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20 April 2013

Comments

Martin

George, I couldn't help but compare a community during the 1880's with 2013 Boston and come to one conclusion: today's communities are filled with sheep waiting the arrival of the sheepdog they've chained to his dog house. Totally incapable of caring for their own security, oblivious to the results of their actions. And, the hours of video footage showing military grade squads of law enforcement going house to house, block by block in Watertown was stunning as well as quite scary at the time. These days it seems people have no knowledge of Habeas Corpus, Posse Comitatus, the 4th Amendment, let alone acts of Marshal law even exist.

George Rebane

Martin 518pm - you have a point Martin. While the media are singing hosannas to the brave people of Boston, a comparison with how Israelis behave after such an act would be more than revealing.

Bill Tozer

Lessons From Fallen Civilizations (subtitled Can A Bankrupt America Survive the Current Islamic Threat?) by Larry Kelley is a good read. Not so much as what happened, but WHY things happened in historical context. He argues, for example, that without the Polish army helping out in a battle for Constantine back then, we (Western Civilization)would all be speaking Arabic and studying Islamic Law in all our grade schools today.

He sites many historical turning points, but Islam and its goals have never changed.

Concerning immigrants understanding the culture in their new adopted homeland here, I caught a quick sound bit on the news that said it all. The bomber in custody said "I don't understand Americans." He never will with his Islamic jihad leanings. We are the antithesis to everything comprising his believe system.

Russ Steele


The Diplomad has some thoughts on the Boston terror fall out.

I find myself in agreement with his views on Islam. They have yet to demonstrate they are a religion of peace.

“ . . . When are we going to learn that we get nothing good by allowing thousands upon thousands of Muslim immigrants into the US, immigrants imbued with a political ideology that espouses hatred for us? We need to treat Islam today as we treated Communism and Nazism in the past, to wit, as a hostile ideology that advocates the overthrow of our government and destruction of our way of life.. . .

. . . Islam is a deranged way of viewing the world. It detests intellectual inquiry; sees women as no better than cows; and advocates violence, yes, violence. It is not a religion of peace. . . .

If Muslims object to this characterization then THEY must do something about it. Not just the perfunctory statements after these events to the effect that "Islam is about peace." No. The Muslim communities in London, Paris, Madrid, Amsterdam, New York, Boston, Detroit, etc, must stand up and unequivocally denounce the preachers of hate, turn in those who practice it, and make clear that they have no place in those communities. The advocates of terror must be denounced, arrested, jailed, deported, shunned, etc. Until Muslims in the West do that, then we must treat them with suspicion and as potential enemies of the nation just as we did Communists and Nazis.

In Boston we have more evidence that immigrant Muslims are more than willing to kill American without any remorse. Have the leaders of the global Islamic community stepped up and denounce this act of violence against the men, women and children of Boston? Yes, Muslim leaders in Boston and Detroit have distanced themselves from the Marathon bombing in feared reprisals against their communities. Not because is was wrong, but because they feared reprisals.

Else where in the middle-east the “religion of peace” celebrated the slaughter in Boston. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah celebrate Boston terror attack by giving out candies on the street after terror bombs exploded and murdered 3 people and injured 100s in Boston. I have serious doubt that the Islamic leaders in these communities denounced the Boston Bombing. If you know of some, please point the way.

Russ Steele

Most interesting if proven to be true:

The FBI was last night hunting a 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to the Boston marathon bomb brothers.

Police believe Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were specially trained to carry out the devastating attack.

More than 1,000 FBI agents were last night working to track down the cell and arrested a man and two women 60 miles from Boston in the hours before Dzhokhar’s dramatic capture after a bloody shootout on Friday.

A source close to the investigation said: “We have no doubt the brothers were not acting alone. The devices used to detonate the two bombs were highly sophisticated and not the kind of thing people learn from Google.

“They were too advanced. Someone gave the brothers the skills and it is now our job to find out just who they were. Agents think the sleeper cell has up to a dozen members and has been waiting several years for their day to come.”

