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21 June 2013

Comments

Ben Emery

The further down the privatization road of our public education and the stagnation of workers wages will continue to put the US behind the eight ball. Corporate profits, mandated private standardized testing, cutting budgets, loading up teachers with 30 to 40 students in elementary/ intermediate school, along with two working parents or single parents who have to work longer hours for less spending power don't have the time or energy to take active high quality roles in their children's education. Thanks Ronald Reagan and Bill Bennett for starting down this road of profitization of our commons.

Russ Steele

Here are some of the reading material from the Common Core Science Books reading list:

Eye of the Storm. Kate Messner. Walker Books for Young Readers.
In the not-too-distant future, huge tornadoes and monster storms have become a part of everyday life. [Warmer mantra that CO2 increases storms, yet no scientific evidence to support claims.]

Waiting for Ice. Sandra Markle. Charlesbridge.
Based on the true story of an orphaned cub. Far north in the Arctic Ocean on Wrangel Island, an orphaned polar ear cub struggles to find food. Without a mother to feed her, this young female must fend for herself. Due to rising global temperatures, food is hard to find because the pack ice that the bears rely on for hunting is late in coming. [Rising temperatures kill the polar bears? Not true, the polar bear population has been expanding, not declining. ]

A Warmer World. Caroline Arnold. Charlesbridge.
With clear explanations and bright, handsome collage artwork, this picture book packs in a lot about the effects of global warming on particular animals and the connections between them. Even small changes in temperature can produce big changes in animals' chances for survival, and up to one million species could be threatened with extinction as the planet heats up. As global temperatures rise, the warmer water is destroying coral reefs and many coral species are becoming extinct, while creatures in higher zones have nowhere to go to find cooler places. Many yellow bellied marmots, for example, have starved because they hibernate less in a warmer climate and cannot find the plants they normally eat. At the same time, some creatures do benefit because they can move to habitats that were previously too cold. The visual details bring the concepts close, from images of a butterfly in flight or the final view of an arctic fox with a factory belching black smoke in the background. A glossary and suggested resources conclude. --Booklist [ No warming for at least 15 years, with signs of cooling since 2003.]

Children reading these books students are being indoctrinated with lies and unproven science. Is this what you want for your children and grand children?

Gregory

Yes, in Common Core, the science is politicized and the math is watered down. The actual math standards are weaker than the outgoing California Content Standards and on first glance aren't too bad, but the standards in the old California Math Frameworks in the early '90's weren't all bad either, it's just that they mandated weak methods for teaching and the texts written to them were of poor quality.

Already the murmurs of how great the CCSS are sound just like the whole math and whole language pitches of the '90's. Forward into the past.

Ben, this isn't just because I want to disagree:

1) Privatization? No one would be trying it if public schools were a success story but in any case, hardly any of the schools are privately run and most of those are doomed because they're bound to the many of the same rules. The St.Sensibles are private, and provide a quality education for a fraction of the costs of public instruction.

2) School privatization has nothing to do with the state of the economy.

3) In California, the state tried to write its own tests and failed miserably. Our local St.Sensible was using the SAT9 that was instituted years before the state adopted it circa '98, and did so because it provided value to them and welcomed an independent evaluation of where the kids were at the beginning of the year, unlike the public schools who gave it at the end of the year in an attempt to make the scores look better.

4)Cutting budgets? Really? NYC spends about three times as much per student as they do in Utah, and Utah has better educational outcomes. The typical St.Sensible spends about what they do in Utah. It isn't the budget, it's how it's wasted.

5) Loading up teachers with 30 to 40 students in elementary/ intermediate school isn't ideal but small class sizes really doesn't correlate with educational achievement as much as teacher mastery of the subject matter does, and large class sizes of kids at the same level isn't that much of a problem. Trying to teach a large 6th grade English class when the actual range of abilities ranges from readers at the 3rd grade to 7th grade is a disaster, and that's all too common.

6) My dad worked middle school public education for 40 years, and parents weren't engaged in the '60's, either.
It was always the case that a minority of parents gave a damn, and it was all too rare that they were the parents of the kids that needed help.

7) "Thanks Ronald Reagan and Bill Bennett for starting down this road of profitization of our commons."

They aren't the ones that are killing education. Here's a fairly recent column from Walter Williams with some actual California Basic Education Skills Test questions that does a good job of assessing where the problems lay:
http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2013/03/13/educational-rot-n1530968/page/full


George Rebane

RussS and Gregory - Bravo!

Bill Tozer

My, 14 months have passed since a 13 year old boy was told by school officials that he can't fly an American flag on his bicycle because it "might offend someone."

Wonder if banning offensive things like an American flag will be taught in public schools once Common Core lays down the law. Trying to think of some lesbian couples that had a remarkable impact on the founding of our country, but I am having a senior moment. Must be Old Timers disease coupled with a white out.. Pretty sure it will come to me along with the historic impact of Pygmy Eskimos in the Civil War and the Industrial Revolution. Timmy Leary must be a dead white guy by now so we have to strike him from the history books no doubt. Is Jerry Rubin still around? I still have a copy of "Do It". No matter.

I once posted on the former The Union site that my child went down to the Natural Environment Museum (or whatever they call themselves) on a high school charter school field trip to Frisco. My child came back with the poop scared out of her. Poor thing. She was told by the museum "leader" that Global Warming will knock the earth off its axis and hurl us all into outer space where we will either fry like a Frito or freeze our tushes off and, of course, we are all gonna die. Very upsetting to her and her parent, aka, yours truly.

I wonder if Global Warming will be a important topic of Uncommon Core. Ya think? Since no dear reader believed the story about being hurled to infinity and beyond, as well as other educational events that happened in the Sanctuary City By The Bay, I dropped the topic.

http://theveteranssite.greatergood.com/clickToGive/vet/article/Patriotic-Flag-Boy-gets-Parade-Apology295?origin=VET_FACE_TROOPS_BLOG_FlagBoy_062013_CT

stevenfrisch

Yeah....time to whip up the Common Core fears..... after all Orlean Koehle will be at the CABPRO meeting next week.... if anything this site can act as a convenient echo chamber of the right wing noise machine......

and fear is the common theme:

.....fear of loss of culture
.....fear of losing your guns
.....fear of loss of language
.....fear of loss of sovereignty
....fear of crime
.....fear of global control
......fear of Chinese hegemony
....fear of homosexuality
......fear of losing your position as the chosen ones

Must be tough living with all that fear.....think I'll ride my bike today!


Gregory

It ain't fear, Frisch, it's anger. How typical of you to ignore the topic and go right to an amateurish diagnosing of fear and paranoia of the folks presenting the information.

I spent a decade trying to get a decent education for my kid out of local schools, and it's anger over the dysfunctional schools, and wanting them better rather than worse, that drives me on this topic. What's your motivation, besides scoring cheap points?

Phil Daro was a major player in California's whole math implosion of the 90's, now he's out of the shadows as one of the gnomes who has been working on Common Core math in the shadows, and our currently excellent state content standards, in place as a reaction to the Whole Math debacle, are being swept away with CCSS.

This is a mess, and unlike previous moves towards faddish educational trends, this one is a nationwide move towards a new curriculum which ain't even finished, to be measured by assessments that have yet to be created. It's one thing to take California's education towards the drain, it's yet another to take down the entire country at once.

Russ Steele

All Common Core Testing is done on line. No more paper tests. HERE is an assessment of the testing process and the unintended consequences of computer scoring and health related issues. The testing assumes that all 4th grade students are computer literate:


The first 4th grade ELA passage is 870L, which is within the range for 4th grade; I typed the passage and saved as a txt file to upload to the Lexile analyzer, which gave me this score. It is a fictional narrative that runs 551 words long and is about a coyote trying to get honey from a bee hive in a tree. There are five comprehension questions, four of which are multiple choice. For the fifth, the student must find supporting details and type those sentences into a box.

The second passage is an expository piece about the Grand Canyon. The CCSS asks students to do close readings of text and doesn’t delve into author purposes for writing. Yet, the test asks the student, “Which best describes why the author uses the sentence above?” Another question asks, “Why does the author use questions throughout the passage?” In other words, the test is asking students to speculate on author-purpose.

There are seven questions for this passage: 4 are multiple choice, two are type-in-the-answer, and one is matching for a vocabulary item.

Many of the questions asked students to choose a sentence to complete a writing assignment, for example, either an introductory or concluding sentence. These writing questions were all multiple choice.

Questions 19-22, 23-24 are based on listening to passages, rather than reading it.

My reaction to the test:

It was boring. The test passages were uninspiring and boring. Sadly, that is probably normal for this type of test.

Several test questions required students to type answers into a box. Since they should have learned keyboarding in third grade, this is appropriate. However, I tried to test what would happen if I had the correct answer, but misspelled words. This practice test, though, didn’t score my results. On a matching question, I deliberately matched several definitions to words and it allowed me to do that, instead of giving me an error message.

There were several error messages: I couldn’t go to the next page without answering all the questions on a page. This means that students won’t be able to follow a typical test taking strategy of answering the easy questions first, then coming back to tackle the harder ones. Partly this is because the final test will be computer adaptive, as discussed above. It means students must try to answer each question in order. You are allowed, however, to go back to previous questions and at the end, you may review your answers before submitting.

