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26 November 2013

Comments

Ben Emery

All those who believe they follow the teachings of Jesus, especially Mickey who loves when lefties talk religion.

Pope Francis
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html#No_to_the_new_idolatry_of_money

No to an economy of exclusion

"53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us."

fish

Again Ben...nothing I've ever seen you post leads me to think that you have any workable ideas to remedy any of this or are really even cognizant of the issues involved! Much like your reply a while back about blacks and discrimination.....a trillion plus in expenditures, multiple redundant legislative programs, and acres worth of pages of printed regulations we're dismissed by you as, "a couple pages of laws....."!

You're a regular Veruca Salt, Ben! You stamp your little feet and whine......"I want everything all better....and I want it all better NOW!"

Did you have any plans on answering yesterdays question about what you thought you could do to correct some of what you perceive as this countries problems if you found yourself elected to congress.....other than you're earlier gleeful..."everybody in, nobody out" dumping of the citizenry onto the Medicare roles?

George Rebane

BenE 1223pm - thank you for extracting that piece of pontifical teaching (encyclical?). It shines a bright light on why our Founders sought to separate church and state. It also confirms the reports that Pope Francis is a collectivist of the first order. (The Vatican has a vast, growing, and centuries old larder of magnificent treasures worth many billions. I wonder how he feels about setting the example by liquidating it and distributing the proceeds among the world's poor, since it is used for nothing else currently.)

BTW, Christians understand 'thou shalt not kill' to mean 'thou shalt not murder' (i.e. take life unlawfully). Nowhere does the church teach that civilization should commit suicide by unconditionally bending to the world's low lifes.

fish

It also confirms the reports that Pope Francis is a collectivist of the first order.

A trait that seems to run rather deeply in todays Jesuit.

fish

You know Ben perhaps Catholicism is your calling.....have you considered the priesthood? Historically the Catholic Church has done far more to alleviate poverty than any government.....and they're more cost effective too!

Gregory

Ben, Ben, Ben...

"The right wing will celebrate striking a religious school because it is a school of Islam."

What happened to "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"... too "old school"?

I'd give Francis a bit of a break on his latest; Latin American kleptocracies almost do match the "trickle down" caricature.

Bill Tozer

Brother Ben, so nice to have you back. Dr. Rebane is correct. Thou shalt no kill means thou shall not commit murder. There are about 4 Hebrew meaning for the word kill, maybe 5-6 if you include animals. The thou shall not kill is the one used for willfully taking a man's life. In our society, we call that predominated first degree murder. Does not mean soldiering or the like. Learned that at a tiny Jesuit University in Spokane, Washington and I ain't even Catholic. They have a pretty good basketball team I hear.

Ben, you would be a great Jesuit Priest. They dedicate their lives to helping the poor. Every Jesuit I ever met had a doctorate to boot, so you get to help the poor AND receive 6 years of formal education.. Join the Jesuits and get free room and board and free education. Of course, Gonzaga was only $1,800/year when I attended, and had 2.6 Catholic girls for every young male, but I digress again. Duh.

While we (I) am totally off topic, Ben please point out the political bent to Jesus's teaching. What? Can only think of give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's? What did Jesus or John the Baptist or the so called Apostles or Matthrew thru Revelations say about politics? Think John the Baptist told the Roman soldiers don't rip off the poor. What about the tax collectors? What about the Roman Government or Pilate. Did he lecture them on anything political? Nay, he said he is for the Kingdom of God, another kingdom not of this world. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God. Seek first. Heaven and Earth shall pass away but.....

I am sorry I went off dear readers. But it has always irked me when people use the Bible to protest this political thing or that or lay obstrustions of the railroad tracks coming from an arms manufacturer or charge any government with not taking it upon itself to do their work of altruism. At least this is not what this generous country is about. Want to be a Good Samaritan? Go do it yourself for fun and for free. Want to help your neighbor? Do it out of love, not coercion. Give it all away and stop loving this world and follow him if that is what your core beliefs and faith teaches you. Reject the things of this world, Ben. Get off your moral high horse and walk humbly (if that is your Christianity). Now, what is political about them apples?

Again, I apologize to all readers.

JeffPelline

Bill,
Focus, man. Focus. You must have driven your parents and teachers nuts. LOL. Have a great Thanksgiving!

stevenfrisch

Yeah, face it, Jesus was a communist.

Bill Tozer

Mr. Pelline. I did indeed drive my teachers, parents, co-workers, friends and foe alike up the wall as well as the butcher, baker, and the candlestick maker. Some are still clinging to the ceiling, those poor souls. What is something I said? Another unsolved mystery. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family as well.

