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15 April 2013

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I had recorded O Reilly expecting some comment and discussion of the activity in the markets today. Instead they were going with a 'special' show about the bombings even though they didn't have one single bit of news or footage that hadn't already been shown over and over. He should have prefaced his hour with the announcement that they had nothing new to say about the bombings and would break into the regular show only if something newsworthy surfaced. I switched to another recorded show and deleted Monday's edition of Factor. You all know the old news media adage: 'If it bleeds, it leads.'

Russ Steele

George@

Ellen and I heard about the bombing on AM radio when Tom Sullivan had Fox Breaking News Report and switched over to FOX on Dish. I kept telling Ellen that what we were hearing did not add up. They were reporting the bomb blew out the second story window, it must have come from the building, but the people they were carrying away had leg injuries and missing feet. We were being fed crap for news. A second story blast does not tear off limbs of the people on the ground.

I told Ellen that, based on pasted experience, at least half of what you’re hearing would turn out to be wrong in the morning. The bombing had the signature of terrorist attack, coordinated explosions with ball bearing shrapnel, yet the idiot in the WH could not bring himself to utter the words “terrorist attack,” regardless of who the perps would turn out to be. We are lead by an idiot and the result were being reported by clueless journalists and commented on by pundits with air between their ears. Where the hell are the leaders in this county!

We kept switching channels NBC, ABC, and CBS and it was all the same. Finally we got to see the blast on video and came to our own conclusions.

After listing to the President claim his team would find the perps and punish those responsible, I was reminded that he said that about the terrorist in Benghazi, and we are still waiting. Gee this could have been a high school prank! Not! It was well planned attack to get the maximum TV coverage and demonstrate how vulnerable we are, and reveal our lack of strong leaders. I would say it was a stunning success on that level.

earlcrabb

So the babbling press is wrong for jumping the gun, but the White House is wrong for not jumping the gun? As I recall, no one was sure about 9/11 until the second and third planes hit their targets. Oklahoma City was thought to be the result of foreign terrorists until that cop pulled Tim McVey over. Sometimes it's better to get the facts before you go with "the scoop."

George Rebane

earlcrabb 655am - Bob, not sure you got the point of my post.

Ryan Mount

How many hours (even minutes!) do we have to watch this over and over again? It's the template from LA car chases: maybe something horrible will happen.

I've come to the conclusion that we enjoy living in fear. Why else would we stay glued to the TV listening and watching the same horrific events over and over again. Or more bluntly, we have a collective quasi-Stockholm Syndrome across our culture; we're learning to love that which captivates us.

O'Brien: What are your feelings towards Big Brother?

Winston Smith: I hate him.

O'Brien: You must love him. It is not enough to obey him. You must love him.

earlcrabb

Geo 8:20 - I was responding to Russ' comment.

Russ Steele

The left wants to blame the Tea Party for the bombing with out any evidence.

Axelrod: Obama Thinks Boston Bombings Could Be Related to 'Tax Day'

Chris Mathews thinks it was the Tea Party on Tax Day.

And, of course we know that the Tea Party has a long history of planting bombs in public places. Not!

George Rebane

earlcrabb 845am - Apologies. Since I didn't see anyone referenced in your comment, I naturally (foolishly?) thought your comment addressed my post.

George Rebane

So maybe I should practice what I preached and SPECULATE about what is being reported.

From what I learned in the Army, I judge the IED to have had a sophisticated design and expert emplacement. The first hypothesis is based on the shape of the blast front - it was narrow in the vertical direction and broad horizontally. The second hypothesis is based on the casualties and the type/location of wounds. The IED was placed so that its explosive force was almost entirely concentrated at below normal human height (i.e. in the so-called horizon plane). The blast and shrapnel tore off and mangled mostly legs. If more of it had been directed at adult torso height, then more people would have been killed (witness the little 8-year-old).

Given that the blast front was so well shaped, the explosive was most likely of a manufactured type like the 'C explosives' which could be molded into the desired form and selectively surrounded with shrapnel. In short, it probably was not a mix of separately bought chemicals concocted in a garage. (This should have already been confirmed through analysis of the explosion's chemical residue.)

Given that such expertise was required and in evidence, the terrorist(s) were trained by someone, and not brought to that level of skill by just perusing the web. This implies that an organization is behind this bombing.