Conclusions:
• This new type of testing, especially the computer adaptive testing, will require a different test-taking strategy than before. Students can’t go forward until they complete the question in front of them.
• The testing is mostly multiple choice, which means from this standpoint there is little difference from a paper-and-pencil test.
• The test equipment will also need to include a headset so each student will be able to hear the speaking parts carefully. This need hasn’t been addressed in any of the technical requirements I have seen. But without this extra equipment, ambient room noise or sounds of other students could skew the results. I took the test in the midst of a thunderstorm and that affected my ability to hear the test. So, if 100 students are testing, you’ll need the 100 computer or tablet stations AND 100 headsets. (Will headsets have to be sprayed and cleaned to prevent the spread of head lice? Yet another headache to this testing process!)
• It is unclear what effect mistyping or misspelling will have on test scores
• The navigation seems simple enough.
• Students must be familiar with the concept of error messages from a computer and be able to read the error message and follow instructions to correct the error
.

One of Nevada County Charter Schools was a beta test site of the Common Core Testing. As a result, they have decided to go paperless and use Googles on line tools for all class room activities as possible. Their education will be in online and in the cloud. Each student and teacher will have an account and they will exchange information via the network. This required upgrading of their broadband network. Upload speeds became as important as down load speeds. Not the current mode of most broadband networks, which emphasize down load speed over up load speeds. There are lots of unknown in the implementation of the Common Core.

stevenfrisch

Dear...dear Greg....if you want to seriously talk about education reform then more power to you..have a conversation about education reform....I suspect we would find a lot of common ground...but the comments below, sprinkled into George's commentary, are not about educations reform, they are about advancing and ideology....and show your claim that this is not about sowing fear false.

"This should not be a surprise since the feds are getting into every act possible that affects our lives. We have witnessed how Dodd-Frank has misfired in the financial markets, and how Obamacare is screwing up America’s healthcare to a fare thee well."

"......and their support of the teachers’ unions."

"I needn’t remind you of how things work out whenever individual responsibility is made into a collective responsibility, the history books are full of the resulting national scale tragedies."

"Instead our little darlings will be taught environmentalism, globalism, feminism, social, racial issues, …, you get the idea."

"....in that it will diminish the little that is left of what we used to call American culture."

"But then, is that not an overarching objective as we shed the last vestiges of American exceptionalism?"

"Reflecting on this I am reminded of someone who said, “Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world." [by the way, this quote is Vladimir Lenin]

And why bring up the Melissa Harris-Perry, she is nothing but another commentator, she has nothing to do with developing or implementing common core.

Fear, fear, fear....

Gregory

Dear, dear, indeed.

Anger, anger, anger... I realize that isn't as easy to treat as a weakness.

By the way, a question that you dodged in a previous threat... did you really spend less than 2 hours a week lobbying against Prop 23?

Barry Pruett

Steve: Just a query. Isn't common core about "about advancing and ideology" in our youth? Am I missing something?

stevenfrisch

Now, Greg, why would you want to change the subject? How about you respond to the comment above and we leave Prop 23 for a little addendum?

"...previous threat..." Freudian slip, indeed!

The addendum: to answer the question re: Prop 23, on some weeks I did spend more than 2 hours a week, but then again I work about 60 hours a week, and its a long year! If you are going for a "substantial part" test claim I have an idea, why don't you sue my ass and we can see who wins? I would eat your lunch, then sue your sorry curmudgeon, angry ass for a SLAPP suit violation. Might be fun. I think other people are kind of tired of going back to this over and over again.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 22 June 2013 at 08:41 AM


First, sorry for the typo.

My point was not that George should not critique common core for its content...I would consider that fair game.

If anyone wants to actually look at Common Core, it is here: http://www.corestandards.org

My point was that the inflammatory framing in George's commentary sets up the discussion of Common Core as an ideological conflict rather than a rational debate about what should be included in curriculum, which I believe should be vigorously discussed.

To have a rational discussion, as you point out on another thread, we have to move beyond where we agree to disagree; the point that we may disagree about Dodd-Frank, Obamacare, teachers unions, communitarianism, differences over race and gender, the supremacy of American kulture, obscure references to communism, and whether or not we like Melissa Harris-Perry are irrelevant.


Barry Pruett

Isn't the argument that common core is "about advancing an ideology" an element of the discussion? The article is also full of examples of the content of the proposed curriculum which in the writer's opinion is geared towards "advancing an ideology" instead of properly educating our children for the 21st century.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 22 June 2013 at 09:14 AM

Of course the content of the proposed curriculum is a valid discussion....my point is that you don't get there by calling people who disagree with you communists...you are never going to get to the conversation.....

I suggest George go to the Common Core standards, read through them, and show specifically where they are 'advancing an ideology'.

Here is an example of the content:

"CCSS.ELA-Literacy.RH.11-12.8 Evaluate an author’s premises, claims, and evidence by corroborating or challenging them with other information."

I would ask readers to go through the link I provided above and find the specific examples of where Common Core is talking about "environmentalism, globalism, feminism, social, racial issues," and positing a specific point of view on these issues. That could be open for debate.

But NO WHERE in George's original comment does he point to a specific Common Core standard or cite a specific example of a problem. In short, he is just repeating talking points rather than adding anything to a rational discussion.

Barry Pruett

Fair enough.

George Rebane

re stevenfrisch 928am - For those who have difficulty in understanding the objective of a four-minute radio commentary, especially on a topic as complex and controversial as Common Core, here's a heads up - its scope does not include a detailed discussion of the pros and cons of individual courses in its vast curriculum. The objective of the commentary is to motivate debate, and the function of RR is to give it a wide forum.

"But NO WHERE in George's original comment does he point to a specific Common Core standard or cite a specific example of a problem."

"The revision of the curriculum hits full stride in the maths that are the foundation of the sciences. For example, while other countries competing in the global markets start teaching math fundamentals earlier, our new Common Core moves the teaching of algebra up from the eighth grade to the ninth grade. This means that beginning calculus, fundamental to all the higher maths, will no longer be taught in our high schools."

stevenfrisch

Here is an example of the 11th and 12th Grade Literature and Arts standards:

"CCSS.ELA-Literacy.RL.11-12.7 Analyze multiple interpretations of a story, drama, or poem (e.g., recorded or live production of a play or recorded novel or poetry), evaluating how each version interprets the source text. (Include at least one play by Shakespeare and one play by an American dramatist.)"

One would think that 12th grade would be where the full force of the communitarian state would be ensuring that its ideology is being rigorously enforced, yet we see, the standard is really quite benign and even-handed, never telling the teacher what additional story, drama, or poem they should use, other than using 'at least one play by Shakespeare and one play by an American dramatist".

So where is the threat to American culture in this?

Read all the standards...point to the propagandizing in them....I am waiting ;)

stevenfrisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 22 June 2013 at 10:16 AM

Actually George it sets a MINIMUM standard of teaching Algebra in the 9th grade. If a local school district wants to teach it in the 8th (or 6th) grade if students are ready they can. It does not require that they DO NOT teach it until the 9th grade.

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 1022am - Actually its "minimum standards" are one of the main points of contention about Common Core. Today most public school curricula already teach algebra before the 9th grade, thereby allowing the inclusion of calculus, or at least pre-calculus, to be offered in high school. The last thing the country needs is lowered minimum standards in STEM subjects. We already have a dearth of qualified math teachers in public schools, Common Core does nothing to motivate raising such teacher standards, and instead gives them another reason to duck them. What school district or school will now bend over backwards to teach algebra in K-8 given Common Core's easy out?

stevenfrisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 22 June 2013 at 10:16 AM

Really George? Motivate debate about what? No where in the commentary did you accurately cite a single specific example of the standards as a problem. Your citation of the 8th/9th grade issue was a misrepresentation of what the standard itself would do. You did provide plenty of fodder to debate a host of other issues, cited above, that are extraneous to the Common Core issue.

But I am glad you finally got down to brass tacks and promoted the CABPRO event, since that was the real intent of the commentary and this post.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 22 June 2013 at 10:33 AM

Great George, then you actually have a specific recommendation.

Although most states may teach Algebra before the 9th grade, there is no federal standard encouraging them to do so, so you kind of avoided the point of my comment.

If you are suggesting that we should set a national minimum standard that we teach Algebra at the 8th grade level or below, I am right there with you. Your critique of Common Core then would be that it sets the standards too low, not that Common Core is Leninism.

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 1041am - Just read the goddam post and give us your take on Common Core or something that is related to the topic beyond ragging on me. I'm not suggesting anything that I haven't mentioned in the post or the years of this blog, which includes that Common Core is yet another centrally planned effort by an overwhelmingly incompetent federal government that is promoting collectivism wherever it can. And yes, it does set low standards IMHO. But the point is that whatever the standards, they should not be dictated by the feds or me, they should be developed and applied locally.

stevenfrisch

I'm sorry George, I should have read the unsourced site from Ms. Orlean Koehle first, I should have said Nazism.

It's really hard to get the charges of anti-American philosophies straight when you so seamlessly switch between communism, socialism, communitarianism, authoritarianism, nazism, nihilism, non-sectarianism, Islamism, and absurdism.

