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06 June 2013

Comments

Walt

I heard about the County yard sale gestapo. I just didn't hear which
division she was from. Did that get addressed at the meeting?

( Mamma is doing MUCH better. And no "yomammacare" from the gov.)
At home and healing fast The family buzzards will have to wait a lot longer.

Russ Steele

The last General Planning Update was created under the thumb and guidance of the Green Gang of Four Supervisors, who were into sustainability big time, all with out mention Agenda 21 which was just emerging from the UN chrysalis. This planning update will be under the guidance of a relatively conservative BoS. However, many members of the current BoS have tried to void addressing the Agenda 21 issues, that seem to have been embraced by the Gang of Four. Now the question is how will citizens react, now that Agenda 21 has become a major issue in Nevada County.

Russ Steele

A little humor from Steven Goddard:

White House Releases Their List Of Terrorists

• Veterans
• People with Ron Paul bumper stickers
• People who openly support the US Constitution
• Anyone who uses the Internet
• Anyone who uses a telephone

Fortunately, DHS has prepared for this terrorism by purchasing 1.6 billion rounds of ammo. Enough to easily take care of all 350 million terrorists in the US.

Paul Emery

George

What exactly is the problem you have with “sustainable” things? Seems like a good idea to me especially as compared to "unsustainable" things.

Ben Emery

Sustainable = Agenda21, capiche? Our federal government has gone to the dark side of "the ends justify the means" and it is hammering all of us. The two parties need to be challenged and it is only up to us to do it. Vote for anybody other than a D or an R and we will see better things coming from our capital cities.

George Rebane

PaulE 1040pm - I answered that several posts ago.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/05/agenda21-the-beat-grows-stronger.html?cid=6a00e54f86f2ad883301901c98e35f970b#comment-6a00e54f86f2ad883301901c98e35f970b

Ben Emery

George,
I guess you just like to use straw men arguments about the left.

"NPR continues its coverage of Holder, DOJ assault on journalists, and IRS political targetings. Again they seem not to have gotten the word from their leftwing thought leaders here in Nevada County, those who tell us daily that the Obama scandals make no never mind, and are already relegated to the dustbin of history. Perhaps our locals should send NPR an email or two for a heads up on the error of their ways."

What has been said on RR by the "leftwing" is that these so called scandals are political stunts trying to pin something onto President Obama and the proof of this is the silence by republicans when past administrations done very similar things. I have said many times here and have given many many links from the left that agree the Obama administration is riddled with illegal behavior. Behavior and policies that were opposed vehemently during the Bush years. What hypocrites!!!

Now we have PRISM coming out that was once again started during the Bush administration but the only difference it appears is was illegal under Bush and over the last 4 years it has been made legal to spy on Americans.

The time to eat crow has come for both republicans and democrats so we can put a stop to this authoritarian form of government going any further.

What we are learning through leaks is bad enough just imagine how bad it gets with the things we don't know.

George Rebane

BenE 730am - I didn't say it well enough for you to understand. The topic was the whether or not these scandals are significant enough to continue being investigated and covered by the media, NOT the degree of their legality or past histories.

Paul Emery

Russ

Just because a speaker for pay bookseller drew a couple hundred to the Vets Hall for one night stand doesn't mean AG21 is a major issue. I would venture to say support for that notion has declined since those notions have been brought to light. Not many people really can equate bike lanes to UN takeover of land use.

George

What do we exactly have here for scandals. A State Department-CIA pissing match (Benghazi), intelligence gathering and intrusion that has birpartisan support and is probably legal and the IRS debacle which has legs and will end with the same ol Republican perfected "plausible deniability" counter. When you have indictments and arrests of senior staffers and cabinet members such as in Iran Contra and Watergate then you have a scandal. The Democrats are just not that good at it.

Douglas Keachie

Holder probably feels just like the 2nd kid in this video: http://www.upworthy.com/know-anyone-that-thinks-racial-profiling-is-exaggerated-watch-this-and-tell-me-when-your-jaw-drops-2?c=ufb1

Gregory

10:16 It crawled back. Did it get the invitation it assured us would be needed for it to want to post here again?

"Sustainable" is dog whistle for anthropogenic global warming, no matter who uses it. Agenda 21 isn't the organizing principle, AGW is.

The voices are getting more shrill. Eric Schmidt at Google is calling folks who dispute the message "liars", all the while all of the models the alarm is based upon have departed from reality.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/06/still-epic-fail-73-climate-models-vs-measurements-running-5-year-means/

When AGW fails as a rallying call, all that depends upon it will fail. Worrying about yet another UN agenda to take our guns or fluoridate our water is a waste of time.

Russ Steele

Paul,

Lets see, we heard from CABPRO at the Vets Hall that was cross scheduled with other conservative events. The Tea Party has come out against Agenda 21, and at one time the e-mail list had 2,600 address on it, I have no idea if it is more or less today. The Republican Women Federated came out against Agenda 21, there was over 150 at a recent event. During the NH2020 the Contractor Association was against the sustainability effort enforced by more rules and regulations, I have not heard how they stand on Agenda 21, but they are against more land use restrictions which are prompted by Agenda 21. Most people are fed up with government intruding in their lives, and the General Plan update is a good opportunity for them to express their views. Buckle your seat belts, this is going to be bumpy ride.