More HERE: Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844#ixzz2R425U9g5

George Rebane

re RussS 749pm - Am glad to see Diplomad climbing aboard. When some years back RR identified the Islamic communities behaving like colonists wherever they settled, and put the onus on their community leaderships to denounce the atrocities of their ragheads, I received a different admonition from our local progressives. One of them even wanted me to go see the Muslim leaders in Yuba City to see how peaceful they were. My stated hope was that in these times it was they who needed to come out into our communities, and make the case that they weren't playing both sides toward the middle.

re BillT's 716pm - am not familiar with the "battle for Constantine" and the Polish influence there. But have cited the 1683 Battle of Vienna many times that turned the tide of the Islamic invasion of Europe. That "large-scale battle was won by Polish-Austrian-German forces led by King of Poland John III Sobieski against the Ottoman Empire army commanded by Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha." The link I give in my post here features the famous painting of that momentous turn of history.

George Rebane

RussS 825pm - that confirms what was reported all afternoon today that these guys were not alone and the explosive devices used were too sophisticated in their design and performance to have been just worked up by a couple of guys in a garage. I cite my speculation from last Tuesday's comment stream under the post 'On the inanities ...'.

So maybe I should practice what I preached and SPECULATE about what is being reported.

From what I learned in the Army, I judge the IED to have had a sophisticated design and expert emplacement. The first hypothesis is based on the shape of the blast front - it was narrow in the vertical direction and broad horizontally. The second hypothesis is based on the casualties and the type/location of wounds. The IED was placed so that its explosive force was almost entirely concentrated at below normal human height (i.e. in the so-called horizon plane). The blast and shrapnel tore off and mangled mostly legs. If more of it had been directed at adult torso height, then more people would have been killed (witness the little 8-year-old).

Given that the blast front was so well shaped, the explosive was most likely of a manufactured type like the 'C explosives' which could be molded into the desired form and selectively surrounded with shrapnel. In short, it probably was not a mix of separately bought chemicals concocted in a garage. (This should have already been confirmed through analysis of the explosion's chemical residue.)

Given that such expertise was required and in evidence, the terrorist(s) were trained by someone, and not brought to that level of skill by just perusing the web. This implies that an organization is behind this bombing.

Using what the Rev Bayes taught, and with the overwhelming prior probabilities pointing to militant Islam, one of their organizations would today rank highest in the list of suspects. Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all. Given the kind of reportage he is known for, such a conclusion is not at all surprising.

End of SPECULATION.

Posted by: George Rebane | 16 April 2013 at 09:28 AM

Russ Steele

George@08:46

As we watched the news I kept telling Ellen that these two looked more like delivery boys to me, rather than your hard core terrorist. It was just an impression and the more I learned about them the more they looked like not very bright delivery boys to me.

Ben Emery

You might find it interesting
http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2013/04/paranoia-the-destroyer.html

George Rebane

RussS 937pm - I think you're right; they used to be called 'bag men' in another criminal trade. The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs "requires significant and sustained training."

Gregory

"The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs "requires significant and sustained training.""

I googled your quote attributed to the FBI, "requires significant and sustained training" and didn't get a hit on any FBI statement. Of the seven hits, only one mentioned the Boston bombing and that was a link to your blog.

Paul Emery

George

It's helpful to include your source for such a statement as

"The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs "requires significant and sustained training."

I was just a few days ago that you followed Russ's lead on the Cris Matthews allegation that awarded you with egg on your face so accept the challenge and support your allegation.

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane. Thank you for your correction. I was grossly wrong when spouting the "battle at Constantine". Got confused. I offer no excuses for this error and missed the barn by a mile. I will try to be more accurate and carefully read what I write before posting in the future. Sincerelky, Bull Dozer

George Rebane

Gregory 1239am, PaulE 151am - Good points. My source for the quote was copied directly from a Fox News correspondent reporting from Boston on the wrap up of what was said to that time. Apparently the statement came from an FBI official talking in turn into a bevy of mikes with other officials. The actual statement was not shown, but the report of the quote is accurate as witnessed by Jo Ann and me. I immediately wrote it down on my little yellow pad. Have no idea whether they archive these broadcasts. Hope that helps.