Here is a little taste of Ms. Koehle's logic:

"Here are some of the steps that were taken under Nazism as education and schools were transformed into national centers for indoctrination. I list them as a warning of where we could be headed? Some of them sound very familiar to Common Core all ready:

A law was passed that helped promote the formation of a teachers’ union that became so powerful, no one could teach without belonging to it. The union was the National Socialist Teachers League (NSTL) and by the 1940s, 97% of all teachers belonged to it.

Teachers were Weeded out who Could not Go Along with the New System. Those who were openly hostile to Nazism faced arrest and concentration camps. Teachers who wanted to keep their jobs were forced into silent acquiescence. Older teachers were replaced with younger ones who were more easily indoctrinated.

Teachers who were Enthusiastic Supporters of Nazism Got Promoted. “Thus over time the NAZIS steadily increase their hold on German schools and by the 1940s had an increasingly compliant cadre of teachers.”

The Curriculum was Rewritten to Provide a NAZI-Approved Curriculum. Teachers had much less leeway in the design of their lessons. The NAZI Party, in effect, instructed teachers as to what they could and could not teach.

Anti-Intellectual Training: The focus of education became centered on physical development, party indoctrination, moral or character training [with a whole new concept of “morality” and “character,” nothing to do with religious faith]. It was an “education of the will,” rather than “a training of the mind.” A quote from a book written by two scholars about Hitler’s life describes this very well: “We cannot fight our way out of this deep crisis through intellectualism...The school for character ...which is a practical test of true comradeship in work and living is irreplaceable.”

The NSTL was Established for NAZI Ideological Training: Leaders of it were to ensure that teachers conformed to National Socialist doctrine.

Leaders and Master Teachers in the NSTL Visited the Schools and Kept Data Files on Teachers: One of their main functions was to determine the political reliability of teachers and their loyalty to the NAZI Party in order to ensure proper placements and promotions.

The NSTL Leaders Operated Through Both Propaganda and Intimidation: It was responsible for the ideological indoctrination of its members.

Teachers were Encouraged to Join the NAZI Party Itself: Some did so out of party sympathies; others did so as a smart career choice. By 1936, 32 per cent of all teachers were NAZI Party members. This was reportedly twice as high as in most other professions.

Racism and Data Collection by Teachers: Teachers were asked to play an active role in the NAZI racial program and applied the “principles” of racial science. They measured students' physical characteristics, including skull size and nose length, and recorded the color of hair and eyes to determine whether they belonged to the true “Aryan race.” This data was gathered and given to German officials. Jewish and Mischling (mixed Jewish-Aryan children) as well as Romani (Gypsy) students were often humiliated in the process. "

Sounds just like what is happening in America today!

Gregory

".my point is that you don't get there by calling people who disagree with you communists."
-Frisch

He didn't.

Regarding your lobbying activities regarding Prop 23, silly Steve, of course I wouldn't sue. However, I was naive enough to think your hiding your SBC ties when writing about Prop 23 in The Union was just to make it appear you were a regular joe to the readership, not for a plausible deniability had anyone called you on it which makes more sense.

Regarding your quoting of pieces of Common Core 'standards', that's how all standards get sold. As far as content goes, they aren't horrible; maybe better than Mississippi's, substantially worse than Mass. and CA current standards. Even the wretched California standards in the early '90's had support in the standards for decent math instruction, but in actual practice, math achievement dropped dramatically, even in places like the tony parts of Palo Alto. And Common Core is being pushed with the same language as those standards were:

"There will be fewer standards, and you will dwell at earlier grades on issues such as fractions and proportions, and much longer times so you have a fuller understanding. Students will be asked to explain their knowledge in ways that they couldn't in multiple ways in word problems and in modeling and in timelines, and in feedback to their teachers and their peers to show they really understand the concepts. So by the time they get to higher math, there won't be the missing elements we find now in California schools."
http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201208171630/a

More talking. Less math. And there are *NO* missing elements in the current content standards or the approved texts following those standards.

Gregory

"I'm sorry George, I should have read the unsourced site from Ms. Orlean Koehle first, I should have said Nazism."

Let's thank Frisch for his Godwin's Law forfeit.

stevenfrisch

You know Greg, you must be a certifiable Grade A moron. Here is the link to the original editorial in The Union as it appeared and was posted on another thread:

http://www.theunion.com/news/2285939-113/opinion-editorials-opinionivg

As anyone can see I identified myself clearly, thus you are a total and complete frigging liar. Any comments that flowed from my original editorial were derivative, any intelligent reader could see exactly who I was.

Second, I did not bring up Nazism, George posted to a link that had those very words posted in quotation marks above in it. It would be George who is forfeiting due to Goodwin's Law, not me; but I don't hold to Goodwin's Law anyway, when I see a Nazi freak I call them one, unabashedly. Goodwin's Law is Goodknight's crutch, not mine.

Finally, I see neither of you can actually go to the source document and back up anything George said, which tells about all I need to know about what the real agenda is here, just more dissembling nonsense about the demise of American kulture...fear mongering....and propaganda.

stevenfrisch

Gregory:

".my point is that you don't get there by calling people who disagree with you communists."
-Frisch

He didn't.
--Gregory

Here is what George said: "Reflecting on this I am reminded of someone who said, “Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world." [Vladimir Lenin]

You may not be able to see the dangle through the fig leaf, but intelligent readers know exactly what George was saying.

Gregory

Not a "liar" Frisch, but I do owe you an apology on that specific claim, as, assuming the print edition would bear it out, you did in the editorial. My memory is of the comment stream (apparently gone) where you just claimed you were a regular guy paying attention to politics, and I chimed in to inform the others participating that you were the president of SBC and that your revenue was in part from such regulations and I extended that to the actual column.

That said, while you were identified as the head of the SBC, nothing in your text disclosed you either derived revenue from carbon sanctions, or expected to.

George Rebane

Even communists get stuff right now and then. I cited Lenin because he has been demonstrated correct in the application of central planning to education. And I have made plain my vehement disagreement with the preponderent ideology that has flowed into our public school classrooms during the last forty years. I believe that Common Core will now put that flow rate on steroids, and deprive caring parents from the last vestige of feedback to a machine that has by now developed a well-fashioned elitist tin ear.

BTW, I also believe that Mao, the greatest killer in history, had it right when he declared that 'All power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' Most certainly today's progressives have undersigned that belief.

Gregory

There's a big difference between calling someone a communist and quoting Lenin.

Regarding grabbing the kid's attention, does everyone remember this gem?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDXQsnkuBCM

Or this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxis7Y1ikIQ

Yes, AGW is a part of Common Core.

George Rebane

Gregory 348pm - Re SteveF's seeking to hide his SBC relationship during AB32/Prop23 discussions, I do remember the KVMR broadcast debate he and I had on topic years ago. Through an understanding between PaulE and SteveF that I apparently misunderstood, my on air revelation that Steve headed SBC which stood benefit from the implementation of AB32 brought forth much gnashing of teeth and opprobrium toward me from both Paul and Steve. Steve's provenance was to remain unknown to the listener, he was supposed to come across as just the well-informed "regular guy" off the street.

Having already said it in these pages, I want to reiterate here for the record that everything SteveF then claimed about the benefits of AB32 and its beneficial implementation by CARB has turned out false (or was a lie, if he so intended).

Gregory

"As anyone can see I identified myself clearly, thus you are a total and complete frigging liar."

There is a common idiocy in our society which has forgotten that a lie requires making a false statement knowing it is false. I erred, nothing more, in conflating two different issues into a false recollection.

I am not a liar but I think it is reasonable for me to say Frisch, the six figure CEO of the wretchedly misnamed Sierra Business Council, a non-profit*, is a complete frigging ass.

*
[ the wiki describes 501c3 status as Religious, Educational, Charitable, Scientific, Literary, Testing for Public Safety, to Foster National or International Amateur Sports Competition, or Prevention of Cruelty to Children or Animals Organizations...]

stevenfrisch

My how memory fails people.

I was introduced in the radio debate as the President of the Sierra Business Council. Our agreement in advance, which George was well aware of, was that we would stick to a fact based debate over the issues, and agreed not to impugn the motives of the other participants. George broke those rules in his opening statement, which he attests to here on his very own blog:

http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/09/ab32prop23-is-very-relevant-to-nevada-county.html#more

See Pauls words...


The fact remains that almost all of what George said in his opening statement on that show was patently false: SBC does not get anywhere near the majority of its funding from government [and institutional] sources, even at the time we received less than 30% of our funding from government sources, and a small percentage from private foundations; I am not, nor have I ever been a paid lobbyist; and I do what I do because I believe it is right.

Russ Steele went on in the comment's on the blog to state "Sierra Business Council collected over $829,318 from government grants in 2008 which WAS PUBLIC MONEY." That is also false. Russ does not know how to read a 990 form....that is money that is applied our charitable purpose not government money.

I use the resources at hand to do what I believe is right and within our mission as an NGO, and am completely open and honest about that. If my organization can derive revenue from implementing projects that help the region adapt to or mitigate the impacts of climate change, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What I did not do on the program was ask to see George's investment portfolio; I am sure that if I had had access to it I could have found a financial advantage he would gain from the passage of Prop 23.