Using what the Rev Bayes taught, and with the overwhelming prior probabilities pointing to militant Islam, one of their organizations would today rank highest in the list of suspects. Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all. Given the kind of reportage he is known for, such a conclusion is not at all surprising.

End of SPECULATION.

Joe Koyote

No media outlet gets it right at first. There is just not enough information. I was listening to the radio while commuting when the Oklahoma City bombings happened. First report was a gas leak in the basement caused the blast. Once experts got on the scene they determined it was a bomb, but that wasn't for an hour or two. Once that was determined speculation pointed to the obvious terrorists who were , of course, Islamic militants. Wrong! Speculation as to suspects at this point in time is inflammatory and should be avoided, but it makes for good TV and apparently good blogging as well.

Ben Emery

Have no idea but Oklahoma City Bombing seems to keep coming to the forefront of my mind. The same week of Hitlers birthday,"liberal" President, and tax day along with all the media fervor of anti government gone wild to get our guns sentiment on the airwaves.

Does the Turner Diaries ring a bell with anyone?
http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/turner_diaries.asp

George Rebane

JoeK 942am - you may have misunderstood my post; it was not about media accuracy. We all understand how emerging 'facts' are slow to arrive, and very often wrong, especially the early ones. The post is on providing content that was not the hours-long repetition of nothing new; instead permit the speculation, rigorously identified as such, which everyone is doing anyway. It is a notion that is worthy of discussion IMHO.

Joe Koyote

Anytime and every time a special event or tragedy occurs the media drones on for hours repeating itself about every 15 minutes. The 24 hour cable news cycle is the same thing. A lot of it has to do with footage.. no footage no story. As a society, we are driven and controlled by fear. I once did a study of fear in the nightly news. The result is that people see so much violence in the news (if it bleeds it leads) that they feel helpless and out of control over their surroundings. People who are afraid are easier to control and manipulate and more susceptive to tyrannical personalities who promise action.

Gregory

"Have no idea" - Ben


Ben, you should have stopped right there.

Bill Tozer

I turned off the tube after 3 minutes. Bomb went BOOM, then days of talk. I saw what I needed in the first 3 minutes.

I will try a stab at speculation. The bomb was crudely made by someone with an underdeveloped frontal lobe. Childish person, but not very child like. Most likely it was someone from one of those radical lefty organizations judging by the unsophistication of the device. Maybe someone from Earth First! or one of those groups that set afire to car dealerships and new housing developments.

We know their kind. California has a bunch or them. Had to be someone from the Boston area cause you can't throw a ball bearing in Boston without hitting a lefty with an underdeveloped frontal lobe. Probably upset with the competition that declares somebody (not everybody) a winner. Has lefty fingerprints all over this simpleton bomb. Speculation over.

Paul Emery

Please, someone give me the exact quote from Chris Matthews where you derive that he's blaming the Tea Party


" Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all"

George Rebane | 16 April 2013 at 09:28 AM

Jeez

Bill Tozer

Paul, maybe Chris M confused Patriots Day in Boston with the Tea Party Patriots. Some are just blinded by hate I suppose.

Gregory

Paul, Matthews didn't say it directly but he was sure trying to lead a guest to make the connection:
"CHRIS MATTHEWS: "Well, Michael, tax day today. That came up. You know, I was thinking of all the iconic events that are being told about today. Of course I knew it was tax day because I got them in. But of course, it's Patriots Day. It's also the Boston Marathon. And would you as an expert be thinking domestic at this point? I don't think tax day means a lot to the Arab world or Islamic world or certainly not to al Qaeda in terms of their world. It doesn't have iconic significance."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/04/15/chris_matthews_wonders_if_today_being_tax_day_had_anything_to_do_with_boston_bombing.html

Paul Emery

Gregory-Huh? That's it? That was supposed to connect the Tea Party? Pretty weird.

Gregory

Paul, blame George for overstating it a bit, but try to list famous tax protests in Boston without putting the Tea Party of 1773 at the top.

It's clear what Matthews was leading towards; there just is no other there, there.

TheMikeyMcD

pic.twitter.com/M7Q5AWQD5y

fish

Does the Turner Diaries ring a bell with anyone?.....

Still hiding under your bed because of bad "literature"!

Paul Emery

Really Gregory! I'm mostly interested in Georges rationals that Matthews blamed the tea party.