BillT 636am - Not a problem Mr Tozer, this is a discussion forum and not a trial record. Look at my being raked over the coals and being fed egg on my face for the ready acceptance of what was alleged to Chris Matthews. Although, after viewing the videos of that sumbich, I'll take the egg - his sentiments were close enough for government work. ;-)

Todd Juvinall

It was actually the Italina Mafia that started the "multicultural" crap if I recall correctly. Eventually the hit men killed Gallo. His legacy lives on.

Ben Emery

Does this heavy militarization of our police worry any of you guys?

https://www.google.com/search?q=militarized+police+images&client=firefox-a&hs=hxx&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wAp0UcvuI8XmiwK0_IHoAQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1276&bih=673

http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2013/04/paranoia-the-destroyer.html
"Boston's declaration of near martial law might seem protective and just playing it safe - what Michael Cohen of the Century Foundation called "cover your ass business by public officials" - but doesn't it also prescribe a precedent? I was cheered at the Obama Adminsitration's decision to process the junior Tsarnaev in criminal court and not whisk him off to military detention. But it's also troubling that authorities invoked the "public safety exception," which allows investigators to question a suspect without reading his Miranda warnings against self incrimination and the right to counsel. I often disagree with Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian on some of the nuances of civil liberties, but he was exactly right in his latest column when he noted that this decision is one in a long line of other cases that have gradually eroded the basic rights of criminal suspects to the extent that it makes the invokation of such an extraordinary civil liberties exemption so mundane a choice."

Bill Tozer

Ben, we agree on something and so does history reaffirm our agreement. That agreement is once government takes rights away, they never give them back. The only exception to this rule that comes to mind is probably ending Prohibition. Even that might be a stretch as booze may not be a right but a privilege. Once gone, rights are gone forever. Rights are being eroded at an increasing pace over the last few decades. Look what the TSA is doing as a small example. Look what Homeland Security is doing to American citizens.

We have the right to bear arms in the 2nd Amendment to ensure the liberties and rights of the 1st Amendment. These so-called rights supersede government. That is why after the 1st Amendment comes the second. They are dependent upon each other.

George Rebane

BenE 1210pm - It worries me. If the terrorist is considered to be a garden variety US criminal, then he should have his Miranda rights read. If he's an enemy combatant or something equivalent(even though an American citizen), then Miranda doesn't apply in my book. Let's see what his declared status is.

Gregory

You always have Miranda rights whether or not you have been "Mirandized". The issue with the bomber is that they haven't actually told him he has those rights.

The rights existed before the Miranda decision; they are to be found in the Bill of Rights. Even if a police officer makes a traffic stop and asks if you've had a drink, you have the right not to remain silent because anything you say could be used against you in a court of law.

Regarding an earlier ferfuffle, George, it sounds like your error regarding that FBI "quote" was merely the attribution. It wasn't the FBI, it was a newsreader's summation of an FBI statement. Fair enough. I'm sure on the record statements will eventually follow when they have more than hunches.

BTW those cool light armored trucks are made in Massachussets.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenco_BearCat
Every SWAT team will want a few, and even little Nevada County has something similar that has been shown off at the County Fair in the past.

Hell, even Joe Friday used a tank! I always liked the "Have a Nice Day" sign on the end of the gun barrel.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-FIFUubYmthutb/dragnet_1987_friday_is_back_in_the_tank/

Thank God, It's Friday!

Gregory

One too many negatives in at least one sentence in my last post...

Paul Emery

Gregory, George

It's interesting how "news" stories ferment on the internet. The Mirror, basically an internet gossip tabloid with some news writes that "The FBI was last night hunting a 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to the Boston marathon bomb brothers. Here's the way they put it. No credible news source would make this assumption without at least three sources. They attribute it to just one. The story may well be true but this to me is irresponsible journalism from a source that specializes in celebrity gossip.

Once something like this is printed then it takes off like wildfire and the sparks made it to this blog. Is the FBI investigating as to whether there are "sleeper cells" behind this. Duh I hope so. That's a whole different question than the one spun by the Mirror. If we choose to discuss these matters intelligently we need to set high standards as to where we our information. This in my view does not qualify as a reasonable source.

Here's the Mirror headline and part of the story. It's already third page. The current headline in the Mirror is about soccer players biting each other.


Police believe Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were specially trained to carry out the devastating attack.