The fact are George that you acted unethically in your opening comments, and you knew it, and here when you said that I was seeking "to hide his SBC relationship".....your memory is slipping.

stevenfrisch

My how memory fails people.

I was introduced in the radio debate as the President of the Sierra Business Council. Our agreement in advance, which George was well aware of, was that we would stick to a fact based debate over the issues, and agreed not to impugn the motives of the other participants. George broke those rules in his opening statement, which he attests to here on his very own blog:

http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/09/ab32prop23-is-very-relevant-to-nevada-county.html#more

See Pauls words...


The fact remains that almost all of what George said in his opening statement on that show was patently false: SBC does not get anywhere near the majority of its funding from government [and institutional] sources, even at the time we received less than 30% of our funding from government sources, and a small percentage from private foundations; I am not, nor have I ever been a paid lobbyist; and I do what I do because I believe it is right.

Russ Steele went on in the comment's on the blog to state "Sierra Business Council collected over $829,318 from government grants in 2008 which WAS PUBLIC MONEY." That is also false. Russ does not know how to read a 990 form....that is money that is applied our charitable purpose not government money.

I use the resources at hand to do what I believe is right and within our mission as an NGO, and am completely open and honest about that. If my organization can derive revenue from implementing projects that help the region adapt to or mitigate the impacts of climate change, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What I did not do on the program was ask to see George's investment portfolio; I am sure that if I had had access to it I could have found a financial advantage he would gain from the passage of Prop 23.

The fact are George that you acted unethically in your opening comments, and you knew it, and here when you said that I was seeking "to hide his SBC relationship".....your memory is slipping.

stevenfrisch

Ok George....why are my posts disappearing now?

stevenfrisch

My how memory fails people.

I was introduced in the radio debate as the President of the Sierra Business Council. Our agreement in advance, which George was well aware of, was that we would stick to a fact based debate over the issues, and agreed not to impugn the motives of the other participants. George broke those rules in his opening statement, which he attests to here on his very own blog:

http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/09/ab32prop23-is-very-relevant-to-nevada-county.html#more

See Pauls words...

The fact remains that almost all of what George said in his opening statement on that show was patently false: SBC does not get anywhere near the majority of its funding from government [and institutional] sources, even at the time we received less than 30% of our funding from government sources, and a small percentage from private foundations; I am not, nor have I ever been a paid lobbyist; and I do what I do because I believe it is right.

Russ Steele went on in the comment's on the blog to state "Sierra Business Council collected over $829,318 from government grants in 2008 which WAS PUBLIC MONEY." That is also false. Russ does not know how to read a 990 form....that is money that is applied our charitable purpose not government money.

I use the resources at hand to do what I believe is right and within our mission as an NGO, and am completely open and honest about that. If my organization can derive revenue from implementing projects that help the region adapt to or mitigate the impacts of climate change, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

What I did not do on the program was ask to see George's investment portfolio; I am sure that if I had had access to it I could have found a financial advantage he would gain from the passage of Prop 23.

The fact are George that you acted unethically in your opening comments, and you knew it, and here when you said that I was seeking "to hide his SBC relationship".....your memory is slipping.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: Gregory | 22 June 2013 at 04:33 PM

See this is just classic.....if the IRS questions the charitable purpose of the Tea Party it is persecution...but my status is fair game to these clown....what a bunch of friggin' hypocrites.

I think its pretty clear who the ass is here Greg, I may be unwise to give you a platform for your vitriol and personal grudges...but you are the ass.

stevenfrisch

And I notice that Greg has not taken back the Goodwin's Law statement. Greg do you acknowledge that it was George who broke your esteemed Goodwin's Law? Will you apologize for that as well.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: Gregory | 22 June 2013 at 03:57 PM

"Yes, AGW is a part of Common Core."--Gregory
__________________________________________________________________

Here are the Common Core standards for English Language Arts
& Literacy in History/Social Studies, Science, and technical Subjects:

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/CCSSI_ELA%20Standards.pdf

Nowhere is climate change, global warming or any thing to do with the issue even mentioned in Common Core. So was Gregory lying, or was he "making a false statement [without] knowing it is false."

Yeah, I think he was just talking out of his sphincter without even reading common core....

George Rebane

re SteveF's 546pm - Here's what I wrote on that link, and I believe it to be correct. But I would really like to hear proof of Steve being introduced on that program as SBC's president.

On that program I pointed out that his non-profit NGO receives the overwhelming portion of its funding through government and institutional grant monies. Moreover, that the full implementation of AB32 would be of direct financial benefit to SBC, and to Mr Frisch as its salaried director. In short, Mr Frisch was there promoting not only what he presumably believed, but was also there, in every sense of the word, as a professional lobbyist for that legislation.

This allowed the listener to differentiate him from me as a retired private citizen with nothing more to gain from the passage of Prop23, than the general wellbeing of California’s economy. Mr Frisch, of course, argued the diametrically opposite position which gave purpose, if not meaning, to the discussion. Through the lens of some special ethic, I have been taken to task by the left, including Mr Frisch, for daring to make that revelation on the air. Their point being that Mr Frisch should have been allowed to pass off to the listener as just another private citizen with deeply held opposing views and gains similar to mine.

TypePad put some your comments into the spam folder, I took them out and published them.

stevenfrisch

Well of course now we have duplicates...I am sorry for that.

I would never have agreed to go on air without identifying my affiliation.....in my world that is required. Paul confirms this in his comments on the stream at the time in his response to Dixon:


Posted by: Dixon Cruickshank | 07 September 2010 at 11:06 PM

"....its just unehthical to have someone paid and/or a benifactor monetarialy to pose as a uninvolved citizen in a debate or disussion without disclosure ..."


Posted by: Paul Emery | 08 September 2010 at 10:20 AM

"You are way out of line here.......I stated very clearly he was with SBC when I introduced the guests.

"Steve Frisch is President and CEO of the Sierra Business Council
A 700 members regional business organization committed to the sustainable future of the Sierra Nevada."

Before you accuse me of shoddy journalism you better take a little time and study the accepted protocols for broadcast journalism. "

George, you violated the agreement, you know you violated the agreement, and you still won't cop to it. I was never passed off as "just another private citizen", although, quite frankly that is what I am. Being an employee of a non profit organization does not make anything other than a private citizen. I am exercising my right to free speech and free association, and as long as I am following the rules set out for managing a 501c3, I don't owe you, or anyone else jack shit just because people who donate to us get to deduct it from their income tax.

stevenfrisch

By the way George who is to say you had nothing to gain from the passage of Prop 23? For all I know you have a million bucks in Valero stock or are a paid blogger by Koch Industries. Why should we take your word for the contention that you have nothing to gain?

Ben Emery

I didn't even read the thread.

Here is the deal. When I first started commenting on RR I was trying to find common ground while trying to promote the left on George's terms. After getting nowhere I figured out I was allowing George to shape the dialogue with his misrepresentation of the issues, straw man arguments. I stopped trying to defend positions that weren't truly mine but a figment of George's imagination. I started calling "conservatives" on RR fascist/ corporatists because that is the truth. I started rejecting the premise of the argument and began to speak the truth about how things work for a vast majority of people in the US and internationally.

The commentary from "conservatives" on RR are racist, corporatist, elitist, and promoters of the establishment interests over the peoples. I don't think any "conservative" on RR would fit into the top elite bracket so I find it puzzling why they take the position of "a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire".

The reason I put "conservative" in quotations every time on RR is I grew up with conservatives who wouldn't even come close to the ideology promoted on RR and its "conservative" participants. The conservatives I grew up with would be called solid left on this blog. I would categorize them as Eisenhower Republicans. The ideology promoted here squarely fits in to the neo-con category, including the faux libertarian Greg G.

Michael Anderson

You know what is incredibly great about this entire discussion? No one under 30 years old could give a rip about what you are talking about. You are DEAD to them.

So continue to have a non-important discussion that achieves the following:

1. It has no value
2. It is irrelevant
3. It makes the new generation roll its eyes
4. They wish you would die sooner rather than later; you are a liability
5. They hate you
6. They put their fingers in their ears and say "la la la" when you talk
7. You actual physical existence annoys them

Deal.

M.

stevenfrisch

Even me Michael?....I am devastated!

Michael Anderson

No, I have heard that you are a Millennial whisperer. So you get a pass (-;

stevenfrisch

George I find it odd that Paul clearly stated that he identified me as the "President and CEO of the Sierra Business Council" and you did not challenge him on that at the time. Could it be that you just conveniently forget. According to Greg being mistaken in ones memory is not the same as lying. After all forgetting and lying are not quite the same thing. So which was it? (See September 2010 thread)

I think I'm waiting for an apology!

I once told you guys how this is done: you say, "I am sorry I was wrong", and I say "Okay, apology accepted."

Bill Tozer

"You may not be able to see the dangle through the fig leaf, but intelligent readers know exactly what George was saying."

Well, I for one never called Comrade Steve a communist. Never did I call that Pinko a Red.

