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27 July 2013

Comments

Walt

We are also hearing the people hired by "O" and Co. to help peddle
his snake oil insurance plan can't get the "mandated employer coverage"
because they are being hired @ under the 30 hr. plan.
Over half of the people are "temps".
I wonder if they will even make enough to be able to pay the individual mandated rate.

BTW,,, that's right here in Ca.

Russ Steele

Investor Business Daily: ObamaCare's Success Depends On The Young Being Stupid

How long will it take for the young to figure this out, and tell all their Twitter pals how to game the Obama-Care system?

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/070213-662297-obamacare-gives-young-more-reasons-not-to-buy-coverage.htm#ixzz2aIaWVmDF

I think the really stupid people are the Democratic Congressal members that voted for it in the first place and the Predident that signed it before understanding what was hidden in this thousand page liberal wet dream.

stevenfrisch

Yeah, stupid Sheeple...thats it! Old people know better:)

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 628pm - thank you Steve.

stevenfrisch

Posted by: George Rebane | 27 July 2013 at 10:29 PM

You are going to win a lot of converts to your point of view by telling people they are stupid George. I strongly suggest you continue to adpopt that strategy!

George Rebane

stevenfrisch 1029pm - Didn't know you would put yourself into that category; but you know best. Your recommendation is accepted.

fish

George...you're being far too harsh! I for one rest easy at night knowing that Sandra Fluke will have access to her "Cadillac" birth control pills on Steves dime.

Does anyone know how this program will affect the Arawak indians?

stevenfrisch

I guess fish missed the point that Ms. Fluke's birth control testimony was on behalf of students at Georgetown, including students who were prescribed birth control by doctors for medical issues other than family planning?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/06/context-sandra-fluke-contraceptives-and-womens-hea/

Perhaps fish should read the whole testimony rather than relying on Rush to get it right.

Paul Emery

Don't worry George the pubbers will throw the fight next time around with another Romney, Ryan or Palin as an anchor around their necks. It is the failure of the Pubs to be a reasonable alternative that keeps the Dems in business. I'm not for either. I'm through with that and you should be as well.

Russ Steele

Right on schedule, President Obama promised he would transform America, creating fairness for everyone.

AP has the story: EXCLUSIVE: 4 IN 5 IN US FACE NEAR-POVERTY, NO WORK

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.

Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.

More HERE.

The big question is who will have any money to buy health insurance? The next question, how long before it is 5 out of 5 at the poverty level and Obama can declare total transformation victory?

fish

I'm not for either. I'm through with that and you should be as well.


Hahahahahahahahaahaahahahahahahhahahah! Ah...guitarzan you do brighten my day!

Pubbers.....pure gold!

fish

Perhaps fish should read the whole testimony rather than relying on Rush to get it right.


Oh yes Steve...if we disagree with the establishment line it must be due to Limbaugh. I don't listen...I do like Armstrong and Getty on 650 though!

stevenfrisch

You know fish it really does not matter what you listen to...you proved by your statement that you did not read or actually listen to Ms. Fluke's testimony...if you had you would know that the issue of HER birth control, or even whether she she ever used birth control or not, never came up.

So whether from Rush, or A & G, or here, or wherever, you have been the victim of propaganda.

fish

......you have been the victim of propaganda.


Noooooooooooooo! Not a victim....not fish!!

Is there any sort of federal program to which I can apply???!!!

Todd Juvinall

Fluke was a tool and it matters nopt about her personal desire for free condoms. She is simply a leftwing hack with a almost pretty face.

Account Deleted

"Just last week, a married female student told me that she had to stop using contraception because she and her husband just couldn't fit it into their budget any more. Women employed in low-wage jobs without contraceptive coverage face this same choice."
I'm surprised that 2 humans that stupid could even figure out how to engage in any activity that would involve birth control.
This is why we need the left to post here. I'm constantly surprised by how lacking in basic common sense some folks are. Remember - these 2 humans have the right to vote. It explains why we have the govt we have.

Todd Juvinall

ScottO, you are so right. I think this couple should practice what Obama is doing with our troops in Afghanistan and pull out. Oops, sorry.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Obermuller. It is still legal for stupid people to breed. Can't afford birth control? Try the rhythm method. Works if one has extreme self control and discipline.

Another alternative that is quite inexpensive works great. Its just for men. Have the married man drop a small pebble in his shoe. Have him run or walk a few miles. When he gets home it is guaranteed to work. Makes one limp.