Gregory

Really, Paul, Matthews leading his guest towards blaming domestic terrorists in a Boston tax protest is perhaps the leading inanity in the minor media (BSNBC being one of the least watched news sources, mostly because of the lack of news).

Besides, there is no "tea party"; it's just a rallying cry for a number of splinter groups that pay homage to a formative tax protest long ago in Boston.

Paul, you're just splitting rhetorical hairs.

George Rebane

PaulE 1259pm - See RussS' 853am and google 'Chris Matthews, Boston bombing'. Also for some flavor of the attempt to immediately pin it on the Right (Note especially the casual insertion of "normally").
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/chris-matthews-normally-domestic-terrorists-tend-be-right

Having said that, I think that ChrisM is serving his leftwing constituency by speculations like this. My admonition is, 'Yes speculate, but identify it as such.' He passes the 'normally' off as a well known truth.

Gregory

George, you wrote, "Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all."

Telling people to google a phrase is a weak answer to the challenge. Matthews didn't 'select the Tea Party' as the most likely terrorist organization responsible, as virtually all who aren't on the left look to the original Boston Tea Party as a formative event to be revered. You overplayed the cards a little, owning up to that would have been appropriate.

Paul Emery

First of all Chris Matthews is a commentator not a newsman in his roll at MSNBC much like the similar ilk at Fox. It's a huge jump to assume he meant the Tea Party as you wrote by referring to his comment as precisely meaning the Tea Party (capital letters as you inscribed it giving it offical credence rather than casual association to a undefined group).

You did label your statement as a speculation or a question but rather a fact as it would likely be interpreted by anyone not bothering to check out what he said directly. Certainly Gregory's quote had nothing to do specifically with the Tea Party so I am still confused as to where you got that idea?

Paul Emery

I meant to say "you didn't label your statement....."

Russ Steele

Paul@02:50PM

Here is one place. This is from the Washington Post, following a link from the Instapundit

CHRIS MATTHEWS: It’s Never Too Early To Blame Tea Partiers For Tragedies.

Matthews was interviewing Democratic Massachusetts Representative William Keating, who also cited tax day or Boston’s Patriots Day as a possible motive for the bombing.

Later in the program, Matthews continued to expand his theory, suggesting that the attacker could be “domestic.”

“Well, Michael, Tax Day today. That came up. You know, I was thinking of all the iconic events, or told about them today. I knew it was tax day because I got them in,” Matthews said, as he was questioning an analyst on his show.


“Would you, as an expert, be thinking domestic at this point?” Matthews continued, “I don’t think Tax Day means a lot to the Arab world or Islamic world or Al-Qaeda in terms of their world. It doesn’t have iconic significance.”

Now if it was not the Islamic world and AlQaeda that Chris was thinking about, what other group might Tax Day be associated with -- Oh Tea Partiers! Well I'll be!!

Russ Steele

The bombs were in pressure cookers in back packs. According to experts:

These types of pressure cooker explosives have been used in Afghanistan, India, Nepal and Pakistan, according to a July 2010 joint FBI and Homeland Security intelligence report. One of the three devices used in the May 2010 Times Square attempted bombing was a pressure cooker, the intelligence report said.

"Placed carefully, such devices provide little or no indication of an impending attack," the report said.

Law enforcement has not yet determined what was used to set off the explosives. Typically, these bombs have an initiator, switch and explosive charge, according to a 2004 warning from the Homeland Security Department about these types of explosives.

Paul Emery

Can you show me the Washington Post headline post on that or the link from Instapundit? http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/ ? I couldn't find anything like that. That was an irresponsible headline if it did even exist. Never once did Wallace come close to mentioning the Tea Party. He was speculating the possible connection to Tax Day and radical groups that may wish to use it as a landmark. There are hundreds of such groups and Timothy McVeigh types with whom that possibly could have been a trigger. Is that any different than speculating that it was Islamic radicals or international terrorists?

George Rebane

PaulE 250pm - I have no idea what ChrisM actually is. My initial take of his charge was as cited, from RussS's 853am who sourced it as he has written here. A repeat of the quote is also available on Instapundit here
http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/167121/

Now what all this has to do with 'speculation' being aired during aftermaths of tragedies is a mystery to me.