".fear of loss of culture
.....fear of losing your guns
.....fear of loss of language
.....fear of loss of sovereignty
....fear of crime"
Guilty as charged Mr. non-communist pinko. Losing my guns may be on the horizon.
Fear of loss of sovereignty...my, my. Lets count the ways. My friend's son refused to pledge alliance to the UN while he was in the Gulf War. He was almost court marshaled , but stuck to his guns and said he swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States, not the UN. He also was told he was a citizen of Saudi Arabia while there and had papers to prove it. He was sent state side after some conservative bloggers got wind of what the military was doing forcing US soldiers vow allegiance to the Blue Helmets. BTW, those blue helmets always remind me of the old urinal cakes, but I digress once again.

Sovereignty? Isn't that what "local schools" and "local school boards" and local PTAs are all about?
Fear of losing sovereignty? No and I don't give a hoot what France or Sweden or Bolivia thinks of us and how we should be going things.

Fear of crime? Like robbing our children from a decent education free from politically correct agenda. The kids on the school bus make mince meat of that phooney as soon as the school day is over.

Michael Anderson

"I once told you guys how this is done: you say, 'I am sorry I was wrong', and I say 'Okay, apology accepted.'

Never gonna happen with this crowd. The good news is that this crowd is completely irrelevant. They have no value. It is like speaking into the tornado. Fuck 'em.

stevenfrisch

Tozer, I don't really give a shit (test) if George (or you) calls me a communist, its just a cartoon at this point... I do care about him getting away with claiming that in the context of his post he was not implying that supporters of Common Core are communists...and you guys playing along with the insane fiction of that...because it insults the intelligence of everyone here, and anyone else reading. I would care about insulting your intelligence but your clearly have such an intimate knowledge of the inside of an elephants ass (test) that i feel like I can't kick ya' when you're down.

Bill Tozer

Thank you for your kind edifying words Mr. Frisch. I am just too plumb dumb to know what you b speaking of, but I really do appreciate your applause. Made this beautiful morning even better. Thanks again.

As far a communists and the term goes, it is really thrown around too much. I have met a true bone-fide communist here in California. A rare breed. A next door neighbor of a friend. Professor of something at UC Santa Barbara. He had every building inspector shaking in their boots and bending the rules and a most disagreeable lout. He had civil suits against him from many, many quarters. He even sued my friend when my friend was talking to some construction workers on the street and offered them coffee. My friend received a restraining order barring him from talking to the construction crew working on the communist's house. Stranger than fiction.

In court, when the Pinko identified himself, a man in a karate outfit walked up to the the Professor and served him with some papers from a suit back East, lol.

Now, that is the exception, not the rule. Most people mix up Pinkos with Socialists. I know a few who proudly identify themselves as "card carding communists", but are really just liberals. I know some conservatives that confuse commies with liberals and socialists as well.

Me thinks you may be a bit too sensitive to the term "communist." Most communists are either dead or the few remain are hiding in the Ivy covered institutions of higher learning in the Northeast. You live in Nevada County, so I doubt you are a actual pinko in the true sense. Good thing about real communists is they are usually party leaders and have all the perks and privileges that us unwashed masses do not receive. Just like the 1%ers in a capitalistic kind of way (without all the blood, sweat and tears of building a business from the ground up).

Loved your fig leaf reference. Eve wore a fig leaf and Adam wore a hole right through that fig leaf.

Ben Emery

Steve,
I have tried over and over to get someone on RR to explain briefly what is communism. No volunteers, I believe once they actually researched it for 10 seconds they found out what they were told is communist isn't even close. Communism as a form of government has failed on a large scale in every instance. It can and has worked on a small scale very successfully.

Bill Tozer

Leaving communism to its rightful place in the dust bin of history, our educational system is broken to put it briefly. Don't know what the Feds can do about it except throw more money and rules at the problem. Remain satisfied that we passed the point of diminishing returns. "At least we did something" and they all can sleep better at night. Yep, that will solve the problem.

I see little in Common Core that will start the trend line moving upward, but I suppose if you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what your getting. You walk 20 miles into the woods, you gotta walk 20 miles out.

Perhaps some will say "it can't hurt." Fair enough. Saw this article and it is eerily reminiscent of our Common public school educational system.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/06/21/study-govt-losing-billions-on-inefficient-tax-subsidies-that-dont-curb-climate/

George Rebane

BenE 702am - communism is defined in this blog's glossary, the question of sufficient attributes to use a label has been thoroughly aired here, as also have the scales at which collectivism (of which communism is subset) works and breaks down. That you don't find everything you happen to think about on the current page or ongoing comment stream may not be the weakness you see in others. But sure makes reasoned conversation with you nigh on impossible.

Gregory

By Frisch's own standards, he's lying about the definition of lying I presented. Regarding my apology for an error in recollection, no, it wasn't accompanied by the groveling you'd like to see, and won't. Regarding Common Core and climate change, the devil is in the details, and science lessons aligning with CCSS are all in the AGW camp. Here's one that, to the developers, probably looks to be balanced but is based on a straw man:
"Explain to students that there are generally two schools of thought regarding
climate change: One is that the Earth’s climate is being dangerously influenced by human actions; the second is that any signs of climate change are part of the Earth’s natural cycle and that there is nothing we can or should do about that."

That *isn't* the argument of the scientists on the side of skepticism, and that lesson is designed to lead kids to decide to believe in catastrophic CC.


I see Ben has lectured us about what he thinks communism is, and thinks everyone he disagrees with has only spent about 10 seconds thinking about the subject.

Finally, George, more aligned with the Common Core subject, here's a brand new NY Times article that is perhaps the best argument I've ever seen, a fortuitous collaboration between a professor of philosophy and a professor of mathematics.

This deserves a thread all of its own:
"The Faulty Logic of the ‘Math Wars’"
http://nyti.ms/10oXdUj

One aside that pops out that speaks to the Common Core claims of traditional math teaching:
"Reformists sometimes try to claim as their own the idea that good math instruction shows students why, and not just that, algorithms work. This is an excellent pedagogical precept, but it is not the invention of fans of reform math. Although every decade has its bad textbooks, anyone who takes the time to look at a range of math books from the 1960s, 70s or 80s will see that it is a myth that traditional math programs routinely overlooked the importance of thoughtful pedagogy and taught by rote."

stevenfrisch

Hey Greg, could you please cite the specific place in the Common Core guidelines that you found the following:

"Explain to students that there are generally two schools of thought regarding
climate change: One is that the Earth’s climate is being dangerously influenced by human actions; the second is that any signs of climate change are part of the Earth’s natural cycle and that there is nothing we can or should do about that."

I like to try to cite my sources, as I did above, so the reader can go read it in its original context and make their own judgement.

stevenfrisch

It is no surprise to me that you do not know how to apologize Greg.

Just to be clear, when one repeats misinformation, after being called on it several times or being present in threads where it has been called out several times over the past 3 years, and you don't go back to the source information to check your accuracy, it is no mistake...it is a bold faced lie.

So, you are a liar. You are not 'mistaken', it is not a 'false recollection', it is a persistently repeated lie. And that fact that you are so small that you don't know how to apologize when proven false, just confirms to every reader here what a pathetic excuse for a man you are.


Russ Steele


Let's see now. If we combine this argument "Explain to students that there are generally two schools of thought regarding climate change: One is that the Earth’s climate is being dangerously influenced by human actions; the second is that any signs of climate change are part of the Earth’s natural cycle and that there is nothing we can or should do about that." Then we add in the Common Core reading list that promotes AGW across the board with with stories about the poor polar bears and Arctic melting and the effects of global warming on all animals, students are led down the path that humans are responsible for climate change. The idea of natural cycles gets lost in the propaganda for AGW. I did not find any books on the reading list that promoted natural climate cycles. If I over looked some please let me know where I have gone astray.

stevenfrisch

I don't know Russ, perhaps YOU COULD PROVIDE US WITH A LINK TO THE READING LIST YOU ARE REFERRING TO? Then we might be able to actually see what you are referring to in its original form!

I have the Appendix to Common Core that covers some suggested texts right here:

http://www.corestandards.org/assets/Appendix_B.pdf

It might be worth noting that these are EXAMPLES of the types of reading a teacher may want to use, they are not REQUIREMENTS for what reading teachers must use.

stevenfrisch

Just for giggles here again is the link to the Citizens United Against Common Core web site promoted by Ms. Orlean Koehle, who will be CAPRO's speaker on Wednesday. I note that I cannot find anywhere on that site where they link to the specific components of Common Core that they find either inaccurate or objectionable. Much like the writers here there seems to be a disconnect between the actual original texts and the objections.

There does seem to be a proclivity in all of these connected 'freedom' efforts to use BOLD TEXT, the color RED, dark backgrounds, and very large FONT. It is kind of funny when one switches back and forth between the "Constitutional Sheriffs", "CABPRO", "Freedom Advocates", "Defend Rural America", "Democrats Against Agenda 21", "Nevada County Tea Party Patriots" and others to see the common web design theme....

Of course there are the obligatory and interchangeable references to Nazism, Socialism and Communism.....

http://cuacc.org

stevenfrisch

"The following text samples primarily serve to exemplify the level of complexity and quality that the Standards require all students in a given grade band to engage with. Additionally, they are suggestive of the breadth of texts that stu- dents should encounter in the text types required by the Standards. The choices should serve as useful guideposts in helping educators select texts of similar complexity, quality, and range for their own classrooms. They expressly do not represent a partial or complete reading list."--Common Core Appendix B.