Bill Tozer

On a more light hearted note, people just cannot afford ObamaCare. Study after study shows that a person making over 37k a year will pay more. So, with 37k the dude or dudette must pay rent, food, gasoline and car insurance, pay on student loans AND is told their health insurance is going to cost them 400 or so clams a month?? The subsidy won't help them and they are screwed. Take the tiny penalty and maybe things will get better next year. Oh, the dude or dudette can buy an ObamaCare policy for closer to 360/month, but it has a $3,200 deductible and where will they scrape together another 4k/year?? They are being corn holed with a wire brush.

No, we are NOT in this together. Welfare Mamas and assorted low life dirt bags get a free ride while the recent college grad who has flipped burgers and washed dishes since he/she was 16 and finally found an entry level job are the one's taking it in the poop chute. Not the ones laying on Mom's couch playing video games.

The person who sees his good benefit package skyrocket cause Obama says it is "not fair" and calls it a Cadillac plan is taking it where the sun does not shine. Everybody is getting reamed to insure the 10-15% who do not have health insurance. Sodomized big time. Your doc is quitting or can see you in 49 days. You pay more for less. No, we are Not in this together. Most of us are out cutting the fields while a tiny minority is sitting around the barn eating all the hay....and getting fat and lazy.

No, we are NOT in this all together. Most of us are pushing the cart and a very small minority are in the cart being exactly like the dead weight they are.

Paul Emery

Bill

Characterizing women who are struggling to raise their children as "Welfare Mamas" degrades your message and casts doubt on your ablilty to comment on the very human need of universal health care.

Bill Tozer

Paul: More proof that we are all not in this together. We pay for their housing, their healthcare, their food, their schooling. What more to they want? Give them an Obamaphone. Welfare mommas are the kind that take their kids to the ER to have a tick removed. Don't cost them a dime. Maybe they should sell their food stamps (like they do anyway) and actually pay for a doctor's visit. Universal? Its universal to them.

Paul Emery

Bill

They are raising children. Are you proposing those children have no health care?

Paul Emery

Also Bill wouldn't it be irresponsible not to take a child to the emergency room for tick removal since Limes disease is a severe and debilitating disease?

Bill Tozer

Paul, I am saying that people on welfare or aid to dependent families already have universal health care. Its paid for by the universe. Taking a tick out is like putting a bandage on. Twist it, burn its butt, or even cover it with Vaseline until it backs out if you are squeamish. I have pulled out countless of those little things. Without running up to ER. At least they could go see their Nurse Practitioner since universal health care is leading us to them.

I prefer to go see my doc, the one with Dr. in front of his name. I pay for that service. Sorry that some people get what they pay for. Its a crying shame.

Paul Emery

I accompanied a friend to the ER for a tick removal and they not only removed the tick ut prescribed a healthy dose of antibiotics to insure protection against Limes disease. I assume that's standard procedure. By the way, she was insured and her insurer was nicked for $1300 for the visit. It took about 15 minutes of actual procedure time.

Bill Tozer

Paul, in case you think I do not understand the plight of a woman raising her kids, allow me to expound. People on welfare, aka, Aid to 100% Dependent Families are wards of the State. Wards of the State. Wards of the State receive state sponsored health care. That is why they call it Dependent families. They are dependents of the state, just like taking dependents on your tax returns. Dependents are covered by their Pappy.

Bill Tozer

Yes. More information has come out concerning Lyme's Disease. About 9% of the people exposed to Lyme's actually get serious complications. Not fun. I stopped going to the ER when my insurance wanted me to pay a $75.00 co-pay. And they got nicked for a wad of greenies as well. That is why it is called health insurance, not health care.

Michael Anderson

Not sure what your point is here, Bill. I think what Paul and I are talking about is a more efficient system.

Yup, you're right. There are people who are taking advantage of the system. Are you proposing to let them die if they can't pay? Because if you're not, then they are going to the ER and then I and others like me have to pay.

Which is no longer acceptable. Which is the entire point behind PPACA. Which is why it is like a tsunami, drowning your silly has-been talking points like a clueless resort in Phuket.

Dustbin of history, meet Mr. Tozer. Mr. Tozer, allow me to introduce you to my good friend, DBoH.

bill tozer

Mr. Anderson, my simple point is that wards of the state already have health care. That is a no brainer. Perhaps Paul objected to the term Welfare Momma, perhaps.