George Rebane

Gregory 1049am - I forget the particulars of DougK's last departure (so many go and come), but his spontaneous and well-bahaved return may contribute to the debates, or at least illuminate them.

Greg, your "organizing principle" comment about A21 intrigues. As I've stated beyond counting, A21 serves best as the most visible and acknowledged initiative to collect a group of objectives/goals for a preferred future of how mankind should inhabit the earth. Therefore it is only an ideology with enough structure to serve as a convenient label and checklist for the multitude of national, regional, and local initiatives that also serve to fulfill its objectives. A21 (hence the UN) has no legal teeth to enforce implementation of its objectives, that is left to codes ranging from national laws to local ordinances. At least that is my understanding, and the sense in which I have argued against an A21-envisioned future.

Whether AGW is more or less of an organizing principle (in a taxonomic sense), I don't know. But I certainly agree that AGW is the clear and present danger invoked by the Left at every turn when they seek to ratchet back another individual freedom or property right. No one invokes 'We should do this or that because it's on the A21 checklist of objectives.'

Todd Juvinall

Russ, don't fret with the PaulE worries about attendance numbers. It is a diversion and my goodness, Americans watch "Dancing with the Stars" in huge numbers over a CSPAN Congressional interrogation of an IRS scofflaw. None of his attempts to diminish the event work except with his like minded libs.

Paul Emery

Well, have a good time with this A21 thing. If you see the same people often enough it seems like a mass movement but in actuality it likely only appeals to the 20% which make up the fringe right even in our Republican County. A21, What a silly diversion.

Gregory

Paul, it isn't paranoia if they really are after you. The UN bureaucracy is like any other... the #1 goal is to insure the bureaucracy grows and prospers so it can do all the great things we know we can do as long as the money spigot keeps flowing, and AGW is the fountainhead. The IPCC was formed to see how bad CO2 was and to get treaties in place to get money from the people who have been burning oil for a century (the 1st world) to give to the folks who want to burn it now. Why else would a rich 3rd world economist head the effort?

The US right has always been wary of any one world government effort but don't realize how ranting about things like Agenda 21 limits their effort to convince the middle.

The motive force pushing "sustainability" is catastrophic AGW. There is no cAGW in the cards, and the other rallying cry, "no blood for oil" is also defunct (not that it was ever accurate) now that the US will be net energy independent in maybe five years and north America will be completely independent in 20.

Wish the Chinese well in their coming dependence on middle eastern oil.

Todd Juvinall

I think as many attended the A21 as listen to KVMR. LOL!

Gregory

" No one invokes 'We should do this or that because it's on the A21 checklist of objectives.'"

That's right. They do it because of climate change, sustainability, global warming. That's the horse pulling the cart. To the extent there are one worlders working behind the scenes to implement "Agenda 21", it's because of AGW. Not that some or all don't have political agendas that are eager to take advantage of AGW, but AGW and shaking down industrialized countries for cash to mitigate all that imagined damage is the key.

Stop the AGW juggernaut and "sustainability" goes away. Out of gas, so to speak :)

Paul Emery

Todd

Let's see, KVMR has 5000 member supporters and an average weekly listeners of 75,000. Half our members are from Nevada County. We have the largest membership of any non profit in Nevada County. What else would you like to know Todd?

Gregory

Paul, not to give Todd aid and comfort when he's being the mirror image of the San Juan troll, but a more fair comparison would be the expected audience for KVMR at the time of the A21 book tour stop.

I suspect the author has sold more than 5000 books.

Joe Koyote

"A21 serves best as the most visible and acknowledged initiative to collect a group of objectives/goals for a preferred future of how mankind should inhabit the earth" How is this any different than the WTO, US Chamber of Commerce, Heritage Foundation or any number of global corporatist organizations that put forth their vision of how man should inhabit the Earth? You can't demonize one without demonizing the other for both are agendas being put forth by someone upon the rest of us, like it or not.

Paul Emery

Yes Gregory no doubt she sells lots of books and she is an effective motivational speaker. As a comparison Max the crystal Skull paid a visit to the Nevada Theatre a couple of years ago and sold out two shows (500 tickets) and was held over for private sessions at $75[half hour for n extra day. In both cases nice work if you can get it.

http://maxskull.net/

George Rebane

JoeK 640pm - I most certainly can demonize the organization(s) and ideologies that militate for a future I consider to be a disaster. You see Joe, I have the ability to discriminate and differentiate (as do you in your better moments) - been doing it all my life. And if you still believe I "can't demonize one without demonizing the other", just watch me.

