is taught we are superior to the rest of the world populations through the idea of American exceptionalism and American hegemony, which justifies why the US has 900 military bases in over 130 countries. Also the fact the American Transnational Corporations are running around the planet exploiting third world labor and as US consumers we ignore the deplorable conditions those who produce the goods we purchase. That we only talk about legality within US law when we talk about US military force. I am talking about a government that is used to push a for profit materialistic anti spiritual society where the value of being connected to something larger is absent.

To the last point; the question that was asked the Sunday after the Sandy Hook tragedy at Glide service was did Adam Lanza have a connection to any group that promoted love, understanding, compassion, and the sense of belonging to something larger than himself? To my understanding Adam Lanza had a form of Autism. Was Lanza ostracized and isolated because he was different. There are many questions like this that should be asked in every case but we don't generally hear them because they might offend a big donor industryial complex or company.

Glide Church
http://www.glide.org/

SSRI's Violence
http://evergreenedigest.org/batman-shooter-and-his-psyche-drugs

Gregory

Brad C 1:00PM suggests all should agree to a ban of centerfire semiautomatic rifles that accept removable magazines because, if circumstances change and order breaks down, Mexican drug cartels will be able to smuggle in all the *real* assault rifles we could possibly want.

Brad, what do you think the prices of those would be in that case, and how dangerous would it be to try to get one?

Brad, I suspect that the average owner of, say, an old Ruger Mini-14 in .223 (not an "assault weapon" under existing California or DiFi's fantasy law, though it does work like one) and an assortment of magazines from 5 to 40 round capacity from the days when they were over the counter in California would say, no, I'll keep what I have.

Brad, if the end ever comes and you end up being a middleman for those Mexican cartels, perhaps George would allow you to post them for sale here? There might be some folks interested.


Ben, you're still drinking the koolaide.

Gregory

"We should define civilian "assault" weapons as center fire rifles with magazines that are detachable and extend beyond the receiver. That would seem to cover most "black guns" and not include classic hunting rifles. Go back to the days of rifles with magazines contained within the receiver, or like shotguns, in a tube under the barrel, and limit the capacity to 3-5 rounds."

Here's a 15 shot repeating rifle that seems to violate your new law. Has been legal for civilians for 140 years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Winchester_Model_1873_Short_Rifle_1495.jpg

Why would *anyone* need 15 shots?

George Rebane

BenE 154pm - to revisit your, apparently crisp with unassailable logic, talking points, you describe a pretty horrific government that is a worldwide bully with no sense of social justice whatsoever - 'rapacious' comes to mind as a summary descriptive. And within its own borders you want such a government to be the only one with guns?!

George Rebane

JesusB 1112am - Don't know what changes you're referring to. I haven't changed any thing on RR commenting for months. My checked setting for 'Unauthenticated Commenters' is 'Require readers to enter a randomly generated verification code.' That has kept spam commenters to a tolerable minimum. As an authenticated commenter, you should never encounter a Captcha.

Brad Croul

Greg, I am not trying to draft legislation, just make some points about how I think we could up with a definition. You are right though, I should have specified semi-auto. I should also add that I have not reviewed any of the propposed legislation being bandied around lately. My ideas were just cooked up on the fly based on my personal views. My views might sound like DiFi's, or someone else's - or not.
The Mini -14 is offered in 5-round models that would be acceptable by my definition, and also 20-round mag versions which would not be available for sale to the domestic market.
The Winchester 1873 is a lever action, so would be exempt.
Regarding black market, black guns, you might not have to even worry about prices in the event of Civil War II. Countries that want to see the US fail would supply you and your militiamen with your firepower if you bought into, or gave lip service to, their flavor of hegemonic idealism.

Ben Emery

Brad,
Gun descriptions or categories are so convoluted that nobody knows what the other is talking about, so to have specific language is just fodder for being aggressively attacked.

Ben Emery

OK George,
You just exemplified the very difference between the two of us. I believe the government is supposed to be our representatives and you believe it as a other that will come down on us. It is our duty to challenge such a government, which I do on a daily basis. It is up to us as an electorate to dictate to our government(which is supposed to be us) what privileges we will allow them to have and execute not the other way around. At the moment they represent a very small minority and that is the fault of the average voter not being engaged and allowing their point of views be handed to them without question. This is why I am always calling out partisan ship as apologist or blindness.

Let me ask you George; do you like the idea of your post or don't you?

I don't and in fact am part of group of people organizing to get drones banned from use in Nevada County. I know your post was about helicopters but you get the idea. I believe in strong local participation in government, you know decentralization on things such as force whether it is through military or militarization of our police.

Gregory

I've not assaulted the senses by embedding JPEGs in other folk's blogs, but this one is worth looking at by the folks who eschew rationality on the subject...

George Rebane

BenE 615pm - It's enticing the way we seem to be very close on so many things. My positions on decentralized government, local authority to do most things, posse comitatus, etc are established (read old), consistent, and published for all to see. I am definitely opposed to the use of any vestige of our military to perform in-country police duties. I want everyone in our military to have the same awe of our Constitution and our civilian population that I experienced as a combat arms officer in the Army. We were there ready to lay our lives down to protect Americans, and we knew it every moment of the day. To cruise the skies of America under orders to shoot these civilians and not those is unthinkable to me. And to witness the practice of the same raises my neck hairs. I have always taken comfort that it would be our military that would be our savior from a government gone rogue. Have I said anything offensive to anyone?