Here is a social experiment. Go down to the River on hot weekend. Set up a booth and tell the young single people that Obama needs them desperately to sign up for ObamaCare cause we are all in it together. Tell them it is the only way this law can work. We need them more than they need us. Explain the costs and coverage and tell them they can opt out for this year by paying a $74 penalty. See what the young people do, not say. Of course collecting $74.00 at the river from bikini clad young people is kinda hard to do as well as collecting 400 bucks from them for the first month might be even a bigger hurdle. Aw, forget it. Uncle Sam Wants You posters might be just as effective.

fish

Yup, you're right. There are people who are taking advantage of the system. Are you proposing to let them die if they can't pay? Because if you're not, then they are going to the ER and then I and others like me have to pay.

Which is no longer acceptable. Which is the entire point behind PPACA. Which is why it is like a tsunami, drowning your silly has-been talking points like a clueless resort in Phuket.


.....and others like me have to pay. And pay and pay and pay!

Michael Anderson meet subsidies....subsidies meet Mr. Michael Anderson. I'm sure you gentlemen will become fast friends because you will be together for a long time!

Paul Emery

Subsidies meet Doug LaMalfa. Oh you've met, old family friends.

earlcrabb

While you geeks debate whether Obamacare works or not, my wife, who has been able to purchase insurance now despite her pre-existing condition, underwent six hours of heart surgery this week. Without coverage, her problem may not have been diagnosed until she had a fatal attack. As it now stands, she is alive and coming home tonight. There's a little reality for you all.

Bill Tozer

Mr Paul: Ben has his pet peeve with Wall-Mart and corporate influence peddling. And the filthy rich. You, sir, are really peeved about farm subsidies. While I won't get too far off track from the topic of ObamaCare and young people, I will wet your appetite with this short news blurb. PS: As far as rumors are concerned, I heard Mr. LaMalfa is still among the living.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/30/watchdog-report-finds-millions-in-govt-payments-to-dead-farmers/

Bill Tozer

Wanted By ObamaCare: The Young and Stupid

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/29/workers-at-obamacare-call-center-angry-after-being-offered-jobs-without-health/?intcmp=obinsite

George Rebane

BillT 156pm - Thanks Mr Tozer for pointing this out, I was and then forgot. You just can't make this stuff up, and the free-of-charge comedy (especially on these pages) of our progressive friends still defending Obamacare is actually priceless.

earlcrabb 137pm - Bob, while we celebrate with you your wife's operation, I hope the 'geeky' debating point about the need for someone to pay for it is not lost on you - that happens to be the enabling "reality" of your joy, be it by guile or government gun.

Paul Emery

Crabb

Yes, reality makes the Social Darwinists a little self self conscious because they feel more comfortable in their isolated reality preferring to keep their hands clean from examples of suffering people. Yes, they give at the church etc and that makes them feel righteous at least in their own mind.

The irony of those supporting LaMalfa and ragging about "welfare mothers" being wards of the state is too much to resist. I know of too many suffering people who cannot buy health insurance to take this likely.

I can already write the retort to this:

"All universal health care systems are not sustainable and will lead to totalitarian dictatorships that will take many more lives than national healthcare will save. "

George Rebane

PaulE 246pm - and pray, what evidence do you have of that self-consciousness?

Paul Emery

sp "take this lightly"

fish

The irony of those supporting LaMalfa and ragging about "welfare mothers" being wards of the state is too much to resist. I know of too many suffering people who cannot buy health insurance to take this likely.

How did LaMalfa work his way into the health care thread?

Paul Emery

Because in my view there is no way that letting people suffer and die because they cannot afford health care will sustain the basic human desire we have to do the right thing. Basic Aristotle stuff .

"Ethical practice, then, is an exercise of the intellect and will as people meld ideas about what virtue requires with the skills of best practice and direct these efforts toward the attainment of virtue in concrete circumstances. By engaging in ethical practice, human beings express their excellence as rational creatures"

http://www83.homepage.villanova.edu/richard.jacobs/MPA%208300/theories/Aristotle.html

George Rebane

PaulE 314pm - your "yes they give at the church" is not the half of it. The debate of private charity vs public welfare is worth having. Yes, we do give to our churches and to so many more places. Government is the least efficient way to get money to the needy, be food or heart operations. Over 70% of each private charitable dollar goes to the intended needy, while less than 30% of government dollars find their way there. It was ever thus, here is some related reading -
http://www.theadvocates.org/index.php/ask-dr-mary-ruwart-062013/
http://libertariananswers.com/is-private-charity-more-efficient-than-government-welfare/
http://mises.org/journals/jls/21_2/21_2_1.pdf

And you'd be amazed at both the relative amounts (private vs govt) and the politics of those private givers. Moreover, in spite of the increased load of taxes, fees, etc that the govts at all levels place on us, we continue to increase our giving. And yes, I and people like me feel pretty good about that. Here's more apropos stuff -
http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2007/2007-012.pdf

Paul Emery

George

Show me a charity that would support the 6-10,000 dollars per month that it takes to keep the two boys I know with cystic fibrosis alive and reasonably healthy.

fish

Again how did LaMalfa work his way into a health care thread......you want to argue against farm subsidies and I'm on board.