And by your 324pm, ChrisM's speculation, besides not being identified as such, is different only to the extent that we know what he means by "normally". Consider this as a giving a precise answer - A hat is filled with white and black marbles, without looking you begin drawing out marbles seeing whether they are white or black. After doing this for a while, what fraction of the randomly drawn marbles have to be white before you would report that 'I normally drew out a white marble.'?

Paul Emery

So George, in your view he's specifically saying that the Tea Party is the most likely party responsible for the Boston Bombings.

George Rebane | 16 April 2013 at 09:28 AM


" Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all. "

Paul Emery


This is the link that Instapundit used to come up with their headline that you used as a basis for your view. "It’s Never Too Early To Blame Tea Partiers For Tragedies." Where does it mention the Tea Party? This is total trash and you know it.


http://washingtonexaminer.com/chris-matthews-bombing-might-be-domestic-attack-in-response-to-tax-day/article/2527265

Paul Emery

George

Did you actually read the Washington Examiner link? Where does it mention the Tea Party? Instapundit is total trash to write that headline and you know it.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/chris-matthews-bombing-might-be-domestic-attack-in-response-to-tax-day/article/2527265

Gregory

George, right now Paul is like a little dog humping your leg and that little dog is there because you attributed to Matthews something he didn't actually say. Yes, he was leading his audience to fill in that blank but he knew better than to actually do it for them, leaving the likes of that little dog to harass you as the one who filled in the blank.

That's a fine reminder to go back to original sources before making an attribution or be prepared to back away if an adversary does it for you and finds it comes up short.

Sometimes you can trust your source, sometimes you can't. I recall on an email list a few years ago, someone insisted a hit piece on the Senate was true... a large percentage not being able to get credit cards, lots of drunk drivers. Similar to this:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp

One of the loudest proponents insisted it had to be true because radio network newsreader Harley Carnes presented it on the radio news, so I wrote Carnes to inform him of the controversy, why I thought it implausible, and to ask what his source was. Carnes wrote me a nice note back, saying that he accepted it as truth because a good friend and journalist sent it to him. So he went back and asked his source who said... he got it on the internet. Carnes declared to me he'd get to the bottom of the hoax but as far as I can tell, he never did.

Paul Emery

Sorry for the double posting. I thought the first one didn't go through

Paul Emery | 16 April 2013 at 04:18 PM
Paul Emery | 16 April 2013 at 04:22 PM

Gregory

thanks for your deep insight into this matter. To me it's more like sniffing butts rather than humping.

Barry Pruett

Paul: I never thought of Chris Matthews as a commentator instead of a newsperson much like you abtly attribute to Foxnews evening programming (I assume). I guess that I would have to watch MSNBC news in order to make an informed opinion. That said, I think that I will view Matthews as more of a commentator in the future. Thanks for the good analogy.

Barry Pruett

As to George's post, we watched the news for about 15 minutes and they were already repeating themselves so we turned it off hoping to get more information in the morning...which never came. We still know as much as last night.

George Rebane

re Chris Matthews attributing the Tea Party as a suspect in the bombing - I can't find anything to back up RussS's 853am or the Instapundit quote. For the sake of this discussion let me retract that attribution to Matthews. But I do want to pursue the very definite "normally" quote of his attributing domestic terrorists to be of the Right. Here the unproven allegation of Matthews including the TP is just a placeholder anyway, it could have been one of a number of right leaning orgs. I hope my mea culpa allows us to proceed on how the lamestream views the Right as being the prime sources of domestic violence.

Paul Emery

Yeah Barry

MSNBC and the evening portion of Fox News are pretty much partisan blather on both sides. Fox does some decent reporting earlier on before giving way to Hannity, O'Reilly and to a lesser degree Gretta Van Sustern. MSNBC does very little real news and in the evenings offers Matthews, Maddow and someone new who replaced "Ed". They are all entertainers using the news as their palette.

George
Thanks for looking into this. It was uncharismatic of you to jump so boldly to such a weak assumptions. I agree with you that there is clearly no edge of terrorism from the right because for one reason we don't even have a definition of what terrorism is. There are all kinds of hatred that cause people to do horrible things.

I don't think Matthews represents much more than himself. He's a TV shock jock like the Foxers and his (msnbc) collegues listed above. You'll have to dig a little deeper to attribute his views to the larger media. Let me know if you find anything else from the established press.

