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23 October 2013



Reported by Kudlow earlier today... the prime contractor for the Obamacare website is claiming some of the problems are due to the White House insisting on a major change with less than a month before going live... requiring someone to fill out a complete application before they are allowed to see prices. The original design would have allowed browsing of the plans.

Sounds like the WH knew there would be sticker shock.

Russ Steele

As a software development contractor for the government we often bid the contracts at the break even point, or even a little lower to assure a win, because we knew the government only had a vague idea of what they really wanted and that there would be multiple engineering change proposals, which would be added to the contract as the procuring agencies changed their minds and ask for some not in the original contract. As the profit margins grew beyond acceptable levels for the government auditors, we would offer the government an unexpected benefit to keep from being accused of exploitation.

It was not unusual to have change orders coming in right up to the delivery date. It appears that the software development for ObamaCare followed the typical pattern of government procurement, not knowing what they really wanted they kept changing system right up to delivery date. In government software procurement the two performance measurements are on time deliver and on cost. The costs was blown by the engineering change proposals, to they stuck to the delivery date as the last remaining performance parameter.

It appears that ObamaCare followed the typical government software procurement cycle. On time deliver was paramount, no one gave a sh*t if it worked or not, it had to be delivered on time. When the budget started to over run the first thing they cut was testing. Besides, it was impossible to test software that was changing right up to the delivery date.

The real question is, did the ObamaCare team get what they were asking for, a system that was destined to fail? The issue is, was the failure generated by the procurement process or was it by design. One has to wonder, why hire a software development company with a huge failure record if you wanted the resulting system to perform flawlessly right out of the box? Were the stream of engineering change proposals and the forced schedule all part of scheme to force a failure? My guess is that the replacement system will have a hidden switch, which will turn it in to a single payer management system with a simple flip of switch. Obama will have the systems that he really wanted in the first place.

Michael Anderson

Wow, more fever dreams from George and Greg.

Greg, thanks for troubleshooting the website problems for us. What's really amazing is that all of the websites that I have ever been even remotely responsible for have gone perfectly every single time, so yes, this is a real shocker that Ms. Sebelius screwed the pooch so badly.


What really amuses me to no end is that these idiot Republican website critics have their aids print out their emails so they can read them, since they have no idea how to use technology. And yet they still express gross umbrage that the technology is not perfect during the first few weeks. These people are complete assholes, and they are not worthy of our thoughts.

George wrote: "For this, HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius should be impeached and then criminally prosecuted."
What an incredibly ridiculous statement. Here's the irony, George. For the states that chose not to implement their own exchanges, they are the ones suffering under the federal glitches. And now they are complaining. Fuck those states. Fuck them up the ass, and then leave them rode hard and put up wet. You pay a political price for being a fucking asshole. Eat your putrid self-satisfying stew, smug red states, and stop your boring and tawdry mewling. These people are damn lucky we are not collapsing their itty bitty economies with suffocating economic sanctions. Who's the Ayatollah in Alabama we can contact to let them know we are no longer going to ship them lettuce, orange juice, and machine parts until they pull their heads out of their ass?

George wrote: "...the GOP might even come out of this smelling like a rose as the putrid mess begins to sink under its own weight." Another fever dream with no foundation whatsoever. I was in the Bay Area last weekend and there is so much money floating around there that it doesn't know where to go. But this time it even seems sustainable, unlike the blips in 2000 and 2006; when was the last time you met with anyone from Sand Hill Road, George? You seem to be incredibly out of touch with the real world.

George wrote: "As someone said, ‘Elections have consequences.’" Yes they do. And the next ones are going to spank the Republicans even harder unless they get their house in order. I could care less, I am a registered Republican and not a Democrat, I love that the extreme right wingers in this country are getting heavily spanked, and have a nice day.


Michael Anderson

Sorry Russ, for not including you in my fever dreams comment. Really? This all about going to single payer? One can only hope. But I am sure it is nothing more than Occam's Razor, just a crappy job done under adverse conditions. Move along, nothing to see here.

Bill Tozer

OK, you all should know a dirty little secret I have kept from ya'll: I ain't no fan of Obama nor Obamacare. There, I finally said it. Whew, I feel better.

Rather than post any of the hundreds of links out there, I will just make 2 points.

First, forget about the web site and its launching problems. Millions of folks are finding out their premiums are going up, their co-pays are going up, and their deductibles are going up. All this to insure 15 million of the 30 million uninsured. I have spoken to 3 fine ladies who are uninsured. They all said the same thing. "Go pound sand, Obama. I will pay the penalty." Well, they didn't actually say pound sand, but I don't feel like repeating F-bombs tonight. Them women folk are getting all riled up I tell ya. Its going to get ugly when they get hysterical. Not pretty I can assure ya.

Second, its Obama's lack of leadership on this and almost every issue. No rallying the troops to get on board with Syria (thank goodness). Still, it was like he was a spectator to the Syrian issue, not getting Congress and the American people on board which he could have as all Presidnets do.
Its like he in not engaged and is hunkered down in the White House "win at any cost mentality", yet is absent from the process. I believe it bores him or he finds politics uninteresting. He did not even focus hard on the Stimulus nor creating jobs nor even knowing the details of Obamacare, his signature legislation.

Sure, No Drama Obama has his own style, as each President does. But, where is he now? Is he rallying the folks and burning up the phone lines kickin' butt and leading?
Hiliary Clinton of all people put it best concerning her observations of the current Administration. "There is no hand on the till." I can't best that for clarity or bevieity. Even when Clinton was Prez, he was always on the phone calling lower level bureaucrats to see what was really going on and get a pulse for things. He was engaged and found it fun to mediate disputes and talk to rivals. But this dude in the White House now just seems to say pass the Stimulus, ok done. Pass healthcare reform, ok done. Pass green initiatives, ok done. Going to Libya, ok done. He will walk into a buzz saw on immigration reform IF he does not roll up his sleeves and get the American people and Congress behind him and lead AND spend every waking moment getting his hands dirty. Don't seem to be his style.

It is exactly because of this lack of leadership and engagement is the reason some are calling for the heads of Holder, Sebelius, Tiny Tim G. Obama is just too distant, too removed from the process and allows other to lead instead of him. So of course Obamacare will be a far bigger disaser than just a bad launch. It has no direction.

Michael Anderson

Bill Tozer,

I cannot disagree with much of what you have written. A good analysis. Obama is not much of a president, and he can't seem to get out of his shell.

That being said, PPACA has taken on a life of its own, and it is the signature legislation of his presidency. Even if he doesn't care to protect it, his minions are heavily invested and they number in the the tens of thousands.

That is why it is futile to fight against it. The only hope is for bipartisan reforms.

Michael A.

Account Deleted

Michael A at 9:28: say, fella - you sound a bit vexed. You wanted Obama care and it was implemented. Now, you're frothing at the mouth. It's not just the states that opted out. It's the whole deal. Google CGI and the HHS. HHS had claimed that it was a competitive bid and there were 4 other companies. Just another frikkin' lie on top of all the other lies. The D's are already starting to cave and will pass what the 'radical' Tea Party was trying to do before O'Blabber selectively shut down parts of the fed gov.
Sorry George - the R's don't look good on this, since they caved and decided to wimp out. Only the ones that fight no matter what for the correct course get credit. This nation has gone off the financial cliff. It might be that it's too late, but that's no excuse to compromise and negotiate about our velocity to the bottom of the cliff.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Anderson, thank you kindly for the generous words. Yes, the Affordable Health Care Act is here and it is law. That is where I am coming from. Much to your dismay, I believe Obamacare will be dismantled and that would be the best reform. I also agree with Mr. Steele's fears that Obamacare is just a step to single payer by design. Once the ACA crashes and burns, Single Payer will be the only option, if not in the next election cycle or two, then somewhere down the line. Good ole' Harry Palms Reid said so, and he said so to PBS. Its not like we are eavesdropping on him. Obamacare is just a rest stop on the road to Single Payer.