Dr. Rebane, I am surprised you missed this gem for your topic of Rebane's Ruminations.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/26/potent_greenhouse_gas_emissions_much_higher_than_thought/

In totally related news, Al Gore officially announced he is going vegan:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/11/25/al-gore-goes-vegan-with-little-fanfare/?wprss=rss_election-2012&clsrd

fish

Yeah, face it, Jesus was a communist.

Wow....! I mean I expect PC nonsense from the pale and torpid mountain Morlock...but shit Steve....that simply won't look good the next time the SBC has to petition the state or feds for funds.

George Rebane

BillT 1011pm - My apologies Mr Tozer. Do you also interpret that article to portend EPA's proscription of hamburgers, wieners, and steaks across the land under the auspices of the Clean Air Act?

Ben Emery

Since George ignored the 50th anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy I thought I would post an article about the administration and its push back against the industrial military complex. One can only speculate why George would ignore one of the biggest events in the US 20th Century.

"For three years, that refusal to send combat troops earned him the antipathy of both liberals and conservatives who rebuked him for "throwing in the towel" in the Cold War. His critics included not just the traditionally bellicose Joint Chiefs and the CIA, but also trusted advisers and friends, including Gen. Maxwell Taylor; Defense Secretary Robert McNamara; McNamara's deputy, Roswell Gilpatric; and Secretary of State Rusk. JFK's ambassador to South Vietnam, Frederick Nolting Jr., reported a "virtually unanimous desire for the introduction of the U.S. forces into Vietnam" by the Vietnamese "in various walks of life." When Vice President Lyndon Johnson visited Vietnam in May 1961, he returned adamant that victory required U.S. combat troops. Virtually every one of JFK's senior staff concurred. Yet JFK resisted. Saigon, he said, would have to fight its own war."


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/john-f-kennedys-vision-of-peace-20131120page=2#ixzz2ltz43f1d

Bonnie M

And it goes on and on....One thing I've noticed over the years is that a lot of people who use the Bible don't seem to know much about what's in it. Like a minister once told me, they pretend in order to get your trust....for who knows what. Myself, I like to go to the source in order to get to the bottom of things. And then...pay attention. Recently I've been reading a national bestseller, "They Fired The First Shot 2012." It appears to be Catholic, and here again remember they inspired the Constitution's "no state church" for what they and the kings did to people in Europe. Anyway, the book pretty much tells what's been going on in our political world. The theme...Know yourself, know your enemy, and you'll have a better idea of how to deal with whatever challenge becomes apparent.

Todd Juvinall

BenE, I am shocked that you did not write a column on the JFK Assisi nation Anniversary. That is quite a lousy thing to dodge. I did a post on my blog as did many others. You are too much. Also, why do you think the Rooskies removed their nukes from CUBA BenE? Could it be because our"military-industrial" superiority scared the shit out of them? You are very naive.

Ben Emery

Todd,
Ignorant Is Bliss describes your opinions best on so many issues.

I will let Robert Kennedy Jr. rebut your comment.

"As JFK's relationship with his military-intelligence apparatus deteriorated, a remarkable relationship with Khrushchev began. Both were battle-hardened war veterans seeking a path to rapprochement and disarmament, encircled by militarists clamoring for war. In Kennedy's case, both the Pentagon and the CIA believed war with the Soviets was inevitable and therefore desirable in the short term while we still had the nuclear advantage. In the autumn of 1961, as retired Gen. Lucius Clay, who had taken a civilian post in Berlin, launched a series of unauthorized provocations against the Soviets, Khrushchev began an extraordinary secret correspondence with JFK. With the Berlin crisis moving toward nuclear Armageddon, Khrushchev turned to KGB agent Georgi Bolshakov, a top Soviet spy in Washington, to communicate directly with JFK. Bolshakov, to the horror of the U.S. State Department, was a friend of my parents and a frequent guest at our home. Bolshakov smuggled a letter, the first of 21 declassified in 1993, to JFK's press secretary, Pierre Salinger, in a folded newspaper. In it, Khrushchev expressed regret about Vienna and embraced JFK's proposal for a path to peace and disarmament.

On October 27th, Gen. Clay made an unauthorized armed threat to knock down the Berlin Wall using tanks equipped with dozer plows, seeking to provoke the Soviets into some action that would justify a nuclear first strike. The Kremlin responded with its own tanks, which met Clay's forces at the border crossing known as Checkpoint Charlie. A 16-hour face-off ensued. Through my father, Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, and Bolshakov, JFK promised that if Khrushchev withdrew his tanks within 24 hours, the U.S. would pull back 20 minutes later. Khrushchev took the risk, and JFK kept his word. Two weeks later, with tensions still running, Khrushchev sent a second letter to JFK: "I have no ground to retreat further, there is a precipice behind [me]." Kennedy realized that Khrushchev, too, was surrounded by a powerful military and intelligence complex intent on going to war. After the confrontation, Gen. Clay railed against JFK's unwillingness to "face the risk of nuclear war" against the Soviets.