My speculation for what it's worth is that the bombing was likely perpetuated by a lone wolf or very small group. The Islamic terrorists usually can't wait to claim credit and are more inclined to do suicide bombing. It's likely in my view to be a McVeigh- Unabomber type with undetermined motivation. There are sick evil people who just wish to create havoc such as James Eagan Holmes in Aurora, Colorado. That's my best guess but time will tell.

Joe Koyote

A recent study by Fair.org found that as much as 75-80% of MSNBC shows were commentary and not news at all.

"how the lamestream views the Right as being the prime sources of domestic violence." Before one can judge this statement's relevance shouldn't we know how many terrorists acts by Americans on American soil have been committed and by whom and what was their explanation for choosing their targets etc. Given the Black Panthers and other leftist groups it would be interesting to know the actual truth about which extremists have committed the most terrorist acts of volence.

Paul Emery

George

I meant "uncharacteristic" 16 April 2013 at 06:59 PM

Joe
I agree about MSNBC. Also, when KNCO was considering taking Rush off the air it's amazing how many people said they rely on him for their "news".


AS far as percentages of terrorists left or right we have to agree on what "terrorism" is. Anyone want to take a crack at that? Was Robin Hood a terrorist or a crusader for the rights of the poor or just a crook? Would you include racial hate crimes and abortion clinic bombings? If someone is terrorized by a shooter on the rampage is that terrorism? Is it terrorism to lob drones on civilian populations? Is war itself terrorism? How far back in history do we go in our calculations? Did the Black Panthers ever bomb buildings and streets? Was the Unabomber a terrorist? I personally think it's a question that has no answer.

George Rebane

re Terrorism - Those are all good points by JoeK and PaulE. If in my question, acts of terror are marbles of both (all?) colors (denoting motivations) that are placed in the hat, then we can still use that experiment to understand the use of such words as 'normal', 'almost all', 'frequently', 'few', etc. Without it we won't.

But terrorism - the committment of an act that causes terror - can be defined, but only from a relative or partisan perspective. For openers I would offer that an 'act of terror' has to have at least all of these attributes:
- surprise,
- deadly violence or immediate threat of violence
- committed against people who do not believe they are combatants engaged in an ongoing conflict,
- against targets (people, things, places, ...) not prepared, designed or suited to resist the means of terror,
- intended to cause enduring fear (angst), trepidation, ..., or simply terror in the surviving target cohort of sufficient intensity that it will change the large scale behavior of the target cohort from its norm, AND communicate the inevitability of having to suffer such incidents into the indefinite future, or until a set of published demands from the terrorists are met.

The target cohort will call the perpetrator of such acts a terrorist. The supporting cohort of such acts may call the perpetrators freedom fighters, national/cultural/ideological heroes, champions, ... .

And there's probably something I've left out, but for now it's a start.

Russ Steele


Salon: Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white American

There is a double standard: White terrorists are dealt with as lone wolves, Islamists are existential threats. Full article HERE.

The color of the terrorist skin seem to be important to this left wing organization.

Bill Tozer

What we need is another OJ Simpson caper to knock this Boston stuff off the front page. Time to move on to more important stuff. Anybody know what Casey Anthony is up to these days?

Russ, Timothy McVay has a godsend to the left.

Bill Tozer

According to the Military training manual, Catholics are potential terrorists. Probably have the mark of the Beast on their foreheads hidden by Red Sox ball caps.

Random thoughts by a conservative girl:

http://912member.blogspot.com/2013/04/catholics-as-terrorists-observation.html

Gregory

Paul, doublechecking veterinary psychology sites, no, I still think it was non sexual humping, an act of dominance. I think you and George are way past the butt sniffing phase (warning, link is to an old Cheech and Chong skit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj_Mwvsabfo

Pew Research did an analysis of cable news recently, and while Fox had a lot of opinion, MSLSD/BSNBC was almost entirely opinion.
http://stateofthemedia.org/2013/special-reports-landing-page/the-changing-tv-news-landscape/

Anyone who thinks they are getting news from MSNBC is deranged.

Finally, now that the Saudi who had been of interest has apparently been cleared by the FBI, I have no opinion on the likely group identity of the Boston bomber besides that of "homicidal crazies who should be hunted down and given a fair trial followed by a first class hanging".

Paul Emery

George

That's a good start. I'll chime in when I have time.


Russ

I don't believe white terrorists are necessarily lone wolves, an example being the Army of God who claimed responsibility for Eric Robert Rudolph's 1997 nail bombing of abortion clinics in Atlanta and Birmingham as well as an Atlanta lesbian bar.

