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01 October 2013

Comments

Russ Steele

Here is more proof of a nation in decline from Con Coughlin writing at the UK Telegraph:

While the White House insists that essential areas of the government, such as the military, will continue to function, the shut down represents yet a further blow to the prestige of the Obama administration at a time when it is still reeling from its inept handling of the recent Syrian crisis.
There was a time not so long ago when the world looked to America for both political and economic leadership. But now that can no longer be taken for granted thanks to Mr Obama's inability to provide decisive leadership on either front.
Republicans rightly argue that by pressing ahead with Obamacare before the implications of the programme have been properly assessed risks adding to America's debt mountain at a time when the American economy is still recovering from the biggest economic crisis in recent history.
The emergence of Russia, meanwhile, as the main power broker in the Syria crisis has severely damaged America's standing as a major global player.
In short, the longer the Obama presidency continues, the more America's status as a superpower ebbs away.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/100238900/us-government-shutdown-barack-obama-is-presiding-over-the-end-of-americas-superpower-status/

Paul Emery

George

I suppose the War in Iraq was the result of group think by mental giants. Also the nomination of Sara Palin. By the way, can you explain what you mean by the great unwashed? Does that refer to the hygienic habits of people you disagree with?

George Rebane

PaulE 725pm - No, 'great unwashed' is the now politically incorrect colloquialism that refers to the hoi polloi, and is used here to pique liberal sensitivities.

Paul Emery

Kind of like "ragheads"

Todd Juvinall

No like "republicrat"

Paul Emery

Todd

Republicrat is not derogatory Todd but an accurate description of someone who claims to be either a Demster or Pubber because we actually have a one party system. It's only the hopelessly naive that believe otherwise.

Bill Tozer

Dr. Rebane, I hope we are not past the tipping point, but my hope may be akin to a schoolboy whistling in the dark as he passes the graveyard.

Part of me says we survived Carter we can survive this. But the Carter years were just the beginning of the decline in education. Talk about a slippery slope since then. I read blogs (only post here) and I see there are a bunch of people who think as I do. The "don't tread of me" types. The ones who still believe in the American dream, the work ethic, and those able bodied persons of working age who think receiving gov't aide like food stamps is perhaps the most embarrassing lowest point in one's entire life, albeit temporary. I cannot be alone.

You don't work, you don't eat. And gov't's role is not to eat my lunch.

I look at the QE, the debt, the deficit, the public education system, Obamacare, unfunded liabilities and a myriad of too big to solve problems. Each problem is enormous in and of itself and each problem is a different rail car attacted to the runaway train. And its a long train headed to the place where things crash and burn. The bone yard.

But the most troubling thing I see is this attitude that government owes me something, or government is the first place to turn to. "Ask not what we can do for our country, rather ask what my country can do for me" is today's deep seated attitude and belief. It sickens me. Its ingrained. And it is the biggest obstacle of all. The root of the poison tree.

If we are past the tipping point, I know what to do. Dust myself off and start preparing as any prudent person would do. Just got to wait and hope that after this generation dies off another generation will rise to recapture what has been taken from us. People of courage and foresight do not ask "Where my Obamaphone?" Not today, not ever.

George Rebane

BillT 942pm - Well said Mr Tozer. Please understand that my hopes viz America and our dreams for it and the future are the same as yours, and remain firm. By 'past the tipping point' I have always meant that we will not recover to a business as usual (e.g. the 1950s) state of being without first having to SUCCESSFULLY undergo a national catharsis. And the longer that catharsis is delayed by centrally planned artificial nostrums and palliatives that induce an attitude reflected in the (above) paragraph by Bastiat, the less likely that we'll survive the catharsis as a single sovereign nation-state which can beneficially trace its founding to 1776.

Given the rapid progress in genomics, nano-tech, and machine intelligence, tomorrow will be very different from any other epoch in human history. And today we are preparing to fight tomorrow's societal 'war' with ideas and methods that didn't even work in past wars.

Paul Emery

Back to the 50's George? Are you sure?

Is it a coincidence George that the 50's state of being you refer to was the time of the highest percentage of workers being Unionized ant the highest progressive income tax rates for the wealthy and corporations. The lowest tax rate in the 50's was 20% and the highest 91% according to the Conservative think tank the American Enterprise Institute. They also say "Back to the 1950s? Forget it. We need pro-growth tax reform that will get this country moving again."

http://www.aei-ideas.org/2012/04/why-we-cant-go-back-to-sky-high-1950s-tax-rates/

Paul Emery

There are cracks in the cathedral. From todays Politico

"Some House Republicans facing perilous paths to reelection in 2014 are beginning to budge on the government shutdown, calling for the party to compromise and move on from its fight over defunding Obamacare.

“Republicans fought the good fight. The fight continues but is not advanced by a government shutdown that damages our economy and harms our military,” Virginia Rep. Scott Rigell said in a statement. “The time has come to pass a clean CR to reopen the government......nd Pennsylvania Rep. Pat Meehan said: “I came to Washington to fix government, not shut it down. At this point, I believe it’s time for the House to vote for a clean, short-term funding bill to bring the Senate to the table and negotiate a responsible compromise.”

New Jersey Rep. Jon Runyan said: “Enough is enough. Put a clean (continuing resolution) on the floor and let’s gets on with the business we were sent to do.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/vulnerable-republicans-end-the-shutdown-97654.html#ixzz2gXbStVls


Michael Anderson

George, Paul completely pwned you on that one (millennial speak for "owned").

In all fairness, I feel the need to post my comment here as I did at Pelline's site tonight. After all, this was my gift to you. Thank you Ben Emery, nice work.