Try and stay on topic......you know..... basic Aristotle stuff.

George Rebane

PaulE 329pm - that is the typical anecdotal smokescreen you puff up in these debates. It is the progressive path of light thinking that focuses on the early few and leaves the devastated millions for later. What part of 'we can't afford it' is confusing to you? What part of the gross pissing away of funds don't you understand about government handouts to the needy? Government has made this so-called recovery almost invisible, and has done that at the greatest cost in history. And you guys just keep voting for those who want to pile it on while talking about poor kids with cystic fibrosis. Grow the goddam economy and we'll have the money for that and more, and most of it will come freely from private hands.

Todd Juvinall

Bless RL and his wife in this time of healing.

What RL's situation shows is that all politics is local.

PaulE will never be convinced on the LaMalfa issue so why try. My guess is Doug and his farm pay a thousand times more in income tax so PaulE's Social Security goes begging for a moral equivalency.

Paul Emery

Fish

It is my privilege to use irony to illustrate my position that according to many in this crowd it is perfectly OK to take the money of others and distribute it to wealthy families yet denigrate the unfortunate that need food stamps to feed their children. Are there welfare abusers? You bet but there are millions of others that have no other way to feed their children.

George

It is not anecdotal to detail that under the apparent acceptance of Social Darwinism that you seem to espouse many would die during the period of adjustment that would be required to establish the economic and political climate you claim would lead us to the promised land. The most efficient way to achieve efficient health care would be to eliminate weak and defective children before birth and sterilization of the same so they cannot reproduce Oh yeah, that's eugenics. Hmmm

The Bible teaches stories that Jesus used miracles to heal the sick and crippled. Guess what, we have miracle drugs and treatments available but unaffordable without government support because insurance companies won't pay for the treatments because under that twisted form of free enterprise it does not pencil out to insure the weak and sickly. Another golden moment in Capitalism along with wars for profit and the plunder of the resources of those weaker than ourselves.

Ben Emery

Paul,
I find it interesting when putting the numbers side by side. Doug LaMalfa net worth is anywhere from $1.2 - $5.5 million and his subsides (not including insurance) since 1995 is $5.1 million.

It seems to me Doug might be addicted to government programs than any person who collects food stamps. I wonder if Doug has Iphones, tv, nice cars, takes vacations, or drinks alcohol. Isn't that the argument against the poor who receive welfare that they should be regulated and have these luxuries taken from them?

fish

It is my privilege to use irony to illustrate my position that according to many in this crowd it is perfectly OK to take the money of others and distribute it to wealthy families yet denigrate the unfortunate that need food stamps to feed their children. Are there welfare abusers? You bet but there are millions of others that have no other way to feed their children.

You might want to practice more Aristotle!

stevenfrisch

Posted by: earlcrabb | 30 July 2013 at 01:37 PM


Good luck to you and your wife Bob. I am glad she could finally get the treatment she needed.

I just re-upped our companies health insurance (our renewal date is August 1st to avoid the end of the year craziness that befalls many small businesses) and the cost actually went down this year for the same coverage. Our agent tells us our cost is going to go down over the next 5 years as the ACA takes hold. (And no Todd, it has nothing to do with being an NGO, its the same plan any small business would buy).

Ben Emery

George, 30 July 2013 at 03:21 PM

I have given you this example before but it needs to be repeated here. We have a homeless shelter in Nevada County that can take up to 55 guests a night. Those guests for the last 7 years have been sheltered and fed dinner mainly at local churches plus a few other places that have enough space to accommodate 55 people with their sleeping gear. The sleeping and dinners are a very important piece of the whole picture but only a small piece. That shelters annual budget to organize lunch, doctors, dentists, social services, transportation, dinners, and shelter is around $500k a year.

I know there is Divine Spark, Greg Zaller's organization, Janice O'Brien and Reinette Senum work with the homeless issue as well among others. This equates to huge amounts of energy and resources to deal with an official homeless population of around 500. So we are talking thousands of hours of volunteer work, hundreds of thousands of dollars, dozens of paid workers, local/ state services, and a little bit of federal. All of this for 500 hundred people who are willing to come out from the shadows to ask for help while at the same time hearing from a very small but loud segment of the local population at how they do not belong in Nevada County.