I don't know how much clearer one could be.

George Rebane

Gregory 830am - Thanks for that NYT article, it is an important read. I don't want to retrace here what my preferred curricular sequence is for K-12, but it does seem that the author, apparently not a mathematician in any sense, misses a key attribute of algorithmics and the benefits of its early introduction.

The simple truth of algorithmics - be it in math or in how to field dress a buck - is that algorithms beget algorithms. And the adoption and transmittal of algorithms is central to all human advancement. This is a summary handout of what I taught my students in a critical thinking course for journalists some years back and then reapplied at my last whirl in industry.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2007/12/its-all-in-the.html

Gregory

I see Frisch is still trying to redefine what a "lie" is.


"A lie is a false statement to a person or group made by another person or group who knows it is not the whole truth, intentionally."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie

My strong but false recollection was that you hadn't been identified as the President of the SBC and was quick to retract it when you produced the link.

The reason I had such a strong memory of it being hidden is probably that in the blog discussion that followed, you did follow your usual big lie of ommission... claiming you were just a concerned citizen paying attention to politics like the rest of us, conveniently hiding the fact that part of your business included profiting from carbon regulations.

"a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission

So Steve, you're a liar?

Gregory

George, the cited co-author is a respected mathematician at Johns Hopkins who became interested in K-12 curriculums when he found his incoming students were lacking adequate preparation.

While I appreciate your thoughts on algorithms, I don't think the article was especially flawed for not dwelling on them in the same fashion. In the context of K-12 math, "algorithms" means actually being able to add, subtract, multiply and divide integers, decimals and fractions efficiently with what most parents would recognize as the methods they were taught. Elegant methods that are taught because they work. And, if I may use a phrase most would agree with, "It is easier to understand multiplication if you can multiply than if you can't."


stevenfrisch

Greg, nice of you to ignore that this issue has come up on numerous other occasions and that I have said the same thing each time...I do not hide who I am.

Frankly, I don't believe that you were ignorant [although I find it very easy to believe that you are usually ignorant]. I think you are a liar, who is so focused on responding to people with vitriol that you would stop at nothing, not even debasing your own ethics, to make a point.

The bottom line is I consistently kick your ignorant but on the issues we debate so you have to resort to motive, salary, changing the subject or arcane claims I am somehow breaking the rules.

Every reader note: neither Greg, George or Russ has come up with a single specific sourced instance where they disagree for cause with Common Core. The ONLY one on this blog who has provided sourced information and specific links to specific portions of Common Core is me.

Ask yourselves why they cannot cite specifics? Go read the individual portion of Common Core yourselves and ask if you think they are appropriate.

This is a stalking horse; a right wing meme; another ploy by the perpetrators of fear to whip up public sentiment to their advantage. This is propaganda...pure and simple.

George Rebane

Gregory 120pm - Well taken, thanks Greg. My 957am failed to include some heartening experiences I've had with kids under 10 (including my own) relating to algorithmics, which I'm sure you also have shared. Invariably a very important light bulb goes off in their little heads when they realize how a common task can be seen as an algo, then more importantly, recognized as not necessarily being the best possible algo - thereby inviting more algorizing to gain improvement that often can be made into a challenging and enlightening game.

And once that light goes on, they never look at the world in a fixed 'you gotta do it like this, cause this is how it's always been done' way again. For me the classic example was the young smart-ass Gauss being assigned the problem of adding up the first 100 integers in order to shut him up for a while.

stevenfrisch

Ok, it has been several hours, so why can't Russ source his information? Because he knows that if we dig into it we will find out that it is not Common Core. Russ is also lying.

The text that Russ posted is from a third party text and on line learning publishing company based in Chicago named Common Ground Publishing.

http://commongroundpublishing.com

Common Ground Publishing partnered with the University of Illinois to create an on-line tool called Scholar.

http://learning.cgscholar.com

In one of Scholar's on-line learning modules they posit the question Russ linked to above :

"Explain to students that there are generally two schools of thought regarding climate change: One is that the Earth’s climate is being dangerously influenced by human actions; the second is that any signs of climate change are part of the Earth’s natural cycle and that there is nothing we can or should do about that."

…..and asks students to write an argument addressing the question "Should we (humans) change our habits because we are influencing the Earth’s climate?

In the article supporting the 'con' case on taking action to mitigate climate change the article provided also includes this text, "The myth of global warming has been propagated by scientists focused on sounding alarms without data to substantiate their positions. Unfortunately, proposed ‘solutions’ to global warming will have devastating effects on the global economy.'

https://assess-as-you-go.education.illinois.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ArgumentProject.pdf

In the learning module they identify how this exercise meets Common Core Standards by meeting several of the learning objectives, including this one for Grades 11-12, "Write arguments to support claims in an analysis of substantive topics or texts, using valid reasoning and relevant and substantial evidence."

In short, Common Core does not posit the answer, it asks students to write the argument and back it up with reasoning and facts. That is it. Thus the only connection between Common Core and the exercise is that it aligns with one of the requirements of Common Core Standards, a 'reasoned argument'.

The content of the exercise is the product of a third party publishing company, is not a part of Common Core, and the only Common Core purpose it satisfies is the ability to make a reasoned argument.

But Russ is taking language from something that is not Common Core and passing it of as if it is. Russ is perpetrating a logical fallacy; saying that if something satisfies one of the goals of a thing, it is that thing, the classic "Correlation Proves Causation" fallacy. Greek philosophers would be rolling in their tombs.

It is distantly possible that Russ did not know the source of his quote, that he took it from someone else's talking points without doing any real work to know that what he was saying was true...you know, the IGNORANCE defense...but I find that very hard to believe. After all Russ is a BIG BRAIN, he would never do that!

I don't know about anyone else, but I would call that a LIE.


stevenfrisch

Hey George, either my response to Greg about 30 minutes ago went to your holding folder, or you are censoring me because I am winning, which is it? :)

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 208pm - thanks for the reminder. Typepad stuck it in spam.

I guess my pointing out the teaching of algebra aspect was insufficient. And I would add Greg's comments on the treatment of algorithmics. But the bottom line for opposing Common Cause is still that CC's new minimum requirements will define the new bureaucratic norm (if that), and that its being imposed by the central planners is a no starter for those of us attempting to promote better locally controlled schools.

You can bet that there will be more detritus coming down the pike with Common Core (as with Obamacare, Frank-Dodd, AB32, etc), but we'll have to leave that to when CC is implemented. It will be interesting to see how the rewritten CC-compliant tests turn out.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 23 June 2013 at 02:42 PM

Thanks for taking the "Posted by: stevenfrisch | 23 June 2013 at 01:22 PM" out of purgatory.

Doesn't the state already set minimum requirements under the THE STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION, CHAPTER 0520-1-3.o5, MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THE APPROVAL OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS, STATE CURRICULUM ?

Doesn't that already set a norm?

If the case is that the Federal norm is too low, isn't that the case you should be making?

If the case you are making is that educational curriculum should be solely controlled at the local level, and local schools should be solely managed at the school district level, then you should make it.

I have no beef with you making either of these case; at least it is the straight case.

I have a problem with the strategy of attacking Common Core as the culprit, when the real issue is the fundamental structure of educational administration and finance or the quality of the norms. This is how we create gridlock in our system--we attack the messenger or the example, like Common Core, instead of addressing the real issue, federalism in education--and everyone suffers stalemate.

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 304pm - Well said, but I have been attacking federalism in education all these years. Common Core is just latest and most robust embodiment of it, so it indeed is the message and not merely the messenger. I'm sorry that I have not said it well enough for you to understand.

Gregory

Golly, Steven Frisch just can't get over that L word. Like a 3 year old repeating a word that they just like the sound of. Not exactly normal behavior for a 6 figure CEO of one of Nevada County's 501c3 'charities'.

Frisch, if I "lied", sue me. See if you get any responsible adults to agree with your interpretation.

Perhaps this might get to some interesting information... when you were crisscrossing the state lobbying against Prop 23 (for the moment we'll accept the claim it was mostly on your own time even if you were always identified as the CEO of a 501c3), just what percentage of the time did you inform your audience your salary would be partially covered by carbon rents that were in jeopardy if Prop 23 passed?

stevenfrisch

This is where you are just full of crap, Greg....first, I am allowed under my 501c3 charter to spend time advocating on public issues...the question is how much time...is it a substantial part of our time or income allocated to issues advocacy...and the answer is/was no.. the standard is less than 20% in most cases....and as I stated it was less than 1-2%....second, we have never sold a carbon allowance, so the answer is ZERO % of my income has come from carbon allowances....but if it did that would be perfectly legal and ethical as well..and we have sold none since Prop 23 failed...so the answer is still ZERO....finally, I made no bones about our organizational mission and scope of work, in fact I stated it proudly at every public meeting I attended.

You want to do something about it big man, file a friggin' complaint...no one but you gives a darn.