-------------------------------
Sierra Foothills Report
Michael Anderson, on October 1, 2013 at 4:15 pm said:

These Tea Party traitors are enemies of freedom, liberty, and the Constitution. They should find another country in which to live. America, love it or leave it.
Reply

Michael Anderson, on October 1, 2013 at 10:34 pm said:

Ben, truth be told, when I stop at Bruno’s in Gerlach, I always order Coors in a can. Been doing that there since 1979, just a habit I guess. Back then, microbrews didn’t exist, and the exports were 3x in price (junk like Dos Equis). Coors is an American beer from the west and I could give a rat’s ass about their politics. I drink it proudly, in the appropriate places. BTW, Budweiser is a rice beer from St. Louis, so no thank you.

Never was a dipper, but smoked way more than my share of Camel filters till I quit when I turned 24 yrs. old. Saved my life that day. I’ve smoked a few since then, but always with ill-effected ill affect.

Thanks, Ben, for the video. I took the time to jot down some of the lyrics. For those who missed it, here you are:

“If things don’t go their way, they can always move away.
That’s what democracy means, anyway.
It’s America–
You got no right to deceive it, it’s the best there is,
and you better believe it.
Good men gave their lives,
so we could live to see it.
It’s America, love it or leave it.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9JPEz6umM5s

Michael A.

Michael Anderson

Gee Paul, reasonableness. What a concept.

This is what I would like. Accountability. I am going to print a very simple questionnaire below. I would like for the appropriate parties to respond:

Gov't Shutdown Good?

YES / NO

* George Yes / No
* Gregory Yes / No
* "Tozer" Yes / No
* "Dirt Mover" Yes / No
* Todd Juvinall Yes / No
* "fish" Yes / No
* Scott O. @ the church Yes / No
* Mikey D. Yes / No
* Steve F. Yes / No
* Paul E. Yes / No

More at 11!

Bill Tozer

A short shutdown is a non-event. This one looks like it will last until the debt ceiling limit debate on Oct 17. Then I will vote.

fish

Government Shutdown - Good/Bad

Bad if it only goes a week or two. Good if it goes longer and shows the American people it can do with a whole lot less than it has now.

This reflexive knee jerk fear of not being adequately "governed" by you proglodytes absolutely mystifies me!?

I mean, you all claim to be so smart, so well credentialed, but go a day without direction from upper management and you want to drop to the floor and curl into the fetal position.

Bill Tozer

Since government has not shut down, just a slimdown, I reject your premise. I reject the premise coupled with no name calling. Reality, what a concept.

Todd Juvinall

BillT, excellent. MichaelA's premise is false. Therefore his opinion is false. It appears he has a lot of time on his hands. I wonder why? Naw, don't care.

Todd Juvinall

Fish, can I use "proglodytes" too? Too funny.

Paul Emery

Michael A question 11:26

Bad The Pubsters need to go to work and elect a President and Senate to get what they want. They are twisting slowly slowly in the wind. It's a tantrum and is being perceived by the American public as such. It's ironic because Demos will actually gain in the mid term elections because of it.

fish

Todd...if you're stealing from me you're stealing twice...so knock yourself out!


(ps: I already stole it from reason.com).

Todd Juvinall

Thanks fish.

PaulE the dems and reps are about even in the polls regarding blame. Obama is right there too. In 1995 the election after that shutdown, the R's held the house and I think the Senate. So you can wish all you want that the R's will be punished but it is a fantasy.

Paul Emery

Todd

Readers can take your comments for what it's worth, You were 11% off in picking Romney last year by 8%. It was Obama by 3.5.

Paul Emery

BTW only 17% of voters disapprove of the way the Republicans in Congress are handling their job. The Dems nearly double them at 32%. Nuff said.

http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm

George Rebane

I think that Ramirez nails the intellectual content of the current debt ceiling debate (see 2oct13 update).

fish

The plot thickens......

From Bruce Krasting via Zero Hedge

As a long time watcher of Social Security I was shocked (yes, shocked) at the recent Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on America's largest entitlement program. CBO concluded that the long term outlook for SS deteriorated substantially over the last twelve month. (CBO link)

CBO revised its assumptions regarding mortality. This is a huge variables for SS. With people living longer, they will receive more checks; this eats into the solvency of SS over a long-term period.

CBO concluded that one option to 'balance' the solvency of SS required an "Immediately and Permanent" payroll tax increase of 3.4% (Wow!). A year earlier, CBO stated that a payroll tax increase of 1.9% was required to balance SS. The change in the tax increase required is 70% higher than that reported just a year ago!

SS's taxable payroll is equal to 36.3% of GDP. That comes to $5.8 Trillion for 2013. A 3.4% tax increase translates to approximately $200 Bn! A tax increase of this magnitude would absolutely sink the economy. There is no chance in hell that anything like that could (or should) happen. However, there are a variety of other alternatives to tweak SS that would not have the negative consequences of such a big tax increase.

Were not for the fact that the country is managing its finances on a month to month basis, the rapidly growing problems at SS would be high on the list of problems that need attention. Clearly, the White House has read the CBO report. I wonder if the WH will use the rapidly deteriorating condition of SS as its "lever" in negotiating with Republicans over the budget and the debt limit.

Would Obama throw SS under the bus to achieve an extension of the debt limit and an end to the shutdown? Of course he would. Some things that might happen as part of a 'big deal' to buy a resolution of the immediate crisis(s):

I) Raise the cap on taxable earning- liberals love this.

II) Raise the retirement age - Obama has already pushed for this.

