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24 April 2013

Comments

Account Deleted

Folks that demand that the govt 'invest' in green energy should be forced to provide their own funds, not the tax payers' money. That will put an end to that nonsense.

Todd Juvinall

The contracts between two Americans have been interfered with since day one. The government is loving us to death.

Ben Emery

The more I read your posts George and many of those who comment here the more it becomes obvious that you guys have little understanding of how a large segment or the population lives. As the saying goes and is extremely abundant on RR posts and comments

Ignorance Is Bliss

Todd Juvinall

So BenE, have you ever invented and patented anything? How about succeeded in running for office? Ever been in jail as an inmate? Or, please tell us ignorant people what makes you smart and us dumb. Inquiring minds want to know.

George Rebane

re BenE's 1109am - Obama administration alum Cass Sunstein claims a great understanding of how both large and small segments of our population live and should live. He told us how government should manage that in his 'Nudge' and advised his boss on all those first term fundamental transformations. Now progressives may further rejoice with his latest, 'Simpler: The future of government', from a man who knows what's best for us, and how to make it so.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324105204578384850872793208.html?KEYWORDS=cass+sunstein

Account Deleted

Ben - if you have something to add to the conversation or want to disagree, we would welcome a rational discussion. I'm fairly certain that stopping by just to throw out childish insults won't do much to advance your case.

Ben Emery

To comment on predator payday loans when having little understanding of the circumstances most of their customers find themselves is an insult and very arrogant. When your baby has no food or needs diapers today but your paycheck doesn't come for another three days it is a desperate situation and those mother Fer's will give a loan with huge interests attached to it. So when the paycheck does come it is lost to the interest and then the viscous cycle begins.

Once again exploitation of the poor is good business because when politics are controlled by pay to play the poor have virtually no representation in that government. George then scoffs at the idea that the poor actually might get a piece of legislation that could protect them from predator lending. Typical elitist post.

Ben Emery

Todd,
What does anything you threw at me have to do with the arrogance of a well off 70 something trying to comment on a subject he has no idea what he is talking about.

I grew up with very poor urban people and spent many of hours in their cramped 2 bedroom apartments that housed 5 6 7 and even 8 people. I know the circumstances that many of them found themselves in and the struggles and discussions that went on about going to these scum bag payday lenders. My best friend growing up basically lived with us for about 5 years because they had people in a 2 bedroom apartment. Grandma, Uncle, Mom, Dad, himself, and little brother. If it wasn't for Grandma's Social Security they would have been screwed. And get ready to gasp they were a black family from the south. Once the cycle begins it is very difficult to get out of it. Basically you go to work everyday and because of desperate moment you are trapped into giving a majority of your wages to the lenders.

The fact you still haven't got why I ran for office shows how dumb you really are Todd. I might be challenging the system again in 2014 depending on a couple of issues that will be determined by this summer.

Ben Emery

Read up pay day lending


Big Banks Offer Payday Loans At 300 Percent Interest: Study
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/21/big-bank-payday-loan_n_2924657.html

excerpt
"After six consecutive months with loans, a borrower will typically have paid hundreds of dollars in fees and still effectively owe the original principal on the loan -- a deep hole from which to recover," the study says. "As currently structured, banks’ cooling-off periods allow borrowers to become mired in a significant, destructive cycle of debt before the cooling-off period is triggered."

Gregory

Yes, they are usurers, loan sharks. I've no problem with shutting them down except for that pesky problem that I don't think one should use state power to stop adults from making stupid decisions.

That's how we ended up with prisons overflowing with perpetrators of victimless crimes.

Ben, how about if we allow it but the payday loan borrower has to sign a contract that in bold print clearly states that anyone who takes one of these loans more than once in a blue moon is a blithering idiot who deserves to be fleeced, and fleeced they will be?

George Rebane

BenE 742am - as a true progressive, you criticize and prescribe in the usual 'ready, fire, aim' manner. Your "To comment on predator payday loans when having little understanding of the circumstances most of their customers find themselves is an insult and very arrogant." shows an ignorance beyond redemption, you have no clue how "little understanding" I have of being poor, as if that were a prerequisite for writing my post.

But that aside, please tell us on what terms would you place your own funds into the hands of typical payday loan customers.