I agree with Dr. Rebane that we are pass the tipping point concerning acceptance of socialist mindsets, ideals, and now familiarity. Over half the population likes it that way.

With all that said, why is the Obamacare website a colossal failure? Lets play Ross Peret and open the hood and see what is wrong with the engine, shall we?

1) The Canadian contractor used (CGI??) has had previous problems in Canada for not delivering the goods to the Canadian Government. The reason they were chosen/not vetted had to be a political decision. Bad ju-ju.

2) CGI (?) farmed the work out to Indian technicians. Them folks from India are brilliant, but they hired low level programmers not the cream of the crop. It was these low level programers that did the lion's share of the work. Heck, a dozen top of the top notch designers and techie boys and girls could have a better job in a small office left alone for 6 months.

The programs themselves have spelling errors. Fruit of the poison tree.

A novel idea was used. When someone tries to enroll in Obamacare, massive government files are downloaded on the USER'S computer. This idea was supposed to save the Government's computers for storing huge files and file sharing space. Unfortunately, when the user computers were talking to the Government computers (i.e., massive files talking to massive files)the system was not built to handle the load. Thus the glitches, freezing and crashes.

The web site has to be torn down, not patched. Scrapped. Treat it as used ass wipe. Adios amigo, long time no come see.

Those I know who have had a relatively easier time finding out their options are for health insurance have done so by phone. Now, that's a good old fashioned way to doing things. Faster than snail mail and much faster than staring at the blue wall of death on a computer scene.

Wonder what codes those files on the user's computers contain. Might be wise to close your laptop or turn your computer towards the wall when you and the little lady are making hay.

Bill Tozer

Opps, how silly of me. I forgot to mention the training the contractor used for programmers was a 2 hour course. In by 8:00am, out by 10:00am. What possibility could go wrong with dat? Well, at least some state run exchanges let you see your options before giving them you SS number and all personal info, lol.


The first bipartisan reform for Obamacare may well include delaying the personal mandate, led by a bunch of Democratic senators who are up for reelection in Nov '14.

If that happens, it will probably transfer blame for the "shutdown" of 17% of the Federal Government (like the panda cam and other major expenditures) to Obama and Reid.

The delicious part of the A team coming to the rescue of Obamacare dot com is this maxim from that grand piece of Computer Science knowledge, The Mythical Man-month: "Adding people to a late software project makes it later". This has been proven so many times over the last half century it's funny to see the same fire drill taking over once again... but what else is an angry President to do?

Need a baby in one month? Get nine women to working on it right away!


They spent $394,000,000 on the website, according to the GAO. The website does not work, which according to one commenter here is because of 36 States who should or do have anal sex decided not to participate in Oh care. Oh please ....

The main question should be will Eric The Holder sue to get our money back?

George Rebane

Regarding MichaelA’s 928pm – As stated in the post’s update, Michael supplied the sought for liberal apology for Obamacare’s shortcomings through a most enthusiastic and revealing rant.

We note he gave no material reply to these shortcomings and Obamacare’s disastrous launch. But he did attempt to educate the reader as to the realities of website development and then went off the rails with his logic connecting the fortunes of the Republican party with his presumption of my knowledge of the current status of Sand Hill venture capitalists.

Sad to say, I have watched MichaelA joust with RR readers ranging from the technically knowledgeable to astute on these pages, and have always come away somewhat puzzled as to the depth of his own knowledge. In his 928pm comment he has greatly resolved my questions about that.

During my career (see RR bio) I have been privileged to be at the center of designing, developing, and testing several large scale systems whose operation involved multiple realtime inputs from multiple users, sensors, and other platforms. The systems have all been life critical in that they were required to access and process massive amounts of data quickly and correctly. Elsewhere in these pages I have outlined the life cycle of such systems.

In my commercial career I have been equally involved in the design, development, and maintenance of online systems including several websites of functional complexity that exceed that required for interfacing with Obamacare applicants. My last go-around in this arena was with BizRate.com which then was the world’s largest ecommerce concentrator that fielded hundreds of thousands of complex user sessions daily while accessing massive data bases fed by thousands of retailers – one of them containing virtually all the retail SKUs in America. The tracking and analysis of user session behaviors that I and my team developed gave rise to the field now known as web analytics. I was invited speaker at numerous universities and conferences talking and teaching the care and feeding of large scale websites. There is more, but this should suffice for now. (BTW, the sale of BizRate.com for more than an half billion dollars was announced on the front page of the WSJ.)

Even though nominally retired, I am today closely involved with a new venture funded dotcom start-up that again fields an interactive website that is tied to multiple, some massive, databases. The rapidly growing company is now in its second year and creating more jobs in the local area. We talk with VCs, including Sand Hill, on a regular basis. (When did MichaelA last talk to Sand Hill?)

By this short summary I mean to give basis to my conclusion that whatever fields MichaelA claims expertise in, they do not include any of the technical or managerial areas involving systems and the internet in which I claim expertise.


It great having a computer wizard in the family.
The "safe and secure" gov. website has more spy programs imbedded
in it than the NSA has in China. Here are just some my "kid" came up with.
Those connections just to get front page loaded

"Apply online" button

to get to the "select your state" dropdown box and "apply online" button
The page text indicates "security" There is none with that long list of snooping websites hiding in the background.

Then what do I hear during the grilling of the "programmers"?
"Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president of CGI Federal Inc., the company that built the Obamacare health-insurance exchange website, on language hidden in source code that says applicants have “no reasonable expectation of privacy.”
“This is the part of the signup that is hidden," said Barton. "The applicant does not see this, but it is in the source code, and what that blue highlighted area that’s been circled in red says is: ‘You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transmitting or stored on this information system."

Ryan Mount

> more spy programs imbedded

The site you list above are mostly Google properties that provide analytics. It'd perfectly appropriate to insinuate those into a website not only to track trends, but also to help proactively deal with issues such as load and scaling.

I would invite those to consider that these are not spy programs, but standard web best practices. if one is worried about such things, simply re-route these sites to null/localhost on your computers. Or buy one of the myriad of apps that will do this for you. You may not like the results, BTW.

Not to mention Google's reporting infrastructure can easily handle this site, so in that regard, the government did well. Elsewhere, it's a mess. If they would have done proper load testing, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because it wouldn't be live.

Todd Juvinall

Watched some CSPAN hearing on the IT people this morning. No one knows anything. 500 million or more, poof!

Russ Steele

John McAfee, founder of anti-virus company McAfee, Inc, on the ObamaCare exchanges:

On Fox Business Network’s “Cavuto” on Wednesday, October 2nd, computer programmer and founder of McAfee, Inc. John McAfee said the online component of Obamacare “is a hacker’s wet dream” that will cause “the loss of income for the millions of Americans who are going to lose their identities.”