III) Means test SS retirement benefits - Republicans wanted this for Medicare.

IV) Change the COLA inflation adjustment. Liberals hate this, Republicans want it, Obama has pushed for it.

If all four of these steps were adopted, it would have Zero consequence to the economy for the next three years. Obama would love that outcome.

What's the most important thing for Obama? To end the debate over ACA. Would he trade ObamaCare for big changes to SS? In a New York minute.

As near as I can tell, there is currently no basis for a resolution to the budget impasse, and it looks like we are headed off the cliff on the debt limit. Something has to give. SS may be the lever that the Big O needs for a deal that saves his presidency. The Tea Party folks in the House will not vote for anything that allows ACA to continue, but there are a fair number of moderate Republicans who would trade SS for ACA. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) would puke at this result, so would Harry Reid (D-NV. But if they apposed a deal, then they would be the ones responsible for a national default (Republicans would love this outcome).

Would Obama push his pals off a cliff to get a deal? The answer is that he has no other viable options.


http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2013-10-02/obama-i-need-lever

fish

George,

Von Mises, Hayek, Marx.....who are the remaining two?

Gregory

A quick quiz... the law requires the Senate to pass a budget before April 15 each year. When was the last budget Harry Reid passed and signed by the President?

No, Continuing Resolutions are not the solution. The House has primacy in taxing and spending, and the Speaker controls the House, all with good Constitutional justification. This BS over 'holding the country hostage' is because the argument over spending as a whole has been punted since April 2009, the last time Reid did his job.

I told a couple of active GOP friends weeks ago that I hoped there wouldn't be CR brinksmanship and instead just let Obamacare run its course up to the 2014 elections and let the realities sink in (I don't think the kiddies in involuntary servitude servicing crushing student loan debt sold to them by an ed industry looking out for themselves are going to be enthusiastic about subsidizing their parent's healthcare), but the fiscal crap will hit the fan sooner or later.

Gregory

fish, the last two are Bastiat and Engles.

Gregory

Make that "Engels"

fish

Bastiat was the one that I "knew" but couldn't name.

Meh....getting old!

I told a couple of active GOP friends weeks ago that I hoped there wouldn't be CR brinksmanship and instead just let Obamacare run its course up to the 2014 elections and let the realities sink in (I don't think the kiddies in involuntary servitude servicing crushing student loan debt sold to them by an ed industry looking out for themselves are going to be enthusiastic about subsidizing their parent's healthcare), but the fiscal crap will hit the fan sooner or later.

Agree completely.

Joe Koyote

Todd "the dems and reps are about even in the polls regarding blame. Obama is right there too"

Who people are laying the blame on depends on which poll you look at. CNN has it at 46% GOP's fault and 36% Dem. CBS/NYTimes has itst 44% GOP and 35% Dem. The more conservative leaning PEW poll is closer at 39% GOP and 36% "Dem. 72% of all people disagree with the shutdown even though they are about evenly split on Obamacare. 25% of all people think the GOP is being responsible with 69% characterize the GOP as "acting like spoiled children", while only 47% ascribe the spoiled label to Obama.

Paul Emery

Todd

Rewrite:

BTW only 17% of voters approve of the way the Republicans in Congress are handling their job. The Dems nearly double them at 32%. Nuff said.

http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_rep.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/cong_dem.htm

fish

Paul, JoeK

I hope you guys totally sweep the next election cycle!

Gregory

"In our latest poll, the public divides blame over a possible shutdown: about as [many] say the Obama administration would be to blame for failing to avoid a shutdown (36%) as Republicans (39%)."

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/09/30/the-last-government-shutdown-and-now-a-different-environment/

Koyote referred to the "more conservative leaning PEW poll" but the solid left Slate writes "The nonprofit Pew Research Center is one of the least biased, most reliable polling organizations in the country". I'd put their basic point of view as moderate Democrat but take their charge of non-partisan public research seriously so they do try to be even handed.

Joe Koyote

"Koyote referred to the "more conservative leaning PEW poll" but the solid left Slate writes "The nonprofit Pew Research Center is one of the least biased, most reliable polling organizations in the country"" -- Gregory -- did you happen to read the article from which that quote came from or did you just copy the quote from the Google synopsis? For those who missed it, the article was about a study by PEW of it own polling and how telephone polls in general have reliability problems. Interesting article that demonstrates how poll samples really may not reflect the larger population.

George Rebane

I call your attention to the 2oct13 update to this post.

jarebane

test comment

Paul Emery

Fish 12:48

You Guys sweep the election? You don't think I'm a Democrat do you?

fish

You don't think I'm a Democrat do you?

Yes I do..... a very tightly closeted and politically confused democrat.

You would probably feel better if you just came out to your friends and family...there isn't the same stigma that there once was for that sort of aberrant lifestyle choice.

Michael Anderson

George wrote: "I call your attention to the 2oct13 update to this post."

Everything you wrote is true. One problem: this is chess, not tiddlywinks. It has been known for months that this shutdown was a bad strategy for the Tea-publicans. They did it anyway. Bishop to H-3, and the National Parks and Monuments are shut down. What would you have Obama do, close the EPA and Dept. of Education? Why would he do that?

Our disagreements are much more about the tactics than the problems, George. To paraphrase: "Some say that you are a dreamer, and you might be the only one."

fish

Everything you wrote is true. One problem: this is chess, not tiddlywinks.

Then you have no business commenting.....perhaps another relatable about your love of canned Coors beer....


It has been known for months that this shutdown was a bad strategy for the Tea-publicans. They did it anyway.