One year later, on October 16th, 1962, Kennedy saw aerial photographs proving that the Soviets had installed nuclear missiles in Cuba capable of reaching much of the eastern U.S. seaboard. The next 13 days were the most perilous in mankind's history. From the outset, the Pentagon, the CIA and many of JFK's advisers urged airstrikes and a U.S. invasion of the island that, as a Soviet military commander later revealed, would have triggered a nuclear war with the Soviets. JFK opted for a blockade, which Soviet ships respected. By October 26th, the standoff was de-escalating. Then, on October 27th, the crisis reignited when Soviet forces shot down a U.S. reconnaissance plane, killing its pilot, Maj. Rudolf Anderson. Almost immediately, the brass demanded overwhelming retaliation to destroy the Soviet missile sites. Meanwhile, Castro pushed the Kremlin military machine toward a devastating first strike. In a secret meeting with Ambassador Anatoly Dobrynin, my father told him, "If the situation continues much longer, the president is not sure that the military will not overthrow him and seize power." U.S. marshals appeared at our house to take us to government bunkers in western Virginia. My brother Joe and I were anxious to go, if only to see the setup. But my father, who'd spent the previous six nights at the White House, called to say that we needed to be "good soldiers" and show up for school in Washington. To disappear, he told us, would cause public panic. That night, many people in our government went to sleep wondering if they would wake up dead.

On Monday, October 29th, the world moved back from the brink. An artfully drafted letter my father wrote with Ted Sorensen pledging that the U.S. would not invade Cuba – plus JFK's secret agreement with Khrushchev to withdraw obsolete Jupiter missiles from Turkey – persuaded the Kremlin to back down."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/john-f-kennedys-vision-of-peace-20131120


stevenfrisch

Posted by: Bonnie M | 27 November 2013 at 06:30 PM

One thing I've noticed over the years is that ideologues not only can't recognize irony, they can't help but let their bigotry show, either.

First, it was not me, it was Jesus who said, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." [Mark 10:21]

Second, referring to Catholics as "they inspired the Constitution's "no state church" for what they and the kings did to people in Europe" seems to demonstrate a shocking ignorance of the fact that the Establishment Clause, as Jefferson borrowed it from Locke for the Virginia Declaration of Rights whence it matriculated to our Federal Constitution, was just as much to control the excesses of Protestantism's record of discrimination, particularly against the splinter Baptists, which was much closer to the history of the founders, as it was Catholicism's perceived threat, vanquished more than 100 years earlier in the Glorious Revolution.

But what do I know, not only can I quote Jesus and Locke, I am 'the enemy". How deliciously Christian of you Bonnie.

Bill Tozer

Did you hear the joke about a sick patient, a doctor, a surgeon and a hospital administrator walk into the exchanges. The doc says.....

http://washingtonexaminer.com/survey-finds-doctors-rebelling-against-obamacare-famous-hospitals-declining-to-join/article/2539830?utm_campaign=Fox%20News&utm_source=foxnews.com&utm_medium=feed

The link mentions the Sierra Nevada foothills! We are famously famous. Gobble gobble.

fish

One thing I've noticed over the years is that ideologues not only can't recognize irony, they can't help but let their bigotry show, either.

Wow....so perceptive....so deep....so Steve!

Paul Emery

Bonnie M writes:

"One thing I've noticed over the years is that ideologues not only can't recognize irony, they can't help but let their bigotry show, either. '

Of course you know that our host is a self described ideologue so your spout above must include George R.

Paul Emery

George R writes:

I am an ideologue.......

http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/02/kvmr-commentary-5feb2010.html#more

stevenfrisch

That was posted by me Paul; and Fish failed to counter either its historic or epistemological accuracy, choosing the adolescent retort of mockery instead.

I love how people who purport to know the intent or motivations of the sainted Founders (or Jesus for that matter) so often get their history (and theology) so consistently wrong.

Gregory

"But what do I know, not only can I quote Jesus and Locke, I am 'the enemy". -Frisch

Thanks to Steve Frisch, atheist and resident left-majoritarian, for illustrating the difference between quoting and understanding. And thanks to Fish for an adolescent retort that was so spot on.

George Rebane

PaulE 1019pm - I believe BonnieM is using 'ideologue' in its common pejorative sense, and not the sense that it is more accurately known and which I have defined multiple times on RR.