Douglas Keachie

Based on the incoming news of the photography that shows the perp running away:

An Ode to Law Enforcement

Cameras are good.
Terrorists are bad.
Do not hassle,
My Hasselblad.

~Douglas Keachie~

Bill Tozer

The news is so sad. I don't know why I even bother anymore to find out what is happening in America or the world. Yesterday Lumpy of Leave It To Beaver fame has passed on. My heart is full of grief today. It puts things in perspective.

Ben Emery

Terrorism - Noun
The use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Kissinger relationship with known terrorist
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/129086/wikileaks-insight-into-arafat

US Drone Warfare killing/ terrorizing innocent civilians
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/15/world/asia/u-n-drone-objections

Preemptive invasion of Iraq

Coup de'tat of who knows how many democratic elected leaders
Iran 1953 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaGCJmCAJ40

I would be careful throwing around the term terrorists.

George Rebane

BenE 626pm - That definition is more than a bit wanting because so many other acts will also satisfy it. And one can cause terror with no act of violence per se, but just anticipation of it in the victim.

And who do you admonish with your "careful" remark?

Ben Emery

"And who do you admonish with your "careful" remark?"

To all of us.

Barry Pruett

Just heard a great point. How many law abiding citizens in Boston are sitting on their couch right now with a shotgun, pistol, or sport rifle, wating for a Chechen on the run to break through their door?

George Rebane

BarryP 726am - Yes, the Chechen would have less to fear in breaking into someone's house if the population were to be disarmed. Don't Chechens have rights too?

Gregory

George, with the strong restrictions on arms in the Boston area, I'm not sure how many folks hunkering down are doing so with a gun handy.

"It's likely in my view to be a McVeigh- Unabomber type with undetermined motivation." - Paul E.

Nice try, Paul.

Here's a nice picture of police in Mass. with what I assume are real, fully automatic M-16's and 30 round magazines:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-19/the-boston-terror-will-benefit-the-nra-hurt-gun-control

And here I thought they were only good for killing lots of people in a short amount of time.

Bloomberg Businessweek thinks the events will help the NRA's cause and I suspect the NRA would be happy for that to be true.

Gregory

"I would be careful throwing around the term terrorists." - Ben

Yet another inanity after the Boston bombings.

Bill Tozer

Yep, talk about Chicken Kiev.

This term terrorist gets tossed about lately and watered down in some cases and avoided in other cases. I don't have to pull out the Ole Websters to know what it means.

The Fort Hood shooter fires at unarmed soldiers shouting loudly "God is Great" and it is called workplace violence.

Catholics and Evangelicals are labeled potential terrorists by our Military Intelligence.

Timothy McVay was driven purely by political motives. He targeted a government building and his stated reason was revenge for Wacko. He also stated that he was unaware of any day care in the building at the time.

To me a terrorist is one who intentionally makes civilians as the target. Like the Boston Massacre II or the World Trade Center, parts one and two. Or the Times Square plot, etc.

This is not to say there is not collateral damage inflicted upon innocent civilians when government facilities and enemies are targeted. The humorous veiled inferences that the Tea Party (or a right wing disgruntled extremist group) was behind this attack on civilians wearing running shorts with little protection is plum crazy. If the Tea Party types were involved, their target would have been government buildings, not runners and their families and friends.

The Middle East is full of folks who purposely target unarmed innocents. They even attack mosque worshipers if they cannot control the mosque. That is real terrorism.

Timothy McVay and the abortion clinic bomber did reprehensible deeds and the left constantly points to them when the term terrorist comes up and overlook the vast majority of other terrorists and are strangely reluctant to label them as such.

This whole current atmosphere has eerily echos The Underground Weathermen of the 60's. Many similarities going on as the general populace feels that our Constitution Rights are being threaten, and that threat may be real. Chicken Kiev.

Russ Steele

New York governor Andrew Cuomo connects Boston bombing to climate change.

“It’s a terrible situation in Boston. And, unfortunately, … one gets the sense that this is more reflective of the ‘new normal,’ if you will,” he explained. “So much of society is changing so rapidly. We talk about a ‘new normal’ when it comes to climate change and adjusting to a change in the weather patterns. ‘New normal’ when it comes to public security in a post-9/11 world. Where these random acts of violence, which at one time were implausible, now seem all-too-frequent.