When your enemy is screwing up let him go! Why do you, Peachie and the Emery boys cling to the fiction that you aren't full on screaming lefties? If that's your creed might as well just own up to it.


Bishop to H-3, and the National Parks and Monuments are shut down. What would you have Obama do, close the EPA and Dept. of Education? Why would he do that?

I would have...the EPA is expensive...... and truth be told most of the real work is done by the states. Dept of Ed?? Close them down and we might inadvertently educate someone...lord knows Team Democrat can't have that!

Our disagreements are much more about the tactics than the problems, George. To paraphrase: "Some say that you are a dreamer, and you might be the only one."

"Some say that you are a dreamer, and you might be the only one."


?????

Maybe to come down off your high you could sleep in the backyard and incinerate something that looks vaguely "man" shaped until next years get together. I'm worried about you dude...you're verging off into Keachie territory....not a place in which any sane man wants to find himself!

Michael Anderson

Hey "fish," no need to worry about me, buddy.

The fact that I actually use my real name here proves that I am willing to stand by what I write.

You're just a little pipsqueak with dirty diapers, supposedly in possession of a superior security clearance but still too scared to stand for anything in public.

BTW, it's clear that you didn't even understand my strategy advice. And I'll comment wherever I like, thank you, so you don't need to worry about that either.

Wayne Hullett

Re the national dumbth: I recall travelling in Europe as a young man in the early '60's and being surprised at how much better educated young Germans were than I, with my freshly minted college degree and California high school education. As I understood it at the time, in Germany students were sorted into college bound and trade school bound in the sixth grade, and attended different classes from then on. I don't know if that is still the case there.

Of course that system would never be possible in this country. The screw-ups who sit in the back and disrupt the class and make fun of anyone who is trying to learn have a "right" to be there all through high school since everyone is "equal". And then the Nancy Pelosi's of the country want them to have their "fair share" of the income of those whom they were ridiculing for actually trying to make something of themselves. I don't think the founders anticipated that method of getting votes.

Gregory

Koyote 6:22pm, I never quote from the google summary. Or bing or any other summary. I quote from the original. An old habit beat into me by my history professors.

Again, the Slate article clearly stated "The nonprofit Pew Research Center is one of the least biased, most reliable polling organizations in the country." Slate wouldn't say that about Rasmussen, or Fox. They're also honest enough to not claim a lack of bias by the NY Times or BSNBC.

Of course, you're just throwing chaff, since you've failed to present any evidence that Pew is considered "conservative leaning" by anyone but those leaning very left.

Gregory

No, mandersonation, it isn't tiddleywinks or chess. It's a game called "chicken".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_%28game%29

Obama and Reid's refusal to work the budget process is very probably because they don't think the GOP House would go through with it. If the House Tea Party caucus is as crazy as you think it is, you should be afraid. So should Obama and Reid. Maybe even think about coming to a compromise regarding backing off the Obamacare timetable or removing the medical device tax that most everyone wants to go away.

George Rebane

MichaelA 829pm - "What would you have Obama do, close the EPA and Dept. of Education? Why would he do that?" Oh, I don't know. Perhaps because he cared for the welfare of the country, and knew the damage that these agencies are doing to America and Americans.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Hullet: When our Dads were young, they didn't travel Europe gallivanting across the countryside with little backpacks. No siree, they bombed the bejeezus out of it. Not on topic, but I thought I would throw that in.

Concerning Dr. Rebane's update to National Ignorance:

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1234236_10151630736695911_248784026_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1017125_10151667979995911_1869898303_n.png

Michael Anderson

George, I wasn't talking about the usefulness of the EPA or USDE, I was talking about their effectiveness as a bargaining chip. BTW, ~5% of "essential" EPA and USDE functions are still operating (their web sites are shuttered); 100% of the National Park System is closed.

Greg, chicken has only two players. You are forgetting the American people, player number 3. They provide the Observer effect, which changes the behavior of that which is being observed. Hence, the chess metaphor.

Bill Tozer

Dr Rebane, why is this park closed? They have their own huge endowment and are staffed by volunteers.

Best quote in this link: "Utter crap."

http://freebeacon.com/shutdown-theater/

Gregory

No, MA, the American people are the bystanders cheering and jeering on the sidelines. Mostly say hooray for our side.

It's chicken.

Gerry Fedor

Interesting that both Houses are still collecting their paychecks.....

Maybe they should give up their pay too?

fish

Hey "fish," no need to worry about me, buddy.

Actually I'm not.....err...buddy.

The fact that I actually use my real name here proves that I am willing to stand by what I write.

Were I you I would use a pseudonym, to spare myself the embarrassment if nothing else.

You're just a little pipsqueak with dirty diapers, supposedly in possession of a superior security clearance but still too scared to stand for anything in public.

Well mikey you're the guy who started with the all DHS talk. Rumor has it the you're quite the keyboard commando...likes to make threats and all that.....and threats towards women too I understand. Remember this exchange.....What I will commit to do is outing idiotic talk from people like "fish" who seem to have an un-American bent that may need closer scrutiny. Perhaps a visit from Homeland Security is needed? I can arrange that.

.... of course followed by your weak assed attempt to walk it back with George. It was all in fun...just a joke.... really man I didn't mean it!

Don't worry mikey, my tenure may be ending with the agency with whom I work. Maybe we can work something out.

BTW, it's clear that you didn't even understand my strategy advice. And I'll comment wherever I like, thank you, so you don't need to worry about that either.

Oh I don't worry mikey, you keep right on posting. Continue to favor the world with more of your brilliance.