For starters, McAfee said the way it is set up makes it possible for fake websites be set up to fool people to think they’re signing up for Obamacare.
“It’s seriously bad,” McAfee said. “Somebody made a grave error, not in designing the program but in simply implementing the web aspect of it. I mean, for example, anybody can put up a web page and claim to be a broker for this system. There is no central place where I can go and say, ‘OK, here are all the legitimate brokers, the examiners for all of the states and pick and choose one.’”

“Instead, any hacker can put a website up, make it look extremely competitive, and because of the nature of the system — and this is health care, after all — they can ask you the most intimate questions, and you’re freely going to answer them,” he continued. “What’s my Social Security number? My birth date? What are my health issues?”

According to McAfee, there’s not a quick fix — and as long as it set up this way, it could be a playground for computer hackers.

“Here’s the problem: It’s not something software can solve,” McAfee continued. “I mean, what idiot put this system out there and did not create a central depository? There should be one website, run by the government, you go to that website and then you can click on all of the agencies. This is insane. So, I will predict that the loss of income for the millions of Americans who are going to lose their identities — I mean, you can imagine some retired lady in Utah, who has $75,000 dollars in the bank, saving her whole life, having it wiped out in one day because she signed up for Obamacare. And believe me, this is going to happen millions of times. This is a hacker’s wet dream. I mean I cannot believe that they did this.”

Obamacare's Federal Exchange code was all open source and could be copied for examination and use on your own machine at GitHub. [Link had been taken down] But the question is how many hackers down loaded all the site code before it was taken down. With the code inhand the hacker can find the security holes in the code, which according to McAfee numerious.

Ryan Mount

"No amount of testing within reasonable time limits can adequately replicate a live environment of this nature," Cheryl Campbell, senior vice president of CGI.

While there's some truth to that Ms. Campbell, that is no excuse. If this was the case, why did you and other pull the old Poke Yoke? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poke_yoke)

Also, we have these modern inventions called Math and Models that can aid in our performance analysis. We do it all the time here at IBM on projects that are as arguably as big as this one.

Reminds me of Bum Phillips:

"You fail all the time, but you aren't a failure until you start blaming someone else."

George Rebane

RussS 1237pm - what ranges from galling to comic are all the leftwing experts (national and local) who know so little about what has happened with the Obamacare website that they attribute all this to be a normal pathway to a fully functional fielded system. It is clear that none of them have come close to doing anything like this or even understanding how it is done. This morning's House testimony by a group of subcontractors was hilarious, especially when you add on Henry Waxman's coda. It was extremely clear that there was absolutely no adult supervision when it came to system integration and acceptance.

As announced here immediately after the attempt to activate the site on 1oct13, there were no "glitches" involved, only a massive engineering and administrative screw-up that was and continues to be wrapped up in layers of lies and, most likely, deeper corruption. It was so badly done that some now are making a case that no one could do that on purpose in the second decade of this millenium; that this had to be an intentional fuck-up to prepare for the main event - single payer socialist healthcare.

Account Deleted

Just heard Jay Carney claim the reason the govt didn't do any testing of the website was because they were sooooo worried about women with cancer and wanted to get it going as soon as possible. So, Jay - how's that working out? He also implied that only evil partisan naysayers would dare to ask questions about why we have a multi-hundred billion dollar (and counting) website that doesn't function.
Let's all keep in mind that the malfunctioning website is only the start of the issues that keep arising in this mess. Single payer, here we come.

Ryan Mount

Typo from earlier:


(note the 'a')

It's a good read on how to avoid defects which is perfectly applicable to the software development and deployment cycles.

Bill Tozer

The blame game is revving its engines. Love the smell of burning nitro as the dragsters fly down track to get out of Dodge. Dodge? Oh my, I will say pun intended even when unintended. Many are responsible, nobody is accountable.

I was too premature and foolish to blame CGI and its affiliates. I am sooo dumb I thought there was one contractor in charge of many subcontractors. I have been enlightened about my errant ways. There are 4 contractors, just CGI makes the headlines. 4. Not subs, 4 contractors. If one lead contractor can make a mess of things, what can four do?

I personally blame the Republicans for this. The White House was so paranoid that them evil Republicans terorists would sabatoge the site or worse (like asking questions) that the Administration no way could be transparent and kept the stiff upper lip moustache rides. Nothing to see here, all is well. Don't be a naysayer. Don't worry, be happy. They don't give out the Nobel Peace Prize for nuthin'. Tone down the rhetroic and go along to get along...

I think the Healthcare.com.gov.org.net site is doing pretty darn good. Definitely close enough for government work. Remeber boys and girls, you have to enroll by Dec 15th or the IRS will be a'coming for its "shared responsibility payments." Exciting times bro. Think I will turn up some old John Anderson and sit on the porch singing loudly "Just a'swinging." Life is good.

Michael Anderson

Russ wrote: "John McAfee, founder of anti-virus company McAfee, Inc, on the ObamaCare exchanges..."

Seriously? McAfee? Worst anti-malware software on the planet...well, maybe not as bad as Norton. Symantec and McAfee partner their extremely inferior products with places like Best Buy and Staples, that's the only thing that keeps them alive. Oh, and some CIOs in major corps who have been rogering Symantec and McAfee for so long that they don't even know they are married. Kind of a common law relationship, but still extremely dysfunctional.

George wrote: "Michael supplied the sought for liberal apology for Obamacare’s shortcomings through a most enthusiastic and revealing rant."

George, you keep trying to paint me as a liberal, and I resent it greatly. It really gets under my skin. Why? Because your meter is so far off base, and people keep telling you so, and you continue to indulge your selfish ideological "badges of shame" that are reductionist, inaccurate, and constructed in such a non-logical way that they fall away at the briefest first glance.

George, you did not address the fact that the states who did not want Obamacare are now complaining that they can't get it through the federal website. I am pretty sure that producing a bad website is a High Crime and/or Misdemeanor, so I am hoping that the Tea Party monkeys in the House are beginning the impeachment process. Obama must be impeached, any way that's possible. Yes?

Really? Hearings in Congress about a bad website that people didn't even want? Are you fucking kidding me? What a fucked up country I live in. Pathetic.

George wrote: "There is more, but this should suffice for now." Dude, if I had wanted to engage in a dick measuring exercise with you, I would have just said "hey George, can we meet at the Lady Bug restaurant next Wednesday, flop down our members on the tables for all to see, get out the tapes and be done with it?" Yeah, I didn't do that, and I have no intention of using my CV to make you look silly and stupid. Suffice to say, I was born and raised in the Bay Area, grew up in Los Altos Hills, and watched Silicon Valley emerge first hand. I could have bought the first round of Oracle stock when I worked as a contractor for them in 1985 (still kicking myself for not doing that). But whatever George, lay that member down if that is what you think is necessary.

George, you didn't really address my main question, which was to suggest that economic sanctions against the people are trying to destroy this country might be the best way to go: "Who's the Ayatollah in Alabama we can contact to let them know we are no longer going to ship them lettuce, orange juice, and machine parts until they pull their heads out of their ass?"

Yeah, you didn't answer that question. My entire point about bringing up the Silicon Valley was that here is a demographic that couldn't be more antithetical to your ideological nonsense and they are making money like almost no other place on the planet. You failed to address this fundamental disconnect.