Talk about stupid. Only a brain dead liberal could believe that climate change was what forced these terrorist to attend an Islamic terrorist training camp to learn how to make pressure cooker bombs.

George Rebane

RussS 1043am - where did you hear that they attended an Islamic terrorist camp?

Douglas Keachie

Bet a cookie he's in the sewer system or in the river.

Bill Tozer

Russ, it appears the Boston Bombers were of the Caucasian race. Only thing that is important to the MSM. Can't be any religious views, now can it? Can't have anything to do with our immigration policy now can it? It has everything to do with the color of his skin from the liberal prism. Wonder what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would have to say about our media.

Gregory

George, it was probably an Islamist edX MOOC terrorist camp.

BTW, there was a ghost who recently claimed he'd not return to haunt us unless he was politely invited back... you didn't, did you?

Russ Steele

George@11:09AM

The older brother was more radicalized than the younger brother and was out of the country for six months, I am suggesting that he was in a training camp. Stratfor suggested that he may have received some training abroad, but could have just learned how to make IES from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula's Inspire Magazine. The brothers are reported to have used explosive vests and the older brother may have blown himself up. Did they make these explosive vests on their own, by studying manuals, or learning the details in a training camp? We really do not know if the older brother attended a training camp yet, but I am projecting that he did in my comment.

Gregory

"I am suggesting that he was in a training camp."

I am suggesting we not make stuff up.

My son, with Harvard and MIT ID's, is among those hunkered down. With maybe a million people told to stay home, and 30 thousand man days in a typical lifetime, they're blowing about 34 lifetimes a day, 1 1/2 lifetimes an hour, in the exercise. At some point very soon they should just let people go about their business.

Ben Emery

My tax day bomber narrative doesn't seem likely at all and only time will tell what the motivations were for the two or more. Here is where I keep going in my head, the US has put Afghanistan and Iraqi population through this type of stuff as daily life for over a decade.

Deadly wave of bombings across Iraq ahead of elections
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/15/world/meast/iraq-violence/index.html

Red Cross: Security deteriorating in Afghanistan
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/17/3987716/officials-attacks-across-afghanistan.html

George Rebane

Gregory 1241pm - I am innocent (at least of that).

Russ 1244pm - there are a lot of posted references that at least one brother received military training citing "as reported by NBC News". But I have yet to find anything on a NBC site that confirms this.

However, there are many citations quoting various sources (relatives, friends, etc) of the brothers' strong religious feelings for Islam, and their difficulty in assimilating into American society.

Speculation that they were Muslims did not require a stretch from probabilistic considerations. The media are avoiding connecting those dots like the plague.

Todd Juvinall

I see the blame America a first nuts are at it again. It is just like the USA in the wars over there they say. Cripes, the bodies are not warm yet and the little boy murdered here is not buried. I think those blamers are traitors.

Gregory

"My tax day bomber narrative doesn't seem likely at all"

"Doesn't seem likely" is the funniest thing I've seen from you, Ben.

No, a Moslem Chechen who prays towards Mecca five times a day (the older bomber) isn't a likely Tea Party tax protester. Better luck next slaughter.

George Rebane

BenE 202pm - Thanks again for the perspective that all was honey and flowers in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, and Pakistan (throw in Chechnya, Libya, and some more 'stans' for good measure) before we Americans got there. I had forgotten how well they had it under Saddam, the Taliban, the mullahs, the Alawites, Mubarak, Gaddafi, ... .

Gregory

George, I suspect the average Iraqi would choose the Baathists over the crap of the last decade, and I suspect we'd be better off had Ron Paul's position in '88 been more popular. It really wasn't our business that Iraq invaded Kuwait in the first place, and we'd be better off had the Saudis had to clean up their own neighborhood. They'd still be fighting amongst themselves, the World Trade Center towers would still be standing and we'd already have the Keystone pipeline built and in commission :)


Ben's problem is one of misdirected moral equivalence; no, a couple of disaffected immigrants killing and maiming scores of innocents isn't morally equivalent to the messy business of dealing with rogue governments that had killed and maimed, or helped those who killed and maimed, many hundreds of thousands of innocents. Someone needed to do it, just not us.