Michael Anderson

Here's the deal, "fish." I've been dealing with right-wing gov't bullies like you since my age was a single digit. I'm sure you have a nice cozy spot where you can spend the day mumbling to yourself, "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, power is the ultimate aphrodisiac..." while rubbing your hands together like Captain Queeg.

I look forward to the end of your tenure so you can come out of the darkness and own what you write.

fish

Here's the deal, "fish." I've been dealing with right-wing gov't bullies like you since my age was a single digit. I'm sure you have a nice cozy spot where you can spend the day mumbling to yourself, "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, power is the ultimate aphrodisiac..." while rubbing your hands together like Captain Queeg.

I look forward to the end of your tenure so you can come out of the darkness and own what you write.

Funny....you don't sound like an "Anderson"....more like a "Johnson" making impassioned speeches from the bar in "Blazing Saddles.

"....come out of the darkness". (snicker)

Here's the deal "Michael"....

- I'm not a "right winger".

- You started with the threats.

- Your grasp on reality is slipping (...."power is the ultimate aphrodisiac, power is the ultimate aphrodisiac..." while rubbing your hands together like Captain Queeg.) What "movie" plays on an
endless loop in that soft skull of yours that would lead you to make such a lame assed comment. I'm not the guy here singing the governments praises at every turn.....that's you....now that you
think you're in control forever more. Enjoy you're coming irrelevancy or daddy is going to come back and spank your mewling asses..... or something similarly nonsensicial. Remember
that one?

Fact of the matter is that you found someone who wasn't impressed by your "tuff gai" blather and called you on it. Apparently on Michael Anderson World instead of dialing it back you felt the need to double down.

Weak sauce.

Gregory

Regarding the National Ignorance, there's a fine op-ed in Time today, Newt Gingrich on shutdowns:

"Back in 1995-96, there was the understanding that government shutdowns were an unpleasant but integral part of the legislative-executive power struggle. That power struggle is built into the American Constitution. The Founding Fathers wanted to protect freedom by separating powers so every branch had to negotiate with the others. They believed the legislative branch was closest to the people and in peacetime the most important branch. That is why the Constitution devotes Article One to the Congress...

Back in 1995, we were used to shutdowns as part of the negotiating process. Democratic Speaker Tip O’Neill had twelve shutdowns during his Speakership. Not so today, as seen both in the news media and in the hysteria of President Obama and the Democrats. Until this week, there had been seventeen years without a legislative-executive confrontation that led to a shutdown...

If the president begins a phone call with the words “I will not negotiate,” as President Obama did last Friday with Speaker Boehner, it is pretty hard to see how they can find a common ground. That was not President Clinton’s style at all.

House Republicans have to be prepared to compromise but so must President Obama and his Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Faced with a president who refuses to negotiate, the House Republicans have to stand firm. A collapse of the House Republicans would teach President Obama that he can get away with virtually anything he wants. It would lead to a frightening three years and ultimately an even bigger crisis.

There is a path to a negotiated agreement but it requires both sides to negotiate. In 1995-96, both sides knew they were subordinate to the Constitution and they had to reach an agreement. It is not clear that this is true today."


http://ideas.time.com/2013/10/03/newt-gingrich-founding-fathers-liked-shutdowns/

George Rebane

Re MichaelA’s 829pm & 1117pm – Of course it’s ‘chess’, however today it is played by one side for observers on the sidelines who have no idea how the pieces are supposed to move. (This is a crass and cruel way to take advantage of the intellectually debilitated.) Perhaps some readers did not understand the point of this post, to wit evidence grows daily that national ignorance (dumbth) is now endemic. My comments are intended to draw attention to and highlight some of that evidence. I believe that most RR readers were not misled.

In any event, I will offer the apology taught by my late friend and mentor Skip Case, ‘I’m sorry I didn’t say it well enough for you to understand.’

fish

The irony.....ahhh...it burns!


Have Questions On Obamacare? Call 1-800-F U-CKYO

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-03/have-questions-obamacare-call-1-800-f-u-ckyo

Walt

Is HY20 still open? Just think of all the Fed. land it crosses.
The FED freeways are still up and running,,, what gives??
Even the FED owned bridges in the Bay are working!

But LIB Government has saw fit to close the parks that actually turn a profit,
They have closed private business, just because it sits of FED land.
Mt. Vernon is in private hands, but the parking lot has been roped off.
( Yup,,, the only part the FEDS control)

These are the actions of the spoiled rotten man child, throwing a temper tantrum.
" If I don't get my way,,, ALL of you will be sorry!"

And you gotta love the # they use for signing up for the unaffordable care tax.
"1-800- F***yo".... Now there is some actual honest advertising from government.
And now a free "O"phone is given with each new sign up. Get yours,,,, while supplies last,, ( that would be the lubricant before you " get yours".)

MikeL

Walt,

Check out coyoteblog. He runs public parks and campgrounds for the government and actually pays money into the US treasury. The Oh is going to shut his operation down.

Walt

Not surprised in the slightest Mike,, "O" and Co. are out to hurt the nation, just out of spite.
But if you hear the LIBS speak today,, this is all the Tea Party's fault.
They are closing the places that don't get a dime from government.

Michael Anderson

George, please don't insult my intelligence with placating language. I find that approach to be offensive, which I suppose is my entire problem with this blog. As I said a couple of days ago, I am trying to tie up loose ends here so you guys can twist and spin without my ad hominem to make things worse. But I feel, once again, that I'm stuck to the tar baby, so I guess I'll persevere until I feel unstuck. I then my sabbatical will begin, at least until you get the Wordpress site working.

The "fish" wrote: "Here's the deal 'Michael'....
- I'm not a 'right winger'.
- You started with the threats."