From my perspective, you and yours are hindering the economic development of Nevada County, and I've pretty much had enough of it. Instead of spending so much time bashing the PPACA (or Obamacare if you insist, perhaps that derisive name makes your member grow), how about dealing with something that REALLY affects the county's economy, like lack of adequate broadband.

Michael A.

Russ Steele

One of the mild surprises that came out of congressional hearing on the Obamacare web site, was learning that a division of HHS insisted on being the systems integrator and only did two weeks of integration testing. I ran a software development lab that build systems integration tools for the Air Force for several years, and before that I led the team that wrote the design concept and the specification for the Extendable Systems Integration Environment for the Air Force Logistics Command. We build the prototype in Sacramento and then used this integration tool set on multiple aircraft. It became a standard for maintaining the systems integrity of weapon systems, including the B-2 Bomber. Given the complexity of the Obamacare web site and the number of systems that had to work together flawlessly, I would have wanted at least six months of testing, with more time added for each major change to the system. I nearly dropped my coffee on the keyboard when I learned this morning that they only tested the full systems for two weeks before going live. I would like to know how much systems integration experience the government integration team had. My guess not much!

Account Deleted

re: Michael -"George, you did not address the fact that the states who did not want Obamacare are now complaining that they can't get it through the federal website."
'States' don't sign up on the website Michael, individuals do. But they can't. We taxpayers are on the hook for this to the tune of close to a billion dollars now and it doesn't work. They had 3 years and they blew it. It goes way deeper than the web site. It turns out that the whole thing is a con. There was a reason they didn't want anybody to know what was in the bill before they passed it. The fact that Obama won't sign up for it himself should be a huge clue for everyone. Obamacare will greatly increase the cost of insurance for anyone who is a producer. The takers who used the emergency rooms for primary health care will be sucking up even more of your money. And Michael thinks it's all just peachy.

Michael Anderson

Greg's lack of self-control manifested itself in the following way:

"By mandersonation's 10:44PM, it's clear the 'Perhaps not' was prescient."

Nice use of the word, "prescient." You're welcome.

And then Greg followed with some further nonsense: "A second chance, Mike. Do you have nothing rational (look it up) to say regarding the 7 of 9 SCOTUS Equal Protection opinion in Bush v Gore, or did you just relish writing 'steaming pile' in relation to Scalia?"

First of all, I do not acknowledge that I get some sort of "second chance" from Greg Goodknight. The GG does not have standing in this regard. Yeah, the word "rational." Pretty complex, Greg. Are you sure that's what you wanted to write? And yes, I did rather enjoy placing "steaming pile" and "Scalia" next to one another. I know, childish. What can I say?

Getting back to the question at hand, which you did not answer, did all 7 justices invoke the 14th for the same reason? No, of course they didn't. Two of the seven wanted a total recount across the state, with consistent rules (as well as 4 of the 9). But hey, Dred Scott-type decisions are what they are. They create great chaos and calamity, and they cost a lot of people both blood and treasure. And then history announces its judgement and the people who supported the heinous behavior go down in the record books with great shame and opprobrium.

We are now in the accounting period of the exercise. In my book we had the worst president in the history of the Republic with GeeDub, and now we have a middle-of-the-roader in Obama who is doing a B+ to C- job, depending upon who you talk to, at least those who still have a functioning prefrontal cortex.

In the RR echo chamber, none of this matters. Have a nice time, wondrous people. Enjoy the fall colors. Have a beer at the Ol' Republic. Maybe I'll see you there but probably not. Stuck on your avocado couches. Sigh.

Michael Anderson

Scott, you are so not worth my typing fingers but I will give it a try nonetheless.

PPACA will not increase the cost of insurance for ME and MY BUSINESS. It has already REDUCED those costs. I know that this is the case for small business throughout Nevada County. So, given that our health care system has been dysfunctional for so many years, and we now are on a road to recovery, ass wipes like Scott O. just make me really irritated.

Scott, give it up buddy. You're just another closet racist sitting up on your church-y hill, hating the black man president and rolling those balls in your hand Captain Queeg-like, shivering and quivering in spiteful angst, looking over your shoulder for the boogeyman that will never come.

Get help.

Russ Steele

A thirty year IT expert Bruce Webster writes about Obamacare, IT, and magic thinking

"A very common pattern in a IT project such as the Healthcare.gov website is that those in the trenches know how bad things are, but those at the top don’t — or don’t want to know, leading to a phenomenon I noticed many years ago and named “the thermocline of truth“. What usually happens is that the ‘truth layer’ moves up the ranks as the scheduled deadline approaches, and the whole project is suddenly delayed just weeks or even days before going live.

Sometimes, however, the folks at the top insist that the system go live, even though everyone below them knows the system is not ready for prime time (or ready for late night or even ready for the wee small hours of the morning). They have this wishful belief that any “kinks” or “glitches” can be worked out after the system has launched, possibly by taking it off-line from time to time late at night or over weekends. They also believe that the vital importance of this system means that it just must somehow work, and that their sincerity and good intentions will overcome any technical issues.

This is, of course, feeble-minded crap. Software is very, very unforgiving, and if you haven’t taken the right approach to ensure proper functionality, performance, and quality, no amount of wishing and hoping and planning and dreaming is going to make it work right." My emphasis added.

It is time for the wishful thinking in the White House to end and let reality take over. Obamacare is going nowhere except into the black hole of all failed IT projects, along with the millions of wasted taxpayer dollars.

Account Deleted

So Michael thinks that since PPACA didn't increase HIS costs that proves his case for the entire country. Glad to hear you have lower costs for now, Michael. You might want to pay attention to those around you. I would like to know what data you have about the rest of small businesses in Nevada County. If they are under the threshold for the minimum number of employees (for now) then PPACA wouldn't even apply and they can eliminate their costs. What about their employees?
And thanks for the description of me based on what evidence? I'm printing it out to show my friends and family. You are an amusing fellow. Please keep posting here with your wit and intelligence. Saves me from going to Daily Kos and increasing their click count.

Todd Juvinall

He will pay the fine and boot his 5 employees. Voila, lower costs.


Todd, the President of ClientWorks is not going to boot his wife or himself, and the other three (assuming the website is accurate) are probably the ones doing most of the boring grunt work that pays the bills. It may well be that the particular mix of young and old in that little company does bring his cost down a bit... just enough of the younger to balance the cost of the gray hair at the top.

It also may not be a conforming Obamacare policy like an individual would have available, as companies have a one year waiver.

mandersonation, 11:34 "did all 7 justices invoke the 14th for the same reason? No, of course they didn't"

Yes, they did. All 7 noticed that the way the Florida Supremes was handling the recounts that Equal Protection for voters was violated, which is why they signed on to that opinion. Two of the seven didn't agree with the remedy decided by the majority (which iirc was to uphold a lower Florida Court decision the SCOFL threw out) and either did I: it should have been thrown to the Florida state legislature, the constitutional remedy for a failed election, but it wouldn't have made a difference in the end because at the time it was majority GOP with a GOP governor named Bush.

It should also be noted the Democrat who was the Chief Justice of the SCOFL, along with two other Democrats of the SCOFL in their dissent from the majority opinion of the other 4 Democrats of the SCOFL, that what they were doing was unconstitutional on, IIRC, 14th amendment grounds.

In short, despite all the huffing and puffing, the 14th and Equal Protection (not Outcomes) seems to be in good shape.