And I think I proved pretty conclusively that you lied....and now you are changing your tune...first I was hiding my affiliation....when I proved you lied about that now you are claiming I stated my affiliation...that is the problem with a serial liar....they can never keep their story straight.

stevenfrisch

And finally the real issue comes out ....government is too big...its not that there is anything wrong with the content of Common Core...it is that government is too big...so all the huffing and puffing and comparing Common Core to Nazis is just a screen for the real issue...government is just too big...and the posters here are stamping their feet like a bunch of babies...and obstructing what anyone else wants to do by throwing the kitchen sink at an issue rather than digging in and making the real case. Typical.

stevenfrisch

By the way, you never answered my question Greggy, who broke Goodwin's Law?

stevenfrisch

Oh and another thing, I never saw you at one of those forums, Greg. Where were you? Trolling blogs and raising hell? As Woody Allen said, "80% of life is showing up".

Bill Tozer

Government is too big is a problem. Finding excellent education in our public schools is a critical mass problem.

Its not just Common Core as written. Its what is not written and how it is applied. Just like our current President and many people in power from various and sundry walks of life. Do we judge them on what they say or judge them on what they do. By their intentions or by their actions?

It is prudent and wise to look at the actions that have played out through history, especially the last 50 years. Its probably a safe bet to assume no malice is written into Common Core's agenda as such. However, we have been taken down this road before when a department is set up and the administrative rules, regulations, and tactics go far beyond the letter of the law. Take the EPA as one little example. Half the time what we now assume is the law is just some bureaucrat's new regs.

Thus, I am suspicious of what Common Core will morph into beyond what is now written of a piece of paper.

Many folks who love Obama's words are disillusioned by his actions. Many cling to his speeches and dismiss his actions out of hand because the words speak to their hearts. Others judge him by his intentions and absolve his actions. A small example.

The public education of our children has failed the taxpayer, the parents, the nation, and most important of all, the student. Our students. Our future, and their future. Their future is not our future.

Not so hidden agendas and actions by various educators (who could not land a job making P&J sandwiches in other fields) raise my radar. Yes, I have ample distrust of our government coupled with most government programs. And for good reason. Its just too darn big and inefficient and many times counterproductive.

Send a white kid to college in the 60's and he comes back a Black Panther. Best education money can buy.

Gregory

Where was I when the SBC NH2020 delphi dog and pony show sessions were in full swing? My wife was dying and I was taking care of her and our son, and then just my son, along with being a full time senior engineer at Cisco. I did find out all I needed to know about them, so did everyone else.

Regarding your 'proof', if you redefine words or accept logical fallacies, you can prove 2+2=5, and that's pretty much what you did.
The serial 'lie' remains one error, acknowledged and retracted. Much ado about nothing, but it's the only error you've caught me on. Enjoy the moment.

Regarding your claims to always having been open about your mission at SBC, the one thing we have in print (thanks for the link
http://www.theunion.com/news/2285939-113/opinion-editorials-opinionivg ), you didn't disclose to The Union readers, and you left it for me to disclose to the other commenters when you tried to portray yourself as a disinterested party. Forgive me if I take your recollections for all those other lobbying stops with a grain of salt.

Now to change the subject... has everyone seen that according to the Danish Meteorological Institute, it's the coldest start to the arctic summer since they've been monitoring temperature north of the 80th parallel? 55 years.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Just weather, but if it was the warmest start to the summer of the arctic instrumental record, it would be reported as climate.

stevenfrisch

Wow Greg, for a guy who prides himself on being a 'scientist' and his Cartesian and empirical world view, you really are all over the map.

When I said you were no where to be seen, I did not mean in 2001 when you may have been dealing with your own personal tragedy, I meant 2010 when the debate over Proposition 23 was occurring and which you are now commenting on ex post facto. I was in the arena in 2010 debating a critical public policy issue and you were in your easy chair eating hot pockets.

Although you may say that your oft previously corrected error is 'much ado about nothing', a careful reading of your posts would actually show that my lack of appropriate 'disclosure' is central to your case; a case you made without engaging in the very 'science' you claim to value, by simply checking the record, or the testimony of those present, such as Paul Emery who was there and took George to task at the time.

In addition, you have constantly failed to prove your other main point, that there is something inherently wrong or unethical about my behavior, that having a purported 'stake in the outcome' [even though I have never personally benefitted from that stake] disqualifies one from commenting on or participating in a public policy issue. If that were indeed the case then property owners could not comment on zoning or property taxes, parents could not comment on education and the regulated could not comment on regulation. I state at every opportunity what the position and scope of work of my organization is; our work is both public record and a source of pride. I should state clearly, if my organization could benefit from the failure of Prop 23 I would happily do so. We live in the world as it is, and 'policy' is a framework through which ALL of us live and work.

By the way, I challenge you to actually show where and when I ever said I was a 'disinterested party'. I have never commented on any public policy issue where I believe myself to be 'disinterested'; I comment when I am interested. What I remember was portraying myself as just another regular guy, a citizen, a member of the public. And that is exactly what I am. My particular status as an employee of a 501c3 does not make me anything more than a regular guy. In the good old USA every regular guy has a chance to exercise their first amendment rights to free speech and association and participate in our democracy. Rather than embracing that as a principle that makes our nation great you are seeking to vilify that behavior as the mark of Cain.

It is clear to me that you sir are no scientist, you are actually a rather emotional and unbalanced man, aren't you? Your pursuit of this point, and indeed the tone that you use in conversation with almost anyone who you have a logical or issues based disagreement with, is personal, grudging, and pathological.

I actually pity your loss and personal tragedy. But that does not countenance public behavior that is uncivil and disingenuous. When someone tells boldfaced lies about a matter of public record I feel compelled to correct the record, especially when motivated by pathological malicious intent.

I believe I will now spend me week in the arena, instead of the wallowing in the Aegean stable.

stevenfrisch

Substitute 'consistently' for 'constantly' in the fourth paragraph and 'my' for 'me' in the final sentence. I-pad fingers.

Gregory

"It is clear to me that you sir are no scientist, you are actually a rather emotional and unbalanced man, aren't you?"

There you go again. Sorry, Steve, I'm not the one behaving like Ahab here.

Russ Steele

Massive Fail: Teaching Instruction An “Industry Of Mediocrity”
National Council on Teacher Quality has called U.S. colleges of education an “industry of mediocrity” that churns out ill-prepared and under-qualified teachers.
The Wall Street Journal reported the jaw-dropping statistics: As evidence mounts that teacher quality is one of the biggest determinants of student achievement, critics have complained that teacher-training programs have lax admission standards, scattered curriculum, and fail to give aspiring teachers real-life classroom training. The report echoes the complaints, saying many graduates lack the necessary classroom-management skills and subject knowledge needed. The report contends that it is too easy to get into teacher-preparation programs, with only about a quarter of them restricting admissions to applicants in the top half of their class. The typical grade-point-average to get into undergraduate programs is about 2.5, it said.
The study assigned ratings of up to four stars to 1,200 programs at 608 institutions. Only four were awarded the four-star maximum. Fewer than 10 percent earned three or more stars, 14 percent earned zero stars, and one in seven received less than one star. For these, the NCTQ suggested that potential applicants refrain from applying, because they are “unlikely to obtain much return on their investment.”

And meanwhile, teachers unions ensure that these incompetently prepared people are given lifetime tenure and protected evaluations. So not only are future educators prepared poorly for their jobs, but most receive job protection within one to seven years, consistently avoiding an evaluation that would allow parents to judge their effectiveness.

Details: http://www.the-american-interest.com

Common Core led by an "industry of mediocrity" will not insure that the US remains competitive in the global labor market.

Bill Tozer

Mr Steele. What was it we learned from the OJ Simpson trail? Two important things. What are they? Glad you asked. Both concern our public school educators, their training, and their unions.

1) Garbage in, garbage out.
2) If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.

Joe Koyote

The US is not and will not be competitive in the global labor market. It is easy to blame the educational system in general and teachers in particular. One principle of general systems theory is called "multiple causation". meaning that no problem has just one cause. While many posters in here see education as the problem and technology as the solution, I see technology as one of the causes. How many of you have tried to communicate in a classroom full of kids texting, playing games on their phones or managing their facebook accounts? The top two career aspirations of young Americans are celebrity and sports star. You don't need much for brains or education to do either, just ask the Kardashians. Is this the fault of our education system or a marketing system that panders garbage and gizmos in the name of "cool". You can't teach children who are more interested in 15 minutes of fame then they are in algebra. This is a widespread cultural problem that is affecting education not the other way around.

TheMikeyMcD

"Those who put their trust in government get what they deserve"

Joe Koyote

“the Fatherland is the parent"-- Very true.. and it is just as true for conservative thought as it is for modern thought. We are all products of an educational system that passes on the dominant cultural values. Values are changing and the good ole white boys free market consumer culture of the past is changing with the population of America. Education reflects that, for better or for worse.

One principle of general systems theory is multiple causation. There is no single cause for any problem but always multiple intertwined causes. Blaming education and teachers is short sighted. Any discussion of education has to include cultural values as well. The most often cited career goals of American children are either sports star or celebrity. These are not brainiac occupations; just ask the Kardashians. Some of the posters act as if every child should have a passion for math and computers and it’s the teachers’ fault that this isn’t true. How does one interest a child in math when they are more concerned with facebook than school? How do you get a child interested in school when their idols are half naked bimbos prancing around on a stage lip synching bad songs? How do you teach a child science when they have no interest? Our total media infused culture tells our children that the only thing that matters is being cool. The media moguls don’t care if your child is stupid or not as long as they buy the products they are hawking.