1. Why would you put my name in quotation marks? That's just a bizarre response to the fact that you refuse to come out of the closet and I have been out of the closet for years.

2. Well, you sure write like a winger. But I would love to have a cup of coffee with you and we can go around the track on this subject. As I have always claimed in this space, we are more alike than we think, but with the current structure of blogs and social media (and an antiquated and horribly broken political system), we become hard-coded ideological islands. It's a problem, and if our various generations alive today can help to get it fixed, that would be a great gift to humanity.

3. Well, I thought you started it. But fine, let's do a reset. No harm, no foul. Can we put down the rocks and try to have an adult conversation? I am eager to try.


Michael A.

George Rebane

MichaelA 1051pm - My language is placating only to the extent that you demonstrate your misunderstanding of what I post. I was surprised by your comments given they came from someone who understood the subject of this post. But then again, that is an example of how fundamental the country's split has become.

Michael Anderson

Sorry George, I'm not convinced. I think we have a basic and fundamental failure to communicate. While we ponder that, let's let some really great motorcycle riders do the talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kTYGmjgSMv8

Todd Juvinall

MA 10:51 said,

"George, please don't insult my intelligence with placating language."

Not possible, one must possess it to insult it.

fish

1. Why would you put my name in quotation marks? That's just a bizarre response to the fact that you refuse to come out of the closet and I have been out of the closet for years.

Not bizarre at all.....If you look at how my response was structured it was presented that way to mimic yours, 'Here's the deal, "fish." ' followed with my entirely predictable, 'Here's the deal "Michael"....'. When I left things here yesterday I'm pretty sure Greg was trying to have Steve removed from his position at the questionably named "Sierra Business Council". I wouldn't put it past some to attempt something similar with me were I to post with my real name. I'll post soon enough using my real name.


2. Well, you sure write like a winger. But I would love to have a cup of coffee with you and we can go around the track on this subject. As I have always claimed in this space, we are more alike than we think, but with the current structure of blogs and social media (and an antiquated and horribly broken political system), we become hard-coded ideological islands. It's a problem, and if our various generations alive today can help to get it fixed, that would be a great gift to humanity.

You say I write like a "winger"..... well let's see..... I'm pro-legalization (and have said so on a couple of occasions in this forum), utterly indifferent to gay marriage (actually more pro than not due to the reduction in revenues to FedGov...even though that reduction in a very general sense would be bad for me personally), I think it would be just swell to radically reduce our military presence overseas and spend far less on "defense"! (and have said so publicly here), I find the domestic intelligence gathering carried on by the various three letter agencies to be abhorrent and almost certainly illegal, and finally, I have no beef with "Burning Man" and believe I wished you safe travels on your last visit.

Under almost any definition of "winger" these opinions are all instant DQ's.

3. Well, I thought you started it. But fine, let's do a reset. No harm, no foul. Can we put down the rocks and try to have an adult conversation? I am eager to try.

Frankly I no longer know who started what. If I started anything then I publicly offer an apology for doing so. What I did not do was make or offer any threat and I do not believe that when you made the statement in question that it was offered in jest.

Until George asks me to leave this forum, all here can expect my complete and untempered opinion when I choose to offer it.

Todd Juvinall

I know a Joe Fish here in Nevada County. I would suggest you are right Joe that MichaelA would sick the HSA on you if he knew who you were. Anyway, talking to him is like talking to a 5 year old anyway. Anyone going to Burning Man has to be very immature so I give no credence to him.

Michael Anderson

Thank you, fish, for your reply. I stand corrected on my many different things here, and I appreciate you taking the time to set the record straight. I also better understand your need for anonymity and appreciate that as well.

I also publicly apologize to you for writing what you perceived to be a direct threat. I wrote that based on what I knew would be a sure button-pusher--to stop what I perceived as bullying--and while I am still surprised that anyone would think that someone on this forum could dial up the DHS for a visit, I do apologize for going over the top.

fish

Fair enough Michael....we begin anew.

....and Todd c'mon...it's just a party.

Gregory

Michael, imagine if you'd followed your over the top threat toward's me with a retraction and an apology. You know, this one:
"Let it be known that people like you pose the greatest danger to life on earth, and we are cataloging your behavior in real time. People like you--educated, but toadies for the evil life killers of the planet for whatever reason--are high on the target list."

He was writing as mandersonation at the time but as the only google hits for that was for a Michael Anderson at the virtually non-existent Nevada City Free Press, it wasn't anonymous. I was also using my name so I wasn't anonymous. And as far as my name here, most everyone here knows my last name, including Frisch.

No, I have no expectation of getting Frisch fired, just a talking to by someone on his Board at the most; an officer of a prominent (a stretch perhaps, but let's be nice) local 501c3 shouldn't be flinging libels per se at anyone. I did write him privately as he requested and I have several scenarios in mind regarding why he's not responding, raging from realistic to optimistic. I know enough to make a valid contact already but going through the front door would be nice.

The libel per se is a nice feature of civil law; if you're arguing in public it's a real good idea to stop short of crossing that bright line.

George Rebane

gregory 1245pm - I must have missed that quote by MichaelA; can you provide a link? I consider it sinister and scary because 1) I'm enough like you to also be "high on the target list", and 2) people like MichaelA abound, and when they get the power they seek, people like me (and you) will suffer mightily. The Rebane family history is replete with such outcomes. I think about it a lot as I write RR, and know that I'm being 'catalogued' by this generation's bolsheviks (the Internet is forever). Oh well.