An ideologue is a person with a well-formed and communicative ideology, which is a structured belief system with tenets that primarily define the ideologues socio-political philosophy and beliefs.

Gregory

"It is, however, curious, that whilst the English Socialists are generally opposed to Christianity, and have to suffer all the religious prejudices of a really Christian people, the French Communists, being a part of a nation celebrated for its infidelity, are themselves Christians. One of their favourite axioms is, that Christianity is Communism, “le Christianisme c'est le Communisme”. This they try to prove by the bible, the state of community in which the first Christians are said to have lived, etc. But all this shows only, that these good people are not the best Christians, although they style themselves so; because if they were, they would know the bible better, and find that, if some few passages of the bible may be favourable to Communism, the general spirit of its doctrines is, nevertheless, totally opposed to it, as well as to every rational measure." -Freddy Engels, The New Moral World 1843

Bill Tozer

If you want to hide something from most Christians, just put it in The Bible. Of course if I hear someone says they know everything about the Bible and all its true meanings, I run the other way. My favorite passages (from memory) is "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" and "you search the scriptures but you don't come to me for Life" or something to that effect.

It goes without saying that I have spent my life rivaling Paul as the chief sinner among us. My flaws and shortcomings and sins are more than any of you can imagine so save your breath.

With all that said, Happy Thanksgiving. I love Thanksgiving when I am served cranberries in the shape of a can. Magic. How does my sister make it that way? I love they way she continues the family tradition.

Todd Juvinall

The Bible says GOD gave us all free will. That is the underlying tenet. How the commies can morph that into "everyone" is the same confuses me.

stevenfrisch

Proving once again that irony is misplaced on those who cannot give thanks for a full range of cultural references, historic context or emotional intelligence!

Happy Thanksgiving.

Bill Tozer

Externalizing the internal stuffing again?

stevenfrisch

Like I said not one is more an expert about being full of shit than those who frequent Chez George! Kudos to you Bill for being the Chief Confuser of macroeconomics.

Notwithstanding the exhortations in Deuteronomy I am amazed at how little people do with the free will. I give thanks for that too!

fish

That was posted by me Paul; and Fish failed to counter either its historic or epistemological accuracy, choosing the adolescent retort of mockery instead.


Yes! I did fail to counter its historical and/or epistemological accuracy and opted for adolescent mockery instead.......and that is absolutely fabulous!

Do you knou why?!

I have being accused of being "a child" by Ben Emery, Rebanes Ruminations "Student Herder" (sorry...a Dan Piraro "Bizzaro" cartoon reference......I scoured the internet for the image) and concern troll in residence for failing to get all "wet eyed" about the notion that people, who apparently looked kinda like me were mean to the Arawak Indians 500 years ago. NowI have been accused of being an adolescent by Rebanes Ruminations ever so superior concern troll Steven Frisch.......and do you what that means????

WELL DO YOU?!?!?!?!

MAKIN PROGRESS!

Woo woo woo woo!!!!!!


(victory lap ensues)

Bill Tozer

Why thank you for the kudos Mr. stevenfrisch!! That was most kind of you concerning the source. Not surprised you brought up us inbreds and half breeds not celebrating cultural references. Or, did you mean we are all palefaces and don't celebrate our diversity? Or like Mr. Fedor projecting that we are going to bring up lesbian face sitting porn. No, sodomites were only brought up by Mr. Fedor.

Projections and stereotypes. Stereotypes and projections. Straw men fall and straw men rise.

Oh, where are the jobs? Heard Google is making little hand held communication gadgets back home in the good ole USA. With all them high tech robots, Apple is going to make some of those Chinese gadgets here at home as well. Won't create many jobs, but its good to be an exporter. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones as well on this most sacred day of internal gratitude for the privilege of living in this land of opportunity and abundance. My your Horn of Plenty overflow this coming year.

Gregory

"irony is misplaced on those who cannot give thanks for a full range of cultural references, historic context or emotional intelligence" -Frisch

Yes, it is. Thanks for the chuckle.

fish

Mr. Fedor projecting that we are going to bring up lesbian face sitting porn.

I'd like to nominate this for the "Rebanes Ruminations Comment Response of the Year"!

Well done Bill! I'll be pulling for you cowboy!

Todd Juvinall

Funny how a liberal atheist can tell Christians what they need to understand. Amazing!

fish

I have being accused of being "a child" by Ben EmeryI have being accused of being "a child" by Ben Emery

I have been accused of being "a child" by Ben Emery....

"being"....crap....I'm in no way thankful for word selection errors.... not on Thanksgiving!

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