Ben Emery

Greg,
It only takes one to get caught in the trap. I think the disconnect on this blog is the idea of literally not having access to money anywhere in a persons life. Finding $20 might as well be $1000 for many people in America. As I put above if a person has immediate needs that cannot be put off a few days they go to these predators. I have seen it happen a number of times. The friend I talked about above started dealing crack his sophomore year in high school and his invitation to stay in our home stopped. I got into enough trouble as is and to have this drug thing being thrown into the mix wasn't going to help. He helped his parents get out from the loan shark practices of a legitimate business right next to Little Caesars near where we lived. Finally they broke the cycle and for the first time since I knew him (5th grade) his family stayed in one home making life for his little brother much better and secure. Before that they would move at least 3 to 4 times a year. He ended up in jail for half of his Junior year in high school. I have many examples of friends being in very similar situations. Some are still in jail for repeat offenses and some like my friend are now living a free life with families.

Todd Juvinall

BenE says "The fact you still haven't got why I ran for office shows how dumb you really are Todd"...

Well heck, I guess your reasons are well known to all except me then BenE.

What is fascinating is you were a child of privilege and had very nice parents willing to take in others less fortunate. That is a wonderful thing. However, my parents did it but never patted themselves on the back for doing it. Liberals always tell us about their "good deeds".

I once did a restaurant remodel for a man name Jok Wong. in Grass Valley. He was an escapee from Comm inst China in 1949 and he came to America. He died about ten years ago and left three or four apartment buildings to his kids and relatives. His grandchildren were all going to college. Never on public assistance. He came here with zip and worked 20 hour days and slept under the counter of his first restaurant.

So, stuff your hard luck stories where the sun don't shine and take your "woe is me attitude" to a shrink. You are too much.

Gregory

Ben, what role do you think government should have in protecting adults from themselves?

Ben Emery

George,
I have seen and have hear your story of childhood hardships plenty of times.

I actually would agree with you on the point you were making, there is a big IF in here, IF the economic policies of our nation federally and state were in the interests of the vast majority of the people. But they are not they are in the interests of big business because they have bought off our big two political parties.

Remember my differences between a liberal and progressive. A liberal will push to hold pay day lenders accountable and progressive will want to change the economic policies so pay day lenders become obsolete. A liberal progressive, which I will accept that label will want accountability until the economic reforms take place.

Liberals - want everybody to be able to afford to live within a corrupt and unjust society.

Progressive - want to correct the system so everybody can afford to live.

Gregory

Ben, can you point to a realization of your Utopia that exists, or has ever existed?

Ben Emery

No but the closest we have gotten to it was during the progressive era following WWII through the 60's into the 70's. Correcting the wrongs of our nation with reforming ability to organize and strike, separate but equal isn't equality, Jim Crow near eradication, women's rights, ect.. With all of these progressive reforms we saw a drastic expansion of our middle class and movement towards equality. Oddly enough this is when George grew up in so experiences of a poor white immigrant aren't comparable to those who were born and lived during the regressive era that really became prevalent during the Reagan years and we are still dealing with today. The Powell Memo, conservative think tanks, Friedmanites, Supply Side, Two Santa Claus, Laughable Curve, government run like a business and deficit spending became the status quo out of the fear that the appearance of the instability of the 60's early 70's was to become permanent. It wasn't instability at all it was the progressive reformation correcting all the wrongs our nation was built on.

Gregory

Ben, thanks for the tacit acknowledgement that a Utopia is your goal. Unfortunately, Utopia is not an option and there's a reason "progressives" don't win at the ballot box: the people don't want you in office.

I asked you a question which you chose to dodge: "Ben, what role do you think government should have in protecting adults from themselves?". The answer would seem to be any role that it takes to make the country 'fair'.

George Rebane

Errata GeorgeR 909am - This statement should have concluded the comment: Since this query belongs to a class well-ignored by the Left, my expectation is that only crickets will respond to it.

Gregory

George, here's a Reason article on the subject:
"The Unintended Consequences of Cracking Down on Payday Lenders"
http://reason.com/archives/2012/10/24/payday-lending-convenient-service-or-evi

In short, when shut down by a state, the business turned to automobile equity loans that resulted in large numbers of repossessed cars.