JesusBetterman

Speaking of drones, there was an exceptionally large winged aircraft, single engine, high wing, wandering around at very low altitudes near NSJ today, just caught a glimpse after neighbor phoned me, white wings, possibly blue underbelly. I would assume it was doing "before" pictures.

Paul Emery

George

Would the National Guard firing on unarmed students at Kent State qualify as the military performing police duties?

"I am definitely opposed to the use of any vestige of our military to perform in-country police duties."

Gregory

"The Mini -14 is offered in 5-round models that would be acceptable by my definition, and also 20-round mag versions which would not be available for sale to the domestic market."

Sorry, but every Mini-14 accepts any size magazine. You can buy one supplied with a 5 round mag and slip in that grandfathered 40 round mag you bought in California before the ban.

George Rebane

PaulE 447pm - good question covering the fuzzy area. Since the National Guard is a state-formed and commissioned militia, I would give them a pass if their orders to deploy were from the state's governor and not the feds. Perhaps I'm missing something important, what are your thoughts?

JesusBetterman

A burglar's tools are subject to loose definitions. Even a home made forward grip can turn a semiauto pistol into a firehose for bullets. Assualt definitions should be loosely defined too. However as soon as one psycho turns some model of weapon into such a firehose, all such weapons should be subjected to mandatory insurance policies. Maybe that might be enough incentive to return the NRA to Wayne LaPierrie's 1999 stand in favor of universal gun registration, as seen in the clips run on Jon Stewart.

http://aattp.org/jon-stewart-to-nra-chief-lets-only-pass-laws-criminals-will-immediately-obey-video/

Paul Emery

The fuzzy areas are the most interesting because that's where the truth usually lies. In this case the National Guard responded to an emotional demonstration against the secret and illegal expansion of the war into Cambodia-no war powers excuse here. . In my view it was a legitimate and necessary reaction against a rogue government action. Do you believe the students had the right to bear and use arms in self defense in that situation?

Ben Emery

George,
I am glad to hear you are so opposed to the idea of helicopters. As I have said to you many times I bet you and I are much closer than we are apart on many if not issues. What I find when I am talking with my relatives who are very staunch republicans once we can get past the partisan propaganda we have a tendency to agree on much more than we disagree.

I think where we differ is you seem to think the citizens should be afraid of the government and I think the citizens should control the government. I also am a strong believer in decentralization on most issues except those that are dealing with the commons/ infrastructure. Even in those cases I think it should be controlled at the most local level it can be. That is when our government is supposed to represent the interests of the people because as individuals we could not afford that type of infrastructure but as a group we can.

Ben Emery

As usual I make many typo's but this time read back and saw them immediately. I am glad to see you are so opposed to the helicopters firing down or scanning the citizenry.

We are much closer than we are apart on many issues if not most issues.

Steve Frisch

Here's some good news for all the faithful readers of Rebane's Ruminations, Art Bell is coming back on the radio....

http://www.theawl.com/2013/01/is-art-bell-coming-back-to-live-radio

Gregory

5:51 Frisch

Steve, why are you so drawn to flinging unrelated crap in the fan?

The only two Art Bell fans I know are progressive truthers who believe in UFOs and that George Bush masterminded the 9/11 attacks. If I'm listening to the radio in the evening and Bell or Nori come on, that's my cue to switch to NPR.

Gregory

Paul, the Guard was called to Kent State by the Governor, not the Feds.

George Rebane

PaulE 532pm - I believe that a person has the obligation/duty to defend himself whenever someone is trying to kill him. That said, the question reverts to what such a person did in the first place to cause someone to want to kill him. The answer can range anywhere from 'Nothing' to 'First attacking the person who is trying to kill him.' What part do you want to discuss?

Gregory

Practice makes perfect

Steve Frisch

Nice to know you are a fan Greg.

Ben Emery

Ludlow Massacre by Woody Guthrie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDd64suDz1A

National Guard firing on innocent civilians who were trying to have a say in their work conditions. Whether it is intentional or not those who oppose labor unions and worker rights do not know the history of workers across the planet and what it would mean to let the market regulate itself. A union organizer was killed in 1913, which sent the workers over the top so they went on strike for better working conditions, better wages, and union recognition.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/rockefellers-ludlow/

"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half" Jay Gould
Great Southwest Railroad Strike 1886
http://cas.umkc.edu/labor-ed/history6.htm

Walmart treatment of workers
http://www.austincc.edu/chayman/third-paper.htm

The three examples are in three different centuries and the tactics and conditions are very similar. Those who recognize worker rights and the their struggles see these helicopters, drones, Patriot Act, FISA Act, Right To Work laws and so on in a much different light.

Ben Emery

Paul,
I think it was recently they have found audio of a person ordering them to fire on the unarmed crowd. Here is the big shocker the oppressive Obama justice department isn't going to look at the new evidence. Who ever found and presented the evidence better watch out because the Obama DOJ will be coming after them in full force.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/27/us/kent-state-shootings-archive-audio/index.html

Gregory

Frisch, 8:09PM

Got it. Your high paid non-profit CEO spidey sense tells you when to make something up to smear someone you don't like.

Last we heard from you, your plan was to do a tour to promote DiFi's new gun ban. Any news to report?

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