To relate this to health care it would take one serious cancer treatment to equal the dollar amount of all the work done in Nevada County in the care for the homeless. You are insane if you think any charity could withstand this type of costs.

Charities and churches aren't the way to help large numbers of people in need. The way to help those people is to look at the institution and system in which creates these gigantic numbers of people who for one reason or another have fallen. In the mean time asking a increasingly unequal global economic system to step up to help local communities deal with the fallout of such a dysfunctional system is unrealistic and countering the philosophy of that very system. Economic inequality isn't just a US problem it is an epidemic that is covering the globe. Corporate self interests promotes division, inequality, and a race to the bottom. When they create such systems the labor is cheap and eager to put their lives in danger and the very same system that causes this inequality then puts forward charity solutions to the dysfunction they created in the first place.

One way we could do it is to mandate a tax on every dollar of profit made to go towards a health care system for all. Or we could just put a transaction tax on Wall St who has never done so well to pay for the entire health care system. http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/pages/financial-transaction-tax
We could remove the cap on FICA and open up Medicare for all to pay into the system. There are plenty of ways of doing this where we all pay into it so the working poor don't have to depend on charity especially religious charity who might hold the afterlife as hostage to receive such charity to those in need.

George Rebane

BenE 446pm - from where do the worthless bureaucrats get the dollar of which they deign 30 cents to dribble down to the needy? The gulf in our understanding is complete as illustrated by your faith that world class incompetents should be given even more money the extraction of which does less for the needy and slows down economic growth even more. You are truly irredeemable while fulfilling Einstein's classic definition to the letter.

Paul Emery

George

As I've repeated endlessly show me the alternative to a national health care system that meets your credos anywhere in the world-even a work in progress and we might have something to talk about. Without that my 30 July 2013 at 03:58 PM comments remain unchallenged.

fish

One way we could do it is to mandate a tax on every dollar of profit made to go towards a health care system for all. Or we could just put a transaction tax on Wall St who has never done so well to pay for the entire health care system. http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/pages/financial-transaction-tax

We could remove the cap on FICA and open up Medicare for all to pay into the system. There are plenty of ways of doing this where we all pay into it so the working poor don't have to depend on charity especially religious charity who might hold the afterlife as hostage to receive such charity to those in need.

Sorry Ben you lose! It's corporatism for the foreseeable future! Don't be sad though....you make it to congress and they'll just buy you too (of course the cynic in me doesn't think that this will upset you much). Have fun down on the farm!

George Rebane

PaulE 506pm - the one we have now, and the possibility of improving it through deregulation, reforming the tax code and medical tort laws, and forcing insurance companies to compete nationwide, while growing the economy.

Ben Emery

George,
You numbers are inverted when it comes to health care anyway. Private health insurance has an overhead cost of around 30% and Medicare runs at around 3% overhead. The privatized medicare program Part C runs around 5% higher over head costs.

Can you explain your understanding of how risk pooling works?

Medicare is poor program for risk pooling since the people who are participants are the highest risk pool. The best way to drop the premiums is to reduce the average risk of the pool. Having 300 plus million people buying into a insurance program that runs at a 3% overhead would reduce the average health insurance cost by around 50%.

Ben Emery

George last comment is for 30 July 2013 at 04:58 PM comment.

stevenfrisch

Shoot, lets just tax this!

http://www.businessinsider.com/goldmans-alleged-aluminum-scam-2013-7

Ben Emery

Fish,
If I were to ever get elected making friends wouldn't be my purpose in DC or Sacramento. Exposing the corruption/ inefficiencies and one party rule would be my purpose. I believe in self determination with citizen legislatures not career politicians and corporate sell outs.

The chances of that happening would be a million to one in our current system. Even that number is very generous at a person such as myself chances of being elected in a duopoly where the biggest spender wins 9 times out of 10.

I lost my patience with the Dems in the 90's and lost my respect for the Repubs during the Contract On America era. In the last 6 month I have been getting people everywhere I go asking me to run again in 2014. Changing a congress which has a decade approval rating less than 20% is only going to happen by voting outside the R's and D's.

I think Obama should be impeached for shredding the US Constitution and his assault on government whistleblowers and then put on trial for crimes against peace and humanity.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Paul. You will be most pleased that when ObamaCare kicks in, all 500 of Nevada County's needy who have come out of the darkness to ask for help will BE on Medical. Yep, all 500 on them, except their pets. Age don't matter any more. 18 years old and up if they make below 137% of the federal poverty level AND fall into the category of the most truly needy of our community. Like a partial subsidy won't cut it. They will be 100% covered! Free at last, free at last, thank God in Heaven, they will be free at last.