MA is apparently very happy about the size of his putz (9:08PM) but his business college IT bachelors and computer maintenance business experience doesn't compare with George's academic or professional background.

Todd Juvinall

Gregory, thanks for the info on MA. I will check out his website.

The Florida SCOTUS had decided to allow a recount in the two or three counties that Gore had won. They were allowing a fishing expedition. The US SCOTUS said the whole state had ro be recounted, every county. It was not really about a individual protection under the 14th but in my view a fairness issue of cherry picking a county return.

MA is obsessed with the privates of life isn't he?


"The argument Obama won in 2012 about the role of government has already been squandered. The Obamacare rollout is a disaster for progressive politics, says Kirsten Powers" in her latest DailyBeast op-ed


Ms. Powers, an Obama supporter, apparently got a reality check recently when *her* existing insurance policy was canceled and had to shop for a new ACA conforming policy. A relative youngster, an Obamacare policy that is roughly equivalent to her old individual policy will be about $300/mo, up from $160.


WEB design and government computer programs..... HHHUUmmmmmm. Where have we had issues that cost the taxpayers PLENTY more than once? OH.. YYAaaa.. Right HERE..
We all saw how cost conscious our drop in the bucket local politicians were, when they played with contracts, and "we know best" attitudes.
And it happened more than once. Now we can see the same nonsense, cost, and finger pointing on a national scale.

BTW.. I hear that the San Jose aria is planning to recall some people
over their anti gun votes. (OH goody goody !)More fireworks coming soon.
Sac. Bee? Not a word.(yet)

As you would expect, the LIBS are thumping their girly man chests down there
saying " You think you can recall one of us?? LOL!! Good luck."
Of course I couldn't let a comment like that go un answered.. " Uh,,, how did that work in your favor in Colorado?" ( I have yet to receive a response)

Todd Juvinall

George, didn't California have some debacles with computers? I recall welfare progra,s and the DMV. I think the DMV one was shelved after a gazillion bucks.

Michael Anderson

Dr. Haldol, Dr. Haldol, we have a man down in Ward 7! Stat!!

Bill Tozer

Web sites are not the real issue here, but it is fun to gab about our sheer astonishment on how bad is it getting and how counterproductive it will be. Mind blowing, jaw dropping and dumbfounding. Tickles the old back of the neck for sure. Wonder if Obamacare was what Chris Mattews was referring to when he said it gives him tingles down his leg. Or was that up his leg? How easily we forget. Only Uncle Sam could take the world famous Mustang Ranch and run it into bankruptcy.

The real point is that Obamacare, not the website, will be an overall disaster with each passing month. Each month more will be uncovered, discovered, and discarded by the good citizens of the USA. Don't see our Congress running out to sign up before the deadline, do you? Don't see 100s of thousands of union members standing on the overpasses of America's shooting blanks with their pants around their ankles in glee and celebreation, do you? Not a peep from the teachers unions either. Or Wall Stret. Or burger joints or shipping docks or the phone company dudettes or rice farmers. Well, maybe Sandra Fluke is busting open her clam over Obamacare, put this ACA thing in total is like a car heading down a mountain without brakes. And we are the passengers. Watch out below, INCOMING!

This is the same punk that feels so much distain for old crippled World War II vets that he went out of his way to bar them from a once in a lifetime journey to visit the open air Vets Memorial beofre they die off or can't make the journey. And it cost us taxpayers more money to get up barricades. This punk is named Obama and his signature legislation is called Obamacare. Obama Care? Care? Grip this punk.

Jesse Jackson was wrong when he said somebody should take a knife and cut Obama's gonads off. Hey Jesse, it would not have done any good. We already have a dickless man in the White House hiding from the Press and who would rather be in Las Vegas than the Situation Room as American boys are being dragged through the streets of Benghasi.
Can't blame us Republicans for this one. Obamacare is all yours, Eunich.

So, if you think you are nice and safe from ObamaCare cause you got Kaiser, think again:


Michael Anderson

Russ, thanks for your thoughtful comment regarding IT projects. This was the point I was trying to make rather inelegantly in my 9:28pm 10/23 comment. The HITECH rollout the past several years is a good example of that which you describe.

Michael Anderson

Tozer, my hero, wrote: "Grip this, punk."
And, "...a dickless man in the White House..."

Dude, welcome to the Member Museum. You have duly earned your space on the first floor. Well done, and high fives.

After all, for many who don't get it--and I will reiterate once again--RR is one of the finest comedy blogs on the entire Internet. It would actually be #1 if Scott Obermuller, who makes plants die when he walks by them (is it the pipe tobacco he uses??), would stop commenting here.

Michael Anderson

George, I have a comment to Russ that is stuck in the Typepad spam dungeon due to a link the guard didn't like. Please release the prisoner. Thanks.

Russ Steele


Effort to upgrade to California's payroll system failing. Reported Thursday, August 15, 2013. The 10-year effort to upgrade California's payroll system has been a disaster. After spending $254 million, it doesn't work, and may not be salvageable.

More at 11:00 News. Not really.

Michael Anderson

Todd wrote: "George, didn't California have some debacles with computers?"

Yes, apparently they have allowed the sale of computers to morons. A debacle.

Witness the fact that you must have a computer in order to run your echo-chamber lizard site, which is akin to leaving a loaded HK45 Compact Tactical in the local kindergarten next to the boxes of Crayolas. The fact that you were allowed to buy one on the open market is a travesty.

Computers should be registered and licensed, and then allowed for use only by those who can demonstrate basic competency. Todd, that ain't you, buddy, so it's time to do the responsible thing and turn in your computer to the proper authorities.

Russ Steele


February 14, 2013. Half-finished $208-million DMV technology overhaul canceled. The part of the project that was intended to revamp the process for registering vehicles was halted because little progress was being made, officials said.

September 28, 2013. California unemployment welfare system breaking down, workers receiving death threats for late 'benefit checks' Saturday, They still do not have it fixed according the report logs leaked to the press.

Things are going real well in California IT, as they flush our tax money down an black hole.

Michael Anderson

Todd wrote: "He will pay the fine and boot his 5 employees. Voila, lower costs."

Todd, this is actually libel. But the funny thing is, coming from you, it's anti-libel! Anything you say about me that is derogatory actually increases the value of my brand, because most of the people I know and respect in this county view your opinions as a good reason to do exactly the opposite.

So, continue to break the law and keep being Nevada County's iconic former supervisor lizard fellow. It is nature's way.

Michael Anderson

GG wrote: "Two of the seven didn't agree with the remedy decided by the majority."

Thank you for finally agreeing with what I have been trying to get across the past few days. Why is everything like pulling teeth with tweezers on this site?


"Dr. Haldol, Dr. Haldol, we have a man down in Ward 7! Stat!!"

I do hope your wife and sons are fans of your postings. Your boys especially should know how their father thinks Anderson family men should behave.

9:38PM MA, it's because you couldn't help but state it incorrectly, over and over; your difficulty here is due to the dark orifice your head is so often found.

The SCOTUS stopped the SCOFL from stealing the election, and Al Gore fans just can't get over losing.

Michael Anderson

Greg once again stuck his finger in an inappropriate location and pulled out a plum; "...and the other three are probably the ones doing most of the boring grunt work that pays the bills."