More than 1,000 FBI operatives were last night working to track down the cell and arrested a man and two women 60 miles from Boston in the hours before Dzhokhar’s dramatic capture after a bloody shootout on Friday.

A source close to the investigation said: “We have no doubt the brothers were not acting alone. The devices used to detonate the two bombs were highly sophisticated and not the kind of thing people learn from Google.........

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

Paul Emery

Here's the latest headline report from the Daily Mirror on the Liverpool Chomper. Hard hitting journalism here.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/

Paul Emery


Militarization of the police? This should be nothing new to Nevada County Residents

Lets recall Sept 2009 when 200 law enforcement officers from over 10 federal, State and Local descended onto North San Juan for a Marijuana Cultivation bust. There were Sheriffs officers from Nevada, Yuba, Sierra, Placer and Butte Counties. There was the FBI, the DEA, the Highway Patrol, the IRS as well as state cops from the Attorney Generals office, game wardens, District Attornies and Nevada City cops. It was a real Festival costing untold dollars and filling up our hotels and restaurants with cops from near and far for a couple of days. Good for local business I guess.

They came by Air (helicopters) on foot, on motorcycles and assorted SUV's vans trucks, busses and patrol vehicles. A good friend of mine,a mother with four children was handcuffed to a tree for 6 hours before arrested-the charges were dropped two weeks later They made 12 arrests. Charles Hilkey was eventually sentenced to four years in a Federal pen. As far as I know the charges against the others were dropped.

Not a peep from all the freedom loving conservatives, Libertarians and TP types when this assault happened?

George Rebane

PaulE 651pm - Your continued recounting of this episode makes it sound as if the "freedom loving conservatives, Libertarians and TP types" were responsible for the whole thing. I have never seen this recounting in the public record, so it's fairly certain none of the accused groups ever saw it.

However, the militarization we are talking about is of the local constabulary. In Boston, it's the Boston police. In Nevada County, it's our sheriff's department which by no means can match the equipment of the Boston police. But in any case, let's keep an eye on what Nevada County puts into its armory.

Paul Emery

Not true George, It was big news throughout the region. The Union article is not retrievable but to give you an idea this was the article in Yuba Counties Appeal Democrat. Of course they knew about it. It should have been an outrage but instead....silence.

"Almost 200 law enforcement officers and agents raided a major marijuana growing operation Wednesday, hitting at least 10 locations on the San Juan Ridge in Nevada County..........Law enforcement officers from the Nevada County Sheriff's Narcotics Task Force, DEA, IRS, Mountain and Valley Marijuana Investigation Team, Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, Yolo County Sheriff's Department, Placer County Sheriff's Department, Butte County Sheriff's Department, California Highway Patrol, Grass Valley Police Department, NET-5 (Yuba-Sutter) and El Dorado County Sheriff's Department executed federal search warrants on the 10 locations.

Nearly two dozen people were detained at the various sites and interviewed.

Twelve people were arrested on Badger Hill Road as the raid unfolded, including Charles Hilkey, 55, the alleged grower. Authorities in multiple vehicles, including Yuba-Sutter's Narcotic Enforcement Team, and three helicopters swarmed the Ridge through the morning as the raid continued.

Read more: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/articles/county-86394-sheriff-nevada.html#ixzz2RAV5Tngv


Gregory

Here's some fresher news, Paul:

http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_22439619/california-pot-grower-charles-hilkey-sentenced-four-years

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/02/21/nevada-city-man-pleads-guilty-to-federal-pot-charges/

While I think it should be legal, it seems clear Hilkey was not exactly following the law for medical grows and did his best to launder the profits.

Paul Emery

Gregory

NO doubt Hilkey was violating the law but that's not the point. The law enforcement industry uses the pot laws as a form of harvesting taxpayer dollars. There seems little opposition from those who are the harshest critics of useless government programs and spending. Some conservatives (Tom McClintock) speak out but most are silent and look the other way while billions are spent on the "war on drugs" that funds such Festivals as these.

Lest you forget, the law enforcement industry did everything they could to keep prohibition on the books. It took the 21st Amendment to override opposition and repeal prohibition. It the hookem and bookem (police) industry would have had their way it would still be illegal to have a beer and pizza at the Northridge.