Joe Koyote

re: 10:02 -- I apologize if there are two similar posts, I thought the first one got lost.

George Rebane

JoeK 1204pm - Joe, I apologize. TypePad put both your 1002am and 1143am in spam. I fished them out and published them, and I'll leave both up there since they're slightly different. Please let me know right away if one of your comments goes missing; TypePad is fu@#g up royally and claims to be working on the problem. As always, for insurance compose your lengthier comments in your own text editor and paste them into the comment box. Thanks again for your patience.

Russ Steele

JoeK@10:02

I agree, the US will never be competitive on labor rates, but we are losing the battle in the global market of ideas and innovation. That said, we have a very dismal future if our education systems can not produce employees that are capable of meeting the minimum demands of US industries. The systems is currently incapable of meeting the demand of our high tech industry, we have to import them for abroad, or recruit foreign students coming our of our best universities. According to UC Admission Offices, about 30% of US students cannot pass the entry exams and require remedial classes. This is especially true in math and science. Running an industry with a 30% reject rate would soon be out of business. Why do we put up with an education system that has such a high reject rate?

Gregory

Koyote, when former GVSD superintendent Jon Byerrum was gutting the schools in Grass Valley, removing phonics, pouring whole language and later whole math into the curriculum, it was before kids had the internet as most know it. In '97, when the 3rd graders at Hennessey were tested and half were found to be in the bottom quartile in math and language, it's likely none of those kids had yet gone online.

It's both the quality of the teachers and the quality of the curriculums, but I'd argue the pedagogy of whole language and whole math, based on what is known as "constructivism" or "discovery learning", is particularly destructive, as the pace of actual learning is excruciatingly slow and error prone.

Think Socratic Method, only without Socrates.

I don't blame the schools for turning out some kids who won't be scientists or engineers; I blame the schools that turn out kids who, on the whole, are not proficient at their grade level, with none of them eventually able to enroll at a UC or CSU and get a degree in math or science within 4 years of their high school graduation.

My kid did OK but it took a chunk of money and a lot of heartache to make sure his education in Nevada County would not hobble his choices of colleges or courses of study.

Gregory

Folks in Thousand Oaks (SoCal) held a Common Core forum, link below. I'm familiar with two of the panelists, Massachusetts' Dr. Sandra Stotsky, and the Hoover Institution's Bill Evers, both of whom I have high regard for regarding quality educational standards.

The panelists start at 0:10:05 with Evers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-TDpxh0OYM

Joe Koyote

Gregory 1:57 -- There might not have been internet and cell phones as we now know it in 1997, but there was broadcast TV, cable, and MTV, etc. These are still the primary marketing tools to children not the internet, yet. If one looks at TV programming and society, they often have a lot in common. Back in the 50’s & 60’s TV was littered with lawyer shows and now we have a glut of lawyers many of whom have to resort to ambulance chasing to make a living. Now we have reality shows featuring people that do next to nothing and are more stupid than rocks. What kind of role models do they make?

During my lifetime there has been a continuous dumbing down of the population that has coincided with the rise of mass media. Our children are being distracted. Some people want to blame the teachers, I blame the media. Teachers aren’t in our homes all day and all night everyday of the year. The boob tube is and they don't call it the boob tube for nothing.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Koyote has a valid point. We have gone from "Father Knows Best", "Ozzie and Harriet", and "My Three Sons" to "Married with Children", "Family Guy" and "American Dad". Today's father figures and others in authority are portrayed as bumbling boobs.

This mindset gets transferred of course to teachers, policemen and others in authority over our youth. Even the store clerk gets treated disrespectfully at times.

Once met a third grade teacher before an outing to the fire station. She introduced herself by her first name in front of my children and young school age children. I said you are Ms. Who? She replied in her first name again. I repeated saying you are Miss or Mrs. Who?" She rolled her eyes and said "Alright then, Miss Smith." If she allows her pupils to call her by her first name, then she loses control and her rightful authority over them as their teacher. She is not their friend or companion. She is their teacher, not some bumbling boob portrayed on the Tellie. Yes, teachers are the new Rodney Dangerfield, along with Dad's and the mail carrier.

Full disclosure: I have never been employed by the US Post Office, nor ever been a mail carrier, but I have been disgruntled a time or two.

Gregory

OK, time to tackle Steven Frisch's defamations here. No, I'm not a liar and Steve is mischaracterizing my past statements.

"Just to be clear, when one repeats misinformation, after being called on it several times or being present in threads where it has been called out several times over the past 3 years, and you don't go back to the source information to check your accuracy, it is no mistake...it is a bold faced lie.

So, you are a liar. You are not 'mistaken', it is not a 'false recollection', it is a persistently repeated lie. And that fact that you are so small that you don't know how to apologize when proven false, just confirms to every reader here what a pathetic excuse for a man you are."

Now, what in fact was I writing three years ago?

"Steve, you seem to have a hard time posting without resorting to expletives or crude caricatures, misspelled or not, or translated into another language, though I will agree you do have thicker skin than Pelline.

I can't be interested in your so-called truce while I am barred from Pelline's blog for posting more respectfully than Pelline ever does here or at Steele's. I believe you took a special dislike to me when I didn't let you get away with describing yourself on The Union blogs as just a regular guy without conflicts of interest while, on Prop 23 and AB32, you were (and are) a walking, talking conflict of interest as President of the truly misleadingly named Sierra Business Council."
26 November 2010 at 10:59 PM

http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/11/the-latest-volley-from-the-local-left.html

My statement three years ago, and my repetition of it in the meantime was true and remains true. That it got conflated with a claim (the power of suggestion) the op-ed didn't identify your SBC is unfortunate, but it remains that your (Steven Frisch) serial lying-by-omission is nearly as despicable as your serial defamation of the character of others.

You were representing yourself as a regular guy, like another blogger commenting, and not someone in the business of profiting from regulations. You see Steve, most people don't look beyond the name of your company and think it really might be a council of businesses in the Sierra Nevada rather than a company that, amongst other tasks, sells environmental indulgences


Gregory

"When someone tells boldfaced lies about a matter of public record I feel compelled to correct the record, especially when motivated by pathological malicious intent." -Frisch

Steven Frisch, it's time for you to retract your boldfaced lies and curb your own malicious intent. You now are faced with a citation of what I was writing three years ago that got your undies in a knot, and it had nothing to do with the recent error that crept in. In that The Union blog discussion you did portray yourself as just a regular guy (like the fellow you were engaging at the time) who tries to keep informed. No, until I outed you as an engaged professional with a vested interest in Prop 23 being defeated, neither that guy nor many others participating knew your business was related to the Proposition you were lobbying against.

Russ Steele

Common Core Science - Earth and Space Science


The chapter dealing with Earth and Space Sciences is found from pages 169 to 201. The coverage is cursory due to the shortness of the material. “Part ESS3.D: Global Climate Change” covers global warming from pages 196-199. The coverage mentions computer models which are used for predicting future climate and weather conditions for the planet. There is insufficient attention paid to the reality that all computer models fail to replicate what happens in the future when data for comparison is unavailable.

In my opinion, the models should not be used for policy purposes and should not be included in K-12 education materials because our understanding of forces influencing climate is incomplete and many of the models have failed to be validated. Material in the book does not make this clear.

The material states that carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels is causing global warming, which is a highly controversial topic. Three references are cited at the end of the discussion. One is the 2009 report by the United States Global Change Research Project which contains frightening predictions for the future of the world due to global warming caused by burning fossil fuels. A revision of this report is scheduled for publication later this year that portrays an even grimmer future.

Your children and grand children are being spoon fed scientific crap.

Bill Tozer

No profit, no jobs anyway you slice and dice it. At least Wal-Mart and Amazon have stuck around longer than the worm farm primarily because their mind boggling state of the art machine driven distribution system. Gives them an edge, a big edge.

No profit, no jobs. Low skills, low jobs. Low demand, less workers as well. High demand, better skilled workers.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/siemens-cut-1-700-jobs-151445364.html
.

Gregory

Russ, thanks for digging that out, as it pointed out good search terms for the original documentation:

ESS3D:
"By the end of grade 12.
Global climate models are often used to understand the process of climate change because these changes are complex and can occur slowly over Earth’s history. Though the magnitudes of humans’ impacts are greater than they have ever been, so too are humans’ abilities to model, predict, and manage current and future impacts. Through computer simulations and other studies, important discoveries are still being made about how the ocean, the atmosphere, and the biosphere interact and are modified in response to human activities, as well as to changes in human activities. Thus science and engineering will be essential both to understanding the possible impacts of global climate change and to informing decisions about how to slow its rate and consequences—for humanity as well as for the rest of the planet."
pg 196
A FRAMEWORK FOR K-12 SCIENCE EDUCATION
Practices, Crosscutting Concepts, and Core Ideas

Committee on a Conceptual Framework for New K-12 Science Education Standards
Board on Science Education
Division of Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education
http://nap.edu/download.php?record_id=13165

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