Paul, would you be so kind to point out one single Welfare Momma that does not have health insurance for herself and the children she is struggling to raise. Please name just one. Just one. She can remain anonymous of course. Name one single Welfare Momma that we are have not covered 100% with subsidized health insurance for the poor soul. This injustice must be addressed and heads will roll, guaranteed. The Welfare Momma is ALREADY free at last. Thank God in Heaven, she is free at last. Let freedom ring from the Smokey Mountains to Bend, Ore. Let freedom ring.

Free health care will soon liberate the good honest decent folks from the HH. Soon they can join hands with the Welfare Mommas and sing praise. A life changing event. Yes Paul, this is a life changing event. We have overcome! Its a miracle, an answer to prayer. This has radically changed their lives and circumstance. Stand on your chairs and shout "Amen". Do I hear an Amen? Amen!. No more sorrow, no more tears. No more poverty. Nothing put blue skies on the horizon.

Paul Emery

So George what insurance company would cover the costs of my friends who have genetic diseases if your 30 July 2013 at 05:10 PM wishlist were to come true? Also if things are basically as they are today with noted reforms what incentive would there be to insure those with preexisting conditions in general? Also tort reform without details is a hollow concept. Can you give me some indication what this would look like? By the way single payer insurance would of course extend across State lines and all national health care systems have tort reforms.

If it's the insurance companies that prevent extending insurance beyond state limits what indication is there that the billion bucks a year spend on lobbying wouldn't prevent that from ever happening since the Republicrats all share the same windfall. I have no confidence that would ever happen with the current phoney two party system. The Pubbers were in total control for years and seemingly did not advance that concept one bit. Why do you think that was? Should that be done on a State level. Apparently Georga tried it with these results

"In 2011, Georgia passed a law allowing people to buy insurance from out-of-state carriers. But not one out-of-state insurer has sought to do so. “Nobody has even asked to be approved to sell across state lines,” Georgia Insurance Commissioner Ralph Hudgens told Teegardin. “We’re dumbfounded. We’re absolutely dumbfounded.”


http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2012/05/11/will-buying-health-insurance-across-state-lines-reduce-costs/

Paul Emery

Bill

You're 6:15 comment is cynical beyond reasonable standards. You write like a person that's got theirs and are willing to give a big fuck you to those not on your boat.

Michael Anderson

Meanwhile, the rocket surgeons in the US House of Non-Representatives will be voting this week for the 40th time to repeal PPACA. Here is an actual picture from the future, showing those stalwart efforts as they take place: http://i42.tinypic.com/71k7td.jpg

George Rebane

PaulE 946pm - I think you have it backward again. As I have explained here several times, under the present system the insurance companies have government set-aside fiefdoms. They would be the last to ask to start competing nationwide for business. The intent is to open up the health insurance market and force them to compete.

Bill Tozer

Paul, what are reasonable standards? If you mean social norms, well I have pushed that envelope beyond recognition years ago. Good thing you did not know me 20-30 years ago. I am just a sliver of that Wild Bill now. I am just a quiet well mannered softy.

I see you got my point. The poor woman struggling to raise her kids ALREADY has free state sponsored health insurance and health care. So, can't use her as an argument that I am going to let her die in the ER. Dying in the ER happens everyday. Don't use her as an example. That gun fires only blanks.

Everyone at HH WILL get free health care in a few months. So, what is the reason to even mention them? Like they are all going to die cause they can't make it to the ER? That sadly happens everyday someplace in time. Heck, I might die before the meat wagon arrives if I fall and lay unconscious for a few days. The smell usually alerts neighbors to call the authorities. So, your 500 brave souls that have come out of hiding now can walk down the sunny side of the street.

Now I don't know your present insurance carrier, whether it be Medicare or a policy you bought for yourself. Its none of my bees wax. However, if you are uninsured, you best kick down and buy a policy before the Full Faith and Credit of the IRS comes looking for ya. Its the law. No ifs, ands, or butts about that fact.

I don't have an answer to your friends challenges in life. 6k/month is a lot of mula and might as well be 6 billion a month to most of us common folk. That is between a rock and a hard place. Apparently the kids have gotten this far somehow, someway. That is why I fear Obamacare, at least one aspect of it.

That aspect is the unelected commissioners who sit on the thumbs up or thumbs down panel. Oregon has a similar program. Say a kid needs a 300k operation. The Oregon panel denied a kid that needed a mere 130k operation, giving the kid the thumbs down. Why? Because they justified that with that money they could help 10 kids who needed a 10-15k operation. Its called rationed health care in the states that have that kind of panel.