Seriously Greg? This is where you want to go? I have a dossier on your work history in Nevada County since you first arrived, as well as a detailed account of your pilot doings over the years. Remember, it ain't libel if it's true. Right?

You are a sad man, and you are a taker, not a giver, at least in your current form of dis-ease. Something deep inside is struggling to get some kind of affirmation that will never ever happen, and you are angry at the world. You lash out in these various forums, in hurtful and non-constructive ways.

I have been so sorely tempted to let your fellow commentators know all of the sordid details of the "GG in Nevada County story" but I still don't do it, despite your constant crossing of boundaries that make me want to respond appropriately.

Greg, have you ever thought about why I don't do that? I don't think you have, so I am going to tell you. It is because I was raised in a household where basic manners applied. You didn't speak ill of others, you did your level best to say your pleases and thank yous at all times, you didn't speak unless spoken to, and you were polite at all costs. For the past 5 years I have had this dossier with the facts that would re-characterize this entire discussion.

But I don't do it because it would be really bad manners.

And I will continue to hold back this information, regardless of your reckless actions. You are who you are, and I can't change it. So, go on being you. I know you say that I don't live in your brain, but your actions, words, and deeds speak otherwise. And as I have said before, I have empathy for you, truly I do. I hope that you can be a happier man before your travels on this planet come to the final end.

Peace out, bro.

Michael Anderson

Greg dribbled: "Your boys especially should know how their father thinks Anderson family men should behave."

They have been trained to have good manners. But when there are bullies around, you bloody their filthy little noses. Peace through strength and all that. Remember, I am a Republican. And though I don't abhor war, it is sometimes the only way to get rid of malevolent shitpiles who apparently have no redeeming value. Isn't that the history of the human race?

Keep crossing those lines, buddy. Have you ever read the various books by Miss Manners? She is good.


"I have been so sorely tempted to let your fellow commentators know all of the sordid details of the "GG in Nevada County story" but I still don't do it, despite your constant crossing of boundaries that make me want to respond appropriately."

There are no sordid details, Mike. You don't do it because there is no such story you can tell.

Michael Anderson

Whoops...typing too fast. I certainly DO abhor war in general, unless it is completely necessary.


"Seriously Greg? This is where you want to go? I have a dossier on your work history in Nevada County since you first arrived"

Oh, really? Do tell. A dossier? And you claimed to have erased your folders on me... so you're either lying now, or then. Which is it?

"as well as a detailed account of your pilot doings over the years. Remember, it ain't libel if it's true. Right?"

My pilot doings include never breaking a regulation, never being cited by the FAA or the NTSB, never being reprimanded by anyone. You won't find anything to the contrary and your innuendo really is libelous.

Bill Tozer

Best quote of yesterday:

Rep. Rick Nolan (D-Minn.) told reporters Wednesday that heads should roll and people should be fired because of the horrendous rollout. He also called on Obama to "man up" and explain to Americans who's responsible for the mess.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obamacare-website-rollout-democrats-joe-manchin-mandate-delay-2013-10#ixzz2inrIGDYG


My pilot doings in and around the local airport also include a couple years as a command pilot for Angel Flight, a charity that flies people in need, typically from a remote location to the big city for medical care, and back. I remember one was a young dreadlocked mother whose newborn baby was taken by air ambulance from Arcata to San Francisco, and her only option without an Angel Flight to reunite with her baby was to take an 11 hour bus ride, which she was in no condition to make. So I volunteered to fly her from Arcata to Oakland.

Other flights included a Grass Valley man getting cancer treatments at Stanford, and a woman from the Eureka area who needed a round trip to an ear specialist in Sacramento. And there were others.

Michael Anderson

"...and Al Gore fans just can't get over losing."

Yeah, not an Al Gore fan. Just someone who believes that the popular vote of the total electorate should decide presidential elections. One man, one vote. And that federal elections will someday soon have election standards that will keep corrupt counties, like those in Florida in 2000, from screwing up the entire country.

George W. Bush was the worst president in the history of the United States. A lot of people paid the ultimate price for his illegitimacy, and so many others were economically destroyed. I was not personally destroyed, but I took some pretty significant hits, and I look at the census blocks of those who put him into office as enemies of the United States of America. These people are not patriots, they are not good citizens, and we need to be aware of the damage they are doing to this great country.

The good news is that the demographic is changing rapidly, and all of the old battle guards who are still fighting the rift created by the Vietnam War are dying off. This country, under the rules of a living and breathing Constitution, will become more socialist, and fairness of opportunity will flourish. The old fascist guard, the same people who thought the Nazis kinda had the right idea but they just handled it very poorly, will be dead in the ground soon.

The largely libertarian and progressive Millennials know this deep in their souls. For me, the battle has been won. Recalcitrants like GG can hang on to their Dreg Scott decisions, but 50 or 100 years from now, they will be reviled for their hateful positions.

See you on the History Channel, buddy. Goodbye, Electoral College.

Michael Anderson

"A dossier?"
Total recall, it's memorized. Doesn't live and breathe, just an historical artifact.
Like an old fossil. In a drawer somewhere. Whatever.


Regarding CGI Federal, there's this tidbit in the news today:
"First Lady Michelle Obama’s Princeton classmate is a top executive at the company that earned the contract to build the failed Obamacare website.

Toni Townes-Whitley, Princeton class of ’85, is senior vice president at CGI Federal, which earned the no-bid contract..."

Just a coincidence...?


" I look at the census blocks of those who put [George Bush] into office as enemies of the United States of America. These people are not patriots, they are not good citizens, and we need to be aware of the damage they are doing to this great country."

So, Michael Anderson, do you refuse to take Republicans as clients?

Michael Anderson

"Just a coincidence...?"

Yeah, impeachment for sure.

Is another Vince Foster moment waiting in the wings?

The point I made the other day still has not been addressed. George chose to put his CV on his chest instead of dealing with the fact that the blue states are rolling in money as the economy improves, and the red states are suffering.

Me? Not a big fan of the red states, being a California west coast kinda guy. I like vibrant business, and I love growing economies. I also like capitalism. What I don't like are red state tards trying to destroy the recovery, and trying to destroy health care reform, and just generally whining and complaining whenever there is a Democrat in office. If you don't like it here, move the fuck away.

America, Love It Or Leave It.


Regarding Florida and the Bush-Gore election, had the election tally not been falsely called for Gore by the TV networks while polls were still open in west Florida, Bush II would have cleanly won Florida. That has been estimated as a 10,000 vote hit as people stopped going to the polls after being told their vote didn't count.

Michael Anderson

Greg wrote: "That has been estimated as a 10,000 vote hit as people stopped going to the polls after being told their vote didn't count."

Fair enough. Still doesn't address the fact that Gore won the popular vote. One man, one vote. Electoral College is going down, probably even in our lifetimes. Sooner rather than later if the Tea Party continues with its nonsense.

The big news in the coming two years will be how the deep Republican Party fracture plays out.

Todd Juvinall

Greg I went to MA's website and there seems to only be three employees. Nice pictures of the three but looking at MA's mug, I shuddered with dread. He reminds me of the movie I saw part of today. Boris Karloff played a zombie in the "Walking Dead" of 1936. MA, has a real close resemblance. I feel bad for his progeny. Shunning will be rampant. (except at Burning Man, perv heaven)

Gore lost the Electoral vote as the Founders set it up. MA doesn't like that apparently so he would rather have California and New Yoprk pick the Prez and Vice for the other states. Totally moronic.