Gerry Fedor

So Todd, do you think that people should be responsible and payback their loans?

If so, have you stood up and payed back the losses for the real estate loan you walked away from?

Until that happens you're certainly not the guy that should be commenting on financial issues, or do you think otherwise?

Todd Juvinall


Gerry Fedor, are you the person arrested for fraud or was that someone else?

Paul Emery

Todd

You're going after the messenger here. What about his question?

"do you think that people should be responsible and payback their loans?"

Paul Emery

Also, if the government can bail out rich banksters and failed insurance scammers (Bush-Obama Tarp giveaways) for making bad decisions with other peoples money why shouldn't they bail out poor people who make bad decisions on paycheck loans?

Todd Juvinall

No PaulE, been down those roads before. How about the fact he is a ghost. Does that bother you? Also, how about you PaulE, paid all your loans back? How about child support? Stopped beating your wife? See, these things go nowhere. Besides, if all people were unable to comment on things they may have experienced then these pages would be blank. So, paid all tour credit cards back Paul? What a hoot.

Todd Juvinall

One more thing, what does a law regulating paycheck loans have to do with foreclosures anyway? Come on PaulE, you are just looking for an attack. Too funny.

Paul Emery

All my loans paid back, no children,

The similarities are obvious. First of all if you did not pay back your real estate loans, as suspected, then, because of your failed enterprise you contributed to the situation that received billions in public support to keep afloat. It was because of foreclosures and stupid people borrowing money that the economy collapsed.

Gregory

That little dog is humping Todd's leg this time.

Paul, when a lender in California makes a real estate loan, the loan is secured by the property only. The promise is if the money is not paid back, the lender may take the property back. That's it.

We don't have debtor's prisons anymore. There is no moral or legal compulsion for an individual to become destitute to insure Deutschebank or WellsFargo doesn't take a haircut on their mortgage portfolio.

Todd was in the building biz, and may well have stayed in the game just a little too long, doing one too many projects. So what? Lenders were no babes in the woods and made a bundle in the same business.

Todd Juvinall

Good explanation Greg. Business is business. PaulE knows that but he and the other fellow are just trying to get a rise. Doesn't work, they are frustrated little people. What a hoot!

George Rebane

Please check out the gun policy survey in the 27apr13 update to the 'US Murder Rate History' post here.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/04/us-murder-rate-history.html

Paul Emery

Todd

when the lenders are bailed out by government money for loaning money to loser projects such as yours then the connection becomes a direct taxpayer subsidy much like what supports LaMalfa and other hypocritical so called conservatives.

George Rebane

PaulE 1134am - Your drawing that connection, while ignoring the salient points made by Gregory's 945pm, appears to put you into the far leftwing camp proudly occupied by the likes of Mr Ben Emery. And gratuitously piling Doug LaMalfa's rice subsidies into the same argument becomes a disconnect beyond reach. It seems that you're just lashing out indiscriminately.

Paul Emery

Okay George, guilty as charged.

Greg's 9:45 merely whitewashes the passing of the expense of poor business decisions to the taxpayers therefore contributing to the national debt. The "haircut" was reimbursed by Bush and Obama's TARP and beyond. Are you denying that this occurred and that at least some part of the responsibility lies on poor business decisions from borrowers?.

Also I'm tired of hearing how the Sierra Business Council and Stephen Frisch is sucking taxpayer dollars while giving La Malfa political contributions a pat on the back for being a good "conservative" while he's totally dependent on taxpayer subsidy for the survival of his business.

George Rebane

PaulE 148pm - Not sure how Greg's 945pm stark and accurate summary whitewashes anything - it is as he states it. I'm not denying anything about TARP's occurrence; it was a political idea based on what I consider dubious economics - the banks should have failed, with their 'solvent assets' distributed to receivers.

Were bad/deadbeat borrowers also in TARP's causal basin? of course. All recessions/depressions in economic cycles can be traced back to poor business and government policy decisions. So where do you see that thread of argument leading?