Whether I am giving a big middle finger to those without means is not the point. The point is that giving someone health insurance is to many not the end all to all. Of course there are daily exceptions, but not to most average Joes. The welfare momma still comes home to the same apartment facing the same challenges, looking at the same furniture. The homeless see a doc for an abscessed tooth, yet they still face the same challenges and life style. I had a knee operation that got me walking and working again with the help of a handful of pain killers each morning. I still came home to the one bedroom apartment I raised my kids in, drove the same car, looked at the same old test tube tv and faced the same challenges and opportunities. Yes, health care insurance did get me back to work faster, but life changing? A basic right? What did they do when all people had was old saw bones and a shot of whiskey??

At workie they used to have some great freebies in the medicine cabinet. They stopped supplying them for some reason I can't understand. They were called Pain Busters. Half aspirin and half caffeine. Pop some of those and head out into the field with work and toil and sweat on your mind. Anything else was just excuses. They worked better than seeing old saw bones.

Hope your health insurance is better than mine. I hope every bodies is. Mine is better than what Congress gets, way less expensive per month (about 1/3 of what Congresspersons pay)and all in all is ok, cept now I have to pay more to fund the subsidy. No big deal. I will just work harder and longer each day. Piece of cake. I hope you and yours can to better than dumb ole little softy me. I hope everyone does better than this uncouth lout. And God bless Tiny Tim.

L

Just got the dog back from two days in the hospital. Somehow she exploded a disc in her spine which lodged against a nerve and caused a complete loss of motor control. Most people would have just shrugged and let her go. Problem is, by the time the problem had been diagnosed, via CT and MRI plus misc charges, the bill was already over $3K. So, we Ok'ed the operation and it came to a total of $4600 for a damn mutt.

I'll guarantee if Ricki had been a human, the bill would have been $46,000, or more. Ask yourselves why and you'll understand George's comment about tort liability laws and much else being herein discussed. L

L

It isn't the cost of medical care per se, it is the riduculous overhead that makes the cost of human care so unaffordable to so many.

$1300 to remove a tick?!! Especially when Lyme's disease only occurs in a few geographic areas? Why should anybody pay that?

Come to L's clinic and I'll do it for $.50 per critter. Are we kidding?

Paul Emery

Bill T 30 July 2013 at 11:07 PM "Apparently the kids have gotten this far somehow, someway."

The kids got this far because of government support, something many on this blog would like to eliminate and leave up to charity.

Michael Anderson

George wrote: "The intent is to open up the health insurance market and force them to compete."

So why can't this be done under PPACA??? Use the legislation to get what you want!!

Bill Tozer

Paul. If your friend's children have made it this far by government support, then it is a non issue. They are not at risk of me letting them die a slow death. This is good news for them and their family and friends. The government is their backstop. And they have made it this far in life without Obamacare kicking in. Indeed proof that there is a safety net for them. Congratulations are in order.

Gregory

RL, so sorry to hear of your wife's surgery, hope the recovery is without drama.

The pre-existing conditions problems were due to the whole employer based system that grew out of the choice not to tax "fringe benefits" provided by employers. Fixing it could have been done without restructuring all of health care in the US.

In any case, it's good to be an old fart again, as under Obamacare, mortuary bait not yet on Medicare can't be charged more than three times what the young and not yet decrepit can be charged for the same coverage even if they're expected to pay out five times as much. Yet another transfer of income from young to old but only if the young choose to buy Obamacare insurance rather than the pittance of a penalty and then buy "insurance" when they're sure to have some expensive bills about to arrive... Try calling Allstate to buy comprehensive insurance after your car gets wrecked.

Gregory

"The kids got this far because of government support, something many on this blog would like to eliminate and leave up to charity."

Paul, the government support *is* charity.

George Rebane

Apropos to this comment stream, I have posted the 31jul13 update.

fish

I think Obama should be impeached for shredding the US Constitution and his assault on government whistleblowers and then put on trial for crimes against peace and humanity.

But he's black.....and with a Nobel Peace Prize......how could you wish this upon him?

Bill Tozer

I knew it was coming. You could just smell it. First it was smokers. Then the filthy ones chugging carbonated corn sweetened soda pops. That opened the door for the next phase in our national us vs them debate, i.e., crudely known as fat people. The obese ones driving up medical costs for all of us, even the simpletons. They must be penalized for their own good and the good of our nation. Fat people just are too darn expensive to maintain on our healthcare roles...We need government intervention. Big Bro is watching your scales. No wonder the IRS ordered tiny bugs to be put in bathrooms.

http://money.msn.com/now/post--can-you-be-deported-for-being-fat

Sure, scoff and say that is just Victorian New Zealand. You know that quaint country where it is against the law in the Capital not to have pretty flowers growing in the window planters. That silly New Zealand with its green push and socially conscience sate of mind.