But what can we do with a moronic IT guy? Oh, have him hired to do government work then no one will ever get something that works. Russ's info was superb. IT guys like MA have now become the baseball players on steroids. Everyone will hate them.

So, when I read moronic tripe by MA I am able to visualize those three employees, all white, hard at work trying to please the unpleasant boss of of a three employee biz. Too funny. BTW. I probably put many more dollars and had a lot more employees in the local economy than some lib posters here.

Todd Juvinall

Oh, one last thing. I watched and listened to Ted Cruz speaking to the Iowa Republicans today. He is a hit. Full of common sense and able to articulate his thoughts. The liberals and their press stenographers are quaking in their Birkenstock because Cruz is not stoppable in the quest for the truth. It was a good speech. Lots of applause. The left's polls are bullshit about him.

Michael Anderson

Greg asked: "So, Michael Anderson, do you refuse to take Republicans as clients?"

Wow, more boundary crossings. Greg, as I noted before, you are the one who continues to try to stop me from commenting by bringing my personal business into the discussion. This is why I brought up the issue of bad manners. You are basically pulling your pants down and shitting on my doorstep. And the site of your tiny little white ass on my doorstep, with runny poops from a bad diet brought on by poverty, is my worst Halloween nightmare.

Now, while I find this behavior to be rude and abusive, I also understand that it is a result of some sort of unfortunate medical condition, over which I have no control.

I also no longer care if you cease and desist, but I will not have any problem continuing to point out to the RR readers that there is something wrong with you.

Have a nice day tomorrow. It should be glorious, with highs in the mid-70s, and mostly open sunshine as we've been graced with the past couple of weeks.


"Just someone who believes that the popular vote of the total electorate should decide presidential elections."

mandersonation, perhaps you should move to a country that has such a system. The Electoral College will not be going away as long as the country remains intact.

""A dossier?"
Total recall, it's memorized."

I really am in your head and I can't get out. Amazing. And this from a fellow who has never met me but thinks he knows my "sordid" doings in Nevada County. You really do need help, Mike.

Michael Anderson

I am really sorry that I ever commented on this really rude and evil website. Todd, my business has never been a part of this discussion until you and Greg brought it up. I have a fiduciary responsibility to my employees and other stakeholders to not allow your libel and slander to affect my bottom line. Thus, I must regretfully exit.

I do feel that I have now done my duty at this site in identifying people in this county who are antithetical to forward progress, and we'll just have to leave it at that.

I bid my adieu. Farewell fond friends, you will not have MA to kick around anymore.

Michael Anderson

One last comment: Even though this website is truly rude and evil, at least when it comes to politics [I am sure I will still read and enjoy George's movie reviews, and tech analysis, etc.], it is still one of the top comedy websites on the tubes. Just had to get that in. Keep on keepin' on, you rascally comedians you.

Michael Anderson

One last comment: Even though this website is truly rude and evil, at least when it comes to politics, it is still one of the top comedy websites on the tubes. Just had to get that in. Keep on keepin' on, you rascally comedians you.


MA, please stop characterizing yourself as some odd species of Republican. As someone once said, your reasoning is so far off base that it doesn't even rise to the (rather low) level of being wrong. Say and do whaterver you like, but a Republican? L.


Mike, there's a great narrative to be told about the intersection of your politics, your threats, and your business.

Wow, more boundary crossings. Greg, as I noted before, you are the one who continues to try to stop me from commenting by bringing my personal business into the discussion.

Wow, this after your libelous threats of 10:04PM? You finally went over the bright line of a "libel per se" with that one. Ask that lawyer of yours to explain it to you.

The best thing about an Obamacare meltdown will be watching you, Mike, and we don't have to wait until 2016. The campaign of 2014 is the show. Republicans have a knack for pulling defeat from the jaws of victory (a great laugh line I had with my fellow parade goers as the jubilant Tea Party truck inched along the 2012 4th of July Parade in GV), but they will be helped along by the quaint historical fact that the President's party has always taken a hit at the 6 year mark.

And today we have the likes of Kirsten Powers, stating "The argument Obama won in 2012 about the role of government has already been squandered. The Obamacare rollout is a disaster for progressive politics"

Great stuff. You might want to get that Haldol script filled, Mike, it's going to be a bumpy 2014 for "Republicans" like yourself.


Damn, italics didn't work on my last post. This is a test.

Michael Anderson

Fuck you, "L." Petty coward with no name, drive by asshole. Epitomizing why this website is pestilence.

And Greg, did you get the last lick in? Didja?

If you respond again to me, I won't. When we meet, which we eventually will, it will be a joyous day for me. For you, not so much.


"The liberals and their press stenographers are quaking in their Birkenstock because Cruz is not stoppable in the quest for the truth."

Todd, I wear Birkies all the time and remain a non-progressive, non-Democrat liberal... and Cruz is one of the worst to come onto the stage in a long time. While no doubt exceedingly bright, he strikes me as an inauthentic opportunist with delusions of grandeur, with the same lack of across the aisle negotiation skills as Obama. Or even negotiations in his own party.

In 2016 I think the country will not be of a mind to elect a one term Senator to be President, especially with a spouse who is a Goldman Sachs executive.


"If you respond again to me, I won't. When we meet, which we eventually will, it will be a joyous day for me. For you, not so much."

Mike, we already have been face to face; you missed it. And thank you for yet another empty threat; yes, I know, you just can't help yourself.

George Rebane

Well, we are thankful that this informative and revealing exchange is over, and from the sound of it, will not be repeated. I hope that all will recall that the Internet is forever. As certain readers of progressive bent before him, Mr Anderson has also erected quite an edifice to memorialize his thought. This corpus is remarkable when we consider that he is a family man and runs a business in this community. Nevertheless, may it continue to bring him joy.

Barry Pruett

Today I read that Sebelius blamed Republicans for failure of Obamacare website. Priceless.


You guys be sure to hold that "running a business" sword over everyone's head. It means only retirees with long and dated resumes and true believers will post.

I am not commenting here anymore [except for this brief repost] for the same reason Michael is not commenting anymore; clearly there are no comments too beyond the pale, nothing beyond the protocols of polite human behavior, no innuendo, no threat too over the top, and no libel too despicable to be un-allowed here.

One reaps what one sows George. I really think you originally wanted to empower an intelligent discussion of topical issues. By not supporting higher standards you have enabled the lowest standards and diminished both the usefulness and the intent of your own efforts. You have created a cesspool, a place where the worst of human nature resides.

You have a great big Haldol laced chunk of excrement in your pool and until it is removed no one of merit will swim here.

Todd Juvinall

SteveF and MichaelA. One thing about you liberals posting here is you really stick together and no matter how nasty and mean you are to others of a opposite bent, you never criticize that behavior. That is why no one will miss you here.


Todd, it isn't an issue of "you liberals" sticking together, it's just Steve and Michael.


I am not commenting here anymore [except for this brief repost] for the same reason Michael is not commenting anymore; clearly there are no comments too beyond the pale, nothing beyond the protocols of polite human behavior, no innuendo, no threat too over the top, and no libel too despicable to be un-allowed here.

It's called free speech not polite speech.

God but you're a whiny tit!

Todd Juvinall

fish, you are back! Missed you posts.

Greg, I have yet to meet any liberals who are not like them. Therefore, my opinion is valid for me.