Have no idea how LaMalfa's affairs and now SBC (?!!) gets into this discussion thread. LaMalfa is no more and no less "totally dependent on taxpayer subsidy for the survival of his business" than is the rest of our $190B agricultural industry which contributes about 1.2% to GDP. (BTW,rice farmers get less than 4% of total ag subsidies. You wanna get pissed off, get pissed off at corn and feed farmers.) And yes, LaMalfa is one of California's few sane members of Congress, helping to reduce net government expenditures that far outweigh his sector's or his personal sucking on the government tit.

Paul Emery

George

La Malfa seems to be sucking and biting at the same time. Kinda tough on the sow that provides the milk to keep the little piggies fat.

George Rebane

PaulE 339pm - Not tough on the sow at all. Were it so, the sow would quit providing the "milk". We must always remember that the milk is taken from us by force, and allocated by the elites to buy the necessary votes to keep them in power.

Paul Emery

In this case the fat piggie is our current Representative.

Todd Juvinall

PaulE has no understanding of business. What a hoot! You win some and you lose some. In my foreclosure it was an ex post facto law anyway. Also, the trade off on a foreclosure is a nick on one's credit which is no small thing these days.

I am sure PaulE has never partaken of any government largesse (is that rice he has with his sushi subsidized)). According to his heroine (I am assuming like-mindedness here) from Massachusetts though, the roads he drives, the police he depends on and the rest of the infrastructure he relys on is a "subsidy". That babe beat Scott Brown and is now a Senator. Good job PaulE, you are a freeloader, according to her. LOL!

Paul Emery

So George, Todd you have no problem with farm subsidies, right? Let's see, that's around 20 Billion this year I believe. Of course that doesn't contribute to the national debt and it's part of the desired "free market" system you desire. Just checking. It seems a little odd to me so an explanation would be helpful.

George Rebane

PaulE 702pm - C'mon Paul, you're not that old. We've circled this barn many times and you know what I think about farm subsidies, but I guess you've forgotten. You're looking for kiddie garden simplicity here, and it makes it look like you're on a baiting expedition.

Farm subsidies were already in place before any of us were born. And no one knows how to get rid of them - you have to do all of them at once, or leave them alone. No one has the courage to start picking who will go first, then next, ... . The best I can tell is that Washington is convinced that pumping in $20B a year (from the general fund) is what is required to produce about a $190B contribution to GDP.

If they pull the plug and go cold turkey, it's for sure that a pretty big transition will occur that most likely will wipe out the small farmer. (Recall that I'm as much against subsidizing the small farmer as I am against subsidizing the small auto manufacturer.) The big ag businesses will no doubt survive and gobble up what's left of small guys at maybe 25 cents on a dollar. That's going to cost a lot of politicians' jobs. And then it really gets complicated before things settle out.

So if you want to talk about ag subsidies, you're going to have to convince me that you grok any of this, instead of the "So ... you have no problem with farm subsidies" crap.

Account Deleted

"I think the disconnect on this blog is the idea of literally not having access to money anywhere in a persons life. Finding $20 might as well be $1000 for many people in America."

Let that sink in - "...literally not having access to money anywhere in a persons life." Really? In this country? A person born and raised in the good old USA never, ever having a penny their entire life?

Some of us strive for accuracy and some seem to strive for lunacy. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of nonsense the left will fabricate to support their world view.

Todd Juvinall

I see PaulE is still in the "never answer" mode as he always is. He is fishing for a fight. What a hoot!

If capitalism reigned across the globe in every country then I would be hard pressed to agree to farm subsidies here. It is not of course and other countries subsidize their farmers in order to stay in business. So America does the same. Farming our food is different then giving Solyndra a billion dollars isn't it PaulE? People may not need a car driven by the sun but they need a tomato grown in the sun. If you want to pay ten bucks for the tomato then sure, take the subsidy away. But remember, those lefty hated corporations pay about one third of the federal income taxes and hell, they are paying one third of the subsidies! I would think you you and BenE would be loving that!

Regarding your comment on SBC and how we all pick on the rent seekers and their captains. That is totally different use of the taxpayers dollars. At least with farm subsidies you get the tomato. With SBC we get zip and a big mouth ingrate. So, there you have it PaulE. Eco-subsidy 101. Learn it. live it, love it.

Paul Emery

It seems that the rice boys get a big chunk of the pie in California. Nice work if you can get it. So what we have here is a subsidized Republican politician who complains about government spending for poor folks while raking in millions in support for his unsustainable family business

Take the time to read this

http://farm.ewg.org/pdf/california-farm.pdf.