Joe Koyote

We all demonize that which we disagree with even though that which we condemn holds no higher ground than that which we defend. Who is to say which is right or which is wrong, it is all a matter of perception; how we as individuals seek out and process the information that is "out there." I would think that had I been exposed to the same information as you, I would think along similar lines as would you had you been exposed to the same information I have. My point is that there really is no right or wrong, just different approaches to solving problems and demonizing one point of view over another doesn't solve problems but exacerbates them by creating enemies out of differences of acquired opinion. I know you are familiar with "Getting to Yes",and would agree that taking a position rather than focusing on interests is the wrong approach. The political polarization of America to the degrees we are seeing, seems to be a conscious manipulation and diversion that focuses attention on positions in the same way a magician or pick-pocket works. So, the choices as I see them are either demonize them all or none of them. We live in Oz and the question remains just who is behind the curtain pulling the strings.

Bill Tozer

Paul, I happened to like KVMR bunches and bunches, except when they do that fund raising crap. Then I turn the dial until it is over. Seems to last forever when they go into non-stop begging. Besides that, KVMR is a grand station

George Rebane

JoeK 745pm - When the dust settles, we each have to live in the reality we perceive. It was ever thus.

Unfortunately that often creates conflicts which cannot be resolved by any reachable consensus. Evolution is a process which is mostly like that, even though one can point to examples of symbiosis here and there. But mostly one critter/species/meme/ideology survives, the other flees or perishes.

Michael Anderson

George intoned, "...even though one can point to examples of symbiosis here and there..."

Wow. Here and there? That's it? This is very revealing, George. My own perception is that the whole frickin' PLANET is organized in a MESH of symbiosis.

I guess you missed that whole '60s Love In thing. Oh well. It's never too late. As Chris Towne used to say at the close of every one of his Thursday afternoon shows on KVMR, "We Are All Connected." (-;

Account Deleted

Joe, I'm damn near speechless - "We all demonize that which we disagree with even though that which we condemn holds no higher ground than that which we defend. Who is to say which is right or which is wrong, it is all a matter of perception."

Say what? Maybe you demonize things. I don't 'demonize' anything. I point out problems with faulty logic and explain why stupid people end up in worse shape than more intelligent ones. And you would say that sexual molestation of an innocent child is no better or worse than caring for and educating that child?
There is right and wrong. There is good and evil. I can't claim to have the answer to everything, but I can sure try.
Maybe you need to try that post again and think about what you write first.

Steven Frisch

As David Hannum said of P.T. Barnum, "There is a sucker born every minute." Perhaps in the modern world that would be every 15 seconds, but charlatans like Ms. Koire prove the old adage every time they appear. Anyone can stand in front of an audience and flack a book with unsourced opinion; it takes a researched, sourced, rational debate to truly get to the bottom of any important question in today's world, or to move any but the 'true believer'. Ms. Koire's numbers will have meaning when she is willing to engage in such a discussion. Paul offered her that chance, with an audience of thousands, and my guess is the You Tube version would have been an audience of tens of thousands, and she declined.

Joe Koyote

You demonize me Scott and any other liberal (of which I am not one) that posts ideas with which you disagree. Is not your association with child molestation demonization? By associating my ideas with child molestation you imply that I approve, thus demonizing me and my thoughts. Had you read earlier posts rather than taking the last one out of context, you maybe would have figured out that George and I were discussing sources of information not morality issues. You do a good job of taking snippits our of people's posts and twisting them into attacks that somehow in your mind are not demonization of opposing ideas. Keep up the good work, a divided America is an easier target for the boogie men, divide and conquer!

TheMikeyMcD

To expect men in power to value the personal liberty of their subject is folly, always has been, always will be.
The only solution is less government. Period.

Re: "Sustainability" = everyone has a different definition built on their ideology. Interesting how the left never uses "sustainability" when discussing budget (expense) items :).

TheMikeyMcD

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

Account Deleted

I didn't 'demonize' you, I just pointed out the logical extension of your logic.
Taken out of context? "My point is that there really is no right or wrong, just different approaches to solving problems and demonizing one point of view over another doesn't solve problems but exacerbates them by creating enemies out of differences of acquired opinion."
No right or wrong? I beg to differ.
What is your context? Just information? That's huge field.
"A21 serves best as the most visible and acknowledged initiative to collect a group of objectives/goals for a preferred future of how mankind should inhabit the earth" How is this any different than the WTO, US Chamber of Commerce, Heritage Foundation or any number of global corporatist organizations that put forth their vision of how man should inhabit the Earth? You can't demonize one without demonizing the other for both are agendas being put forth by someone upon the rest of us, like it or not."
Agendas are more than information - yes I did read all of your posts.
You were not just talking about information. You wrote about solving problems and agendas. These things are all about morality when you listen to the Agenda21 supporters. I can only go by what you write.
Demonizing is claiming false association with an adversary to try to debase or demean them. I was merely quoting you and following your logic. I was not trying to claim you were a child molester, or that you condoned such activity, only that you need to see where your logic goes. There is right and wrong - context doesn't enter in.

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