Who says it can't happen here. This is not like Goverinator Arnold promoting exercise. This is not like Michelle O planting her victory garden. No, this one comes with public humiliation, lost of employment, forced to buy two airline tickets, and more costly health insurance with penalties. Body Mass Index is coming to a exchange near you.

If you are going to play, you are going to pay. Its comin' by gum.

George Rebane

BillT 145pm - Mr Tozer, did you misspell 'gun' in your last sentence, or was that a typo?

Bill Tozer

UNWANTED BY Cities From Honolulu To New York: the young and stupid

And some call me harsh. Even progressive Seattle? But they have Medicaid, so whats the problem?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/31/hawaii-lawmakers-to-buy-their-homeless-one-way-tickets-out-town/?test=latestnews

Dr. Rebane. No typo. "By gum" is correct, by gum. Just like the lead in to the classic song "June is busting out all over". The lead in to the song goes something like this:

"and a crowd of Doubting Thomases was predicting that the summer would never come. But its coming by gum, you can feel it come, you can hear it in the trees you can smell it in the breeze, look around look around, look around....June it bustin' out all over, all over the meadows and the hills, that the young Virginia Creepers are a hugging the bojeepers out of all the morning glories on the fence.

That, my respected sir, is from memory of my 7th grade choir song. Yes, only 3 guys in chorus and the rest were fine young ladies. Also took typing for the same reason. Unfortunately I had no interest in singing nor anything close to talent. I was told to mouth the song. Fortunately the girls in the class helped me get over any hurt feelings. And, yes, I digress.

The War on Fat People is a coming! Its a comin' by gum, you can feel in come, look around, look around, look around. The War on Fat People is busting out all over

George Rebane

BillT 556pm - Mr Tozer, I was just wondering what if the 'gum' didn't work, if you just chose to stay fat and refuse to heel under the government diktat. Would they then try more gum, or something a bit stronger? I can assure you that they have already dispensed with gum when it comes to enforcing Obamacare.

Michael Anderson

The 'gum' will veer toward total compliance. Just you watch.

Here is another look at it: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/01/opinion/collins-politics-of-a-screeching-halt.html?hp&_r=0

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane wrote in his excellent piece "after applying the Pelosi Principle to the unaffordable care act, everyone with a couple of neurons to rub together wants to climb on the already crowded Exemption Express."

Nothing new under the sun. Our elected representatives that devote their lives caring for the feeble, the poor, the slow, the down trodden, the sick, the disabled, the abused, the discouraged, the victims of the white ruling class always exempt themselves from the laws that protect us from injustice.

They have exempted themselves from the minimum wage laws, the Americans with Disabilities Act, Title 9, and a myriad of other laws designed to stomp out inequality at every turn.

These laws are not meant for Pelosi or Reed or Carlos Danger..its the old bald headed boss chasing the young defenseless secretary around the desk and she gets fired when caught routine.

It would be priceless to see Nancy or Harry or Maxine Waters stand in line to sign up for Medicaid. Well, Nancy is 70 so she does not get Medicaid. But it a priceless imagine in my mind nonetheless. Perhaps Hoffa can take her place or even that young Rahm Emmanuel. Never happen in a billion years.

Even the staff at AARP is finding ways around Obamacare. Its for the well being of their employees of course.

Careful what you wish for. Reminds me of an old show when a husband died and his wife wished him to come back to life. Unfortunately for the wife and more so for dearly departed husband risen from the dead, the man was pumped full of embalming fluid. Not a pretty picture and his screams still haunt me.

Hope this old hobo can still hop the Exempt Express before it leaves the station.

Bill Tozer

No thanks. I would rather not switch toilet paper right now.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/01/irs-chief-says-hed-rather-not-switch-over-to-obamacare-plan/

Bill Tozer

Obamacare is an assault on women. But, the U of V??? Say it ain't true. I was wondering how the University will manage to continue to provide great education at bargain basement tuition for its students. Think they have found yet another way to keep their tuition from skyrocketing unlike most institutions of higher education.

http://money.msn.com/now/post--ups-cites-obamacare-for-cutting-benefits-to-spouses

Bill Tozer

http://washingtonexaminer.com/report-claims-obamacare-union-fix-will-cost-187-billion-over-a-decade/article/2535474

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