In any given year, only about 10 percent of California’s farmers receive direct subsidies.

This money is then concentrated disproportionately in the hands of a very small number of producers of five subsidized commodities – cotton, rice, wheat, livestock and corn – with the vast majority going to cotton and rice growers. Fruit, vegetable and nut producers, the so-called specialty crop growers who account for about half of the $36 billion value of the state’s
agricultural economy, get almost no direct support.........

George Rebane

PaulE 946am - Another bridge too far Paul. The ag subsidy business has become a commons. That no one in any sector can unilaterally withdraw without great damage or ruin does not mean that LaMalfa's family business or any of such businesses are "unsustainable". What you don't seem to understand is that no one can let go until they all let go together. (Recall my druthers that the rice subsidy be withdrawn from everyone concurrently. Give them a couple of years warning, and tell them they'll then be on their own.)

Perhaps you can go after LaMalfa on some more material grounds which would illuminate this discussion.

Paul Emery

I'm not quite done with Dougie yet. He's a pretty good gamer of public funds.

This is from Conservative blogsite http://www.rightondaily.com/tag/doug-lamalfa/

Doug LaMalfa claims to be “One of Us”. I don’t resent his wealth one bit – until you mix in the $5million in federal farm subsidies he has taken from us. Then I look at the stuff he and his family have – including a monster home in the Lake Almanor area reputed to be worth $4million. Then, I got angry – I get angrier when I look at his record of writing bills in the legislature to benefit himself and splitting the family farm six ways to circumvent the $180,000 a year per person farm welfare limit.

Gregory

Paul, what "whitewash"? Help me here; I don't see how you jump from humping Todd's leg over a failed project to blaming him for TARP. Personally, I think the legs of Barney Frank (D-Fannie & Freddie) and Chris Dodd (D-Countrywide) need a little dog to pay them some needed attention in these matters.

"So George, Todd you have no problem with farm subsidies, right?"

I never heard those two wax eloquently about farm subsidies, or any other New Deal policies for that matter. They're not "part of the free market", they're one tool the government uses to distort the free market.

Now, I wouldn't be surprised if LaMalfa actually thinks rice is a special case; since his family has been farming rice since FDR's day, he probably has a hard time imagining what a free market for rice would be in the USA. They've never seen one.

Ben Emery

Boys I am way to busy to try and keep a dialogue up online but Ag subsides have become a corporate hand out while hurting the small farmer. The only way to make a family farm doable these days if the land is owned outright otherwise with the massive breaks given to industrial agriculture makes it impossible to compete.
The other massive ag subsides does is create the huge influx from the south due to undercutting local agriculture in nations like Mexico.

In dedication to Willie Nelson B-day here is a link to his Farm Aid website.
http://www.farmaid.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=qlI5IhNVJsE&b=4695777&ct=7322739

Paul Emery

Gregory

I'd be curious to know how much actual rice gets produced at the LaMalfa inc. farms. We could t5hen divide it into the taxpayer subsidies number and get a per whatever estimate on what it costs the US to subsidize.

George Rebane

PaulE 531pm - FYI, I'm told the LaMalfa farms are rice seed producers.

Ben Emery

Here is a link to those who actually blow the whistle on factory farming despite the Ag Gag laws.

Another Koch brothers anti-democratic American Legislation Exchange Council (ALEC) legislation that protects big industry while punishing those who expose the truth. If Americans understood the truth we would do the moral and correct thing despite it being bad for profits. The proof of this is the secrecy behind ALEC and the legislation they push. If publicly supported why push it through backroom deals instead of through public opinion?

http://www.aspca.org/Fight-Animal-Cruelty/Advocacy-Center/ag-gag

Todd Juvinall

BenE, please stop your are causing me to laugh uncontrollably. Big AG is now the target today eh? Big oil, pharma, egg, auto, yikes, you libs are too funny. The Koch brothers spend their money where they want. Most of that money pays for freedom of the press and assembly. You libs should be kissing their hiney's.

PaulE is now jealous of a rice farmer. What's next Jen.

George Rebane

re BenE's 718pm - ???"...while punishing those who expose the truth."???

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