Gregory

The Boston area lockdown has ended as of a few minutes ago. One tv lip flapper reported there were 4 million people affected, which means about 6 lifetimes per hour were put on ice. Something like 50 lifetimes in total.

Was it the right thing to do? Maybe, but we should have some concept as to the cost while doing it.

Russ Steele

In defense of my position that the oldest terrorist had some training. An expert on Russia at Fox News said that following his visit to Russia and to his father in Chechnya the older son started posting Jihad videos on his YouTube Channel and on his Russian version of Facebook. There are Jihadist training camps in Chechnya, and given his change in attitude, as reflected in the social media, it is reasonable to assume the training may of had some influence.

The Russian Expert also pointed out that it takes some expertise and training to build suicide vests that work. It clear that one worked on Suspect #1 when he blew himself up. The pictures of the corpse shows a large hole on the body, like those made when explosives are attached to the body.

Suspect #1 was flagged by a foreign government according to a FBI source, as a potential problem two years ago. He was on the FBI watch list, but escaped by not raising any level of concern.

This is my case, what is the opposing case?

Ben Emery

George,
Who said it was all honey? Why do we think as Americans we have the authority to dictate to the rest of the planet of how nation should be run? By example is the way to convert other nations to our form of government not by the size of the bombs or end of a barrel of gun.

You need to ask yourself how and why did Saddam at any time have any kind of power, wmds, and the delivery system of those wmd's?

You need to ask yourself how did the Taliban come into being and gain control over Afghanistan?

You need to ask yourself how did Osama bin Laden become a leader, power player, and enemy of the US?

You need to ask yourself how and why are the OPEC nations or region so important for the US and developed nations?

In the US over the last 80-100 years our foreign policies have created our "enemies". I put the " " due to the fact they only became our enemies when they stopped being the puppets of the US.

Michael Anderson

Gregory 100pm - David Brooks made that exact point on the News Hour tonight. He also took note that Israel, expert in how to deal with both professional and home-made terrorism, has long adopted a "business as usual" approach to these types of events--if a cafe is bombed the whole city rallies to make sure it is open the next day.

And if you think about it, if the guy with the boat had walked his dog this morning instead of waiting for the "all clear," he would have seen the blood on his driveway and on the hull some 10 hours sooner. Never underestimate the value of a motivated citizenry.

Speaking of motivated citizenry, I think this is the best analysis I have read so far regarding the reasons why the faulty gun legislation did not pass:
http://nyti.ms/YA1iyG

Michael Anderson

GG wrote: "Better luck next slaughter," which made me LOL, and then,
"It really wasn't our business that Iraq invaded Kuwait in the first place, and we'd be better off had the Saudis had to clean up their own neighborhood. They'd still be fighting amongst themselves, the World Trade Center towers would still be standing..."

Totally agree. I'm even OK with the Keystone project as long as it's done like Slow Food.

Keach, you owe us a cookie.

Russ Steele

A former official with a state law-enforcement agency sent CalWatchDog a contrarian take on the week’s events in Massachusetts:
“At the risk of spoiling the high fives on the Boston bombing incident, has anybody asked how this guy was not on the FBI’s radar 5 minutes after the terrorist attack.  He openly posted radical ideas and linked to Chechen terrorist videos on the internet and had just traveled back to the epicenter of terrorism, Chechnya and Dagestan?????   
“We spend billions upon billions to gather intel, surveil the internet and identify potential threats.   JTTFs and terror centers and intel fusion hubs are to track and hopefully prevent these guys from acting.  At least he should have been on a short list of candidates within 12 hours of the bombing.  
“Yet the FBI was reduced to posting blurry video photos like any 7-11 robbery 5 days after the attack.  really, only the amateur nature of the attackers led to their arrests…not brilliant police work.  Didn’t get any value from anti-terror money spent.  After 5 days it would seem like someone might have looked at the Chechens photographs, which the FBI presumably had, and a light bulb would have lit up. They lived in the neighborhood!  The leader was a wife-beater!

Read the rest HERE: http://www.calwatchdog.com/2013/04/20/ex-ca-cop-u-s-law-enforcement-blew-terror-response/

George Rebane

The Boston bombings topic is continued in my 20par13 post here -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/04/boston-and-pan-islamism-some-early-ruminations.html

Gregory

Russ, 1:06

The movie quote that comes to mind is...

"Round up the usual suspects"
-Captain Renault, "Casablanca"

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