Todd Juvinall

When the NAZI's took France and installed the Vichy it is my understanding there were some turncoats who favored the Nazis. After the Nazi's left through force, the French people grabbed those turncoats and did terrible things to them Mostly because the turncoats were informing and that was not a good thing for the turncoats.

Gregory

George, he didn't post that disgusting screed here, that was at TheUnion blog and my wife was literally shaking at the entirety of it. Neither Michael Anderson nor mandersonation ever apologized and retracted it, publicly or privately.

If you want, I'll send you a copy.

Paul Emery

George 1:05

Are you referring to the way the FBI went after Martin Luther King, trying to set him up as a Communist. How about Nixon's "enemy" list.


Arnold Picker
Alexander Barkan
Edwin Guthman
Maxwell Dane
Charles Dyson
Howard Stein
Allard Lowenstein
Morton Halperin
Leonard Woodcock
S. Sterling Munro, Jr.
Bernard T. Feld
Sidney Davidoff
John Conyers
Samuel M. Lambert
Stewart Rawlings Mott
Ron Dellums
Daniel Schorr
S. Harrison Dogole
Paul Newman
Mary McGrory

fish

No, I have no expectation of getting Frisch fired.....

Then I retract my earlier statement.

Gregory

"I wrote that based on what I knew would be a sure button-pusher--to stop what I perceived as bullying"
-MA

In short, if Mike doesn't like what you say, he'll write just about anything to slap you down.

The dark threat against me was over global warming as he had drunk the IPCC koolaid. He went on to state:

"Dumping carbon is evil, just like dumping sewage into a river is evil. If you can't agree to that, we have a major problem."

This is the sort of thing Michael Anderson resorts to when he decides someone else is being a bigger bully than he is, or at least a more effective communicator of a point of view he doesn't like.

Gregory

But wait, there's more!

"But let's examine really what that's all about. In interviews with normal German citizens after WWII, for those who did not support the Nazis, the singular sentiment was that they did not do enough to stop the onslaught of the desecration of civilization. They thought the Nazis would just go away. ... I submit that this is what we are now witnessing in the USA. And so, those who deny the problems we face, I confront them with the proper extreme opprobrium. It is the only way to ensure that brown shirts aren't sauntering down Broad Street."
1/17/2009 9:51 PM PST by mandersonation on theunion.com

Todd Juvinall

Gregory, MA is a troll and probably is missing a spine. No worries.

George Rebane

PaulE 151pm - No not at all. An amazing comparison. Paul, I know that you don't know what I'm talking about, and fear that your knowledge of your own assertions suffers similarly.

Al

To the esteemed George,

Homage

She built a small fire everyday
Sometimes it was just in her mind
It was a focal point for to pray
She chanted - Thanks - softly in kind

She lived simply cooked her food
With gleaned sticks from the wood
Everything is provided as a resource
In life's lessons she studied the source

She orphaned was bright clean and taut
Needs were met not wanting alot
Exploring gardening tending planning
Deep experience gained while tanning

She one day finally met her man
He came from a far conflicted land
Union came Life dancing for hours
They made a family in the flowers

She lived and loved years in her woods
Sadly they must now pack their goods
The people have changed Let's be quick
To the northwest well away from the sick

She was practiced and kept her brood well
They all made it through their long travail
A brisk new wooded land with so much to do
First a fire for - Thanks - then for some stew . . .

She shone and was sadly pyred several thousand years ago
Her great line has since spread light around the globe
The ever-following sick are again imposing their ill will
- Thanks - there's a new northwest discerning awaitng still

Michael Anderson

George, all of those comments that Greg continues to cite were posted anonymously by me, they were not aimed at Greg in particular, and they are completely taken out of context, as I have said before. Greg gets to choose exactly what he wants to select out of a many-day string of comments on global warming and many other subjects presented in The Union articles from the early months of 2009, going on 5 yrs. ago. I've already explained this numerous times on RR, but I guess I will continue having to do that whenever Greg decides to stalk and libel me. It's nothing short of character assassination, Greg knows that it is, and he continues doing it because it gives him some sort of sick pleasure.

As proof, just notice that this latest string of hate comes as the result of a public apology I made to fish. I wasn't even talking to Greg. I think that's pretty weird.

BTW, Greg claims that I was not posting anonymously because he was able to associate my name with mandersonation and the Nevada City Free Press. That is a lie, I never used that name in association with my circa-1998 e-zine Nevada City Free Press, I always used my real name. Greg had to do some searching on the Internet to tie the two together, which he claims only took him two seconds. Whatever, there was effort involved and the average reader of a comments section would not have done what he did.

Greg broke the commenting rules at The Union by attaching my name, and threatening my business, to stuff that was just an anonymous flame-war ad hominem bullshit. He was rebuked by The Union staff and told to knock it off after I filed a formal complaint. All of Greg's comments were deleted on The Union site by the staff: they agreed that Greg broke the rules. Of course, that doesn't prevent him from re-posting them here, ad nauseum, whenever his pathosis gives rise.

Greg has a deep need to find things that he can grind his monkey up against, it's just who he is. He does it all the time on RR. It's not going to get fixed, ever, and I have made my peace with it. I would hate to carry Greg's inner demons, and I sincerely hope that someday he is able to end his personal suffering.

Michael Anderson

And a personal note to you, Greg:

I guess what got under your skin was that fish responded to my over-the-top comment with an under-the-top response that was reasonable and actionable. I didn't even need to go have coffee with him. I was able to take a measure of the man via his sincere words, and I responded accordingly.