Ryan Mount

Wow, this clip is useful on every Nevada County blog:


"Brick killed a guy."


fish, you are back! Missed you posts.

Nahh...not really Todd. My last post was pretty much it. All that remains now is to see who is right.....Michael and his claims of a "radiant socialist future" or we reactionary throwbacks. I just found it ironic that the guy who I believe was the first to start flinging the Haldol references and was never one to shrink from using STFU in his comments would drop in "Miss Manners" like to scold us for our incivility.

As you are fond of saying.....Too Funny.

Todd Juvinall

That is why it is hard to debate them from a civility standpoint. I debated them in public forums over the years, also on radio and TV. They always go personal then when we fight back they cry like MA and BenE and take their skirts home.

Some things never change and their "progressive" attitudes are to me quite retro.

Account Deleted

Wow - I've been a bit busy lately and missed all the fun. Don't be too hard on Michael. He crows about how socialism is winning in this country (correct observation) yet the very folks that socialism is supposed to help are sinking deeper. The left is getting what it wanted and the sunshine and roses aren't there. Must be the evil conservatives mucking it all up somehow. And so it descends into hate filled rants and childish insults. As we become more socialist, the poor will become more violent, as all the promises crumble. History is filled with examples of govts that try to provide for the volk what the volk should be providing for themselves.


Must be the evil conservatives mucking it all up somehow.

Don't think that the lefty excuse factory isn't running three shifts, 7 days a week working on this right now!


fish, hello.

I do apologize, I picked up Keach, Anderson and Frisch at the old TheUnion blog in discussions (a polite word for it) over global warming; it is amazing how low the discourse is over that issue. No pressure.


There is a good chance that both Obamacare and global warming will be smoldering political wrecks this time next year. The Dem faithful (who see both as the key to moral authority to get what the leftmost have always wanted) will get ever more shrill, and the GOP will do their best to overreach and lose the mushy middle.

Paul Emery

Gregory writes: "GOP will do their best to overreach and lose the mushy middle."

Good look at the demise of the Pubsters. Even genetic Republicans like Todd are all gooey over the Cruze types which are exactly the disease the Dems need to take the middle and reinforce their structure. Support for congress is at historic lows with dog poop even surpassing them in popularity. "What a hoot"

"But it isn't all bad news for the legislative body responsible for the government shutdown. American voters still hold Congress in higher esteem than the Ebola virus (by 19 percent), twerking (by only 4 percent, inside the margin of error), Anthony Weiner (27 percent) and heroin (29 percent).


Paul Emery

More for the Toddster

"Republicans in Congress also got record-low marks in the poll. Just 17 percent of Americans approved of the job GOP lawmakers were doing, and 74 percent disapproved. That’s the lowest approval ever in Quinnipiac’s polling, and is down from August and July this summer.

Those surveyed also disapproved of Democrats in Congress, 60 percent to 32 percent, but that was the best approval rating Democrats have seen since May."

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/congress-approval-government-shutdown-2013-97617.html#ixzz2irG0wU2u

Todd Juvinall

Sp ley me get this straight Paulster. The "Congress" is both houses so I would guess you are predicting the people of America will boot the dems asses out too? My guess is you are only focused on the R's.

Todd Juvinall

Here is question 58. and the percentahes. I think the poll is a bit flawed.

58. Do you consider yourself part of the Tea Party movement or not?
Tot Rep Dem Ind Men Wom Wht Blk Hsp
Yes 12% 26% 1%
12% 15% 10% 14% 4% 8%
No 83 68 95 85 81 86 83 92 76
DK/NA 4 5 4 3 4 5 4 4 16

Wll the copy/paste doesn't work too well on a PDF. Anyway, the TP elected 63 new people to Congress and this poll totals seem odd to me.


Jeez I can't believe I'm back to this....and in just under a week.....even Ben held out longer than that!


I think what Paul is getting at is that his reading of the polls leads him to believe that the republicans are due for a slaughter in the 2014 midterms! I desperately hope he is right...so we can get something like this!


No toilet paper to be found anywhere...but all the feelings of "Supreme Happiness" you can swallow as dictated by the department (really....ministry....that's so foreign) that goes by the same name! Don't you dare be glum or you can expect a "door kicking" visit from your body armor wearing betters!


I didn't know that fish used toilet paper. You learn something new every day.

Todd Juvinall

Either I missed it or there was no breakout in the poll for location, party and gender. I'll look again.

Anyway, reading a lot of the questions I would suggest that both parties are held to blame by the respondents to the poll. I don't see much of a problem for the R's at all. The poll guy, Swartz, tries to compare the R's with Obam,a in many of the questions and that is a foolish journey. Obama is not running, and if there is any indicator one way or the other, the people will not listen to Obama as they did not listen in 2010 and 2012 when he stumped for the D's and they were defeated in the House and lost Senate seats.

Todd Juvinall

fish, I have a friend who is from Russia. She is 56 and grew up under the commies. She is an American citizen. I took her to her swearing in in Sac ten or so years ago. She told me they had the same problem with the lack of TP and when they got some the sandpapered their arse with it. Sort of a Sheryl Crow, one tissue country if that!


I didn't know that fish used toilet paper.

In prosperous countries we are generally wrapped in newsprint!

And RL really....? I post something about the establishment of a "Ministry of Supreme Happiness" and you focus solely on the toilet paper angle.....interesting.


Come on Fish,, do you need to Wiki " sense of humor" ? I say you walked right into that one. Better check the back of your shirt while your at it. RL may have
slipped a note through the screen when your back was turned.

BTW Doc,, Nice bit it the local fish wrap.


fish, I have a friend who is from Russia. She is 56 and grew up under the commies. She is an American citizen. I took her to her swearing in in Sac ten or so years ago. She told me they had the same problem with the lack of TP and when they got some the sandpapered their arse with it. Sort of a Sheryl Crow, one tissue country if that!

Not familiar with the Sheryl Crow angle.....

The whole socialist situation reminds me of the Russian Hell/American Hell joke . Two friends, one Russian, one American are killed on the same day. Not being the most upstanding individuals they both wind up in line for eternal torment and when they meet Old Scratch each are given a choice...Russian Hell or American Hell. Both men regardless of their misdeeds are patriots so the Russian guy chooses Russian hell and the American chooses American hell. They bump into each other a few weeks later and compare notes. "So, how's American hell"? the American is asked. "Well I certainly don't enjoy it much", says the American. "Every morning we get up and for breakfast we have to eat a garden shovel full of shit.....but after that the rest of the day isn't too bad......How about Russian hell"? "It's very similar", says the Russian..... "except we have to eat two shovels full for breakfast"! "Wow, that's twice as bad as we've got it in American hell", says the American who is secretly thrilled that his former compatriot has it worse than he does. "Yes, but remember" says the Russian...."it's Russian hell so they are almost always out of shit or somebody forgets to bring the shovels"!

(Thanks....I'm here all week....don't forget to tip your waitresses!)


Come on Fish,, do you need to Wiki " sense of humor" ?

I probably do Walt!

Todd Juvinall

fish, Sheryl Crow got on a eco trip and was chastising the country about the use of toilet paper and how it was not a good thing in the eco system. She said one tissue square was enough to wipe. She became the butt of many jokes and those that tried her advice got dirty hands. Just like JP on the nasty blog.

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