Gregory

Paul, if you go to reason.com and search for "civil forfeiture", you'll find a truckload of articles going back 20 years.

It's been an active issue in libertarian circles for years. That said, Hilkey is not a sympathetic character and you can do better.

Bill Tozer

200 law enforcement dudes as such don't bother me. What Mr. Hinley and others should be scared speechless of is the appearance of the IRS. They really know how make your life miserable and they believe in guilty until proven innocent. Growing pot for illegal profit and not paying your fair share on such profits in what Joe Biden would call unpatriotic. Growers and pushers with tombstones in their eyes are about the only ones that drive around these parts with tens of thousands of dollars of cash on them. Kinda hard to be sympathetic to cash rich tax cheats. There is a very warm place down below reserved for murderers of 8 year olds and tax cheats.

Guess that young Boston Bomber liked his pot very much. Party animal. Not very religious I suspect.

Getting back to the Boston Bombing, since when have the Chechen Separatist Movement targeted anything but the Russians? Boy, them Chechnya types love going into Moscow movie theaters and blasting to smithereens 200-300 people. They like it so much that they do it again and again. Not their style to attack targets in the USA. Guess their movement has be taken over by Isslum Jihady. No wonder Russia is giving us their full cooperation and intelligence.

Putin usually sends his tanks after a theater bombing and cuts them loose on Chechnyan villages, from afar of course. A little bombardment in return. All is fair in love and war. Boy, I guess it is true that the Isslums have declared war on us.

Todd Juvinall

When I was a Supervisor we were asked many times to oppose the "deputizing" (I think that's right) of many different types of departments in California (and Feds). Why we opposed them was two fold. We did not want to give "peace officer" status to the dog catchers because of costs, salaries and pensions, as well as making the people armed and deadly enforcers. Well, we held some off for a few years but like anything government, it hangs around until sympathetic people are in charge and it is now everywhere.

I do not recall a massive swooping down on the pot industry here but it seems to me the PaulE's and his ilk were always claiming the "black helicopters" were simply a conservative paranoia anyway. So which is it?

Gregory

Todd, law enforcement has a great deal going with civil forfeiture laws. If they can make a case drug dealing has been occurring, for example, they can bring a civil case against anything of value they find (a sack of cash, a car, an airplane, a house). Because it's a civil case, the standards of proof are lower than in criminal cases, and the real cool thing is (I think it's still the case despite talk of reforming it) they don't even have to find the owner guilty of a crime before beginning the takings. How great is that, assuming you're the taker and not the loser?

And the money goes not to the general fund of the city, county, state or Feds, it goes into the coffers of the agencies involved in the initial bust, hence the huge numbers of personnel from many different agencies when a big money bust is going down.

Think feeding frenzy. There's money in the water.

Todd Juvinall

I have opposed the laws of taking property under these cases. I don't think it is constitutionally (or morally) right to take the car of a "john" or the property of a drug dealer until the case is adjudicated and a jury finds a person guilty and the fine is levied. This has made me an antagonist to the police.

Paul Emery

Gregory RE: 7:59

George refers to it as "harvesting".

Todd Juvinall

Just read this off of Front Page, and if this doesn't PO you and make you want to change the immigration laws, then you must be a Frisch or a PaulE.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-boston-bomber-was-living-on-welfare/

Ben Emery

Just to drop off another perspective that I have thought every time we have tragedy in the US. We export this type of terror, destruction, and death all over the planet.

Before I post the link with excerpt I have to say I think Todd and I have an agreement with his 22 April 2013 at 08:24 AM position. We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Andrew Napolitano has a good take on this in his book "Lies Government Told You".

Excerpt from article
https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/25-8

Don't Ignore How Others See Us

"What must the “ithers” in the Middle East theatre of the American Empire think of a great city in total lockdown from an attack by primitive explosives when Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis and Yemenis experience far greater casualties and terror attacks several times a week? Including what they believe are terror attacks by U.S. drones, soldiers, aircraft and artillery that have directly killed many thousands of innocent children, women and men in their homes, during funeral processions and wedding parties, or while they’re working in their fields."

George Rebane

And then there's this perspective of the terrorists among us.
http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/terrorist-watch-list-of-tiny-minority-of-extremists-approaching-1-million/

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