This is directly opposite to how you handled your outrage at my comment almost 5 yrs. ago. You attached yourself to me like a leach, and you have been trying to suck me dry ever since then. After several long discussions with a very good libel lawyer, who I assure you would have made your life extremely miserable, I came to the sound conclusion that a lawsuit was exactly what your inner tar baby wanted, and so I have decided that I will never sue you, or engage with you in any way that feeds whatever it is that makes you tick.

As you will remember, I offered via a private email to meet with you in person in early 2009 to try to works things out, but you would have nothing to do with such a meeting. That should have been a strong indicator to me that what you sought from me, and so many others, was the grist not the grain.

Regarding your current issues with Steve Frisch, I think you should be very careful with how you tread these waters. Do you have any idea who is even on his board? Do you have a clue about how they perceive your attacks on their organization? I also wholeheartedly suggest that you do some serious boning up the recent release of DSM-5, it's important to note the many categories of upset suggested in those pages. I am certainly not someone who is suggesting that you are personally stricken with any of those categories, but I guess that is the road that you and Steve have chosen, and I hope for your sake that you have done your due diligence.

Lastly, I just wanted to re-iterate that I work very hard to keep you out of my head, and that is a path that I think is going to be very healthy for me. For your own health and welfare, I suggest that you do the same.

Todd Juvinall

Now how can Greg keep himself out of his own head? Too funny.

Gregory

"Greg broke the commenting rules at The Union by attaching my name, and threatening my business, to stuff that was just an anonymous flame-war ad hominem bullshit."


Bull. The name I attached was simply Mike, and I didn't "threaten your business". Yuri Beri, The Union sportswriter and blog supervisor, was sympathetic to your cause and erased the messages that referred to you as "Mike", and then adult supervision came in and erased all of your threatening ones a couple days later. I'm assuming you made copies of my offensive posts; your case among the readers here might be strengthened were you to share those offensive words, but to date all you offer is your interpretations.

I've quoted you extensively; your turn.

This was at about the time Pelline was let go; I've no idea how much of the FUE's gung ho global warming cheerleading had anything to do with the tone of blog supervision.

Both you and Frisch seem to be stuck in this rut of "Gregory as someone who needs psychiatric help"; let me save others the googling, DSM-5 is the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fifth edition". In short, Mike is doing indirectly what Frisch did with reckless abandon... tell me I need professional help. Frisch even prescribed medication.

Again, I'll consider the source and act upon that appropriately.

"Lastly, I just wanted to re-iterate that I work very hard to keep you out of my head, and that is a path that I think is going to be very healthy for me."

Good luck with that. Let me assure you that minutes from now, you'll be completely out of mine, but I'll notice you the next time your write something threatening or self serving in the blogosphere. Again, let me thank your for continuing your campaign here against what you perceive as right-wing bullies, using much the same language you used against me in the past. I think it did wonders to give perspective.

Michael Anderson

Greg, I've deleted my GG folder. You may continue tilting at windmills, if that is what gives you serotonin squirts. Carry on.

Gregory

Mike, with luck that is your first step towards recovery.

Bill Tozer

Dr Rebane's update, Sunday, October 6:

Here is a biased link that I found informative. Perhaps Dr. Rebane's suspicions about a conspiracy of the failure of Obamacare is planned to bring on single payer is not unfounded. Single payer should be in the "Time To Live Forever" category cause there ain't no turning back and it will outlast Mount Shasta.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ernest-istook-knowing-inside/2013/oct/4/obamacare-has-become-un-affordable-care-act/

My suspicion bubbles to the surface when the gobberment doesn't release the figures of how many have actually enrolled. Can't release the figures? More like WON'T. Sure, they can give us a minute by minute scorecard of how many hits the site is getting. High deductibles are the only way to make it "quasi affordable". So, you got a 10k deductible on top of a higher copay AND monthly premium? No thanks. Not a good deal in exchange for a free wellness check. Like, you are out of pocket thousands of dollars anyway, which is not affordable. At least on my meager earnings.

I enjoyed the above link. Suppose Mr. Jones would grudgingly admit that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Guess our Federal Government (with the computer systems of the NSA, IRS, FBI, DOJ, DOD, and the host of alphabet soup agencies) somehow just can't apply that expertise to the ACA software system. Yeah, right,

Insiders admit that if 16% of the uninsured enroll, it would be a victory. Hmmm. 16% of the uninsured? How about 99%.

Under the law of unintended consequences, Blue Shield/ Blue Cross announced that it is receiving record amount of inquires for individual private coverage from states where it is not participating on the individual coverage exchanges.

Russ Steele


Reference the 6Oct Update. Here is some evidence for incompetence:


The administration's explanation didn't impress a Bush administration official who helped launch Part D in 2006.

"Whoever thought it would draw 60,000 people wasn't reading the administration's press releases,'' said David Brailer, former national coordinator of health care information technology. "The Medicare Part D site was supposed to have 20,000 simultaneous users and was (built for) 150,000, and that was back when computing was done on an abacus. It isn't that hard."

The web page (now removed) and press releases mentioned free health care. Free attracts people like bees to honey. All the freeloaders in "Fishtowns" across the nation attempted to log on to see what they could get for free. What is it these liberals do not understand about human nature. Or, maybe they do and under building was on design.

George Rebane

RussS 458am - Good point. My 859am comment on 'Ruminations - 3oct13' is apropos -
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/10/ruminations-3oct13.html?cid=6a00e54f86f2ad8833019affd507c2970c#comment-6a00e54f86f2ad8833019affd507c2970c

Bill Tozer

The darling of the media?? Opps. Updated oppps

http://reason.com/archives/2013/10/04/obamacare-chad-henderson-father

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